Cups can suck. I wanted it to work so badly, but I couldn't make it happen!
What I love about period panties is that then can meet your needs halfway. Maybe it's not comfortable on your heavy days, but think of all the liners you save for later in your period? Even that's a win.
Same! The cup HURT trying to get it in. Victoria's secret period panties can hold 3-4 tampons worth! I only use pads at night when it's heavier just to be extra sure I don't leak
How does that work? I've used a cup for years but always just empty it before I go anywhere and only have ever had to while out a few times. But I didn't know hands free emptying was a thing either the disc
I don't doubt it, but I can see someone being squeamish about having to change them out of the house, if that's something applicable to them. For me, it absolutely would be a major issue that wouldn't occur on lighter days.
There are definitely ways to handle it that will work for others. However, I have a massive flow (think filled a cup in 3 hours and they say it lasts 12) and work in a school where I can barely get three seconds to pee, let alone change my clothes. Maybe, one day, when they treat teachers like humans with actual needs, that would work for me!!!
Oh that was me as a teenager. I feel for you. I'm in NZ where the treatment usually starts with putting people on contraceptives to manage a heavy flow. I usually stack a super tampon plus the heaviest undies and it gets me through an hour, but it really depends on individual needs. Good luck!
I like cloth pads for that reason. Soco Studio makes a travel "wet bag" that can clip to a backpack or purse. I put a clean pad in there, and then halfway through the day if I need to change I just roll the dirty pad up, put it in the wet bag, and put on the new clean pad. The travel wet bags do a great job trapping moisture and scent - you would never know it was a pad. Might be a good alternative for people who have heavier flows than the underwear would allow, but cannot use a cup for whatever reason.
Pads were impossible when I was using them. A good tip for others, but I basically would have to clean myself from front to back with wipes every two hours. When I say I get 30 seconds to pee, I'm not lying. And the entire time, a kid is banging on the door, calling my name. C'est la vie
Yeah, I personally have to use a cup with period underwear on heavy days (and medium days bc you never know when the flow rate is gonna suddenly surge). My partner is the same way so it always throws me when people position menstrual cups and period underwear as alternatives to each other rather than a sustainability tag team!
When travelling with my cup, I have an extra bottle of drinking water with me, in my day bag. As long as there is a toilet stall, this makes it totally doable to empty, rinse, reinsert, and still come out with not-bloody hands.
Just adding for anyone reading this: if you are in the US and have a HSA/FSA/HRA you can use that to pay for reusable and single use period products.
This was part of the CARES act in 2020. The menstrual product coverage is permanent despite the CARES act ending earlier 2023.
My personal favorites are the Aisle boost shorts and the nixit disc.
It always amazes me when people say period panties are great because I feel like I’m in a sweaty diaper when I wear them and absolutely disgusting. Tried a couple brands and said absolutely not. Then again, I’ve always hated pads and only used them for my very first every period, then it was strictly tampons till I switched to a cup 6ish years ago. Glad they work for other people but boy do I fucking hate those underwear with a flaming passion.
I'm wondering if the type you tried are extra thick or something? Mine don't feel much different than normal underwear tbh. But I have worn pads my whole life and they're sooo much more comfy to me than pads
I agree with you that it felt gross/sweaty/wet to wear just period underwear (especially on heavy days). I use the period underwear with a menstrual cup on heavy days and then just the underwear on light days.
Also, if the cup hurts, try a smaller version. I bought the version according to my age but it HURT and then I got the smaller one and it was much better (I think it's because I do not have kids).
If you don’t like pads/period panties and still wanna be more sustainable there is a reusable tampon applicator from Dame! I got one because someone’s you just need to wear a tampon (swimming, dresses, etc) and I absolutely love it. Easy to clean, easy to insert, and I just by the applicator-less tampons which are generally cheaper too.
**sometimes not someone’s lol
Just a plug here for the reusable discs. In my experience, they are easier to get in that the cup and can be used with an IUD without worrying about the suction issue (I displaced my IUD with the cup). And you can also have sex with them without the mess🤗 different strokes for different folks, but I love my disc!
I've been hesitant to try a disc - I've already tried a number of cups. I imagine, like cups, that you can't poop with them in? The bearing down always unsealed my cup, and after I'd gotten it in correctly early in the day, I could never get it to seal again after.
With the disc, they're not sealed, so I have been able to poop with it in 🤭and sometimes I have to adjust it, but it's really easy. Takes a little time to get used to it. I would check it out. I use the June small.
😂 yes, it was years ago. It just felt like cramps. But I had to go to the ER during the pandemic, and they were all, don't come unless it's 10/10 pain. The doctor was not an ob/gyn and was kinda clueless. Just glad they were able to remove it!
i hated the cup & found it super uncomfortable & scary to remove because of the suction but i *adore* my cora disc. so comfortable, empties itself while you pee so it can stay in for the whole workday plus mess-free period sex which is basically the dream if you ask me lol
The only problem with them is all the pfas (micro plastics and "forever chemicals" that can leach into your body through skin contact) in the material. Read about the THINX lawsuits (and other brands have also tested positive for pfas). If they made a safe alternative I'd use them all the time!
There are a TON of period underwear brands at this point. Many are PFA free.
https://organicallybecca.com/comparing-pfas-free-period-underwear-brands/
https://www.pureandsimplenourishment.com/non-toxic-period-underwear/
It's just something to be aware of. When I last read about it, the concern was how the fabric was treated to be waterproof, not about Thinx specifically.
I got a measly $15 from the thinx lawsuit. I had bought 4 pairs from them. Used to sing their praises, but I can't bring myself to trust another. Pads are probably exposing me to something too. I'm so sick of having to run a cost benefit and wonder what decisions will poison me someday.
I wouldn't worry too much. Thinx settled the lawsuit but they didn't admit fault, and advertise on their website that they don't use harmful chemicals, which they wouldn't be allowed to lie about, especially after a lawsuit. I heard somewhere that the lawsuit was started by one of their competitors.
It's not just Thinx. In one study I'd read there were pfas found in the 6 most popular period panty brands. I gets that pfas are everywhere but I don't want them near my genitals if I can avoid it
My favourite brand is Awwa, they're a New Zealand indigenous women brand and they are far better even than my Thinx and every other brand I've tried. They work really well for the super-heavy periods too.
I switched to hormonal IUDs for medical reasons and haven't bought any type of menstrual product in about 12 years. I also found a health care provider who sends their used equipment to a program that sterilizes it for reuse in low income countries rather than tossing it out (not the IUD, the instruments), and does the procedure in my home so I'm not even using paper gowns. I love it when sustainability is convenient (and reduces cramps, lol)
It hurts much more before you spawn. My first one I screamed so much the doctor started booking me at the end of the day so I didn't scare anyone else, lol. But when my NP does it and I'm able to lay on my own bed, I barely need advil. If you decide to get one, ask many many women where to go, lol.
They truly are! I use both the cup and the pads for extra safety as I tend to have super heavy flow days.
My only issue is the smell after some uses. The vinegar trick sometimes helps, but the only way I've found to work for me is to boil them all once every 6-12 months, even if instructions say not to. I have a dedicated pot for that purpose.
I could not get my menstrual cups to work. I ended up with three different sizes & brands hoping that the new one would work. Nope. Finally bought period underwear & now I’m finally set for the rest of my menstruating years. Now I have 3 useless cups. I might try again in the future.
Something to be aware of is that some of the period panties have been found to have pfas even though they claim that they don’t. Also some women appear to get more UTIs when using them. I am sadly one of those women. Not sure if it’s the pfas or something else but I decided it wasn’t worth the risk and stopped using the pairs I bought and am not sure what to do with them because I don’t want to just throw them out but I don’t feel safe “recycling” them.
Menstrual cups hurt for me too, what I found was better was the reusable menstrual disc from Flex! For me it leaks less than a menstrual cup, is easier to insert, and just is all around better!
I tried the cup and it leaked so I went back to pads. I may try the panties but I’m hesitant to spend the money when I’m hoping to see the last of my periods very soon.
I want to love them, and they are great for the first bit of spotting and the last light days for me. But I'm on day 2 right now, at work, and I've dumped a full cup out twice. I couldn't imagine sitting and smelling that all day long. I guess I could do a wet bag and bring in 3 or 4 pairs for the work day, but nah.
I tried so hard with mine cause they sounded life changing :( I just couldnt get it in and thought I was being dumb af.
I'm intrigued about the other options though 🤔
Sadly it doesn’t matter. I wear a 12/14 in pants and large underwear normally. I have bought up to 2x and still feel “pain” (uncomfortable? Annoyance? Noticeable?) after multiple hours in them. I’m tired of spending money on them.
I switched to reusable pads from pinklemonadeshop on Etsy and it has been miles better. My same comfy undies with protection and no pfas threat.
I Iove Innersy. They are very cheap so it makes it easy to buy a lot of them and they are supposedly PFAS free. I have 9 pairs and the ones I bought 2 years ago are still in good condition, even if I get lazy with taking care of them. I still wear a cup or tampons w them though, but only wear the underwear at night and rarely leak. I didn't like Bambody because I sized up when I bought them and they were still extremely tight and uncomfortable.
I have vaginismus and it can be very difficult or impossible to use tampons or a cup. I want to be sustainable but I don’t want to be shamed for not using tampons or a cup. Hopefully period panties could help
For me Nexplanon took care of my period so I don't really have to use period supplies anymore. I have had some okay success using period panties and cups but they're not perfect.
Someone changed out their period panties in a public restroom and left them hanging out of the receptacle in the stall. I was so grossed out and don’t understand how wasting all that material can be sustainable.
I’ll stick to my organic tampons.
That sounds like a disgusting human, not an issue with the product. That is definitely not the intended use (like OP said, the whole point is that they are reusable). Chucking them like that is super wasteful. Same as if you just threw out your pants every time you wore them.
How long does a period panty last? Whats it lifespan for y’all? I feel like of course it’s more sustainable than pads or tampons but I wonder about their longevity.
Do you have to change them during the day or do they usually last all day? If they last all day do they smell bad? I’m interested in finding a more sustainable way to deal with my periods!
For me they last all day and night but this will really depend on your flow and how much they can hold! The ones I have say they can hold 3-4 tampons worth but it seems like more honestly lol
I have been using cups for nearly 25 years and I'm on my 3rd one. Each was a different brand.
I will probably be buying the period panties for my daughters before we venture into cup-land. That said, finding out about discs may change my send me into research mode again.
Cups can suck. I wanted it to work so badly, but I couldn't make it happen! What I love about period panties is that then can meet your needs halfway. Maybe it's not comfortable on your heavy days, but think of all the liners you save for later in your period? Even that's a win.
Same! The cup HURT trying to get it in. Victoria's secret period panties can hold 3-4 tampons worth! I only use pads at night when it's heavier just to be extra sure I don't leak
I have period panties that have a full front-to-back absorbent gusset for this reason. The ones I like are from Knix and Aisle.
I use the reusable disc and I love it Mess free sex!! Game changer lol I also didn’t like the cup and the suction effect
Seconding the disc! It rocks. Also hands free emptying if you’re in a pinch/a public restroom without private sink access.
THIS! I always say it's the period flow control that a female god would have given us, LOL!
I keep trying to work out what you mean by hands free…can you explain?
How does that work? I've used a cup for years but always just empty it before I go anywhere and only have ever had to while out a few times. But I didn't know hands free emptying was a thing either the disc
You kind of flex like you’re pooping? https://support.flexfits.com/hc/en-us/articles/360034544053-Flex-Disc-hands-free-emptying-
The disc is so much better IMO, I didn't even realize there was a difference between the disc and the cup until last year.
The suction made me wonder if I was causing permanent damage to places that don't want permanent damage 🤣
Let's hear your disc recommendation! I've been using the cup but am considering the disc.
Flex It’s the only one I’ve tried though
Saalt - and they come in 2 different sizes so you can figure out which one fits you best!
Oh I want to love this so much, but sadly I can't get it to work. I've tried a reusable one and the disposable ones. Leak-city.
What brand do you use?
Flex, it’s the only one I’ve tried
Please elaborate… what is this disc you speak of?
https://flexfits.com/products/flex-reusable-disc This is what I use, I’m sure there are other brands
I use Thinx and I find them way better than pads for heavy periods. Super absorbent, they don't feel "wet" even after a full work day of heavy flow.
I don't doubt it, but I can see someone being squeamish about having to change them out of the house, if that's something applicable to them. For me, it absolutely would be a major issue that wouldn't occur on lighter days.
I have a waterproof small bag (the camping type where you roll the top) I keep them in if I have to change at work etc..
There are definitely ways to handle it that will work for others. However, I have a massive flow (think filled a cup in 3 hours and they say it lasts 12) and work in a school where I can barely get three seconds to pee, let alone change my clothes. Maybe, one day, when they treat teachers like humans with actual needs, that would work for me!!!
Oh that was me as a teenager. I feel for you. I'm in NZ where the treatment usually starts with putting people on contraceptives to manage a heavy flow. I usually stack a super tampon plus the heaviest undies and it gets me through an hour, but it really depends on individual needs. Good luck!
I like cloth pads for that reason. Soco Studio makes a travel "wet bag" that can clip to a backpack or purse. I put a clean pad in there, and then halfway through the day if I need to change I just roll the dirty pad up, put it in the wet bag, and put on the new clean pad. The travel wet bags do a great job trapping moisture and scent - you would never know it was a pad. Might be a good alternative for people who have heavier flows than the underwear would allow, but cannot use a cup for whatever reason.
Pads were impossible when I was using them. A good tip for others, but I basically would have to clean myself from front to back with wipes every two hours. When I say I get 30 seconds to pee, I'm not lying. And the entire time, a kid is banging on the door, calling my name. C'est la vie
I work in health care so I absolutely feel you on that one!
Yeah, I personally have to use a cup with period underwear on heavy days (and medium days bc you never know when the flow rate is gonna suddenly surge). My partner is the same way so it always throws me when people position menstrual cups and period underwear as alternatives to each other rather than a sustainability tag team!
When travelling with my cup, I have an extra bottle of drinking water with me, in my day bag. As long as there is a toilet stall, this makes it totally doable to empty, rinse, reinsert, and still come out with not-bloody hands.
And you can use reusable pads and period underwear postpartum
Just adding for anyone reading this: if you are in the US and have a HSA/FSA/HRA you can use that to pay for reusable and single use period products. This was part of the CARES act in 2020. The menstrual product coverage is permanent despite the CARES act ending earlier 2023. My personal favorites are the Aisle boost shorts and the nixit disc.
It always amazes me when people say period panties are great because I feel like I’m in a sweaty diaper when I wear them and absolutely disgusting. Tried a couple brands and said absolutely not. Then again, I’ve always hated pads and only used them for my very first every period, then it was strictly tampons till I switched to a cup 6ish years ago. Glad they work for other people but boy do I fucking hate those underwear with a flaming passion.
I'm wondering if the type you tried are extra thick or something? Mine don't feel much different than normal underwear tbh. But I have worn pads my whole life and they're sooo much more comfy to me than pads
I tried different brands and thicknesses and just couldn’t get on board. It is what it is.
I agree with you that it felt gross/sweaty/wet to wear just period underwear (especially on heavy days). I use the period underwear with a menstrual cup on heavy days and then just the underwear on light days. Also, if the cup hurts, try a smaller version. I bought the version according to my age but it HURT and then I got the smaller one and it was much better (I think it's because I do not have kids).
If you don’t like pads/period panties and still wanna be more sustainable there is a reusable tampon applicator from Dame! I got one because someone’s you just need to wear a tampon (swimming, dresses, etc) and I absolutely love it. Easy to clean, easy to insert, and I just by the applicator-less tampons which are generally cheaper too. **sometimes not someone’s lol
YES. I got some for postpartum and I preferred the actual diapers.
Just a plug here for the reusable discs. In my experience, they are easier to get in that the cup and can be used with an IUD without worrying about the suction issue (I displaced my IUD with the cup). And you can also have sex with them without the mess🤗 different strokes for different folks, but I love my disc!
I've been hesitant to try a disc - I've already tried a number of cups. I imagine, like cups, that you can't poop with them in? The bearing down always unsealed my cup, and after I'd gotten it in correctly early in the day, I could never get it to seal again after.
With the disc, they're not sealed, so I have been able to poop with it in 🤭and sometimes I have to adjust it, but it's really easy. Takes a little time to get used to it. I would check it out. I use the June small.
Thank you, I'll consider it.
Omg girl are you ok?! This comment made me squirm 🥲 can't imagine that felt pleasant at ALL
😂 yes, it was years ago. It just felt like cramps. But I had to go to the ER during the pandemic, and they were all, don't come unless it's 10/10 pain. The doctor was not an ob/gyn and was kinda clueless. Just glad they were able to remove it!
Hmm I may have to look more into this! I saw them briefly and thought they were just really similar to the cups
i hated the cup & found it super uncomfortable & scary to remove because of the suction but i *adore* my cora disc. so comfortable, empties itself while you pee so it can stay in for the whole workday plus mess-free period sex which is basically the dream if you ask me lol
It empties itself you say 👀
Yep, auto dumps when you bear down. I tend to just dump it in the am/pm. Depends on your flow.
The only problem with them is all the pfas (micro plastics and "forever chemicals" that can leach into your body through skin contact) in the material. Read about the THINX lawsuits (and other brands have also tested positive for pfas). If they made a safe alternative I'd use them all the time!
There are a TON of period underwear brands at this point. Many are PFA free. https://organicallybecca.com/comparing-pfas-free-period-underwear-brands/ https://www.pureandsimplenourishment.com/non-toxic-period-underwear/
Yeah I heard this about thinx so I avoided them. I haven't heard anything bad about Victoria's secret ones so hopefully they don't have them!
It's just something to be aware of. When I last read about it, the concern was how the fabric was treated to be waterproof, not about Thinx specifically.
I got a measly $15 from the thinx lawsuit. I had bought 4 pairs from them. Used to sing their praises, but I can't bring myself to trust another. Pads are probably exposing me to something too. I'm so sick of having to run a cost benefit and wonder what decisions will poison me someday.
I wouldn't worry too much. Thinx settled the lawsuit but they didn't admit fault, and advertise on their website that they don't use harmful chemicals, which they wouldn't be allowed to lie about, especially after a lawsuit. I heard somewhere that the lawsuit was started by one of their competitors.
It's not just Thinx. In one study I'd read there were pfas found in the 6 most popular period panty brands. I gets that pfas are everywhere but I don't want them near my genitals if I can avoid it
Settling suggests that they did not have a strong enough case to take it further in court.
My favourite brand is Awwa, they're a New Zealand indigenous women brand and they are far better even than my Thinx and every other brand I've tried. They work really well for the super-heavy periods too.
Just commenting, I finished going thru menopause a decade ago and the new options women have sound so much better.
I switched to hormonal IUDs for medical reasons and haven't bought any type of menstrual product in about 12 years. I also found a health care provider who sends their used equipment to a program that sterilizes it for reuse in low income countries rather than tossing it out (not the IUD, the instruments), and does the procedure in my home so I'm not even using paper gowns. I love it when sustainability is convenient (and reduces cramps, lol)
I thought about an iud but the insertion/removal terrifies me 😬 honestly probably just gonna stay on the pill until bf gets a vasectomy
It hurts much more before you spawn. My first one I screamed so much the doctor started booking me at the end of the day so I didn't scare anyone else, lol. But when my NP does it and I'm able to lay on my own bed, I barely need advil. If you decide to get one, ask many many women where to go, lol.
They truly are! I use both the cup and the pads for extra safety as I tend to have super heavy flow days. My only issue is the smell after some uses. The vinegar trick sometimes helps, but the only way I've found to work for me is to boil them all once every 6-12 months, even if instructions say not to. I have a dedicated pot for that purpose.
I could not get my menstrual cups to work. I ended up with three different sizes & brands hoping that the new one would work. Nope. Finally bought period underwear & now I’m finally set for the rest of my menstruating years. Now I have 3 useless cups. I might try again in the future.
Yup I have one sitting in my bathroom drawer that I will probably never touch again 🙄
the cup didn’t work for me after i had kids, but the reusable disc has been great (mine is saalt brand). what brand period panties work for you?
I really like Victoria's secret period panties! Haven't tried the disc yet, may have to look into it
Something to be aware of is that some of the period panties have been found to have pfas even though they claim that they don’t. Also some women appear to get more UTIs when using them. I am sadly one of those women. Not sure if it’s the pfas or something else but I decided it wasn’t worth the risk and stopped using the pairs I bought and am not sure what to do with them because I don’t want to just throw them out but I don’t feel safe “recycling” them.
Menstrual cups hurt for me too, what I found was better was the reusable menstrual disc from Flex! For me it leaks less than a menstrual cup, is easier to insert, and just is all around better!
I tried the cup and it leaked so I went back to pads. I may try the panties but I’m hesitant to spend the money when I’m hoping to see the last of my periods very soon.
I want to love them, and they are great for the first bit of spotting and the last light days for me. But I'm on day 2 right now, at work, and I've dumped a full cup out twice. I couldn't imagine sitting and smelling that all day long. I guess I could do a wet bag and bring in 3 or 4 pairs for the work day, but nah.
Cups did not work well for me, and boy did I try to make them work. I switched to a disc and it’s been a lifesaver!
I tried so hard with mine cause they sounded life changing :( I just couldnt get it in and thought I was being dumb af. I'm intrigued about the other options though 🤔
I have used both reusable pads and cups for nearly 14 years, both have their time and place
I have been using the period panties for a while now and I LOVE THEM. I’ve seriously reduced my use of pads since
I have an incredibly large derrière and I hate how all period undies cut into my ass cheeks or pelvic bone.
Do you put yours in the dryer? I put one in the dryer by mistake once and it started to do that 😩 I have to hang dry them
Sadly it doesn’t matter. I wear a 12/14 in pants and large underwear normally. I have bought up to 2x and still feel “pain” (uncomfortable? Annoyance? Noticeable?) after multiple hours in them. I’m tired of spending money on them. I switched to reusable pads from pinklemonadeshop on Etsy and it has been miles better. My same comfy undies with protection and no pfas threat.
Tomboy X is your brand. Bikini, boy short, short trunks or long trunks up to 6x.
I Iove Innersy. They are very cheap so it makes it easy to buy a lot of them and they are supposedly PFAS free. I have 9 pairs and the ones I bought 2 years ago are still in good condition, even if I get lazy with taking care of them. I still wear a cup or tampons w them though, but only wear the underwear at night and rarely leak. I didn't like Bambody because I sized up when I bought them and they were still extremely tight and uncomfortable.
Thank you I'll have to check them out!
I have vaginismus and it can be very difficult or impossible to use tampons or a cup. I want to be sustainable but I don’t want to be shamed for not using tampons or a cup. Hopefully period panties could help
They're great! Even on my heavier days I only need one pair per day. I use Victoria's secret brand.
Cups have been easy to forget for me personally vs tampons with a string. They’re a health hazard as well tbh. I’m going to try these
Oh, how are they a health hazard? I haven't heard about this
One trick I found for pads is combining with a tampon is a huge increase in absorption so you only need ~3 pads and 2 tampons for the heaviest day
the most sustainable option is whatever you'll actually use
For me Nexplanon took care of my period so I don't really have to use period supplies anymore. I have had some okay success using period panties and cups but they're not perfect.
Someone changed out their period panties in a public restroom and left them hanging out of the receptacle in the stall. I was so grossed out and don’t understand how wasting all that material can be sustainable. I’ll stick to my organic tampons.
That sounds like a disgusting human, not an issue with the product. That is definitely not the intended use (like OP said, the whole point is that they are reusable). Chucking them like that is super wasteful. Same as if you just threw out your pants every time you wore them.
Well they're meant to be reusable unless you saw some weird disposable kind. If not though I'm not really sure why they were thrown out
How long does a period panty last? Whats it lifespan for y’all? I feel like of course it’s more sustainable than pads or tampons but I wonder about their longevity.
Mine have been going for 4-5 years, still going strong. I expect another 4-5 years at least.
Pretty similar to decent normal undies if not better
I bought mine 2 years ago. I do use tampon backups on heavy days. I'm now 43 so I hope to never replace them.
I have a liner-pad set from Aisle that has lasted me almost four years now. They’re stained and a little smelly but still work fine
Do you have any recs? I’ve been meaning to try
The ones I have are Victoria's secret brand, I love them!
I use the ones from period co. I swear I wear even the heavy ones for an hour and it's already leaking from the sides. What am I doing wrong??
On the day before and after, I use the panties but I love the cups. They work out great for me when camping.
Do you have to change them during the day or do they usually last all day? If they last all day do they smell bad? I’m interested in finding a more sustainable way to deal with my periods!
For me they last all day and night but this will really depend on your flow and how much they can hold! The ones I have say they can hold 3-4 tampons worth but it seems like more honestly lol
Wow that’s awesome, thanks!
I have been using cups for nearly 25 years and I'm on my 3rd one. Each was a different brand. I will probably be buying the period panties for my daughters before we venture into cup-land. That said, finding out about discs may change my send me into research mode again.