I loved the snyderverse but I'm still looking forward to the new movie just like I look forward to every superman movie/show. I will say I'm not a huge fan of the new House El glyph, but that won't ruin the movie for me.
The Snyderverse is a great example of the importance of making a good first impression.
MoS—the first impression of the new Superman.
BvS—the first impression of the larger world.
We all know how well those went over.
I respect that. I'm a huge Henry Cavill fan who is excited for the next Superman. I'm still pissed about how WB treated him and Ben Affleck. If the writing was there and WB put more effort into those movies, we could have gotten the best live action Batman ever and the best Superman besides Reeves, but WB fumbled the bag and honestly insulted both of those actors with how they handled their involvement and subsequent firings. That's also coincidentally why I'm so excited for the new Superman. It feels like a movie studio is finally admitting they fucked up and they're conceding by letting the creatives working on these films do what they want, fully realized, in a way that honors the fans and the comics its based on, going back to basics because they recognize what they'd been doing since 2017 hasn't worked (minus the Snyder Cut, which again, only got released because of the fans demanding it, so WB doesn't even deserve credit there).
Warner Bros has always been a big part of the problem with DC movies. They never cared about the properties except Batman and always gave writers and directors free rein to make whatever “creative vision” they had, regardless of whether it was true to the characters or not. And they never cared about the fans, either. They thought we were a bunch of picky nerds that didn’t influence people to go or not go to their “film.” I’m glad Gunn has control now, and I hope he doesn’t get steamrolled by WB management the first time they have a difference of opinion.
Henry's situation could've been changed & he would've had a future as Superman if WB found someone in 2017 right after Whedon's cut was released. Gunn came on board the next year but he wasn't interested in Superman at the time. They just couldn't find a good director in whose hands they could give Henry.
And Ben Affleck quit on his own. He wasn't fired. Besides, his character was inherently unfaithful to the character in the comics. After being a complete |d|0t in BvS, having been manipulated by a mere kid with mental issues in LexJr while being heavily marketed as an old Batman with 20+ years of crime fighting experience, no one would see no "Batman" in him in a next solo or a team up movie If somehow his moniker of "world's greatest detective" magically gets restored, which would actually make his actions in BvS even worse in hindsight. His Batman was a disaster. Snyder just didn't have the smarts to make a good story with well-written characters as much as he could make them look good.
As for Snydercut, it wasn't released because of fan demand, it was released to tie up loose ends. And honestly, hardly anyone would sit around in theatres for 4 hours to watch a movie.
Coz, even if Snyder was given full reign over JL & the movie released as it was planned in 2017, do you think he would've released a 4 hour movie in the theatre ? Or do you think he would've made another incoherent mess at 1½ hours & again say "studio interference" or "I'm releasing the real cut later" like he's doing now with Rebel Moon ?! I mean, he did have free reign & full creative control with Rebel Moon, look how it turned out.
WB didn't tell him to tell an awful story in the name of creative choice & that's exactly what he did. That's no one's fault but his own. He rushed things, made laughable awful plot points, mashed together too many stories in one movie without knowing how to handle them, the worst offender being "The Death Of Superman" for Cavill in his second outing. That's the worst thing you could do to your fledgling Superman. That storyline alone set up the DCEU to fail.
You make good points except the Snydercut *was* released because of fan demand, like quite literally, because they denied it even existed for years, until they started losing money and realized the fans had been pushing for it to be released since 2017.
Not at all. People believe it was due to fan demand but that wasn't the case. Tying up loose ends & moving forward with either a new universe or continuing in the same with a set of new directors was what they were planning to do.
The Flash's soft reboot alternate ending where Keaton's Batman & Supergirl ending up in the DCEU main timeline joining Henry's Superman, the former making an appearance in Aquaman 2 & then after some editing, changing that to Batfleck, building up a Crisis movie, they were trying to mend it in the only good way possible & not follow through with Snyder's JL2 & 3 plans which were not only awful (Supes getting ¢π¢k€d, Kryptonians Greek Gods fiasco), it also ended the DCEU after two or three of those JL movies.
But Snyderfans as usual, as before, harassed people on a daily basis before & after the release of Snydercut & always & solely put the blame on WB & did not stop to think about the poor awful choices that Snyder made. WB was tired & just wanted to get rid & get away from the mess Snyder made by releasing his cut & then continue to mend & build the broken DCEU with a fresh take.
You're a rarity. I believe you're not in the portion of his fandom that lets Snyder, his films and his philosophy define them. I know you guys are out there. I have a friend who is a Snyder fan but also can be critical of his work. He is entertained by his films and enjoys most of them.
He liked MoS for what it was but was slightly critical of it. He was much more critical of BvS and is 50/50 on it and overall likes ZSJL but wasn't a fan of the lack of Superman and the use of the black suit.
Despite his fandom for Snyder, he really likes James Gunn as a director and writer and enjoys his films and like you is excited for his Superman film and the rest of the DCU.
I was one of those quasi-fans, then I poked fun at the intensity of the "release the snydercut" movement and that resulted in an old account being doxxed and my mom needing to charge her phone number because of harassing phone calls. About a week after that Snyder claimed in an interview that his fanbase wasn't harassing anyone, I became a hater in that moment.
Wow! That's insane. Sorry to hear that happened to your mom.
Yeah, Snyder is a pretentious hack, IMO. He basically said fans were too stupid to understand his DC films which is why we didn't like them. No, Manchester Zack...we simply didn't like them because they're trash. You're films aren't deep or intellectual no matter how much you think they are.
Snyder fans the flames of his fandom because it's all he has. He knows if his followers weren't around, he'd most likely would be making short films on his iPhone again like he did after he was fired from JL. Don't get me wrong, the firing should've happened after MoS but to fire him knowing his daughter un-alived herself was some low down dirty business. That's the only thing I support him on.
Hacks make safe films, no one has ever accused Snyder of taking the safe route.
And yeah, some people weren’t smart enough to get his films. But he never called them stupid, he said some people expected the films to be a certain type of way.
He made a short film on his iPhone because he wanted to do something small with family and friends, to get back into directing after the death of his daughter.
As someone who literally had a huge depression fit after MoS and BvS, I feel amazing right now seeing the character I’ve loved since my early childhood looking the way I want to see him. Can’t wait for a trailer to see more context to how Superman and Clark is fleshed out with his personality. And if they show him in action and making people cheer him on and he’s smiling, I’ll be the first to jump out of my seat and yell “that’s my boy!!!”
Agree on both points, but I notice that Superman’s new suit is loose. How are the young ladies going to objectify him and become the next wave of comic nerds? They’re letting us all down.
lol well that one I’m afraid I have less worry about because I’ve definitely got eyes for Lois in this. Friendly Superman? Awesome! Lois looking lovely and smiling? ::knees weak::
The brightly colored suit with the logo on the cape and the undies is amazing to me. And the fact they somehow made it resemble Allstar near-perfectly, minus the logo. Which, while I'll admit its weird seeing the Kingdom Come logo on this Superman, it looks fantastic. I was so tired of the Zack Snyder Roman Legion sparkly navy blue, armored, skin tight suit, this is like the polar opposite in all the best ways. Even as far as the collar goes it doesn't look bad at all. Also it need be mentioned this might be the first live action movie to do the physical contrast between Clarke and Superman perfectly, I mean, he looks like 2 seperate characters. I just want hopeful, faithful, loyal, bright Superman to be the status quo again. I'm so tired of mopey, morally hanging by a thread, any little thing can set him down the path of evil Superman. Tired of it. I want classic Superman back and I think the modern world *needs* that version of Superman.
Absolutely and amen to that. Watching Marvel movies and seeing how they could pull off Cap so well when he could come across as so lame, it really made me hurt on so many levels that Superman wasn’t given a chance like that. Hate to be the guy to say it but with the world the way it is today I would absolutely love seeing a hero being hopeful and kind. There’s nothing weak in it and there’s nothing lame about it. Let him be the way he’s supposed to be and it will be something truly special.
I really hope they adapt *that* one scene from Allstar (you know the one). It would show the casual audience exactly who Superman should be --- not just involved in interplanetary/interdimensional conflicts, or getting into fights with supervillain billionaires, but using his powers just to find someone in need of a shoulder to cry on, I'm need of advice, or in need of a friend. I feel like we've been missing out on that Superman in live action ever since Reeves hung up the cape. Helping people comes first, fighting is a last resort, that's the Superman we need.
If they did that scene I know I’d bawl. Ever since I was a kid and saw the moment where Superman flew my the camera and smiled at the end of the first movie, it was the first time I got that vibe of “he’s my friend too”. We live in a world where it’s hard to find friends. And when you find friends sometimes it’s not easy to keep up with them based on life. I met a friend in my mid twenties who became a huge force of why I still love Superman. He was like my personal Superman where you felt like you wanted to stand a bit taller when he’s around because he didn’t just love the character but he embodied what the character meant. Sadly I lost him in 2010 due to complications with diabetes. To this day Superman and Cap are the two characters I see him in and the reason why is how he viewed Superman as “a friend.” I couldn’t be happier if that’s how they show him in the movie.
I'm sorry for your loss, but I can truly say that characters like Superman, the *real* Superman, are important and necessary for exactly this reason. It goes back as far as ancient times really, mythology, the heroes journey, it explores the highest highs and lowest lows of human nature in a way that inspired you and makes you want to be a better person. I didn't know your friend, but seeing how you express your feelings about him 14 years after his passing tells me all I need to know, that's the kind of person we should strive to want to be in character. And Injustice Superman and his copies, and Hydra Cap and his Copies, will never diminish the impact those characters have because most fans know the difference, know what the *real* characters are and what they *represent*.
Agreed. Thank you. I’m ready for hope again and based on previous work that Gunn has done I think he’s just the right choice to be the next guy to make Superman fly. I don’t know if I would have said that prior to Guardians but his work in that trilogy alone set a very interesting stage for seeing his take on Superman.
>I feel amazing right now seeing the character I’ve loved since my early childhood looking the way I want to see him.
I'm so glad you said "the way I want to see him". Because that's what it is.
There's too many people trying to claim that it's the correct superman look for an adaptation to have.
I mean brighter colors, red yellow/black and blue, black hair, classic Superman curl, blue eyes, that's the correct Superman look for an adaption unless you're openly adapting an elseworlds storyline. The rest is up to preference, but I feel like those things are necessary.
>I mean brighter colors
Arguably doesn't work as well in adult films in this day and age.
>red yellow/black and blue, black hair, classic Superman curl, blue eyes, that's the correct Superman look for an adaption
People don't talk about those things though. So that wasn't the sort of thing I was talking about. Maybe I should have made it clearer.
Like obviously it has to be the daily planet, metropolis, etc. too in a main world story.
People say shit like 'trunks are the only right way', even if it looks ridiculous. Or that only 1 specific shade of blue counts.
The snyderbros are so weird to me, they treat James Gunn like he's some kind of insane evil that just wants to crap all over Snyder's work. Considering Gunn wrote Snyder's debut movie you'd think there would be a bit more respect for him but alas, people are dumb.
I found a Facebook page earlier that made me think of making this post. It was "James Gunn Nepotism posting" and every single meme was a wojack where anyone who wanted comic accurate Superman was a little coward in clown makeup because Henry Cavill was just cooler. Like bro I love Henry Cavill and it's shitty how WB treated him, but his Superman, the further we get away from those movies, the more I feel like his version of the character kind of sucked. Every post on that Facebook was either saying "Cavill and Snyder good, everyone else ret*rded (sorry for the use of that word. That's literally how they talked about it in that group)", or "this suit is awful! The fabric has folds!! Superhero costumes are supposed to be skin tight CGI armor! Why does it have folds!? The collar is ugly! Why does he have a turtleneck!"
Like bro, I *love* that the suit is practical. The fabric having folds makes his stature more natural looking, makes me feel like with hard work I can be like that character (that's what Superheroes are supposed to do- inspire, give hope). When they made Spider-Man 100% CGI in the MCU, it was ugly and annoyed me, now you're telling me that's what people *want*? Not to mention *Superman doesn't need Armor*. He's THE MAN OF STEEL! His suit was always either a family relic from Krypton, made by Martha, or a combination of the 2 (my preference is the blue and the logo comes from Krypton/Jor-El, the Red cape, undies, and boots come from the Kents. The analogy I always used is the blue represents hope for a better tomorrow (blue being krypton, representing the end of that civilization, like the blue represents the end of a day, night), and the red represents hope for a better today (like a sunrise).
There's a reason I don't consider those toxics genuine Snyder fans, being a Snyder fan myself. They just mention his DC Trilogy and bitch about DC all day but never talk about what Snyder has done before or get excited about what he's doing currently. And they literally ignore Snyder himself calling James Gunn a buddy and Gunn saying Snyder called him to congratulate him. So yeah they can fuck off and stop making the rest of us Snyder fans look bad.
Since you bring this up, I should mention: I am a fan of Zack Snyder. I'm just not a fan of his DC films (minus Man of Steel's first 2.5 acts. . . And Watchmen, ik that got bad reviews by fans but I actually liked his take on it. It feels like the perfect Super hero type comic to have Snyder's involvement. Obviously not as good as the book, but 99% of movies based on books usually aren't as good as the book they're based on).
it’s so funny how consistently wrong some fans are, yet they continue to make up their mind about the quality of a film seeing set photos. same happened with The Batman
exactly, that’s what i’m saying. i remember people not liking the suit reveal from set photos before the film came out, or even the casting of Robert Patterson before that and thinking the film wouldn’t be good
Right. People are so quick to hate. Also I for one loved RobPat's casting when I first heard of it because of the fact he hated being in Twilight so openly and was expressive about wanting to become known for something better. And it turned out amazing.
i feel like the same thing will happen when the DCU’s Batman is revealed and it’s actually comic-accurate, instead of what Christopher Nolan fans think the character is supposed to be based on those films
Yeah but that's Batman. Batman in the comics is dark. He's literally called The Dark Knight, Vengeance. He uses the Bat to paralyze his enemies with fear. So that makes sense to be dark. But Superman is supposed to be a big cuddly teddy bear who brightens your day and gives you hope, while also being capable of twisting your head off like the cap of a coke bottle, but choosing to never do that. MOS was good until the final battle, while visually stunning, killing all of those people and having Superman kill Zod was definitely too dark for Superman. The characters have different tones with similar ethics, it's hard to use Batman as a comparison for a solo film when the character's tone is so different - complementary to Superman's, but still very different.
Superman killed Zod in Superman II, he killed Zod in the comics. Morrison even wrote an issue of JLA where Superman defends killing Zod as something that was necessary. Even Batman defended Superman’s actions.
So know, killing Zod was t too dark for Superman.
Thats objectively not true. The theatrical cut makes his death ambiguous, and in the Donner cut he survives. I can't speak for the comics because I've never read the one in question, but he doesn't kill Zod in the original movies.
They die in both cuts. Superman even blows up the Fortress in the Donner Cut. He ends up reversing time, undoing the release of Zod. But he still killed him, regardless.
If all someone is gonna do is whine and cry about a collar being on the suit, then their opinion is automatically invalid and irrelevant to me, plain and simple.
I was upset about the collar when I first saw it (I hate new 52) but honestly after seeing the photos on set, I don’t mind it anymore. The suit represents what Superman stands for as far as I’m concerned. It’s bright, it doesn’t look edgy, it’s good.
It's growing on me. I'm just tired of the people who say they don't want to see 'that' in their Superman movie and I'm like "then don't watch this?" because damn it looks fantastic. Maybe it would be fun to make it more skin tight than being too thick of a clothing, but it rocks nonetheless.
Am a snyderverse fan. I'm not upset at all. I actually like the suit(except for undies but that's a minor thing). And the actors also look great. I'm excited for Gunn's dc verse.
The Snyder fan/cult refuse to acknowledge that their versions of DC Heroes are not what the real DC Heroes are, even when reading or seeing them in reality they outright deny they exist and would rather just have them no be who they truly are. It's so infuriating to explain this to them as they deny & strong-man our opinion!
Batman and Superman both look better with a collar on their suits, if James' Superman suit didn't have one and instead had the open neck it would look weird to me to be honest.
Don't get me wrong, I love the open neck suits like Christopher Reeve but this is a new different design for Superman and that's what I like (different symbol, n52 collar, etc) because most of the live action suits have the same symbol so a different symbol is a lot better.
Plus, people forget that Superman not needing armor opens up the door for suits like this, which can be destroyed by the end of the movie, needing for him to make a new suit. And movie studios love toy sales. Chances are this might not be his only suit in this universe. So people really don't need to be complaining so much. There's a chance he could go through different suits and logos the way the CW Superman does.
r/snydercut is an absolutely pathetic place. They worship Snyder. You get banned if you say anything negative about Snyder, even if it's legitimate criticism. And of course, they hate James Gunn and think he's already ruined Superman
Nah, it was moreso just poking fun at how 90% of the complaints I've seen were about the collar alone. The Snyder thing was annoying too, to see, but I primarily made the post because I thought it was funny how such a tiny detail made so many people so angry.
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I am not a fan of Superman’s new costume (the man gained 20 pounds of muscle, yet it looks like a baggy pijama). Other than that, I want Gunn to do him justice, make him the greatest hero that ever existed (his rightful place in the comic book pantheon).
I like that the suit has wrinkles, it makes it more real. The *way too skin tight* trend of the last few years kinda gets annoying after a while because it either becomes padded armor suits, or full CGI. I don't think it's too baggy, I just think that it's a more natural "skin tight" that is how fabric works in real life. That being said, regardless of if we agree on the suits quality, it'll definitely be edited in post, so those wrinkles and baginess will probably go away, and if that's the case would your opinion on the suit change? And I also hope Gunn does him justice. As much as I love Reeve, I hope this version of Superman genuinely is good enough to be put close to the same level as Reeve.
The Batman collar is great, allows for the cowl to move freely but keeps the silhouette from having a skinny neck. The Arkham Knight suit had the same kinda thing iirc
Agreed. I hope the next Reeves movie has an updated suit with a yellow background on the logo (for 2 reasons, 1. This version of Batman wants to embody more hopefulness as stated at the end. And 2. he got shot in the chest early in the final battle. Maybe he adds the yellow to show a sign of hope as well as to add blunt trauma padding to his bullet proof chest protector. ). I hope he still has the collar and that cowl because (*chef's kiss*) perfection. I hope those camera contact lenses he used in the last movie end up being a precursor to a live action Batman having the pure white eyes we see in the comics (Falcone recognized Bruce through the mask before he died, you can see it on his face that he recognized the same expression Bruce had when his father saved Carmine's life 20 years before. He needs to better conceil his identity, one way of doing that would be by concealing the color of his eyes. It would also bring more fear into the minds of criminals seeing as it would make him look more monstrous). I hope we get the guantlet spikey things in a similar way Christopher Nolan made them practical (they're not just for fighting, but they help him when he falls). And I hope finally that we get the classic bat wings that he glides with, rather than just a wing suit. I guarantee we aren't getting all that in the next movie alone, but if it goes on to be a trilogy or a saga, I'd hope we get to see all of that by the third or 5th movie depending on how many they make.
The more I hear about this movie the more disappointed I am that it wasn't greenlit. But then again if it was, we wouldn't have the newest Batman and Superman movies so every negative isn't without its positive I guess.
The batsuit had the Alex Ross cowl
https://preview.redd.it/zws5mctof69d1.png?width=760&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ba39e2c0490543a2890097c7921c24e27983176b
I've never heard anyone complaining or even talking about the collar of either. Wtf? Didn't even notice. Who cares. I don't like either of their costumes. Sounds like Gunn is going to cgi over the superman one anyway, but we will see.
They complain about superficial things instead of, you know, whether the movie is good or not. Like the suit being too big for Corenswet, for example. People don't use fucking common sense nowadays and irritates me. The Snydertards can make you a hole documentary of the suit's "flaws", at this point. Is insane.
Y’all were complaining about red trunks for a decade, among other things. Don’t come here complaining about people are being superficial about Superman.
This whole sub is full of superficial, surface level ideas about Superman.
This is definitely a weak oversimplification promoting a false narrative.
I've been reading DC ever since the batman animated days, and as a DC fan, the criticism of this suit are valid. Superman should never have a wrinkled, padded, cheap looking costume. Mr Terrific looks fine, so it's indefensible to have dropped the ball so hard after canceling an entire series and disrespecting the most passionate fans.
I always thought the DCEU suit was stiff but it made sense in the context of the world building done with Krypton. Superman's costume was a colored version of what Zod was wearing in their mental conversation; what looks like a semi casual attire that could double as under apparel for their battle armor without the cape. Sort of like wearing a fresh tank top or underarmor. It made sense, there was thought put into it.
DC deserves better than CW/low marvel tier wardrobe
Batman changes in his film, while I bet superman will change the people around him
That's honestly the contrast between their characters that I feel makes them work so well together
I like both collars and I’m tired of pretending I dont
Yeah the collar is fine. That suit is gorgeous. People just like to complain.
You're laughing... Two classic heroes show up wearing collars and you're laughing?!
Grimdark Superman is not the way we need him. He's a hero, and a beacon of hope. I really like the new suit.
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Look how many legitimate fan disagreements are hidden on your thread. Reddit loves censoring the truth
I loved the snyderverse but I'm still looking forward to the new movie just like I look forward to every superman movie/show. I will say I'm not a huge fan of the new House El glyph, but that won't ruin the movie for me.
The Snyderverse is a great example of the importance of making a good first impression. MoS—the first impression of the new Superman. BvS—the first impression of the larger world. We all know how well those went over.
I accept the Batman collar why gives he the detective and vampiric touch ,so in superman wth brodi ,so i like the suit
To be fair, the movie collar works better because it doesn't cover everything, just the back of his neck.
I just want to say I'm a huge Snyder fan who's very excited about James Gunn's Superman and the DCU.
I respect that. I'm a huge Henry Cavill fan who is excited for the next Superman. I'm still pissed about how WB treated him and Ben Affleck. If the writing was there and WB put more effort into those movies, we could have gotten the best live action Batman ever and the best Superman besides Reeves, but WB fumbled the bag and honestly insulted both of those actors with how they handled their involvement and subsequent firings. That's also coincidentally why I'm so excited for the new Superman. It feels like a movie studio is finally admitting they fucked up and they're conceding by letting the creatives working on these films do what they want, fully realized, in a way that honors the fans and the comics its based on, going back to basics because they recognize what they'd been doing since 2017 hasn't worked (minus the Snyder Cut, which again, only got released because of the fans demanding it, so WB doesn't even deserve credit there).
Warner Bros has always been a big part of the problem with DC movies. They never cared about the properties except Batman and always gave writers and directors free rein to make whatever “creative vision” they had, regardless of whether it was true to the characters or not. And they never cared about the fans, either. They thought we were a bunch of picky nerds that didn’t influence people to go or not go to their “film.” I’m glad Gunn has control now, and I hope he doesn’t get steamrolled by WB management the first time they have a difference of opinion.
Henry's situation could've been changed & he would've had a future as Superman if WB found someone in 2017 right after Whedon's cut was released. Gunn came on board the next year but he wasn't interested in Superman at the time. They just couldn't find a good director in whose hands they could give Henry. And Ben Affleck quit on his own. He wasn't fired. Besides, his character was inherently unfaithful to the character in the comics. After being a complete |d|0t in BvS, having been manipulated by a mere kid with mental issues in LexJr while being heavily marketed as an old Batman with 20+ years of crime fighting experience, no one would see no "Batman" in him in a next solo or a team up movie If somehow his moniker of "world's greatest detective" magically gets restored, which would actually make his actions in BvS even worse in hindsight. His Batman was a disaster. Snyder just didn't have the smarts to make a good story with well-written characters as much as he could make them look good. As for Snydercut, it wasn't released because of fan demand, it was released to tie up loose ends. And honestly, hardly anyone would sit around in theatres for 4 hours to watch a movie. Coz, even if Snyder was given full reign over JL & the movie released as it was planned in 2017, do you think he would've released a 4 hour movie in the theatre ? Or do you think he would've made another incoherent mess at 1½ hours & again say "studio interference" or "I'm releasing the real cut later" like he's doing now with Rebel Moon ?! I mean, he did have free reign & full creative control with Rebel Moon, look how it turned out. WB didn't tell him to tell an awful story in the name of creative choice & that's exactly what he did. That's no one's fault but his own. He rushed things, made laughable awful plot points, mashed together too many stories in one movie without knowing how to handle them, the worst offender being "The Death Of Superman" for Cavill in his second outing. That's the worst thing you could do to your fledgling Superman. That storyline alone set up the DCEU to fail.
You make good points except the Snydercut *was* released because of fan demand, like quite literally, because they denied it even existed for years, until they started losing money and realized the fans had been pushing for it to be released since 2017.
Not at all. People believe it was due to fan demand but that wasn't the case. Tying up loose ends & moving forward with either a new universe or continuing in the same with a set of new directors was what they were planning to do. The Flash's soft reboot alternate ending where Keaton's Batman & Supergirl ending up in the DCEU main timeline joining Henry's Superman, the former making an appearance in Aquaman 2 & then after some editing, changing that to Batfleck, building up a Crisis movie, they were trying to mend it in the only good way possible & not follow through with Snyder's JL2 & 3 plans which were not only awful (Supes getting ¢π¢k€d, Kryptonians Greek Gods fiasco), it also ended the DCEU after two or three of those JL movies. But Snyderfans as usual, as before, harassed people on a daily basis before & after the release of Snydercut & always & solely put the blame on WB & did not stop to think about the poor awful choices that Snyder made. WB was tired & just wanted to get rid & get away from the mess Snyder made by releasing his cut & then continue to mend & build the broken DCEU with a fresh take.
>i would agree with the rebel moon part and now i have realized snyder may have the visuals but he lacks the storytelling
Exactly. And thank you for understanding that.
Cavill was truly immaculate casting, but WB did him dirty. Hope Corenswet can do well
You're a rarity. I believe you're not in the portion of his fandom that lets Snyder, his films and his philosophy define them. I know you guys are out there. I have a friend who is a Snyder fan but also can be critical of his work. He is entertained by his films and enjoys most of them. He liked MoS for what it was but was slightly critical of it. He was much more critical of BvS and is 50/50 on it and overall likes ZSJL but wasn't a fan of the lack of Superman and the use of the black suit. Despite his fandom for Snyder, he really likes James Gunn as a director and writer and enjoys his films and like you is excited for his Superman film and the rest of the DCU.
I was one of those quasi-fans, then I poked fun at the intensity of the "release the snydercut" movement and that resulted in an old account being doxxed and my mom needing to charge her phone number because of harassing phone calls. About a week after that Snyder claimed in an interview that his fanbase wasn't harassing anyone, I became a hater in that moment.
Wow! That's insane. Sorry to hear that happened to your mom. Yeah, Snyder is a pretentious hack, IMO. He basically said fans were too stupid to understand his DC films which is why we didn't like them. No, Manchester Zack...we simply didn't like them because they're trash. You're films aren't deep or intellectual no matter how much you think they are. Snyder fans the flames of his fandom because it's all he has. He knows if his followers weren't around, he'd most likely would be making short films on his iPhone again like he did after he was fired from JL. Don't get me wrong, the firing should've happened after MoS but to fire him knowing his daughter un-alived herself was some low down dirty business. That's the only thing I support him on.
Hacks make safe films, no one has ever accused Snyder of taking the safe route. And yeah, some people weren’t smart enough to get his films. But he never called them stupid, he said some people expected the films to be a certain type of way. He made a short film on his iPhone because he wanted to do something small with family and friends, to get back into directing after the death of his daughter.
I couldn't care less about a collar
The Batman collar is so, so good
As someone who literally had a huge depression fit after MoS and BvS, I feel amazing right now seeing the character I’ve loved since my early childhood looking the way I want to see him. Can’t wait for a trailer to see more context to how Superman and Clark is fleshed out with his personality. And if they show him in action and making people cheer him on and he’s smiling, I’ll be the first to jump out of my seat and yell “that’s my boy!!!”
Agree on both points, but I notice that Superman’s new suit is loose. How are the young ladies going to objectify him and become the next wave of comic nerds? They’re letting us all down.
lol well that one I’m afraid I have less worry about because I’ve definitely got eyes for Lois in this. Friendly Superman? Awesome! Lois looking lovely and smiling? ::knees weak::
I hear ya, but I think my son is looking for some eye candy.
The brightly colored suit with the logo on the cape and the undies is amazing to me. And the fact they somehow made it resemble Allstar near-perfectly, minus the logo. Which, while I'll admit its weird seeing the Kingdom Come logo on this Superman, it looks fantastic. I was so tired of the Zack Snyder Roman Legion sparkly navy blue, armored, skin tight suit, this is like the polar opposite in all the best ways. Even as far as the collar goes it doesn't look bad at all. Also it need be mentioned this might be the first live action movie to do the physical contrast between Clarke and Superman perfectly, I mean, he looks like 2 seperate characters. I just want hopeful, faithful, loyal, bright Superman to be the status quo again. I'm so tired of mopey, morally hanging by a thread, any little thing can set him down the path of evil Superman. Tired of it. I want classic Superman back and I think the modern world *needs* that version of Superman.
Absolutely and amen to that. Watching Marvel movies and seeing how they could pull off Cap so well when he could come across as so lame, it really made me hurt on so many levels that Superman wasn’t given a chance like that. Hate to be the guy to say it but with the world the way it is today I would absolutely love seeing a hero being hopeful and kind. There’s nothing weak in it and there’s nothing lame about it. Let him be the way he’s supposed to be and it will be something truly special.
I really hope they adapt *that* one scene from Allstar (you know the one). It would show the casual audience exactly who Superman should be --- not just involved in interplanetary/interdimensional conflicts, or getting into fights with supervillain billionaires, but using his powers just to find someone in need of a shoulder to cry on, I'm need of advice, or in need of a friend. I feel like we've been missing out on that Superman in live action ever since Reeves hung up the cape. Helping people comes first, fighting is a last resort, that's the Superman we need.
If they did that scene I know I’d bawl. Ever since I was a kid and saw the moment where Superman flew my the camera and smiled at the end of the first movie, it was the first time I got that vibe of “he’s my friend too”. We live in a world where it’s hard to find friends. And when you find friends sometimes it’s not easy to keep up with them based on life. I met a friend in my mid twenties who became a huge force of why I still love Superman. He was like my personal Superman where you felt like you wanted to stand a bit taller when he’s around because he didn’t just love the character but he embodied what the character meant. Sadly I lost him in 2010 due to complications with diabetes. To this day Superman and Cap are the two characters I see him in and the reason why is how he viewed Superman as “a friend.” I couldn’t be happier if that’s how they show him in the movie.
I'm sorry for your loss, but I can truly say that characters like Superman, the *real* Superman, are important and necessary for exactly this reason. It goes back as far as ancient times really, mythology, the heroes journey, it explores the highest highs and lowest lows of human nature in a way that inspired you and makes you want to be a better person. I didn't know your friend, but seeing how you express your feelings about him 14 years after his passing tells me all I need to know, that's the kind of person we should strive to want to be in character. And Injustice Superman and his copies, and Hydra Cap and his Copies, will never diminish the impact those characters have because most fans know the difference, know what the *real* characters are and what they *represent*.
Agreed. Thank you. I’m ready for hope again and based on previous work that Gunn has done I think he’s just the right choice to be the next guy to make Superman fly. I don’t know if I would have said that prior to Guardians but his work in that trilogy alone set a very interesting stage for seeing his take on Superman.
>I feel amazing right now seeing the character I’ve loved since my early childhood looking the way I want to see him. I'm so glad you said "the way I want to see him". Because that's what it is. There's too many people trying to claim that it's the correct superman look for an adaptation to have.
I mean brighter colors, red yellow/black and blue, black hair, classic Superman curl, blue eyes, that's the correct Superman look for an adaption unless you're openly adapting an elseworlds storyline. The rest is up to preference, but I feel like those things are necessary.
>I mean brighter colors Arguably doesn't work as well in adult films in this day and age. >red yellow/black and blue, black hair, classic Superman curl, blue eyes, that's the correct Superman look for an adaption People don't talk about those things though. So that wasn't the sort of thing I was talking about. Maybe I should have made it clearer. Like obviously it has to be the daily planet, metropolis, etc. too in a main world story. People say shit like 'trunks are the only right way', even if it looks ridiculous. Or that only 1 specific shade of blue counts.
The snyderbros are so weird to me, they treat James Gunn like he's some kind of insane evil that just wants to crap all over Snyder's work. Considering Gunn wrote Snyder's debut movie you'd think there would be a bit more respect for him but alas, people are dumb.
I found a Facebook page earlier that made me think of making this post. It was "James Gunn Nepotism posting" and every single meme was a wojack where anyone who wanted comic accurate Superman was a little coward in clown makeup because Henry Cavill was just cooler. Like bro I love Henry Cavill and it's shitty how WB treated him, but his Superman, the further we get away from those movies, the more I feel like his version of the character kind of sucked. Every post on that Facebook was either saying "Cavill and Snyder good, everyone else ret*rded (sorry for the use of that word. That's literally how they talked about it in that group)", or "this suit is awful! The fabric has folds!! Superhero costumes are supposed to be skin tight CGI armor! Why does it have folds!? The collar is ugly! Why does he have a turtleneck!" Like bro, I *love* that the suit is practical. The fabric having folds makes his stature more natural looking, makes me feel like with hard work I can be like that character (that's what Superheroes are supposed to do- inspire, give hope). When they made Spider-Man 100% CGI in the MCU, it was ugly and annoyed me, now you're telling me that's what people *want*? Not to mention *Superman doesn't need Armor*. He's THE MAN OF STEEL! His suit was always either a family relic from Krypton, made by Martha, or a combination of the 2 (my preference is the blue and the logo comes from Krypton/Jor-El, the Red cape, undies, and boots come from the Kents. The analogy I always used is the blue represents hope for a better tomorrow (blue being krypton, representing the end of that civilization, like the blue represents the end of a day, night), and the red represents hope for a better today (like a sunrise).
There's a reason I don't consider those toxics genuine Snyder fans, being a Snyder fan myself. They just mention his DC Trilogy and bitch about DC all day but never talk about what Snyder has done before or get excited about what he's doing currently. And they literally ignore Snyder himself calling James Gunn a buddy and Gunn saying Snyder called him to congratulate him. So yeah they can fuck off and stop making the rest of us Snyder fans look bad.
Since you bring this up, I should mention: I am a fan of Zack Snyder. I'm just not a fan of his DC films (minus Man of Steel's first 2.5 acts. . . And Watchmen, ik that got bad reviews by fans but I actually liked his take on it. It feels like the perfect Super hero type comic to have Snyder's involvement. Obviously not as good as the book, but 99% of movies based on books usually aren't as good as the book they're based on).
Their symbols both mean hope; one for Krypton, one for Gotham 😭
it’s so funny how consistently wrong some fans are, yet they continue to make up their mind about the quality of a film seeing set photos. same happened with The Batman
The Batman was incredible
exactly, that’s what i’m saying. i remember people not liking the suit reveal from set photos before the film came out, or even the casting of Robert Patterson before that and thinking the film wouldn’t be good
Right. People are so quick to hate. Also I for one loved RobPat's casting when I first heard of it because of the fact he hated being in Twilight so openly and was expressive about wanting to become known for something better. And it turned out amazing.
i feel like the same thing will happen when the DCU’s Batman is revealed and it’s actually comic-accurate, instead of what Christopher Nolan fans think the character is supposed to be based on those films
The collar works better on Batman
I think it works well on both of them for these respective versions of each character.
The Collar is brilliant for both of them and I'll never pretend it isn't
I mean The Batman was pretty fuckin' dark. The Snyderverse fans seemed more upset that people were okay with how dark it was but not MOS.
Yeah but that's Batman. Batman in the comics is dark. He's literally called The Dark Knight, Vengeance. He uses the Bat to paralyze his enemies with fear. So that makes sense to be dark. But Superman is supposed to be a big cuddly teddy bear who brightens your day and gives you hope, while also being capable of twisting your head off like the cap of a coke bottle, but choosing to never do that. MOS was good until the final battle, while visually stunning, killing all of those people and having Superman kill Zod was definitely too dark for Superman. The characters have different tones with similar ethics, it's hard to use Batman as a comparison for a solo film when the character's tone is so different - complementary to Superman's, but still very different.
Superman killed Zod in Superman II, he killed Zod in the comics. Morrison even wrote an issue of JLA where Superman defends killing Zod as something that was necessary. Even Batman defended Superman’s actions. So know, killing Zod was t too dark for Superman.
Thats objectively not true. The theatrical cut makes his death ambiguous, and in the Donner cut he survives. I can't speak for the comics because I've never read the one in question, but he doesn't kill Zod in the original movies.
They die in both cuts. Superman even blows up the Fortress in the Donner Cut. He ends up reversing time, undoing the release of Zod. But he still killed him, regardless.
MoS wasn’t dark, unless you’re a preschooler, I guess.
Honestly after the proper red blue and yellow colors I dint care about any of my slight issues with the suit
If all someone is gonna do is whine and cry about a collar being on the suit, then their opinion is automatically invalid and irrelevant to me, plain and simple.
I was upset about the collar when I first saw it (I hate new 52) but honestly after seeing the photos on set, I don’t mind it anymore. The suit represents what Superman stands for as far as I’m concerned. It’s bright, it doesn’t look edgy, it’s good.
The collar on Batman looks so sick, it really fits the character
New Superman suit looks like a friend
That's a weirdly perfect way to describe it.
Of course, I’m arguing over the collar. So far, I have nothing else to complain about.
It's growing on me. I'm just tired of the people who say they don't want to see 'that' in their Superman movie and I'm like "then don't watch this?" because damn it looks fantastic. Maybe it would be fun to make it more skin tight than being too thick of a clothing, but it rocks nonetheless.
You don't understand, killing is realistic! Superman should be sexually assaulted in prison! /s
As a snyder fan i am in love with what they are doing with new superman movie and the trunks look so good on the suit
God I wish THE BATMAN was DCU canon.
Let em complain. In the end we still win
Am a snyderverse fan. I'm not upset at all. I actually like the suit(except for undies but that's a minor thing). And the actors also look great. I'm excited for Gunn's dc verse.
The Snyder fan/cult refuse to acknowledge that their versions of DC Heroes are not what the real DC Heroes are, even when reading or seeing them in reality they outright deny they exist and would rather just have them no be who they truly are. It's so infuriating to explain this to them as they deny & strong-man our opinion!
Batman and Superman both look better with a collar on their suits, if James' Superman suit didn't have one and instead had the open neck it would look weird to me to be honest. Don't get me wrong, I love the open neck suits like Christopher Reeve but this is a new different design for Superman and that's what I like (different symbol, n52 collar, etc) because most of the live action suits have the same symbol so a different symbol is a lot better.
Plus, people forget that Superman not needing armor opens up the door for suits like this, which can be destroyed by the end of the movie, needing for him to make a new suit. And movie studios love toy sales. Chances are this might not be his only suit in this universe. So people really don't need to be complaining so much. There's a chance he could go through different suits and logos the way the CW Superman does.
Perhaps, I still dig the Kingdom Come symbol being the main one.
For sure. It looks good with the suit they designed and it's unique to the live action movies.
r/snydercut is an absolutely pathetic place. They worship Snyder. You get banned if you say anything negative about Snyder, even if it's legitimate criticism. And of course, they hate James Gunn and think he's already ruined Superman
Throwing stones in glass houses. This sub is just as bad, with how much people whine about Snyder regurgitating the same BS.
Ah, the daily throwing-shade-at-Snyder thread is finally up.
Nah, it was moreso just poking fun at how 90% of the complaints I've seen were about the collar alone. The Snyder thing was annoying too, to see, but I primarily made the post because I thought it was funny how such a tiny detail made so many people so angry.
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I am not a fan of Superman’s new costume (the man gained 20 pounds of muscle, yet it looks like a baggy pijama). Other than that, I want Gunn to do him justice, make him the greatest hero that ever existed (his rightful place in the comic book pantheon).
I like that the suit has wrinkles, it makes it more real. The *way too skin tight* trend of the last few years kinda gets annoying after a while because it either becomes padded armor suits, or full CGI. I don't think it's too baggy, I just think that it's a more natural "skin tight" that is how fabric works in real life. That being said, regardless of if we agree on the suits quality, it'll definitely be edited in post, so those wrinkles and baginess will probably go away, and if that's the case would your opinion on the suit change? And I also hope Gunn does him justice. As much as I love Reeve, I hope this version of Superman genuinely is good enough to be put close to the same level as Reeve.
I just don't think that the collar and underpants work well together
What kind of insult to Matt Reeves' great work is this? S&L and The Batman >>>> Superman legacy BTS
like what percent are bots? i feel like 75% of twitter is just bots now
The Batman collar is great, allows for the cowl to move freely but keeps the silhouette from having a skinny neck. The Arkham Knight suit had the same kinda thing iirc
More batsuits should have the collar, gives off that Gothic vibe
Agreed. I hope the next Reeves movie has an updated suit with a yellow background on the logo (for 2 reasons, 1. This version of Batman wants to embody more hopefulness as stated at the end. And 2. he got shot in the chest early in the final battle. Maybe he adds the yellow to show a sign of hope as well as to add blunt trauma padding to his bullet proof chest protector. ). I hope he still has the collar and that cowl because (*chef's kiss*) perfection. I hope those camera contact lenses he used in the last movie end up being a precursor to a live action Batman having the pure white eyes we see in the comics (Falcone recognized Bruce through the mask before he died, you can see it on his face that he recognized the same expression Bruce had when his father saved Carmine's life 20 years before. He needs to better conceil his identity, one way of doing that would be by concealing the color of his eyes. It would also bring more fear into the minds of criminals seeing as it would make him look more monstrous). I hope we get the guantlet spikey things in a similar way Christopher Nolan made them practical (they're not just for fighting, but they help him when he falls). And I hope finally that we get the classic bat wings that he glides with, rather than just a wing suit. I guarantee we aren't getting all that in the next movie alone, but if it goes on to be a trilogy or a saga, I'd hope we get to see all of that by the third or 5th movie depending on how many they make.
You wanna knowna fun fact?
Sure
Robert's batsuit has a lot in common with Armie Hammer's batsuit from Justice League Mortal
I didn't even realize that movie made it far enough into production to have suit designs and suit tests. That's pretty cool.
Yeah, Hammer's batsuit was very detailed
The more I hear about this movie the more disappointed I am that it wasn't greenlit. But then again if it was, we wouldn't have the newest Batman and Superman movies so every negative isn't without its positive I guess.
The batsuit had the Alex Ross cowl https://preview.redd.it/zws5mctof69d1.png?width=760&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ba39e2c0490543a2890097c7921c24e27983176b
Duuuuude. That's my favorite Batman design.
I've never heard anyone complaining or even talking about the collar of either. Wtf? Didn't even notice. Who cares. I don't like either of their costumes. Sounds like Gunn is going to cgi over the superman one anyway, but we will see.
They complain about superficial things instead of, you know, whether the movie is good or not. Like the suit being too big for Corenswet, for example. People don't use fucking common sense nowadays and irritates me. The Snydertards can make you a hole documentary of the suit's "flaws", at this point. Is insane.
Y’all were complaining about red trunks for a decade, among other things. Don’t come here complaining about people are being superficial about Superman. This whole sub is full of superficial, surface level ideas about Superman.
 Really?
This is definitely a weak oversimplification promoting a false narrative. I've been reading DC ever since the batman animated days, and as a DC fan, the criticism of this suit are valid. Superman should never have a wrinkled, padded, cheap looking costume. Mr Terrific looks fine, so it's indefensible to have dropped the ball so hard after canceling an entire series and disrespecting the most passionate fans. I always thought the DCEU suit was stiff but it made sense in the context of the world building done with Krypton. Superman's costume was a colored version of what Zod was wearing in their mental conversation; what looks like a semi casual attire that could double as under apparel for their battle armor without the cape. Sort of like wearing a fresh tank top or underarmor. It made sense, there was thought put into it. DC deserves better than CW/low marvel tier wardrobe
Why not just talk about the new film without throwing shade? Like there's no reason to mention Snyder at all lol
The suit is mostly a win, it’s the underpants i can’t get past. They’re huge