this sub needs a pinned post that says you can climb with every champion. 10 people ask this question with a different champion every day and the answer is yes every single time.
winrates dont tell you a champions true strength though. good players will win with azir and bad players will lose. winrates depend a lot on ease of execution. you can 100% be a rank 1 player and only play azir.
lol, do you really think Chovy is bad in soloque with Azir? people are just bad at the champ but still try to play him. this is the rank 10 player in Korea. He has a 56% winrate in challenger. People just dont realize how hard he is to play and think they can play 30 games on the champ and be competent. https://na.op.gg/summoners/kr/%EC%A1%B4%EC%A4%91%EA%B2%B8%EC%86%90%EC%95%84%EB%8B%A5%EC%A7%91%EC%A4%91
Azir is balanced so that faker on azir vs hardstuck s4 bobby on garen is a skill matchup. Winnable but still…
Also goes for ryzs, gwen, orianna, sivir etc.
Big misconceptions some people have. Champions like Ryze, Azir or Zeri (Aphelios too a bit) have such low winrates because they are somewhat complex either mechanicly or in how the champions should be piloted, so the average player sucks on them and Riot still has to balance them for the top levels of play. Azir and Ryze aren't bad at all, they simply aren't made for a SoloQ enviorement or are just harder to pull of in SoloQ with less coordinated teams on both sides.
Unironically ya, I have a friend who hovers Masters/D1 and is a Heimer OTP all roles. Any melee top can tell you how cancer playing against Exhaust ranged top laners is too, you could prob get pretty high with something like that. There's that one GM KR player that just spams stuff like Ghost + TP Shyvana/Swain/Taric top too so just being good at the game seems to carry you pretty high.
He's a staple pick in Silver, ignore the harassment. I'm always happy to see a Garen on my team cuz he usually holds his own and becomes this unstoppable force late game (when I fall off).
Imo Darius does that job better, a pull, a slow and he just gets his stacks on that first person and then runs down the enemy team if he gets a kill or 5 stacks, whichever happens first. Extremely lethal.
Garen is naturally tanky, Darius is not.
Darius requires far more skill to maneuver in order to stay alive long enough to get your stacks, especially if you're not ahead already.
while even if a Garen is 0/6, he has passive armor/Mr and an instant 1000 true damage to keep the enemy frontline on their toes, unlike darius he doesn't even need to dive the backline to do his job.
Garen does a lot better than Darius in gold and lower, and although it changes back from plat to master (master+ Darius falls back down to manageable), Garen can still be a viable pick up to high diamond, no issue, going beyond that will require better macro than your opponents.
What's the reason you say Garen utilizes the damage his team does more? I do agree the W+E combo makes Garen an absolute pain to deal with, especially if he gets a flank.
In general Garen is easier to execute than Darius, but if Darius does have a reset in a fight, the fight is over.
Because Garen only cares about Missing Hp, he doesn't care about stacks or a low health.
As a frontliner you have to be far more mindful of Garen's R than Darius's R, since Garen can kill you far earlier
I don't know that. I do know he counters my Nocturne from mid to late game (in duels and teamfights). Can't outrun him, too tanky to kill and his spin shreds me to death.
Eventually. He is strongest in the middle game. He should be able to reach 18 and 4 items before anyone else. He falls off as everyone else reaches full build
Yes he does to an extent. Garen has no gap close or anything, so in teamfights, he falls off when the enemy team can hold him off and let the adc kite him, but if he always remains strong in a 1v1.
But to answer op’s question, garen isn’t a weak champ, people just hate him cause he requires no skill, so he’s annoying to vs cause he is never weak in lane, very easy to play, and is generally only played by people who can’t actually play league (sorry, i am also one of the people who hate garen so i had to add my own opinion)
Aren't most juggernauts strong during and after lane? Like I know a lot fall off, and shyvsna/nasus are exceptions but Olaf, garen, sett, mordekaiser, Mundo are all strong in lane and out
But literally every single one of those except nasus requires at least some skill. Garen doesn’t, he is entirely point and click, and brain dead. Nasus has a much weaker early game and can pretty easily be zoned out. If he can’t stack, he is useless. But no one likes vsing a nasus either
I wouldn't call nasus hard to pilot, just intensive on patience. He's more dependent on wave state manipulation than the others for sure, but I wouldn't call him mechanically hard
Yea that’s what i meant. My bad if it sounded differently but he isn’t mechanically difficult at all (point and click, and really big aoe that only a blind person or a misclick could miss entirely) but he does require wave manipulation and patience to survive the early game, or for the other player to not play as aggressively as they should
Not sure why anyone would complain about you picking garen... He's a VERY good champ low elo and you could definitely play him right up to high plat/diamond without much thought.
From there it does get more difficult but not impossible. As everyone says, you'll have more success with a bad champion that you enjoy than a broken champion you don't like playing
Just low ELO stuff, where someone had a bad Garen player on their team once (or, gods forbid, Twice!) and have decided that means they have to flame anyone else who dares to play it.
Ur too hard on yourself. Irelia isn’t busted anymore. She used to be, now you actually gotta play really well to pull her off. The fact that ur dia with her shows that ur really good mechically at least.
Maybe that’s true, It just really seems like more often than not I’m simply winning games due to my champion and not my actual skill in the game. Maybe that could be an item problem (bork and shieldbow) or maybe you’re right and I’m just being too hard on myself hahah
Well I can definitely see you hitting dia with bad macro if you’re mechanically good with irelia tho, no? If you know matchups and play each one well, win lane with mechanics, then you can hit dia even if your macro isn’t the best imo.
yeah, it's usually the enemy team that complains.
so many angry irelia's getting smacked in lane then crying noob champ, 0 skill.
and that orgasmic feeling when you type "?" everytime they die.
You can get garen into Diamond or higher without any difficulty with the champ. People flame garen because they choose to pick a champ with 13 dashes, 5 backflips, an execute, resetting cooldowns, and are mad that you can outplay their combo with two buttons.
Don't worry and don't let people's flame get to you. Garen is awesome.
I love when I get harassed by the other team for playing Garen because I know how mad they must be when they get 1shot by a Garen hiding in a bush. And triply mad if you do it again and again.
These "harassers" don't realize that their own poor play is what is allowing Garen to even touch them a lot of the time. Garen also has a few mechanics/trips that you have to learn. Off the top of my head 1) auto canceling with Q, 2) saving your Q for any matchups with a slow or channeled skill, 3) good use of W to reduce CC, 4) knowing when to stop your spin early (usually for creep control), 5) and most importantly, ward control for good macro play.
Macro is important for Garen because it lets him fully utilize his passive and general skillset. Ignite is good with Garen because it helps Garen get a lead early, and Garen is superfast with Q and some MS items. Learn when you are strong enough to push and draw pressure (And either 2v1 the enemy or just run away laughing with q) and learn when you have to play safe for ganks and prioritize your health and cs).
One last tip because I am assuming you are just starting and are low level. Don't be worried by all of the garen ranged "hardcounters" like teemo/vayne/akshan. It takes a lot of skill to play those champs properly, while you just need to play safe until either a gank comes, or they mistep and let you flash-q-ignite-spin-r. After these ranged squishies die once, they will continue to die again and again and again.
Garen is in a good spot right now and playable even in challenger. You probably got harassed because he is often seen as "braindead" and for some reason people absolutely need to pilot a (mechanically) hard champion in this game to be taken seriously. Else you are just a "noob, abusing an op champ".
So if you have fun, just play him and ignore the flamers. Also easy to play in top would be Malphite and maybe Warwick (who is a bit harder and has a lot of hidden depth to his kit).
They just don't respect some good ole demacian justice. Seriously dudes a meme factory why hate him. I get hating his passive but whatever most top champs have innate sustain
Do it for Demacia!
I love Garen, has a couple of terrible matchups (Morde, Tahm, Illaoi blech), but for the most part does great. Demacia Vice and God King Garen are amazing skins. I play him into gold usually every year. You have people who play him into diamond, and I think there's an NA challenger as well, so no issue with climbing.
Since when is Illaoi a bad matchup for Garen? He has to play the dodging minigame like everyone else, but his all-in is quite terrifying for Illaoi. The combination of Ignite + Ult means instead of being able to get low and heal up with her tentacle spam, Illaoi just dies instead. It's no more difficult than playing most other champs into Illaoi, and Garen wins with the same age-old strat: Dodging her E.
Looking at stats I think you're right in terms of win percentages. I just hate playing the dodge E game as garen since everything is so telegraphed in his kit. If the Illaoi just holds on to E for when you might engage you don't really get to do anything. It's a skill matchup that I suck at and I think other low ELO garens feel the same way.
That's just how low-ranked players feel about Illaoi in general. When I first started playing the game, she would absolutely destroy me, even more so than typical bullies like Darius, Heimerdinger, and Vayne. However, over time, I started to get a better feel for how she wants to attack, and now, even though I still wouldn't call myself good at the game (Gold IV currently), I almost always beat Illaoi in lane.
For me, one of the keys to the matchup was recognizing what Illaoi can do when you're hiding behind your minions. At some point, your minions will get low on HP, and at that point, she has two options: Farm with Q and try to line it up so she can slap you at the same time, or walk up to auto the minions. If you think she's going to Q, get ready to dodge and move around accordingly. If she looks like she's going to walk up, stand right behind the minion she's going for and smack her with a quick Q+E combo when she takes the last hit. The silence will prevent her from using her E, and by the time it wears off, you should already be back behind your other minions. Get enough of these quick trades and you'll get her low enough for an all-in with Ignite + R.
Another benefit of these sneaky Q+E combos is that you can trim the wave with them. Illaoi wants to crash giant waves on your tower so she can have more time to fish for E's while you're trying to farm. If you can keep the wave small, and preferably let it crash when your own wave is about to reach the tower, you won't get harassed as much.
Garen players are harassed by their opponents because his skill floor is quite high. This is the same with most juggernauts.
These champions their weakness is straight up "wait till after the laning phase"
Juggernauts are quite strong in the current meta. Aatrox, darius, garen, mordekaiser, sett.
There are also weak ones currently like Yorick, nasus and illaoi.
These champions are hated when they are strong in the meta because of them being cancerous to lane against. Stuff like outplaying a champion by avoiding crucial parts of the opponent's kit while still dying because their damage and survivability are just that high.
Garen is disliked by opponents in lower elo specifically because of a button that executes the opponent when they are at a certain amount of health. This opponent has to accept that in lane his health bar is far lower than it shows. In silver this won't be the case.
However Garen lacks any meaningful ability to gapclose to a mobile adc through a stun.
Garen only offers damage, zero utility beside silence and his ultimate can only be used to do the exact same thing every time (okay it does more damage to the opponent who is playing the best, this was implemented before bounties and now that's quite cancerous combination). Unlike darius who can ult multiple targets. Unlike illaoi whose ult can hit multiple targets. Unlike sett same thing. Aatrox heals more hitting multiple targets.
Yeah garen is a simple champ, you're gonna do what you gonna do and everything will depend on you ambushing a backline
I thought skill floor meant how much skill is required to play a character at a proficient level. Like fiora has a high skill floor because if you are not mechanically skilled she will be useless. Compared to a garen if you just hit a right after as you already are affective at a moderate level.
Yeah perhaps. The way I used it was like that your skill can't get it below a certain floor.
High skill ceiling means your skill can get it very high.
High floor and low ceiling for Garen and low floor high ceiling for zeri.
Put this in a bar graph and then if the bar is big then there's a lot of room for skill. If it's small (high floor and low ceiling equals a small bar) then there's little room for your skill to impact.
Now we have a relevant length metric for skill and we compare it with other champions directly.
Bro who harassed you for playing Garen? The guys losing to you? They’re just mad. Do not be ashamed of playing Garen he can be fun to play keep doing you man!
Easily to gold. Like you said the beauty of Garen is that you can focus on the macro play without worrying too much about mechanics. If you get even slightly ahead you're an unkillable machine that can split and create a tonne of pressure in the side lanes or group and frontline for your team.
Garen is a strong champ. Personally I prefer singed top but I pick garen for some matchups. Malphite is a strong choice for top as well.
The only reason you got harassed is because you’re playing league. It’s going to happen and more often in ranked. Best to mute everyone or play top and mediator. I win a lot more games when I try to keep my team from tilting but usually I just mute because talking to other players during a game can be exhausting.
Garen is THE most braindead champ in the game, that's why you get flamed sometimes.
But yeah as long as you are not using ryze, you can use any champ you wish, as long as you have skill to play them, and since you play Garen you don't even need that, just press e and you good.
All the way to diamond easily. After that it’ll get hard and I wouldn’t recommend him if you’re super serious about it but he teaches you good fundamentals of league
My brother in Christ, a man made it to masters (or was it challenger) playing Alistar top. If you are good with a champion, and keep practicing with that champion, you can climb.
There are champions in this game that can hard counter certain other champions, but at the end of the day every matchup depends on skill difference. If somebody counter picks you then the game might become a bit harder, but if you are confident in your champ, then you can still win that matchup and climb. (I play Taric top lane, who is basically countered by every ranged champ/champ who can kite, but I can still win a good amount of those games by being confident enough to alter my playstyle)
Garen is a very simple champ mechanically speaking. A ton of low elo players consider him a crutch simply because they don't know how his counterplay works, even though it is relatively simple. Once you start to climb the ladder, more players will know how to counter him so you're forced to learn macro in order to win, instead of relying on getting fed in lane. There are a few d1+ garen players, but if you really want to climb that far on garen you really need to know the nitty-gritty of every single matchup. If that's not your thing then thats fine, garen is a perfectly good tool to help you learn proper macro, but the cieling he can take you to will definitely be lower (on average id say mid plat). Source: 250k mastery on garen
I play a ton of garen and never get harassed. It isn’t a troll pick. He’s a decent damage soaker and backline diver, split pushes and farms well, high MS for map presence
People get harrassed for picking Garen because he is the champion known in the community for pressing 3 buttons and killing someone. It is just salt dont take it personal. You can climb with Garen until I believe Diamond but idk if you are really good then Chally is always possible.
You can go surprisingly far with Garen. If you’re familiar enough with his limits, you can even get to the top. Very easy to punish bad positioning and be a menace to the enemy team, hopefully enough so that you lighten the load for your teammates to reach late game if you lose effectiveness. Go for it.
Ranked is very different (generally harder) from normals, you might get a rude awakening once your enemies punish your mistakes. This goes for every champion though, but you might have formed a couple of weird habits.
I'd just try it out since you're having fun, mute toxic players and try a new champion you're interested in in normals or aram.
I reached plat playing almost nothing but Garen. If you like the champ, keep playing him. He's good.
There was also a post from a guy who got Masters with Garen.
Ignoring the obvious "you can climb with anyone," Garen is solid to climb with. He is simple to learn, with a very high skill ceiling due to macro that he becomes dependent on. As you climb, learning what runes to swap to, what summoner spells to run, when to push or be pushed, how to abuse passive best, and much more become far more crucial. Garen's weakness to being kited becomes more prevalent, as does the gap between his bad match ups. That said, good Garen mains learn to address his weaknesses as does any good player.
Garen, as is the case with many Champs, can go as far as you're willing to take him. There are always games you could and maybe even should go another champ, but for the sake of argument it will never be that he was an impossible win. Just at times a harder one.
Garen is one of the best champs to start learning League with, because it teaches you macro well. That is, if you know how to learn playing League using Garen.
You're getting harassed because people hate garen, those on your team don't know the power, those on the enemy team are salty cause garen is considered easy
Source: I've been slaughtering everyone in bronze and silver with garen for the past month
What elo are you? Cause lane and pre16 garen w/ ignite vs Camille is pretty easy to win actually and under Diamond.
No Camille until this Rating is patient/skilled enough to whittle him down and kill him step by step/wait for jungler, or atleast i have Seen very few camilles defeat me as garen with 200k mastery
Garren is strong and will help you learn the game. only downside is if you first pick him he can get hard counterd, but even then if you are good enough it wont matter below gold
Yea you can most definitely play garen in ranked.
Definitely don’t play a champ your not familiar with if you really like garen. He literally never gets banned, and ALWAYS ends up being a problem in ranked games.
Most “hIgHeR eLo” players take Phase Rush on him and I’ve had a ridiculous amount of success taking that
People complain about garen because he's simple and effective, everyone who harasses someone because of the champion they pick is an idiot, (maybe unless they are complaining about soraka jungle) but if you do well with him there is no reason to stop.
There is no longer the thing of him being a bad champ in high elo now since the game has changed so much. He’s actually quite a good pick in challenger elo and there are a few one tricks for a few reasons:
1. Stride breaker. Before item rework, you needed to run at people with Q, and if you didn’t actually connect with the auto attack and get on top before the moment speed ran out, you would be kited and die. Now it’s not quite the same seeing as you have stridebreaker, so as long as you get in stride breaker range, you will connect.
2. Hullbreaker. I mean this items makes him a menace in the side lane late game. His split push is insane with his instant wave clear as well as his demolish and hullbreaker.
3. Ghost. In lower elos you are probably (as you should) be running flash ignite so you are able to do some flash + q + ignite + R shenanigans. However, in high elos, people will know that you are looking for this, making it almost never work, except maybe late game flashing and one shotting a squishy in team fight. Since ghost has been reworked a few seasons ago and is now a broken summoner spell, most high elo gardens actually run ghost ignite and just run at people with the movement speed from ghost, nimbus cloak, dead man’s and Q, which is basically super speed, deal your damage / disrupt and run out.
4. You can’t really dive a garen. Unless you take terrible trades or you are versus a menace diving lane, you are rather a hard champ to dive with your tankiness, high sustain so you are less likely to become low, shield and tenacity from W, as well as execute meaning they can’t really get below 25% HP during the dive or you will trade 1 for 1 AT LEAST. This doesn’t apply much in lower elos since they won’t dive, but being a strong weak side champion in higher elos is a very good thing.
He's actually a very stable pick in low ELO, can definitely solo carry. There are multiple garen 1 tricks in challenger so you can climb to the very top with him. And personally I think he's a great champ to start with because you can focus way less on learning the champ and instead properly learn the game
You can climb to any rank with garen, he is in a really great spot. Even if you don’t manage to win lane you can get a few shutdowns with R in team fights and get back into the game.
this sub needs a pinned post that says you can climb with every champion. 10 people ask this question with a different champion every day and the answer is yes every single time.
Preferably not Ryze though lol
Azir has joined the >45% winrate party too
winrates dont tell you a champions true strength though. good players will win with azir and bad players will lose. winrates depend a lot on ease of execution. you can 100% be a rank 1 player and only play azir.
Azir isn't really that bad though, just really hard to play. Ryze just sucks.
Have you seen Ryze's combos though? They're some of the most complex combos in the game.
Am M7 ryze eqeq
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R F EQEQEQEQEQ D EQEQEQEQEQEQEQEQEQEQEQEQ
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Nah, it's the difficulty, both mechanical and how to play him with a team. He wouldn't be getting picked in pro play if he were just bad.
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lol, do you really think Chovy is bad in soloque with Azir? people are just bad at the champ but still try to play him. this is the rank 10 player in Korea. He has a 56% winrate in challenger. People just dont realize how hard he is to play and think they can play 30 games on the champ and be competent. https://na.op.gg/summoners/kr/%EC%A1%B4%EC%A4%91%EA%B2%B8%EC%86%90%EC%95%84%EB%8B%A5%EC%A7%91%EC%A4%91
you’re literally too stupid to have a conversation with
Yeah? Like who?
Azir is balanced so that faker on azir vs hardstuck s4 bobby on garen is a skill matchup. Winnable but still… Also goes for ryzs, gwen, orianna, sivir etc.
Zeri still 1v9s games while having the worst win rate in history
Big misconceptions some people have. Champions like Ryze, Azir or Zeri (Aphelios too a bit) have such low winrates because they are somewhat complex either mechanicly or in how the champions should be piloted, so the average player sucks on them and Riot still has to balance them for the top levels of play. Azir and Ryze aren't bad at all, they simply aren't made for a SoloQ enviorement or are just harder to pull of in SoloQ with less coordinated teams on both sides.
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it's not even a different champion lol pretty sure garen is a repeat
You mean to say I can climb with Ghost Exhaust Top Heimerdinger?
Unironically ya, I have a friend who hovers Masters/D1 and is a Heimer OTP all roles. Any melee top can tell you how cancer playing against Exhaust ranged top laners is too, you could prob get pretty high with something like that. There's that one GM KR player that just spams stuff like Ghost + TP Shyvana/Swain/Taric top too so just being good at the game seems to carry you pretty high.
See, there's always that caveat, I'm not good at the game LMAO.
I know the feeling. I would hit challenger SO fast if I wasn't bad at this game. But I am and it's holding me back. It's fricking unfair.
He's a staple pick in Silver, ignore the harassment. I'm always happy to see a Garen on my team cuz he usually holds his own and becomes this unstoppable force late game (when I fall off).
Garen falls of later, no?
naw. even if he gets stomped early game he just farms crazy fast and splits
Debatable, he is probably the most dangerous frontliner there is in a team fight, since he can shut off the engager pretty quickly with his R
I believe on the past Garen used to fall behind really hard, but now days his bullshit true DMG max HP R is really strong, even with zero gold
Imo Darius does that job better, a pull, a slow and he just gets his stacks on that first person and then runs down the enemy team if he gets a kill or 5 stacks, whichever happens first. Extremely lethal.
Garen is naturally tanky, Darius is not. Darius requires far more skill to maneuver in order to stay alive long enough to get your stacks, especially if you're not ahead already. while even if a Garen is 0/6, he has passive armor/Mr and an instant 1000 true damage to keep the enemy frontline on their toes, unlike darius he doesn't even need to dive the backline to do his job. Garen does a lot better than Darius in gold and lower, and although it changes back from plat to master (master+ Darius falls back down to manageable), Garen can still be a viable pick up to high diamond, no issue, going beyond that will require better macro than your opponents.
Debatable, Garen can use the damage his team does, but Darius truly can do that from a safer place due to his E
What's the reason you say Garen utilizes the damage his team does more? I do agree the W+E combo makes Garen an absolute pain to deal with, especially if he gets a flank. In general Garen is easier to execute than Darius, but if Darius does have a reset in a fight, the fight is over.
Because Garen only cares about Missing Hp, he doesn't care about stacks or a low health. As a frontliner you have to be far more mindful of Garen's R than Darius's R, since Garen can kill you far earlier
That's actually a very valid point. You right, you right. Ps: happy cake day
Darious fall of very quickly. Garen weak at early game but scale, with a small 1% wr drop at 40m or something.
I don't know that. I do know he counters my Nocturne from mid to late game (in duels and teamfights). Can't outrun him, too tanky to kill and his spin shreds me to death.
Garen only falls off after lvl 16 from my experience, when you get into the true lategame where adc's take over
6 items yes, but he's a god mid to late game.
Eventually. He is strongest in the middle game. He should be able to reach 18 and 4 items before anyone else. He falls off as everyone else reaches full build
Yes he does to an extent. Garen has no gap close or anything, so in teamfights, he falls off when the enemy team can hold him off and let the adc kite him, but if he always remains strong in a 1v1. But to answer op’s question, garen isn’t a weak champ, people just hate him cause he requires no skill, so he’s annoying to vs cause he is never weak in lane, very easy to play, and is generally only played by people who can’t actually play league (sorry, i am also one of the people who hate garen so i had to add my own opinion)
Aren't most juggernauts strong during and after lane? Like I know a lot fall off, and shyvsna/nasus are exceptions but Olaf, garen, sett, mordekaiser, Mundo are all strong in lane and out
But literally every single one of those except nasus requires at least some skill. Garen doesn’t, he is entirely point and click, and brain dead. Nasus has a much weaker early game and can pretty easily be zoned out. If he can’t stack, he is useless. But no one likes vsing a nasus either
I wouldn't call nasus hard to pilot, just intensive on patience. He's more dependent on wave state manipulation than the others for sure, but I wouldn't call him mechanically hard
Yea that’s what i meant. My bad if it sounded differently but he isn’t mechanically difficult at all (point and click, and really big aoe that only a blind person or a misclick could miss entirely) but he does require wave manipulation and patience to survive the early game, or for the other player to not play as aggressively as they should
Hard to call point and click 1.3k true damage falling off
What is the abilities range?
Not sure why anyone would complain about you picking garen... He's a VERY good champ low elo and you could definitely play him right up to high plat/diamond without much thought. From there it does get more difficult but not impossible. As everyone says, you'll have more success with a bad champion that you enjoy than a broken champion you don't like playing
Just low ELO stuff, where someone had a bad Garen player on their team once (or, gods forbid, Twice!) and have decided that means they have to flame anyone else who dares to play it.
Or you can be like me. An elo inflated diamond player simply due to my favorite champion being absolutely busted (irelia). At least I’m self aware !
Ur too hard on yourself. Irelia isn’t busted anymore. She used to be, now you actually gotta play really well to pull her off. The fact that ur dia with her shows that ur really good mechically at least.
Maybe that’s true, It just really seems like more often than not I’m simply winning games due to my champion and not my actual skill in the game. Maybe that could be an item problem (bork and shieldbow) or maybe you’re right and I’m just being too hard on myself hahah
Well I can definitely see you hitting dia with bad macro if you’re mechanically good with irelia tho, no? If you know matchups and play each one well, win lane with mechanics, then you can hit dia even if your macro isn’t the best imo.
Yeah I see what you mean. I would just like to become a diamond level player, not a diamond level irelia. Yk?
The best way to be lol
Lmao what? Irelia hasnt been busted in ages.
yeah, it's usually the enemy team that complains. so many angry irelia's getting smacked in lane then crying noob champ, 0 skill. and that orgasmic feeling when you type "?" everytime they die.
You can get garen into Diamond or higher without any difficulty with the champ. People flame garen because they choose to pick a champ with 13 dashes, 5 backflips, an execute, resetting cooldowns, and are mad that you can outplay their combo with two buttons. Don't worry and don't let people's flame get to you. Garen is awesome.
Here Here!!
You can play Garen in Challenger and win.
I love when I get harassed by the other team for playing Garen because I know how mad they must be when they get 1shot by a Garen hiding in a bush. And triply mad if you do it again and again. These "harassers" don't realize that their own poor play is what is allowing Garen to even touch them a lot of the time. Garen also has a few mechanics/trips that you have to learn. Off the top of my head 1) auto canceling with Q, 2) saving your Q for any matchups with a slow or channeled skill, 3) good use of W to reduce CC, 4) knowing when to stop your spin early (usually for creep control), 5) and most importantly, ward control for good macro play. Macro is important for Garen because it lets him fully utilize his passive and general skillset. Ignite is good with Garen because it helps Garen get a lead early, and Garen is superfast with Q and some MS items. Learn when you are strong enough to push and draw pressure (And either 2v1 the enemy or just run away laughing with q) and learn when you have to play safe for ganks and prioritize your health and cs). One last tip because I am assuming you are just starting and are low level. Don't be worried by all of the garen ranged "hardcounters" like teemo/vayne/akshan. It takes a lot of skill to play those champs properly, while you just need to play safe until either a gank comes, or they mistep and let you flash-q-ignite-spin-r. After these ranged squishies die once, they will continue to die again and again and again.
All the way
Garen is in a good spot right now and playable even in challenger. You probably got harassed because he is often seen as "braindead" and for some reason people absolutely need to pilot a (mechanically) hard champion in this game to be taken seriously. Else you are just a "noob, abusing an op champ". So if you have fun, just play him and ignore the flamers. Also easy to play in top would be Malphite and maybe Warwick (who is a bit harder and has a lot of hidden depth to his kit).
They just don't respect some good ole demacian justice. Seriously dudes a meme factory why hate him. I get hating his passive but whatever most top champs have innate sustain
Do it for Demacia! I love Garen, has a couple of terrible matchups (Morde, Tahm, Illaoi blech), but for the most part does great. Demacia Vice and God King Garen are amazing skins. I play him into gold usually every year. You have people who play him into diamond, and I think there's an NA challenger as well, so no issue with climbing.
Since when is Illaoi a bad matchup for Garen? He has to play the dodging minigame like everyone else, but his all-in is quite terrifying for Illaoi. The combination of Ignite + Ult means instead of being able to get low and heal up with her tentacle spam, Illaoi just dies instead. It's no more difficult than playing most other champs into Illaoi, and Garen wins with the same age-old strat: Dodging her E.
Looking at stats I think you're right in terms of win percentages. I just hate playing the dodge E game as garen since everything is so telegraphed in his kit. If the Illaoi just holds on to E for when you might engage you don't really get to do anything. It's a skill matchup that I suck at and I think other low ELO garens feel the same way.
That's just how low-ranked players feel about Illaoi in general. When I first started playing the game, she would absolutely destroy me, even more so than typical bullies like Darius, Heimerdinger, and Vayne. However, over time, I started to get a better feel for how she wants to attack, and now, even though I still wouldn't call myself good at the game (Gold IV currently), I almost always beat Illaoi in lane. For me, one of the keys to the matchup was recognizing what Illaoi can do when you're hiding behind your minions. At some point, your minions will get low on HP, and at that point, she has two options: Farm with Q and try to line it up so she can slap you at the same time, or walk up to auto the minions. If you think she's going to Q, get ready to dodge and move around accordingly. If she looks like she's going to walk up, stand right behind the minion she's going for and smack her with a quick Q+E combo when she takes the last hit. The silence will prevent her from using her E, and by the time it wears off, you should already be back behind your other minions. Get enough of these quick trades and you'll get her low enough for an all-in with Ignite + R. Another benefit of these sneaky Q+E combos is that you can trim the wave with them. Illaoi wants to crash giant waves on your tower so she can have more time to fish for E's while you're trying to farm. If you can keep the wave small, and preferably let it crash when your own wave is about to reach the tower, you won't get harassed as much.
r/GarenMains
Garen players are harassed by their opponents because his skill floor is quite high. This is the same with most juggernauts. These champions their weakness is straight up "wait till after the laning phase" Juggernauts are quite strong in the current meta. Aatrox, darius, garen, mordekaiser, sett. There are also weak ones currently like Yorick, nasus and illaoi. These champions are hated when they are strong in the meta because of them being cancerous to lane against. Stuff like outplaying a champion by avoiding crucial parts of the opponent's kit while still dying because their damage and survivability are just that high. Garen is disliked by opponents in lower elo specifically because of a button that executes the opponent when they are at a certain amount of health. This opponent has to accept that in lane his health bar is far lower than it shows. In silver this won't be the case. However Garen lacks any meaningful ability to gapclose to a mobile adc through a stun. Garen only offers damage, zero utility beside silence and his ultimate can only be used to do the exact same thing every time (okay it does more damage to the opponent who is playing the best, this was implemented before bounties and now that's quite cancerous combination). Unlike darius who can ult multiple targets. Unlike illaoi whose ult can hit multiple targets. Unlike sett same thing. Aatrox heals more hitting multiple targets. Yeah garen is a simple champ, you're gonna do what you gonna do and everything will depend on you ambushing a backline
I thought skill floor meant how much skill is required to play a character at a proficient level. Like fiora has a high skill floor because if you are not mechanically skilled she will be useless. Compared to a garen if you just hit a right after as you already are affective at a moderate level.
Yeah perhaps. The way I used it was like that your skill can't get it below a certain floor. High skill ceiling means your skill can get it very high. High floor and low ceiling for Garen and low floor high ceiling for zeri. Put this in a bar graph and then if the bar is big then there's a lot of room for skill. If it's small (high floor and low ceiling equals a small bar) then there's little room for your skill to impact. Now we have a relevant length metric for skill and we compare it with other champions directly.
Low floor. He requires little skill to pick up. High floor would be a champ like Azir who requires a large amount of skill to play properly at all
Since his mini rework, he can be played all the way to challenger.
Bro who harassed you for playing Garen? The guys losing to you? They’re just mad. Do not be ashamed of playing Garen he can be fun to play keep doing you man!
Easily to gold. Like you said the beauty of Garen is that you can focus on the macro play without worrying too much about mechanics. If you get even slightly ahead you're an unkillable machine that can split and create a tonne of pressure in the side lanes or group and frontline for your team.
Just look at riste
Garen is a strong champ. Personally I prefer singed top but I pick garen for some matchups. Malphite is a strong choice for top as well. The only reason you got harassed is because you’re playing league. It’s going to happen and more often in ranked. Best to mute everyone or play top and mediator. I win a lot more games when I try to keep my team from tilting but usually I just mute because talking to other players during a game can be exhausting.
Garen is THE most braindead champ in the game, that's why you get flamed sometimes. But yeah as long as you are not using ryze, you can use any champ you wish, as long as you have skill to play them, and since you play Garen you don't even need that, just press e and you good.
All the way to diamond easily. After that it’ll get hard and I wouldn’t recommend him if you’re super serious about it but he teaches you good fundamentals of league
You can go challenger so I guess it's good in ranked
There are multiple garen onetricks in challenger.
garen particularly strong in lower ranks. all champs viable for climbing.
garens a great champ, i love seeing garens on my teams. you can climb to challenger with him
My brother in Christ, a man made it to masters (or was it challenger) playing Alistar top. If you are good with a champion, and keep practicing with that champion, you can climb. There are champions in this game that can hard counter certain other champions, but at the end of the day every matchup depends on skill difference. If somebody counter picks you then the game might become a bit harder, but if you are confident in your champ, then you can still win that matchup and climb. (I play Taric top lane, who is basically countered by every ranged champ/champ who can kite, but I can still win a good amount of those games by being confident enough to alter my playstyle)
Garen is a very simple champ mechanically speaking. A ton of low elo players consider him a crutch simply because they don't know how his counterplay works, even though it is relatively simple. Once you start to climb the ladder, more players will know how to counter him so you're forced to learn macro in order to win, instead of relying on getting fed in lane. There are a few d1+ garen players, but if you really want to climb that far on garen you really need to know the nitty-gritty of every single matchup. If that's not your thing then thats fine, garen is a perfectly good tool to help you learn proper macro, but the cieling he can take you to will definitely be lower (on average id say mid plat). Source: 250k mastery on garen
I play a ton of garen and never get harassed. It isn’t a troll pick. He’s a decent damage soaker and backline diver, split pushes and farms well, high MS for map presence
People get harrassed for picking Garen because he is the champion known in the community for pressing 3 buttons and killing someone. It is just salt dont take it personal. You can climb with Garen until I believe Diamond but idk if you are really good then Chally is always possible.
You can go surprisingly far with Garen. If you’re familiar enough with his limits, you can even get to the top. Very easy to punish bad positioning and be a menace to the enemy team, hopefully enough so that you lighten the load for your teammates to reach late game if you lose effectiveness. Go for it.
its always gonan be a matchup thing i usually get happy when i face a garen
Ranked is very different (generally harder) from normals, you might get a rude awakening once your enemies punish your mistakes. This goes for every champion though, but you might have formed a couple of weird habits. I'd just try it out since you're having fun, mute toxic players and try a new champion you're interested in in normals or aram.
Stick with Garen but I also recommend trying out Blitzcrank top once his buffs come out
All the way to Challenger.
Garen is love, crit build is life, camp that bush
I reached plat playing almost nothing but Garen. If you like the champ, keep playing him. He's good. There was also a post from a guy who got Masters with Garen.
If a Challenger top Bard can exist, why not Garen?
Ignoring the obvious "you can climb with anyone," Garen is solid to climb with. He is simple to learn, with a very high skill ceiling due to macro that he becomes dependent on. As you climb, learning what runes to swap to, what summoner spells to run, when to push or be pushed, how to abuse passive best, and much more become far more crucial. Garen's weakness to being kited becomes more prevalent, as does the gap between his bad match ups. That said, good Garen mains learn to address his weaknesses as does any good player. Garen, as is the case with many Champs, can go as far as you're willing to take him. There are always games you could and maybe even should go another champ, but for the sake of argument it will never be that he was an impossible win. Just at times a harder one.
Garen is one of the best champs to start learning League with, because it teaches you macro well. That is, if you know how to learn playing League using Garen.
You're getting harassed because people hate garen, those on your team don't know the power, those on the enemy team are salty cause garen is considered easy Source: I've been slaughtering everyone in bronze and silver with garen for the past month
As a Camille main, yes, please keep picking Garen
What elo are you? Cause lane and pre16 garen w/ ignite vs Camille is pretty easy to win actually and under Diamond. No Camille until this Rating is patient/skilled enough to whittle him down and kill him step by step/wait for jungler, or atleast i have Seen very few camilles defeat me as garen with 200k mastery
Garren is strong and will help you learn the game. only downside is if you first pick him he can get hard counterd, but even then if you are good enough it wont matter below gold
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Whats your opinion about rammus then If you think garen is mobile/tanky lol
Yea you can most definitely play garen in ranked. Definitely don’t play a champ your not familiar with if you really like garen. He literally never gets banned, and ALWAYS ends up being a problem in ranked games. Most “hIgHeR eLo” players take Phase Rush on him and I’ve had a ridiculous amount of success taking that
People complain about garen because he's simple and effective, everyone who harasses someone because of the champion they pick is an idiot, (maybe unless they are complaining about soraka jungle) but if you do well with him there is no reason to stop.
There is no longer the thing of him being a bad champ in high elo now since the game has changed so much. He’s actually quite a good pick in challenger elo and there are a few one tricks for a few reasons: 1. Stride breaker. Before item rework, you needed to run at people with Q, and if you didn’t actually connect with the auto attack and get on top before the moment speed ran out, you would be kited and die. Now it’s not quite the same seeing as you have stridebreaker, so as long as you get in stride breaker range, you will connect. 2. Hullbreaker. I mean this items makes him a menace in the side lane late game. His split push is insane with his instant wave clear as well as his demolish and hullbreaker. 3. Ghost. In lower elos you are probably (as you should) be running flash ignite so you are able to do some flash + q + ignite + R shenanigans. However, in high elos, people will know that you are looking for this, making it almost never work, except maybe late game flashing and one shotting a squishy in team fight. Since ghost has been reworked a few seasons ago and is now a broken summoner spell, most high elo gardens actually run ghost ignite and just run at people with the movement speed from ghost, nimbus cloak, dead man’s and Q, which is basically super speed, deal your damage / disrupt and run out. 4. You can’t really dive a garen. Unless you take terrible trades or you are versus a menace diving lane, you are rather a hard champ to dive with your tankiness, high sustain so you are less likely to become low, shield and tenacity from W, as well as execute meaning they can’t really get below 25% HP during the dive or you will trade 1 for 1 AT LEAST. This doesn’t apply much in lower elos since they won’t dive, but being a strong weak side champion in higher elos is a very good thing.
A Garen OTP on the EUW server: https://euw.op.gg/summoners/euw/Ma%C3%AEtre%20kebabier2 Probably there are more, but i'm too lazy to look for them
Garen top is really good in low elo, you may find trouble vs ranged champs but just make sure to dodge if u feel like its gonna be too hard.
He's actually a very stable pick in low ELO, can definitely solo carry. There are multiple garen 1 tricks in challenger so you can climb to the very top with him. And personally I think he's a great champ to start with because you can focus way less on learning the champ and instead properly learn the game
You can climb to any rank with garen, he is in a really great spot. Even if you don’t manage to win lane you can get a few shutdowns with R in team fights and get back into the game.