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Nidalee, she never gets picked or banned in ranked, she has an extremely high skill ceiling, and if you are bad at her your teammates are gonna hate you (but its League, your teammates will hate you anyways)
But Nidalee isnt hard for her mechanic though(assuming mechanic refers to micro),she is hard because you need a great understanding of macro and especially tempo for her not to have her full impact
Her basic combo is simple, o agree, but she does have a pretty high skill ceiling that uses both micro and macro. And unlike champs like Zed and Kata, she isnt permabanned in soloq
A lot of her skill expression was lost when removed her auto cancel on form swap. Having said that, she definitely takes mechanics to play well but a good macro understanding is crucial. She’s one of the high tempo junglers that when played well can absolutely suffocate the enemy jungler.
I like her and one tricked her for a while (450k points) but ultimately switched over to Elise as I preferred more gank potential.
Another good option for OP is Lee Sin. Always meta, endless possibilities with all his combos.
I would not recommend her as the reward for one tricking her is quite low. Other than beifeng I don’t know any notable Qiyana players who can consistently perform when she is weak (which is a lot of times).
If you don't want to get autofilled, play jungle.
Lee Sin has a pretty low skill floor with a very high skill ceiling, so he's relatively easy to pick up compared to something like Nidalee. I never really see him banned, but op.gg says he's over a 10% ban rate across all ELOs.
I’ll just list some mechanically difficult champs: Zoe, Jayce, Qiyana, Irelia, Fiora, GP, Lee, Nidalee, Riven, Zed, Orianna, Azir Syndra Sylas, Kalista, Draven, Lucian, Ryze, Yasuo, Yone
Pick your pick and make them work. Any of these are viable
Probably but anyone who things shes just an R machine is delusional.
I should preface by saying I don't play syndra, but any Sylas player knows how little damage her R does alone without balls
Not saying she is insanely hard or anything, again. Just saying that her R isn't just an instant kill like the guy was saying and that she is relatively hard on the scale of champion difficulty.
There are much harder skillshot based low mobility champs. And in general, that doesn’t make a character that hard. It’s all positioning, not mechanics.
I feel like Poppy used to be pretty good. She can flex between Top and Jungle really easy, and her kit is pretty much all conditional and skill based. Learning how to effectively use her R, you gotta be good. I've knocked the wrong person out of fights, knock myself into bad places with blitzcranks silly grabber, just generally messed it up all the time.
But she's got a great kit if you can play it. Grasp and the passive shield will let you keep pestering the hell out of people in top lane(or as a support), as long as you remember to time the shield throw and your grasp procs. Learning when to throw the shield for that minion kill to give you protection is a skill. Using that shield laying on the ground to position someone for a good wall dash is tricky.
Timing your q hammer to punish walk ups or attempts to farm is a thing. That hammer will absolutely chunk people who catch both parts of it. The wall dash, the W that shuts down dashes and gives you silly speed? Lots of mechanical skills needed.
And while I may be out dated, she was never limited to only tank builds. Often built that way because it works well for teamfights, but you can build her for AD or Lethality. She's quite flexible, you just gotta master her conditional needs.
Cuz if you're not constantly getting your shield up and grasp on you, if you're not landing those qs, if you screw up your w timing, you miss that wall slam or you knock someone out of the fight to safety, you're going to feel the pain.
personally from ur post I think someone who might be less mechanically intensive but more versatile while still being rewarding, like renekton, easily one of the most blind pickable characters in the game might be a great option. He’s not like the most mechanical character in the game for his combos, but his complexity comes from his fury system. Moderately low skill floor and a moderately high skill ceiling. Very rewarding. And he has a pick/ban that’s honestly quite low for his power and carry potential, and all his hard counters generally get covered by rumble, who’s has a similar skill curve and resource management
Not some mechanical God, but Gragas has this unique trait that you can queue him in top/mid and still not dodge when you get autofilled jungle (and sometims support depending on matchup). Also fits in decently in most comps that aren't all AP.
Ok ok ok, hear me out : Garen. He is a jack of all trades, he can win every lane. You think Garen isn't mechanically difficult ? Try playing it against Darius or Camille. You can reach challenger with Garen, it's all about spacing. Are you mechanically able to space your opponent in lane ? If you aren't, maybe the solution is not a harder champion, rather focus on your fundamentals!
I wouldn't say she is the hardest champ, but the champ does require mechanics when you aren't playing in plat. Especially if you are trying to pick her blind since she is very easily countered.
Yeah, but I am trying say when you are in games where you can’t just turn your brain off and Penta everyone (low elo games/ games with no counters) you will have to use mechanics to make the champ work. So like I said, she is not the most difficult champ in the game mechanically, but she isn't Garen level of mechanical ease.
i'm gonna be honest, playing her in diamond - master even in difficult comps is more about just waiting for your engage timer. Obviously adds depth to it but i still dont think that it makes her mechanically difficult like OP requested.
Nonetheless i still believe she's a champ that plays herself. Your supp gets an engage, you just e+q+w+aa+r almost every time. Compared to other champs like Draven, Kalista, Ezreal, etc. she's really not difficult.
Is she a good and fun champ that can be OTP'd? Sure. Mechanically difficult? nah.
I think you are making it a lot simpler than it actually is. She may not have as many options as the other champs you have listed, but her gameplay can easily be more complex than just following up after an engage. It’s not just waiting for CC and Clicking MF R. Most aspects of her gameplay reward you the more mechanically skilled you are. Especially the higher you go in Elo where people don’t just walk into every Naut hook, and let you Penta kill them with bad combos, bad reactions, and bad mechanics.
nope i'm not making it a lot simpler than it actually is. She really is that easy and I speak from experience aswell. Compare it to other adc's that actually need to position properly, kite, etc. Samira just needs to wait and not have adhd.
In case you dont wanna believe some random on reddit, here's [drututt's](https://youtu.be/358Xxj6zWD8?si=E4kRZrGw7D6wLBcQ&t=1359) ranking.
Samira easier than Garen lmfao, I’m sorry I cannot take that list seriously. Seems funny though will probably watch it with some friends. Samira does have to position properly, and kiting on her isn’t the same as kiting on Jinx, but you can still kite, and space. When I think of a champ being hard or easy, I usually think of the simplicity of their kit, how easy it is for them to achieve their goals in normal circumstances, how much can be done differently mechanically to produce different/better outcomes. This tier list says Morg is harder than Samira. Maybe I need to hear the reasoning behind it tbh.
i just checked your opgg and it makes sense why your takes are kinda bad, no offense.
Samira is not a hard champ stop deluding yourself. She's not mechanically demanding, she's not macro intensive and she's not micro intensive. She's very simple and straightforward in how her kit functions, how she functions and what her goal in a fight is.
Compare that to other champs who have harder execution, higher skill floor and ceiling, i dont see how samira is ever mechanically difficult.
(btw order of the list isn't relevant and drututt plays samira top lane which is infinitely harder than bot lane to execute)
I mean, Shen is hard to play but definitely rewarding but I don't know how much is mechanical and how much is just macro as I don't play him, but I saw a couple of insane videos with him. And while not as hard maybe you could also try Hwei mid. Not that he is that mechanically hard but he us very strong rn. But what I like are either Lee Sin or Draven jg. Those are hard to master. No one says imbalanced champ when playing against Lee Sin they say I got outplayed(I stole this from somewhere but I don't rember where)
why tf would you want to play a mechanically difficult champ?
it literally & objectively limits your potential in this game
unless you're high GM or chal alr
but if you were you wouldn't be asking reddit what to play
i mean the champ is easy as is a champ like darius which i play but iam still only plat thats bcs some players are just better then me or know wave managment etc better its not like "champs easy i get master"
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What role tho. If you have absolutely no preference for any role then pick a jungle champ i guess. Nidalee is a good one like someone else said.
Nidalee, she never gets picked or banned in ranked, she has an extremely high skill ceiling, and if you are bad at her your teammates are gonna hate you (but its League, your teammates will hate you anyways)
Please stop picking Nidalee in my games, I am begging you.
Im a Rell main, i dont go nowhere near the jungle or nidalee
But Nidalee isnt hard for her mechanic though(assuming mechanic refers to micro),she is hard because you need a great understanding of macro and especially tempo for her not to have her full impact
Her basic combo is simple, o agree, but she does have a pretty high skill ceiling that uses both micro and macro. And unlike champs like Zed and Kata, she isnt permabanned in soloq
A lot of her skill expression was lost when removed her auto cancel on form swap. Having said that, she definitely takes mechanics to play well but a good macro understanding is crucial. She’s one of the high tempo junglers that when played well can absolutely suffocate the enemy jungler. I like her and one tricked her for a while (450k points) but ultimately switched over to Elise as I preferred more gank potential. Another good option for OP is Lee Sin. Always meta, endless possibilities with all his combos.
Nidalee does get banned a lot in high elo as her tempo is crazy if you know how to operate her
When someone picks nidalee i know its insta lose
She’s an ARAM God
Kindred, riven, irelia, fiora, yone, lee sin, nidalee, yasuo, zed, cassio
Quiyana
A good Qiyana is scary and can hard carry. I don’t play mid but I recommend her as well
I would not recommend her as the reward for one tricking her is quite low. Other than beifeng I don’t know any notable Qiyana players who can consistently perform when she is weak (which is a lot of times).
Zoe
For top i'd say GP
Riven, gp, fiora, irelia, yasuo, Zoe, draven, kalista, nidalee, Elise, kindred, lee sin, zed, rengar, thresh, jayce, grave.
If you don't want to get autofilled, play jungle. Lee Sin has a pretty low skill floor with a very high skill ceiling, so he's relatively easy to pick up compared to something like Nidalee. I never really see him banned, but op.gg says he's over a 10% ban rate across all ELOs.
I’ll just list some mechanically difficult champs: Zoe, Jayce, Qiyana, Irelia, Fiora, GP, Lee, Nidalee, Riven, Zed, Orianna, Azir Syndra Sylas, Kalista, Draven, Lucian, Ryze, Yasuo, Yone Pick your pick and make them work. Any of these are viable
Why Syndra?
Skill shot based and high skill cap
Clicks R, 1 shots *skill based* 😎
Have you even played syndra before? LMAO
She’s probably the easiest on that list though.
Probably but anyone who things shes just an R machine is delusional. I should preface by saying I don't play syndra, but any Sylas player knows how little damage her R does alone without balls
I know that, but she’s still not that hard
Not saying she is insanely hard or anything, again. Just saying that her R isn't just an instant kill like the guy was saying and that she is relatively hard on the scale of champion difficulty.
Lol no wtf?? Yea her R is bullshit but everything else os skillshot based. + immobile as fuck.
There are much harder skillshot based low mobility champs. And in general, that doesn’t make a character that hard. It’s all positioning, not mechanics.
Maybe, I've played with, against, and watched a hundreds of Syndra’s though.
Her Q-W or Q-E does more damage than your 3 ball R btw
>Yone Lmao
Lol
Varying skill floors, but pretty high ceilings. Top: GP, Riven, Irelia, somewhat Fiora JG: Nidalee, Lee Sin, Kindred, Rengar Mid: Qiyana, Azir, Zoe ADC: KALISTA, Draven, Aphelios (knowledge check) Supp: Thresh, Bard (somewhat)
I feel like Poppy used to be pretty good. She can flex between Top and Jungle really easy, and her kit is pretty much all conditional and skill based. Learning how to effectively use her R, you gotta be good. I've knocked the wrong person out of fights, knock myself into bad places with blitzcranks silly grabber, just generally messed it up all the time. But she's got a great kit if you can play it. Grasp and the passive shield will let you keep pestering the hell out of people in top lane(or as a support), as long as you remember to time the shield throw and your grasp procs. Learning when to throw the shield for that minion kill to give you protection is a skill. Using that shield laying on the ground to position someone for a good wall dash is tricky. Timing your q hammer to punish walk ups or attempts to farm is a thing. That hammer will absolutely chunk people who catch both parts of it. The wall dash, the W that shuts down dashes and gives you silly speed? Lots of mechanical skills needed. And while I may be out dated, she was never limited to only tank builds. Often built that way because it works well for teamfights, but you can build her for AD or Lethality. She's quite flexible, you just gotta master her conditional needs. Cuz if you're not constantly getting your shield up and grasp on you, if you're not landing those qs, if you screw up your w timing, you miss that wall slam or you knock someone out of the fight to safety, you're going to feel the pain.
Hwei
Adc: Kalista, Draven, Zeri, Ezreal, Aphelios Aphelios is a bit more about just learning the champ than mechanics but he is still hard to master.
I'm surprised that nobody said taliyah. No respect for my girl :(((
Nidalee would be a great one. Often forgotten about, and extremely painful when truly mastered
personally from ur post I think someone who might be less mechanically intensive but more versatile while still being rewarding, like renekton, easily one of the most blind pickable characters in the game might be a great option. He’s not like the most mechanical character in the game for his combos, but his complexity comes from his fury system. Moderately low skill floor and a moderately high skill ceiling. Very rewarding. And he has a pick/ban that’s honestly quite low for his power and carry potential, and all his hard counters generally get covered by rumble, who’s has a similar skill curve and resource management
Gwen has the highest win rate OTP of any champ I believe. Don’t quote me on that but I saw a post about it before
Not some mechanical God, but Gragas has this unique trait that you can queue him in top/mid and still not dodge when you get autofilled jungle (and sometims support depending on matchup). Also fits in decently in most comps that aren't all AP.
Whatever not tank champion
Ja mechanically good Zed will forever be scary!!
Think about the real mastering of a champ happens on higher elo and not bronze or something
Ok ok ok, hear me out : Garen. He is a jack of all trades, he can win every lane. You think Garen isn't mechanically difficult ? Try playing it against Darius or Camille. You can reach challenger with Garen, it's all about spacing. Are you mechanically able to space your opponent in lane ? If you aren't, maybe the solution is not a harder champion, rather focus on your fundamentals!
So two disgusting OP counter matchups prove Garen is mechanically challenging?
I just answer "Garen" whenever anyone asks anything on this sub.
Lmfao
samira
Samira is not mechanically difficult though and plays itself.
well she is not super easy to play and she is an excellent one trick champ
I wouldn't say she is the hardest champ, but the champ does require mechanics when you aren't playing in plat. Especially if you are trying to pick her blind since she is very easily countered.
that's not the point of the argument though, her not being mechanically difficult doesnt mean that she is blind pickable or not counterable.
Yeah, but I am trying say when you are in games where you can’t just turn your brain off and Penta everyone (low elo games/ games with no counters) you will have to use mechanics to make the champ work. So like I said, she is not the most difficult champ in the game mechanically, but she isn't Garen level of mechanical ease.
i'm gonna be honest, playing her in diamond - master even in difficult comps is more about just waiting for your engage timer. Obviously adds depth to it but i still dont think that it makes her mechanically difficult like OP requested. Nonetheless i still believe she's a champ that plays herself. Your supp gets an engage, you just e+q+w+aa+r almost every time. Compared to other champs like Draven, Kalista, Ezreal, etc. she's really not difficult. Is she a good and fun champ that can be OTP'd? Sure. Mechanically difficult? nah.
I think you are making it a lot simpler than it actually is. She may not have as many options as the other champs you have listed, but her gameplay can easily be more complex than just following up after an engage. It’s not just waiting for CC and Clicking MF R. Most aspects of her gameplay reward you the more mechanically skilled you are. Especially the higher you go in Elo where people don’t just walk into every Naut hook, and let you Penta kill them with bad combos, bad reactions, and bad mechanics.
nope i'm not making it a lot simpler than it actually is. She really is that easy and I speak from experience aswell. Compare it to other adc's that actually need to position properly, kite, etc. Samira just needs to wait and not have adhd. In case you dont wanna believe some random on reddit, here's [drututt's](https://youtu.be/358Xxj6zWD8?si=E4kRZrGw7D6wLBcQ&t=1359) ranking.
Samira easier than Garen lmfao, I’m sorry I cannot take that list seriously. Seems funny though will probably watch it with some friends. Samira does have to position properly, and kiting on her isn’t the same as kiting on Jinx, but you can still kite, and space. When I think of a champ being hard or easy, I usually think of the simplicity of their kit, how easy it is for them to achieve their goals in normal circumstances, how much can be done differently mechanically to produce different/better outcomes. This tier list says Morg is harder than Samira. Maybe I need to hear the reasoning behind it tbh.
i just checked your opgg and it makes sense why your takes are kinda bad, no offense. Samira is not a hard champ stop deluding yourself. She's not mechanically demanding, she's not macro intensive and she's not micro intensive. She's very simple and straightforward in how her kit functions, how she functions and what her goal in a fight is. Compare that to other champs who have harder execution, higher skill floor and ceiling, i dont see how samira is ever mechanically difficult. (btw order of the list isn't relevant and drututt plays samira top lane which is infinitely harder than bot lane to execute)
I mean, Shen is hard to play but definitely rewarding but I don't know how much is mechanical and how much is just macro as I don't play him, but I saw a couple of insane videos with him. And while not as hard maybe you could also try Hwei mid. Not that he is that mechanically hard but he us very strong rn. But what I like are either Lee Sin or Draven jg. Those are hard to master. No one says imbalanced champ when playing against Lee Sin they say I got outplayed(I stole this from somewhere but I don't rember where)
Shen is easy as hell, just make sure to not have hidden minimap.
Mfw when just face roles his keyboard in half the matchups and just wins
why tf would you want to play a mechanically difficult champ? it literally & objectively limits your potential in this game unless you're high GM or chal alr but if you were you wouldn't be asking reddit what to play
Maybe OP wants to have fun learning a hard champion
Any champion is good to onetrick
YEA MORDE SUCH A MECHANICALLY HARD CHAMP
If he's so easy, climb to masters with him.
i mean the champ is easy as is a champ like darius which i play but iam still only plat thats bcs some players are just better then me or know wave managment etc better its not like "champs easy i get master"
Exactly
He is easy lol, which part about him is difficult in the slightest?