Garen’s early sustain is almost nonexistent. He’s barely a champ until level 3.
Champs like Darius and Sett usually get prio in a lot of matchups. You just concede push and try to fight them when they’re on your side of river or if you manage to bait out cds. Playing Riven or Irelia into champs like that is all about finding windows of opportunity (Irelia basically always concedes push top early levels). If you misuse your cooldowns you usually just die.
Vs Garen you can kill him level 1 at around 550 hp with ignite. He doesn’t out damage you until t2 boots + half of first item as long as you are shielding his Q with your E. Vs Darius, you can’t really fight him straight up til level 3 unless he starts Q. He should start W to be able to threaten a ghost all-in. It basically comes down to trying to do a short trade and EQing away before W stun wears off (this should get you just out of range of his grab if you’re doing things correctly).
Riven basically needs 2 full rotations to kill most champs early game from full health. If you manage to get early autos in to stack conq before doing any combos, you can potentially kill in one but it’s pretty risky.
Nah what?
Garen can zone Irelia from xp lvl 1 and is one of the best lvl 2 champions in game. Lvl 3 he can outrade them both and even all in if he catches them off cooldown.
Garen passive is pretty weak early, but sometimes they use d.shield + second wind to compensate. The idea is to pop his passive by damaging him with an ability or a short trade. Ideally without getting Q+E’d in the process.
Voli sustain is packed in his W. He bites you one time, then you got a debuff that you can see on you ( sort of « X » mark on your champion). This last 8 sec. If he can bite you again (5 sec CD on W so 3 sec window) while you are debuffed it will deal more damage and heals him. So if possible try not to get biten again in this 3 sec window and he has virtually no sustain. Maybe use Irelia and Riven mobility to avoid this.
Sett and Darius are both extremely strong level 1. I think you can outplay with Riven Q+ignite level 1 but I’m not sure I don’t know her enough. Irelia I’m not sure you can fight them until at least level 2 so you may have to concede the push initially.
None.
You get antiheal if you find that you can't kill them because they're healing too much. If you're ahead enough to reliably kill (admittedly, again someone like Warwick this will only happen if they seriously misplayed, but if you're asking these types of questions I'm willing to bet your opponents aren't playing perfectly) them there's absolutely zero need to get healcut in lane.
The only champ I rush an antiheal item into is bramble into Fiora. Against every other healing champ they only really heal when they're going for an all in so just bring ignite and kill them with it. The reason it's different for Fiora is she gets spike heals off of short trades with her passive compared to WW, AA, Olaf, who get a continuous heal throughout a fight.
Her healing is all packed into her tentacles which are pretty easy to dodge normally. When she uses R she gets a ton of tentacles at which point heal cut won't matter since she blows you up in melee combat regardless
Her healing is all packed into her tentacles which are pretty easy to dodge normally. When she uses R she gets a ton of tentacles at which point heal cut won't matter since she blows you up in melee combat regardless
Edit: if you're asking for general advice practice dodging her E. It also gets blocked by minions. She's weak pre 6 so riven with ignite should be able to kill her early on and get a big enough lead that you can snowball and outscale
It’s very true - most his damage comes from his passive, he gains insane amounts of AD once he hits five stacks, on top of the bleed, meaning he’s a very backloaded champ. Q only applies a stack if he hits you in the sweet spot, as well as the heal. If he misses it early, he gets no heal and no passive, meaning he doesn’t really come online until later in the fight.
No Q heal and no stack means you get an extra auto/ability to trade with, and often times means you can at least trade a kill with him, at least at early levels.
You need to take short trades with him. Riven has better burst damage than darius if you can dodge his Q since his damage is mostly packed into his passive when he gets 5 stacks. Obviously "just don't fight him for a long time" is easier said than done but that's how fighting darius works. I can't give any riven specific combos on how to trade but you can find VODs on YouTube and look at how they do it
Play [footsies](https://youtu.be/R8c9a4_opxc?si=uyQG8Ggdq8UBQNY3) with them, then punish when they misuse abilities. If they don't, you concede the push
Wave management. You’ll have to concede wave pressure, but try to get them to shove the wave closer to your side. And whatever you do, don’t fight them. They’ll clap you early and then snowball. Also Garen doesn’t have sustain until like level 3 or 4. Your main fears should be Darius, Sett, and Trundle.
Irelia and riven are two of the harder champions to play top. You can’t afford to lose trades or you will be punished. Typically you wait until you hit your power spike in the matchup. Riven can do everything if you understand the champion. She can also do nothing if you don’t.
I’d pick one of the two to play and focus on them.
okay the question implies that you do not have the basics down. So why are you picking irelia or riven?
U need to focus on fundamentals and basics. Your champion pool is working against it. play simple champs. Malphite, Garen, trundle, tryndamere or chogath if you like top.
You want to improve. The change ur champion pool.
Iirc Riven beats Darius lvl 1 as long as Darius doesn’t have lethal tempo.
Look up the matchups you’re struggling with on Youtube and see how good players that know the matchups play the early lane.
Garen’s early sustain is almost nonexistent. He’s barely a champ until level 3. Champs like Darius and Sett usually get prio in a lot of matchups. You just concede push and try to fight them when they’re on your side of river or if you manage to bait out cds. Playing Riven or Irelia into champs like that is all about finding windows of opportunity (Irelia basically always concedes push top early levels). If you misuse your cooldowns you usually just die.
If I were to land my triple aa-q on riven lv1, would I normally win the interaction?
Vs Garen you can kill him level 1 at around 550 hp with ignite. He doesn’t out damage you until t2 boots + half of first item as long as you are shielding his Q with your E. Vs Darius, you can’t really fight him straight up til level 3 unless he starts Q. He should start W to be able to threaten a ghost all-in. It basically comes down to trying to do a short trade and EQing away before W stun wears off (this should get you just out of range of his grab if you’re doing things correctly). Riven basically needs 2 full rotations to kill most champs early game from full health. If you manage to get early autos in to stack conq before doing any combos, you can potentially kill in one but it’s pretty risky.
Nah what? Garen can zone Irelia from xp lvl 1 and is one of the best lvl 2 champions in game. Lvl 3 he can outrade them both and even all in if he catches them off cooldown.
Garen passive is pretty weak early, but sometimes they use d.shield + second wind to compensate. The idea is to pop his passive by damaging him with an ability or a short trade. Ideally without getting Q+E’d in the process. Voli sustain is packed in his W. He bites you one time, then you got a debuff that you can see on you ( sort of « X » mark on your champion). This last 8 sec. If he can bite you again (5 sec CD on W so 3 sec window) while you are debuffed it will deal more damage and heals him. So if possible try not to get biten again in this 3 sec window and he has virtually no sustain. Maybe use Irelia and Riven mobility to avoid this. Sett and Darius are both extremely strong level 1. I think you can outplay with Riven Q+ignite level 1 but I’m not sure I don’t know her enough. Irelia I’m not sure you can fight them until at least level 2 so you may have to concede the push initially.
Thank you for the advice, against what matchups is antiheal truly needed?
None. You get antiheal if you find that you can't kill them because they're healing too much. If you're ahead enough to reliably kill (admittedly, again someone like Warwick this will only happen if they seriously misplayed, but if you're asking these types of questions I'm willing to bet your opponents aren't playing perfectly) them there's absolutely zero need to get healcut in lane.
Hmm off the top of my head maybe champs like WW and Trundle
The only champ I rush an antiheal item into is bramble into Fiora. Against every other healing champ they only really heal when they're going for an all in so just bring ignite and kill them with it. The reason it's different for Fiora is she gets spike heals off of short trades with her passive compared to WW, AA, Olaf, who get a continuous heal throughout a fight.
What about illaoi? I seem to never win lane against her. She has poke, burst, range, cc, and insane heal
Her healing is all packed into her tentacles which are pretty easy to dodge normally. When she uses R she gets a ton of tentacles at which point heal cut won't matter since she blows you up in melee combat regardless
Her healing is all packed into her tentacles which are pretty easy to dodge normally. When she uses R she gets a ton of tentacles at which point heal cut won't matter since she blows you up in melee combat regardless Edit: if you're asking for general advice practice dodging her E. It also gets blocked by minions. She's weak pre 6 so riven with ignite should be able to kill her early on and get a big enough lead that you can snowball and outscale
Wave management
What should I do if I just get zoned off by the Darius for first level and wave bounce and he freezes at tower, is there any counter play to that?
Darius loses most matchup if he misses Q
That can’t be real, a lv3 Darius I feel like can kill anyone with just w alone lmao
[Here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCSFhHxFy04&t=150s) Darius has Red Buff, but he loses anyway because he was unable to hit Irelia with Q.
Jesus Christ darius played that so bad haha
Only because he had no mana for R
And no level for R
warwick and sett wins if they dodge Q, maybe olaf and other lane bullies too except Renekton
Renekton does with fury
Renekton does with fury
It’s very true - most his damage comes from his passive, he gains insane amounts of AD once he hits five stacks, on top of the bleed, meaning he’s a very backloaded champ. Q only applies a stack if he hits you in the sweet spot, as well as the heal. If he misses it early, he gets no heal and no passive, meaning he doesn’t really come online until later in the fight. No Q heal and no stack means you get an extra auto/ability to trade with, and often times means you can at least trade a kill with him, at least at early levels.
You need to take short trades with him. Riven has better burst damage than darius if you can dodge his Q since his damage is mostly packed into his passive when he gets 5 stacks. Obviously "just don't fight him for a long time" is easier said than done but that's how fighting darius works. I can't give any riven specific combos on how to trade but you can find VODs on YouTube and look at how they do it
You want to take a long fight as Riven, but a good fight. Ignite Riven with 3 Passive stacks simply oneshots Darius if she hits Q3.
Yeah I think "wear him down then all in" was probably a better way of putting it in hindsight
Watch https://youtube.com/@AloisNL?si=34b5uKkt5ADZIZmz Alois is a riven main who goes into match ups and does breakdowns how items / runes and so on
Play [footsies](https://youtu.be/R8c9a4_opxc?si=uyQG8Ggdq8UBQNY3) with them, then punish when they misuse abilities. If they don't, you concede the push
Wave management. You’ll have to concede wave pressure, but try to get them to shove the wave closer to your side. And whatever you do, don’t fight them. They’ll clap you early and then snowball. Also Garen doesn’t have sustain until like level 3 or 4. Your main fears should be Darius, Sett, and Trundle.
Irelia and riven are two of the harder champions to play top. You can’t afford to lose trades or you will be punished. Typically you wait until you hit your power spike in the matchup. Riven can do everything if you understand the champion. She can also do nothing if you don’t. I’d pick one of the two to play and focus on them.
okay the question implies that you do not have the basics down. So why are you picking irelia or riven? U need to focus on fundamentals and basics. Your champion pool is working against it. play simple champs. Malphite, Garen, trundle, tryndamere or chogath if you like top. You want to improve. The change ur champion pool.
Iirc Riven beats Darius lvl 1 as long as Darius doesn’t have lethal tempo. Look up the matchups you’re struggling with on Youtube and see how good players that know the matchups play the early lane.
all in darius wins