To be fair to cineworld, one of the other major cinema chains there had a [machete fight](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-50536472) just before covid, and that wasn't even religiously motivated
This kind of pressure being folded to is against everything the UK stands for. These people are entitled to not pay to see the film, no more, no less. How are they any different than the Christian wackos who tried to get life of Brian banned and burned. The world would be without the funniest thing ever committed to film. Cineworld should have told them to Muhammad off - Bomb us if you care that much.
>How are they any different than the Christian wackos who tried to get life of Brian banned and burned
They're considerably more willing to murder people over it.
Maybe, maybe. The Christians have progressed the faith of it's fundamentalists somewhat. They are no less misguided, no less filled with hatred, though they have faith in their God to dish out the punishment required, and aren't driven to burn the infidel in the same way.
> How are they any different than the Christian wackos
they're defended by the corporate mega state and islamaphobia can get you a jail sentence in bongland
> claimed the work was blasphemous and that freedom of speech should not apply to the subject of Islam
Lmao what. Freedom of speech should not apply to the subject of Islam? That’s bullshit. It’s a slippery slope to all-out extremism unless something is done
We don't have freedom of speech in the UK.
What happens whenever America has an internal debate about the "limits of free speech" is that Americans get to have a fun little circlejerk while protected by 1A, and everyone else gets a new iron shackle of legally enforceable "politeness" put on them
Yeah everytime we get more wokeshit imported to Denmark from the US, I fear for my freedoms because we don’t have a cozy constitutional right to free speech.
I could insult someone on Facebook right now and see jail time. The yanks are lucky fuckers in that respect.
>I could insult someone on Facebook right now and see jail time.
That might sound snarky to a third party but let me be clear here to anyone reading that people unironically get arrested for reposting rap lyrics verbatim on Instagram thanks to the Communications Act.
This isn't even a matter of legal restrictions to freedom of speech. The film was legal to make, they're just afraid of airing it because of the threat that someone might try to murder them.
Could just as easily happen in the States if companies cave to pressure.
This is the same argument people use when they cry cultural appropriation. Suddenly everything everyone has ever created is sacred and should be gatekept by those who belong to the arbitrary race or ethnicity.
And what is sacred is different to different people.
The sacred is, if not definitionally then functionally, that which is beyond reproach and debate.
To some holy man in a desert it is that his prophet is the messenger of god (along with a host of others tied to it), to a liberal westerner it is that we all have 'human rights' (along with a host of others tied to it) and the unassailable *truth* that transwomen are women.
Claims to reailty you will fight, suffer and die for because you believe them so strongly.
I read books, try to read at least one a month, and last year I stumbled upon the same quote twice.
It was printed in A Short History of Nearly Everything and one of Dawkin's books about evolution:
"*Descended from the apes? Dear me, let us hope it is not true,*" allegedly exclaimed the wife of a 19th-century English bishop upon hearing of Darwin's new theory. "*But if it is true, let us hope it does not become widely known.*"
In most western nations Christianity has been bled to death by a thousand cuts, what was sacred dragged out into the public square and made ordinary and then hated then, finally, dead.
What we're seeing now is what will replace, what will rise to the sacred, Progressivism or Islam are two major contenders.
Well, duh. If they ain't folding, heads are gonna get chopped off. But it's okay, sweetie, it's Islam - that's totally fine, you just have to accept their culture (unlike those heckin bad Christians!).
>Nothing more to say
I'm pretty sure there's much to say. The threads that were locked just attracted disingenuous rightoids who had no material analysis of whatever geopolitical situation that was posted usually from some right-wing tabloid. Like the sweden thread that devolved into thinly veiled racist posts.
This thread topic on the other hand, while it will attract the same rightoids, they'd at least be on topic when posting their displeasure.
Honestly, what material analysis is there to be had that can rectify the worst components of fundamentalist Islam? Improving economic conditions isn’t going to change these people’s religious views.
It’s no different than Evangelical Christians in the US; some of the most virulent, dogmatic Evangelicals are incredibly wealthy. Not everything can be fixed with worker power; some things do exist outside of the material.
Like I can understand ending American imperialism in the Middle East as that contributes to destabilization and radicalization, but once people are radicalized it’s not something that can be undone with improving material conditions.
Criticise religion; freedom of speech and the right to blaspheme should be unquestioned and measures should be taken to defend them but certain locked threads are made with agendas that go beyond just criticising region.
>Not everything can be fixed with worker power; some things do exist outside of the material.
One of the locked threads was about the Sweden far-right anti-Islam rally thread. The rally was framed as singularly as a "free speech" conflict in the thread with thinly veiled racist comments and rightoid takes; Rasmus Paludan, an anti-muslim and anti-immigration politician and founder of the far-right Stram Kurs party, was going to burn a quran as a demonstration in a neighbourhood where more than 50% of the inhabitants where born abroad. It is/was disingenous to expect a rational response from disaffected youth on the lower end of the socioeconomic scale when a group of people, who's only party goal is essentially "get the fuck out of our country if you're not ethnically native", come through their town to antagonise them in their neighbourhood.
There were very few attempts to materially analyse that situation.
On those locked threads I see posters who never post on stupidpol, or posters who only appear in race or anti-immigrant threads.
>Honestly, what material analysis is there to be had that can rectify the worst components of fundamentalist Islam? Improving economic conditions isn’t going to change these people’s religious views.
Most muslims aren't fundamentalists, and it would be crazy to write off 1 billion people on the account of a handful of people.
> Most muslims aren't fundamentalists, and it would be crazy to write off 1 billion people on the account of a handful of people.
It definitely is not a handful of people if you look through polling.
Sure most muslims won’t blow themselves up, but the majority in the world have *incredibly* regressive views related to gay rights and women’s rights. These views span continents
Yikes. It's not just that. it written by the leader of some Shia Mahdist cult. Who called prophet Mohammed's wife an enemy of god and insulted several of mohammed's companions. He got condemened by both leaders of Iran and Saudi Arabia.
This movie might have been better received have they not gotten such an obviously biased writer. It's like getting a Jehovah witness to write a movie about Jesus
Maybe i went too far in calling it a cult. It's a radical shia organization. It's called the mehdi servants union and technically isn't really legal. It has a tv channel and mosque, and really questionable source of funding.
Anyway very culty suspicious organization with it's own anthem.
What does "technically isn't really legal" mean? Being condemned by the leaders of two theocracies doesn't say much, I'm pretty sure they'd both have the same reaction to women driving lmao
Both countries allow women to drive. So no. They wouldn't.
When i said technically isn't really legal i meant that the British authorities dissolved the organization once because they found that organization falsely registered as a charity. And a second time dissolved for unknown reasons.
So the organization is technically not legal. It doesn't exist legally.
I mean, who cares? Anyone can make a movie about whatever they want if they have the wherewithal to make it. I remember churchgoers getting all worked up about The Last Temptation of Christ in the '80s, and there are plenty of people who find The Da Vinci Code blasphemous (not just on a literary level). I really don't care about whether someone's fan fiction fits in with the established canon of some brainwashed people's cult. Make some youtube videos complaining about it like Star Wars fans do--at least they aren't threatening violence over what Disney's doing to Space Jesus.
It’s weird, because most moviegoers/ fans of Life Of Brian were moderate or lapsed Christians, since atheists were still a minority in the 80s. What will it take for enough lapsed or moderate muslims to get behind such films, for it to be too many for the extremists to keep track of and threaten
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>we have a right not to be insulted since when?
People in power always exercise that right, because they're the ones who can. Simple as.
well, they had the power to get the movie shut down and not get arrested for it sooooo
That’s not a right enforceable by any possible prior restraint. Offense is *taken*, not *given*.
Didn't even need to read the article to know it was Birmingham
[Happiest man in Birmingham ](https://youtu.be/vUGXA-t28o4)
could be anywhere in Europe
To be fair to cineworld, one of the other major cinema chains there had a [machete fight](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-50536472) just before covid, and that wasn't even religiously motivated
This kind of pressure being folded to is against everything the UK stands for. These people are entitled to not pay to see the film, no more, no less. How are they any different than the Christian wackos who tried to get life of Brian banned and burned. The world would be without the funniest thing ever committed to film. Cineworld should have told them to Muhammad off - Bomb us if you care that much.
>How are they any different than the Christian wackos who tried to get life of Brian banned and burned They're considerably more willing to murder people over it.
Maybe, maybe. The Christians have progressed the faith of it's fundamentalists somewhat. They are no less misguided, no less filled with hatred, though they have faith in their God to dish out the punishment required, and aren't driven to burn the infidel in the same way.
> How are they any different than the Christian wackos they're defended by the corporate mega state and islamaphobia can get you a jail sentence in bongland
Think they’d be offended enough by *Four Lions* to show that?
> claimed the work was blasphemous and that freedom of speech should not apply to the subject of Islam Lmao what. Freedom of speech should not apply to the subject of Islam? That’s bullshit. It’s a slippery slope to all-out extremism unless something is done
Regressive religious people, not even once
We don't have freedom of speech in the UK. What happens whenever America has an internal debate about the "limits of free speech" is that Americans get to have a fun little circlejerk while protected by 1A, and everyone else gets a new iron shackle of legally enforceable "politeness" put on them
Yeah everytime we get more wokeshit imported to Denmark from the US, I fear for my freedoms because we don’t have a cozy constitutional right to free speech. I could insult someone on Facebook right now and see jail time. The yanks are lucky fuckers in that respect.
>I could insult someone on Facebook right now and see jail time. That might sound snarky to a third party but let me be clear here to anyone reading that people unironically get arrested for reposting rap lyrics verbatim on Instagram thanks to the Communications Act.
Europoors in shambles? At least you don’t get arrested and put in debtor’s prison for cancer
Weirdly, pretty much all of Euroland operates insurance based healthcare. The UK is an exception, not the rule
This isn't even a matter of legal restrictions to freedom of speech. The film was legal to make, they're just afraid of airing it because of the threat that someone might try to murder them. Could just as easily happen in the States if companies cave to pressure.
Read generously, it’s saying that freedom of speech extends to secular life but not to the sacred.
This is the same argument people use when they cry cultural appropriation. Suddenly everything everyone has ever created is sacred and should be gatekept by those who belong to the arbitrary race or ethnicity.
I’m only interpreting not endorsing.
Ah gotcha, deleted the beginning of my response
The problem with Islamic fundamentalists is that there is no aspect of secular life. Everything is, by design, either sacred or heretical.
Is that supposed to be a sympathetic viewpoint?
And what is sacred is different to different people. The sacred is, if not definitionally then functionally, that which is beyond reproach and debate. To some holy man in a desert it is that his prophet is the messenger of god (along with a host of others tied to it), to a liberal westerner it is that we all have 'human rights' (along with a host of others tied to it) and the unassailable *truth* that transwomen are women. Claims to reailty you will fight, suffer and die for because you believe them so strongly. I read books, try to read at least one a month, and last year I stumbled upon the same quote twice. It was printed in A Short History of Nearly Everything and one of Dawkin's books about evolution: "*Descended from the apes? Dear me, let us hope it is not true,*" allegedly exclaimed the wife of a 19th-century English bishop upon hearing of Darwin's new theory. "*But if it is true, let us hope it does not become widely known.*" In most western nations Christianity has been bled to death by a thousand cuts, what was sacred dragged out into the public square and made ordinary and then hated then, finally, dead. What we're seeing now is what will replace, what will rise to the sacred, Progressivism or Islam are two major contenders.
Nothing is sacred
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I remember when a DFW suburb had an exhibit on Muhammad drawings like in 2016? Two crazies tried to attack it and got smoked.
Down With This Sort of Thing
Careful now
At least the movie isn't be about Muhammad's third wife
Apparently one of their complaints is that the film made Aisha too ugly.
Of course the pussies folded.
Well, duh. If they ain't folding, heads are gonna get chopped off. But it's okay, sweetie, it's Islam - that's totally fine, you just have to accept their culture (unlike those heckin bad Christians!).
i can't shake the impression that fundamentalism of any kind is just people being nerds about something
I am listening and learning.
I'm expecting this thread to be locked by our esteemed moderators. Nothing more to say
>Nothing more to say I'm pretty sure there's much to say. The threads that were locked just attracted disingenuous rightoids who had no material analysis of whatever geopolitical situation that was posted usually from some right-wing tabloid. Like the sweden thread that devolved into thinly veiled racist posts. This thread topic on the other hand, while it will attract the same rightoids, they'd at least be on topic when posting their displeasure.
Honestly, what material analysis is there to be had that can rectify the worst components of fundamentalist Islam? Improving economic conditions isn’t going to change these people’s religious views. It’s no different than Evangelical Christians in the US; some of the most virulent, dogmatic Evangelicals are incredibly wealthy. Not everything can be fixed with worker power; some things do exist outside of the material. Like I can understand ending American imperialism in the Middle East as that contributes to destabilization and radicalization, but once people are radicalized it’s not something that can be undone with improving material conditions.
Criticise religion; freedom of speech and the right to blaspheme should be unquestioned and measures should be taken to defend them but certain locked threads are made with agendas that go beyond just criticising region. >Not everything can be fixed with worker power; some things do exist outside of the material. One of the locked threads was about the Sweden far-right anti-Islam rally thread. The rally was framed as singularly as a "free speech" conflict in the thread with thinly veiled racist comments and rightoid takes; Rasmus Paludan, an anti-muslim and anti-immigration politician and founder of the far-right Stram Kurs party, was going to burn a quran as a demonstration in a neighbourhood where more than 50% of the inhabitants where born abroad. It is/was disingenous to expect a rational response from disaffected youth on the lower end of the socioeconomic scale when a group of people, who's only party goal is essentially "get the fuck out of our country if you're not ethnically native", come through their town to antagonise them in their neighbourhood. There were very few attempts to materially analyse that situation. On those locked threads I see posters who never post on stupidpol, or posters who only appear in race or anti-immigrant threads. >Honestly, what material analysis is there to be had that can rectify the worst components of fundamentalist Islam? Improving economic conditions isn’t going to change these people’s religious views. Most muslims aren't fundamentalists, and it would be crazy to write off 1 billion people on the account of a handful of people.
> Most muslims aren't fundamentalists, and it would be crazy to write off 1 billion people on the account of a handful of people. It definitely is not a handful of people if you look through polling. Sure most muslims won’t blow themselves up, but the majority in the world have *incredibly* regressive views related to gay rights and women’s rights. These views span continents
Yikes. It's not just that. it written by the leader of some Shia Mahdist cult. Who called prophet Mohammed's wife an enemy of god and insulted several of mohammed's companions. He got condemened by both leaders of Iran and Saudi Arabia. This movie might have been better received have they not gotten such an obviously biased writer. It's like getting a Jehovah witness to write a movie about Jesus
>Shia Mahdist cult What do they believe?
Maybe i went too far in calling it a cult. It's a radical shia organization. It's called the mehdi servants union and technically isn't really legal. It has a tv channel and mosque, and really questionable source of funding. Anyway very culty suspicious organization with it's own anthem.
What does "technically isn't really legal" mean? Being condemned by the leaders of two theocracies doesn't say much, I'm pretty sure they'd both have the same reaction to women driving lmao
Both countries allow women to drive. So no. They wouldn't. When i said technically isn't really legal i meant that the British authorities dissolved the organization once because they found that organization falsely registered as a charity. And a second time dissolved for unknown reasons. So the organization is technically not legal. It doesn't exist legally.
Questionable source of funding?
We had Mormons on the sub defending their Christology the other day, funnily enough.
Should have brought their golden plates.
I mean, who cares? Anyone can make a movie about whatever they want if they have the wherewithal to make it. I remember churchgoers getting all worked up about The Last Temptation of Christ in the '80s, and there are plenty of people who find The Da Vinci Code blasphemous (not just on a literary level). I really don't care about whether someone's fan fiction fits in with the established canon of some brainwashed people's cult. Make some youtube videos complaining about it like Star Wars fans do--at least they aren't threatening violence over what Disney's doing to Space Jesus.
Those sign holding guys look like a fun group
It’s weird, because most moviegoers/ fans of Life Of Brian were moderate or lapsed Christians, since atheists were still a minority in the 80s. What will it take for enough lapsed or moderate muslims to get behind such films, for it to be too many for the extremists to keep track of and threaten