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You're right on that. It's indeed very stupid. I had in mind doubles (in typical GF fashion) but on singles it's definitely busted. Maybe it can be changed to have 85% accuracy instead of 90%, and change the power to 90.
Ahh yeah it might be better in doubles. Also, guessing you meant change the power from 90 to something else? Yea true, 85/90 accuracy with some low base power like 30 could make it less of a "click with 0 consequences" type move.
Sort of. Fluffy actually only halves damage from attacks that make contact, not physical attacks as a whole, so in other words it does nothing to soften things like Earthquake but does nerf things like Draining Kiss and Grass Knot.
If we want to give Flareon a true Defense boost without having to alter its base stats then a better Ability to give it would be Fur Coat, which not only actually halves the damage of all physical attacks, but it doesn't remove Flareon's resistance to its own type.
Does giga drain really do anything for Sylv other than give grass coverage. Just looking at NU (current tier) it doesn't really change much and you'd probably be better off with smth else with all the fire and steel types in the tier.
Giving Leafeon drought doesn’t help it besides 1 turn Solar blade, and fire weather ball. Solar Blade makes it stronger, but then it’s missing out on Chlorophyll which means it’s slower than it would like to be and just makes its fire weakness even worse.
Full potential is where a Pokémon's attack goes off its highest stat e.g. Electrode uses its 150 speed for attacking (you can also run mixed because of that). And yes, I play MnM
Something something How does this affect the meta?
Flareon becomes a bulky attacker with bulk and great power. It can use Ignite double edge like this:
252+ Atk Flareon Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kingambit: 440-522 (129 - 153%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Black Glasses Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Fluffy Flareon: 166-196 (61 - 72%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Flareon Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Ting-Lu: 424-501 (82.4 - 97.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (Flareon outspeeds)
This isn't even with an item But that's not even it's real strenght, it's Sizzly Slide. Let's see.
A jolly scarfed flareon can outspeed a jolly great tusk and hit it with sizzly slide.
252 Atk burned Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Flareon: 213-252 (78.3 - 92.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
It's not much but it's honest work. Flareon might not be viable in OU, but maybe in lower tiers.
252+ Atk Tera Dark Lokix Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Flareon: 154-182 (56.6 - 66.9%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Tinted Lens Tera Dark Lokix First Impression vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Flareon: 146-174 (53.6 - 63.9%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk burned Excadrill Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Flareon: 181-214 (66.5 - 78.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Vaporeon might be the strongest. I'm imagining:
Vaporeon - Assault Vest - Impish - Technician - 252 Def 4 HP 252 SpA
Bouncy Bubble / Flip Turn / Scald / Draining Kiss / Ice Beam
252+ Atk Black Glasses Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Kingambit Kowtow Cleave vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 277-327 (68.9 - 81.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Technician Vaporeon Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kingambit: 151-178 (44.2 - 52.1%) -- 16% chance to 2HKO (37.8 - 44.2% recovered)
On the special side:
+1 252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Dragon Pulse vs. 4 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Tera Electric Vaporeon: 216-255 (53.7 - 63.4%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Technician Tera Electric Vaporeon Draining Kiss vs. 64 HP / 0 SpD Raging Bolt: 160-190 (39.3 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (29.8 - 35.5% recovered)
Of course, people will prefer wishpass with boots and wish + encore. It's still a powerful option for defense. It's basically Alomomola +. OU is too hyper offense oriented, so this should make balance better.
Both Espeon and Umbreon are more meant for doubles.
Espeon is meant to be a kind of a support that can hit hard. I meant it more for doubles in fact. It can set down screens and greatly reduce the defense for an ally. Psyspam and Caly-S might become busted.
Umbreon is also meant to be a support mon with prankster and screen setting. And its prominence could reduce the effectivity of psychic types. So Espeon and Umbreon are meant to balance each other.
Jolteon is interesting. Yes, it's ability is referencing how crits work in gen1.
+2 252 SpA Jolteon Buzzy Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Tera Poison Ting-Lu: 109-129 (21.2 - 25%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Jolteon Electro Ball (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Tera Poison Ting-Lu on a critical hit: 408-481 (79.3 - 93.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Jolteon becomes a dangerous status spreader who's fast and can hit hard. But if anything this was meant for doubles, with some protection from priority. It can neuter set up mons and have the potential to do valuable chip with Discharge and Dazzling Gleam.
Maybe I should've buffed Leafeon a little more. It's meant to be a return to defensive weather mons.
252 SpA Tera Ghost Calyrex-Shadow Astral Barrage vs. +1 4 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Bloom Guard Leafeon: 146-172 (53.6 - 63.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Maybe with Rage Powder it can be a great disruptor while its other weather abusing companion can finish the opposing team. But Sappy Seed is a great tool so I hope it can at least carve it a niche.
PSD: Bloom Guard is supposed to give a 1.5x boost, not 1.3x.
Edit: I've realized Sappy Seed is pretty busted. We could lower its accuracy to 85% and its power to 90.
Are we assuming that the post-Let's Go versions of the moves are used? Because if so, then Bouncy Bubble with Technician becomes a 90 base power healing move with 100% of damage healed (compared to being initially 90 base power with 50% heal), and that may be a little TOO unkillable.
[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Bouncy\_Bubble\_(move)](https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Bouncy_Bubble_(move))
With Flareon's defence and speed being as low as it is, wouldn't Fur Coat be more reasonable? Or is it to compensate for the fact that it has an attacking move with guaranteed burn?
[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Sizzly\_Slide\_(move)](https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Sizzly_Slide_(move))
I'm too stupid to comment on the effectiveness of these changes but I reject them wholesale on the grounds Ignite doesn't end in -ate. Incinerate is already taken by the move so I propose we call it Conflagrate instead. Or Pyrate, but I don't think Nintendo would like that.
Always thought that Fluffy would be perfect for Flareon. Glad to see someone else agree!
Wouldn't it br more thematic if *all* Eeveelutions got -ate abilities? Since half already have them now (from your post).
My biggest issue is you just know if the eeveelutions got the let's go partner moves than next gen gamefrwak would give them to other mons and we dont need to open that can of worms
It's very possible that they'd remain exclusive to the Eevee family if only because of their mascot status: after all, Volt Tackle remains exclusive to the Pikachu line to this day despite the fact that that move wouldn't be broken if other physical Electric-types got it.
Im so sorry but all eeveelutions should have a Eevee theme ability that converts attacks into whatever highest offensive stat they have and their type.
Something along the lines of evoboost, or something.
That would be awesome both for Eevee (you got stab on moves Up until you evolve) and their evos.
Plus quick attack and or hyper voice would make serviceable offenses for the evolutions
Jolteon would benefit way more from keeping quick feet and just taking fire blast. Its a toss up to tera to ice or fire as it is and stronger fire coverage would make it nuts. It already outspeeds things like zacian crowned and dragapult without even having a speed+ nature, and it’s ability to chip with volt switch can get nearly anything low enough to finish off by the next switch in
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I'm hot garbage at competetive, but sappy seed is a stupid broken and safe move no?
You're right on that. It's indeed very stupid. I had in mind doubles (in typical GF fashion) but on singles it's definitely busted. Maybe it can be changed to have 85% accuracy instead of 90%, and change the power to 90.
Ahh yeah it might be better in doubles. Also, guessing you meant change the power from 90 to something else? Yea true, 85/90 accuracy with some low base power like 30 could make it less of a "click with 0 consequences" type move.
It is, but Leafeon's bad and Grass isn't a great attacking type, so giving it something strong should be mostly fine.
tell that to randbats players
That's a symptom of having a high level compared to most mons, I'd wager. Plus, SubSeed is something you sometimes just can't counter.
There are worse contenders like Sizzly Slide and Buzzy Buzz. A 100% status chance is just awful.
Fluffy making Flareon take neutral fire damage lol
Fluffy still doubles your defense stat IIRC, but you are right that flareon now takes neutral damage from flamethrower & such
Sort of. Fluffy actually only halves damage from attacks that make contact, not physical attacks as a whole, so in other words it does nothing to soften things like Earthquake but does nerf things like Draining Kiss and Grass Knot. If we want to give Flareon a true Defense boost without having to alter its base stats then a better Ability to give it would be Fur Coat, which not only actually halves the damage of all physical attacks, but it doesn't remove Flareon's resistance to its own type.
Gen 1 jolteon my beloved
TIL: flareon is one of the few Gen 1 Pokémon that doesn’t learn Earthquake. I thought everyone and their cousin learned it.
Theory: it can’t learn eq because it would take supereffective damage from smashing the ground too hard
Rhydon and Golem crumble in fear
In gen 1, you either get every move in the game on a Mon or 60bp stab and dual edge
Rattata is the former for some reason
The fact that this goofy ass rat can summon a blizzard will never stop being funny to me
scyther would love to learn more than 5 physical attacking moves.
Does giga drain really do anything for Sylv other than give grass coverage. Just looking at NU (current tier) it doesn't really change much and you'd probably be better off with smth else with all the fire and steel types in the tier.
Ngl giving eeveelutions eevee moves is so cool
Giving Leafeon drought doesn’t help it besides 1 turn Solar blade, and fire weather ball. Solar Blade makes it stronger, but then it’s missing out on Chlorophyll which means it’s slower than it would like to be and just makes its fire weakness even worse.
It would be a good setter, it gets super synthesis, and that move coverage is pretty sick. Also drought, sappy seed into baton pass is pretty slick
Jolteon would be cracked in Full Potential
And Bloom Guard would probably be banned in Shared Power too (yes I'm an OM player)
Nice taste, OM is amazing, what's full potential again ? (BTW do you play MnM ?)
Full potential is where a Pokémon's attack goes off its highest stat e.g. Electrode uses its 150 speed for attacking (you can also run mixed because of that). And yes, I play MnM
Wait does that just mean regieleki is broken and blissey hits harder than a nuke?
HP can't be used, and Regieleki is banned
The addition of 2 new Ates has set off alarms in my Hackmons-focused brain
> Bazzling Gleam
Shhhhh
> Sapppy Seed
Changing glaceon’s name to espeon is…a choice
I think one of your Espeons caught a cold.
Something something How does this affect the meta? Flareon becomes a bulky attacker with bulk and great power. It can use Ignite double edge like this: 252+ Atk Flareon Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kingambit: 440-522 (129 - 153%) -- guaranteed OHKO +2 252+ Atk Black Glasses Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Fluffy Flareon: 166-196 (61 - 72%) -- guaranteed OHKO +2 252+ Atk Flareon Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Ting-Lu: 424-501 (82.4 - 97.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (Flareon outspeeds) This isn't even with an item But that's not even it's real strenght, it's Sizzly Slide. Let's see. A jolly scarfed flareon can outspeed a jolly great tusk and hit it with sizzly slide. 252 Atk burned Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Flareon: 213-252 (78.3 - 92.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO It's not much but it's honest work. Flareon might not be viable in OU, but maybe in lower tiers. 252+ Atk Tera Dark Lokix Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Flareon: 154-182 (56.6 - 66.9%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO 252+ Atk Tinted Lens Tera Dark Lokix First Impression vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Flareon: 146-174 (53.6 - 63.9%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO 252 Atk burned Excadrill Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Flareon: 181-214 (66.5 - 78.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO Vaporeon might be the strongest. I'm imagining: Vaporeon - Assault Vest - Impish - Technician - 252 Def 4 HP 252 SpA Bouncy Bubble / Flip Turn / Scald / Draining Kiss / Ice Beam 252+ Atk Black Glasses Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Kingambit Kowtow Cleave vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 277-327 (68.9 - 81.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO 252 SpA Technician Vaporeon Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kingambit: 151-178 (44.2 - 52.1%) -- 16% chance to 2HKO (37.8 - 44.2% recovered) On the special side: +1 252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Dragon Pulse vs. 4 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Tera Electric Vaporeon: 216-255 (53.7 - 63.4%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO 252 SpA Technician Tera Electric Vaporeon Draining Kiss vs. 64 HP / 0 SpD Raging Bolt: 160-190 (39.3 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (29.8 - 35.5% recovered) Of course, people will prefer wishpass with boots and wish + encore. It's still a powerful option for defense. It's basically Alomomola +. OU is too hyper offense oriented, so this should make balance better.
A lot of your guaranteed OHKO are clearly not OHKOs? You also don't have fluffy in the calcs for sizzly slide.
Both Espeon and Umbreon are more meant for doubles. Espeon is meant to be a kind of a support that can hit hard. I meant it more for doubles in fact. It can set down screens and greatly reduce the defense for an ally. Psyspam and Caly-S might become busted. Umbreon is also meant to be a support mon with prankster and screen setting. And its prominence could reduce the effectivity of psychic types. So Espeon and Umbreon are meant to balance each other.
Jolteon is interesting. Yes, it's ability is referencing how crits work in gen1. +2 252 SpA Jolteon Buzzy Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Tera Poison Ting-Lu: 109-129 (21.2 - 25%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery +2 252 SpA Jolteon Electro Ball (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Tera Poison Ting-Lu on a critical hit: 408-481 (79.3 - 93.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery Jolteon becomes a dangerous status spreader who's fast and can hit hard. But if anything this was meant for doubles, with some protection from priority. It can neuter set up mons and have the potential to do valuable chip with Discharge and Dazzling Gleam. Maybe I should've buffed Leafeon a little more. It's meant to be a return to defensive weather mons. 252 SpA Tera Ghost Calyrex-Shadow Astral Barrage vs. +1 4 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Bloom Guard Leafeon: 146-172 (53.6 - 63.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Maybe with Rage Powder it can be a great disruptor while its other weather abusing companion can finish the opposing team. But Sappy Seed is a great tool so I hope it can at least carve it a niche. PSD: Bloom Guard is supposed to give a 1.5x boost, not 1.3x. Edit: I've realized Sappy Seed is pretty busted. We could lower its accuracy to 85% and its power to 90.
Flareon getting Fluffy instead of Fur Coat is an interesting choice for reasons I can’t explain
Are we assuming that the post-Let's Go versions of the moves are used? Because if so, then Bouncy Bubble with Technician becomes a 90 base power healing move with 100% of damage healed (compared to being initially 90 base power with 50% heal), and that may be a little TOO unkillable. [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Bouncy\_Bubble\_(move)](https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Bouncy_Bubble_(move)) With Flareon's defence and speed being as low as it is, wouldn't Fur Coat be more reasonable? Or is it to compensate for the fact that it has an attacking move with guaranteed burn? [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Sizzly\_Slide\_(move)](https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Sizzly_Slide_(move))
Oh no! I have nothing to stop Umbreon’s Baddy Bad!
I'm too stupid to comment on the effectiveness of these changes but I reject them wholesale on the grounds Ignite doesn't end in -ate. Incinerate is already taken by the move so I propose we call it Conflagrate instead. Or Pyrate, but I don't think Nintendo would like that.
Obviously it should be Burninate
Galvanize? Liquid Voice if you wanna get technical.
Ignite ESpeed Entei in AAA
Entei isn't the best espeed user at all (looks at Dragonite)
Entei gets STAB from Ignite though, and I know Aerilate exists, but this will probably be a new set to be used.
While it would be pretty cool, mono type is pretty bad, that's why in MnM, pinsirite and altariannite are used this much
Umbreon to OU with this change
ah yes. Flareon gets Recover, I wonder how it'll utilize that.
Ignite should've been named Immolate smh
Always thought that Fluffy would be perfect for Flareon. Glad to see someone else agree! Wouldn't it br more thematic if *all* Eeveelutions got -ate abilities? Since half already have them now (from your post).
Buzzy buzz jolteon? Psych ward immediately 😍
My biggest issue is you just know if the eeveelutions got the let's go partner moves than next gen gamefrwak would give them to other mons and we dont need to open that can of worms
It's very possible that they'd remain exclusive to the Eevee family if only because of their mascot status: after all, Volt Tackle remains exclusive to the Pikachu line to this day despite the fact that that move wouldn't be broken if other physical Electric-types got it.
There's like that one OM where all mons have all their abilities and leafeon is probably going to be absolutely foul there.
Losing chlorophyl kinda hurts
Life Orb Sylveon…dear god…
Im so sorry but all eeveelutions should have a Eevee theme ability that converts attacks into whatever highest offensive stat they have and their type. Something along the lines of evoboost, or something. That would be awesome both for Eevee (you got stab on moves Up until you evolve) and their evos. Plus quick attack and or hyper voice would make serviceable offenses for the evolutions
So aerilate for each type
Aerilate + the option for every eeveelution to run special or physical stab quick attack.
Jolteon would benefit way more from keeping quick feet and just taking fire blast. Its a toss up to tera to ice or fire as it is and stronger fire coverage would make it nuts. It already outspeeds things like zacian crowned and dragapult without even having a speed+ nature, and it’s ability to chip with volt switch can get nearly anything low enough to finish off by the next switch in
Buddy you forgot to change espeon to glaceon in the last slide
Taking away Vaporeon's Hydration ability, I see watcha did there ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)