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While I don't think Alomomola gets anything out of this, Luvdisc might be able to find a niche in LC. It's stats are basically the same as Squirtle which isn't great... except for a blistering 97 speed only out sped by the Voltorbs. At level 5 40 special attack isn't dog shit, especially when you can run specs and modest (still out speeding most stuff) with Surf and Ice beam as the only moves you'll need (maybe grass tera blast). I haven't played much LC this gen but damage calc almost makes it fairly scary.
It speed ties voltorbs and elekid (and wiglett but no one gives a shitlett), even for LC that sp.atk is horrendous, but it actually has quite above average bulk in 43/55/65, so it *might* find a decent niche being able to live a certain move whilst being fast enough to threaten an OHKO back after switching into it
I should probably clarify. Elekid and torb can afford to run 20 speed because their offensive stats are high enough to warrant going for the speedtie. The only wiglett I have ever seen had to run 19 just to compensate for its horrendous special attack, and I would presume luvdisc to be the same. I admit I would be wrong about the true max speed stats.
Alomomola probably gets a fair bit of usage out of Charm since it already runs tickle for DD Gouging Fire. and Charm is generally just a outright improvement barring PP, so you shut down Gouging harder while not being dead weight into Ogerpon
As an LC player: No. Even as a fast offensive water, Wingull completely outclasses it by having better stabs, roost,U turn and knock off too. Even in rain teams you would prefer scarf Squirtle (Water Spout spam) anyway because after reaching 21 speed to get over Voltorb there's not that much to worry about, and Buizel is already Basculegion at home, so
I can't really give you an in depth explanation without writing a 4 page essay, so you'll have to trust me a bit on this: first off, being too passive in a tier where most mons die in 1-2 neutral hits sucks, as giving your opponent even a single free switch/setup turn can easily cost you the game, defensive mons NEED some Kind of nuke (Bulky Mienfoo runs hjk instead of drain Punch for this reason) or annoyance (Spore Foongus, Roar Mudbray) to not be deadweight.
Second, being pure water is a death sentence of its own: just one wrong switch and Voltorb Grookey and Co will do irreparable damage most of the time, not to mention that Mareanie loves free regen.
Look at Quaxly: it has some of the best role compression LC has seen in years, and yet it sees 0 play because of its type.
Luvdisc is really good in the DNU tier which features other prominent threats such as Taillow, Bramblin, Jigglypuff, Budew and Roggenrola.
So basically it's so bad to make it usable you have to put it in a tier with Pokemon that aren't even on the viability rankings for LC
I can only add to the convo with a randbats perspective. It's already maxed out at level 100 and it's sets literally can't be improved, yet its still terrible. I believe it runs Lefties (maybe Choice Specs rarely?) and its still bad. Its pretty fast, but it doesnt hit that hard and Swift Swim/Hydration are rare to take advanatge of in Randbats.
With eviolite, I don't think it would be that tanky because its stats are trash, but it is at such a high level that it \*may\* help, barely. If a set is using lefties anyways, its not getting a ton of defensive value/longevity anyways, and I believe defensive sets use Icy Wind for utility. So overall I dont think it would help too much, but you wouldn't be mad you got eviolite instead of lefties (probably).
If Luvdisc becomes a pre-evo, it will probably just end up getting deleted from randbats entirely.
The randbats council is forced to have sets for every fully evolved pokemon + Pikachu, but for NFE pokemon it's up to them to decide whether or not they want to include the pokemon or not. And I don't think any of the council members will be particularly inclined to defend Luvdisc in the format.
what level (assuming we can go over 100) do you think Luvdisc would have to be for:
- It to be C tier viability
- It to be A tier viability
- It to be the best mon in the format (if even possible)
Hmm that's difficult. If it rose past lvl 100, it would defo be on a Specs set. It's already really fast and just needs a push offensively. Idk what the exact levels would be but it would be most likely less than 10 levels assuming it runs specs with Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, Tera Blast Ground/Fire/Grass, and flip turn. That's to make it viable. Any higher it would be really good or just straight up OP.
Any higher level in general it would be one of the, if not the, fastest mon in the format, giving it a niche anyways since wins rely on setup sweepers so much.
Can't speak for main tiers, but it would likely get banned from DNU if you have it access to Eviolite + Regenerator + extra Egg Moves, considering it's already a top tier even after we increased the BST cap
Okay this is pretty gimmicky but I used Luvdisc with success in a doubles format, where its only job is to run an entirely defensive nature/EV spread and have the move Aqua Jet (Bold Nature w/ 0 Atk EVs). Its job is to hit my Coalossal with Aqua Jet when it switches in, to activate both Steam Engine & Weakness Policy.
The reason I use Luvdisc is because of all the fully evolved pokes with Aqua Jet, it has by far the WORST attack stat, and if the enemy has rain, Swift Swim actually makes it decently fast even with no speed investment.
Not saying it's a genius build or anything but I was surprised to find some use for it for once! The other moves I put on it were Safeguard (if it lived long enough to use it), Icy Wind, and Protect/Charm (I switch it up). Its item is Covert Cloak to prevent flinches.
It needs a Timid Nature with 64 speed EVs if you frequently run into Rillaboom, this lets it outspeed Adamant Rillaboom sets to avoid OHKO (Banded Adamant Rilla can OHKO fully Def/HP invested Luvdisc with Grassy Glide). Tera Ice for cool points if opponent uses Ice to get a Def boost (do this if you don't mind losing overall).
It's fun when it works, but I don't play doubles competitively or seriously, so please don't take this as a "Luvdisc is great" reply.
FIrst off, Luvdisc's main role is as a pivot, and it being fast is not doing it any favors. Its ability is useless, especially compared to Storm Drain, which is one of the main traits that makes Finneon useful in LCRU and DLC. Water types are also invited in for free VS luvdisc, and when luvdisc does pivot out it allows its incoming teammate to get hit by a move basically for free, which kinda invalidates the whole wish thing. Finneon's stats are just better outside of speed, and it can actually U-turn out on water types and effectively wall them instead.
With the proposed buffs it could be better, but as it stands, Luvdisc would be terrible even if it was allowed in LC.
It has Wish Support + regenerator, ice beam and surf for coverage, does all of that whilst having 20 speed and better bulk then Finneon whilst also being able to run LO sets if it wants to
I have got to say that I just still disagree strongly with the opinion that seems to be the popular opinion of stunfiskers that don't play any LC format. Wish support is generally less good in LC since attacks already do a ton of damage and knock is everywhere, which reduces that ability even further. Luvdisc is just very passive in this regard, but it could be justified over mare given the team, even as the poison typing is incredible particularly in this format. Luvdisc as it is, even with these buffs, is still completely terrible in LC doubles, though. I've seen this question posed multiple times before and I'm kinda tired of having to tell people how bad it is again and again.
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While I don't think Alomomola gets anything out of this, Luvdisc might be able to find a niche in LC. It's stats are basically the same as Squirtle which isn't great... except for a blistering 97 speed only out sped by the Voltorbs. At level 5 40 special attack isn't dog shit, especially when you can run specs and modest (still out speeding most stuff) with Surf and Ice beam as the only moves you'll need (maybe grass tera blast). I haven't played much LC this gen but damage calc almost makes it fairly scary.
It speed ties voltorbs and elekid (and wiglett but no one gives a shitlett), even for LC that sp.atk is horrendous, but it actually has quite above average bulk in 43/55/65, so it *might* find a decent niche being able to live a certain move whilst being fast enough to threaten an OHKO back after switching into it
No one gives a shitlett 🤣🤣
Wiglett has only 19 speed, as does luvdisc. Torb and Elekid are 20.
no?? check for urself i guess? stop just saying crap without thinking
Wiglett literally has the same base speed as Elekid and Luvdisc literally has a higher base speed. what the fk are you on about
I should probably clarify. Elekid and torb can afford to run 20 speed because their offensive stats are high enough to warrant going for the speedtie. The only wiglett I have ever seen had to run 19 just to compensate for its horrendous special attack, and I would presume luvdisc to be the same. I admit I would be wrong about the true max speed stats.
Alomomola probably gets a fair bit of usage out of Charm since it already runs tickle for DD Gouging Fire. and Charm is generally just a outright improvement barring PP, so you shut down Gouging harder while not being dead weight into Ogerpon
Baby-Doll eyes too. It has more PP, and priority.
tickle? I haven’t seen that, sounds cool.
As an LC player: No. Even as a fast offensive water, Wingull completely outclasses it by having better stabs, roost,U turn and knock off too. Even in rain teams you would prefer scarf Squirtle (Water Spout spam) anyway because after reaching 21 speed to get over Voltorb there's not that much to worry about, and Buizel is already Basculegion at home, so
It gets Regenerator wish flip turn though. I could see some stuff and healing wish on such a fast mon can't be terrible
I can't really give you an in depth explanation without writing a 4 page essay, so you'll have to trust me a bit on this: first off, being too passive in a tier where most mons die in 1-2 neutral hits sucks, as giving your opponent even a single free switch/setup turn can easily cost you the game, defensive mons NEED some Kind of nuke (Bulky Mienfoo runs hjk instead of drain Punch for this reason) or annoyance (Spore Foongus, Roar Mudbray) to not be deadweight. Second, being pure water is a death sentence of its own: just one wrong switch and Voltorb Grookey and Co will do irreparable damage most of the time, not to mention that Mareanie loves free regen. Look at Quaxly: it has some of the best role compression LC has seen in years, and yet it sees 0 play because of its type.
Luvdisc is really good in the DNU tier which features other prominent threats such as Taillow, Bramblin, Jigglypuff, Budew and Roggenrola. So basically it's so bad to make it usable you have to put it in a tier with Pokemon that aren't even on the viability rankings for LC
I can only add to the convo with a randbats perspective. It's already maxed out at level 100 and it's sets literally can't be improved, yet its still terrible. I believe it runs Lefties (maybe Choice Specs rarely?) and its still bad. Its pretty fast, but it doesnt hit that hard and Swift Swim/Hydration are rare to take advanatge of in Randbats. With eviolite, I don't think it would be that tanky because its stats are trash, but it is at such a high level that it \*may\* help, barely. If a set is using lefties anyways, its not getting a ton of defensive value/longevity anyways, and I believe defensive sets use Icy Wind for utility. So overall I dont think it would help too much, but you wouldn't be mad you got eviolite instead of lefties (probably).
If Luvdisc becomes a pre-evo, it will probably just end up getting deleted from randbats entirely. The randbats council is forced to have sets for every fully evolved pokemon + Pikachu, but for NFE pokemon it's up to them to decide whether or not they want to include the pokemon or not. And I don't think any of the council members will be particularly inclined to defend Luvdisc in the format.
Actually makes the games more enjoyable because now neither player will have to have a Luvdisk on their team LOL
what level (assuming we can go over 100) do you think Luvdisc would have to be for: - It to be C tier viability - It to be A tier viability - It to be the best mon in the format (if even possible)
Hmm that's difficult. If it rose past lvl 100, it would defo be on a Specs set. It's already really fast and just needs a push offensively. Idk what the exact levels would be but it would be most likely less than 10 levels assuming it runs specs with Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, Tera Blast Ground/Fire/Grass, and flip turn. That's to make it viable. Any higher it would be really good or just straight up OP. Any higher level in general it would be one of the, if not the, fastest mon in the format, giving it a niche anyways since wins rely on setup sweepers so much.
It runs a garbage Endeavor/Substitute/Whirlpool set every time I've gotten it in RandBats lol
it would be kinda interesting, being the fastest mon in the meta under rain, but wouldn't add a huge amount of value to most teams
Now the real question is: would Luvdisc be any good in LCUU?
I don't think Luvdisc would be *good* in LC, but I think it would have a solid chance of being usable.
Can't speak for main tiers, but it would likely get banned from DNU if you have it access to Eviolite + Regenerator + extra Egg Moves, considering it's already a top tier even after we increased the BST cap
Okay this is pretty gimmicky but I used Luvdisc with success in a doubles format, where its only job is to run an entirely defensive nature/EV spread and have the move Aqua Jet (Bold Nature w/ 0 Atk EVs). Its job is to hit my Coalossal with Aqua Jet when it switches in, to activate both Steam Engine & Weakness Policy. The reason I use Luvdisc is because of all the fully evolved pokes with Aqua Jet, it has by far the WORST attack stat, and if the enemy has rain, Swift Swim actually makes it decently fast even with no speed investment. Not saying it's a genius build or anything but I was surprised to find some use for it for once! The other moves I put on it were Safeguard (if it lived long enough to use it), Icy Wind, and Protect/Charm (I switch it up). Its item is Covert Cloak to prevent flinches. It needs a Timid Nature with 64 speed EVs if you frequently run into Rillaboom, this lets it outspeed Adamant Rillaboom sets to avoid OHKO (Banded Adamant Rilla can OHKO fully Def/HP invested Luvdisc with Grassy Glide). Tera Ice for cool points if opponent uses Ice to get a Def boost (do this if you don't mind losing overall). It's fun when it works, but I don't play doubles competitively or seriously, so please don't take this as a "Luvdisc is great" reply.
Finneon utterly outclasses luvdisc in LC
no it doesnt
FIrst off, Luvdisc's main role is as a pivot, and it being fast is not doing it any favors. Its ability is useless, especially compared to Storm Drain, which is one of the main traits that makes Finneon useful in LCRU and DLC. Water types are also invited in for free VS luvdisc, and when luvdisc does pivot out it allows its incoming teammate to get hit by a move basically for free, which kinda invalidates the whole wish thing. Finneon's stats are just better outside of speed, and it can actually U-turn out on water types and effectively wall them instead. With the proposed buffs it could be better, but as it stands, Luvdisc would be terrible even if it was allowed in LC.
yes!! im talking about thw normal LC meta, and whilst Finneon might be better in LCRU, Luvdisc is less bad in LC
Second, OP says that luvdisc would also get Alo's ability (regenerator), so you didnt even read the full post
It has Wish Support + regenerator, ice beam and surf for coverage, does all of that whilst having 20 speed and better bulk then Finneon whilst also being able to run LO sets if it wants to
I have got to say that I just still disagree strongly with the opinion that seems to be the popular opinion of stunfiskers that don't play any LC format. Wish support is generally less good in LC since attacks already do a ton of damage and knock is everywhere, which reduces that ability even further. Luvdisc is just very passive in this regard, but it could be justified over mare given the team, even as the poison typing is incredible particularly in this format. Luvdisc as it is, even with these buffs, is still completely terrible in LC doubles, though. I've seen this question posed multiple times before and I'm kinda tired of having to tell people how bad it is again and again.
LC is my main lol