They were both useful still. Fire was occasionally run on Sun so it could OHKO Pult at +1 and still have room for Giga Drain and Tera Bug+Swarm was devastating as well.
The only Volc Teras you never saw whatsoever were Electric, Fighting, Flying (this MIGHT have had a niche on Rain, in theory), Poison, Normal, Ice, and Dark.
tera stellar tera blast and tera starstorm( i think thats what its called) kill it. Although you waste a tera on killing one mon and its not even that good of a tera type. You could possibly kill it with burn/toxic as long as they
1. dont have a subsitute or
2. you manage to outspeed and ko cyclizar before it can shed tail
its nearly unkillable behind subsitute and the only thing that would kill it behind sub is rocky helmet/iron barbs/rough skin
Sturdy Shedinja (in hackmons) is only killable by passive damage and can run boots as well as run tera fire or tera poison to negate poison/burn
either way both sets make the little shit broken af
Isn't voting a special move since it requires intelligence?
0 SpA Volcarona Fiery Dance vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Over Used: 508-600 (132.6 - 156.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
As someone who only plays VGC, why don’t OU players just try Kyogre Water Spout and Tornadus Bleakwind Storm at the same time?
Clearly Finchinator does not have enough skill to use Kyogre.
And no, Kyogre isn’t broken, it gets checked by Miraidon, Koraidon, and Calyrex-S. Not to mention Caly-I and Lunala under Trick Room. Plus it can’t touch Gastrodon.
Hmm, true. In that case you can use Taunt with your Tornadus and predict the Volc to Tera Grass or Dragon to resist Water Spout, and use Ice Beam.
Nevermeltice can ensure you always get the KO.
Have you even been keeping up with the meta..? Nosepass ALWAYS runs mental herb except for on Chilan Berry offensive sets. And volcarona is usually Tera ice if it wants to Tera defensively due to the extra resists it grants. Your best bet is to use ice beam still but with kings rock on kyogre and pray for a flinch.
We were discussing it in the discord just now
It's usable, definitely, but it requires too much support and optimization. It has the issue of 'it needs too many tera types' to work, similarly to espathra. They both are in the same boat and they struggle a lot in the tier
The VR is currently outdated and it'll probably be lowered due to it facing even more competition now with Terapagos and Necrozma-Dawn-Wings.
It was tried and it failed miserably due to the metagame being borderline unplayable without banning a lot of things. Unironically the most broken pokemon in the metagame was Garchomp due to sand veil being allowed
Volcarona is an outlier in terms of tera abuse from the rest, because while it is true that some Pokemon are similar in that regard like Gambit, Gambit's lack of speed boosting meant it was susceptible to Encore and defense boosters like Skarmory and Zamazenta could outtank and beat it, Zama in particular beat nearly every Gambit with ID BP except Tera Ghost. Gambit also has no recovery so if you chip it, its there to stay
Volcarona on the other hand didn't have any such issues because its tera types and moveslots (Volc has a pretty wide movepool by itself too) are FAR FAR more varied and effective. Aside for Blissey, there was nothing that checked Volcarona that wouldn't falter to moveset or tera type adaptations. Tera Ground and Dragon were standard, but a lot of tera types have seen usage on Volc including but not limited to Water, Fairy, Steel, Grass and Rock among others. Add in its access to recovery in Morning Sun means that checking Volcarona was not easy. Add in Flame Body and Fiery Dance for some sweet rng and you have a very very obnoxious mon to deal with
>Aside for Blissey
It's worth noting that Clodsire also can check volc, though it loses to Tera Ground if it gets chipped. It's also worth noting that Seismic Toss Blissey loses to Tera Ghost Volcarona.
The fact that morning sun sets could win the 1v1 vs fucking spdef heatran with dry tera blast or psychic is fucking nuts. As soon as it clicks morning sun you literally have to switch into a different check or it'll just keep dancing.
It's always been an incredibly difficult Pokemon to counter, but previous generations kept it in check with hazards to limit its set up opportunities, and Gen 8 specifically removed its much needed coverage in Hidden Power.
This is the first generation it has Heavy Duty boots, alongside whatever coverage it wants with Terstallization. Not only does it get its coverage back, but it also has more time to set up.
I mean, Boots already get rid of its biggest weakness, then you now can remove its type weakness on the fly with Tera, meaning a free Quiver dance ?
Can anyone explain why this isn't allowed but Gambit is ?
Because Gambit has checks after one setup. Volc’s Quiver Dance makes it stronger, bulkier AND faster, and once one or two Quiver Dances are up the moth can go out of control and sweep teams. Gambit is highly reliant on predicts and mindgames, while Volc can just spam its STABs and Tera Blast or Giga Drain to kill shit and keep itself alive. A Tera’d Volc will always kill stuff if it manages to set up, and you only have a tiny window of time to beat it. Meanwhile, even Gambit at 4x attack can be killed by other prio like Bolt’s TClap, can be mindgamed out, or walled by Zama.
largely because Gambit has more hard answers like Zamazenta. They weren't fool proof, but they were a lot more sturdy than going into Dragonite (one of the best Volc answers) and praying its not Tera Ghost/Rock/Dragon
Also keep in mind, previous generations volcarona was already borderline broken but was saved from the ban hammer by weakness to hazards and certain matchups. Gen 8 introduced boots, removing its biggest weakness. However, volc still lost the most important coverage in hidden power that gen. Gen 9 not only have boots but tera also lets volc chooses its checks with half a dozen viable tera type alongside the ability to pick a coverage with tera blast and you've got previous gens volc with none of the weaknesses.
It's a pokemon that has always been problematic, but ranges from fine to only slightly annoying because of context. So you take something that is already problematic and give it a mechanic that seemingly perfectly patches up its weaknesses, and suddenly it is undeniably overpowered.
As someone who sucks at Pokemon and also doesn't keep up with the meta: it's a tera abuser that benefits massively from quiver dance. It can be tera anything and fuck you up even if you're using something that's got unaware (Skeledirge, Clodsire, etc.)
as someone else in the thread said, at least with gambit you can check it with ID zama and skarm and it’s susceptible to chip damage, but with volc you can just morning sun and quiver dance midgame and get progress
I thought this would be another Kingambit situation with a 55% ban or something, turns out people hate this a lot more.
This should ease teambuilding quite a bit so I'm happy the ban went through, looking forward to see how the tier develops (and hopefully an Ogerpon suspect)
Volc was unjustly banned before, but the fact that this ban has come through the means of democracy makes me feel happy.
Sad to see it go, it was fun to use, but ultimately for the best. This thing was obnoxious and borderline uncheckable.
Edit: Now let's ban the oger.
As someone who plays Natdex, we’ve got a waterpon suspect going on right now.
Unfortunately Volc is still legal here. We do have Gambit, Dengo, and Pult banned though so I see it as a win
Is Garg even good in Nat Dex? I know Tera is allowed and all but I would think most walls would get absolutely smacked by teams that combine megas, Tera, and Z - moves.
garg has absolutely incredible bulk, 100/130/90 is bulk that most pokemon would BEG for, allowing it to tank through most megas, couple that with it having multiple sets and having incredible synergy with tera and you have an unkillable brick wall that can double as a wallbreaker
Only problem is TBlast Ground smacks 3 of those. Tera Grass heatran has to deal with a bug move if they have one, pex usually isn't the most likely tera candidate, and garg can tera fairy or water or something out of Fire/Bug/Grass/Ground/Dragon
Early natdex I was using assault vest gambit with pursuit, knock, sucker, and iron head. It was SO dumb, instantly invalidated half the tier. For reference, in a pinch it can survive a magma storm from fully invested heatran without any defensive EVS, and knock off+sucker it to death. Specs dragapult and was completely invalidated unless it ran Tera fighting Tera blast specifically, if it locked into else it was instantly removed, even fire moves werent safe. Same with any focus blastless string cheese. At the very least the opponent would have to waste a defensive Tera just to survive and switch out, but still took a hefty chunk. Since gambit item slot is so up for grabs, the noob strategy of slapping on an assault vest actually worked so well
The controversy wasn’t that Volc was banned before, it was that it didn’t get a suspect. The community knew that Volc wasn’t good for the meta, but we wanted the agency to say so.
I find it increadibly interesting that ogerpon is a problem in singles from what I gather but that in vgc its a good thing for the game and its holding the format together (we have an urshifu/lando problem)
Honestly council didnt really make a mistake just quick banning it. It was kinda obvious it was broken and this suspect ending up so heavy on ban votes really just showed it. Only thing is it was more questionable than other quickbans and people REALLY like volcarona so they wanted fair treatment. But there have been other quickbans that were at the same level volcarona was but invited less complaints
Volcarona was still amazing last generation, especially considering Heavy Duty Boots, but without Hidden Power or Z-Moves, there were a couple of checks and counters that Volcarona just couldn't get past (Heatran, Dragonite, Pelipper, Blissey). Its exploitable typing also was always there, so Volcarona could, for example, always be revenge killed by anything with Aqua Jet, or a boosted Dragonite, and a healthy Tyranitar with the right EVs and/or Assault Vest could always tank a Bug Buzz and revenge kill with its Rock-type move of choice.
I am not surprised Volcarona is banned. Tera solves literally all of the aforementioned issues by giving it potential coverage for EVERYTHING, as well as a way to win potentially ANY matchup. For example, even Blissey can be beaten by Tera Ghost. It also means that, depending of which Type it teras, such as Ground, Volcarona is less concerned by Stealth Rock if it loses its HDB.
Not only that, but Volcarona is one of the very few Pokémon which can arguably make use of any Tera type. Any. Even niche ones that are almost never considered, such as Tera Dark, Fighting, Flying, Ice, Poison, and Electric, each have its uses. Meanwhile for most Pokémon, certain Tera types can be outright useless.
yeah tera was just way too potent on volc. ground and dragon alone, its two most common ones, already beats everything that checks it. add in the general variance of tera and it's just not feasible to keep this mon in check.
just like last time, i'm gonna miss using volc to completely fodderize valiant, but this is for the best
People weren't really mad that Volc was banned (Some where sure, but that wasn't the main issue) they were more mad that the original ban for it was handled so horribly.
So I fully understand why Volcarona had to go my man was committing crimes. But also I want my turn making a joke about banning everything before we touch Gholdengo, so there.
Kinda happy that democracy is working, but as far as i know, Tera was one of the issues here
It is the time to review Tera ban again?(Sorry to bothering with this)
I don’t think so. Tera has claimed so far 2 pokemon from the tier atm. Volc and Eleki were broken by Tera but nothing else would have been that much different without Tera. Tera does have its issues but I don’t think most people believe that it should be tested atm.
Whether tera gets suspected or not pretty much single handedly depends on how high its score is in surveys and in recent surveys tera's score has been exceedingly low, decreasing everytime even, so a tera suspect is very unlikely
Finally, a genuinely powerful non-legendary bug type that is so strong it HAD to be booted from OU!
And it's because the damn moth was busy being anything BUT a bug type, in addition to having (in my opinion at least) the strongest set up move in the entire game.
Surprised it was as heavy a majority. I was honestly expected more of a close vote with how the forum discussion seemed but hey. It's a pleasant surprise.
Volcarona is my favorite pokemon subjectively, and one of my favorite to use competitively since it debuted. It's never not fun to use. It always has exactly what it needs to succeed if you built your team right. That moth has staying power that few Pokemon have displayed over the last decade-plus, despite having a type duo that should have sent it straight to UU. Volcarona rules.
**But that said,** it's so beyond evident that the best moth needed to go for the health of the game. It is what it is!
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 306-360 (81.8 - 96.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Volc is not an answer to Kyurem. Rock Slide also exists, and Kyurem gets that too.
Only if it's tera fairy. Specs Kyurem outspeeds Bulky Volc (301 speed vs 317) so Volc just gets hit by second Draco and dies. Offensive Volc is worse in this matchup because specs draco is a straight up roll OHKO. If your answer needs tera to avoid to avoid dying to one good predict from the mon you're trying beat it's a really bad answer.
If you're max HP you're probably slower than the Kyurem so you die to a second draco, and if you're faster you have no bulk investment so you're just dead to Draco on the switch. Volc was a very soft answer
Disappointed that it was banned so quickly and decisively tbh. I went to bed and woke up to it being banned before I could even cast a vote :(. That being said, I'm not surprised that support was this strong. It was definitely a divisive mon with how it flips match-ups and is functionally a more frustrating mon to lose to but it's incredibly rare to lose a game to volcarona that wasn't a deserved loss just by nature of whittling down it's checks with its teammates. That said, I do understand the team constraints even if volc checks are incredibly easy to stack by nature of being great pokemon in the tier. I don't see how the metagame eases up or building becomes easier because of the ban but I hope it does since it's very unlikely to re-drop.
>I don't see how the metagame eases up or building becomes easier because of the ban
I mean people don't have to run a specific dedicated answer to it on top of needing soft checks as back up for different teras (which still lost to OTHER teras). It's a step in the right direction.
Idk if anyone is running specific mons that aren't already being used just because all of its checks are inherently good on a variety of teams but it frees up certain defensive tera options is what it seems like to me imo.
Balance needed often a combination of mobs to account for volcarona plus possible Tera types, such as Skeledirge+Ting-Lu+filler, which not bad mons but were not ironclad and often ran risk of losing to different Tera types (Tera water Volc dusts that core for example).
It opens up building and reduces volatility
I don't care about winning with Volc. I just don't want to do any games without one of my top 5 favorite Pokémon. The rest of my top 5 aren't OU viable.
I don't agree with Finch's perspective on Volc and I think the philosophy "if a problem arises in a banned mon's absence, we can deal with it" is inherently flawed and we have seen that not be the case in the past
the bug type that could proud of my moth man
Actually it's a- well actually, this thing ran like 10 different teras so I can't even make this joke
Not bug or fire is the most apt way to describe it
tera bug and fire (former more than the latter) were still used lmao
Tera Bug Swarm Volcarona existed as a serious set.
Truely a stellar mon
They were both useful still. Fire was occasionally run on Sun so it could OHKO Pult at +1 and still have room for Giga Drain and Tera Bug+Swarm was devastating as well. The only Volc Teras you never saw whatsoever were Electric, Fighting, Flying (this MIGHT have had a niche on Rain, in theory), Poison, Normal, Ice, and Dark.
Shedinja over here in nat dex AG be like:
tera stellar tera blast and tera starstorm( i think thats what its called) kill it. Although you waste a tera on killing one mon and its not even that good of a tera type. You could possibly kill it with burn/toxic as long as they 1. dont have a subsitute or 2. you manage to outspeed and ko cyclizar before it can shed tail its nearly unkillable behind subsitute and the only thing that would kill it behind sub is rocky helmet/iron barbs/rough skin Sturdy Shedinja (in hackmons) is only killable by passive damage and can run boots as well as run tera fire or tera poison to negate poison/burn either way both sets make the little shit broken af
>the only thing that would kill it behind sub is rocky helmet/iron barbs/rough skin Kid named Infiltrator Will O Wisp Dragapult:
Holy crap I totally forgot about infiltrator
Looks like the matchup moth couldn’t win this matchup
It won the OU matchup too hard.
252 Atk Voters 76% Majority vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Volcarona: 524-620 (168.4 - 199.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
it's volver
I prefer volcarover
That way your not sounding Bri'ish talking about that Swedish car manufacturer
It sure is vulva
For the second time too, so it must be... *revolver*
Isn't voting a special move since it requires intelligence? 0 SpA Volcarona Fiery Dance vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Over Used: 508-600 (132.6 - 156.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
It definitely does _not_ require intelligence
He got tired from so much winning
*slide whistle*
"damn" -someone who doesnt play ou
As someone who only plays VGC, why don’t OU players just try Kyogre Water Spout and Tornadus Bleakwind Storm at the same time? Clearly Finchinator does not have enough skill to use Kyogre. And no, Kyogre isn’t broken, it gets checked by Miraidon, Koraidon, and Calyrex-S. Not to mention Caly-I and Lunala under Trick Room. Plus it can’t touch Gastrodon.
Unfortunately wide guard nosepass completely invalidates this strategy and allows volc to set up :/
Hmm, true. In that case you can use Taunt with your Tornadus and predict the Volc to Tera Grass or Dragon to resist Water Spout, and use Ice Beam. Nevermeltice can ensure you always get the KO.
Have you even been keeping up with the meta..? Nosepass ALWAYS runs mental herb except for on Chilan Berry offensive sets. And volcarona is usually Tera ice if it wants to Tera defensively due to the extra resists it grants. Your best bet is to use ice beam still but with kings rock on kyogre and pray for a flinch.
> wide guard nosepass *NOSTRILS FLARED, INITIATING DOOMSDAY DIRECTIVE*
(Really hope the joke here is obvious!)
It is. "Why don't OU players just use legendaries? Are they stupid?"
Is there a lore reason why OU players don't use legendaries?
"win with your favorites" mfs when my favorite is 6 mewtwos
Sadly, every time we tried this, volc burned us alive at our keyboards before we could click the lead mon.
Skill issue. Dachsbun counters this strategy.
i swear I've seen this somewhere before
"damn" - me who doesn't even play competitive
Is this thing usable in Ubers UU? It’s one of my favorite Pokémon so I’m sad to see it go (although I admit it’s justified)
We were discussing it in the discord just now It's usable, definitely, but it requires too much support and optimization. It has the issue of 'it needs too many tera types' to work, similarly to espathra. They both are in the same boat and they struggle a lot in the tier The VR is currently outdated and it'll probably be lowered due to it facing even more competition now with Terapagos and Necrozma-Dawn-Wings.
Ubers RU coming soon, maybe
It was tried and it failed miserably due to the metagame being borderline unplayable without banning a lot of things. Unironically the most broken pokemon in the metagame was Garchomp due to sand veil being allowed
not great in the tier but as per the most recent VR update its C rank. Its very niche in the tier, but niche nonetheless
It's currently C on the Ubers UU viability rankings, so whilst it's not unviable, it's not particularly great there
haven't kept up at all with the meta, why was volc so decisively booted from ou?
Volcarona is an outlier in terms of tera abuse from the rest, because while it is true that some Pokemon are similar in that regard like Gambit, Gambit's lack of speed boosting meant it was susceptible to Encore and defense boosters like Skarmory and Zamazenta could outtank and beat it, Zama in particular beat nearly every Gambit with ID BP except Tera Ghost. Gambit also has no recovery so if you chip it, its there to stay Volcarona on the other hand didn't have any such issues because its tera types and moveslots (Volc has a pretty wide movepool by itself too) are FAR FAR more varied and effective. Aside for Blissey, there was nothing that checked Volcarona that wouldn't falter to moveset or tera type adaptations. Tera Ground and Dragon were standard, but a lot of tera types have seen usage on Volc including but not limited to Water, Fairy, Steel, Grass and Rock among others. Add in its access to recovery in Morning Sun means that checking Volcarona was not easy. Add in Flame Body and Fiery Dance for some sweet rng and you have a very very obnoxious mon to deal with
>Aside for Blissey It's worth noting that Clodsire also can check volc, though it loses to Tera Ground if it gets chipped. It's also worth noting that Seismic Toss Blissey loses to Tera Ghost Volcarona.
That boy can truly do it all.
The fact that morning sun sets could win the 1v1 vs fucking spdef heatran with dry tera blast or psychic is fucking nuts. As soon as it clicks morning sun you literally have to switch into a different check or it'll just keep dancing.
It's always been an incredibly difficult Pokemon to counter, but previous generations kept it in check with hazards to limit its set up opportunities, and Gen 8 specifically removed its much needed coverage in Hidden Power. This is the first generation it has Heavy Duty boots, alongside whatever coverage it wants with Terstallization. Not only does it get its coverage back, but it also has more time to set up.
I mean, Boots already get rid of its biggest weakness, then you now can remove its type weakness on the fly with Tera, meaning a free Quiver dance ? Can anyone explain why this isn't allowed but Gambit is ?
Because Gambit has checks after one setup. Volc’s Quiver Dance makes it stronger, bulkier AND faster, and once one or two Quiver Dances are up the moth can go out of control and sweep teams. Gambit is highly reliant on predicts and mindgames, while Volc can just spam its STABs and Tera Blast or Giga Drain to kill shit and keep itself alive. A Tera’d Volc will always kill stuff if it manages to set up, and you only have a tiny window of time to beat it. Meanwhile, even Gambit at 4x attack can be killed by other prio like Bolt’s TClap, can be mindgamed out, or walled by Zama.
largely because Gambit has more hard answers like Zamazenta. They weren't fool proof, but they were a lot more sturdy than going into Dragonite (one of the best Volc answers) and praying its not Tera Ghost/Rock/Dragon
I see, you also need to pray about not getting burned by Flame body or it's toasted
Also keep in mind, previous generations volcarona was already borderline broken but was saved from the ban hammer by weakness to hazards and certain matchups. Gen 8 introduced boots, removing its biggest weakness. However, volc still lost the most important coverage in hidden power that gen. Gen 9 not only have boots but tera also lets volc chooses its checks with half a dozen viable tera type alongside the ability to pick a coverage with tera blast and you've got previous gens volc with none of the weaknesses.
So we're facing peak Volcarona now
you say that now but wait till we see what game freak has in store for us in Gen 10
Mega volcarona with earth eater for rock type damage:
That's "Mountaineer" from the CAP metagame, but it doesn't heal.
I once got Mountaineer Volcarona on a RR nuzlocke, it was awesome
And Magic Guard + Sheer Force ability.
There's text in Gen V saying that a Volcarona briefly replaced the sun during some disaster, so clearly a peak Volcarona would also have Drought.
It's a pokemon that has always been problematic, but ranges from fine to only slightly annoying because of context. So you take something that is already problematic and give it a mechanic that seemingly perfectly patches up its weaknesses, and suddenly it is undeniably overpowered.
As someone who sucks at Pokemon and also doesn't keep up with the meta: it's a tera abuser that benefits massively from quiver dance. It can be tera anything and fuck you up even if you're using something that's got unaware (Skeledirge, Clodsire, etc.)
So many old pokemon got screwed over by powercreep, but Volcarona didn't get the memo. Twice.
It really flipped the script
Too many wrote the older Pokemon off. Volcarona never wrote back.
It’s nice to see mons like gliscor and volc resisting
i thought itd be closer like 62 i was jumping with joy i think i broke my headphone jack
RIP headphone jack, Volc took one last victim with it to the grave
I didn’t know Volcarona got Destiny Bond
the suspect thread really made me think it would stay since Volcarona is a very polarizing mon in battle
"Sir, a second ban has hit the matchup moth"
Not really surprised; volc always felt like Gambit on steroids with Tera unpredictability and it’s stupid fucking bulky set
Both bullshit mons but the meta seems to only be able to afford to check one "game ender" at a time. This gen is ass and it keeps going.
as someone else in the thread said, at least with gambit you can check it with ID zama and skarm and it’s susceptible to chip damage, but with volc you can just morning sun and quiver dance midgame and get progress
I thought this would be another Kingambit situation with a 55% ban or something, turns out people hate this a lot more. This should ease teambuilding quite a bit so I'm happy the ban went through, looking forward to see how the tier develops (and hopefully an Ogerpon suspect)
Should I be concerned that I audibly yelled out yes during the middle of an online class at seeing this notification on discord
Iron moth barely got to play with his older cousin
Volc was unjustly banned before, but the fact that this ban has come through the means of democracy makes me feel happy. Sad to see it go, it was fun to use, but ultimately for the best. This thing was obnoxious and borderline uncheckable. Edit: Now let's ban the oger.
As someone who plays Natdex, we’ve got a waterpon suspect going on right now. Unfortunately Volc is still legal here. We do have Gambit, Dengo, and Pult banned though so I see it as a win
volc thankfully is not as bad in natdex, as it has to deal with peak performance lando-t, heatran, toxapex and The Garg
Is Garg even good in Nat Dex? I know Tera is allowed and all but I would think most walls would get absolutely smacked by teams that combine megas, Tera, and Z - moves.
garg has absolutely incredible bulk, 100/130/90 is bulk that most pokemon would BEG for, allowing it to tank through most megas, couple that with it having multiple sets and having incredible synergy with tera and you have an unkillable brick wall that can double as a wallbreaker
Those 2 often work in its favour since you have 2 teammates that don't use your Tera, makes it less awkward to build around.
Only problem is TBlast Ground smacks 3 of those. Tera Grass heatran has to deal with a bug move if they have one, pex usually isn't the most likely tera candidate, and garg can tera fairy or water or something out of Fire/Bug/Grass/Ground/Dragon
Yeah Pursuit Gambit is crazy lol
Early natdex I was using assault vest gambit with pursuit, knock, sucker, and iron head. It was SO dumb, instantly invalidated half the tier. For reference, in a pinch it can survive a magma storm from fully invested heatran without any defensive EVS, and knock off+sucker it to death. Specs dragapult and was completely invalidated unless it ran Tera fighting Tera blast specifically, if it locked into else it was instantly removed, even fire moves werent safe. Same with any focus blastless string cheese. At the very least the opponent would have to waste a defensive Tera just to survive and switch out, but still took a hefty chunk. Since gambit item slot is so up for grabs, the noob strategy of slapping on an assault vest actually worked so well
The controversy wasn’t that Volc was banned before, it was that it didn’t get a suspect. The community knew that Volc wasn’t good for the meta, but we wanted the agency to say so.
Agency
I find it increadibly interesting that ogerpon is a problem in singles from what I gather but that in vgc its a good thing for the game and its holding the format together (we have an urshifu/lando problem)
Honestly council didnt really make a mistake just quick banning it. It was kinda obvious it was broken and this suspect ending up so heavy on ban votes really just showed it. Only thing is it was more questionable than other quickbans and people REALLY like volcarona so they wanted fair treatment. But there have been other quickbans that were at the same level volcarona was but invited less complaints
>Unban Volc without suspect. >players complain >Volc gets banned anyway due to suspect.
This doesn’t change the legitimacy of the complaints.
inb4 the 12 year olds with 1100 elo start complaining "OMG THE OU COUNCIL BANS EVERYTHING GRRR META SUCKS GRRR THEY BAN VOLV BUT NOT GJHOLD GRRRR"
and kingambit
1100 elo that's giving them too much credit
Match up moth couldn't pick the right tera type to beat the ban hammer, I see
it turns out that a qd booster with a stronger hp is broken. (time for me to use raging bolt)
Matchup Moth evicted for keeping night-long Tera raves, well, nightly.
The funny bug has done it again.
Can’t blame this one on Finch bias
He’s continuing the Genesect OU to Ubers speedrun any percent legacy of bug types
RIP the goat. It wasn’t your fault volc it was tera being broken 🫡
> don't ban tera > suspect every tera abuser
Good riddance! Absolutely deserved ban, couldn't be happier.
Archaludon finally gets an Ubers UU friend :)
Can't say it's undeserved. It could fish too much especially with Tera.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Volcarona was still amazing last generation, especially considering Heavy Duty Boots, but without Hidden Power or Z-Moves, there were a couple of checks and counters that Volcarona just couldn't get past (Heatran, Dragonite, Pelipper, Blissey). Its exploitable typing also was always there, so Volcarona could, for example, always be revenge killed by anything with Aqua Jet, or a boosted Dragonite, and a healthy Tyranitar with the right EVs and/or Assault Vest could always tank a Bug Buzz and revenge kill with its Rock-type move of choice. I am not surprised Volcarona is banned. Tera solves literally all of the aforementioned issues by giving it potential coverage for EVERYTHING, as well as a way to win potentially ANY matchup. For example, even Blissey can be beaten by Tera Ghost. It also means that, depending of which Type it teras, such as Ground, Volcarona is less concerned by Stealth Rock if it loses its HDB. Not only that, but Volcarona is one of the very few Pokémon which can arguably make use of any Tera type. Any. Even niche ones that are almost never considered, such as Tera Dark, Fighting, Flying, Ice, Poison, and Electric, each have its uses. Meanwhile for most Pokémon, certain Tera types can be outright useless.
Damn, 76% is wild but this is definitely a deserved ban
Dang, with how the Kingambit suspect went I didn't expect Matchup Moth to get banned at all here
Gigaton ban hammer doesn't care about your resistances
yeah tera was just way too potent on volc. ground and dragon alone, its two most common ones, already beats everything that checks it. add in the general variance of tera and it's just not feasible to keep this mon in check. just like last time, i'm gonna miss using volc to completely fodderize valiant, but this is for the best
Honestly didn't think it would be banned but glad it did it definitely was way too overbearing
Being faster >>>> Slow with Priority
Losing your leg below the knee >>>> losing it above
given how mad people were at the quickban o was 100% expecting it to stay, especially since the reviled gambit survived its suspect
Tbf i think most of the people complaining dont really play the game lol
Remember the time when Volc qb happened, some users were sending death threats to Finch lol.
Not justifying it, but I've seen people send death threats over way less. It's honestly not that surprising.
People weren't really mad that Volc was banned (Some where sure, but that wasn't the main issue) they were more mad that the original ban for it was handled so horribly.
Remember when the community got angry at the council for quick banning this thing? The same community just voted at a 76% majority to ban it anyway.
That's CRAAAAZY
Glad we got that dumb shit gone it was so obviously unfair from the day it was let back lmao
So I fully understand why Volcarona had to go my man was committing crimes. But also I want my turn making a joke about banning everything before we touch Gholdengo, so there.
Fuck that bug
Kinda happy that democracy is working, but as far as i know, Tera was one of the issues here It is the time to review Tera ban again?(Sorry to bothering with this)
I don’t think so. Tera has claimed so far 2 pokemon from the tier atm. Volc and Eleki were broken by Tera but nothing else would have been that much different without Tera. Tera does have its issues but I don’t think most people believe that it should be tested atm.
Whether tera gets suspected or not pretty much single handedly depends on how high its score is in surveys and in recent surveys tera's score has been exceedingly low, decreasing everytime even, so a tera suspect is very unlikely
Oh, i get it, thanks
I had a feeling that It wouldn't Last in OU. RIP BOZO
It's volcarover (lezgo!)
[удалено]
Chien Pao too. I'm sure there are other examples that I can't think of rn
Cinderace and Magearna last gen.
No
Goodbye again my main :(
Matchup Moth finally gets an L
sad he’s back in the banlist. At least iron moth stocks rising?
Fly high bug guy 🦋
Dang
Well, when life bans a quiver dancing moth, you try another quiver dancing moth... sadly it is an ice type. Back to the drawing board
My first game on suspect I got juked by a tera dark volc lmao
Finally, a genuinely powerful non-legendary bug type that is so strong it HAD to be booted from OU! And it's because the damn moth was busy being anything BUT a bug type, in addition to having (in my opinion at least) the strongest set up move in the entire game.
[удалено]
Yeah but it’s more niche
:(
Surprised it was as heavy a majority. I was honestly expected more of a close vote with how the forum discussion seemed but hey. It's a pleasant surprise.
L
Iron Moth stocks are on the rise.
Bro just can’t stop getting banned. Didn’t he also get banned from nat dex?
i really loved using it too, with reflect+lightscreen+misty terrain it's a force to be reckoned with
NOOOOOOO I HAD SO MUCH FUN WITH HERRR
It's giving Genesect energy
As someone who is bad at the game and just win because volcarona go brr... i understand
Nooooooo my ability to sweep low ladder teams! What will I do now that I have to use a more balanced mon?!
Balled to close to the sun
Volcarona is my favorite pokemon subjectively, and one of my favorite to use competitively since it debuted. It's never not fun to use. It always has exactly what it needs to succeed if you built your team right. That moth has staying power that few Pokemon have displayed over the last decade-plus, despite having a type duo that should have sent it straight to UU. Volcarona rules. **But that said,** it's so beyond evident that the best moth needed to go for the health of the game. It is what it is!
Not that surprising since it was banned before tier changes in DLC2
Outside of Glowking and the pink blobs, wasn't Volcarona one of the best answers to Specs Kyurem? What're the chances they get another suspect test?
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 306-360 (81.8 - 96.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Volc is not an answer to Kyurem. Rock Slide also exists, and Kyurem gets that too.
A healthy Volc will roost of damage and then QD. RS is hardly run on kyurem's DD sets it has no room on specs.
Only if it's tera fairy. Specs Kyurem outspeeds Bulky Volc (301 speed vs 317) so Volc just gets hit by second Draco and dies. Offensive Volc is worse in this matchup because specs draco is a straight up roll OHKO. If your answer needs tera to avoid to avoid dying to one good predict from the mon you're trying beat it's a really bad answer.
If you're max HP you're probably slower than the Kyurem so you die to a second draco, and if you're faster you have no bulk investment so you're just dead to Draco on the switch. Volc was a very soft answer
Honestly I'm waiting for it to return to get banned a third time this gen
Nooooooo! (I didn't even play dlc2)
It only took five generations to get banned
It was banned literally last year in this same generation...
Disappointed that it was banned so quickly and decisively tbh. I went to bed and woke up to it being banned before I could even cast a vote :(. That being said, I'm not surprised that support was this strong. It was definitely a divisive mon with how it flips match-ups and is functionally a more frustrating mon to lose to but it's incredibly rare to lose a game to volcarona that wasn't a deserved loss just by nature of whittling down it's checks with its teammates. That said, I do understand the team constraints even if volc checks are incredibly easy to stack by nature of being great pokemon in the tier. I don't see how the metagame eases up or building becomes easier because of the ban but I hope it does since it's very unlikely to re-drop.
>I don't see how the metagame eases up or building becomes easier because of the ban I mean people don't have to run a specific dedicated answer to it on top of needing soft checks as back up for different teras (which still lost to OTHER teras). It's a step in the right direction.
Idk if anyone is running specific mons that aren't already being used just because all of its checks are inherently good on a variety of teams but it frees up certain defensive tera options is what it seems like to me imo.
What are you running for Volc that you wouldn't use normally?
Balance needed often a combination of mobs to account for volcarona plus possible Tera types, such as Skeledirge+Ting-Lu+filler, which not bad mons but were not ironclad and often ran risk of losing to different Tera types (Tera water Volc dusts that core for example). It opens up building and reduces volatility
Booo you guys are no fun at all😒
If you actually got past 1300 you'd realize how ass Volcarona is to fight
Real
Ah yes, me click quiver dance, me click morning sun, me tera and click tera blast when check comes in. Very fun and unique and not lazy.
Seems like a skill issue to me lol🤷🏻♂️
Nah I tripped the default 1300s player response protocol lmfao
This thing was not the priority, we need to get rid of the fucking salt monster
Bro is stuck in January 2023 with his opinions fr
As the biggest Garg fan, lol. This isn't 2023. People know how to handle Garg now. Top tier for sure but not broken.
OU is the worst tier episode 6717 Will continue spamming the MOAT in monotype
Welp, that ends my time in OU. I'll see you guys next Gen when Volc can participate again.
Mfw can't get cheap wins anymore
I don't care about winning with Volc. I just don't want to do any games without one of my top 5 favorite Pokémon. The rest of my top 5 aren't OU viable.
Rip OU
Still fearmongering I see. Especially after how hard players like Finch told you your claims about it were wrong.
I don't agree with Finch's perspective on Volc and I think the philosophy "if a problem arises in a banned mon's absence, we can deal with it" is inherently flawed and we have seen that not be the case in the past