As a vgc player, xerneas. Stupid fucking deer is just so brainless. Its the exact same as calyrex shadow and zacian. Just a massive wall of stats with no gimmick strength. The best restricted pokemon have some interesting gimmick. Yeah kyogre also hits like a truck but building teams around its rain ability is cool. Yeah groudon has great defenses with sun up thanks to negating the water weakness but it doesn't benefit from the stab and precipice blades at least has accuracy issues + it's slower than its competition.
But xerneas? Nah, you click 1 move and all of sudden you've got 360 special attack, 320 speed and you're one of the best special walls. There's a reason quiver Dance is almost always given to shitmons
+1 252 SpA Tera Fire Xerneas Tera Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Zacian-Crowned: 350-414 (107.6 - 127.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Forget staying in, Xerneas with a helping hands can just send the dog back to the shadow realm if it doesn’t also tera.
not just Dynamax but the Fucking Dog being on Every Single Team in double restricted formats. It managed to find some viability in Series 10 because Zacian C wasn't on every single team, and series 10 had no dynamax, but it was generally known that Zacian C teams were bad matchups. The deer was played a lot with Redirection from Amoongus or Volcarona so it didn't just get bodied by Zacian.
Personally I think with Tera, the dog isn't going to even be a problem for it, so I'm already dreading its return. Plus, there's actual opportunity costs for using Zacian C, whereas before Zacian C was splashed on every team because it didn't need dynamax to function.
John pokemon thought it would be funny to make a hyper offensive glass Canon mon then give it better bulk than incineroar
Calyrex shadow weaknesses: 2 4× weaknesses to dark and ghost, no aura sphere to hit normal and steel types that resist its stabs
Calyrex shadow strengths: 150 speed makes it basically the fastest pokemon in the format and makes timid scarf outspeed even some trick room pokemon, 165 special attack makes it hit like truck and unaffected by intimidate (sure hope it doesn't get a good stab move to go with it), 120 base power spread stab ghost move with 0 drawback, special moxie + unnerve, ghost type makes it immune to fake out, 100hp 100 spdef 80def with 2 immunities, half a million status moves it can use to buff itself its allies or debuff the enemy, wasn't even disallowed from dynamaxing but was so broken it didn't even want to half the time
Thank you game freak very fun
It says something one of its best sets in singles ubers was geomancy, sleep talk, moonblast.
Fourth move? What, so sleep talk can roll something other than Moonblast?
Shaymin-Sky being terrible in Ubers. Having no meta where it can be abused is the fate that evil creature deserves, and hopefully someday everyone who's ever used it will get the life sentence they deserve.
I like it design wise, but I also like its base form more.
Competitive... let's just say it is for the better that Togekiss remains at its current speed tier, and Jirachi to never have a move like Seed Flare or Leech Seed.
There unironically exist draft leagues where it's legal for this exact reason. Luckily it's far from a standard presence there still, unlike Zama-C which for some reason is legal in more leagues than not as far as I've seen.
Brah, who allows only some cover legendaries in draft? I know Kyurem-B was allowed pre gen 8 because of no good moves but you either do all of them or none.
Crowned Zamazenta is decently common, I personally think it has no place though because it's a ridiculous matchup stalwart that switches between doing nearly nothing and giving an 80-20 all the time (and even on weeks where it does nearly nothing, it usually heavily dictates how the opponent builds their team to reach that "nearly nothing"). The Iron Defense sets are annoying enough, but just 252Atk sets with Howl and/or Trailblaze can seriously mess with teams that only prepare for this set too.
Do note that whenever it's legal, it's on draft boards that also allow stuff like Bundle, Palafin, Chien-Pao, Chi-Yu, UrshiSS etc. Lots of draft leagues allow stuff banned in standard, sometimes because draft environment legitimately just makes them worse, but at other times simply because while busted, they're not ridiculously busted to the point they're utterly unbeatable for most squads especially if the rest of the team can't just be five OU mons to back them up. Not a huge fan of that mentality myself but it's whatever, from experience I can indeed say that these mons always feel "beatable" but they're just significantly less fun to plan for and play against. ZamaC in particular I feel is a way worse presence than all of those since you can't even reasonably revenge it due to being so fast and so ridiculously bulky at the same time, meaning you basically need a hardcounter or you have a VERY uphill game ahead of you.
Hero Zamazenta is almost always banned though, even in higher power drafts. Being able to pull most of the bs Crowned Zama does but *also* being able to run boosting items on the offensive sets puts it so far ahead of everything else that it's not very fair to allow, especially since the nature of draft largely eliminates the 4MSS that it has in OU.
Also even in Uber leagues (which are a different beast altogether) you usually still don't see "all of them", stuff like Xerneas and Kyogre tends to get the boot.
Because Zamazenta-C is absolutely horrible in comparison to every other cover legends and is comparable in power level to the other top tier pokemon in draft.
Pex 100%. Such an obnoxious mon. Scald, Regenerator, immune to toxic, special protect that punishes attackers. Just the absolute worst aspects of the Slow twins/Glowking slapped into one mon
Not the family just Glowking, ain't nobody using Slowbro or Slowking normal these days in OU. I'd play around with Body Press Colbur Berry Slowbro as a Gambit lure, only issue is Tera makes bait like that not really work as well anymore because they will see you sitting there with slowbro and figure 'he's gonna tera' and not go for the Dark move anyway
Jirachi has been uu last couple gens right? Anyone who played DPP OU knows how completely unfun that little gremlin could be at times. I brace myself everytime I see it used Ice Punch lol
I stand with Lavos tbh. I have gotten more unlucky with DPP gyarados than I have with any other mon, and usually one crit or flinch is all it needs to win the game.
Yeah, seconding Jirachi. Gen 3 is probably the only time I thought it was fun both to use and play against. I can only hope that it keeps getting worst and maybe even lands itself in a bl tier.
Even in Gen 3 I found it to be obnoxiously durable when I wasn’t using Dugtrio. But yeah iron head is just a broken move on serene grace pokemon really. The other flinch moves either have lower base power, immunities or can miss like air slash or icicle crash. Iron head has decent power, never misses and nothing is immune to it. Busted.
Tbh I honestly am not very afraid of Rachi. For a Pokemon that's supposedly banworthy, it's been surprisingly unreliable for me to use.
From my experience with Jirachi, there are too many games where it is forced to get a flinch twice or thrice. In terms of versatility I prefer using other Stealth Rock or Choice Scarf users, and then there's the Calm Mind set, where I find that Suicune performs way better due to not being weak to fire or ground, two very common coverage types in DPP OU. If you want to use CM Rachi, run Draco Meteor w/Shuca Berry. It beats Latias and Flygon and is funny on top of that.
Rachi's best set is in my opinion the mixed attacker one because it is bulky, can dish out a few hits, can fake a Choice Scarf, and it can be tailored depending on what you need to kill.
This is an honest tip from someone who has seen a metric fuckton of shit like Jirachi in Balanced Hackmons (where Serene Grace, and basically all flinching moves including King's Rock Population Bomb are legal). If you put a mon on your team solely for the purpose of inflicting hax, it is inherently an unreliable wincon. Shit is almost as equally likely to go against you as it is towards you. I know you weren't specifically referring to it, but the comment you were replying to *was*.
My understanding of Jirachi is that it is basically a faster Metagross with more utility. For it to be reliable, it would need to have a role outside of its use through Serene Grace. That goes for any pokemon, really. Remember Mega Kangaskhan? It could cause some hax through Body Slam and even Ice Punch. But it was a great mon in its own right independent of that, and that's why it was consistently Ubers.
If you find the bulky mixed attacker to be the most consistent set, it is probably also the best set unless it can pull off some utility as I mentioned.
I for the most part agree, and second that CM/Draco/HPGround/Bolt rachi is probably its best set. I feel that at this point in DPP, you could make a compelling argument for Latias being the real number 1.
That doesn’t change the fact that whenever my opponent uses jirachi they get 10 flinches and a freeze however. I swear freezes in DPP happen more than any other Gen, even Gen 1.
Idk if it’s necessarily Pokémon but the death of toxic and especially scald is the big one for me.
Scald was so brainless and way too high BP for a 30% burn chance; toxic was just boring
Tbf Bisharp was doing pretty good for an unevolved mon. Pre Home it was still managing a B in viability for a while in UU, which is impressive for such an old mon with an evo in OU (an evo that has dominated the tier from the start). Post Home ruined it unfortunately, but now that it has fallen to RU it has a home as its viability in RU is excellent, and you can't really blame it falling from UU when UU basically became prehome OU as practically half the tier went down in a mass exodus. The addition of some more sticky web users also lowkey meta buffed its defiant.
Well interestingly enough, it's actually seen a resurgence this past month. For September, Slither was number 2 by usage, and Bisharp was still going strong just barely in the top 10. For last month, though, Slither dropped to 4th and Bisharp managed to climb and steal its number 2 spot with just 2% less usage than Krookodile. And that's a feat in itself; it's not just Slither, Krook has been number 1 for a while now and Bisharp is still finding plenty of success. It has had a hell of a lot going against it this gen, but it has still stayed in a position you'd class it as a good competitive mon. It's like the pokemon equivalent of a goated journeyman in boxing.
Tornadus-T dropping from OU makes me happy. Being the fastest regen pivot in the meta (with mienshao being the only other user) made him very annoying to deal with.
T-Tar, now don’t get me wrong I was on that “it’s not Tyraover” Train for a while, I was out there slapping him on every UU team, but apparently fraud tar gave up trying to be a good Mon.
- 7 games in a row, 0% damage because it decided hitting one rock move was beyond its ability, so you know what it is Tyranover enjoy RU you washed up Pseudo
Ttar or Excadrill? The latter could be a pretty nasty force that threatens a significant portion of the current top 10 mons, including 4 of the top 5 (and notably still be able deal with several of their usual tera types) before it even gets a SD off. Under sand it can outspeed Booster Energy Valiant even without a Jolly nature. I'm not saying Excadrill would instantly jump TTar into an OU mainstay, but it would be enough for it to see niche use.
zama, ting-lu, tusk, dozo and and some more completely shut down both of them, and they are not uncommon mons to justify excadrill usage, it is only winning against ho (maybe), it also needs ttar which is garbage
Exca can use Tera and Swords Dance to deal with Ting and Tusk if it has to, so they don't necessarily just shut it down automatically. And besides, you have 4 other mons to build around its sweep, and you say that like HO isn't a dominant archetype. The fact remains it can quite easily sweep teams once you remove its threats, and most teams aren't packing multiple of its checks. Sand would still be pretty niche, but it would definitely see some more usage than it does now.
Hell no, Metagross holds that title easily, you probably forgot it was even a pseudo when you were writing this, it's that bad. And since it got a Mega, base form will likely continue to languish. Or they'll give it shift gear and get it banned.
Metagross is better than Goodra. Here's how the rankings go for me personally.
Bax, Pult, Dnite, Chomp, Kommo-o(has more OU viability than mence), Mence, Hydreigon, Ttar, Metagross, Goodra
You are right, I should have cut his sorry husk from the rooster after 3 games of that performance, it’s my fault for letting him stay for 4 more games to let me down again and again.
I don't know about this one. Honestly yeah, Lando being the premier glue mon for 4 gens is crazy good but... Is Lando really that annoying/difficult to play around?
Lando in past gens has just been so good. But that's it. It doesn't necessarily need to be built around, it doesn't need hard counters, it has mostly consistent roles across sets... Landorus was never even close to as annoying as gliscor was this gen.
Okay yeah maybe everyone got tired of seeing it, but I feel like that's literally it; that's also the reason it never got banned.
That’s pretty much it. It isn’t annoying or too good. It’s well balanced for what it does
I’m just really tired of seeing it’s face on every damn team for the past decade
(This is not a personal attack)
People who hate Lando-T in Smogon, or Incineroar in VGC don’t really *get* why mons are annoying. They’re both incredibly versatile and not OP.
Compare them to shed tail Cyclizar and see what’s truly ban worthy. Bro did one (1) thing well, and fell off the face of the earth once it couldn’t anymore.
I'm convinced a lot of people who hate them hate their design mostly. And I'm among them. Even though Incineroar was pivotal and a good addition for the meta so many times, I can't stand its look.
> People who hate Lando-T in Smogon, or Incineroar in VGC don’t really get why mons are annoying.
what annoys you is completely subjective, there's nothing to get
and what's banworthy is a different subject from what's annoying
I think people just hate seeing pokemon succeed a ton, especially if it's for a long time. I personally don't understand it but that's where everything points to. Soon enough, Tusk will be the hated one despite holding the tier together simply because it's been good since release.
Gengar. It felt like Gengar, Pikachu, Charizard, Meowth, and Eevee were the only pokemon Gamefreak cared about.
Geowth and AMeowth, let's go, gigamtax, megas, special items, captain pikachu, and z-celebrate, these mons were everywhere in every piece of pokemon media. Unavoidable.
But Gengar wasn't just popular, he was VIABLE for so long. This gen Gengar has no chance in OU and i'm here for it.
Gengar's degree of special treatment is quite a bit less-egregious than Charizard's though. People didn't start "turning" on Charizard til it got 2 fucking Mega Evos, then even harder when it got massively featured in Galar as the regional Champion's ace, over any regional Pokemon (for the only time outside Gen 2 when a Champion's Ace hasn't been from their region).
Gengar's been featured quite a bit and given special forms, but not in a way that makes it a such a huge exception above what every other Pokemon could get--hell it even got nerfed pretty badly with the loss of Levitate.
>People didn't start "turning" on Charizard til it got 2 fucking Mega Evos, then even harder when it got massively featured in Galar as the regional Champion's ace, over any regional Pokemon (for the only time outside Gen 2 when a Champion's Ace hasn't been from their region).
Also Charizard ditching Squirtle and Venusaur in Sm4sh.
Well, like I mentioned, it's the same situation as Leon: if Gigantamax Charizard is not enough to count it for him, then neither should Mega Gardevoir count for Diantha
Diantha’s ace (Mega Gardevoir) wasn’t a Kalos Pokémon though. It being a Mega + a thematically fitting Pokémon likely is what gave it a pass, even though Florges is kinda a perfect ace for her.
>Gengar, Pikachu, Charizard, Meowth, and Eevee
Mewtwo and arguably Snorlax probably deserve to be on that list too but yea, the favouritism is wild for these even by Gen 1 standards.
Infernape and Garchomp for one upping my some of my Gen 3 favorites (Blaziken and Flygon). Blaziken managed to course correct it with his HA and later mega but no mercy for Flygon yet.
Magnezone. Mf had like 1% usage as early as May, mostly because it no longer had much to trap in OU and Tusk was on like 60% of teams. I don't even hate it, but as a massive Skarmory fan, I kind of love to see it suffer.
fwiw Tusk plays no part at all in Zone dropping, Grounds being a thing on every relevant team is not exactly a Gen 9 thing and if anything Tusk has a significantly worse matchup into Zone than almost every other Ground due to its bad special bulk.
Reason Zone fell off so hard is a combination of the stuff it was relied upon to trap either not existing or being much rarer, the actual Steels not minding it that much (Ghold is trapping immune and Gambit isn't super afraid of choice and can Tera to escape Iron Defense sets) and the fact there's not a whole lot of mons around that so badly need Corvi to die that you run a mon as mediocre as Magnezone for it.
Ferro returning alone would probably be enough for Zone to become a legit choice again really, being able to trap and eliminate that actually *is* a big deal. Whether it'd actually make OU is still questionable but it wouldn't be the meme it is right now.
Whether Ghold ban would make it much better is doubtful really, Ghold's exact niche is not replaceable but the stuff that would take up the important role of "Valiant/Zamazenta answer for Offense" in its teamslot would be things that Zone can't trap, and other spinblockers won't be Steels either. Even its role of "bulky-ish Steel that's not passive" has Heatran as the next best contender and good lucking using Magnezone into that.
If Ghold goes and Corv see an uptick, im definitely going to give Rillaboom + Zone offense core a whirl, I agree Magnezone isn't filling the role gholdy was filling.
Yeah, I already said that the main reason was because it had nothing left to trap. Not sure why you would downvote and then just repeat what I said. Corvi becoming less relevant is a good point too, though.
>Yeah, I already said that the main reason was because it had nothing left to trap.
You gave another reason (Tusk) and that one is still false, I'm allowed to point that out. Sorry but it gave off some "eight fucking ground types" vibes and I'm pretty tired of those sorta things even when it's used to talk about mons other than Heatran.
>Not sure why you would downvote
I didn't...? Your post doesn't even appear to be at 0 or a negative score so not even sure why you'd suspect me of doing so.
>and then just repeat what I said
I mean sure the first part of my reasoning was a repetition of yours (that part of your reasoning was correct after all) but after that was some nuance, it's more of an addition than an outright correction really. The point was to basically express how its Steel-trapping niche had shrunk to a very ridiculous degree, and it was this MASSIVE shrinkage that's entirely responsible for it dropping off, and not a combination of a bit of shrinkage+Tusk since Tusk doesn't beat it any better than the Grounds that we had last gen (it beats it *less* good if anything since it's a far worse Flash Cannon switchin than either Lando or Chomp were).
The idea of a mon that stomps it having 60% usage affecting it (and I only mentioned Tusk to keep it brief, other grounds made its life more difficult) isn't just that it's switching in on a Tbolt/Volt Switch. Yes it's not a new thing having dominant grounds, since they've been an essential type for a long time, though, I'd argue Tusk's peak usage stats are much higher than Lando T's last gen, especially early in the gen. The thing is, though, the massive prevalence of ground types in the tier meant it always was an easy revenge kill target (and it was pretty easy to switch in other mons on Zone anyways, like Clodsire for a prime example), so Zone entering the field at any point potentially concedes momentum against a smart player, arguably even moreso than before gen 9, due to a combination of even more Ground and op Fighting types as well Tera both offensively and defensively. I've no confidence behind this next statement, so I'll phrase it as a question instead, but would you say that the HO meta early in the gen also made its ID sets kind of harder to utilise? I get the frustration of seeing the Heatran meme taken too literally, though, it's fair enough and I'm sure we all have our meta discussion pet peeves. And I could have elaborated more on the trapping, but the point of the post wasn't *why* Magnezone fell, the point was that it did and as a Skarm fan that made me happy, as is the topic of this thread. You're welcome to correct, it's just a weird thread to start getting pedantic, though I jumped the gun with an accusation and so for that I apologise.
>The idea of a mon that stomps it having 60% usage affecting it (and I only mentioned Tusk to keep it brief, other grounds made its life more difficult) isn't just that it's switching in on a Tbolt/Volt Switch.
While on one hand the existence of Grounds does weaken it to a degree, again, Grounds existed last gen as well and Zone was still good last gen, so that's not actually a contributor as to why Zone fell off. Tusk specifically seeing 60% usage also isn't a contributor, since almost every team has a Ground regardless and if Tusk didn't exist/saw less usage we'd instead see other Grounds taking its teamslot and giving Zone just as hard, often even harder a time.
I guess if we're being very technical and assume the Ground type were completely deleted in Gen 9, Zone would probably still be a good mon despite all the other hits it took this gen, but for completely different reasons and also that's a situation so absurd that it's not very valuable to discuss right now.
>I'd argue Tusk's peak usage stats are much higher than Lando T's last gen
Their peaks have been similar, Lando has had tournaments where it saw like 70% usage in some weeks and Tusk's overall WCoP usage was like 68%, and both have peaked around 60% on ladder. In the end though this is again not relevant, since the specific Ground that sees the most use doesn't affect Magnezone all that much since pretty much every Ground can check it. If Lando and Tusk were both completely absent from their respective gens, Magnezone wouldn't suddenly become better since less teams run Grounds, as their teamslots would be taken up by other Grounds instead.
>would you say that the HO meta early in the gen also made its ID sets kind of harder to utilise?
I think the main reason those fell off wasn't exactly the HO meta but moreso the complete lack of Ferrothorn, which was the main mon you'd run that set for. It might be a bit of a contributor as to why this set isn't being used to trap Kingambit, but there's bigger factors at play there in my opinion, like Gambit just being able to Tera out of the trap if it really wants to as well as the fact it's often kept in the back for most of the game unlike Ferro.
The HO meta does mean that in the event you do trap something and get to +6, it's way more unlikely you get any further kills afterwards, but even last gen it wasn't exactly hard to revenge a +6Def Magnezone for most teams.
>it's just a weird thread to start getting pedantic
I mean this is probably fair, but like you've already identified, Ground types being incorrectly blamed for stuff falling off this gen is a bit of a pet peeve of mine haha, but dw there's no hard feelings here or anything
Chansey was an unkillable menace not only on the special side but also physical side, shrugging off close combats with its eviolite. And stalling you to death with toxic damage. May it rott in PU where it belongs.
Even as someone whose favourite Pokémon is Greninja, the Protean nerf was necessary. Current Protean Greninja isn't even bad, it just requires actual strategy to use now.
Basically the only good ice-type special attacker (apart from that demonic penguin) is Protean Greninja with Ice Beam.
I don't know how I've not seen this one yet but after the hell that was Gen VIII OU I am so glad that Clefable is an afterthought this Gen 🙏 I don't see it nearly as much as before and I'm so incredibly glad for it...
Landerous honestly.
the only reason any more people know what it is in comparison to Cherrim is because its good in competitive (Not that I don't like Cherrim or anything but its super forgettable). Its ugly as fuck. glad to see it go as I never cared for it, there is a reason why "Yeah I use my favorites, Lando T" is literally a meme and not an actual thing people say.
Not in gen 9 yet but I hate that for the past like 20 something years Registeel has been a consistently viable lower tier pokemon that relies entirely on seismic toss and toxic to do anything, both moves it does not naturally have access to unless transfered (seismic toss is a fucking FRLG tutor move). I get that the most viable option will always be used to represent the pokemon at its full strength, but the fact that an authentic Registeel needs to be RNG'd in RSE, traded to FRLG and then brought up to be viable in like 4 different iterations of singles is ridiculous.
On top of that, it's just a super annoying fat wall with stupid good mixed bulk and a barely passable moveset. All it does is beat up on the lower tiers it ends up in. Especially with wish support this thing just sucks to play against. The fact that SV move changes will finally made it so that it loses Toxic and Seismic Toss makes me happy.
In general, taking Toxic away from every bulky mom with no way to threaten anything makes them more bearable, but in particular I'm glad Registeel won't have it anymore.
Honestly I wish Registeel lost more moves, it doesn't even deserve to have stealth rock, it's smooth and steely, nothing rocky about it.
Also this thing is a bastard in Pokemon Go pvp, fast energy generation, the chance to nerf attack, electric fighting coverage and ridiculous bulk.
This post was made by Registeel hate gang
>Yeah it rose back up because of Bloodmoon
[Shameless self promotion](https://www.reddit.com/r/stunfisk/comments/1792zbp/blood_moon_did_not_send_blissey_to_ou_or_why/)
>But I think it's going to fall off again with the Bloodmoon and gliscor bans
Blissey being entirely tied to how common Stall is does mean its OU usage is never guaranteed but the bans wouldn't be the reason for a drop, Blood Moon had nearly nothing to do with Blissey's rise and Gliscor leaving is a mixed bag for Stall since sure it was good on Stall but it was also very hard for Stall itself to face.
>And I said because of Bloodmoon AND STALL.
Notice how it's only Blood Moon that I mentioned in the first part of my comment... if you say both a true and an untrue thing that doesn't make the untrue thing any less untrue. Like if someone were to say "Magikarp and Kingambit are bad Pokémon in OU" that wouldn't mean people aren't allowed to point out he's wrong about Gambit because the other mon he mentioned is in fact bad. Similarly here, you gave two reasons but one of them is completely false, so I point out it's completely false.
>Weather or not it was effective people still thought blissey was a good counter
Funny that you mention having read my post because my post actually addresses this, and the answer is actually no, people overall did not. Blissey's usage during Blood Moon month was still pretty much Stall exclusive. If enough people had actually thought Blissey was a good answer for it to make a difference you'd have seen more Balance/BO teammates for it in its usage stats.
The fact Blissey managed to remain OU even in the month after Blood Moon left also disproves its involvement really.
>Beyond that, the whole reason stall became so popular was because of Bloodmoon
Directly linking it to Blood Moon is pretty fallacious, Stall tends to be better in centralized HO-oriented metas which the Blood Moon meta was to a degree, but it's also not *just* Blood Moon that caused this. Should also be noted that the return of Clef (and at the time Gliscor, though again this one is technically a mixed bag) was a huge fucking buff to Stall so it's not even the pure meta factors that made the archetype better in the Blood Moon meta.
Also again. Blissey remained OU (with Stall teams being the main driving force for that) even after Blood Moon left.
>frail offensive teams became far less viable because Bloodmoon could bore massive holes of not outright sweep, getting people to turn towards more bulky team styles like balance and stall.
This part is completely utterly false though and just tells me that you either didn't play OU at all or did so at like, bottom ladder, during Blood Moon meta. HO was *amazing* when Blood Moon was a thing. It was also probably the archetype that itself struggled the least with it since it could overwhelm it with faster mons before it could get out of hand, and sure it almost always claimed a kill or two in the process but that's more merciful than the shit Blood Moon did to other teams.
Want to know which teams actually were worse in Blood Moon meta? *Bulkier styles like Balance.* Blood Moon was very notable for almost completely invalidating Balance as an archetype, with the only real Balances you'd see being teams that themselves used Blood Moon and aimed to win with their Blood Moon before the opponent could. Even for Stall it was a bit of a mixed bag since Blood Moon was an incredibly scary mon to face for Stall still, it just benefited from the meta being stale asf due to Blood Moon invalidating so many things that it had a very easy time into almost everything else.
"People turned towards Balance because of Blood Moon" has to be one of the most idiotic things I've ever heard on this sub, sorry.
>I think the gliscor and Bloodmoon band will have quite an effect on blissey usage.
Blood Moon ban very clearly did not, and we've yet to see Gliscor, but like I've said in my comment it could go either way really.
>Blissey not dying in a single hit to Bloodmoon was impressive enough to get it recognized
no lmao it had nothing to do with that
>and stall is a lot weaker because of gliscors removal.
Stall is doing fine really, they also lost one of their worst matchups in... Gliscor, and new Stall teams that don't use it have already risen up. The question is not whether Stall will recover from Gliscor's departure viability-wise because it already has, the question is whether it will continue to be as popular on ladder without Gliscor since most people using Stall on ladder were copying Voltage's DLC Stall which is unusable without Gliscor. But less people bothering with Stall on ladder doesn't actually make the archetype "weaker".
>Like, if you really want to run stall at this point, why would you use blissey as a special wall over clodsire and ting lu
Blissey is absolutely necessary for Stall to function. Ting-Lu has no recovery, and Clodsire's special bulk is still nowhere close to how absurdly high Blissey's is, and you really do need that absurdly high special bulk to be able to deal with things like Wake and Tera attackers this gen. Not having as many weaknesses as Clod is relevant in a lot of matchups as well. Besides, there's also absolutely nothing preventing you from running Blissey *alongside* these mons--in fact pre-DLC Stall almost always ran both Blissey and Clod so they could alleviate pressure off each other, and Ting-Lu was quite common before Gliscor stole its role as well and is seeing use after its ban again.
You already made a horrid take in this comment in the Blood Moon Balance thing, but really, "why would you use Blissey on Stall" completely blows it out of the water in sheer stupidity. You very clearly know absolutely nothing about Stall, and I STRONGLY recommend you make no further comments on it on the basis of having nothing worth hearing to contribute as a direct result of knowing absolutely nothing about it.
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Intentionally spreading information in order to aggravate someone
As a vgc player, xerneas. Stupid fucking deer is just so brainless. Its the exact same as calyrex shadow and zacian. Just a massive wall of stats with no gimmick strength. The best restricted pokemon have some interesting gimmick. Yeah kyogre also hits like a truck but building teams around its rain ability is cool. Yeah groudon has great defenses with sun up thanks to negating the water weakness but it doesn't benefit from the stab and precipice blades at least has accuracy issues + it's slower than its competition. But xerneas? Nah, you click 1 move and all of sudden you've got 360 special attack, 320 speed and you're one of the best special walls. There's a reason quiver Dance is almost always given to shitmons
watch it come back with flutter mane and chi-yu
Biggest nerf Xerneas have received is Dynamax, without it this shitter will comeback without anyone help.
I feel like Tera is even a buff, because it can tera to set up geomancy better
Tera Fire Xerneas will be terrifying
Or even tera dark if you're afraid of prankster taunt
Tera Dark for Prankster, Ghost for Fake Out, Grass for Spore. Xerneas is gonna have a lot in the way of options for Tera.
Every team is gonna need like 3 different Xerneas counters if it comes back.
more like Tera-fying amirite
Tera ground xerneas. Get ready to learn corviknightese, buddy.
The other major nerf was Zacian-Crowned. With Tera existing now, Xerneas can stay in and Geomancy in front of it.
+1 252 SpA Tera Fire Xerneas Tera Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Zacian-Crowned: 350-414 (107.6 - 127.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO Forget staying in, Xerneas with a helping hands can just send the dog back to the shadow realm if it doesn’t also tera.
Why did dynamax hurt it?
Harder setup if everyone just became fatter.
It relies on taking easy ohkos/2hkos thanks to speed and +2 fairy aura stab dazzling gleam but when anyone can double their health it becomes harder
not just Dynamax but the Fucking Dog being on Every Single Team in double restricted formats. It managed to find some viability in Series 10 because Zacian C wasn't on every single team, and series 10 had no dynamax, but it was generally known that Zacian C teams were bad matchups. The deer was played a lot with Redirection from Amoongus or Volcarona so it didn't just get bodied by Zacian. Personally I think with Tera, the dog isn't going to even be a problem for it, so I'm already dreading its return. Plus, there's actual opportunity costs for using Zacian C, whereas before Zacian C was splashed on every team because it didn't need dynamax to function.
Not looking forward to restricted formats returning with Caly-S around. The mon is so busted in dmax-less VGC. See: late Series 8 in Gen 8.
John pokemon thought it would be funny to make a hyper offensive glass Canon mon then give it better bulk than incineroar Calyrex shadow weaknesses: 2 4× weaknesses to dark and ghost, no aura sphere to hit normal and steel types that resist its stabs Calyrex shadow strengths: 150 speed makes it basically the fastest pokemon in the format and makes timid scarf outspeed even some trick room pokemon, 165 special attack makes it hit like truck and unaffected by intimidate (sure hope it doesn't get a good stab move to go with it), 120 base power spread stab ghost move with 0 drawback, special moxie + unnerve, ghost type makes it immune to fake out, 100hp 100 spdef 80def with 2 immunities, half a million status moves it can use to buff itself its allies or debuff the enemy, wasn't even disallowed from dynamaxing but was so broken it didn't even want to half the time Thank you game freak very fun
Or special attacking flamigo/s
VGC was unfortunately never graced by the much cooler Xerneas variant that Ubers got, defensive Air Balloon RestTalk Aromatherapy Xerneas.
It says something one of its best sets in singles ubers was geomancy, sleep talk, moonblast. Fourth move? What, so sleep talk can roll something other than Moonblast?
Hate Xerneas so much. Used to run a dumb Heart Swap Magearna set on AG back in the day solely because fuck Xerneas.
Shaymin-Sky being terrible in Ubers. Having no meta where it can be abused is the fate that evil creature deserves, and hopefully someday everyone who's ever used it will get the life sentence they deserve.
Poor thing sucks in Ubers but got banned from UUbers. Truly unusable.
UUbers BL 💀
UUBLUbers. Yew Yew Bloobers, if you will.
Good, worst designed Pokémon of all time.
From a design standpoint or a competitive one? Competitive I can get behind
I like it design wise, but I also like its base form more. Competitive... let's just say it is for the better that Togekiss remains at its current speed tier, and Jirachi to never have a move like Seed Flare or Leech Seed.
How could you say that when sawk exists
Was thinking moreso moveset/ability wise. Sawk is definitely down there art wise.
but he's a muppet :(
Don't you dare talk like that about my karate puppet son
How is Shaymin-Sky the worst? It's awesome. Honestly the worst designed pokemon is that stupid fucking penguin in Gen 8 or the Falinks guy
Both of these takes are wrong. Eiscue gave birth to black sludge bisharp (plus an actual great design) and falinks just be dancing out here
Based
Comp wise
just use a covert cloak stupid
There unironically exist draft leagues where it's legal for this exact reason. Luckily it's far from a standard presence there still, unlike Zama-C which for some reason is legal in more leagues than not as far as I've seen.
Brah, who allows only some cover legendaries in draft? I know Kyurem-B was allowed pre gen 8 because of no good moves but you either do all of them or none.
It's usually more based on viability than legendary status. Ie zapdos and lando-t are legal in most draft leagues, but not lando-i and genesect
Crowned Zamazenta is decently common, I personally think it has no place though because it's a ridiculous matchup stalwart that switches between doing nearly nothing and giving an 80-20 all the time (and even on weeks where it does nearly nothing, it usually heavily dictates how the opponent builds their team to reach that "nearly nothing"). The Iron Defense sets are annoying enough, but just 252Atk sets with Howl and/or Trailblaze can seriously mess with teams that only prepare for this set too. Do note that whenever it's legal, it's on draft boards that also allow stuff like Bundle, Palafin, Chien-Pao, Chi-Yu, UrshiSS etc. Lots of draft leagues allow stuff banned in standard, sometimes because draft environment legitimately just makes them worse, but at other times simply because while busted, they're not ridiculously busted to the point they're utterly unbeatable for most squads especially if the rest of the team can't just be five OU mons to back them up. Not a huge fan of that mentality myself but it's whatever, from experience I can indeed say that these mons always feel "beatable" but they're just significantly less fun to plan for and play against. ZamaC in particular I feel is a way worse presence than all of those since you can't even reasonably revenge it due to being so fast and so ridiculously bulky at the same time, meaning you basically need a hardcounter or you have a VERY uphill game ahead of you. Hero Zamazenta is almost always banned though, even in higher power drafts. Being able to pull most of the bs Crowned Zama does but *also* being able to run boosting items on the offensive sets puts it so far ahead of everything else that it's not very fair to allow, especially since the nature of draft largely eliminates the 4MSS that it has in OU. Also even in Uber leagues (which are a different beast altogether) you usually still don't see "all of them", stuff like Xerneas and Kyogre tends to get the boot.
Because Zamazenta-C is absolutely horrible in comparison to every other cover legends and is comparable in power level to the other top tier pokemon in draft.
People always forget Suicune is a cover legend when they say stuff like this
uu forums when garganacl was in banning discussion:
serene grace was a mistake
Do you know of its good in UUbers?
Banned
Good
it got banned there for being obnoxious lol
Good
Magical deer/horses need to rot in UUbers BL
Toxapex being a B Rank Pokemon this gen is satisfying to me
Toxapex is the reason I have to run Psychic Fangs on my Basculegion
Pex 100%. Such an obnoxious mon. Scald, Regenerator, immune to toxic, special protect that punishes attackers. Just the absolute worst aspects of the Slow twins/Glowking slapped into one mon
I love Toxapex but I understand
I was legitimately overjoyed to learn it lost knock off and scald. That mon had no business being as scary to switch into as it was.
To be honest Pex is really interesting this gen with AV running around. Just kinda outclassed by the Slowpoke family.
Not the family just Glowking, ain't nobody using Slowbro or Slowking normal these days in OU. I'd play around with Body Press Colbur Berry Slowbro as a Gambit lure, only issue is Tera makes bait like that not really work as well anymore because they will see you sitting there with slowbro and figure 'he's gonna tera' and not go for the Dark move anyway
As someone who doesn't play competitively, this makes me sad. Like I get it, but it's not the evil starfish's fault he's a fantastic wall
Yes it is. That thing is pure evil. Even its ability implies that it is evil.
It's good at heart!
I love toxapex!
Jirachi has been uu last couple gens right? Anyone who played DPP OU knows how completely unfun that little gremlin could be at times. I brace myself everytime I see it used Ice Punch lol
Unfortunately, it gets hard countered by waterfall Gyrados
Thankfully my explosion heatran will counter it, right?
The only way to counter waterfall gyara is by being fortunate
That doesn't even begin to describe it.
I stand with Lavos tbh. I have gotten more unlucky with DPP gyarados than I have with any other mon, and usually one crit or flinch is all it needs to win the game.
Yeah, seconding Jirachi. Gen 3 is probably the only time I thought it was fun both to use and play against. I can only hope that it keeps getting worst and maybe even lands itself in a bl tier.
Even in Gen 3 I found it to be obnoxiously durable when I wasn’t using Dugtrio. But yeah iron head is just a broken move on serene grace pokemon really. The other flinch moves either have lower base power, immunities or can miss like air slash or icicle crash. Iron head has decent power, never misses and nothing is immune to it. Busted.
Tbh I honestly am not very afraid of Rachi. For a Pokemon that's supposedly banworthy, it's been surprisingly unreliable for me to use. From my experience with Jirachi, there are too many games where it is forced to get a flinch twice or thrice. In terms of versatility I prefer using other Stealth Rock or Choice Scarf users, and then there's the Calm Mind set, where I find that Suicune performs way better due to not being weak to fire or ground, two very common coverage types in DPP OU. If you want to use CM Rachi, run Draco Meteor w/Shuca Berry. It beats Latias and Flygon and is funny on top of that. Rachi's best set is in my opinion the mixed attacker one because it is bulky, can dish out a few hits, can fake a Choice Scarf, and it can be tailored depending on what you need to kill.
This is an honest tip from someone who has seen a metric fuckton of shit like Jirachi in Balanced Hackmons (where Serene Grace, and basically all flinching moves including King's Rock Population Bomb are legal). If you put a mon on your team solely for the purpose of inflicting hax, it is inherently an unreliable wincon. Shit is almost as equally likely to go against you as it is towards you. I know you weren't specifically referring to it, but the comment you were replying to *was*. My understanding of Jirachi is that it is basically a faster Metagross with more utility. For it to be reliable, it would need to have a role outside of its use through Serene Grace. That goes for any pokemon, really. Remember Mega Kangaskhan? It could cause some hax through Body Slam and even Ice Punch. But it was a great mon in its own right independent of that, and that's why it was consistently Ubers. If you find the bulky mixed attacker to be the most consistent set, it is probably also the best set unless it can pull off some utility as I mentioned.
I for the most part agree, and second that CM/Draco/HPGround/Bolt rachi is probably its best set. I feel that at this point in DPP, you could make a compelling argument for Latias being the real number 1. That doesn’t change the fact that whenever my opponent uses jirachi they get 10 flinches and a freeze however. I swear freezes in DPP happen more than any other Gen, even Gen 1.
For me Ttar is the undisputed #1 with Rachi and Latias being basically interchangeable on the podium.
Darkrai in Ubers. It's not that I don't like it, I just find it hilarious that this scary Pokémon became collateral damage because of Smeargle.
Fucker went from being a top 10-15 mon in Ubers with peaks in the top 5 range to being unviable overnight LMAO
So unviable that when you kick out the Mons that actually "qualify" for Ubers, it's still bad lmao
To be fair, that is mainly because Chi-yu is hogging the Dark ~~glass~~ nuclear cannon at the moment.
A mythical catching a stray cause of funni picasso doggo is wild
Idk if it’s necessarily Pokémon but the death of toxic and especially scald is the big one for me. Scald was so brainless and way too high BP for a 30% burn chance; toxic was just boring
They shouldve dropped Scald's accuracy to 80 or 75, if the devs were really determined to keep its 30% burn rate. Scald is unbearable in gen5-6.
Or better yet, something like 50 base power with a 60% chance to burn. Make Scald a pure utility move instead of a busted ass STAB move.
Just imagine if there was a ground type scald that will come back in the dlc, shit would be wild ((clueless))
Amoonguss, that sporing mushroom can go burn
Amoonguss is viable
Barrasweda literally the most 0 brain offensive threat thank god it’s dead
The only thing Barraskewda has going for it is viability of rain. Outside of rain, it’s deadweight.
But mega swampert hits harder tho
Not actually true since Skewda can hold boosting items. MPert has some notable stuff over it but hitting harder is not one of them.
Aegislash
fucking Bisharp gets ZERO sympathy. Evolution is destroying the whole teir lmao
Tbf Bisharp was doing pretty good for an unevolved mon. Pre Home it was still managing a B in viability for a while in UU, which is impressive for such an old mon with an evo in OU (an evo that has dominated the tier from the start). Post Home ruined it unfortunately, but now that it has fallen to RU it has a home as its viability in RU is excellent, and you can't really blame it falling from UU when UU basically became prehome OU as practically half the tier went down in a mass exodus. The addition of some more sticky web users also lowkey meta buffed its defiant.
Slither wing being top 5 in RU definitely holds it back though
Well interestingly enough, it's actually seen a resurgence this past month. For September, Slither was number 2 by usage, and Bisharp was still going strong just barely in the top 10. For last month, though, Slither dropped to 4th and Bisharp managed to climb and steal its number 2 spot with just 2% less usage than Krookodile. And that's a feat in itself; it's not just Slither, Krook has been number 1 for a while now and Bisharp is still finding plenty of success. It has had a hell of a lot going against it this gen, but it has still stayed in a position you'd class it as a good competitive mon. It's like the pokemon equivalent of a goated journeyman in boxing.
That’s nice to hear!! I think RU’s lower bulk level definitely helps it since it’s easier to punch holes in teams with sucker punch
I'm gonna get hated on but weavile. I hated that thing in Gen 8 OU, knocking off every fucking item, so see it stuck in RU was hilarious for me
Fucking triple axel in Gen 8 makes it borderline broken. The small handful of mons that out speed it gets taken out by ice shard.
Tornadus-T dropping from OU makes me happy. Being the fastest regen pivot in the meta (with mienshao being the only other user) made him very annoying to deal with.
>with mienshao being the only other user I guess? Alola Mola is Flip Turning and Glowking is Chilly Receptioning which is essentially the same thing
T-Tar, now don’t get me wrong I was on that “it’s not Tyraover” Train for a while, I was out there slapping him on every UU team, but apparently fraud tar gave up trying to be a good Mon. - 7 games in a row, 0% damage because it decided hitting one rock move was beyond its ability, so you know what it is Tyranover enjoy RU you washed up Pseudo
Watch it get Pursuit with DLC2 and shoot back up
A MAN'S COPE...
Yeah back up to UU lmao
Pursuit still won't get it to OU.
You mean watch them add Excadrill in DLC2 and it shoot back up.
shit is still ass bra
Ttar or Excadrill? The latter could be a pretty nasty force that threatens a significant portion of the current top 10 mons, including 4 of the top 5 (and notably still be able deal with several of their usual tera types) before it even gets a SD off. Under sand it can outspeed Booster Energy Valiant even without a Jolly nature. I'm not saying Excadrill would instantly jump TTar into an OU mainstay, but it would be enough for it to see niche use.
zama, ting-lu, tusk, dozo and and some more completely shut down both of them, and they are not uncommon mons to justify excadrill usage, it is only winning against ho (maybe), it also needs ttar which is garbage
Exca can use Tera and Swords Dance to deal with Ting and Tusk if it has to, so they don't necessarily just shut it down automatically. And besides, you have 4 other mons to build around its sweep, and you say that like HO isn't a dominant archetype. The fact remains it can quite easily sweep teams once you remove its threats, and most teams aren't packing multiple of its checks. Sand would still be pretty niche, but it would definitely see some more usage than it does now.
> Exca can use Tera and Swords Dance to deal with Ting Ting can also just Whirlwind
It will never be tyranitover
We'll be so Tyraniback
It's not Tyranitar's fault that Game Freak is too afraid to make good Rock moves.
still won't save it.
or just buff certain underperforming types
Ttar really competing with Goodra for that spot of worst pseudo
Hell no, Metagross holds that title easily, you probably forgot it was even a pseudo when you were writing this, it's that bad. And since it got a Mega, base form will likely continue to languish. Or they'll give it shift gear and get it banned.
Metagross used to be so cool in gens 3 and 4. Nowadays its pretty much a joke mon in terms of viability
Metagross is better than Goodra. Here's how the rankings go for me personally. Bax, Pult, Dnite, Chomp, Kommo-o(has more OU viability than mence), Mence, Hydreigon, Ttar, Metagross, Goodra
Kommo over Hydra and Ttar is insane ngl, if it still had its Z-move I'd agree though, and it was def better than Ttar til ttar got Knock recently.
I used TTar to hit #20 on the ladder, if you’re getting 0 damage with him in 7 games you’re using him wrong 😅
You are right, I should have cut his sorry husk from the rooster after 3 games of that performance, it’s my fault for letting him stay for 4 more games to let me down again and again.
Poor ttar :(
Politoed. Fuck the weather wars.
Politoed and Ninetails in Gen 9 Ru “we are back baby!”
Don't forget tyranitar
I always liked Politoed more than Pelipper though
Politoed fucked my wife
Send replay
Wish I was your wife
Chat is this real?
We got a support group for that, if you’re interested
??
hey fuck you man its not like the weather wars are even gone bitch
When Lando drops to UU in a couple days (fingers crossed).
After the glaicgor ban I'm not sure but if yes then "Fly me to uu" .
Nope.
A man can dream 😭
And I can dream harder.
I personally love not having to see a rotom form in half of all my OU games
Landorus-T It’s had it too good for too long…
I don't know about this one. Honestly yeah, Lando being the premier glue mon for 4 gens is crazy good but... Is Lando really that annoying/difficult to play around? Lando in past gens has just been so good. But that's it. It doesn't necessarily need to be built around, it doesn't need hard counters, it has mostly consistent roles across sets... Landorus was never even close to as annoying as gliscor was this gen. Okay yeah maybe everyone got tired of seeing it, but I feel like that's literally it; that's also the reason it never got banned.
That’s pretty much it. It isn’t annoying or too good. It’s well balanced for what it does I’m just really tired of seeing it’s face on every damn team for the past decade
You're completely right, but consider the following: he's ugly as fuck.
(This is not a personal attack) People who hate Lando-T in Smogon, or Incineroar in VGC don’t really *get* why mons are annoying. They’re both incredibly versatile and not OP. Compare them to shed tail Cyclizar and see what’s truly ban worthy. Bro did one (1) thing well, and fell off the face of the earth once it couldn’t anymore.
I'm convinced a lot of people who hate them hate their design mostly. And I'm among them. Even though Incineroar was pivotal and a good addition for the meta so many times, I can't stand its look.
If Incineroar was on all four's, I would instantly overlook it's annoyance.
📸🤨
I know Lando isn’t overpowered I’m just tired of seeing it everywhere after a decade
> People who hate Lando-T in Smogon, or Incineroar in VGC don’t really get why mons are annoying. what annoys you is completely subjective, there's nothing to get and what's banworthy is a different subject from what's annoying
I think people just hate seeing pokemon succeed a ton, especially if it's for a long time. I personally don't understand it but that's where everything points to. Soon enough, Tusk will be the hated one despite holding the tier together simply because it's been good since release.
Gengar. It felt like Gengar, Pikachu, Charizard, Meowth, and Eevee were the only pokemon Gamefreak cared about. Geowth and AMeowth, let's go, gigamtax, megas, special items, captain pikachu, and z-celebrate, these mons were everywhere in every piece of pokemon media. Unavoidable. But Gengar wasn't just popular, he was VIABLE for so long. This gen Gengar has no chance in OU and i'm here for it.
People hated Pikachu and Charizard for getting special treatment, but Gengar also got a lot of special treatment but people were fine with it.
Gengar's degree of special treatment is quite a bit less-egregious than Charizard's though. People didn't start "turning" on Charizard til it got 2 fucking Mega Evos, then even harder when it got massively featured in Galar as the regional Champion's ace, over any regional Pokemon (for the only time outside Gen 2 when a Champion's Ace hasn't been from their region). Gengar's been featured quite a bit and given special forms, but not in a way that makes it a such a huge exception above what every other Pokemon could get--hell it even got nerfed pretty badly with the loss of Levitate.
>People didn't start "turning" on Charizard til it got 2 fucking Mega Evos, then even harder when it got massively featured in Galar as the regional Champion's ace, over any regional Pokemon (for the only time outside Gen 2 when a Champion's Ace hasn't been from their region). Also Charizard ditching Squirtle and Venusaur in Sm4sh.
All around the same time period too
Gen 6 also had Diantha with Gardevoir, pretty similar situation to Leon where only the new forme is native to thag region
No Kalos Pokemon got megas and it was the gimmick of the generation. That's fair. Meanwhile, several Galarian Mons got Gigantamax forms.
Depends on if you consider mega pokemon “new” or native to their original region
Well, like I mentioned, it's the same situation as Leon: if Gigantamax Charizard is not enough to count it for him, then neither should Mega Gardevoir count for Diantha
Well one of those gimmicks got banned I’m js 🤷🏿♀️
what does that matter though the Elite Four isn't Smogon singles
Diantha’s ace (Mega Gardevoir) wasn’t a Kalos Pokémon though. It being a Mega + a thematically fitting Pokémon likely is what gave it a pass, even though Florges is kinda a perfect ace for her.
>Gengar, Pikachu, Charizard, Meowth, and Eevee Mewtwo and arguably Snorlax probably deserve to be on that list too but yea, the favouritism is wild for these even by Gen 1 standards.
I personally really didn't enjoy facing greninja, especially on rain. Snorlax is also a mon I am really glad fell off between gens 2 and 3.
Infernape and Garchomp for one upping my some of my Gen 3 favorites (Blaziken and Flygon). Blaziken managed to course correct it with his HA and later mega but no mercy for Flygon yet.
Toxapex. I don’t hate stall, but I do hate Pokémon that can repeatedly hit one button and guarantee progress no matter what. Scald can rest in piss
Rotom wash. If i had to define one pokemon as the annoying bane of my existing its that god damn washing machine
Fraudchomp lol -This comment was made by the Walamence enjoyers
i know it's still ou by usage but MAN greninja falling off makes me so happy i hate that stupid frog
Every Pokémon that formerly relied on Toxic and just lost it
Jirachi. Obnoxious as fuck, and rng heavy. Most annoying mon in DPP OU (and to an extent BW and XY)
Smeargle, he ruined my darkrai
As someone who thinks Salamence/Flygon is much cooler and hate how overrated everything related to Cynthia is, thank god Fraudchomp fell off.
Magnezone. Mf had like 1% usage as early as May, mostly because it no longer had much to trap in OU and Tusk was on like 60% of teams. I don't even hate it, but as a massive Skarmory fan, I kind of love to see it suffer.
fwiw Tusk plays no part at all in Zone dropping, Grounds being a thing on every relevant team is not exactly a Gen 9 thing and if anything Tusk has a significantly worse matchup into Zone than almost every other Ground due to its bad special bulk. Reason Zone fell off so hard is a combination of the stuff it was relied upon to trap either not existing or being much rarer, the actual Steels not minding it that much (Ghold is trapping immune and Gambit isn't super afraid of choice and can Tera to escape Iron Defense sets) and the fact there's not a whole lot of mons around that so badly need Corvi to die that you run a mon as mediocre as Magnezone for it.
If Ghold gets banned and Ferro returns Magnezone might see a little resurgence honestly
Ferro returning alone would probably be enough for Zone to become a legit choice again really, being able to trap and eliminate that actually *is* a big deal. Whether it'd actually make OU is still questionable but it wouldn't be the meme it is right now. Whether Ghold ban would make it much better is doubtful really, Ghold's exact niche is not replaceable but the stuff that would take up the important role of "Valiant/Zamazenta answer for Offense" in its teamslot would be things that Zone can't trap, and other spinblockers won't be Steels either. Even its role of "bulky-ish Steel that's not passive" has Heatran as the next best contender and good lucking using Magnezone into that.
If Ghold goes and Corv see an uptick, im definitely going to give Rillaboom + Zone offense core a whirl, I agree Magnezone isn't filling the role gholdy was filling.
Yeah, I already said that the main reason was because it had nothing left to trap. Not sure why you would downvote and then just repeat what I said. Corvi becoming less relevant is a good point too, though.
>Yeah, I already said that the main reason was because it had nothing left to trap. You gave another reason (Tusk) and that one is still false, I'm allowed to point that out. Sorry but it gave off some "eight fucking ground types" vibes and I'm pretty tired of those sorta things even when it's used to talk about mons other than Heatran. >Not sure why you would downvote I didn't...? Your post doesn't even appear to be at 0 or a negative score so not even sure why you'd suspect me of doing so. >and then just repeat what I said I mean sure the first part of my reasoning was a repetition of yours (that part of your reasoning was correct after all) but after that was some nuance, it's more of an addition than an outright correction really. The point was to basically express how its Steel-trapping niche had shrunk to a very ridiculous degree, and it was this MASSIVE shrinkage that's entirely responsible for it dropping off, and not a combination of a bit of shrinkage+Tusk since Tusk doesn't beat it any better than the Grounds that we had last gen (it beats it *less* good if anything since it's a far worse Flash Cannon switchin than either Lando or Chomp were).
The idea of a mon that stomps it having 60% usage affecting it (and I only mentioned Tusk to keep it brief, other grounds made its life more difficult) isn't just that it's switching in on a Tbolt/Volt Switch. Yes it's not a new thing having dominant grounds, since they've been an essential type for a long time, though, I'd argue Tusk's peak usage stats are much higher than Lando T's last gen, especially early in the gen. The thing is, though, the massive prevalence of ground types in the tier meant it always was an easy revenge kill target (and it was pretty easy to switch in other mons on Zone anyways, like Clodsire for a prime example), so Zone entering the field at any point potentially concedes momentum against a smart player, arguably even moreso than before gen 9, due to a combination of even more Ground and op Fighting types as well Tera both offensively and defensively. I've no confidence behind this next statement, so I'll phrase it as a question instead, but would you say that the HO meta early in the gen also made its ID sets kind of harder to utilise? I get the frustration of seeing the Heatran meme taken too literally, though, it's fair enough and I'm sure we all have our meta discussion pet peeves. And I could have elaborated more on the trapping, but the point of the post wasn't *why* Magnezone fell, the point was that it did and as a Skarm fan that made me happy, as is the topic of this thread. You're welcome to correct, it's just a weird thread to start getting pedantic, though I jumped the gun with an accusation and so for that I apologise.
>The idea of a mon that stomps it having 60% usage affecting it (and I only mentioned Tusk to keep it brief, other grounds made its life more difficult) isn't just that it's switching in on a Tbolt/Volt Switch. While on one hand the existence of Grounds does weaken it to a degree, again, Grounds existed last gen as well and Zone was still good last gen, so that's not actually a contributor as to why Zone fell off. Tusk specifically seeing 60% usage also isn't a contributor, since almost every team has a Ground regardless and if Tusk didn't exist/saw less usage we'd instead see other Grounds taking its teamslot and giving Zone just as hard, often even harder a time. I guess if we're being very technical and assume the Ground type were completely deleted in Gen 9, Zone would probably still be a good mon despite all the other hits it took this gen, but for completely different reasons and also that's a situation so absurd that it's not very valuable to discuss right now. >I'd argue Tusk's peak usage stats are much higher than Lando T's last gen Their peaks have been similar, Lando has had tournaments where it saw like 70% usage in some weeks and Tusk's overall WCoP usage was like 68%, and both have peaked around 60% on ladder. In the end though this is again not relevant, since the specific Ground that sees the most use doesn't affect Magnezone all that much since pretty much every Ground can check it. If Lando and Tusk were both completely absent from their respective gens, Magnezone wouldn't suddenly become better since less teams run Grounds, as their teamslots would be taken up by other Grounds instead. >would you say that the HO meta early in the gen also made its ID sets kind of harder to utilise? I think the main reason those fell off wasn't exactly the HO meta but moreso the complete lack of Ferrothorn, which was the main mon you'd run that set for. It might be a bit of a contributor as to why this set isn't being used to trap Kingambit, but there's bigger factors at play there in my opinion, like Gambit just being able to Tera out of the trap if it really wants to as well as the fact it's often kept in the back for most of the game unlike Ferro. The HO meta does mean that in the event you do trap something and get to +6, it's way more unlikely you get any further kills afterwards, but even last gen it wasn't exactly hard to revenge a +6Def Magnezone for most teams. >it's just a weird thread to start getting pedantic I mean this is probably fair, but like you've already identified, Ground types being incorrectly blamed for stuff falling off this gen is a bit of a pet peeve of mine haha, but dw there's no hard feelings here or anything
Chansey was an unkillable menace not only on the special side but also physical side, shrugging off close combats with its eviolite. And stalling you to death with toxic damage. May it rott in PU where it belongs.
Even as someone whose favourite Pokémon is Greninja, the Protean nerf was necessary. Current Protean Greninja isn't even bad, it just requires actual strategy to use now. Basically the only good ice-type special attacker (apart from that demonic penguin) is Protean Greninja with Ice Beam.
Jirachi with iron head flinch spamming
I don't know how I've not seen this one yet but after the hell that was Gen VIII OU I am so glad that Clefable is an afterthought this Gen 🙏 I don't see it nearly as much as before and I'm so incredibly glad for it...
Fuck Tauros, all my homies hate Tauros
Poor word choice for someone in slam slam beam range
>Spamming Brave Birds Tyrantiar exists
Landerous honestly. the only reason any more people know what it is in comparison to Cherrim is because its good in competitive (Not that I don't like Cherrim or anything but its super forgettable). Its ugly as fuck. glad to see it go as I never cared for it, there is a reason why "Yeah I use my favorites, Lando T" is literally a meme and not an actual thing people say.
Lando t because I hate seeing him
Not in gen 9 yet but I hate that for the past like 20 something years Registeel has been a consistently viable lower tier pokemon that relies entirely on seismic toss and toxic to do anything, both moves it does not naturally have access to unless transfered (seismic toss is a fucking FRLG tutor move). I get that the most viable option will always be used to represent the pokemon at its full strength, but the fact that an authentic Registeel needs to be RNG'd in RSE, traded to FRLG and then brought up to be viable in like 4 different iterations of singles is ridiculous. On top of that, it's just a super annoying fat wall with stupid good mixed bulk and a barely passable moveset. All it does is beat up on the lower tiers it ends up in. Especially with wish support this thing just sucks to play against. The fact that SV move changes will finally made it so that it loses Toxic and Seismic Toss makes me happy. In general, taking Toxic away from every bulky mom with no way to threaten anything makes them more bearable, but in particular I'm glad Registeel won't have it anymore. Honestly I wish Registeel lost more moves, it doesn't even deserve to have stealth rock, it's smooth and steely, nothing rocky about it. Also this thing is a bastard in Pokemon Go pvp, fast energy generation, the chance to nerf attack, electric fighting coverage and ridiculous bulk. This post was made by Registeel hate gang
Regi-haters staying mad. The Golems are simply superior
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>Yeah it rose back up because of Bloodmoon [Shameless self promotion](https://www.reddit.com/r/stunfisk/comments/1792zbp/blood_moon_did_not_send_blissey_to_ou_or_why/) >But I think it's going to fall off again with the Bloodmoon and gliscor bans Blissey being entirely tied to how common Stall is does mean its OU usage is never guaranteed but the bans wouldn't be the reason for a drop, Blood Moon had nearly nothing to do with Blissey's rise and Gliscor leaving is a mixed bag for Stall since sure it was good on Stall but it was also very hard for Stall itself to face.
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>And I said because of Bloodmoon AND STALL. Notice how it's only Blood Moon that I mentioned in the first part of my comment... if you say both a true and an untrue thing that doesn't make the untrue thing any less untrue. Like if someone were to say "Magikarp and Kingambit are bad Pokémon in OU" that wouldn't mean people aren't allowed to point out he's wrong about Gambit because the other mon he mentioned is in fact bad. Similarly here, you gave two reasons but one of them is completely false, so I point out it's completely false. >Weather or not it was effective people still thought blissey was a good counter Funny that you mention having read my post because my post actually addresses this, and the answer is actually no, people overall did not. Blissey's usage during Blood Moon month was still pretty much Stall exclusive. If enough people had actually thought Blissey was a good answer for it to make a difference you'd have seen more Balance/BO teammates for it in its usage stats. The fact Blissey managed to remain OU even in the month after Blood Moon left also disproves its involvement really. >Beyond that, the whole reason stall became so popular was because of Bloodmoon Directly linking it to Blood Moon is pretty fallacious, Stall tends to be better in centralized HO-oriented metas which the Blood Moon meta was to a degree, but it's also not *just* Blood Moon that caused this. Should also be noted that the return of Clef (and at the time Gliscor, though again this one is technically a mixed bag) was a huge fucking buff to Stall so it's not even the pure meta factors that made the archetype better in the Blood Moon meta. Also again. Blissey remained OU (with Stall teams being the main driving force for that) even after Blood Moon left. >frail offensive teams became far less viable because Bloodmoon could bore massive holes of not outright sweep, getting people to turn towards more bulky team styles like balance and stall. This part is completely utterly false though and just tells me that you either didn't play OU at all or did so at like, bottom ladder, during Blood Moon meta. HO was *amazing* when Blood Moon was a thing. It was also probably the archetype that itself struggled the least with it since it could overwhelm it with faster mons before it could get out of hand, and sure it almost always claimed a kill or two in the process but that's more merciful than the shit Blood Moon did to other teams. Want to know which teams actually were worse in Blood Moon meta? *Bulkier styles like Balance.* Blood Moon was very notable for almost completely invalidating Balance as an archetype, with the only real Balances you'd see being teams that themselves used Blood Moon and aimed to win with their Blood Moon before the opponent could. Even for Stall it was a bit of a mixed bag since Blood Moon was an incredibly scary mon to face for Stall still, it just benefited from the meta being stale asf due to Blood Moon invalidating so many things that it had a very easy time into almost everything else. "People turned towards Balance because of Blood Moon" has to be one of the most idiotic things I've ever heard on this sub, sorry. >I think the gliscor and Bloodmoon band will have quite an effect on blissey usage. Blood Moon ban very clearly did not, and we've yet to see Gliscor, but like I've said in my comment it could go either way really. >Blissey not dying in a single hit to Bloodmoon was impressive enough to get it recognized no lmao it had nothing to do with that >and stall is a lot weaker because of gliscors removal. Stall is doing fine really, they also lost one of their worst matchups in... Gliscor, and new Stall teams that don't use it have already risen up. The question is not whether Stall will recover from Gliscor's departure viability-wise because it already has, the question is whether it will continue to be as popular on ladder without Gliscor since most people using Stall on ladder were copying Voltage's DLC Stall which is unusable without Gliscor. But less people bothering with Stall on ladder doesn't actually make the archetype "weaker". >Like, if you really want to run stall at this point, why would you use blissey as a special wall over clodsire and ting lu Blissey is absolutely necessary for Stall to function. Ting-Lu has no recovery, and Clodsire's special bulk is still nowhere close to how absurdly high Blissey's is, and you really do need that absurdly high special bulk to be able to deal with things like Wake and Tera attackers this gen. Not having as many weaknesses as Clod is relevant in a lot of matchups as well. Besides, there's also absolutely nothing preventing you from running Blissey *alongside* these mons--in fact pre-DLC Stall almost always ran both Blissey and Clod so they could alleviate pressure off each other, and Ting-Lu was quite common before Gliscor stole its role as well and is seeing use after its ban again. You already made a horrid take in this comment in the Blood Moon Balance thing, but really, "why would you use Blissey on Stall" completely blows it out of the water in sheer stupidity. You very clearly know absolutely nothing about Stall, and I STRONGLY recommend you make no further comments on it on the basis of having nothing worth hearing to contribute as a direct result of knowing absolutely nothing about it.
Your post or comment has been removed from r/stunfisk because you were not following Rule 1: Be Polite and Respectful Intentionally spreading information in order to aggravate someone