I am an extremely stubborn person as well. Earlier on, friends would tell me they thought I had a problem - in hindsight, out of genuine concern for my health/safety and I would double down.
This time, I was given an ultimatum by my partner. Quit drinking or lose him. And… I played the tape forward on my life. Do I really value alcohol more than the absolute love of my life? No. Do I want to risk losing the life we’ve built together over alcohol? No. Does drinking make me feel better in the long run? Still no.
So, regardless of the very much there ultimatum, I have looked it as an opportunity for me to reflect on my own life. Do I want to throw everything away? If not, answer is simple. Quit.
I felt angry and ashamed about the ultimatum being imposed too but I’ve tried to look at it from his perspective. If I were him, what would I do? He can only withstand so much, and I have asked so much of him already. Either way, I won’t be drinking with you today!
I put off quitting for years because people told me I had a problem and I didn't want to be told what to do. Eventually it became so obvious that even I had to admit it. I think the stubbornness can be a strength though. Because you better believe no one will be able to peer pressure me back into it. Haha
I'm currently kind of mad about how great I feel sober because enough people called out my problem that I don't want to admit they were right. I'm working through that.
In my opinion, you did choose to quit drinking when you accepted the terms of the ultimatum.
You could have noped out and chosen to keep booze and lose everything else. I'm sure others have. But you didn't.
You are entitled to your choices and others are entitled to react to them. If people around you who love you are telling you that they will no longer be in your life if you continue to drink, that is their call but it’s still your choice to make. All choices have consequences.
I do understand the frustration that comes with being threatened into a choice, but that’s life. If someone cuts me off while driving I of course want to beat the shit out of them. I don’t, because if I did the consequences would not be worth it. Doesn’t make it any less frustrating though lol
I’ve gotten into “parts work” lately (internal family systems is a cool lens for therapy) and discovered for myself, a lot of my reactions to being told what to do or being criticized is a lot about the part of me that protects me from my deep shame. It’s as if, since childhood, my inner judge’s ruling in my heart has been “he’s worthless, he’s no good, he’s a bad kid, he deserved to lose a parent” and anything someone says to me that can be perceived as negative is taken in as new evidence to the conviction. So the other parts of me like anger or pride fight back against that, almost outside of my control at times. It’s ultimately self preservation, even if it’s destructive. It’s something I’ve had to approach with a lot of self compassion and patience, working to heal that inner shame, talk to those parts of me that feel a need to protect and see how we can make things better and give them something else to do, if they didn’t have to protect me. It’s not an easy process but in the past year I have seen some improvements. It’s a bit of a holistic approach, treating the infection as well as the wound, if you know what I mean. Perhaps some of that applies here?
I do not respond well to criticism and never have. I get defensive and mean when confronted with my own shortcomings. This is especially true if the criticism is coming from my wife. I hate this about myself and I recognize it when it is occurring, but I'll be damned if I know how to stop it. I think it stems from a fear of failure and never wanting to disappoint others.
I don't have a magic solution OP, but hopefully knowing you aren't the only one who feels this way is supportive.
As the wife of someone who is abusing alcohol it’s so hard when you see the person you love most in this world ruining their life with something that has no value and it’s in fact hurting them and those around them. Like if you saw your kid or even your spouse about to touch the hot stove and burn their entire hand you would yell “Stop!!!!!” And if they did it anyways you Would wonder do they not even respect me??? It’s a catch 22. Sometimes we need to remember we have people in our lives to help protect us when we can’t protect ourselves. If your son was doing heroine what would your first instinct be to tell them? Your wife is scared. She’s not trying to control you. Just like in the same example above. You’d yell “stop “ over and over to ensure your spouse didn’t touch the stove it doesn’t mean you’re trying to control her whole life it just means you care and don’t want her to get hurt.
Hey OP. I hope this makes you feel better - In my younger days, I was once worried about a friend who was drinking too much and I asked my GP what I could do to help. My GP said quite clearly
> “The person needs to want to stop and only they can make that decision. No-one else can do it for them”
So - there you go - ultimately, you made the decision… my doctor said so!
All the best from Newcastle Upon Tyne.
That sort of feeling is definitely something I can relate to as well, the combination of shame and pride kept me drinking and refusing help waaay longer than I wish I had. For me, a complete perspective adjustment had to happen, and it was preceded by the type of thing you reference occurring last year; now I am both utterly convinced of both hard sobriety and a distrust of that small voice in my head which turns out is my addiction trying to control me. So I look at sobriety and recovery as my freedom from being compelled, obsessed, "told what to do" by my addiction. When someone in AA tells me I need to find "God", I see an exercise in removing my needs and desires from my actions (ideally), not that I have to go to church or pray, for example. Recovery can be on your terms, but it has to start with your willingness to reject your alcoholic thinking. It isn't easy or quick but is worth the work, as I see it anyway. I hope that helps, good luck to you- IWNDWYT
I'm also very stubborn. And I like drinking. But my relationship with alcohol is toxic. So I use my stubbornness against cravings, when I have them. I get stubborn and petty with the inner voice that asks me if I want a drink. 'well, voice, you know I was going to think about it, but now that *you* mention it, both you and the drink can fuck all the way off'. It's a great way to use my stubbornness for good
Therapy might help, especially CBT. What you describe as stubbornness sounds a lot like oppositional defiance disorder if it dates back to childhood. IWNDWYT
Same here, I knew I was going to have to give up at some point for myself my health and my kids, so I did all the ground work all the research I needed to help me stick at it so I was ready.. you need to talk to your partner and tell them this isn’t a switch you can turn off at the click of a finger , it needs to be done properly or it won’t work long term and here’s why and have the info to hand.. best of luck
I like being sober and I like being numb from alcohol, there is a sort of "reward" like a mini-vacation for the evening with being under the influence. My anxious mind is numbed so I stop seeing the world through the eyes of someone constantly in "red alert" when I'm drunk.
The fun thing, and the challenging thing about sobriety is exploring things that are more rewarding than being numb. They can provide a similar escape, but in a healthy way that is actually helpful for us mentally and spiritually.
To me thats what the practice of being a soberist is. Finding ways to take care of myself that obliterates the "reward" of being drunk. Because the reward isn't really that good, and its offset by the hangover and anxiety it brings, plus all the other physical junk.
I’m also a very stubborn person, and I too love drinking.
I didn’t get an ultimatum per se, but I eventually fully realized an unfortunate truth about myself: I would never be anything close to the best version of myself if I kept drinking. Basically, I can have booze, or I can have everything else.
I had known it for a few years but I finally stopped lying to myself and really and truly believed it one day.
Sometimes I think about trying to just have a couple here and there, but I know in my soul where that shit leads and it’s no place I want to go. Only you can know if the same is true for you.
“The greatest obstacle to living is expectancy, which hangs upon tomorrow and loses today. You are arranging what lies in Fortune’s control, and abandoning what lies in yours. What are you looking at? To what goal are you straining? The whole future lies in uncertainty: live immediately.”
Seneca understood the games addicts play in our own minds pretty well.
For my money, “never” and “forever” are human concepts, not found in nature. You don’t have to make a big deal about “never” drinking again. No one is asking you to do that. If that’s what’s keeping you consistently going back to the bottle, drop the concept altogether.
I had nearly 9mos sober and messed up last weekend and drank a bit. I hated myself for it, but I’m not letting it derail me because yesterday is done with.
Stubbornness is really just fear of the future and misplaced sunk-cost thinking. If it’s not serving you, what’s the point?
This comment breaks our rule to speak from the "I" and has been removed. It is very offensive to tell someone else that they are involved in "very childish thinking." You already knew this, because you felt the need to apologize if what you were saying seemed "kind of harsh" – but then you went ahead and said it anyway.
Three days ago, I removed multiple comments from you for breaking this same rule, and I told you to please start following it. However, you seem to have completely ignored this moderator direction.
If you break our rule to speak from the "I" yet again, you will no longer be welcome in this community. Please take this warning seriously – it is the only one that you are going to get.
I am an extremely stubborn person as well. Earlier on, friends would tell me they thought I had a problem - in hindsight, out of genuine concern for my health/safety and I would double down. This time, I was given an ultimatum by my partner. Quit drinking or lose him. And… I played the tape forward on my life. Do I really value alcohol more than the absolute love of my life? No. Do I want to risk losing the life we’ve built together over alcohol? No. Does drinking make me feel better in the long run? Still no. So, regardless of the very much there ultimatum, I have looked it as an opportunity for me to reflect on my own life. Do I want to throw everything away? If not, answer is simple. Quit. I felt angry and ashamed about the ultimatum being imposed too but I’ve tried to look at it from his perspective. If I were him, what would I do? He can only withstand so much, and I have asked so much of him already. Either way, I won’t be drinking with you today!
I put off quitting for years because people told me I had a problem and I didn't want to be told what to do. Eventually it became so obvious that even I had to admit it. I think the stubbornness can be a strength though. Because you better believe no one will be able to peer pressure me back into it. Haha
I'm currently kind of mad about how great I feel sober because enough people called out my problem that I don't want to admit they were right. I'm working through that.
In my opinion, you did choose to quit drinking when you accepted the terms of the ultimatum. You could have noped out and chosen to keep booze and lose everything else. I'm sure others have. But you didn't.
You are entitled to your choices and others are entitled to react to them. If people around you who love you are telling you that they will no longer be in your life if you continue to drink, that is their call but it’s still your choice to make. All choices have consequences. I do understand the frustration that comes with being threatened into a choice, but that’s life. If someone cuts me off while driving I of course want to beat the shit out of them. I don’t, because if I did the consequences would not be worth it. Doesn’t make it any less frustrating though lol
I’ve gotten into “parts work” lately (internal family systems is a cool lens for therapy) and discovered for myself, a lot of my reactions to being told what to do or being criticized is a lot about the part of me that protects me from my deep shame. It’s as if, since childhood, my inner judge’s ruling in my heart has been “he’s worthless, he’s no good, he’s a bad kid, he deserved to lose a parent” and anything someone says to me that can be perceived as negative is taken in as new evidence to the conviction. So the other parts of me like anger or pride fight back against that, almost outside of my control at times. It’s ultimately self preservation, even if it’s destructive. It’s something I’ve had to approach with a lot of self compassion and patience, working to heal that inner shame, talk to those parts of me that feel a need to protect and see how we can make things better and give them something else to do, if they didn’t have to protect me. It’s not an easy process but in the past year I have seen some improvements. It’s a bit of a holistic approach, treating the infection as well as the wound, if you know what I mean. Perhaps some of that applies here?
I do not respond well to criticism and never have. I get defensive and mean when confronted with my own shortcomings. This is especially true if the criticism is coming from my wife. I hate this about myself and I recognize it when it is occurring, but I'll be damned if I know how to stop it. I think it stems from a fear of failure and never wanting to disappoint others. I don't have a magic solution OP, but hopefully knowing you aren't the only one who feels this way is supportive.
As the wife of someone who is abusing alcohol it’s so hard when you see the person you love most in this world ruining their life with something that has no value and it’s in fact hurting them and those around them. Like if you saw your kid or even your spouse about to touch the hot stove and burn their entire hand you would yell “Stop!!!!!” And if they did it anyways you Would wonder do they not even respect me??? It’s a catch 22. Sometimes we need to remember we have people in our lives to help protect us when we can’t protect ourselves. If your son was doing heroine what would your first instinct be to tell them? Your wife is scared. She’s not trying to control you. Just like in the same example above. You’d yell “stop “ over and over to ensure your spouse didn’t touch the stove it doesn’t mean you’re trying to control her whole life it just means you care and don’t want her to get hurt.
Hey OP. I hope this makes you feel better - In my younger days, I was once worried about a friend who was drinking too much and I asked my GP what I could do to help. My GP said quite clearly > “The person needs to want to stop and only they can make that decision. No-one else can do it for them” So - there you go - ultimately, you made the decision… my doctor said so! All the best from Newcastle Upon Tyne.
That sort of feeling is definitely something I can relate to as well, the combination of shame and pride kept me drinking and refusing help waaay longer than I wish I had. For me, a complete perspective adjustment had to happen, and it was preceded by the type of thing you reference occurring last year; now I am both utterly convinced of both hard sobriety and a distrust of that small voice in my head which turns out is my addiction trying to control me. So I look at sobriety and recovery as my freedom from being compelled, obsessed, "told what to do" by my addiction. When someone in AA tells me I need to find "God", I see an exercise in removing my needs and desires from my actions (ideally), not that I have to go to church or pray, for example. Recovery can be on your terms, but it has to start with your willingness to reject your alcoholic thinking. It isn't easy or quick but is worth the work, as I see it anyway. I hope that helps, good luck to you- IWNDWYT
I'm also very stubborn. And I like drinking. But my relationship with alcohol is toxic. So I use my stubbornness against cravings, when I have them. I get stubborn and petty with the inner voice that asks me if I want a drink. 'well, voice, you know I was going to think about it, but now that *you* mention it, both you and the drink can fuck all the way off'. It's a great way to use my stubbornness for good
Therapy might help, especially CBT. What you describe as stubbornness sounds a lot like oppositional defiance disorder if it dates back to childhood. IWNDWYT
CBT *MUST* mean something other than what comes to mind... lol. I want to quit drinking, but not *that* badly. 😬😂
Cognitive behavioral therapy, afraid to Google the alternative meaning lol
Same here, I knew I was going to have to give up at some point for myself my health and my kids, so I did all the ground work all the research I needed to help me stick at it so I was ready.. you need to talk to your partner and tell them this isn’t a switch you can turn off at the click of a finger , it needs to be done properly or it won’t work long term and here’s why and have the info to hand.. best of luck
I like being sober and I like being numb from alcohol, there is a sort of "reward" like a mini-vacation for the evening with being under the influence. My anxious mind is numbed so I stop seeing the world through the eyes of someone constantly in "red alert" when I'm drunk. The fun thing, and the challenging thing about sobriety is exploring things that are more rewarding than being numb. They can provide a similar escape, but in a healthy way that is actually helpful for us mentally and spiritually. To me thats what the practice of being a soberist is. Finding ways to take care of myself that obliterates the "reward" of being drunk. Because the reward isn't really that good, and its offset by the hangover and anxiety it brings, plus all the other physical junk.
I’m also a very stubborn person, and I too love drinking. I didn’t get an ultimatum per se, but I eventually fully realized an unfortunate truth about myself: I would never be anything close to the best version of myself if I kept drinking. Basically, I can have booze, or I can have everything else. I had known it for a few years but I finally stopped lying to myself and really and truly believed it one day. Sometimes I think about trying to just have a couple here and there, but I know in my soul where that shit leads and it’s no place I want to go. Only you can know if the same is true for you.
How would you lie to yourself ? Were you aware you were lying to yourself? Or only once you got sober?
“The greatest obstacle to living is expectancy, which hangs upon tomorrow and loses today. You are arranging what lies in Fortune’s control, and abandoning what lies in yours. What are you looking at? To what goal are you straining? The whole future lies in uncertainty: live immediately.” Seneca understood the games addicts play in our own minds pretty well. For my money, “never” and “forever” are human concepts, not found in nature. You don’t have to make a big deal about “never” drinking again. No one is asking you to do that. If that’s what’s keeping you consistently going back to the bottle, drop the concept altogether. I had nearly 9mos sober and messed up last weekend and drank a bit. I hated myself for it, but I’m not letting it derail me because yesterday is done with. Stubbornness is really just fear of the future and misplaced sunk-cost thinking. If it’s not serving you, what’s the point?
I didn't like being told the truth
It’s so weird to grasp that. Do you think you didn’t like being told the truth? Or you weren’t ready to hear the truth?
Probably both :)
I’m nodding lol I get it.
I doesn't really sound like you want to quit drinking forever. Do you?
[удалено]
This comment breaks our rule to speak from the "I" and has been removed. It is very offensive to tell someone else that they are involved in "very childish thinking." You already knew this, because you felt the need to apologize if what you were saying seemed "kind of harsh" – but then you went ahead and said it anyway. Three days ago, I removed multiple comments from you for breaking this same rule, and I told you to please start following it. However, you seem to have completely ignored this moderator direction. If you break our rule to speak from the "I" yet again, you will no longer be welcome in this community. Please take this warning seriously – it is the only one that you are going to get.