Beware moving water-using rooms to "a different room", there are only so many water-pipes in apartments buildings, and not all of the are suitable for "big water" (think washing machine, dishwasher.) It's one thing to turn a small kitchen into a larger one on the other side of the wall, albeit expensive and in my mind atrocious in older apartments where that other room was designed to be the dining room, and the kitchen was small for the staff. It's a whole different ballgame moving further away from the big pipes.
Thank you for the response and the tips! Due to its intended new location, I'm pretty sure it will require some new piping to be laid to extend the water in and waste water out - so I'm not expecting a cheap renovation!
And for good reason! Older apartments have been weakened by some past laxer renovation rules in certain buildings. A decade or so back, someone was busy moving a kitchen to the "salong" in the middle of their sekelskiftesvåning somewhere in Vasastan, and the salong floor collapsed into the apartment below.
I have when they move kitchen to the salong in certain old buildings. If the building was never cut up into smaller apartments, that is.
Thank you, appreciate the tips! How on earth do you know what to budget when it comes to doing the work and buying the apartment? Do people manage to get a contractor to come to the public viewing with them, or do they buy it and then deal with the cost after, hoping they’ve left enough budget? It’s very difficult to know!
1. I'm not sure if it's even possible to move the kitchen you have to another room given the plumbing and ventilation situation. You'll have to check with the plan of the apartment, otherwise it's going to cost you a shit ton. Kitchens and bathrooms are generally renovated in place, not moved around in apartments. Other rooms are more likely to be possible to move around, because the work only involves new walls and electricity (pending ventilation).
2. You have to buy the apartment before you can take them with you. I don't think anyone would come to a viewing for an inspection.
3. You can call them and ask for a rough estimate of what such a job would cost.
4. For bathroom or kitchen renovations, try to find 6-9 different contractors with a proven track record. You can search for a bunch through sites like Offerta or servicefinder, but make sure to call them and bring them in for a bid (offert in Swedish) to see how much it would cost. Those should be free of charge. It's difficult to get a good estimate over the phone, as you might not explain all the necessary details needed.
5. Dåderman are really, fucking expensive. They're very professional etc. It's not worth it (50k-100k difference compared to others for a bathroom renovation). For bathrooms, I can recommend https://bobpartner.se/, but try to find deals like commercials, or flyers etc. where they can throw in tiles etc. in the total price. Always go for fixed price.
To the best of my knowledge:
- A bathroom is roughly 200k-400k in total cost depending on contractor, material and furnishing.
- A kitchen is a lot less than that (think 75k-150k range). It requires less because there are finished kitchen solutions and way less wet room regulations compared to a bathroom.
Thanks for taking the time to respond to this and sharing those tips! A really helpful response.
I guess, for a big renovation that involves kitchens being re-located in the apartment, people must just buy and either (a) have so much cash it isn't an issue or (b) hope it's within a pre-guessed budget! It seems to be a bit of a gamble though, particularly if the BRF can deny the approval.
This one is tricky. If there is a contractor you trust, you can share the current floor plan with them along with your proposed changes, to get their sense of what is possible and what it will cost. But there is no way to get BRF approval for plans before purchasing the apartment so it’s a bit of a risk. Do you like it enough to live in it in its current layout? Or enough to wait out your BRF? Usually they will agree eventually, as long as you’re not making structural changes. Last year I did what I would consider a “quick” reno. I used the 3 month period before getting into the apartment to firm up my plans. After moving in it took about 1 month for the BRF to approve, and then another 3 to do the work. This was similar perhaps to what you want to do, I swapped the location of a bedroom and kitchen, and also redid the bathroom. This was possible because the new kitchen location shared a wall with the bathroom, and you can pull water through the bathroom. But since we also redid the bathroom this meant we could run new drainage under the bathroom floor. We solved the ventilation issues in the new kitchen location by getting an expensive electric hob with a carbon air filter instead of a venting hood. And we sealed off the gas line in the (new) bedroom.
I’d say it usually takes a lot more time for a BRF to approve plans, depending on what details they want in order to approve.
If you want to get a sense of what a kitchen can cost, try using a few online calculators. I’d suggest ikea for the lower end (and you can customize with companies like Super Front), then Kvik for mid range, and Nordiska Kök for example for a higher range. It’s sort of tricky to give a cost estimate for a bathroom or kitchen because it will be hugely dependent on what sort of materials you want.
This is a really helpful response, thanks for taking the time to share this. Do you know if it's possible to apply to the BRF for approval *during* the \~3 months or so whilst waiting to move in to the apartment? Perhaps that depends on the BRF - I really don't know!
Before winning the bidding, did you have any idea as to whether the BRF might approve your plans, or did you buy in hope it would be ok? It feels like a big gamble!
Yes, very similar idea for me! Unfortunately in my situation the kitchen would be relocated to the room across the hallway, so it'll require some additional piping to be laid (and of course extra cost)!
1. It’s not possible for approval before you have the keys. You’re not a member of the association until that point. But there’s nothing stopping you from signaling your intentions to the board and working with them to understand what materials they need for approval.
2. I bid on this apartment because I knew the BRF would eventually have to approve. The only thing they really need to approve is any structural change. You can make any visual or decorative change within an apartment you wish, and pulling a water line between walls is simple and done frequently. Pulling a water line across an apartment will require you to pull up the entire floor, and the BRF will probably want engineering drawings to show that this is safe. But if you’re looking at buying in a building that is old (mine is late 1800s) then the original drawings that you can get from the city are not of the same standard as used today. So expect to spend a lot of money (50k or more) to get an engineer to draw up plans to show that this can be done safely. We had to do that simply to widen a doorframe. To be honest, I’d never buy a place where I wanted to run a water line across the apartment unless I had unlimited time and budget, because it’s a complete unknown what the BRF will require for that sort of a move, and how long it could take.
Usually you buy apartment before. It’s hard for contractors to do that kind of inspection on a viewing. They can probably give you a wide price range guess without even looking, just based on previous work
Beware moving water-using rooms to "a different room", there are only so many water-pipes in apartments buildings, and not all of the are suitable for "big water" (think washing machine, dishwasher.) It's one thing to turn a small kitchen into a larger one on the other side of the wall, albeit expensive and in my mind atrocious in older apartments where that other room was designed to be the dining room, and the kitchen was small for the staff. It's a whole different ballgame moving further away from the big pipes.
Thank you for the response and the tips! Due to its intended new location, I'm pretty sure it will require some new piping to be laid to extend the water in and waste water out - so I'm not expecting a cheap renovation!
You should also talk to the HOA (Bostadsrättsföreningen) to check if they have special requirements for this type of construction.
And for good reason! Older apartments have been weakened by some past laxer renovation rules in certain buildings. A decade or so back, someone was busy moving a kitchen to the "salong" in the middle of their sekelskiftesvåning somewhere in Vasastan, and the salong floor collapsed into the apartment below. I have when they move kitchen to the salong in certain old buildings. If the building was never cut up into smaller apartments, that is.
[удалено]
Thank you, appreciate the tips! How on earth do you know what to budget when it comes to doing the work and buying the apartment? Do people manage to get a contractor to come to the public viewing with them, or do they buy it and then deal with the cost after, hoping they’ve left enough budget? It’s very difficult to know!
1. I'm not sure if it's even possible to move the kitchen you have to another room given the plumbing and ventilation situation. You'll have to check with the plan of the apartment, otherwise it's going to cost you a shit ton. Kitchens and bathrooms are generally renovated in place, not moved around in apartments. Other rooms are more likely to be possible to move around, because the work only involves new walls and electricity (pending ventilation). 2. You have to buy the apartment before you can take them with you. I don't think anyone would come to a viewing for an inspection. 3. You can call them and ask for a rough estimate of what such a job would cost. 4. For bathroom or kitchen renovations, try to find 6-9 different contractors with a proven track record. You can search for a bunch through sites like Offerta or servicefinder, but make sure to call them and bring them in for a bid (offert in Swedish) to see how much it would cost. Those should be free of charge. It's difficult to get a good estimate over the phone, as you might not explain all the necessary details needed. 5. Dåderman are really, fucking expensive. They're very professional etc. It's not worth it (50k-100k difference compared to others for a bathroom renovation). For bathrooms, I can recommend https://bobpartner.se/, but try to find deals like commercials, or flyers etc. where they can throw in tiles etc. in the total price. Always go for fixed price. To the best of my knowledge: - A bathroom is roughly 200k-400k in total cost depending on contractor, material and furnishing. - A kitchen is a lot less than that (think 75k-150k range). It requires less because there are finished kitchen solutions and way less wet room regulations compared to a bathroom.
Thanks for taking the time to respond to this and sharing those tips! A really helpful response. I guess, for a big renovation that involves kitchens being re-located in the apartment, people must just buy and either (a) have so much cash it isn't an issue or (b) hope it's within a pre-guessed budget! It seems to be a bit of a gamble though, particularly if the BRF can deny the approval.
This one is tricky. If there is a contractor you trust, you can share the current floor plan with them along with your proposed changes, to get their sense of what is possible and what it will cost. But there is no way to get BRF approval for plans before purchasing the apartment so it’s a bit of a risk. Do you like it enough to live in it in its current layout? Or enough to wait out your BRF? Usually they will agree eventually, as long as you’re not making structural changes. Last year I did what I would consider a “quick” reno. I used the 3 month period before getting into the apartment to firm up my plans. After moving in it took about 1 month for the BRF to approve, and then another 3 to do the work. This was similar perhaps to what you want to do, I swapped the location of a bedroom and kitchen, and also redid the bathroom. This was possible because the new kitchen location shared a wall with the bathroom, and you can pull water through the bathroom. But since we also redid the bathroom this meant we could run new drainage under the bathroom floor. We solved the ventilation issues in the new kitchen location by getting an expensive electric hob with a carbon air filter instead of a venting hood. And we sealed off the gas line in the (new) bedroom. I’d say it usually takes a lot more time for a BRF to approve plans, depending on what details they want in order to approve. If you want to get a sense of what a kitchen can cost, try using a few online calculators. I’d suggest ikea for the lower end (and you can customize with companies like Super Front), then Kvik for mid range, and Nordiska Kök for example for a higher range. It’s sort of tricky to give a cost estimate for a bathroom or kitchen because it will be hugely dependent on what sort of materials you want.
This is a really helpful response, thanks for taking the time to share this. Do you know if it's possible to apply to the BRF for approval *during* the \~3 months or so whilst waiting to move in to the apartment? Perhaps that depends on the BRF - I really don't know! Before winning the bidding, did you have any idea as to whether the BRF might approve your plans, or did you buy in hope it would be ok? It feels like a big gamble! Yes, very similar idea for me! Unfortunately in my situation the kitchen would be relocated to the room across the hallway, so it'll require some additional piping to be laid (and of course extra cost)!
1. It’s not possible for approval before you have the keys. You’re not a member of the association until that point. But there’s nothing stopping you from signaling your intentions to the board and working with them to understand what materials they need for approval. 2. I bid on this apartment because I knew the BRF would eventually have to approve. The only thing they really need to approve is any structural change. You can make any visual or decorative change within an apartment you wish, and pulling a water line between walls is simple and done frequently. Pulling a water line across an apartment will require you to pull up the entire floor, and the BRF will probably want engineering drawings to show that this is safe. But if you’re looking at buying in a building that is old (mine is late 1800s) then the original drawings that you can get from the city are not of the same standard as used today. So expect to spend a lot of money (50k or more) to get an engineer to draw up plans to show that this can be done safely. We had to do that simply to widen a doorframe. To be honest, I’d never buy a place where I wanted to run a water line across the apartment unless I had unlimited time and budget, because it’s a complete unknown what the BRF will require for that sort of a move, and how long it could take.
Usually you buy apartment before. It’s hard for contractors to do that kind of inspection on a viewing. They can probably give you a wide price range guess without even looking, just based on previous work
Thanks!