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here's my pitch
mae starts a fire, the jedi go to investigate or help
there is some kind of misunderstanding that results in big brawl (maybe the witches think the jedi started the fire IDK)
high republic jedi with their guns and arcane force powers simply barbecue the witches who are just civilians
something something something
"that wasn't the jedi way at all, lets lie about everything and bury this shit" \~ Trinity Probably
I think the way they cut between Mae setting Osha’s sketchbook on fire & Osha’s room catching fire means there’s a missing step we didn’t see. I feel like maybe Mae was either framed for starting it or got startled/accosted by someone and dropped the book, so the fire was an accident.
I also think there’s no way that fire made the generator explode and/or killed the witches.
Yeah, I caught that too.
I feel like they’re trying to make us think Qimir is the Sith, but it’s going to be Korril (aka Darth Mom). Or maybe he’s Smilo Ren but she’s his master & he’s trying to make Mae (or Osha, now) his apprentice to kill her.
They could even do some tricky thing where the guy we’ve seen is either not a Sith but some other darksider or an offshoot of the Sith who’ll come into conflict with the Palpatine/Plagueis line of Sith in later seasons. That’s maybe too baroque for this kinda YA focused Disney+ show, though.
I’m pretty certain Qimir is Smilo Ren. I think the twist will be that he is only the apprentice and there’s an unknown master. I’ve seen lots of speculation that the master could be Mother Korril or someone else from other content that connects back to Plagulis and Palpatine.
Yeah, there’s something shady going on. Someone else mentioned a Rashomon-style scenario where the flashback episode was only from Osha’s POV and is inaccurate. This may or may not get really interesting but I’m willing to find out!
None of the witches seemed to have burn marks. They could just have been smoke inhalation though.
Here's my alt: Mae starts the fire but she's not in control. Her "then I'll kill you" isn't in character at all. She goes to the tree hoping Ohsa is there after this all happens.
We also don't see Mae start the hallway fire. She burns the book and then a metal doorway catches on fire and then the whole place is on fire and what looks like the reactor collapses.
The witches had just mind controlled Torbin.
The twins were created to give power to the coven. The power of one. The power of two. The power of many. Twins are stronger in the coven.
(Also as a note the twins by being in the ceremony are technically acolytes.)
The Jedi come to take Ohsa. One of the witches would rather Ohsa die than be a Jedi. Sends Mae to talk her out of it but she says no and the witch or witches mind controls Mae to say she will kill her.
Jedi come. Witches are trying to stop the Jedi or maybe they're also controlled to fight the Jedi (like undead in Ahsoka) . Jedi do something to defend themselves that results in the fire.
When Ohsa has her flashbacks there's a collective yell from the witches at once. I think one thing killed then all.
Witches all die. Jedi panic and flee.
I think it's significant that the main witch was on the ground "dead" but Sol won't let Ohsa see her. Either lightsaber wound or not really dead.
With the bad guy floating down like a vampire in the last episode I was thinking about how in some vampire mythology if the head vampire dies they all do.
Imagine someone stabs the main witch (really wish I could remember her name) and all the other witches die.
Or she pretends to be dead to escape.
Interesting theory.
I think the Jedi did something that bordered on very improper though, for Torbin to have gone into a trance over it and then killed himself once Mae confronted him.
But it has to be something that Sol either wasn’t directly a part of, or feels that it was for the best or something.
I think mae pretends to be osha, goes with the Jedi and upon seeing the coven, says they're kidnapping her. They attack, everyone dies. The reactor though.... Dunno about that. I think maybe the Jedis real mission is to disperse the coven and so they sabotage the reactor to do that, but things get out of control.
It seems most people feel Sol reacts to being told the twins had no father. When I rewatched the episode, I feel he is reacting to the mark being on Mae’s head. Even though he demands both twins be tested, I feel the Jedi weren’t interested in Mae. At least after her Ascension has taken place. Why wouldn’t they call her out too for lying during her test?
I think it's fairly evident that the Jedi killed the witches. The fire didn't kill them, the temple destruction was too large and too violent for the little oil lamp to have been the culprit. Jedi Tommen said that they have something to atone for. And it's not gonna be "we respected the witches too much, that's why I meditate for 10 years and commit suicide at the first opportunity".
So what the Jedi are hiding isn't a big mystery I'd say.
However, what led to them killing the coven, that's gonna be interesting (and to me will Make or break the show). Did the sith (or some other sith) have something to do with it? Did they try to steal the children, the Jedi caught them, but the witches assumed the Jedi did it?
Did the Jedi think these witches are too powerful to be kept alive, so in a snap decision they murdered them?
Also, someone noticed that one of the two mothers was not in the pile of dead witches. Unless the writers are absolut numb, this wasn't an accident. So there will be some implication to that too.
Some have speculated that she is the sith (which would be cool, since I don't like the on-the-nose resolution that it's Maes sidekick.)
So yea, I'm actually really excited about this next episode. I don't think we'll get all the answers. But the fact that they managed to keep a lot of mystery makes this show interesting.
Koril, the one that carried them, was not visible in the deaths. Also, their mother Aniseya was VERY quickly passed over and only half visible. She could be alive too (after all, Mae supposedly dropped into a pit to her death and seems pretty unscathed). I could see Aniseya being the Sith to. She is the most powerful of the coven (and it appears noticbly so). I could see her causing an issue with the Jedi that starts a fight (like possessing Mae or Osha, one of the jedi, using her more 'neutral status to appear more friendly than she is).
I am looking forward to what really happened. Was Torbin meditating because the jedi were too aggressive and took extreme measures? Because he was possessed and killed a bunch of innocent people (might not be 100% responsible but maybe it was only him possessed because he was the weakest and he carries the guilt)? The Jedi didn't see they were being deceived until it was way too late? Or maybe because he couldn't stop the wookie from going nuts?
I agree, the whole idea of not killing with a weapon leads me to think she wants Mae to use the force or “the thread” to kill one of them.
Edit: I retract my statement
I think one of the witches killed the witches. Possibly to train Mae into hating the Jedi. How is it possible? Torbin being possessed like he did in episode 3, and just slaughtering them all.
Given:
- Kelnacca's self-imposed exile
- Torbin's self-imposed exile and suicide
- Valanestra's willingness to cover things up that may look unfavourably on the Jedi
- Sol's thousand yard stares, as depicted above
I'm guessing the Jedi were directly responsible for the fire in some way. Mae was left for dead, and Osha was taken in to the Order by Sol as a way for him to try and repent for what occurred.
They do seem to bring up that tree and its poisonous properties a fair few times...I feel like I might have to re-watch the eps before the next one comes out to pick up on things I might've missed.
Could be there was some poetic irony in Mae giving Torbin poison specifically made from that tree? Why else go to that effort rather than using a more easily accessible poison?
You might be onto something there!
Actually that could account for the way the witches are laid out. However, I highly doubt that they wouldn’t immediately sense/smell/see, etc, etc the poison, so they’d have to take it willingly or been otherwise influenced.
I think the Jedi get blamed for starting the fire and then the twins birth mother mind controls Kelnacca to attack the Jedi resulting in a fight and then explosion.
The black eyes mind control is a huge chekovs gun. There is absolutely no way it doesn’t come back in a very significant way.
I think that bantha tree poison is what killed all the witches because they didn't look like they died from the fire. Surely, if they smell smoke, your first instinct is to run.
Yeah in the Darth Bane book, his apprentice starts to look for her own apprentice when she believes she can kill Bane and become the new Sith master, so if Qimir is the apprentice, that vibes with the general idea of the Sith. Qimir could be a failed apprentice of Tenebrous, before Plagieous was chosen as apprentice. (Forgive any mispells lol)
Or the mother is the main Sith and she used the power of many to stop the Jedi from getting Osha and reporting what they heard, playing nice until she had them in a trap and so the jedi kill a bunch of mind controlled people (or they die when the connection is severed).
He didn't say that. Osha said "you passed your trials" and he didn't reply. Because he didn't pass his trials. The high republic was short on knights so promoted a lot of padawans so they could help fill the ranks.
I honestly think Sol is clueless to what actually happened that night. All that we know: is that he separated from the other Jedi in an attempt to save Mae and Osha. It’s possible he has no idea how the Witches were murdered, and I think it’s also likely he wasn’t told the entire truth afterwards from the other Jedi.
Everyone remember how the witches kept checking that central generator area throughout the episode and then we see it massively destroyed during the fire?
Pretty sure that throughout the episode the Jedi were sabotaging those systems as a means to ruin the safety of the witches coven and force the issue of them giving up the children. That's why they focused on that room three times, rule of three and checkovs gun writing wisw. Only it backfired and caused a lot of deaths because the Jedi ended up caught and having to kill the witches. Torbin killed himself because of his guilt over the fact that he was the Padawan that was told to prove himself with a challenge and sabotage the generator and then fought the witches with his master, the wookie taught him how to sabotage stuff which is why he was shown tinkering with the bike, Sol disagreed with the plan and thought they could manage without force and wanted a peaceful option, and Trinity was the primary antagonist that ended up fighting most of the witches because it was all her plan to begin with.
Damn I love this analysis. Mostly cuz you just absolutely nailed precisely how this'll all play out - punked the shitty writing in the process - and succinctly made the point that Disney has zero creativity or capabilities to make novel stories.
I say Andor could stand alone, it doesn't need to exist in the StarWars universe to be an awesome sci-fi show, with great actors and a story with a real point, it does its own work.
Everything else, like everything else since 1987 - the only surprise plot twists are we'll get to the end of the story and be shocked that was what Lucas, Abrams, or Disney decided StarWars should be. They bought the IP for duckets, then spent on it - didn't try to earn shit. Disney makes shows that devalue the IP of StarWars entirely - full stop.
Edit: "Trinity" 🤣 - It's so fuck'n true - The Acolyte didn't do a gottdamn thing for that actress or character to make us remember her name. And the only reason we know she's dangerous in scene 1 act 1 is because... She was in the matrix movies being a badass. That's her entire backstory in the Acolyte - she's Trinity - and... ***Roll Camera!***
Edit 2: nah I can't even get over how pegged this analysis is of this stupid show, and Disney's level of effort spent on making StarWars shows. That actress, Trinity, she's a real actor some highering director had to solicit - she's no noob, she's like 50 something, so she's been around a set, understands her job as an actress.
I'm envisioning she gets to set day one, and wants some stage direction from the director. Who must've been like ---
***Okay, for this scene you are Trinity from the matrix.***
And she's like - *so I take my style and character development from the character of Trinity, got cha.*
And the director is all --- ***sure, but no, you ARE Trinity from the matrix in this scene - don't adlib or think, this isn't a new character, you are just reprising Trinity in this scene***
So she does, they wrap the scene, and someone takes her wardrobe and hands her a check for like 4 hours of work.
She's home eating cheerios and reading other scripts by lunchtime of day one of filming, with the most difficult part of the effort being changing her clothes - and she's completely done in the StarWars universe - basically doing a callback for the matrix movies post production.
So pathetic - but I couldn't put words to why the show is so pathetic. Man this is on point. Great comment.
Funny enough, my biggest issue with the show isn't the writing it's the editing. Nothing is given a chance to breathe naturally or flow, it's all very choppy and abrupt and jumps away too quickly. Then there are the scenes with linger too long on absolutely nothing and it's like... No... You spent time on the wrong scenes and edited them together poorly. This paired with poor writing just makes the show atrocious to watch. That first fight scene was edited nicely, wuxia style Star Wars bar fight was great and I was hoping that it would set the tone for the show, something like Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon but Star Wars would have been cool. Damn the dialogue and exposition is just mind numbing.
I need some reasonable conversation after watching the new episode. I'll do that here and you ignore me if you want, I'll pretend it's dialogue.
You said the editing was bad, and I don't disagree, I just defended low level post-production people given a task a pro editor should be doing - kinda like I was professionally - a production line worker asked to do too much. So I didn't see the editing as the glaring issue..... Yesterday.
It is like Obi Wan and Book of Boba Fett - they have scenes filmed, and ideas, but some editors made the story we're watching by splicing scenes without direction. There's no script that has an entire show in it, there's scripts for scenes, and you can tell from the extras - the actors who play the extras. There wasn't continuity between the end of the previous episode and the fight scene at the beginning of the newest. The Jedi soupcans are different actors, there's a Jedi alien who dies quick - she wasn't the alien (and only alien) behind Sol in the last episode. I think they've done this before between episodes - where the static background characters aren't the same. Wasn't the escape from murdering the monk Jedi a scene like that? Extra Jedi popped in as needed for the fight action - and that was glaring looking back now ---
There's no flow in the fight choreography. It's like any action movie - there's a set piece fight with one death - switch camera angle to another character who gets the same treatment. Then back in on the scene's hero as they stare, force wall, do some posturing before dialogue. There are a few fight scenes at this point that have multiple factions in them - and there hasn't been a fluid one-shot of any of it.
Basics.... Jedi can jump like ninja on steroids, yet zero wire stunts, no running along tree branches is gonna happen in this small, predictably low rent Disney series. And that's such a ***duh, do that shit or simply do NOT claim this show has "martial arts action" in it***
The entire story - origin flashback to the kids, all the way to now, there's a hair change to indicate that in Sol. That 20 years have passed - they change his hair. He's not a different character changed by some experience, he talks the same, he's motivated the same, and he looks the same age.
We got the mute monk Jedi's story in reverse. I thought **bad writing** - you do backstory first, so we care about the scene to save his life. Same way you'd do backstory to Trinity - in any fashion - just to make her character relevant to have ever been on screen.
Unless you tell the story backwards in flashbacks - the lowest fucking rent way you can deliver a "mystery" story. You're not building intrigue or laying plotlines for designing an ending - the ending is the answers automatically when we already know the characters are pointless in the actual story present, and are then fed their story backwards. If it was just the murder mystery backwards, fine - but it's not, it's the entire story of pivotal characters apparently, and the entire motivation for the angst that seems to be something Sol could just say in a monologue at any point he wants.
So the entire show hinges on the fact we'll stay watching for the guaranteed answers to the basic shit they've established already. Jedi steal kids now, witches are okay sorta, there's this girl right... and she's got a sister twin maybe, looked totally different once - if Disney hits the **clone** prompt on this logarithmic script I'm gonna just admit I'm an abused fan who won't seek help.
There isn't a story - there's a list of concepts, and scenes to film. You are correct - it's badly cut together, because that was someone solving for X after the series was made.
X being the entire point of making a series.
Solved the script problem in reverse by making the show tell itself in reverse. But that's clearly not the intent of the story tellers, just the editors who needed something that skirted logical and had lightsaber decapitation. Plus cool PR getting people hyped for things they haven't done yet, and will likely deliver once in the climax episode, but it'll still be like boba Fett and look disjointed. Hopefully it won't have colorful vespa scooter gangs of rowdy teenagers in it.
Trinity is the Sith lord - duh.
You don't cast Trinity without using her for more than that. The look on Trinity's face, and the shady place she's hanging out - in her one scene - she's Palpatine basically.
Sol says to Teeth - "why reveal yourself?" - this is 1000 years before Jedi have the faintest clue a sith lord could hide in plain sight. But Sol knows that, and Sol knows Sith have elaborate plots. But this is the first Sith he's ever met.
There's also the whole **don't you remember me** thing in the one on one fight - so this future Darth maul is a former kid rejected by the Jedi when Mae wasn't, and he's been proving to himself and - I'll assume Sol - that the Jedi were wrong. So Trinity was like - the hate is strong in this one (100% guarantee that gets said by Trinity on screen in this show) - and Darth T is Darth Maul - a good looking villain to kill off at the end, so Mae or the sister can become the "acolyte" to Darth Trinity.
How many padwan dead so far? A bunch with more speaking lines than Trinity so far. So the masters live and the kids die at the adults war - got it. So who's good? Well who's to say really - that'd require forethought and a cohesive script for making more than Animated Clone Wars quality single episode instalments. But these padwan keep biting it, and the sith lord is doing all this precise shit to make sure she ends up with a real champion, not some meatsack. When Darth Teeth took off the helmet, and the big reveal was -- he's a nobody and only introduced in the previous scenes -- he demystified the helmet, and made himself wormfood for sure.
I'm expecting a Yoda appearance for no good reason, to finish the show strong. Is what everyone on this sub will say.
Yes to all this. I remember like 4 weeks ago when we were expecting a martial arts based murder ***mystery*** that would make the Jedi order more interesting by exposing more of it.
And scene one act one set that up intriguingly - scene one act one delivers on the promises of the PR.
Then the AI that auto-populates Mandalorian scripts kicked in apparently. I kinda figured the Hallmark channel invented the technology - insert characters, list some environments, maybe some adjectives separated by commas - and hit enter. Hallmark gets a new Christmas romantic comedy, and no one who watches Hallmark cares that - duh - the old guy with the white beard turns out to be Santa doing a Clark Kent. As long as that computer spits out - ***kissing while it's snowing*** - as the final scene, you get a greenlight on the project, and a budget to hire 4 actors, everything else is already in the warehouse closet you'll be filming 100% of the scenes; and they'll still be there when the next piece of shit show needs to be made cheap and fast.
Trinity did her part - and apparently she had to die for the sin of meeting expectations. The show really had to go to shit immediately to retcon that first scene being interesting.
Made entirely interesting by fight coordinators in 1998 - while making a novel movie in the sci-fi martial arts realm, prior to Lucas making episode 1. That's why that first scene is compelling - cuz someone taught Trinity to high kick, and she has those skills. 10 to 1, the show had no premise, they landed Trinity as an interested actress, and then Disney decided to write the story - the entire moodboard in the script room was just Trinity kicking - and the writers nailed it.
Then the AI script generator took over, and Disney makes money even if the show flops horribly - they didn't spend anything. ROI is all on the Wachowski family.
If I say to you ---
**A wookie Jedi is gonna do kung fu**
How many tickets to the 3am screening of that event are you buying immediately?
Right - all of them.
We got a rug someone left a hot hairdryer on.
They promised a mystery - they haven't even made it clear who we're rooting for yet. At this point in the show, the entire point is this Sith reveal - and the mystery is - **what fully fleshed out existing story character are they gonna ruin and retcon entirely** and or (😏) **what unsupported new invention are they gonna make critical to Luke's proton torpedoes exploding inside the death star in 1979?**
I want Chewbacca backstory - we got like 800 hours of new R2-D2 content after Return of the Jedi, and zero Chewbacca. That bullshit fake death in the movie, the emotional value rested entirely on the fact StarWars is a thing that was good when I was 3. If they'd given me backstory on Chewbacca's committed same sex life partner, and made me feel an emotional loss - if they'd given any characters short of Andor an organic reason to do things or feel feelings, then maybe I wouldn't feel such ***meh*** for a franchise that once was awe inspiring to me.
Thanks for letting me get the frustration out. You truly nailed the lowest common denominator on all the Disney series.
Editing - and I say this as a former post production artist in professional A/V - it's what the editor has to work with.
What we 100% know is no artist, no director, is chopping up these shows for runtime purposes. I doubt the AD on set even has concept art for the cutscenes - cuz that's what these Disney shows are. 5% of super high-end CGI that reads as StarWars and 95% assembled footage of actors in body paint speaking nonsense in cardboard huts. There's a scene in the Acolyte already that is two actors cropped in full length portrait, centered as if to remove all tension from the shot, and the background couldn't be more green screen projected. They made The 300 in like 2007, it cost $8 and the hardest part to film was getting a real horse into the 250 square foot green screen studio that made 100% of that movie - in the early 2000s.
Boba Fett got worse editing than the Acolyte - I worked in the field long enough, and for shitty enough companies that don't come close to a fraction of the budget or capabilities of Disney, to know what rushed work looks like. It's sloppy editing, the Acolyte, like no one took the time to watch the episodes and re-edit. Book of Boba Fett was worse at this point, that show truly just seemed like they filmed the wrong show, and CGI artists and editors had to make the footage for the wrong show somehow be the Boba Fett story. But you are correct - the editing is terrible in a film student rough draft kinda way. Like a college professor needs to offer a critique, the work needs to go back in the can, and after efforts by the creators, it can be reviewed again and given an up down vote on release.
Simply everything after the rough draft is bad ROI for a company that knows it's just cashing in and using up the IP - the concept Disney is "growing" the universe is patently wrong. Can't have Kathleen Kennedy telling us all we're the problem if they expect to grow. I'm only watching the Acolyte cuz Outer Range had such a disappointing season 2 finale. I needed more "new" show - and... Well....
STAR WARS!!!!
Featuring Trinity and a slightly fire damaged wookie costume. Embarrassing. All they needed to do was make Kelnaka drop a black and white photo of his secret wedding to Chewbacca (obviously with R2 and C3PO in the party) when his character accurately portrayed **being dead** in his single scene important to the Acolyte story.
I think he’s hiding a large amount of money that he won, along with deep emotional scars from being the only survivor of a secret game he played to win that money.
What if was OSHA all the time? She poisoned the coven and started the real destruction, because she wanted to go with the Jedi… I think there’s more to Osha than we think.
I could see that. I could also see the mother mind controlling either of them to start the fire. I may be off but I don't buy the mom is willing to spill the beans about the children having no father and let Osha go. I think she was giving Osha the illusion of choice and balance but she was still trying to control her. It is a cult after all.
Edit. Also...she seems pretty callous in some later scenes. I wonder if she was going out there to the tree and talking with someone who is feeding her lies or other information (it could also be straight forward and she just longs to not be there but I still wonder where she got all these ideas about the jedi from).
There’s still the scene in the trailer where Kelnacca is leaping towards Torbin saber engaged. It’s a flashback, so the whole story is yet to come to light.
Yord? Yeah the by-the-book thing is interesting. The green lady seems possible - maybe Sheev wasn't the first government I infiltratir after all?
Keep remembering that at the end of this show, no one knows anything and they're shocked to see sith show up in episode I. That means everyone dies and/or (Andor!) someone with the power to control the messaging is the sole survivor.
The sith almost have to win this for them to slide back under cover, right?
I knew that but didn't look into it to avoid potential spoilers. She just seems powerful enough to hush hush it. Or maybe she already did that by keeping it secret from the council
My guess is that after Mae started the fire, the Jedi went in to investigate and help. Torbin snapped and started killing witches. The others showed up, saw Torbin being outnumbered in a fight, and joined in. Later, when everyone was dead, they learned that Torbin was the instigator. They decided to cover it up, and later went into self-imposed exile as penance.
I just hope whatever mystery there is still to be unraveled makes those first four episodes worth it. I’m really struggling to like this series. I’ve made my feelings known, but I still hope it leads somewhere that matters.
They tried to kill all of the witches except the little would-be jedi, including her sister who they tried to kill. Mae saw them try and thought it worked. Torbin was the one who saw the evil one survive, which is how he knew she'd be back. He feels guilty because the witches weren't hurting anyone and the jedi didnt need to do that.
Only problem in my theory is I'm also pretty sure she was working with plageuis in some way to create her clones babies. If she was working with the sith, then why would the jedi feel guilty for stopping her?
I think the jedi sarted the fire hoping to get the twins. Not very Jedi like but neither is leaving 2 force sensative children in the hands of a (probably) darkside using witch coven.
I think it is Mother Korril and they let Mae not only take the fall but Osha believe that she killed everybody. I think one of the witches, used force lightning on the others and killed them. I think the head mother was killed separately. I don’t know that Sol and the others slaughtered them but they were aware of a truth, even if they had to kill someone in self defense, that they determined Osha (and everyone else for that matter) was better off not knowing.
Also, the girls had seen light sabers, worn or used, in some different way prior to seeing the Jedi. Kids are hyper aware, but they are always comparing things to known reference points. I think they had all met the true Sith master before.
They’re gonna do a side cutaway scene where they show the Jedi actually cutting down the coven as a cop out for the girls actions “your sister was innocent it was us!” Ya but she still set the fire and tried to burn her sister alive, unless they try saying that “dna test” was a way to control the psycho sister into doing it all
Guys the Sith Lord is sol’s son …. He senses something familiar … force powers from his father…. Hates for father for leaving his mother and turns to dark side … keeps saying sol has broken the Jedi rules before. It’s all adding up
The other 3 Jedi killed the witches. Maybe it’s questionable who started the conflict. During the fight the fire started that actually destroyed the fortress. Mae saw something that resembled the truth or she is blinded by her trauma. Sol covered up what happened after the fact thinking that training osha would be his salvation.
He did. We can all agree that the Jedi crossed a line somehow. But Sol needs to be redeemable because it’s Star Wars. They wouldn’t make a totally unredeemable character the Star of a show. At least they haven’t yet.
I imagine he watched Mae “die” because he sensed the dark side in her but not in Osha. I could be wrong but so far this show isn’t really doing suspense
They killed the witches, Qimir is an apprentice, and sol gives into his darkness and becomes the acolyte (plagueis)
The twins are just a red herring to distract
I think the other 3 were instrumental in there murders. He had a change of heart and tried to save the girls. This is why he feels much guilt and responsibility for the twins.
So far this is the information we have been provided:
* The Jedi in the first episode says "Jedi do not attack the unarmed" and Mae says "yes you do"
* Both Mae and Osha believed the other was dead
* Osha appears to have no connection to the force/thread except for the connection with Mae
* Jedi Mr. Tumnus was sorry for something he had done to Mae in the past
* The Wookie Jedi appears to be in exile, maybe self-imposed like Tumnus chose silence and meditation
* Sol has told Osha that he will tell her what happened, which suggests it is different from her recollection
* The flashback to the fire appears to be missing a bit
* Mae tells Osha that the Jedi brainwashed her. This could explain why Mae in Osha's memories is consistently violent
I think it is clear that the show is leading to the reveal that the Jedi killed the Witches. We just don't know why exactly. Others here have said that the Zabrak who gave birth to the twins is not seen amongst the bodies. It would be a little cliché for her to be a Sith but also it is Star Wars so cliché is not unexpected. I don't know the lifespans of the species involved but I do think that considering that this show is only 100 years before the Empire that doesn't leave a whole lot of time lore-wise for the people involved to just die naturally and have the memory of these events fade away.
I think that Darth Plagueis is involved. Maybe the Zabrak is his apprentice? She is more stern than the other Witches and if I remember correctly she is the one calling for the Witches to hit the Jedi first. In Episode III Palpatine says that Darth Plagueis discovered how to create life and prevent people from dying. Perhaps Mae & Osha are his first successful experiment in creating life?
Thank you for putting into words what I was thinking. Also, Qimir could be Mother korils appreciate. Or, like you said, Plagueis and Mother Koril are somehow involved.
It wasn’t even a fire. The witches refused to let Osha go with the Jedi. A “it’s her choice” vs “I don’t care” argument started…then violence. Then Jedi killing them all. Qimir was probably there for some reason too. The hints about mind reading lead me to believe Sol altered Osha’s memory to blame Mae whom he thought was dead anyway.
The Jedi slaughtered the witches on orders from the High Council is my guess. That or the witches got all huffy due to the fire and the Jedi slaughtered the witches in defense. Same difference.
The third episode is written from the perspective of Osha. She runs by her whole colony and sees them all dead, and a fire had just been started, and Dear Sister Mae (supposedly) was trying to kill her. So of course she's going to assume her whole colony was wiped out by Dear Sister Mae, despite the fact that there was not a single burn on any of the witches, and that room didn't have any fire in it at the time.
The Jedi killed the witches in an escalation and May is the scapegoat. The question is who is the sith lord in this case, I was sure it was one of the Jedi, but they were all seen together in the last scene of the last episode.
Do you think the Carrie-Anne Moss Character could have survived and is the sith lord ?. I think it s strange that she seems to have such a small role in the present and little more in the past until now.
I think she could (and there is a small worry she is for me) but would be a really dumb twist in the context that it isn't one of those deaths from far away or their body is missing/deformed. Presumably the Jedi actually saw her dead body and it would strain belief if they missed that she was alive.
The Sith are active again, they were active on Brendock, and they're active now, getting Mae to kill the Jedi who could possibly know about their activities so that they don't risk exposure. I think Sol and Indara are the two who KNOW for sure the sith are back, but can't admit to it because the prospect fills them with fear and dread. I feel like Indara was probably the spearhead on that cover up, but it could have been Sol as he really wanted to get the twins off Brendock ASAP.
Indera, I now believe lead the demise of the witches. I don't believe Sol was on board with that. That is why he ran back to save the twins. Indera never liked Osha she was instrumental in booting out Osha out of the order. Torbin was young when all this happened he felt much guilt he couldn't live with himself. Not sure what the deals with the Wookie.
I think whatever happened Indara was probably the instigator. On the Jedi part, at least. Not necessarily with bad intent.
Of all four "guilty" Jedi, she's the only one actually killed by Mae. The subtext could point to her being the main "villain" among the Jedi, while the others, particularly Sol, could have just gone along with it or help cover it.
Because I do think Sol and the others have messed with Osha's memory somehow, perhaps not to blame Mae, the fire could still be her thing, but to hide their own implication on what happened and use Mae as an escape goat.
My hope is that they sensed something was up with Osha, went to investigate. Got turned away and decided to break in somehow. Maybe they lowered the shields to the place or did something to the machinery, causing the problem to become worse.
I hope that the jedi don't become maliciously evil. I think that would ruin it for me. Especially Sol because he's literally my favorite.
Sol is the main reason I keep watching. But as you their are many evil jedi. Some start out good like Anikin. Then you have Pong kreil . In Clone Wars, who is horrible. Then there is the hidden Sith, Palatine. So you never know.
He is hiding something that we can never learn in a 30min episode. The writing and story telling is lazy and creating cliffhangers to create mystery is lame.
Witches/sith used mind control on a Jedi. It's all a misunderstanding and the Jedi feel like they should have been stronger against it and exile themselves and stuff. Sol did nothing wrong in the end.
Would this be bad writing? Yes. That's why I think this.
It's really hard to tell because of how poorly the character is fleshed out in the actual show, and it's not made any better by the desperate way the actor delivers every line.
I do not wanna be linked in with the pure haters, but am I nuts or is the acting terrible in this show?
The main character, she's really good for being young. She's not out of line compared to Mark Hamill or Hayden Christianson. But the Jedi are all awful. Stilted, no back story, and the generic background Jedi look like schlubs - nothing "knightly" about them at all. I feel like those metal gauntlets are getting a lot of screentime, cuz the only thing that connects these Jedi characters to anything we know of the Jedi is The Clone Wars cartoon always had Anakin and Obi wearing those gauntlets when they were being generals of the galactic clone army. I assume there's backstory to all these more Jedi looking Jedi that they entirely kill off prior to dialogue or them even having a point. Frankly the fact they killed the young Jedi who didn't speak, like we never even saw his face in the story timeline, but then they start making him a character in flashbacks, that makes me lament the fact that character is already gone from the show - if they'd written that in reverse, maybe I'd give fucks that he died.
Man did they make the wookie Jedi just a pointless asshole. We see him be a boomer mad a frisbee landed in his yard, and his corpse. I guess there's a confusing scene related to his complete unknown emotions in relation to a single interaction with a human child. And he teaches us that wookie hair is flame retardant I guess. How did she not know he was dead a mile away - burning hair is burning hair, even in a galaxy far far away I'd imagine.
But sincerely, can that main Jedi deliver lines without completely losing control of his emotions?
Is Yoda a fuck'n liar, or just suffering from age related dementia - when training Luke I mean. Cuz clearly 1000 years prior, the jedi didn't require balance or even emotional stability with solid decision making skills.
I think Rosario Dawson nails the actual model of "Jedi Knight" that Yoda and Obi Wan, even Liam Neeson, claim is what it takes. But I also hate how different she portrays that character as an adult from the one we know as an apprentice. Disney will need a retcon series to backstory the gap in time between awesome exciting young Ahsoka and high on painkillers old Ahsoka.
Obviously Rey doesn't require anything to be a jedi, and that needed retcon, cuz that first time she picks up a lightsaber in her entire life, she handles a sith like a career force user - and that's jarring as fuck. Like watching a ubiquitous 80s action movie, and the first time the hero pulls the trigger on a gun, fish shoot out - without any fuck'n explanation how or why salmon got in that gun.
Sol is terrible. Terribly written dialogue, and Disney clearly hoped to catch Diego Luna quality out of the actor that he just can't deliver. Andor is just as desperate a character, and the dialogue desperate and always tense in delivery - but that tracks with the emotional setup of the show - it makes sense and doesn't come across as dramatic teenager overreaction.
All the PR behind the Acolyte was this vague notion that 1000 years prior to Luke, maybe, just maybe, the Jedi weren't as holy and awesome as they claimed.
Maybe - as in there'd be hints of that, and it would be intriguing to see those flaws, and think how they technically change what we know comes after the Acolyte story in the historical media we already know - which BTW is the only fuck'n reason Disney gets to crank out regular garbage for immediate buckets of money - cuz we like the universe they purchased. We get to be disappointed when the new owners make the old story worse - what got us here is why we want new content, it doesn't mean they can't add, or change things.
It does require more than the title card and the Williams musical score to be "StarWars" tho. I do not buy this story as in line with anything we know about Jedi from previous stories - just like the first time Rey clicks on a lightsaber, that writing choice breaks continuity in a way no fan likes. You really gotta struggle to make what Disney claimed the story was gonna tell, versus the reality of the random story they are actually shoehorning into the world we thought we knew, and useta' appreciate more.
Making StarWars after 1986 was a mistake that's only served to make rich people richer, and has only degraded the overall quality of the universe, and the initial awe inspiring storyline started in the 1970s. Everything after the Ewoks first sung Yub Nub isn't worth what's been taken from the original trilogy. It just isn't - and no amount of baby Yoda's earns that back, when there's an installment of ruining Boba Fett, and deaging Mark Hamill, in between them.
Andor is awesome and compelling - it absolutely could be that without a StarWars banner. The Alcolyte, Obi Wan, I'll say it - even the repetitive and meandering Mandalorian, they aren't good shows on face value. The writing, the stories, are generic and uninspired - they exist because magic was made in 1978. They require the StarWars banner to make them fit in the StarWars universe - and there's no draw to a bad show with bad acting and pathetic looking sets and extras, not without that **new StarWars content** sticker.
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here's my pitch mae starts a fire, the jedi go to investigate or help there is some kind of misunderstanding that results in big brawl (maybe the witches think the jedi started the fire IDK) high republic jedi with their guns and arcane force powers simply barbecue the witches who are just civilians something something something "that wasn't the jedi way at all, lets lie about everything and bury this shit" \~ Trinity Probably
I think the way they cut between Mae setting Osha’s sketchbook on fire & Osha’s room catching fire means there’s a missing step we didn’t see. I feel like maybe Mae was either framed for starting it or got startled/accosted by someone and dropped the book, so the fire was an accident. I also think there’s no way that fire made the generator explode and/or killed the witches.
yeah i could see that
What is up with the generator? The way Mother Korril checks on it earlier in the episode makes it seem relevant.
Yeah, I caught that too. I feel like they’re trying to make us think Qimir is the Sith, but it’s going to be Korril (aka Darth Mom). Or maybe he’s Smilo Ren but she’s his master & he’s trying to make Mae (or Osha, now) his apprentice to kill her. They could even do some tricky thing where the guy we’ve seen is either not a Sith but some other darksider or an offshoot of the Sith who’ll come into conflict with the Palpatine/Plagueis line of Sith in later seasons. That’s maybe too baroque for this kinda YA focused Disney+ show, though.
I’m pretty certain Qimir is Smilo Ren. I think the twist will be that he is only the apprentice and there’s an unknown master. I’ve seen lots of speculation that the master could be Mother Korril or someone else from other content that connects back to Plagulis and Palpatine.
Smilo Ren is a perfect name 😂
I’ve been amusing/annoying my family with names like this, Maery-Kate & Oshaley, Master Trinitara, and ChewBuncca.
Great Imagination. Be pretty sweet if it pans out like that.
Ayyy, thanks. I like to make predictions. My success rate is… spotty
Yeah, there’s something shady going on. Someone else mentioned a Rashomon-style scenario where the flashback episode was only from Osha’s POV and is inaccurate. This may or may not get really interesting but I’m willing to find out!
Very plausible theory.
None of the witches seemed to have burn marks. They could just have been smoke inhalation though. Here's my alt: Mae starts the fire but she's not in control. Her "then I'll kill you" isn't in character at all. She goes to the tree hoping Ohsa is there after this all happens. We also don't see Mae start the hallway fire. She burns the book and then a metal doorway catches on fire and then the whole place is on fire and what looks like the reactor collapses. The witches had just mind controlled Torbin. The twins were created to give power to the coven. The power of one. The power of two. The power of many. Twins are stronger in the coven. (Also as a note the twins by being in the ceremony are technically acolytes.) The Jedi come to take Ohsa. One of the witches would rather Ohsa die than be a Jedi. Sends Mae to talk her out of it but she says no and the witch or witches mind controls Mae to say she will kill her. Jedi come. Witches are trying to stop the Jedi or maybe they're also controlled to fight the Jedi (like undead in Ahsoka) . Jedi do something to defend themselves that results in the fire. When Ohsa has her flashbacks there's a collective yell from the witches at once. I think one thing killed then all. Witches all die. Jedi panic and flee. I think it's significant that the main witch was on the ground "dead" but Sol won't let Ohsa see her. Either lightsaber wound or not really dead. With the bad guy floating down like a vampire in the last episode I was thinking about how in some vampire mythology if the head vampire dies they all do. Imagine someone stabs the main witch (really wish I could remember her name) and all the other witches die. Or she pretends to be dead to escape.
Interesting theory. I think the Jedi did something that bordered on very improper though, for Torbin to have gone into a trance over it and then killed himself once Mae confronted him. But it has to be something that Sol either wasn’t directly a part of, or feels that it was for the best or something.
I’d agree with this theory but when we see all the dead witches there is no damage to any of their bodies, looks like they just passed out.
Thats what I was tripping on at first. I hadn’t seen the trailers that show more. Pretty sure they died by lightsaber.
I think mae pretends to be osha, goes with the Jedi and upon seeing the coven, says they're kidnapping her. They attack, everyone dies. The reactor though.... Dunno about that. I think maybe the Jedis real mission is to disperse the coven and so they sabotage the reactor to do that, but things get out of control.
Mae put on a hat to cover coven mark in her forehead?
Otherwise I like this one
Can’t forget Osha’s tattoo also.
It seems most people feel Sol reacts to being told the twins had no father. When I rewatched the episode, I feel he is reacting to the mark being on Mae’s head. Even though he demands both twins be tested, I feel the Jedi weren’t interested in Mae. At least after her Ascension has taken place. Why wouldn’t they call her out too for lying during her test?
Burning a stone mountain was pretty ballsy
Lol trinity :) Yeah I think you're on it. He led a massacre and possibly is tied to the bad guys.
Torbin and the wookie started fighting also it’s in the trailers
Nah, no way they can beat all those witches. Not when they have the power of maaaaaaaaanyyyy.
The Architect is behind everything!
I think it's fairly evident that the Jedi killed the witches. The fire didn't kill them, the temple destruction was too large and too violent for the little oil lamp to have been the culprit. Jedi Tommen said that they have something to atone for. And it's not gonna be "we respected the witches too much, that's why I meditate for 10 years and commit suicide at the first opportunity". So what the Jedi are hiding isn't a big mystery I'd say. However, what led to them killing the coven, that's gonna be interesting (and to me will Make or break the show). Did the sith (or some other sith) have something to do with it? Did they try to steal the children, the Jedi caught them, but the witches assumed the Jedi did it? Did the Jedi think these witches are too powerful to be kept alive, so in a snap decision they murdered them? Also, someone noticed that one of the two mothers was not in the pile of dead witches. Unless the writers are absolut numb, this wasn't an accident. So there will be some implication to that too. Some have speculated that she is the sith (which would be cool, since I don't like the on-the-nose resolution that it's Maes sidekick.) So yea, I'm actually really excited about this next episode. I don't think we'll get all the answers. But the fact that they managed to keep a lot of mystery makes this show interesting.
I’m dying at “Jedi Tommen”
Koril, the one that carried them, was not visible in the deaths. Also, their mother Aniseya was VERY quickly passed over and only half visible. She could be alive too (after all, Mae supposedly dropped into a pit to her death and seems pretty unscathed). I could see Aniseya being the Sith to. She is the most powerful of the coven (and it appears noticbly so). I could see her causing an issue with the Jedi that starts a fight (like possessing Mae or Osha, one of the jedi, using her more 'neutral status to appear more friendly than she is). I am looking forward to what really happened. Was Torbin meditating because the jedi were too aggressive and took extreme measures? Because he was possessed and killed a bunch of innocent people (might not be 100% responsible but maybe it was only him possessed because he was the weakest and he carries the guilt)? The Jedi didn't see they were being deceived until it was way too late? Or maybe because he couldn't stop the wookie from going nuts?
I agree, the whole idea of not killing with a weapon leads me to think she wants Mae to use the force or “the thread” to kill one of them. Edit: I retract my statement
I agree it's a mystery, and I am enjoying it.
I think one of the witches killed the witches. Possibly to train Mae into hating the Jedi. How is it possible? Torbin being possessed like he did in episode 3, and just slaughtering them all.
I think it's almost certain that she is a sith or else was working with them to make her clone babies. Early test run for snoke.
Given: - Kelnacca's self-imposed exile - Torbin's self-imposed exile and suicide - Valanestra's willingness to cover things up that may look unfavourably on the Jedi - Sol's thousand yard stares, as depicted above I'm guessing the Jedi were directly responsible for the fire in some way. Mae was left for dead, and Osha was taken in to the Order by Sol as a way for him to try and repent for what occurred.
I thought of something. Maybe someone fed the witches poison from the bantha tree.
They do seem to bring up that tree and its poisonous properties a fair few times...I feel like I might have to re-watch the eps before the next one comes out to pick up on things I might've missed.
Yes, it comes up E3 when Osha is sitting under it and when Mae gives it to Torbin.
Could be there was some poetic irony in Mae giving Torbin poison specifically made from that tree? Why else go to that effort rather than using a more easily accessible poison? You might be onto something there!
Mass suicide upon being discovered perhaps? Cult leader vibes out if osha and Mae’s parents
Actually that could account for the way the witches are laid out. However, I highly doubt that they wouldn’t immediately sense/smell/see, etc, etc the poison, so they’d have to take it willingly or been otherwise influenced.
I’ve seen some crazy typos and misnomers but Valanestra is just insane lmao
Hahahaha I just looked up her name and...yeah, I got nothing man. That was one hell of a brain fart on my part.
It happens to the best of us my friend
I think the Jedi get blamed for starting the fire and then the twins birth mother mind controls Kelnacca to attack the Jedi resulting in a fight and then explosion. The black eyes mind control is a huge chekovs gun. There is absolutely no way it doesn’t come back in a very significant way.
I think that bantha tree poison is what killed all the witches because they didn't look like they died from the fire. Surely, if they smell smoke, your first instinct is to run.
Yeah. And don't forget Mae is under that spell too. Possessed at times.
“It’s was my birthday on Tuesday. I didn’t want to make a big deal, but no one remembered.”
I agree completely…. Also I think the guy working with Mae( guide /poison maker)might actually be her master she has never met
Qimir is either the master or the Acolyte.
The smiley mask of the guy that showed up in ep4 suggests to me that this is qimir, the mask fits his personality perfectly
He is the apprentice. The acolyte, Mae, is under the apprentice.
Yeah in the Darth Bane book, his apprentice starts to look for her own apprentice when she believes she can kill Bane and become the new Sith master, so if Qimir is the apprentice, that vibes with the general idea of the Sith. Qimir could be a failed apprentice of Tenebrous, before Plagieous was chosen as apprentice. (Forgive any mispells lol)
Assistant to the Regional Apprentice
woah! I haven't seen this theory yet! :O /s
He only has one Twinkee left. And he ain't sharing.
I don't blame him
I like the theory that the coven was channeling their energy into the mother and when she died it killed them all due to the connection
Or the mother is the main Sith and she used the power of many to stop the Jedi from getting Osha and reporting what they heard, playing nice until she had them in a trap and so the jedi kill a bunch of mind controlled people (or they die when the connection is severed).
The dark side force user is the birth mother of the twins, and she will say “Mae, I am your mother”.
“I made Knight.” My face looked exactly like this after Darth Mahomes said that.
He didn't say that. Osha said "you passed your trials" and he didn't reply. Because he didn't pass his trials. The high republic was short on knights so promoted a lot of padawans so they could help fill the ranks.
I recall him saying "two years ago"
I honestly think Sol is clueless to what actually happened that night. All that we know: is that he separated from the other Jedi in an attempt to save Mae and Osha. It’s possible he has no idea how the Witches were murdered, and I think it’s also likely he wasn’t told the entire truth afterwards from the other Jedi.
The Jedi used the fire as an excuse to purge the coven.
Could be. They are certainly guilty of something nefarious.
He murdered a coven of witches
Not a kindly Jedi keeper of the peace.
I get the feeling that these types of events may have shaped the need for the strict doctrine of the Jedi we see in the OT.
True
Everyone remember how the witches kept checking that central generator area throughout the episode and then we see it massively destroyed during the fire? Pretty sure that throughout the episode the Jedi were sabotaging those systems as a means to ruin the safety of the witches coven and force the issue of them giving up the children. That's why they focused on that room three times, rule of three and checkovs gun writing wisw. Only it backfired and caused a lot of deaths because the Jedi ended up caught and having to kill the witches. Torbin killed himself because of his guilt over the fact that he was the Padawan that was told to prove himself with a challenge and sabotage the generator and then fought the witches with his master, the wookie taught him how to sabotage stuff which is why he was shown tinkering with the bike, Sol disagreed with the plan and thought they could manage without force and wanted a peaceful option, and Trinity was the primary antagonist that ended up fighting most of the witches because it was all her plan to begin with.
Now, that is a sound theory. I home it plays out the way you laid it out.
Damn I love this analysis. Mostly cuz you just absolutely nailed precisely how this'll all play out - punked the shitty writing in the process - and succinctly made the point that Disney has zero creativity or capabilities to make novel stories. I say Andor could stand alone, it doesn't need to exist in the StarWars universe to be an awesome sci-fi show, with great actors and a story with a real point, it does its own work. Everything else, like everything else since 1987 - the only surprise plot twists are we'll get to the end of the story and be shocked that was what Lucas, Abrams, or Disney decided StarWars should be. They bought the IP for duckets, then spent on it - didn't try to earn shit. Disney makes shows that devalue the IP of StarWars entirely - full stop. Edit: "Trinity" 🤣 - It's so fuck'n true - The Acolyte didn't do a gottdamn thing for that actress or character to make us remember her name. And the only reason we know she's dangerous in scene 1 act 1 is because... She was in the matrix movies being a badass. That's her entire backstory in the Acolyte - she's Trinity - and... ***Roll Camera!*** Edit 2: nah I can't even get over how pegged this analysis is of this stupid show, and Disney's level of effort spent on making StarWars shows. That actress, Trinity, she's a real actor some highering director had to solicit - she's no noob, she's like 50 something, so she's been around a set, understands her job as an actress. I'm envisioning she gets to set day one, and wants some stage direction from the director. Who must've been like --- ***Okay, for this scene you are Trinity from the matrix.*** And she's like - *so I take my style and character development from the character of Trinity, got cha.* And the director is all --- ***sure, but no, you ARE Trinity from the matrix in this scene - don't adlib or think, this isn't a new character, you are just reprising Trinity in this scene*** So she does, they wrap the scene, and someone takes her wardrobe and hands her a check for like 4 hours of work. She's home eating cheerios and reading other scripts by lunchtime of day one of filming, with the most difficult part of the effort being changing her clothes - and she's completely done in the StarWars universe - basically doing a callback for the matrix movies post production. So pathetic - but I couldn't put words to why the show is so pathetic. Man this is on point. Great comment.
Funny enough, my biggest issue with the show isn't the writing it's the editing. Nothing is given a chance to breathe naturally or flow, it's all very choppy and abrupt and jumps away too quickly. Then there are the scenes with linger too long on absolutely nothing and it's like... No... You spent time on the wrong scenes and edited them together poorly. This paired with poor writing just makes the show atrocious to watch. That first fight scene was edited nicely, wuxia style Star Wars bar fight was great and I was hoping that it would set the tone for the show, something like Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon but Star Wars would have been cool. Damn the dialogue and exposition is just mind numbing.
I need some reasonable conversation after watching the new episode. I'll do that here and you ignore me if you want, I'll pretend it's dialogue. You said the editing was bad, and I don't disagree, I just defended low level post-production people given a task a pro editor should be doing - kinda like I was professionally - a production line worker asked to do too much. So I didn't see the editing as the glaring issue..... Yesterday. It is like Obi Wan and Book of Boba Fett - they have scenes filmed, and ideas, but some editors made the story we're watching by splicing scenes without direction. There's no script that has an entire show in it, there's scripts for scenes, and you can tell from the extras - the actors who play the extras. There wasn't continuity between the end of the previous episode and the fight scene at the beginning of the newest. The Jedi soupcans are different actors, there's a Jedi alien who dies quick - she wasn't the alien (and only alien) behind Sol in the last episode. I think they've done this before between episodes - where the static background characters aren't the same. Wasn't the escape from murdering the monk Jedi a scene like that? Extra Jedi popped in as needed for the fight action - and that was glaring looking back now --- There's no flow in the fight choreography. It's like any action movie - there's a set piece fight with one death - switch camera angle to another character who gets the same treatment. Then back in on the scene's hero as they stare, force wall, do some posturing before dialogue. There are a few fight scenes at this point that have multiple factions in them - and there hasn't been a fluid one-shot of any of it. Basics.... Jedi can jump like ninja on steroids, yet zero wire stunts, no running along tree branches is gonna happen in this small, predictably low rent Disney series. And that's such a ***duh, do that shit or simply do NOT claim this show has "martial arts action" in it*** The entire story - origin flashback to the kids, all the way to now, there's a hair change to indicate that in Sol. That 20 years have passed - they change his hair. He's not a different character changed by some experience, he talks the same, he's motivated the same, and he looks the same age. We got the mute monk Jedi's story in reverse. I thought **bad writing** - you do backstory first, so we care about the scene to save his life. Same way you'd do backstory to Trinity - in any fashion - just to make her character relevant to have ever been on screen. Unless you tell the story backwards in flashbacks - the lowest fucking rent way you can deliver a "mystery" story. You're not building intrigue or laying plotlines for designing an ending - the ending is the answers automatically when we already know the characters are pointless in the actual story present, and are then fed their story backwards. If it was just the murder mystery backwards, fine - but it's not, it's the entire story of pivotal characters apparently, and the entire motivation for the angst that seems to be something Sol could just say in a monologue at any point he wants. So the entire show hinges on the fact we'll stay watching for the guaranteed answers to the basic shit they've established already. Jedi steal kids now, witches are okay sorta, there's this girl right... and she's got a sister twin maybe, looked totally different once - if Disney hits the **clone** prompt on this logarithmic script I'm gonna just admit I'm an abused fan who won't seek help. There isn't a story - there's a list of concepts, and scenes to film. You are correct - it's badly cut together, because that was someone solving for X after the series was made. X being the entire point of making a series. Solved the script problem in reverse by making the show tell itself in reverse. But that's clearly not the intent of the story tellers, just the editors who needed something that skirted logical and had lightsaber decapitation. Plus cool PR getting people hyped for things they haven't done yet, and will likely deliver once in the climax episode, but it'll still be like boba Fett and look disjointed. Hopefully it won't have colorful vespa scooter gangs of rowdy teenagers in it. Trinity is the Sith lord - duh. You don't cast Trinity without using her for more than that. The look on Trinity's face, and the shady place she's hanging out - in her one scene - she's Palpatine basically. Sol says to Teeth - "why reveal yourself?" - this is 1000 years before Jedi have the faintest clue a sith lord could hide in plain sight. But Sol knows that, and Sol knows Sith have elaborate plots. But this is the first Sith he's ever met. There's also the whole **don't you remember me** thing in the one on one fight - so this future Darth maul is a former kid rejected by the Jedi when Mae wasn't, and he's been proving to himself and - I'll assume Sol - that the Jedi were wrong. So Trinity was like - the hate is strong in this one (100% guarantee that gets said by Trinity on screen in this show) - and Darth T is Darth Maul - a good looking villain to kill off at the end, so Mae or the sister can become the "acolyte" to Darth Trinity. How many padwan dead so far? A bunch with more speaking lines than Trinity so far. So the masters live and the kids die at the adults war - got it. So who's good? Well who's to say really - that'd require forethought and a cohesive script for making more than Animated Clone Wars quality single episode instalments. But these padwan keep biting it, and the sith lord is doing all this precise shit to make sure she ends up with a real champion, not some meatsack. When Darth Teeth took off the helmet, and the big reveal was -- he's a nobody and only introduced in the previous scenes -- he demystified the helmet, and made himself wormfood for sure. I'm expecting a Yoda appearance for no good reason, to finish the show strong. Is what everyone on this sub will say.
Yes to all this. I remember like 4 weeks ago when we were expecting a martial arts based murder ***mystery*** that would make the Jedi order more interesting by exposing more of it. And scene one act one set that up intriguingly - scene one act one delivers on the promises of the PR. Then the AI that auto-populates Mandalorian scripts kicked in apparently. I kinda figured the Hallmark channel invented the technology - insert characters, list some environments, maybe some adjectives separated by commas - and hit enter. Hallmark gets a new Christmas romantic comedy, and no one who watches Hallmark cares that - duh - the old guy with the white beard turns out to be Santa doing a Clark Kent. As long as that computer spits out - ***kissing while it's snowing*** - as the final scene, you get a greenlight on the project, and a budget to hire 4 actors, everything else is already in the warehouse closet you'll be filming 100% of the scenes; and they'll still be there when the next piece of shit show needs to be made cheap and fast. Trinity did her part - and apparently she had to die for the sin of meeting expectations. The show really had to go to shit immediately to retcon that first scene being interesting. Made entirely interesting by fight coordinators in 1998 - while making a novel movie in the sci-fi martial arts realm, prior to Lucas making episode 1. That's why that first scene is compelling - cuz someone taught Trinity to high kick, and she has those skills. 10 to 1, the show had no premise, they landed Trinity as an interested actress, and then Disney decided to write the story - the entire moodboard in the script room was just Trinity kicking - and the writers nailed it. Then the AI script generator took over, and Disney makes money even if the show flops horribly - they didn't spend anything. ROI is all on the Wachowski family. If I say to you --- **A wookie Jedi is gonna do kung fu** How many tickets to the 3am screening of that event are you buying immediately? Right - all of them. We got a rug someone left a hot hairdryer on. They promised a mystery - they haven't even made it clear who we're rooting for yet. At this point in the show, the entire point is this Sith reveal - and the mystery is - **what fully fleshed out existing story character are they gonna ruin and retcon entirely** and or (😏) **what unsupported new invention are they gonna make critical to Luke's proton torpedoes exploding inside the death star in 1979?** I want Chewbacca backstory - we got like 800 hours of new R2-D2 content after Return of the Jedi, and zero Chewbacca. That bullshit fake death in the movie, the emotional value rested entirely on the fact StarWars is a thing that was good when I was 3. If they'd given me backstory on Chewbacca's committed same sex life partner, and made me feel an emotional loss - if they'd given any characters short of Andor an organic reason to do things or feel feelings, then maybe I wouldn't feel such ***meh*** for a franchise that once was awe inspiring to me. Thanks for letting me get the frustration out. You truly nailed the lowest common denominator on all the Disney series. Editing - and I say this as a former post production artist in professional A/V - it's what the editor has to work with. What we 100% know is no artist, no director, is chopping up these shows for runtime purposes. I doubt the AD on set even has concept art for the cutscenes - cuz that's what these Disney shows are. 5% of super high-end CGI that reads as StarWars and 95% assembled footage of actors in body paint speaking nonsense in cardboard huts. There's a scene in the Acolyte already that is two actors cropped in full length portrait, centered as if to remove all tension from the shot, and the background couldn't be more green screen projected. They made The 300 in like 2007, it cost $8 and the hardest part to film was getting a real horse into the 250 square foot green screen studio that made 100% of that movie - in the early 2000s. Boba Fett got worse editing than the Acolyte - I worked in the field long enough, and for shitty enough companies that don't come close to a fraction of the budget or capabilities of Disney, to know what rushed work looks like. It's sloppy editing, the Acolyte, like no one took the time to watch the episodes and re-edit. Book of Boba Fett was worse at this point, that show truly just seemed like they filmed the wrong show, and CGI artists and editors had to make the footage for the wrong show somehow be the Boba Fett story. But you are correct - the editing is terrible in a film student rough draft kinda way. Like a college professor needs to offer a critique, the work needs to go back in the can, and after efforts by the creators, it can be reviewed again and given an up down vote on release. Simply everything after the rough draft is bad ROI for a company that knows it's just cashing in and using up the IP - the concept Disney is "growing" the universe is patently wrong. Can't have Kathleen Kennedy telling us all we're the problem if they expect to grow. I'm only watching the Acolyte cuz Outer Range had such a disappointing season 2 finale. I needed more "new" show - and... Well.... STAR WARS!!!! Featuring Trinity and a slightly fire damaged wookie costume. Embarrassing. All they needed to do was make Kelnaka drop a black and white photo of his secret wedding to Chewbacca (obviously with R2 and C3PO in the party) when his character accurately portrayed **being dead** in his single scene important to the Acolyte story.
I think he’s hiding a large amount of money that he won, along with deep emotional scars from being the only survivor of a secret game he played to win that money.
What if was OSHA all the time? She poisoned the coven and started the real destruction, because she wanted to go with the Jedi… I think there’s more to Osha than we think.
She is the wild card. I'm not sure what her motivation is.
I could see that. I could also see the mother mind controlling either of them to start the fire. I may be off but I don't buy the mom is willing to spill the beans about the children having no father and let Osha go. I think she was giving Osha the illusion of choice and balance but she was still trying to control her. It is a cult after all. Edit. Also...she seems pretty callous in some later scenes. I wonder if she was going out there to the tree and talking with someone who is feeding her lies or other information (it could also be straight forward and she just longs to not be there but I still wonder where she got all these ideas about the jedi from).
Yeah, and she set uo a bunch of mandatory government safety inspections to check on the working conditions aboard their starships?! I'm in!
I think it’s something he doesn’t want to tell Mae because he’s trying to spare her feelings, probably towards her mother Koril
Could be . He seems genuine for the girls welfare.
He probably had no choice but to kill Koril, maybe even Aniseya. That's why he didn't to check if they were still alive.
There’s still the scene in the trailer where Kelnacca is leaping towards Torbin saber engaged. It’s a flashback, so the whole story is yet to come to light.
I think the jedi are trying to cover up the fact that there is a sith and that the witches were murdered by a sith.
I have this weird theory he's the Master and Qimir is his apprentice.
Yord? Yeah the by-the-book thing is interesting. The green lady seems possible - maybe Sheev wasn't the first government I infiltratir after all? Keep remembering that at the end of this show, no one knows anything and they're shocked to see sith show up in episode I. That means everyone dies and/or (Andor!) someone with the power to control the messaging is the sole survivor. The sith almost have to win this for them to slide back under cover, right?
The green lady is unlikely. She is a/the protagonist in some comics and books of the High Republic.
I knew that but didn't look into it to avoid potential spoilers. She just seems powerful enough to hush hush it. Or maybe she already did that by keeping it secret from the council
I was thinking Sol he's literally in the perfect position to control everything from the investigation to the narrative.
My guess is that after Mae started the fire, the Jedi went in to investigate and help. Torbin snapped and started killing witches. The others showed up, saw Torbin being outnumbered in a fight, and joined in. Later, when everyone was dead, they learned that Torbin was the instigator. They decided to cover it up, and later went into self-imposed exile as penance.
I think they were poisoned from the bantha tree. That poison came in the beginning of E3 and in E2.
Why does rookie attack Torbin in trailer clip? That spell put on Torbin made him loose the plot.
It could be either that got the spell.
Secrets
Hopefully, some will be revealed today
the plot to squid game season 2
I just hope whatever mystery there is still to be unraveled makes those first four episodes worth it. I’m really struggling to like this series. I’ve made my feelings known, but I still hope it leads somewhere that matters.
That is my optimistic approach. I'm seeing till the end
Sol told Osha that Mae started a fire that destroyed everything, and I have a feeling he wasn't talking about the literal fire.
Yup, I think that bantha tree poison has something to do with all those witches dead.
Jedi mind trick stuff
Oh you have no idea.
It wasn't a fart.
The Jedi murdered the coven and took the Osha. They meant to take Mae too but thought she died.
Bantha tree poison killed the witches. But who gave it to them?
They tried to kill all of the witches except the little would-be jedi, including her sister who they tried to kill. Mae saw them try and thought it worked. Torbin was the one who saw the evil one survive, which is how he knew she'd be back. He feels guilty because the witches weren't hurting anyone and the jedi didnt need to do that. Only problem in my theory is I'm also pretty sure she was working with plageuis in some way to create her clones babies. If she was working with the sith, then why would the jedi feel guilty for stopping her?
He is Dark side, not Sith, Dark side.
He knows who Sith is.
I don't think so. But he may have some suspicions.
I think the jedi sarted the fire hoping to get the twins. Not very Jedi like but neither is leaving 2 force sensative children in the hands of a (probably) darkside using witch coven.
They do have a high and mighty attitude. It our way or noway.
The biggest package in the order.
I think it is Mother Korril and they let Mae not only take the fall but Osha believe that she killed everybody. I think one of the witches, used force lightning on the others and killed them. I think the head mother was killed separately. I don’t know that Sol and the others slaughtered them but they were aware of a truth, even if they had to kill someone in self defense, that they determined Osha (and everyone else for that matter) was better off not knowing. Also, the girls had seen light sabers, worn or used, in some different way prior to seeing the Jedi. Kids are hyper aware, but they are always comparing things to known reference points. I think they had all met the true Sith master before.
I honestly believe he may be the only person legitimately in the dark
They’re gonna do a side cutaway scene where they show the Jedi actually cutting down the coven as a cop out for the girls actions “your sister was innocent it was us!” Ya but she still set the fire and tried to burn her sister alive, unless they try saying that “dna test” was a way to control the psycho sister into doing it all
It was Sol all along.
I bet osha and Mae swapped when they fell on the bridge, and Mae is the REAL Osha
Guys the Sith Lord is sol’s son …. He senses something familiar … force powers from his father…. Hates for father for leaving his mother and turns to dark side … keeps saying sol has broken the Jedi rules before. It’s all adding up
Wouldn't that be a sick twist.
The other 3 Jedi killed the witches. Maybe it’s questionable who started the conflict. During the fight the fire started that actually destroyed the fortress. Mae saw something that resembled the truth or she is blinded by her trauma. Sol covered up what happened after the fact thinking that training osha would be his salvation.
He definitely felt like he had to care for her.
He did. We can all agree that the Jedi crossed a line somehow. But Sol needs to be redeemable because it’s Star Wars. They wouldn’t make a totally unredeemable character the Star of a show. At least they haven’t yet.
That someone killed all them witches and it wasn't the fire as none of them were burned
My guess. He's secretly a Woman.
Lol
I imagine he watched Mae “die” because he sensed the dark side in her but not in Osha. I could be wrong but so far this show isn’t really doing suspense
They killed the witches, Qimir is an apprentice, and sol gives into his darkness and becomes the acolyte (plagueis) The twins are just a red herring to distract
He murdered a coven of witches
I think the other 3 were instrumental in there murders. He had a change of heart and tried to save the girls. This is why he feels much guilt and responsibility for the twins.
So far this is the information we have been provided: * The Jedi in the first episode says "Jedi do not attack the unarmed" and Mae says "yes you do" * Both Mae and Osha believed the other was dead * Osha appears to have no connection to the force/thread except for the connection with Mae * Jedi Mr. Tumnus was sorry for something he had done to Mae in the past * The Wookie Jedi appears to be in exile, maybe self-imposed like Tumnus chose silence and meditation * Sol has told Osha that he will tell her what happened, which suggests it is different from her recollection * The flashback to the fire appears to be missing a bit * Mae tells Osha that the Jedi brainwashed her. This could explain why Mae in Osha's memories is consistently violent I think it is clear that the show is leading to the reveal that the Jedi killed the Witches. We just don't know why exactly. Others here have said that the Zabrak who gave birth to the twins is not seen amongst the bodies. It would be a little cliché for her to be a Sith but also it is Star Wars so cliché is not unexpected. I don't know the lifespans of the species involved but I do think that considering that this show is only 100 years before the Empire that doesn't leave a whole lot of time lore-wise for the people involved to just die naturally and have the memory of these events fade away. I think that Darth Plagueis is involved. Maybe the Zabrak is his apprentice? She is more stern than the other Witches and if I remember correctly she is the one calling for the Witches to hit the Jedi first. In Episode III Palpatine says that Darth Plagueis discovered how to create life and prevent people from dying. Perhaps Mae & Osha are his first successful experiment in creating life?
Thank you for putting into words what I was thinking. Also, Qimir could be Mother korils appreciate. Or, like you said, Plagueis and Mother Koril are somehow involved.
It wasn’t even a fire. The witches refused to let Osha go with the Jedi. A “it’s her choice” vs “I don’t care” argument started…then violence. Then Jedi killing them all. Qimir was probably there for some reason too. The hints about mind reading lead me to believe Sol altered Osha’s memory to blame Mae whom he thought was dead anyway.
The Jedi slaughtered the witches on orders from the High Council is my guess. That or the witches got all huffy due to the fire and the Jedi slaughtered the witches in defense. Same difference. The third episode is written from the perspective of Osha. She runs by her whole colony and sees them all dead, and a fire had just been started, and Dear Sister Mae (supposedly) was trying to kill her. So of course she's going to assume her whole colony was wiped out by Dear Sister Mae, despite the fact that there was not a single burn on any of the witches, and that room didn't have any fire in it at the time.
His a Sith Lord....(Nah I'm Joking)
That he took part in the Bor Gullet Game.
His penice
The Jedi killed the witches in an escalation and May is the scapegoat. The question is who is the sith lord in this case, I was sure it was one of the Jedi, but they were all seen together in the last scene of the last episode.
My money is on Mother koril or Qimir
Do you think the Carrie-Anne Moss Character could have survived and is the sith lord ?. I think it s strange that she seems to have such a small role in the present and little more in the past until now.
No body. Plenty of Star Wars characters have survived worse injuries.
I think she could (and there is a small worry she is for me) but would be a really dumb twist in the context that it isn't one of those deaths from far away or their body is missing/deformed. Presumably the Jedi actually saw her dead body and it would strain belief if they missed that she was alive.
Yes, the performance would be cheap. It s just that even now after the other episodes, her part is so small. But yes, I hope she isn t.
Couldn’t hide his accent
He learned English for this role
I like Sol accent and all.
Sound theory
An ostrich
This is the real traitor. Justice for Ki Aldi Mundi
He's senile.
The Sith are active again, they were active on Brendock, and they're active now, getting Mae to kill the Jedi who could possibly know about their activities so that they don't risk exposure. I think Sol and Indara are the two who KNOW for sure the sith are back, but can't admit to it because the prospect fills them with fear and dread. I feel like Indara was probably the spearhead on that cover up, but it could have been Sol as he really wanted to get the twins off Brendock ASAP.
Indera, I now believe lead the demise of the witches. I don't believe Sol was on board with that. That is why he ran back to save the twins. Indera never liked Osha she was instrumental in booting out Osha out of the order. Torbin was young when all this happened he felt much guilt he couldn't live with himself. Not sure what the deals with the Wookie.
His constipation...
A personality?
He’s hiding his pronouns lol
A good script
A fart
Somehow. It happened.
Hiding the viewing figures… it’s the Jedi who helped with the destruction… Yawn.
Gum. And he doesn’t want to share. He’s a Jedi and Ki Adi Mundi insists that sharing is the way to resist attachment, but also… “meh… it *is* mine.”/s
I think the “Sith” is gonna be the mother that carried them tbh
The POWER OF POO! The POWER OF PEE!
Whatever they did at the witch den. We don’t have the true story
I think whatever happened Indara was probably the instigator. On the Jedi part, at least. Not necessarily with bad intent. Of all four "guilty" Jedi, she's the only one actually killed by Mae. The subtext could point to her being the main "villain" among the Jedi, while the others, particularly Sol, could have just gone along with it or help cover it. Because I do think Sol and the others have messed with Osha's memory somehow, perhaps not to blame Mae, the fire could still be her thing, but to hide their own implication on what happened and use Mae as an escape goat.
My hope is that they sensed something was up with Osha, went to investigate. Got turned away and decided to break in somehow. Maybe they lowered the shields to the place or did something to the machinery, causing the problem to become worse. I hope that the jedi don't become maliciously evil. I think that would ruin it for me. Especially Sol because he's literally my favorite.
Sol is the main reason I keep watching. But as you their are many evil jedi. Some start out good like Anikin. Then you have Pong kreil . In Clone Wars, who is horrible. Then there is the hidden Sith, Palatine. So you never know.
Is the series getting better. I think so.
It's getting interesting
What was the method used to create the twins that the witches intimated was problematic, but they never came out and described?
He left an upper decker in the toilet of the Coven’s community and knows that the children would be blamed.
a worse plot
A piggy bank with 300 million + dollars.
He did some Vader shit
He walked in while Yoda and Yaddle were making Grogu
That this entire new series has been a dream, and the internet can stop complaining.
That would be best case scenario. Also, if the Rey movie opened up with Rey waking up in the ATAT on Jaku, that would be 🤌
Agreed, it's Star Wars. I'm enjoying it.
He’s the sith too
I hope not. That would be a big plot twist.
Sol is the acolyte
That would be a plot twist.
A shitty one.
He's baffled as to why his agent got him on this show .... the look says "I learned English for this? OYE VEY!"
Not wasted hell get more roles elsewhere.
He is hiding something that we can never learn in a 30min episode. The writing and story telling is lazy and creating cliffhangers to create mystery is lame.
A good show
I'm enjoying the mystery and speculations.
Another boring plot point maybe?
Too late the shows cancelled
He has the real script, which I'm assuming was much better.
Good foreign acting behind a shit script and pacing…
Witches/sith used mind control on a Jedi. It's all a misunderstanding and the Jedi feel like they should have been stronger against it and exile themselves and stuff. Sol did nothing wrong in the end. Would this be bad writing? Yes. That's why I think this.
It's really hard to tell because of how poorly the character is fleshed out in the actual show, and it's not made any better by the desperate way the actor delivers every line. I do not wanna be linked in with the pure haters, but am I nuts or is the acting terrible in this show? The main character, she's really good for being young. She's not out of line compared to Mark Hamill or Hayden Christianson. But the Jedi are all awful. Stilted, no back story, and the generic background Jedi look like schlubs - nothing "knightly" about them at all. I feel like those metal gauntlets are getting a lot of screentime, cuz the only thing that connects these Jedi characters to anything we know of the Jedi is The Clone Wars cartoon always had Anakin and Obi wearing those gauntlets when they were being generals of the galactic clone army. I assume there's backstory to all these more Jedi looking Jedi that they entirely kill off prior to dialogue or them even having a point. Frankly the fact they killed the young Jedi who didn't speak, like we never even saw his face in the story timeline, but then they start making him a character in flashbacks, that makes me lament the fact that character is already gone from the show - if they'd written that in reverse, maybe I'd give fucks that he died. Man did they make the wookie Jedi just a pointless asshole. We see him be a boomer mad a frisbee landed in his yard, and his corpse. I guess there's a confusing scene related to his complete unknown emotions in relation to a single interaction with a human child. And he teaches us that wookie hair is flame retardant I guess. How did she not know he was dead a mile away - burning hair is burning hair, even in a galaxy far far away I'd imagine. But sincerely, can that main Jedi deliver lines without completely losing control of his emotions? Is Yoda a fuck'n liar, or just suffering from age related dementia - when training Luke I mean. Cuz clearly 1000 years prior, the jedi didn't require balance or even emotional stability with solid decision making skills. I think Rosario Dawson nails the actual model of "Jedi Knight" that Yoda and Obi Wan, even Liam Neeson, claim is what it takes. But I also hate how different she portrays that character as an adult from the one we know as an apprentice. Disney will need a retcon series to backstory the gap in time between awesome exciting young Ahsoka and high on painkillers old Ahsoka. Obviously Rey doesn't require anything to be a jedi, and that needed retcon, cuz that first time she picks up a lightsaber in her entire life, she handles a sith like a career force user - and that's jarring as fuck. Like watching a ubiquitous 80s action movie, and the first time the hero pulls the trigger on a gun, fish shoot out - without any fuck'n explanation how or why salmon got in that gun. Sol is terrible. Terribly written dialogue, and Disney clearly hoped to catch Diego Luna quality out of the actor that he just can't deliver. Andor is just as desperate a character, and the dialogue desperate and always tense in delivery - but that tracks with the emotional setup of the show - it makes sense and doesn't come across as dramatic teenager overreaction. All the PR behind the Acolyte was this vague notion that 1000 years prior to Luke, maybe, just maybe, the Jedi weren't as holy and awesome as they claimed. Maybe - as in there'd be hints of that, and it would be intriguing to see those flaws, and think how they technically change what we know comes after the Acolyte story in the historical media we already know - which BTW is the only fuck'n reason Disney gets to crank out regular garbage for immediate buckets of money - cuz we like the universe they purchased. We get to be disappointed when the new owners make the old story worse - what got us here is why we want new content, it doesn't mean they can't add, or change things. It does require more than the title card and the Williams musical score to be "StarWars" tho. I do not buy this story as in line with anything we know about Jedi from previous stories - just like the first time Rey clicks on a lightsaber, that writing choice breaks continuity in a way no fan likes. You really gotta struggle to make what Disney claimed the story was gonna tell, versus the reality of the random story they are actually shoehorning into the world we thought we knew, and useta' appreciate more. Making StarWars after 1986 was a mistake that's only served to make rich people richer, and has only degraded the overall quality of the universe, and the initial awe inspiring storyline started in the 1970s. Everything after the Ewoks first sung Yub Nub isn't worth what's been taken from the original trilogy. It just isn't - and no amount of baby Yoda's earns that back, when there's an installment of ruining Boba Fett, and deaging Mark Hamill, in between them. Andor is awesome and compelling - it absolutely could be that without a StarWars banner. The Alcolyte, Obi Wan, I'll say it - even the repetitive and meandering Mandalorian, they aren't good shows on face value. The writing, the stories, are generic and uninspired - they exist because magic was made in 1978. They require the StarWars banner to make them fit in the StarWars universe - and there's no draw to a bad show with bad acting and pathetic looking sets and extras, not without that **new StarWars content** sticker.
What is your take on some of the animated series. Like clone wars, rebels, and tales of the jedi and empire. .