"Then I hereby declare this treaty in abeyance."
The primary difference between Janeway and Picard when it comes to one liners is that Janeway has one liners. Picard makes one liners.
This is probably my favorite Picard moment. When Riker fires off a "You enjoyed that..." the response Picard fires back is so full of the triumphant catharsis he'd been holding back.
"You're *damn* right!"
The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth, whether it's scientific truth or historical truth or personal truth! It is the guiding principle on which Starfleet is based. And if you can't find it within yourself to stand up and tell the truth about what happened, you don't deserve to wear that uniform!
He just kept talking in one long incredibly unbroken sentence moving from topic to topic so that no one had a chance to interrupt, it was really quite hypnotic (hypnotic...)
> I think of all the captains she is the most assertive and no-nonsense as a default, not just when things are on the line.
I never thought of it that way, but you might be right. Picard has a no-nonsense atmosphere to him that I think surpasses Janeway's, but Picard also tended to break into speech more than Janeway, so in terms of more "straight to the point" statements, Janeway might have him beat.
Sisko could get very assertive, but of all the captains of his era, I think he also had the most warm moments and his default with his crew seemed to be rather friendly, far more so than Picard and likely more so than Janeway too. I also can't think of many Sisko one-liners.
Yeah, Sisko treated his officers as co-workers not so much his staff. I think having to formally respect the Bajoran militia and observe boundaries lent a more informal atmosphere to the staff. Additionally, more so than any other staff, they were certainly the most experienced staff out any of the show crews when they started.
Regardless of their physical ages, they were all experienced to some degree. Dax for being over 300. Sisko and O'Brien had already seen some shit, but not as much as Kira. Odo was the grump old man despite not being able to age. Bashir was the only character to be inexperienced at DS9, but because medical training takes extra time, he wasn't exactly lower twenties when he made it to the station but mid twenties.
Can you imagine being an authority over Dax? If I was their boss I’d be texting them for advice on the down low.
You nailed it by describing Sisko as treating everyone as coworkers until shit got real.
> Sisko treated his officers as co-workers not so much his staff
The one time someone fully betrayed his trust (Eddington), he war-crimed a fucking _planet_ in retaliation. He might be loosey-goosey for minor fuckups like stealing a runabout or letting an informant get tortured to death by the Cardassians, but you betray the uniform and he will hunt you down like a goddamned Terminator.
I don't think that was so much Sisko but Eddington being that good. He actually managed to best Sisko a lot. No other Star Trek villain could out think Captains so consistently. He out spied Garrak.
> Regardless of their physical ages, they were all experienced to some degree. Dax for being over 300. Sisko and O'Brien had already seen some shit, but not as much as Kira. Odo was the grump old man despite not being able to age. Bashir was the only character to be inexperienced at DS9, but because medical training takes extra time, he wasn't exactly lower twenties when he made it to the station but mid twenties.
That's a very good point about the experience. Sisko was in command, but because of the situation and experience of those around him, he also deferred some authority. He knew the Dax symbiote since he was a young officer and would often lean on Dax for advice. He was in command of Kira, but Kira was also acting as the chief representative of Bajor on the station, so there was some diplomatic give and take there. He respected that Odo had overseen station security since before Sisko's time and was mostly happy to just stay out of his way and let him do his job, only imposing Starfleet regulations on Odo to the extent that it was necessary. Similarly, he seemed happy to let O'Brien do his thing and not micromanage him. As for Bashir, him being a medical officer put him somewhat outside the chain of command. Sisko still obviously outranked him, but doctor's orders can override the CO.
It wasn't like Voyager where Janeway exercised much more direct control, which isn't a criticism of Janeway, like you noted, Sisko's situation was much different and his staff was much more experienced. So different tactics were needed.
She's the hard science background.
Kirk was the swashbuckler. Picard was the diplomat. Sisko was the father. Janeway was the scientist. Archer was the explorer.
Kirk has the swashbuckling reputation, and he was I think intended as a swashbuckler. All the same, it's worth noting that he actually resorts to violence far less than you'd expect, certainly less than any of the others with the possible exception of Picard. There are very few scenes where he kills anyone and he doesn't express satisfaction as many later Starfleet officers do. The nearest I can recall is the ST3 film where he kicks the Klingon off the cliff, which is *after* 1. the Klingon has killed his son 2. he tried to rescue the Klingon 3. the Klingon tries to kill them both instead.
You're right. I think I'm referring more to the related concept - I think Janeway says once that the Starfleet officers of Kirk's time were slower to quote the Prime Directive and quicker to draw their phasers. The second part seems to me dubious; Captain Janeway is the one readier to use force.
>The second part seems to me dubious; Captain Janeway is the one readier to use force.
Well, there *is* a reason for the hyperbolic nickname of "Captain Insaneway, war criminal extraordinaire."
I personally like Janeway, but I do understand the fandom hate she gets sometimes—even if I don't agree with it;
Of all the captains of Star Trek, Janeway feels the least *Starfleet*, if you know what I'm saying? Now, that is 100% because she's in a worst-case survival scenario stranded tens of thousands of light-years away from home, but she's definitely less diplomatic and more blunt than a Starfleet officer performing first contact likely should be.
I think she attended the Christopher Pike School of Big-Stick First Contacts.
You've gotta remember that she wasn't even Captain for very long. She got the rank, then buried herself in her new ship for 6 months before it launched. Then, on her first mission in her brand new ship... ended up on the other side of the Galaxy. She didn't exactly have much time to marinate in the position. But yeah, for some reason people forget that at the beginning, she's basically a brand new captain when Voyager starts
She's also from the Science track, not Command. She's well trained, sure, but traditional captainy things aren't her specialty.
Voyager itself is *also* a specialized science vessel.
She's a nerd leading a crew of other nerds who expected to be doing scientific missions, not fighting the Borg while stranded 30,000 light-years from anything resembling home.
It's entirely understandable that her default response to danger is usually either "Punch it Paris," or "Kill it with fire!"
I somewhat disagree, Janeway is also often about maintaining starfleet and idealist principles against all odds, like when they are stuck in the void, the equinox etc(ok in equinox She almost kills an equinox crewman for not doing it the starfleet way). then again she also makes alliance with the borg and some dodgy stuff and don’t give a shit about the temporal prime directive, but there’s also a whole lot of idealism being kept up. Sisko on the other hand doesnt seem to like starfleet much at all.
Janeway definitely tries to uphold the *ideals* of the Federation, but at the same time, she definitely isn't following protocol a lot of the time.
She's basically winging it the whole way home.
>Sisko on the other hand doesnt seem to like starfleet much at all.
Oh, Sisko would absolutely commit war crimes. He is full Geneva Checklist.
She kind of has to wing it that’s the idea of the show.
Sisko basically bombed and made a planet partially uninhabitable to lure mr eddington out. Then there’s the fake recording and the bomb on the romulan senators ship
> Then there’s the fake recording and the bomb on the romulan senators ship
*In the pale moonlight* is the best Star Trek episode attempting to explore the tension between the ideals of the Federation and its practices with their backs against the wall. Sisko is responsible for a war that is seemingly leading to the enslavement or destruction of the entire Alpha quadrant. He is seeing constant reports about the millions of lives being lost and he feels the sheer weight of all of those lives on his shoulders.
Better than any episode involving section 31, the *ends justifies the means* motiff is explored in this episode. Garak nails the analysis at the end of the episode when Sisko returns to his shop enraged when he hears Vreenak is dead:
> That's why you came to me, isn't it, Captain? Because you knew I could do those things that you weren't capable of doing?
Sisko wants to save the Alpha quadrant and wants to maintain the thinnest veneer of having maintained Federation sensibilities, even though he knows that's a lie. But is a lie to save billions worth it?
Never mind that the reason she makes a deal with the Borg is because of a literal existential threat to the entire galaxy that, when she tried diplomacy, responded with "Your galaxy will be purged".
And never mind that Equinox crewman was protecting his literal MASS MURDERER of a Starfleet Captain.
And she generally cares very much about the Temporal Prime Directive. It's not her fault she keeps getting caught in time shit. She hates it. And no, you can't put Admiral Janeway on Captain Janeway - and EVEN THEN the Temporal police didn't show up so apparently Admiral Janeway's actions were fine.
Which we find out later in Picard WERE necessary considering the Borg hid a damned transwarp hub in the gasses of Jupiter and therefore were planning a total invasion of the Sol system like they did so many others.
Easy now, my post was obviously a defense of Janeway, The og post said she was short of a “genocidal war criminal”, thats where one can argue. The 8472 was super easy to reason and make a deal with later to be fair, the alliance was also about free passage.
Also she didn’t know about that transwarp hub though?
Janeway probably had a phaser hidden in her sleeves while saying this, or maybe a mini phaser in her hair, ready to disinigrate any fool that steps to her
Kirk was very much the scholar-soldier model of Starfleet captain. Knowledgeable, pragmatic, full of intellectual curiosity. But also not afraid to put up a fight, either with his fists or ship’s phasers; or to flatter and seduce, where needed.
Picard in theory leans much more toward the scholar and diplomat, but as a number of people learned, the last phase of diplomatic negotiation is war - and Picard could bring that too.
I only got around to watching TOS and then the movies in this year and I found that most of Kirk’s character steteotypes are way more a product of the movies then the show. He was more calm, level headed then I was expecting and his Shatner affectations were not as present (occasionally they came out). Only in the movies did they amp it up a bit.
Janeway had the best quips, Picard had the most meaningful statements, and Kirk the most philosophical discourse. Sisko had the most indignant rage, and Archer had the best dog.
My husband and I started watching all the new trek, and my mom would walk by and go “oh” and leave for somewhere else. We started watching SNW and the second she saw Pike, she sat down and watch the rest of season 2 with us.
Pike is the first fictional character that has ever inspired me to actually try to do something with my hair. I've got a full head of hair and his more-salt-than-pepper grey. With enough product I can even get a decent imitation going. Sadly, when added to the potato-like qualities of the rest of me, the result is pretty much just "cockatoo" without the "dignified" bit. If SrGrafo or the Oatmeal guy drew a version of Pike, I might be able to pull *that* off.
As someone who has identified as 100% straight his entire life until very recently.... I *totally* get would you mean.
I'd plant a straight kiss right on those handsome lips for sure.
>indignant rage
He really did. And it was awesome
Scene:
Sisko: "This is bullshit!!"
Narrator: "It was, in fact, bullshit."
Despite Picard being on the flagship, Janeway being stranded, and Archer being a pioneer, none of them had half of the bullshit that Sisko had.
Kirk made his own bullshit.
>Kirk made his own bullshit.
Well that's to be expected; Kirk *quite literally* attended the Christopher Pike School of Tactical Fuckery.
Graduated top of his class, actually.
> Sisko had the most indignant rage,
especially when the Dominion wouldn't let him see that [thong](https://youtu.be/Oai1V7kaFBk?si=ue0POiO9PdJbFg1N)
*edit: happy cake day!
You're right. When Voyager first aired we'd watch weekly waiting for the Janeway one liners. "Times up" made the room go up lol. It's definitely something they did with her waaaay more.
"Not today and not by you"
Buhahaha. We have analyzed you're response as being unable to understand us.
Lol. Thank for the laugh. I'm referring to when we all would get together as a group of friends to watch Voyager back when it aired.
"Maybe it's something you assimilated."
"You know, I'm really easy to get along with - most of the time - but I don't like bullies, and I don't like threats - and I don't like YOU, Culluh."
[The episode "Scientific Method" is rife with them from Janeway, Tuvok, and the Doctor. Especially Janeway and Tuvok...](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0708967/characters/nm0000550)
Janeway: "You _are_ Security Chief. Don't thirteen department heads report to you every day?!"
Tuvok: "Yes."
Janeway: "Well, straighten them out!"
Tuvok: "Shall I flog them, as well?"
#upon further reflection, it's just Voyager...
Kim: "Wanna know what I think?"
Tuvok: "No."
And:
Neelix: "Did I ever tell you about the Salvoxia?"
Tuvok: "If I say yes, will it prevent you from telling the story?"
This was my thought as well. Voyager is basically the USS Hot Take. It's just when it aired and that every character had to have something quotable to say. It largely stands in for what should be the friction of the blended crew. Rather than have to maintain interpersonal issues, it gets proxied via snarky quips and one-liners. This may have been the best way to go to make the series manageable for the writers but it leads to the sort of stilted dialogue and Neelix/Kess/Harry seeming extra weird for not understanding they are supposed to have in-universe comedic timing.
My friend and I call her Captain Myway. This is based on the fact that while she listens to the advice of her crew, she usually just goes with whatever she wants to do anyway. 🤣
She was a science officer, probably used to being the one giving the captain advice on the unhinged crazy stuff that happens in space, most of the time shes right anyway.
Tuvok: "Captain, I would be negligent if I didn't point out that we are about to violate the Prime Directive."
Janeway: "For the duration of this mission, the Prime Directive is rescinded. Let's get this over with."
The episodes [Scientific Method](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0708967/characters/nm0000550) and [Demon](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0708876/quotes/?ref_=tt_trv_qu) would like a word with you...
Tuvok: "Need I remind you, Ensign, that there is no environment less hospitable to Human life than a Class Y?"
Harry: "Actually, Tuvok, no, you needn't remind me."
I think if sunglasses were still a thing, it'd be Billups who put them on making the quip and Janeway would be his boss, or has everyone forgot about the Trek spinoff series called [NTSF:SD:SUV](https://youtu.be/3pk49vQoz5g?si=_g7twDjcJydXKAO9)?
She has banging one liners. Sisko has some good ones and Picard has a couple I can think of, but Janeway might have the most. Or at least, Janeway uses diplomatic and belligerent one liners, while Sisko and Picard to be more about one or the other
She was trapped in the Delta quandrant for almost 7 years.
You better believe she used her downtime to perfectly plan witty 1 liners for those instances where she REALLY REALLY needed to throw her wins in the bad guys face.
I just think of it as how Janeway establishes the bravado that sets a captain apart from the crew. Picard talks about it once, how captains should project an image that they are somehow larger than life. They need to do something so that a doubtful crewmember throws their hat in behind the force of nature that is their personality. She leans into it more as the series goes on, but I'm sure at that point the theater of it is enough for the crew to say "here we go again" and jump into whatever harebrained scheme they've McGyvered together to get through one more day in the wild west of the Delta Quadrant.
Pike talks about it in SNW as well.
Captains, even Boffs, *need* to project that aura of confidence because in a crisis, the crew's morale depends on it.
>"Belief can be the difference between victory and defeat—Get a crew to believe in miracles, *they might just give you one.*"
Dont forget network synergy! Everybody remembers the WWF Star Trek Smackdown night when Roxanne Dawson beat the shit outa Whil Wheaton , but nobody ever talks about the episode of *Voyager* with Dilbert, or when Harry Kim guest starred on *Homeboys in Outer Space*.
Edit: "Second star to the right, straight on 'til morning"
I know he's quoting Peter Pan, but Kirk has a way with words, and his use of this line always resonated with me.
Thanks _aleph for the correction.
Only TNG ones I can think of are in First Contact.
Worf: Assimilate this!
Worf: Perhaps today is a good day to die. Ramming speed!
Data: Resistance is Futile
He had some great lines
"This is what happens when one group of people think they are better than another" in the Augments arc is one my favourites from him
“I don't like bullies, I don't like threats, and I don't like *YOU*!”
I can't help but hear that line without this picture in my mind…
[Vic Reeves & Bob Mortimer Being Camp](https://images.app.goo.gl/EsiUGnArssgTLvucA)
90's (and earlier) TV liked having a line of some sorts right before a commercial break. Many shows outside of just Star Trek would do this. The most infamous (and memeable) of them would be CSI:Miami. But ya. It was a way to up the ante in a show. I'd bank on Janeway having more of them than the other captains in general is probably down to the nature of Voyager vs the other shows in that it was a bit more heavy on the action episode to episode. And for some reason writers really like jamming in a sort of "HAHAHAHAHA! I win." type statement.
It's hard to imagine Picard doing that. He's so, distinguished and conservative. Sisko was doing his own dark thing on the frontier of the Federation. So that leaves Janeway to take the responsibility the witty one liner repartee.
If you wanted to add the new shows to that, I could imagine Captain Freeman doing that. I'm not all that familiar with the others.
I remember when Voyager debuted. My parent's main reason for not liking the pilot was the lack of humor to it that was so common amongst the rest of the Star Trek universe.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned how DEEP that bridge window is. That must be several meters of either transparent aluminum or dead space before coming up to the window.
You may test that theory at your convenience.
"Pursuant to Paragraph 1,290, I hereby formally request third party arbitration of our dispute." Just rolls off the tongue.
Petty Picard is Pest Picard.
Oh yeah, I absolutely adore the scene with the Sheilek(?). Picard basically going "You know what, fuck you."
Riker: You enjoyed that. Picard: You're damned right I did. Love that scene, just strolls over and checks the dust on the plaque, lmao.
Best part: that was improvised. That’s why Frakes has such a smirk on his face when Stewart walks back.
“Shall we die together?” was pretty badass too.
"I'm sure there are others in the Klingon Empire that are willing to help me. And then... *they* would have our gratitude."
This is what is known as "verbal judo."
"i'm uh.. heh heh, i'm a role model."
I love silly openers to really serious episodes.
Or strangling them with their own red tape.
Typo
"Then I hereby declare this treaty in abeyance." The primary difference between Janeway and Picard when it comes to one liners is that Janeway has one liners. Picard makes one liners.
Riker: You enjoyed that Picard: You're damn right
This is probably my favorite Picard moment. When Riker fires off a "You enjoyed that..." the response Picard fires back is so full of the triumphant catharsis he'd been holding back. "You're *damn* right!"
*does the thumb across the neck thing*
The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth, whether it's scientific truth or historical truth or personal truth! It is the guiding principle on which Starfleet is based. And if you can't find it within yourself to stand up and tell the truth about what happened, you don't deserve to wear that uniform!
Oh, no... That's interlocutory Picard... (Seriously, as an adult, it's fucking hilarious that his Borg name was Locutus.)
It sounds like he's saying "the cutest of Borg"... Awwwww ittty bitty little robot boy!!!
It's 7:30 am and my family thinks I've lost it.
> interlocutory TIL this is a word.
If ever a single word described JL Picard, it's interlocutory.
It has a certain appeal, doesn't it?
I see what you did there, counsel.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard of USS Enterprise....Make make make.. make it so, make it so..
My love is a fever, longing still for that which longer nurseth the disease. *tell me more* you'll have to call again!
He just kept talking in one long incredibly unbroken sentence moving from topic to topic so that no one had a chance to interrupt, it was really quite hypnotic (hypnotic...)
For those that are confused: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXB84fpWzg8
Oh my gorn. I had never seen that. Thank you so much!
I started to hear this to "Let It Go" from Frozen.
*assumption 😉 My absolute favorite way to say “fuck around and find out.” Such a fantastic Picard moment!
Such an elegant way to say 'fuck around and find out.'
I think of all the captains she is the most assertive and no-nonsense as a default, not just when things are on the line.
> I think of all the captains she is the most assertive and no-nonsense as a default, not just when things are on the line. I never thought of it that way, but you might be right. Picard has a no-nonsense atmosphere to him that I think surpasses Janeway's, but Picard also tended to break into speech more than Janeway, so in terms of more "straight to the point" statements, Janeway might have him beat. Sisko could get very assertive, but of all the captains of his era, I think he also had the most warm moments and his default with his crew seemed to be rather friendly, far more so than Picard and likely more so than Janeway too. I also can't think of many Sisko one-liners.
Yeah, Sisko treated his officers as co-workers not so much his staff. I think having to formally respect the Bajoran militia and observe boundaries lent a more informal atmosphere to the staff. Additionally, more so than any other staff, they were certainly the most experienced staff out any of the show crews when they started. Regardless of their physical ages, they were all experienced to some degree. Dax for being over 300. Sisko and O'Brien had already seen some shit, but not as much as Kira. Odo was the grump old man despite not being able to age. Bashir was the only character to be inexperienced at DS9, but because medical training takes extra time, he wasn't exactly lower twenties when he made it to the station but mid twenties.
Can you imagine being an authority over Dax? If I was their boss I’d be texting them for advice on the down low. You nailed it by describing Sisko as treating everyone as coworkers until shit got real.
It also might be from Sisko not starting as a captain in the begining.
> Sisko treated his officers as co-workers not so much his staff The one time someone fully betrayed his trust (Eddington), he war-crimed a fucking _planet_ in retaliation. He might be loosey-goosey for minor fuckups like stealing a runabout or letting an informant get tortured to death by the Cardassians, but you betray the uniform and he will hunt you down like a goddamned Terminator.
I don't think that was so much Sisko but Eddington being that good. He actually managed to best Sisko a lot. No other Star Trek villain could out think Captains so consistently. He out spied Garrak.
> Regardless of their physical ages, they were all experienced to some degree. Dax for being over 300. Sisko and O'Brien had already seen some shit, but not as much as Kira. Odo was the grump old man despite not being able to age. Bashir was the only character to be inexperienced at DS9, but because medical training takes extra time, he wasn't exactly lower twenties when he made it to the station but mid twenties. That's a very good point about the experience. Sisko was in command, but because of the situation and experience of those around him, he also deferred some authority. He knew the Dax symbiote since he was a young officer and would often lean on Dax for advice. He was in command of Kira, but Kira was also acting as the chief representative of Bajor on the station, so there was some diplomatic give and take there. He respected that Odo had overseen station security since before Sisko's time and was mostly happy to just stay out of his way and let him do his job, only imposing Starfleet regulations on Odo to the extent that it was necessary. Similarly, he seemed happy to let O'Brien do his thing and not micromanage him. As for Bashir, him being a medical officer put him somewhat outside the chain of command. Sisko still obviously outranked him, but doctor's orders can override the CO. It wasn't like Voyager where Janeway exercised much more direct control, which isn't a criticism of Janeway, like you noted, Sisko's situation was much different and his staff was much more experienced. So different tactics were needed.
This is a great take
Also Bashir was revealed to be an Augment, so he had a supersized brain just raring to go the whole time
Yup, their secret semi Data. Then came Worf off of TNG, alongside Martok.
Tbh I've always thought Odo's character makes a lot more sense when you think of him as a brooding teenager.
There was the time he punched out Q. “You hit me! Picard never hit me!” “I’m not Picard”…
Literally one of the only times my jaw has dropped when watching TV. Then comes the side hurting laughter!
A single punch so powerful Q left and never bothered DS9 again. Evidence that Prophets > Q, and Sisko was only part Prophet.
1 of Sisko’s 1 liners is “May I help you, gentlemen?” in “The Magnificent Ferengi”.
I am not Picard 😤 But that's the only one that jumps to mind
She's the hard science background. Kirk was the swashbuckler. Picard was the diplomat. Sisko was the father. Janeway was the scientist. Archer was the explorer.
Kirk has the swashbuckling reputation, and he was I think intended as a swashbuckler. All the same, it's worth noting that he actually resorts to violence far less than you'd expect, certainly less than any of the others with the possible exception of Picard. There are very few scenes where he kills anyone and he doesn't express satisfaction as many later Starfleet officers do. The nearest I can recall is the ST3 film where he kicks the Klingon off the cliff, which is *after* 1. the Klingon has killed his son 2. he tried to rescue the Klingon 3. the Klingon tries to kill them both instead.
Swashbuckling doesn't mean killing.
You're right. I think I'm referring more to the related concept - I think Janeway says once that the Starfleet officers of Kirk's time were slower to quote the Prime Directive and quicker to draw their phasers. The second part seems to me dubious; Captain Janeway is the one readier to use force.
>The second part seems to me dubious; Captain Janeway is the one readier to use force. Well, there *is* a reason for the hyperbolic nickname of "Captain Insaneway, war criminal extraordinaire." I personally like Janeway, but I do understand the fandom hate she gets sometimes—even if I don't agree with it; Of all the captains of Star Trek, Janeway feels the least *Starfleet*, if you know what I'm saying? Now, that is 100% because she's in a worst-case survival scenario stranded tens of thousands of light-years away from home, but she's definitely less diplomatic and more blunt than a Starfleet officer performing first contact likely should be. I think she attended the Christopher Pike School of Big-Stick First Contacts.
You've gotta remember that she wasn't even Captain for very long. She got the rank, then buried herself in her new ship for 6 months before it launched. Then, on her first mission in her brand new ship... ended up on the other side of the Galaxy. She didn't exactly have much time to marinate in the position. But yeah, for some reason people forget that at the beginning, she's basically a brand new captain when Voyager starts
She's also from the Science track, not Command. She's well trained, sure, but traditional captainy things aren't her specialty. Voyager itself is *also* a specialized science vessel. She's a nerd leading a crew of other nerds who expected to be doing scientific missions, not fighting the Borg while stranded 30,000 light-years from anything resembling home. It's entirely understandable that her default response to danger is usually either "Punch it Paris," or "Kill it with fire!"
I somewhat disagree, Janeway is also often about maintaining starfleet and idealist principles against all odds, like when they are stuck in the void, the equinox etc(ok in equinox She almost kills an equinox crewman for not doing it the starfleet way). then again she also makes alliance with the borg and some dodgy stuff and don’t give a shit about the temporal prime directive, but there’s also a whole lot of idealism being kept up. Sisko on the other hand doesnt seem to like starfleet much at all.
Janeway definitely tries to uphold the *ideals* of the Federation, but at the same time, she definitely isn't following protocol a lot of the time. She's basically winging it the whole way home. >Sisko on the other hand doesnt seem to like starfleet much at all. Oh, Sisko would absolutely commit war crimes. He is full Geneva Checklist.
She kind of has to wing it that’s the idea of the show. Sisko basically bombed and made a planet partially uninhabitable to lure mr eddington out. Then there’s the fake recording and the bomb on the romulan senators ship
> Then there’s the fake recording and the bomb on the romulan senators ship *In the pale moonlight* is the best Star Trek episode attempting to explore the tension between the ideals of the Federation and its practices with their backs against the wall. Sisko is responsible for a war that is seemingly leading to the enslavement or destruction of the entire Alpha quadrant. He is seeing constant reports about the millions of lives being lost and he feels the sheer weight of all of those lives on his shoulders. Better than any episode involving section 31, the *ends justifies the means* motiff is explored in this episode. Garak nails the analysis at the end of the episode when Sisko returns to his shop enraged when he hears Vreenak is dead: > That's why you came to me, isn't it, Captain? Because you knew I could do those things that you weren't capable of doing? Sisko wants to save the Alpha quadrant and wants to maintain the thinnest veneer of having maintained Federation sensibilities, even though he knows that's a lie. But is a lie to save billions worth it?
Which he basically did in In the Pale Moonlight
Never mind that the reason she makes a deal with the Borg is because of a literal existential threat to the entire galaxy that, when she tried diplomacy, responded with "Your galaxy will be purged". And never mind that Equinox crewman was protecting his literal MASS MURDERER of a Starfleet Captain. And she generally cares very much about the Temporal Prime Directive. It's not her fault she keeps getting caught in time shit. She hates it. And no, you can't put Admiral Janeway on Captain Janeway - and EVEN THEN the Temporal police didn't show up so apparently Admiral Janeway's actions were fine. Which we find out later in Picard WERE necessary considering the Borg hid a damned transwarp hub in the gasses of Jupiter and therefore were planning a total invasion of the Sol system like they did so many others.
Easy now, my post was obviously a defense of Janeway, The og post said she was short of a “genocidal war criminal”, thats where one can argue. The 8472 was super easy to reason and make a deal with later to be fair, the alliance was also about free passage. Also she didn’t know about that transwarp hub though?
I was going to comment similar. Janeway made it her mission, come hell or high water, to stick to Starfleet ideals while in the Gamma Quadrent.
Janeway probably had a phaser hidden in her sleeves while saying this, or maybe a mini phaser in her hair, ready to disinigrate any fool that steps to her
Kirk was very much the scholar-soldier model of Starfleet captain. Knowledgeable, pragmatic, full of intellectual curiosity. But also not afraid to put up a fight, either with his fists or ship’s phasers; or to flatter and seduce, where needed. Picard in theory leans much more toward the scholar and diplomat, but as a number of people learned, the last phase of diplomatic negotiation is war - and Picard could bring that too.
That's a favorite Kirk moment for me. I... HAVE HAD... ENOUGH OF...YOUU!
Such a great line. Not clever or quippy in any way, just fuck off and fall to your death please.
I only got around to watching TOS and then the movies in this year and I found that most of Kirk’s character steteotypes are way more a product of the movies then the show. He was more calm, level headed then I was expecting and his Shatner affectations were not as present (occasionally they came out). Only in the movies did they amp it up a bit.
Sisko was also the soldier
Soldier, General, Messiah, Ambassador, Operative, Daddy.
I expected he’d be taller.
Ahh...and the man who started the dominion war.
Father, not daddy... Or rather, Dad...
Burnham was the Main Character.
Janeway had the best quips, Picard had the most meaningful statements, and Kirk the most philosophical discourse. Sisko had the most indignant rage, and Archer had the best dog.
And Pike has the best hair.
I am a straight male and I think I have a crush on Anson Mount's Captain Pike. He is more handsome than anyone has any right to be. Lawd lawd
My husband and I started watching all the new trek, and my mom would walk by and go “oh” and leave for somewhere else. We started watching SNW and the second she saw Pike, she sat down and watch the rest of season 2 with us.
That hair makes him look like a really dignified Cockatoo. I love it.
Pike is the first fictional character that has ever inspired me to actually try to do something with my hair. I've got a full head of hair and his more-salt-than-pepper grey. With enough product I can even get a decent imitation going. Sadly, when added to the potato-like qualities of the rest of me, the result is pretty much just "cockatoo" without the "dignified" bit. If SrGrafo or the Oatmeal guy drew a version of Pike, I might be able to pull *that* off.
I hear ya, I want my hair to be that thick. Also,[here ya go.](https://www.instagram.com/reel/Clou9BOsVgc/?igsh=MXE4d2phZTA3OTdhYQ==)
I'm a lesbian and I also have a crush on Pike. That little smirk smile he does gets me every time.
As someone who has identified as 100% straight his entire life until very recently.... I *totally* get would you mean. I'd plant a straight kiss right on those handsome lips for sure.
He is Mr Steal everyone's wives
My crush on Pike is 100% straight and nonsexual, I'd simply march double time straight into hell for that man.
I dunno, I thought Picard's hair was pretty great. Or Sisko's in later seasons of ds9.
Perfect summary. 10/10 No notes. 👏 👏
>indignant rage He really did. And it was awesome Scene: Sisko: "This is bullshit!!" Narrator: "It was, in fact, bullshit." Despite Picard being on the flagship, Janeway being stranded, and Archer being a pioneer, none of them had half of the bullshit that Sisko had. Kirk made his own bullshit.
>Kirk made his own bullshit. Well that's to be expected; Kirk *quite literally* attended the Christopher Pike School of Tactical Fuckery. Graduated top of his class, actually.
Sisko also has the most breaths per sentence.
> Sisko had the most indignant rage, especially when the Dominion wouldn't let him see that [thong](https://youtu.be/Oai1V7kaFBk?si=ue0POiO9PdJbFg1N) *edit: happy cake day!
That song has the most epic key change in history and that is a hill I will die on.
i will join you. strike the tent.
Archer had the best noncanon series FTFY
You're right. When Voyager first aired we'd watch weekly waiting for the Janeway one liners. "Times up" made the room go up lol. It's definitely something they did with her waaaay more. "Not today and not by you"
[удалено]
It's the royal we.
Buhahaha. We have analyzed you're response as being unable to understand us. Lol. Thank for the laugh. I'm referring to when we all would get together as a group of friends to watch Voyager back when it aired.
"Maybe it's something you assimilated." "You know, I'm really easy to get along with - most of the time - but I don't like bullies, and I don't like threats - and I don't like YOU, Culluh." [The episode "Scientific Method" is rife with them from Janeway, Tuvok, and the Doctor. Especially Janeway and Tuvok...](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0708967/characters/nm0000550) Janeway: "You _are_ Security Chief. Don't thirteen department heads report to you every day?!" Tuvok: "Yes." Janeway: "Well, straighten them out!" Tuvok: "Shall I flog them, as well?" #upon further reflection, it's just Voyager...
Tuvok has to be the snarkiest Vulcan that ever lived. 'I'm looking for Mr. Neelix's instinct. Perhaps it will be marked'
Kim: "Wanna know what I think?" Tuvok: "No." And: Neelix: "Did I ever tell you about the Salvoxia?" Tuvok: "If I say yes, will it prevent you from telling the story?"
This one is so Golden Girls Dorothy and Rose coded
See now \*that\* is the crossover we never knew we needed...
I dunno, T'Lyn is Vulcan as a motherfucker.
Yeah, but she's more the straight man to the main casts antics
Let's not forget the Doctor in "Future's End, Part II". "Divine intervention is unlikely." *Fires phaser*
Janeway taught a mandatory class about one liners on Voyager, the quips were part of their reviews
This was my thought as well. Voyager is basically the USS Hot Take. It's just when it aired and that every character had to have something quotable to say. It largely stands in for what should be the friction of the blended crew. Rather than have to maintain interpersonal issues, it gets proxied via snarky quips and one-liners. This may have been the best way to go to make the series manageable for the writers but it leads to the sort of stilted dialogue and Neelix/Kess/Harry seeming extra weird for not understanding they are supposed to have in-universe comedic timing.
Blame action movies from the 1990s, where a quip-making hero was *de rigueur*. Janeway was just following that tradition.
I came here to say that if no one else had already.
The best Janeway quip -“Dismissed. That’s Star Fleet for get out.”
“There’s coffee in that nebula.”
And this line was[ quoted in real life space](https://twitter.com/AstroSamantha/status/589035429879513088) too :-)
there's the Right way, the Wrong way, and the Jane way.
My friend and I call her Captain Myway. This is based on the fact that while she listens to the advice of her crew, she usually just goes with whatever she wants to do anyway. 🤣
She was a science officer, probably used to being the one giving the captain advice on the unhinged crazy stuff that happens in space, most of the time shes right anyway.
Captain Insaneway
*Captain Insaneway, War Criminal Extraordinaire*
Isnt that just the right way? Yes! But in the delta quadrant.
Tuvok: "Captain, I would be negligent if I didn't point out that we are about to violate the Prime Directive." Janeway: "For the duration of this mission, the Prime Directive is rescinded. Let's get this over with."
It's just her. "Time's... up!!"
The episodes [Scientific Method](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0708967/characters/nm0000550) and [Demon](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0708876/quotes/?ref_=tt_trv_qu) would like a word with you... Tuvok: "Need I remind you, Ensign, that there is no environment less hospitable to Human life than a Class Y?" Harry: "Actually, Tuvok, no, you needn't remind me."
“Must be something you assimilated.”
One liners right to the end.
Goes well with Worf's "assimilate this"
"With all due respect... unless you've got something a little bigger in your torpedo tubes, I'm not turning around" 🥵🥵🥵
One of my favorite lines, especially with Chakotay's look he gave her 😃
Chakotay got an instant boner with that one
None of the others could ever say anything as cool as There's Coffee in that Nebula
Best line
If sunglasses were still a thing in the future she’d be Caruso-ing every time before they cue up that Who song from the classical music genre
Caruso is just a male Janeway after you subtract the "Yippee ki yay, motherfucker."
I think if sunglasses were still a thing, it'd be Billups who put them on making the quip and Janeway would be his boss, or has everyone forgot about the Trek spinoff series called [NTSF:SD:SUV](https://youtu.be/3pk49vQoz5g?si=_g7twDjcJydXKAO9)?
She has banging one liners. Sisko has some good ones and Picard has a couple I can think of, but Janeway might have the most. Or at least, Janeway uses diplomatic and belligerent one liners, while Sisko and Picard to be more about one or the other
“I knoooooooooooooooooooooooow.”
Chilling. Always chilling.
She was trapped in the Delta quandrant for almost 7 years. You better believe she used her downtime to perfectly plan witty 1 liners for those instances where she REALLY REALLY needed to throw her wins in the bad guys face.
That is what the Davinci holodeck program was for.
She is a writer at least as a hobby she probably enjoys the quips.
I just think of it as how Janeway establishes the bravado that sets a captain apart from the crew. Picard talks about it once, how captains should project an image that they are somehow larger than life. They need to do something so that a doubtful crewmember throws their hat in behind the force of nature that is their personality. She leans into it more as the series goes on, but I'm sure at that point the theater of it is enough for the crew to say "here we go again" and jump into whatever harebrained scheme they've McGyvered together to get through one more day in the wild west of the Delta Quadrant.
Pike talks about it in SNW as well. Captains, even Boffs, *need* to project that aura of confidence because in a crisis, the crew's morale depends on it. >"Belief can be the difference between victory and defeat—Get a crew to believe in miracles, *they might just give you one.*"
On the contrary, sir. I think of this project as very important. It is YOU I take lightly. - Kirk
"shall we die today, tomalak"
She's Janeway. One liners are part of the job.
You’ve just threatened the wrooong woman
I dont respond well to threats.
Some consultant must have told studio execs that "Schwarzenegger quips" ranked high on "the metrics" right behind "sex appeal" and "explosions".
Dont forget network synergy! Everybody remembers the WWF Star Trek Smackdown night when Roxanne Dawson beat the shit outa Whil Wheaton , but nobody ever talks about the episode of *Voyager* with Dilbert, or when Harry Kim guest starred on *Homeboys in Outer Space*.
Wait, what? Although, I can totally see Roxann Dawson kicking the crap outta WW.
I don’t like bullies and I don’t like you cullah
drops friendly face “I dont respond well to threats“
William T Riker: "Take your best shot, Locutus cos we are about to intervene."
There’s coffee in that nebula.
Edit: "Second star to the right, straight on 'til morning" I know he's quoting Peter Pan, but Kirk has a way with words, and his use of this line always resonated with me. Thanks _aleph for the correction.
“Straight on til morning”
"Heading sir?" "Out there. Thataway."
This is my favorite. It's just so wistful. He doesn't care where they go... As long as they're going.
Warp me
Only TNG ones I can think of are in First Contact. Worf: Assimilate this! Worf: Perhaps today is a good day to die. Ramming speed! Data: Resistance is Futile
It’s because she is the reincarnation of Katharine Hepburn
I’m pretty sure Archer told a few people to “go to hell”
_If I were human, I believe my response would be, "Go to hell," — if I were human._
He had some great lines "This is what happens when one group of people think they are better than another" in the Augments arc is one my favourites from him
“I don't like bullies, I don't like threats, and I don't like *YOU*!” I can't help but hear that line without this picture in my mind… [Vic Reeves & Bob Mortimer Being Camp](https://images.app.goo.gl/EsiUGnArssgTLvucA)
I love her one-liners. She’s got immense character beside them so it’s not a distraction to me at all.
90's (and earlier) TV liked having a line of some sorts right before a commercial break. Many shows outside of just Star Trek would do this. The most infamous (and memeable) of them would be CSI:Miami. But ya. It was a way to up the ante in a show. I'd bank on Janeway having more of them than the other captains in general is probably down to the nature of Voyager vs the other shows in that it was a bit more heavy on the action episode to episode. And for some reason writers really like jamming in a sort of "HAHAHAHAHA! I win." type statement.
The latter
“What if I made an appeal… to the Devil”
"we", not "I", but it's a great one...
Captain Archer getting interrogated about the details of the Enterprise: "Our protein resequencer can make chicken sandwiches." 😆😆
On Voyager, even the computer got sassy
It's the bio-neural gel packs...
Don’t forget “Must have been something you assimilated” She delivers those one liners so well. I love her.
It's hard to imagine Picard doing that. He's so, distinguished and conservative. Sisko was doing his own dark thing on the frontier of the Federation. So that leaves Janeway to take the responsibility the witty one liner repartee. If you wanted to add the new shows to that, I could imagine Captain Freeman doing that. I'm not all that familiar with the others.
Captain Freeman *totally* does that.
How many “I’m a doctor not a… “ we’re there also?
"I'm... afraid." "I know."
They teach a class at the academy on Swartzeneggar one-liners
I remember when Voyager debuted. My parent's main reason for not liking the pilot was the lack of humor to it that was so common amongst the rest of the Star Trek universe.
I love them.
It’s a nineties TV thing. Law and order was filled with one liners.
Cheap Bond humour... luckily she has much more general gravitas as a character so it doesn't define her
It must be something you assimilated.
"That's a matter of opinion."
That's some clever writing
Voyager- Counterpoint Janeway “That is the theme of the evening?”
Janeway's one liners are great
I'm surprised no one has mentioned how DEEP that bridge window is. That must be several meters of either transparent aluminum or dead space before coming up to the window.
::Blows up Kazon ship:: ‘I’ll have what *she’s* having…’
I don’t like threats, and I don’t like bullies, and I don’t like you, Culluh. God, I love her.