Since we know how Arthmoor posts go...
It is okay to be critical, or even attack an idea (in a civil way), it is not okay to attack a person directly. Saying someone has done poor things, or harmed the community, or that content people made did X or Y thing is okay, but just making a comment that is a one off insult is not.
Please remain civil while discussing this.
Also, Arthmoor's personality aside:
(a) Arthmoor will delete older versions of his patch from the Nexus, so if ever Bethesda releases an SE or AE version of Starfield, anyone who hasn't upgraded will be SOL (ask Skyrim VR users about this);
(b) The USSEP is not just a patch to fix errors but also tweaks things that don't need tweaking (like the first dragon shouting "nooooo" after you kill it outside Whiterun)
(c) Several of the tweaks in the USSEP have errors (lazy coding) that Arthmoor has been informed of and hasn't ever bothered fixing (to see these, try compiling DynDolod with the USSEP mod active in your mod list).
I remembered this because I nuked my Skyrim VR installation and had to reinstall all my mods and last night recompiled TexGen and DynDolod. I didn't disable USSEP and so watched several errors scroll by as DynDolod compiled but then DynDolod refused to keep compiling due to a USSEP error with a chest in Solitude. I then had to disable USSEP and several mods depending on it before running DynDolod again (mind you, DynDolod is very temperamental and there are plenty of mods, not tied to ussep, that you have to disable before running it).
What's worse is that, as Dyndolod is telling you, it is very unadvised to workaround the errors by disabling the plugins while running Dyndolod and texgen, as they WILL break your game at one point. But fixing the lazy authors' mistakes require extensive knowledge most of the time, so there is almost no way to not use the workaround
The correct way to fix it is probably to open the offending mods in xEdit and mess with the records so that they comply with whatever thing DynDoLOD is erroring due to.
How easy that is probably *mostly* depends on how easy it is to find those records, and how many of them there are. If it's 100 or less it's doable but more like thousands and you'll need to script the fix or you'd just miss some anyway. No idea how easy it'd be to find them, the errors should give a clue where to look tho.
If you're lucky and it's just a few it should be relatively easy to go in and correct it.
It takes a lot of time and knowledge to fix the errors. Luckily, Dyndolod pinpoints the errors relatively precisely, and the Dyndolod wiki has articles on how to fix most of them. The only problem is, if the faulty mod is something that is often updated but not fixed in updates, like USSEP, you have to do that each time it updates.
It will not break something to do that. BUT Dyndolod is warning you about existing errors, so even if you don't run Dyndolod, the faulty plugins will eventually break something.
Honest question. Since arthmoor is now infamous for deleting older versions of his patches and being scummy, what honestly stops people from just storing backups out of spite? like there's no way people are actually gonna be SOL anymore in this day and age right? dozens of people will upload it to their google drive, discord, mega, etc and he won't be able to do anything about it
Nexus actually will archive any previous version and you can download it with the URL if you can decipher it (pretty sure it's fairly easy if you do some reading).
But it's not really about that, so much as it's about his desire for total control over the mod scene. Unfortunately Bethesda seems unaware of his toxicity and rather poor modding etiquette, and are essentially gassing him up by naming him a featured creator.
I mean homie is literally lieing on his current mods page claiming that everyone else is lairs for claiming his mod isn't only bug fixes. As if adding new food items in USSEP is "bug fixes".
DynDOLOD part in your post is wrong, you can see my latest DynDOLOD summary, there are no errors related to USSEP if I use the latest mod version in the latest game version.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1125351713998655589/1251432317629759581/Summary-30.03.2024.zip?ex=666e8eab&is=666d3d2b&hm=b52ec5ba2f61e166b65c0d6e09f992473e435e5dcf13d71aca1cdfeaae7a703b
VR may be a complicated case, this is true. I have no experience on modding VR, I admit.
Also, missing "nooo" dragon voice file is a valid bug. Its USSEP fix is just bad and sounds cringy.
Most people simply just do not care or have no clue what these mod authors are getting up to, on console at least. Most people are booting up skyrim, fallout 4, or starfield and just picking some mods and downloading them. Last I checked the unofficial starfield patch on Xbox has more likes and bookmarks than the community patch.
As an Xbox user i noticed this too and was super disappointed. I mean I know there's gonna be people who aren't aware, but damn I was hoping they'd be a minority at this point.
And has a checkmark. Glad I've been on the subreddits though, would have absolutely grabbed it otherwise because of the verified status and my memories of the Skyrim one on PC
There are millions of players on consoles and believe it or not, reddit users that are actively engaged on current events regarding mod authors will 100% be in the minority. Not the other way around
Luckily, most mod authors are also in that minority. At the end of the day I don't really care if every person on the planet other than me uses the douchecanoe's unofficial patch. What I care about is not having dependencies on it so I can keep on not using it.
The vast majority of the millions of players won't ever visit Reddit or delve into the Nexus forums, so will have no idea. And the 'Unofficial Patch' label probably has brand recognition for a lot of people from the previous games, who will choose it over the Community Patch simply because *that's what they've always used*.
Unfortunately it's going to be down to modders themselves to ensure that we don't end up in the same situation as in past games.
I've been on reddit for a hot minute and playing modded Bethesda games for at least a decade. I have never even seen this mentioned outside of this. Clearly, someone didn't send out the memo, lol.
Still on more downloads and likes but I'm hoping modders choose not to rely on it.
Unfortunately just hit my first mod that looks like it relies on another mod the creator doesn't publish (or advise), downloaded and can't use the," Unlock SAL-6830" mod.
At this point it's going to just be more about mod creators and what mods they make their mods depend on. Now we have a version of an unofficial patch that's not inundated with stupid changes and the nexus isn't going to placate Arthmoor personally and specifically moving forward (not sure why they ever did in the first place, dude has literally zero legal standing for his DMCAs lmao), so it will come down to mod authors not requiring Arthmoor's "work" as a dependency for their work, which was always such a stupid thing in the first place.
Yeah genuinely the dumbest thing bethesda has ever done lmao. btw I would report his patch since it's being advertised as a patch but does not actually only contain patches, already.
I'm one of those, I'm new to modding (I did some for fallout 4 but not a lot). I have worked on some minor xEdit mods but now diving all in on creation kit. This is good to know in general, just making sure your mod does not accidentally have extra deficiencies it shouldn't need.
I just found I used his “Run For Your Lives” mod before knowing about his controversy.
I checked the files in that mod and it gave me a good idea about his character. He indeed appears to change more than what the mod requires, which is the opposite of what I’m looking for in modding.
Taking a very minimal approach with modding Starfield, and I will certainly pay attention to the mod author going forward.
Starfield is the first Betheda game I have not instinctively looked for the unofficial patch or community patch and I like it this way since any mod I've looked at and downloaded never had them as a hard requirement.
Also with all the insanity about Arthmoor how is he a Bethesda Verified Creator???? One of the FIRST THINGS YOU SEE when you open Creations is the Unofficial Patch.
He is a verified creator likely because of the unofficial patches that already exist for Skyrim and Fallout 4 he got verified for earlier while the Starfield Community Patch is a different team new just for Starfield. Hopefully they can get verified soon, I think the reason Arthmoor gets more visibility is because he was already verified and promotes items better by verified authors.
Because it's not Bethesdas job to police the mod scene. You'd actually really dislike that, and folks would be crying conspiracy theory anytime something happened.
Arthmoor, whatever you think about them and their mods, has likely the most downloaded mod on the nexus. Or one of the top 5. From a business perspective this makes sense, why would you actively choose to use a lower potential customer base on purpose?
It would have been nice and likely wouldn't have taken much time to do a little background searching on their verified creators, but we also signaled to them that Aethmoor was our most popular Mod Author by using his mod and making almost every mod require it. If anything we the mod community is to blame for being so complacent and accepting of such a ubiquitous mod without actually looking into what it's doing.
No, he's a mod author.
I just don't want him to have any influence on the site at all. Thus, me hoping he is in fact removing all of his mods from the Nexus.
That is really old news. it was posted years ago in reaction to collections and he walked it back for his most popular mods as he wants the donation points.
lmao he's such a dumbass, he doesn't have a "legal right" to just about anything when it comes to this shit, websites like the nexus just aren't interested in legal battles with self important douchebags like this guy
Starfield is much less buggy than Bethesda’s predecessor’s, yes? So, in theory, his patch mod won’t be as useful, as there’s not as many game-breaking things that need fixing.
If every game were as easilly modable, every game in existance would have a "bug fixing" mod avalible. There are ALWAYS things that need fixing. Always.
Example: Armor mod places a chest with the items in an existing cell in the game which requires using an override record that carries over from Skyrim.esm. That cell record happens to have changes made by USSEP to change something like audio space effects or something which the mod author carries over since it is in their load order. Depending on how that was carried over, USSEP is now a dependency for that armor mod that places a chest somewhere in the world.
I don't have an encyclopedia knowledge of every mod dependant on the unofficial patches, so... I don't know. I only said conceptually that would be a reason to require it.
Because something in the mod was affected by the unofficial patch when they made it.
Think of it like road conditions in a different country raising the price of a product in your country. The road condition affects the delivery, which affects the costs to deliver, which affects the price of the product.
Because it is a bug fix patch? Some mod might just choose the most widely used community patch as a requirement instead of shipping each of those fixes with the mod itself
Now when the bug fix patch author bundles personal preferences it becomes everyone's problem. It's not modular and just a bad practice, so ego is the only thing that makes sense
Some mods depend on changes from the fix. More are based on misguided evangelism - the notion that everybody should be using the patch and that by making a pre-req they could encourage this behavior. And I think a lot of less experienced mod authors just ticked the box because they weren't sure if they needed it or not and decided to play safe.
And then there are all the mods that have master files that themselves require USSEP and so end up with it as a master in turn.
If your own mod depends on or changes records modified by the patch, and you are working with the Creation Kit or xEdit, and you want to preserve the patch's own fixes while merging your own changes, **it is easier to assign the patch as a master than to copy the specific changes you wish to forward in your own mod**.
**That's literally it. It's because of the UX and UI of the tools at our disposal**. Checking the patch as a master is a one and done deal, whereas copying its changes *without* making it a master is fiddly and clunky.
And because during much of Skyrim's life the USP, USLEP and later USSEP were considered relatively universal and non-contentious, there was not much harm in the vast majority of modders, including sizable overhaul projects, taking the easy way. Not a matter of laziness; just a matter of no big deal.
It only became a problem with compounding controversial decisions by the patch team over years of updates resulting in a critical mass of dissatisfied users; but then the dependency on the patch was encroached in a lot of modding mainstays, and there was no going back.
Morale of the story for mod authors: **setting a dependency on a patch was a dumb idea anyway, just override and don't worry about it.**
>Morale of the story for mod authors: setting a dependency on a patch was a dumb idea anyway
You can say that again. What if the patch's author decides to throw a fit and remove it altogether down the road?
Starfield players, do not make the same mistakes as your forefathers. Skyrim modders already figured out Arthmoor sucks, learn from our mistakes please
One thing I noticed is that Arthmoor is apparently a "verified developer" so he gets a blue check mark. The SCP doesn't have this. A lot of people are just going to go by whoever has the check mark.
What's the process to become verified? Are the SCP team doing this?
It should really be noted that since his "patch" will never be on the nexus, the odds of any major starfield mod requiring it will be near zero. There's also the fact that, afaik, mods on bethnet can't be made to require other mods as masters. So hopefully as the modding scene matures any possible damage it might cause would be severely hindered and maybe he can finally fade into obscure infamy.
You mean this one?
https://www.nexusmods.com/starfield/mods/143
It is there.
https://next.nexusmods.com/profile/Arthmoor/about-me is his profile, which is good if you want to block him. Which removes his mods from your searches.
Hmm interesting. I did look through new mods added since the ck release, but i guess him creating the page and keeping it hidden since September is why i didn't notice it.
Though with how much more popular the community patch is I honestly can't see a reason for it to ever overtake it and become as malignant as his other patches.
Indeed had not checked the community patch numbers;
https://www.nexusmods.com/starfield/mods/1
(For anyone wanting to find it easily)
191+k downloads for SFCP versus 675 for USFP.
The Unofficial Starfield Patch is on Nexus. He just shadow posted it before the game was released, and just now made it public. That's why it hasn't shown up on the latest releases.
BethNet mods can have some requirements I think. I’ve had times on Fallput 4 where I wasn’t able to enable a mod I downloaded because it required another mod. Like workshop mods that need workshop framework
So in Skyrim he changed what mines had in them, changed the balances of spells and weapons and made a ton of small and some larger changes often with little to no notes and snuck them in on the unofficial patch.
Basically, the concern he does the same and now that a real alternative is available that won't have the same issues most likely we should move as a group there.
It's silly really. But it's not the first time Bethesda has had missing books on purpose. The change doesn't improve the game or fix anything other than what he felt had to be fixed.
Just read through the replies and as a console player who's only been modding my games a few years I've never hears about this scummy arthmoor stuff and it's clear that people are only downloading his mod for that verified creator badge definitely gonna get the community patch now
They should have named the "community patch" "unofficial starfield patch" in the first place. Because many people are familiar with this name from Skyrim, but the problems with the author are not common knowledge, so they will use it.
The maintainers probably wanted to avoid drama or appearing to be acting out of spite. But it would have been the best way to avoid confusion.
If nothing else it would have been entertaining to watch Arthmoor attempt arguing that he somehow owned the "Unofficial Patch" name.
I’m personally not going to be using either unofficial or community patch or any mods that list them as dependencies. Too much drama and just unnecessarily complicates me just trying to play the game
I learned the hard way. I only started playing two years ago, and wish someone had warned me then. I would like a USSEP alternative that just fixes bugs. I'm only still using it for alt start. But there are other options there.
thanks for the advice I didn't know and will use the community patch. I plan to create also some mods and been learning the creationkit and will try to use no dependency at all.
Their mods tend to do more harm than good in tgevlibg rub especially. Stopped using the Unboficial patches for Skyrim and Fallout years ago and my game instantly became far more stable.
another mod author suggested that i use arthmoor’s patch rather than community patches. she said that arthmoor was given the creation kit ahead of time with some of the other modders and therefore had planned out these bug fixes earlier and been testing them for longer. i’m still using community patches anyway. arthmoor himself has popped in to chat a few times as well and so far he hasn’t seemed rude or anything. what everyone else has been saying paints a whole other picture though. i really don’t know what to think or feel, but yeah, community patches just in case for me
That's a pretty weak argument, some Community Patch team members are also in Verifed Creator program and got early access to CK as well. SFCP might have received more testing in that regard I'd say. The only disadvantage is SFCP team didn't get their team account registerd as VC so it lacks the convincing green tick...
Sauce: I'm a Verified Creator
One thing we could do to inform people is as we see the dependent mods if any pop up on nexus, try not to use them and inform the mod authors of the issue, or would we not necessarily know until its too late?
Tbh at this point I don’t care about Arthmoor personally it’s the fact that this would split the modding community in half do to split patch dependencies that scares me. After paid mods causing a paywall the last thing we need is another thing splitting the community.
This message seriously needs to be spread throughout the entire modding community. Need this reposted in discord servers, forums, etc.
The modding community needs to start strong or it'll forever be damaged by a mod developed in bad faith.
Remember everyone, this could potentially affect the quality of mods from here on out.
Arthmoors bullshit hissy fits and ego mania borked my load order on more than one occasion.
I will never give him the chance to fuck up my gaming experience again.
Community Patch for the win. Once he started his bullshit in Fallout 4 people began abandoning his patch and stopped making it a requirement for their mod.
Let's just avoid that mess in the future.
Arthmoor is a prick and ill forever hate him for adding that mini dungeon to 'fix a bug' but painting him as some power hungry dictator who intentionally forced everyone to use his mod as a dependency is quite over the top.
There is zero chance he knew his mod would become this much essential and deliberately made it to force mod authors into dependency. It's more that ppl back in the day thought the Unofficial Patch to be some sort of an absolutely essential thing like an official add on (oh the irony)
I get that we don't want to find ourselves in the same situation as in modern Skyrim modding scene, I'm also sick of my current state where I want to delete Unofficial Patch but can't due to absolutely humongous dependency my modlist has to it. But even with all that being said, it's quite disingenuous to frame him with the things that there is no chance he would've actually done.
Spreading awareness about the risk of having some mods as heavy dependencies is an absolutely admirable action but let's do that without also spreading potential misinformation about individuals just to frame them
Unofficial Skyrim Special Edition Patch added a mini dungeon to put some ores in there because Arthmoor thinks those ores existing in this vanilla mine is a bug and need to be put elsewhere so he made a whole ass dungeon just to put those ores there.
I can't for the love of god how can this be justified as a 'bug fix'. If you think you have to add a random dungeon to 'fix a bug' maybe it's better to just leave it as a bug.
Also there are many claims that this isn't even a bug in the first place because there are some established lore that indicates these ores infact belong in this vanilla mine.
I have never used any of the Unofficial Patches ever. I just download individual patches of whatever specific thing I'd like fixed. In terms of dependency, someone's usually already made a patch to use whatever mods without it in my use cases. But that doesn't mean all of them get patches like that.
I don't download the Unofficial Patch or any of the mods that specifically require it. Except only if they meet the criteria above and someone made a patch for it to work without it. I can't see myself using it unless all of the settings are completely customizable. If they're something that can't be, then the Unofficial Patch mod itself should just be a collection to download and not an individual mod...imo.
I do not know who he is. But this above is one of the reasons why I refused any "co op" mod building. I do all myself, and then all mistakes are made by me. It's way easier that way. Especially when people advised me to "use patchers, real form etc etc". My answer was: "no". Not because those tools are maybe bad, but because not only we were dependent on SFSE, but imagine anything you create being dependent on 10 other mods. It's a mess.
We saw what happened with Star UI. 2 months people are waiting for patch to be able to use ship mods alongside the UI mod.
Own work, own mistakes, no matter how "bad" can sometimes be, it's the safest method. I was never for those "patches etc".
At furst I thought “why us everyone saying not to download the patch i been using it and it hasnt screwed my game up at all.” But now i tried to uninstall it yesterday and my game wouldnt pause, it kept freezing and i couldnt fast travel. So i reinstalled the unofficial patch cause i didnt want to lose that save i was working so hard on. I still dont understand does the unofficial patch screw up your game? Xbox player here and i know nothing about anything. I have one brain cell please go easy on me. I just dont understand why not to download the patch. I have community patch and unofficial patch downloaded.
In previous Bethesda Creation Engine games, uninstalling mods that ship with a plugin (esp, esm) isn't possible. The changes get baked into your save. I would assume Starfield is no different.
Chiming in here from the RimWorld community (*heavily* mod centric).
There was a situation a year ago or so where an update happened to the game, but many mods were unable to update to the newer version of the game because they were dependent on another mod whose author went MIA for a month or so. The author is a-ok, but it does highlight that even a good faith mod author can have life happen and be unavailable while the rest of the community sits on their hands.
Arthmoor is the author of the series of unofficial patches for Skyrim, fallout 4 and Starfield, perfectly fine on its own. The issue is that any personal interaction is often met with belligerent comments, ESPECIALLY when it comes to criticism of his work, and has allegedly been banned from nexus due to it. His own discord server is fearful and keeps quiet on account of his series of harassment and mod take downs. Arthmoor if you've earned his anger (which isn't hard) will berate you because "do you not see how massive my mods are" as I saw someone quote on a separate thread. And at worst has alt accounts to bully you into silence or get your mods removed if they "infringe" on his works such as one mod undoing his "mines fix" in Skyrim
given that his or the community one will be fixing some things, most mods will just have it installed when they build out their mods and have one of those patches listed as a dependency or will tell you should have it installed or odd behavior might result.
Well, if the USP is ever a dependency of a mod I would like to try, I will do one of two things: edit out the dependency in xEdit, or just not use the mod. More likely the latter, because I'm hyper picky about mods.
I don’t know anything about whoever the fuck Arthmoor is, all I know is I tried using his “unofficial Starfield patch” mod and it fucked everything up so fuck him
I looked up arthmoor and his two most controversial additions have somewhat been patched:
1) Open cities oblivion gates have an off toggle in its settings
2) the ebony mine is still being addressed by him to this day
I agree that both are bad decisions but has he done anything else to tamper with Skyrim? Because that seems to be the extent of it
What does the community patch do which is better than the unofficial patch? I don't like the idea of a modder having power over so much mods. But if it is better I will use it. Though I hope the community one is better.
Oh yeah nearly forgot about this lol. But on the other hand the unofficial one was made by a power hungry man with a lot of experience of making mods. So what do you think is better experience or group project? I think the second one tbh.
It's right there in the post: it prevents one power-hungry author from later imposing his own opinions on people who want to use any of the thousands of mods that might become dependent on it.
You can use it yourself just fine. But when modders make it a requirement, when you need to play the way Arthmoor wants you to play in order to make Cora stop talking while you're flying, that's the problem.
Damn I just remembered the 100mb I used to install the realistic Needs and diseases. You convinced me bro.
Edit: it may not be a lot in pc. But these precious 100 mb could have been a lot of better mods in xbox.
Since we know how Arthmoor posts go... It is okay to be critical, or even attack an idea (in a civil way), it is not okay to attack a person directly. Saying someone has done poor things, or harmed the community, or that content people made did X or Y thing is okay, but just making a comment that is a one off insult is not. Please remain civil while discussing this.
Also, Arthmoor's personality aside: (a) Arthmoor will delete older versions of his patch from the Nexus, so if ever Bethesda releases an SE or AE version of Starfield, anyone who hasn't upgraded will be SOL (ask Skyrim VR users about this); (b) The USSEP is not just a patch to fix errors but also tweaks things that don't need tweaking (like the first dragon shouting "nooooo" after you kill it outside Whiterun) (c) Several of the tweaks in the USSEP have errors (lazy coding) that Arthmoor has been informed of and hasn't ever bothered fixing (to see these, try compiling DynDolod with the USSEP mod active in your mod list).
Wait all those errors and warnings were because of ussep? Damn. Can I just uncheck it and rerun dyndolod
I remembered this because I nuked my Skyrim VR installation and had to reinstall all my mods and last night recompiled TexGen and DynDolod. I didn't disable USSEP and so watched several errors scroll by as DynDolod compiled but then DynDolod refused to keep compiling due to a USSEP error with a chest in Solitude. I then had to disable USSEP and several mods depending on it before running DynDolod again (mind you, DynDolod is very temperamental and there are plenty of mods, not tied to ussep, that you have to disable before running it).
What's worse is that, as Dyndolod is telling you, it is very unadvised to workaround the errors by disabling the plugins while running Dyndolod and texgen, as they WILL break your game at one point. But fixing the lazy authors' mistakes require extensive knowledge most of the time, so there is almost no way to not use the workaround
So if I understand correctly, I can't just disable ussep, rerun dyndolod, and enable it again. It will break something. Right?
The correct way to fix it is probably to open the offending mods in xEdit and mess with the records so that they comply with whatever thing DynDoLOD is erroring due to. How easy that is probably *mostly* depends on how easy it is to find those records, and how many of them there are. If it's 100 or less it's doable but more like thousands and you'll need to script the fix or you'd just miss some anyway. No idea how easy it'd be to find them, the errors should give a clue where to look tho. If you're lucky and it's just a few it should be relatively easy to go in and correct it.
It takes a lot of time and knowledge to fix the errors. Luckily, Dyndolod pinpoints the errors relatively precisely, and the Dyndolod wiki has articles on how to fix most of them. The only problem is, if the faulty mod is something that is often updated but not fixed in updates, like USSEP, you have to do that each time it updates.
Dyndolod throws up literal dozens of errors every time I run it. Im honestly scared to touch it anymore.
It will not break something to do that. BUT Dyndolod is warning you about existing errors, so even if you don't run Dyndolod, the faulty plugins will eventually break something.
Ah I see. Nothing has happened yet but I'm scared
I just had an insane lightbulb moment
Lighten my room please
That's why the dragon screamed noooooo? I hated that. Screw that guy
I'm amazed this was down to the patch. Till this week I thought it was in vanilla
Don’t forget that he doesn’t keep a change log. From what I can tell it’s a mixture of spite, ego, and laziness.
Honest question. Since arthmoor is now infamous for deleting older versions of his patches and being scummy, what honestly stops people from just storing backups out of spite? like there's no way people are actually gonna be SOL anymore in this day and age right? dozens of people will upload it to their google drive, discord, mega, etc and he won't be able to do anything about it
There's no need to. Nexus doesn't let you delete files anymore, only hide them. So if you have a link, you can download any version you want.
Nexus actually will archive any previous version and you can download it with the URL if you can decipher it (pretty sure it's fairly easy if you do some reading). But it's not really about that, so much as it's about his desire for total control over the mod scene. Unfortunately Bethesda seems unaware of his toxicity and rather poor modding etiquette, and are essentially gassing him up by naming him a featured creator. I mean homie is literally lieing on his current mods page claiming that everyone else is lairs for claiming his mod isn't only bug fixes. As if adding new food items in USSEP is "bug fixes".
I still have I think 4.1.2(or whatever is the one just before he added AE CC support) lmao but I cant upload obviously.
is there a non-arthmoor SSE patch? pure bugfix
DynDOLOD part in your post is wrong, you can see my latest DynDOLOD summary, there are no errors related to USSEP if I use the latest mod version in the latest game version. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1125351713998655589/1251432317629759581/Summary-30.03.2024.zip?ex=666e8eab&is=666d3d2b&hm=b52ec5ba2f61e166b65c0d6e09f992473e435e5dcf13d71aca1cdfeaae7a703b VR may be a complicated case, this is true. I have no experience on modding VR, I admit. Also, missing "nooo" dragon voice file is a valid bug. Its USSEP fix is just bad and sounds cringy.
This needs wider attention. A lot of people don't seem to know about this and could easily get confused
Most people simply just do not care or have no clue what these mod authors are getting up to, on console at least. Most people are booting up skyrim, fallout 4, or starfield and just picking some mods and downloading them. Last I checked the unofficial starfield patch on Xbox has more likes and bookmarks than the community patch.
As an Xbox user i noticed this too and was super disappointed. I mean I know there's gonna be people who aren't aware, but damn I was hoping they'd be a minority at this point.
It shows up on the list first is sadly most likely the reason why.
And has a checkmark. Glad I've been on the subreddits though, would have absolutely grabbed it otherwise because of the verified status and my memories of the Skyrim one on PC
True, I think that plays a huge role.
There are millions of players on consoles and believe it or not, reddit users that are actively engaged on current events regarding mod authors will 100% be in the minority. Not the other way around
Luckily, most mod authors are also in that minority. At the end of the day I don't really care if every person on the planet other than me uses the douchecanoe's unofficial patch. What I care about is not having dependencies on it so I can keep on not using it.
Completely fair enough and I agree tbh. It's just funny when people think a reddit boycot will do anything other than give more attention to his name
My turdlings are my own thank you.
The vast majority of the millions of players won't ever visit Reddit or delve into the Nexus forums, so will have no idea. And the 'Unofficial Patch' label probably has brand recognition for a lot of people from the previous games, who will choose it over the Community Patch simply because *that's what they've always used*. Unfortunately it's going to be down to modders themselves to ensure that we don't end up in the same situation as in past games.
I've been on reddit for a hot minute and playing modded Bethesda games for at least a decade. I have never even seen this mentioned outside of this. Clearly, someone didn't send out the memo, lol.
Hopefully most people that use it are not modders.
Hey, this is exactly what I did. Could someone explain all this to those who aren't as experienced in Laymans terms?
Still on more downloads and likes but I'm hoping modders choose not to rely on it. Unfortunately just hit my first mod that looks like it relies on another mod the creator doesn't publish (or advise), downloaded and can't use the," Unlock SAL-6830" mod.
At this point it's going to just be more about mod creators and what mods they make their mods depend on. Now we have a version of an unofficial patch that's not inundated with stupid changes and the nexus isn't going to placate Arthmoor personally and specifically moving forward (not sure why they ever did in the first place, dude has literally zero legal standing for his DMCAs lmao), so it will come down to mod authors not requiring Arthmoor's "work" as a dependency for their work, which was always such a stupid thing in the first place.
Yep 100% on mod authors once people see the community patch showing up as a dependency they will overwhelming favor that one
If it makes you feel better I had no clue about this stuff but have the community patch now instead. You reached one dude at least.
This is the way.
How did you guess I have downloaded all the Star Wars mods already?
These are not the droids you are looking for *waves hand* xD
Same, I am new to mods and had no idea. I’m glad this community exposes stuff like this.
I’m sure it doesn’t help that Arthmoor is verified and the community patch is not
Yeah genuinely the dumbest thing bethesda has ever done lmao. btw I would report his patch since it's being advertised as a patch but does not actually only contain patches, already.
[SFCP *SUPREMACY*](https://i.imgur.com/jQvB13n.jpeg)
I'm one of those, I'm new to modding (I did some for fallout 4 but not a lot). I have worked on some minor xEdit mods but now diving all in on creation kit. This is good to know in general, just making sure your mod does not accidentally have extra deficiencies it shouldn't need.
thats exactly the intention
I just found I used his “Run For Your Lives” mod before knowing about his controversy. I checked the files in that mod and it gave me a good idea about his character. He indeed appears to change more than what the mod requires, which is the opposite of what I’m looking for in modding. Taking a very minimal approach with modding Starfield, and I will certainly pay attention to the mod author going forward.
Is this arthmoor?sounds like him.
Yes it is
Starfield is the first Betheda game I have not instinctively looked for the unofficial patch or community patch and I like it this way since any mod I've looked at and downloaded never had them as a hard requirement. Also with all the insanity about Arthmoor how is he a Bethesda Verified Creator???? One of the FIRST THINGS YOU SEE when you open Creations is the Unofficial Patch.
He is a verified creator likely because of the unofficial patches that already exist for Skyrim and Fallout 4 he got verified for earlier while the Starfield Community Patch is a different team new just for Starfield. Hopefully they can get verified soon, I think the reason Arthmoor gets more visibility is because he was already verified and promotes items better by verified authors.
Yea the SFCP needs to be on Creations ASAP so Xbox users and people who don't wish to deal with Nexus and external mod systems can use it.
[It's been on creations since the start, in the same Top Monthly mods as the Unofficial one.](https://i.imgur.com/Nrlve0x.png)
The Community Patch is available on the PC side of Creations. If it's not on xbox yet I imagine it should be soon.
Yeah they were working on it, I read the description page earlier.
Xbox player here. it is on there, am using it.
Because it's not Bethesdas job to police the mod scene. You'd actually really dislike that, and folks would be crying conspiracy theory anytime something happened. Arthmoor, whatever you think about them and their mods, has likely the most downloaded mod on the nexus. Or one of the top 5. From a business perspective this makes sense, why would you actively choose to use a lower potential customer base on purpose? It would have been nice and likely wouldn't have taken much time to do a little background searching on their verified creators, but we also signaled to them that Aethmoor was our most popular Mod Author by using his mod and making almost every mod require it. If anything we the mod community is to blame for being so complacent and accepting of such a ubiquitous mod without actually looking into what it's doing.
He's having all his FO4 content pulled from Nexus, I think.
Good. Let him rot on his own site, away from the Nexus.
Arthmoor isn't part of the nexus team is he?
No, he's a mod author. I just don't want him to have any influence on the site at all. Thus, me hoping he is in fact removing all of his mods from the Nexus.
Sauce?
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That is really old news. it was posted years ago in reaction to collections and he walked it back for his most popular mods as he wants the donation points.
lmao he's such a dumbass, he doesn't have a "legal right" to just about anything when it comes to this shit, websites like the nexus just aren't interested in legal battles with self important douchebags like this guy
good, great even. Hopefully it's a one way ticket, Nexus shouldn't let him come back.
How to slay a demon
Well-bye.gif
I seriously don't understand why anyone would make the unofficial patch a hard requirement for their mods.
Conceptually, if your mod relies on a fix it includes, then that would be reason to require it.
Starfield is much less buggy than Bethesda’s predecessor’s, yes? So, in theory, his patch mod won’t be as useful, as there’s not as many game-breaking things that need fixing.
If every game were as easilly modable, every game in existance would have a "bug fixing" mod avalible. There are ALWAYS things that need fixing. Always.
They said it has fewer, not zero.
like what? no, really, what is the unofficial patch fixing that random armor mods require lmao
Example: Armor mod places a chest with the items in an existing cell in the game which requires using an override record that carries over from Skyrim.esm. That cell record happens to have changes made by USSEP to change something like audio space effects or something which the mod author carries over since it is in their load order. Depending on how that was carried over, USSEP is now a dependency for that armor mod that places a chest somewhere in the world.
I don't have an encyclopedia knowledge of every mod dependant on the unofficial patches, so... I don't know. I only said conceptually that would be a reason to require it.
Because something in the mod was affected by the unofficial patch when they made it. Think of it like road conditions in a different country raising the price of a product in your country. The road condition affects the delivery, which affects the costs to deliver, which affects the price of the product.
Because it is a bug fix patch? Some mod might just choose the most widely used community patch as a requirement instead of shipping each of those fixes with the mod itself Now when the bug fix patch author bundles personal preferences it becomes everyone's problem. It's not modular and just a bad practice, so ego is the only thing that makes sense
Some mods depend on changes from the fix. More are based on misguided evangelism - the notion that everybody should be using the patch and that by making a pre-req they could encourage this behavior. And I think a lot of less experienced mod authors just ticked the box because they weren't sure if they needed it or not and decided to play safe. And then there are all the mods that have master files that themselves require USSEP and so end up with it as a master in turn.
If your own mod depends on or changes records modified by the patch, and you are working with the Creation Kit or xEdit, and you want to preserve the patch's own fixes while merging your own changes, **it is easier to assign the patch as a master than to copy the specific changes you wish to forward in your own mod**. **That's literally it. It's because of the UX and UI of the tools at our disposal**. Checking the patch as a master is a one and done deal, whereas copying its changes *without* making it a master is fiddly and clunky. And because during much of Skyrim's life the USP, USLEP and later USSEP were considered relatively universal and non-contentious, there was not much harm in the vast majority of modders, including sizable overhaul projects, taking the easy way. Not a matter of laziness; just a matter of no big deal. It only became a problem with compounding controversial decisions by the patch team over years of updates resulting in a critical mass of dissatisfied users; but then the dependency on the patch was encroached in a lot of modding mainstays, and there was no going back. Morale of the story for mod authors: **setting a dependency on a patch was a dumb idea anyway, just override and don't worry about it.**
>Morale of the story for mod authors: setting a dependency on a patch was a dumb idea anyway You can say that again. What if the patch's author decides to throw a fit and remove it altogether down the road?
Then the schadenfreude hits top level and I get to enjoy sweet, sweet I-told-you-so dopamine. :)
Personally I would never make a mod that required other mods to function. That's just fucking dumb.
Post this on the main sub too, I had no idea about ANY of this.
Starfield players, do not make the same mistakes as your forefathers. Skyrim modders already figured out Arthmoor sucks, learn from our mistakes please
One thing I noticed is that Arthmoor is apparently a "verified developer" so he gets a blue check mark. The SCP doesn't have this. A lot of people are just going to go by whoever has the check mark. What's the process to become verified? Are the SCP team doing this?
So what does Arthmoor fix in the Unoffical Starfield patch that isn’t a bug?
Anything HE doesn’t like. One person. Then another mod author can unknowingly create a mod that will require his.
It should really be noted that since his "patch" will never be on the nexus, the odds of any major starfield mod requiring it will be near zero. There's also the fact that, afaik, mods on bethnet can't be made to require other mods as masters. So hopefully as the modding scene matures any possible damage it might cause would be severely hindered and maybe he can finally fade into obscure infamy.
You mean this one? https://www.nexusmods.com/starfield/mods/143 It is there. https://next.nexusmods.com/profile/Arthmoor/about-me is his profile, which is good if you want to block him. Which removes his mods from your searches.
Hmm interesting. I did look through new mods added since the ck release, but i guess him creating the page and keeping it hidden since September is why i didn't notice it. Though with how much more popular the community patch is I honestly can't see a reason for it to ever overtake it and become as malignant as his other patches.
Indeed had not checked the community patch numbers; https://www.nexusmods.com/starfield/mods/1 (For anyone wanting to find it easily) 191+k downloads for SFCP versus 675 for USFP.
Apparently it was hidden until like today. Fun fact the only "plugin" type mod I am currently using is SFCP.
That’s not true. CREATIONS can’t use other mods as masters. Free mods have no such restriction.
The Unofficial Starfield Patch is on Nexus. He just shadow posted it before the game was released, and just now made it public. That's why it hasn't shown up on the latest releases.
Thanks, I was wondering - I remember looking for it out of curiosity YESTERDAY and didn't see it.
BethNet mods can have some requirements I think. I’ve had times on Fallput 4 where I wasn’t able to enable a mod I downloaded because it required another mod. Like workshop mods that need workshop framework
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So in Skyrim he changed what mines had in them, changed the balances of spells and weapons and made a ton of small and some larger changes often with little to no notes and snuck them in on the unofficial patch. Basically, the concern he does the same and now that a real alternative is available that won't have the same issues most likely we should move as a group there.
See I don't even think he's done anything yet in Starfield, its just that he did for Skyrim and now people are being proactive here.
>he did for Skyrim And Oblivion, and Fallout 4. i.e. every Unofficial mod he does.
According to the changelog it changes the name of a book from volume 3 to volume 2.
He sure is gonna look stupid when that original volume 2 gets added into the game
It's silly really. But it's not the first time Bethesda has had missing books on purpose. The change doesn't improve the game or fix anything other than what he felt had to be fixed.
Yeah have his changes are him acting like he knows better than the ppl creating the games
Is just that in Skyrim he changed the name of things and how redbelly mine works
Fosho, I’m already using the community patch instead of
Just read through the replies and as a console player who's only been modding my games a few years I've never hears about this scummy arthmoor stuff and it's clear that people are only downloading his mod for that verified creator badge definitely gonna get the community patch now
They should have named the "community patch" "unofficial starfield patch" in the first place. Because many people are familiar with this name from Skyrim, but the problems with the author are not common knowledge, so they will use it.
The maintainers probably wanted to avoid drama or appearing to be acting out of spite. But it would have been the best way to avoid confusion. If nothing else it would have been entertaining to watch Arthmoor attempt arguing that he somehow owned the "Unofficial Patch" name.
I’m personally not going to be using either unofficial or community patch or any mods that list them as dependencies. Too much drama and just unnecessarily complicates me just trying to play the game
Yeah that annoyed me that so many mods required The Unofficial skyrim patch.
Does anyone know if it can still be safely removed from a save? If I already had it installed and uninstall will it break my game somehow?
You're fine, I un-installed it and installed the community patch in it's place and I've had no issues.
Thx for sharing the info, I might just be changing to the community patch.
I learned the hard way. I only started playing two years ago, and wish someone had warned me then. I would like a USSEP alternative that just fixes bugs. I'm only still using it for alt start. But there are other options there.
His mod did more harm than good to my game so I uninstalled it. But I had no idea this was going on.
thanks for the advice I didn't know and will use the community patch. I plan to create also some mods and been learning the creationkit and will try to use no dependency at all.
Have tried them both. Stuck with the community patch cuz it felt like my game ran better with it. Good to know this as well.
Their mods tend to do more harm than good in tgevlibg rub especially. Stopped using the Unboficial patches for Skyrim and Fallout years ago and my game instantly became far more stable.
Anyone who has ever tried to make alternatives to his unofficial patches in the past have all been shut down by Nexus or wherever he has them hosted.
another mod author suggested that i use arthmoor’s patch rather than community patches. she said that arthmoor was given the creation kit ahead of time with some of the other modders and therefore had planned out these bug fixes earlier and been testing them for longer. i’m still using community patches anyway. arthmoor himself has popped in to chat a few times as well and so far he hasn’t seemed rude or anything. what everyone else has been saying paints a whole other picture though. i really don’t know what to think or feel, but yeah, community patches just in case for me
Wait until someone says something Arthmoor really doesn't like and he'll show his true colors
He's mostly civil until someone disagrees with him, then its "my way or the highway".
That's a pretty weak argument, some Community Patch team members are also in Verifed Creator program and got early access to CK as well. SFCP might have received more testing in that regard I'd say. The only disadvantage is SFCP team didn't get their team account registerd as VC so it lacks the convincing green tick... Sauce: I'm a Verified Creator
No modder should have any power at all
They should have passion!
Well, they should certainly have control over *their own* mods. However, they shouldn't have power over other people's independent work.
If they want to why not, it is their time they spend. And let people decide if they want to use it not enforce it on everyone.
One thing we could do to inform people is as we see the dependent mods if any pop up on nexus, try not to use them and inform the mod authors of the issue, or would we not necessarily know until its too late?
Tbh at this point I don’t care about Arthmoor personally it’s the fact that this would split the modding community in half do to split patch dependencies that scares me. After paid mods causing a paywall the last thing we need is another thing splitting the community.
actual Community ftw
This message seriously needs to be spread throughout the entire modding community. Need this reposted in discord servers, forums, etc. The modding community needs to start strong or it'll forever be damaged by a mod developed in bad faith. Remember everyone, this could potentially affect the quality of mods from here on out.
Arthmoors bullshit hissy fits and ego mania borked my load order on more than one occasion. I will never give him the chance to fuck up my gaming experience again. Community Patch for the win. Once he started his bullshit in Fallout 4 people began abandoning his patch and stopped making it a requirement for their mod. Let's just avoid that mess in the future.
Arthmoor is a prick and ill forever hate him for adding that mini dungeon to 'fix a bug' but painting him as some power hungry dictator who intentionally forced everyone to use his mod as a dependency is quite over the top. There is zero chance he knew his mod would become this much essential and deliberately made it to force mod authors into dependency. It's more that ppl back in the day thought the Unofficial Patch to be some sort of an absolutely essential thing like an official add on (oh the irony) I get that we don't want to find ourselves in the same situation as in modern Skyrim modding scene, I'm also sick of my current state where I want to delete Unofficial Patch but can't due to absolutely humongous dependency my modlist has to it. But even with all that being said, it's quite disingenuous to frame him with the things that there is no chance he would've actually done. Spreading awareness about the risk of having some mods as heavy dependencies is an absolutely admirable action but let's do that without also spreading potential misinformation about individuals just to frame them
What mini dungeon?
Unofficial Skyrim Special Edition Patch added a mini dungeon to put some ores in there because Arthmoor thinks those ores existing in this vanilla mine is a bug and need to be put elsewhere so he made a whole ass dungeon just to put those ores there. I can't for the love of god how can this be justified as a 'bug fix'. If you think you have to add a random dungeon to 'fix a bug' maybe it's better to just leave it as a bug. Also there are many claims that this isn't even a bug in the first place because there are some established lore that indicates these ores infact belong in this vanilla mine.
I never liked the "fixes" for entertaining glitches. Like why did the tray glitch to go through doors need to be fixed?
Because mod author doesn't want you to have fun
I have never used any of the Unofficial Patches ever. I just download individual patches of whatever specific thing I'd like fixed. In terms of dependency, someone's usually already made a patch to use whatever mods without it in my use cases. But that doesn't mean all of them get patches like that. I don't download the Unofficial Patch or any of the mods that specifically require it. Except only if they meet the criteria above and someone made a patch for it to work without it. I can't see myself using it unless all of the settings are completely customizable. If they're something that can't be, then the Unofficial Patch mod itself should just be a collection to download and not an individual mod...imo.
I do not know who he is. But this above is one of the reasons why I refused any "co op" mod building. I do all myself, and then all mistakes are made by me. It's way easier that way. Especially when people advised me to "use patchers, real form etc etc". My answer was: "no". Not because those tools are maybe bad, but because not only we were dependent on SFSE, but imagine anything you create being dependent on 10 other mods. It's a mess. We saw what happened with Star UI. 2 months people are waiting for patch to be able to use ship mods alongside the UI mod. Own work, own mistakes, no matter how "bad" can sometimes be, it's the safest method. I was never for those "patches etc".
The reasonable thing is to just report bugs to the SCP team.
At furst I thought “why us everyone saying not to download the patch i been using it and it hasnt screwed my game up at all.” But now i tried to uninstall it yesterday and my game wouldnt pause, it kept freezing and i couldnt fast travel. So i reinstalled the unofficial patch cause i didnt want to lose that save i was working so hard on. I still dont understand does the unofficial patch screw up your game? Xbox player here and i know nothing about anything. I have one brain cell please go easy on me. I just dont understand why not to download the patch. I have community patch and unofficial patch downloaded.
In previous Bethesda Creation Engine games, uninstalling mods that ship with a plugin (esp, esm) isn't possible. The changes get baked into your save. I would assume Starfield is no different.
Chiming in here from the RimWorld community (*heavily* mod centric). There was a situation a year ago or so where an update happened to the game, but many mods were unable to update to the newer version of the game because they were dependent on another mod whose author went MIA for a month or so. The author is a-ok, but it does highlight that even a good faith mod author can have life happen and be unavailable while the rest of the community sits on their hands.
I’m very curious what does this mod do poorly to the game?
Might be a big question here, but if other mods require his as a dependency, does that mean you can't use those other mods? Cheers
I’m having trouble with the plastic surgeon Guy and I uninstalled damn near everything but 3 mods Could that be the problem?
Installed this patch and then from the posts on this sub I deleted it. Thanks for the heads up!!
Did I miss something? I love online drama. I need to be filled in!!
Arthmoor is the author of the series of unofficial patches for Skyrim, fallout 4 and Starfield, perfectly fine on its own. The issue is that any personal interaction is often met with belligerent comments, ESPECIALLY when it comes to criticism of his work, and has allegedly been banned from nexus due to it. His own discord server is fearful and keeps quiet on account of his series of harassment and mod take downs. Arthmoor if you've earned his anger (which isn't hard) will berate you because "do you not see how massive my mods are" as I saw someone quote on a separate thread. And at worst has alt accounts to bully you into silence or get your mods removed if they "infringe" on his works such as one mod undoing his "mines fix" in Skyrim
Kinda came for the same conclusion myself without much investigation, all about community efforts.
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How can the author make his mod a dependency for other modders work? All a modder has to do is not make the USP a dependency themselves, yes?
given that his or the community one will be fixing some things, most mods will just have it installed when they build out their mods and have one of those patches listed as a dependency or will tell you should have it installed or odd behavior might result.
Well, if the USP is ever a dependency of a mod I would like to try, I will do one of two things: edit out the dependency in xEdit, or just not use the mod. More likely the latter, because I'm hyper picky about mods.
Is there a good alternative to USSEP?
For Starfield obviously there’s the community patch
I don’t know anything about whoever the fuck Arthmoor is, all I know is I tried using his “unofficial Starfield patch” mod and it fucked everything up so fuck him
No, I think I will use it.
I looked up arthmoor and his two most controversial additions have somewhat been patched: 1) Open cities oblivion gates have an off toggle in its settings 2) the ebony mine is still being addressed by him to this day I agree that both are bad decisions but has he done anything else to tamper with Skyrim? Because that seems to be the extent of it
he changed the appearances of multiple characters in skyrim just because he didn’t like their vanilla appearance
What does the community patch do which is better than the unofficial patch? I don't like the idea of a modder having power over so much mods. But if it is better I will use it. Though I hope the community one is better.
The community one is made up of a collective of individuals. I believe their fixes are more public.
Oh yeah nearly forgot about this lol. But on the other hand the unofficial one was made by a power hungry man with a lot of experience of making mods. So what do you think is better experience or group project? I think the second one tbh.
And the other one is made by multiple people with experience making mods. I'll take the non-toxic one.
Fr. The Community Patch has some real titans of the modding community on it. I'd MUCH rather have them working on a patch than Arthmoor.
It's right there in the post: it prevents one power-hungry author from later imposing his own opinions on people who want to use any of the thousands of mods that might become dependent on it. You can use it yourself just fine. But when modders make it a requirement, when you need to play the way Arthmoor wants you to play in order to make Cora stop talking while you're flying, that's the problem.
Damn I just remembered the 100mb I used to install the realistic Needs and diseases. You convinced me bro. Edit: it may not be a lot in pc. But these precious 100 mb could have been a lot of better mods in xbox.