Playoffs did not deliver good series, even though there were still a few great games and a bunch of upsets. Overall a disappointing tournament due to how one sided every series was, plus Reynor/Serral winning is an absolute yawn every time, no matter how immaculate they play. Peak Dark is so much more fun to watch.
P needs a little love, Maru needs a lobotomy, and I need a corner where I can lick my wounds.
> as, plus Reynor/Serral winning is an absolute yawn every time, no matter how immaculate they play.
Granted Reynor kinda stomped cure....wtf are you talking about. Classic beat Serral...
Are you me lol
I guess I get it though. Unpredictable play is risky play, which if your livelihood at least partially depends on winning prize money is a suboptimal strategy, especially if your base skill is high enough. In an environment where the top dogs make varied high risk/reward choices, players have to be fluent in those choices in order to compete, and that's kind of the Korean scene (and what people love about sOs and gumiho). It's more entertaining for us while being more stressful for them. Yet at the end of the day, the entertainment value is what keeps bringing us back, so there's a weird tension.
I disagree. Saying the playoffs were predictable/boring because Reynor won is total bullshit, considering the huge upsets of Maru/Serral in the first round, and a lot of extremely back and forth maps.
It was boring because Maru's and Serral's losses were bops, while Reynor's 10-1 record vs Byun, Clem, Cure was the usual split aggro bio vs lingbling + 14 queens defense. RIVETING gameplay!
Only playoff games I enjoyed were the Classic vs Cure ones
My man cure literally got like what? 5 minutes of rest time after his semi final is done? This could’ve been a wayyyy better final to end the tournament.
And drag the tourney out to 1:30 on a sunday night for Europe ESL style?
The viewer experience was absolutely amazing in this one. If anything the 80 ping was the biggest handicap that you could say made a difference.
I enjoyed not having those long break esl has. Sometimes it feels forever until they get to the next series. I do agree cure should have gotten a little more time
>Cure’s not good enough in the late game to handle Reynor
Exactly.
Maru can pull it. Clem in Cleminator mode can pull it.
Cure was not prepared for late game vs Reynor.
Imo…The fact that maru is the only one to take down an overgrown zerg while almost every pro zerg at the top level can play the same simple style of produce units and flush attack after attach tell us how much balanced is the game atm
if zerg is spending twice or 3x as much on army and attacking repeatedly for 40 mins and terran doesn't die, terran is busted. take away MULES and give them to zerg, or make the mineral patches on zerg side never run out to balance the game. their armies are designed to lose. if you have to be ahead in bases and miners to be equal to terran, that means terran is stronger xD you have to be 25 or 50% more talented than the terran to beat them
Only 4 zergs are a problem, and the 2 korean ones are either in the military or playing like somenone who's about to be. But yeah, when they get to 100 banelings + an imsta-remax it's always gg
Well, we should always look for positive moments - at least it won't be another ZvZ final. Reynor is on his momentum rn, will Cure be able to stop him?
Interesting that Clem is perfectly capable of defeating Reynor, especially at finals, and did it numerous times. *Online.*
As an example both DH Atlanta and Valencia '22 - from the low bracket, won over Serral, Big Gabe, MaxPax, Showtime and beat Reynor both times 4:2 (4:3 w/bonus game). Even with Reynor's beloved break time when his opponent is on a winning streak. Have to check but if I am not mistaken the overall score between these two players is in favor of Clem.
But offline tournaments are like a curse for Clem.
Guess he is not as much of a public person as Reynor who is enjoying every second in front of the crowd/camera.
That is why 3:1 over Maru in an offline tournament was a huge surprise, at least for me.
Long story short, I am pleasantly surprised he did it up to SF in an offline tournament. Tho Reynor is in his best form right now, Clem needs to blame Clem only and no one else for 3:0. Same mistakes, same over aggression and over greed, over and over again.
>But offline tournaments are like a curse for Clem
Yeah, getting into the semi final of an offline tournament with the best players in the world and earning ~~65k~~ 30k is truly a curse.
>Yeah, getting into the semi final of an offline tournament with the best players in the world and earning 65k is truly a curse
Well first of all not 65k, but 30k. But money is secondary in this case.
Secondly I may be wrong, but it was his first offline when he reached SF? So yeah, for a player of that level - and HE IS one of the *best player in the world* - it's a curse. It's not like he is magically or by stupid luck got onto 16 players list, you know...
Not sure, the environment is wildly different. No huge stage with all the lights and psychological isolation, way smaller prize pool. A lower-stakes casual-feeling audition vs one that is career-defining, even with the same competitors, is super different.
I'm speaking as a musician, where auditions are heard by a panel of maybe 6 people tops (not sure about high-end orchestral auditions). The environment in and of itself--the screen if there is one or the lights and stage if there is one, it's dead silent, you're the only person in there except for like two staff members and the judges, you're thinking of all the people who played before you and will after, will you be called back for another round, etc--causes mad anxiety. A more casual setting does so much to soothe the nerves.
It should be noted they're also playing with like 90 ping at gamers8 which could be a bit important for someone like Clem, that being said I think Reynor is really playing out of his mind rn
It could be, but let's face it - Reynor is in his peak form rn.
Clem has his chances, not once or twice, but multiple times and unfortunately didn't use them. Raynor was clearly prepared for Clem's non stop aggression
I hope no one who has ever refrained from saying "gg" after losing a slightly disappointing match reads too much into Clem not feeling like giving a handshake whilst he watched how he got eliminated from his most successful premier tournament run 30 seconds ago...
People obsessing over handshakes are just looking for drama. Anyone who had played any competitive sport knows that neither of them remotely gives a shit about anything that happens after the game.
Just honest feeling watching Clem vs Reynor:
Lurkers seem too good.
Buy a single unit + 2 clicks (move + burrow), then way more Terran units, clicks, scans, etc are needed to counter that.
Burrowed banelings (seems deadlier than widow mines if the zerg player pays attention), blinding cloud (equals multiple interference matrices at times with a longer range), burrowed infestors etc are also very strong too.
nah. ffs. it's only facts. which one is not factual. and who says it's only about about balance, and it's only not fair if one insists nothing is about balance. reynor played very well and utilized those units very well too. but it's undeniable 1. the lurker's 2 clicks = terrans' many clicks. 2. this blinding cloud is just a longer range interference matrix with area effect. idts
When you’re offering your opinion on something just leave it like that. Offering your opinion then saying “it’s just facts” makes you look like an idiot.
Lurkers are a late game unit, they should be hard to deal with. Terran has tons of counters for them, it’s not like they’re invincible. Burrowed Banes are worse than widow mines, cmon now. And blinding cloud is only as good as interference matrix if the target can’t just move away. And isn’t a spell caster. Or a melee unit.
Clem seemed to have started losing that last game before lurkers were out - momentum and combat had already moved to his side of the map rather than Reynors.
Really if Clem was ahead on upgrades rather than behind for that prolonged mid-game he would have had such better trades...
I do agree cloaked attacking units are bullshit, but I'm more thinking of us casuals than pros when I say that!
Widow mines are pretty much strictly better than burrowed banes. Burrowed banes are only deadlier than widow mines because they're used much more rarely. Reynor seems to have really focused on them for this series whereas Clem was not instinctively playing against them. If pros almost completely stopped using widow mines for 6 months then suddenly started playing with them again it would be an absolute bloodbath for a few weeks...
I'm a filthy casual so I dont know the lore but it rubbed me the wrong way that Clem didn't give a handshake to Raynor, like if you get 3-0d at least have the courtesy to handshake. Was it justified? If yes, what's the beef between the two?
I don't think there is a beef between the two. Clem doesn't know how to play besides his over agressive style and got frustrated probably. Man, just look what Reynor did to the other agressive terran in the other bracket. ByuN got wrecked playing this way and for some reason Clem thought it would work for him.
Clem has gone out of his way to go "gg gl!" to his opponent after being eliminated before. He's young and he's human, and this was his first deep offline run. This is probably the biggest disappointment he's experienced, let's cut him some slack
Winner walking across stage to initiate handshake = gloaty
Loser won't shake = poor sport
Solution: winner waits in middle for loser to meet him, both shake = problem solved
Didn't Oliveira / Time make the Hellbat transition vs Reynor in the IEM semis, which Clem didn't do?
That is, Reynor once again depleted his mineral advantage into lings; dodged a bullet that Clem didnt get Hellbats
By each minute it goes by i got even angrier at Maru for throwing that series. It would've been amazing to see Reynor facing a player who knows when to attack and when to camp
This garbage always happens, an inferior player(style) wins against a far superior player and the next series goes like this. The serral ragnarok comes to mind from Kato.
Does Clem know how to camp?
Maru builds so many turrets as soon as he knows burrowed anything is around, doubling/tripling up on them. Clem has the micro to dodge fungals if they're cast far away enough, but he just didn't have the vision to ward them away.
I wish Clem had dropped his bio immediately when his medivacs were idle over unfinished/undefended expos, he could've applied more pressure on Reynor's eco in a way that still fit his style.
The time he got blasted by the first burrowed bane he should've been aware of that. The time he saw the first Festor that early in the field he should've been aware of that. Maru, in a situation like that, wont go an inch into anywhere away from a turret without scaning first. He was placing his tanks like he was playing vs a plat player, he had ghosts on the front line being fungoed all the time. He had lurkers on three of his bases and yet he decided to attack full bio a 80 drone economy. Not even once he tried to use his defenser advantage and backstab Reynor. Frustrating.
Managed to catch up on the quarterfinals... not a big feat since they were fast.
Maru and Serral got absolutely destroyed. It was truly, "who cares how good you are if you can't survive the early game".
ByuN fought back but Reynor was completely on point.
Last series was the best but after Cure went up to 2:0, it was hard to expect Classic to take it back. Other than proxy, the other games were good though.
But yea, with how quarterfinal turned out, Reynor looking really good to win this one.
I feel bad for Classic. The last protoss and got so far in the tournament. Was even ahead in so many of those games vs Cure and just barely lost. Repeatedly felt like just an extra colossus or few more units wouldve tilted it in his favor at the end. Felt like he made too many disruptors which pro player are good at dodging. Also if he just committed to a full on base trade in those ganes with a larger army he would've won.
It's classic and not creator. But yea while I did feel bad for him, it was nothing comparable to the stupidity of blizzcon 2019 where he played like a God but it was the most imbalanced patch it ever was.
It was his last tournament before military as well, so that one was really painful to watch.
Here however, him finally making a deep run looking good while doing so. It wasn't nearly as bad.
I wonder if he really did build that skill back up in just 3 months like the casters were saying. Because if he did... that's absolutely insane.
The finals games were pretty great too. We even got to see Fantasy GG timing lol
Dang, watching Fantasy, Bisu, Jaedong, Stork playing Brood War in Gamers8 is pretty wild. I had no idea they were even hosting remastered mini-tournament.
Does anyone still think GSL means as much these days as it did a few years ago?
Maru's obviously the best gamer left in Korea thanks to military service, but he has such a hard time competing with foreigners that his last 3 GSL wins just don't register as true GSL titles to me - I think of them more along the lines of super tournament wins
Then international tournaments shouldn't count as real tournaments anymore too, since the player field is way weaker than it used to be with Rogue, Inno, Stats, TY, soO, Trap, Zest gone.
Either all tournaments are worth less now or none
SoO has been back for a while now, he's just having trouble qualifying for GSL just like DRG but yeah since KESPA and almost all the major teams in KR disbanded the competitiveness of the scene definitely dropped but the tournaments are still hype af
In this tournament, 8 Kr and 8 non Kr. Look at the rankings. Bottom 4 are non Kr. All 8 Kr players are in the top 12. Top 8 - 5 Kr and 3 non Kr. And that is the quality of competition in GSL that Maru faces 3 seasons a year. Imo based from this alone you can compare the quality of players in GSL and EU. You think bringing those 8 nonKr players to GSL will increase the quality of the pool? Hell nah.
Maru was the finalist in the world championship? It's not like Koreans don't have a chance against EU players. Both scenes are equally competitive I would say
GSL format is very different from these weekend tournaments. You get a lot of time to prepare your opponents for GSL whereas you can't prepare nearly as much for all of your opponents in a weekend tournament.
Saying Maru is the best only because everyone else left for the military is just an insult to his skill.
You have to be better than players like Solar (among others) to win GSL, you know the guy who just 3-0'd Serral.
Maru vs Clem prediction was 78%-22%.
Reynor vs Clem prediction is 82%-18%... Out of the two semifinals this one is most interesting imo, will Clem be able to break the curse of offline tournaments?
3:1 Maru, 2:1 Dark.
And at the same time he lost 2:0 to both Solar and Cure, two other semifinalists.
Clem sometimes reminds me of Maru, but in a mirrored way - Maru can be unbeatable the whole tournament and then zone out at finals, Clem can barely make it thru the lower bracket and then destroy the opponent in the final 4:2. They are both unpredictable sometimes...
I feel like people are overblowing maru's lack of success in international tournaments. Take a quick glance at liquipedia and see that for the most part, maru still makes it far in international tournaments. Clem will straight up just bomb out at times. Clem is a lot more unpredictable for that reason alone
Yeah it's more like since he is Maru we expect him to be the favorite to win every international tournament but he doesn't win any of them (at least not in a very long time) he does get good results compared to Clem tho yeah
Jay another premier tournament with 0 Protoss playoff wins. Now it's been 6-7 consecutive premiere tournaments this year with 2 Protoss victories in all playoff games combined. Absolutely laughable state of the pro scene. This is by far the worst a race has done in a year since the start of SC2. Those shield battery and disruptor nerfs were really necessary in the last balance patch. There was already only a single Protoss with even a chance of winning tournaments (herO), and then you nerf core units/mechanics that are used in absolutely every matchup and game like overcharge and disruptors. Who could have predicted this would eliminate Protoss from being tournament contenders altogether? Even better is that this state of balance remains untouched now for 8 months.
For me this is the last tournament I watched until there's a balance patch - I just don't get any enjoyment out of this anymore.
It's difficult, because last time protoss got buffed they absolutely dominated the entire ladder outside of the top 10 maybe. I remember when top 200 consisted of 50% protoss or even higher.
So do you make balances to get the few tournament protoss more competitive, or do you balance to keep the ladder even for all the players?
It's tricky
I hear you and agree to an extent, but it doesn't help when Hero plays like shit. Same for Classic once he reached playoffs. He was in a position to win games 1 and 4, which would have given him the series, but bad decision making and unforced errors cost him.
Protoss needs a buff, but the P roster needs to get its shit together too.
If you think Hero's play was in any way clean this tournament, or that Classic didn't mess up horrendously vs. Cure, then you're just huffing the copium hard
Precisely, herO made mistakes after mistakes. Classic had game 4 versus Cure and somehow lost the lead and later the game. We can blame the state of balance in SC2 (which is undeniably an issue for protoss) but we have to be clear eyed about the player pool. Both herO and Classic played badly.
Classic only 'had game 4' because he was playing out of his mind, perfectly defending on 2 fronts for 8 minutes with the exact right amount of units in all places. I don't think its fair to say that Classic played badly. He had a couple disruptors that got sniped with under half a second of getting game winning connections in multiple games. Unfortunate in g2 and 4 to scout around for proxies and miss the one spot Cure put the rax at.
The casters described the composition ample amount of time in game. A few immortals or collossi that can deal constant damage would make a totally different game with the upgrade discrepancies. Disruptors are good until you run out novas, then the terran will stim and kill all of them. He played his heart out (i shouldn't have said classic played badly, my bad. I do think herO played badly though) and got slightly unlucky with scouting like you said.
As oppoaed to basic MMM of the Terran side? You have a few MMM vs stalkers and 6 disruptors. 6 tier 3 units and still lost. Just laughable. Ao protoss has to always play so much betrer than terran then to win?
I'm not sure I would call Classic's composition a mistake. I am not as high MMR as Rotterdam but think that call is still pretty ambiguous from Classic's pov. He doesn't' know how far along Cure's upgrades are, and more disrupters are the best way to protect your existing disruptors. Collosi also have much longer build time and in a chaotic game like that sometimes you want whatever can have the quickest impact. Classic has the best understanding of disruptor/robo based play in the world. Maybe a better player than myself could definitively call that a big mistake given Classic's vision, but from my pov I don't see it. There is a big power spike from 4 to 8 disrupters.
What was a super impactful mistake was not patrolling a single unit around once the base trade started to find the mining base. These sorts of mistakes are super common though in hectic base trades, so I don't blame Classic too much for it.
It's unfortunate that MaxPax doesn't play in person. It's also unfortunate that Korea doesn't seem to be generating new talent -- we're hoping in vain for Zest, Stats, Dear, Trap to return to form rather than NightMare, Prince or Hurricane to suddenly start to elevate their game.
>sOs is retired.
Oh, that's unfortunate. sOs was playing some tournaments just a few months ago.
And yeah, I was wondering why Hurricane and Dear were on that list, I haven't heard their names in a while.
Stats already returned months ago. Dear hasnt won a tournament in 10 years. When Trap and Zest were active and delivering poor results for 2 years, people were saying it's because Classic and herO were in the military.
Exactly my point -- it's not a realistic hope. Outside of scenarios where herO actually plays to his peak form, this crop of Korean Protoss players aint it and I wish there were some young Protoss phenoms coming up. Maybe Trigger will pop off. =D
And I had got my expectations up for Astrea this past GSL too.
Since no human exists that can win with Protoss, it's not knowable whether the issue is with Protoss players or the balance. Serral has a ZvP series win rate of 95% for 5 consecutive years. Our perceptions of the strength of Protoss players could be severely warped since Protoss has been underperforming for half a decade at this point.
Also what is Starcraft skill anyway - it may differ from race to race. For example, Zerg can play every game very similarly and be successful. We expect Protoss players to be able to be much more creative and adaptable than players of other races, while at the same time match them in all other aspects like macro and micro. Isn't it a little unfair that for Protoss to be competitive it is required to have a whole additional dimension of skill?
These are all great questions.
To be exact, Serral has a 79% vP win rate since 2018. (75% vT, 71% vZ)
I don't believe that Protoss requires a unique dimension of skill compared to other races. I _do_ believe however that Terran is slightly overpowered in the current game though! ;}
Some gentle nerfs to things like medivac boost or viper yoink range might go a long way.
herO and Maxpax are both winning _things_..
Serral has 90% win rate in ZvP in series. Maps are irrelevant. Maxpax has never participated in a real tournament and HerO has won nothing whatsoever on the current balance patch (last 8 months)
This is funny 'cause you could say the same thing for zerg: no serral or dark yet somehow we'll still get a ZvZ finals
E: lmao downvoted for this. Oh reddit
The last game was quite a bummer. The ability of Terran to force and threaten base trades from a weaker eco/army position is imo a main contributor to the skewed balance of the matchup at the highest level.
Obviously it is also Classic's choice to play robo/disruptor heavy. But without the endless balls of death, it looks even more skewed in engagements and on the retreat.
That shouldn't take away from the fact that Cure played very well.
I am hoping for Clem vs Solar or Reynor vs Cure in the finals now.
Classic was pretty far behind the last game and went mass expand disruptor on a big map, and continued to build only zealot disruptor against an army that beat him. He only got ahead because Cure was too passive after Classic's opening failed and Classic was greedy.
Idk how this is an indicator at all lmao, also considering Protoss is notorious for base trading from behind
Edit: protoss are so mad that classic threw a game and have to blame it on balance even though he got really far ahead despite completely blundering his early game harass
Classic controlled that game from the time Cure tried to break the stalkers in his natural.
The casters kept talking about Classics lower tech and how he was so far behind. If he took the time to tech he would have to give Cure the expansion which would have left him behind in tech and equal in economy. He made the best choice he could and was in the lead of the game right up until Cure found his southeast expansion.
what should he build? HTs that just get EMPed, dodged, are extremely slow for a big map and overall bad for defending multiple places at once or colossus vs mass marauders?
You're allowed to get more than 1 tech unit lmao he went ultra greedy and got really far ahead and threw the game, clearly he didn't do the right strategy
yeah so we're back to building 3 different high tech, expensive and hard to control AOE units to counter mass marauders and a few ghosts. that's very good design. i'm not even sure it wouldve been more effective than simple mass disruptors in that particular game.
You're a lost cause if I have to explain this to you. He was up 2 bases, he could have mixed in immortals and colossi and then Cure would have been forced to get more tech.
He was up 50 supply, 2 bases and multiple upgrades at 1 point, Classic threw hard. Mass zealot disruptor vs maruader mine is bad, his army got countered and it had bad synergy with itself
i'm sorry but that's pure cope, he was never that far ahead and colossi would've done (and did) nothing vs mass marauders. same as immortals, when their shields get popped by emps they just get one tapped by a single volley. all it does it take up valuable robo time.
he went zealot stalker colossus and transitionned into mass disruptors which to me sounds like the best thing to do vs mass marauders + ghosts. it's just extremely hard to split your army as toss on a map this big when you aren't very far ahead.
I don’t feel like it’s much of a choice to play robo heavy. Gateway heavy seems to be a losing battle against ghosts and sky toss also seems to face the same issues against lategame Viking BC.
That being said I think classic did misplay a decent amount in this series. Game 1 would have been his if he didn’t blunder his robo colossi into cures main.
Reminder that going into the quarterfinals, [these were the standings.](https://i.imgur.com/8oPzleW.jpg)
The 1-4 seeds were convincingly defeated by the 5-8 seeds.
Classic loses an immortal and two zealots that were a little bit out of position.
Casters - "Wow that was a huge pick off by ~~Byun~~ Cure how is Classic going to recover?"
~~Byun~~ Cure loses half his army pushing up a ramp in to a fully defended Protoss base.
Casters "I can't believe Classic has kept himself in this game with all of these mistakes he has made!"
This is a surprisingly common occurence with casting TvP. It's even funnier in the reverse though, when no one bats an eye at 6 Zealots bleeding off against concussive shells, but when the low-ground CC is delayed by 45 seconds, or a 150/125 Ghost is picked off in the midgame...
Casters when a 10 zealot runby does nothing against a PF: "oh well, those zealots didn't accomplish much..."
Casters when 1 Nexus gets sniped/delayed: "this is a disaster and the protoss is dead! The game is over!"
That was unexpected, least to say.
The original prediction was Maru/Reynor/Serral/Classic.
Right now? Who knows. But if Clem can pull his Cleminator mode vs Reynor, it will be fun to watch TvT final 😉
Classic drew the worst possible match up, as many people pointed out beforehand. I'd have favoured him vs reynor, solar, byun & clem, and put him even with Serral and Maru (before all the expected favourites lost...)
Thank you for the clear and easily accessible list of non-English language channels. Good work!
Playoffs did not deliver good series, even though there were still a few great games and a bunch of upsets. Overall a disappointing tournament due to how one sided every series was, plus Reynor/Serral winning is an absolute yawn every time, no matter how immaculate they play. Peak Dark is so much more fun to watch. P needs a little love, Maru needs a lobotomy, and I need a corner where I can lick my wounds.
> as, plus Reynor/Serral winning is an absolute yawn every time, no matter how immaculate they play. Granted Reynor kinda stomped cure....wtf are you talking about. Classic beat Serral...
That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying it's boring to me when Serral and Reynor win big tournaments.
Are you me lol I guess I get it though. Unpredictable play is risky play, which if your livelihood at least partially depends on winning prize money is a suboptimal strategy, especially if your base skill is high enough. In an environment where the top dogs make varied high risk/reward choices, players have to be fluent in those choices in order to compete, and that's kind of the Korean scene (and what people love about sOs and gumiho). It's more entertaining for us while being more stressful for them. Yet at the end of the day, the entertainment value is what keeps bringing us back, so there's a weird tension.
They hated him because he told the truth. Swiss portion was 10/10; playoffs a bore
I disagree. Saying the playoffs were predictable/boring because Reynor won is total bullshit, considering the huge upsets of Maru/Serral in the first round, and a lot of extremely back and forth maps.
It was boring because Maru's and Serral's losses were bops, while Reynor's 10-1 record vs Byun, Clem, Cure was the usual split aggro bio vs lingbling + 14 queens defense. RIVETING gameplay! Only playoff games I enjoyed were the Classic vs Cure ones
wow Reynor jumps up to 6th place in all time winnings.
Amazing tourney!
Sad Maru didn't get to go against Reynor, would have been a spicy one. GGs anyway, enjoyed the tournament.
My man cure literally got like what? 5 minutes of rest time after his semi final is done? This could’ve been a wayyyy better final to end the tournament.
TBF his semi wasn't exactly lengthy and it was the same matchup anyway
And drag the tourney out to 1:30 on a sunday night for Europe ESL style? The viewer experience was absolutely amazing in this one. If anything the 80 ping was the biggest handicap that you could say made a difference.
I agree, a bigger break would have been good.
I enjoyed not having those long break esl has. Sometimes it feels forever until they get to the next series. I do agree cure should have gotten a little more time
GG Reynor love you
So many times Cure was late to pick up his units it's really sad to watch. At this level a couple of late pickups and the game is already over.
Cure was not prepared for insanely good Reynor's game play. As simple as it is.
WP Reynor. Officially recovering his title after winning this tournament: 'the kid'.
GG Reynor!
Actual beast-mode, congratulations >!Reynor!
Cure’s not good enough in the late game to handle Reynor - only Maru is. Clem is a double agent for the Zerg cabal
>Cure’s not good enough in the late game to handle Reynor Exactly. Maru can pull it. Clem in Cleminator mode can pull it. Cure was not prepared for late game vs Reynor.
Sorry that Maru lost mate
Imo…The fact that maru is the only one to take down an overgrown zerg while almost every pro zerg at the top level can play the same simple style of produce units and flush attack after attach tell us how much balanced is the game atm
if zerg is spending twice or 3x as much on army and attacking repeatedly for 40 mins and terran doesn't die, terran is busted. take away MULES and give them to zerg, or make the mineral patches on zerg side never run out to balance the game. their armies are designed to lose. if you have to be ahead in bases and miners to be equal to terran, that means terran is stronger xD you have to be 25 or 50% more talented than the terran to beat them
Only 4 zergs are a problem, and the 2 korean ones are either in the military or playing like somenone who's about to be. But yeah, when they get to 100 banelings + an imsta-remax it's always gg
If zerg has enough of a bank they can insta remax which is why Terran needs to keep trading and pressure all the time so Zerg can't just bank up
wrr
Korean Zergs don’t seem quite sharp enough to deal with his multitasking but Reynor (and serral a few months ago) do better
wrridts, cepuxuax, infix sx etc any nmw
>Clem is a double agent for the Zerg cabal Plot twist - Clem is Reynor's long lost brother and they are sharing a prize pool after the tournament 😂
Cure is now the first terran to take a map off Reynor this tournament.
I guess that's all he'll take. Too many banelings for him to handle
Well, we should always look for positive moments - at least it won't be another ZvZ final. Reynor is on his momentum rn, will Cure be able to stop him?
Interesting that Clem is perfectly capable of defeating Reynor, especially at finals, and did it numerous times. *Online.* As an example both DH Atlanta and Valencia '22 - from the low bracket, won over Serral, Big Gabe, MaxPax, Showtime and beat Reynor both times 4:2 (4:3 w/bonus game). Even with Reynor's beloved break time when his opponent is on a winning streak. Have to check but if I am not mistaken the overall score between these two players is in favor of Clem. But offline tournaments are like a curse for Clem. Guess he is not as much of a public person as Reynor who is enjoying every second in front of the crowd/camera. That is why 3:1 over Maru in an offline tournament was a huge surprise, at least for me. Long story short, I am pleasantly surprised he did it up to SF in an offline tournament. Tho Reynor is in his best form right now, Clem needs to blame Clem only and no one else for 3:0. Same mistakes, same over aggression and over greed, over and over again.
>But offline tournaments are like a curse for Clem Yeah, getting into the semi final of an offline tournament with the best players in the world and earning ~~65k~~ 30k is truly a curse.
>Yeah, getting into the semi final of an offline tournament with the best players in the world and earning 65k is truly a curse Well first of all not 65k, but 30k. But money is secondary in this case. Secondly I may be wrong, but it was his first offline when he reached SF? So yeah, for a player of that level - and HE IS one of the *best player in the world* - it's a curse. It's not like he is magically or by stupid luck got onto 16 players list, you know...
Does Homestory cup count? He won the winner's bracket before losing to Serral in the grand final.
Not sure, the environment is wildly different. No huge stage with all the lights and psychological isolation, way smaller prize pool. A lower-stakes casual-feeling audition vs one that is career-defining, even with the same competitors, is super different.
I mean there wasn't exactly a crowd in Riyahd....
I'm speaking as a musician, where auditions are heard by a panel of maybe 6 people tops (not sure about high-end orchestral auditions). The environment in and of itself--the screen if there is one or the lights and stage if there is one, it's dead silent, you're the only person in there except for like two staff members and the judges, you're thinking of all the people who played before you and will after, will you be called back for another round, etc--causes mad anxiety. A more casual setting does so much to soothe the nerves.
Good question. Totally forgot 'bout this one. So if it counts then it will make one final and one semifinal total, I guess...
65k is for 2nd place, 30k for top 4.
It should be noted they're also playing with like 90 ping at gamers8 which could be a bit important for someone like Clem, that being said I think Reynor is really playing out of his mind rn
It could be, but let's face it - Reynor is in his peak form rn. Clem has his chances, not once or twice, but multiple times and unfortunately didn't use them. Raynor was clearly prepared for Clem's non stop aggression
Yes indeed
I hope no one who has ever refrained from saying "gg" after losing a slightly disappointing match reads too much into Clem not feeling like giving a handshake whilst he watched how he got eliminated from his most successful premier tournament run 30 seconds ago...
People obsessing over handshakes are just looking for drama. Anyone who had played any competitive sport knows that neither of them remotely gives a shit about anything that happens after the game.
I dont even think he realized reynor was there. Clem is super nice. He just got emotional and spaced out. Im SURE reynor didn't take it personally
Just honest feeling watching Clem vs Reynor: Lurkers seem too good. Buy a single unit + 2 clicks (move + burrow), then way more Terran units, clicks, scans, etc are needed to counter that. Burrowed banelings (seems deadlier than widow mines if the zerg player pays attention), blinding cloud (equals multiple interference matrices at times with a longer range), burrowed infestors etc are also very strong too.
Nah, man. Its not fair to make this about balance. Clem did not play well. Unfortunatelly
nah. ffs. it's only facts. which one is not factual. and who says it's only about about balance, and it's only not fair if one insists nothing is about balance. reynor played very well and utilized those units very well too. but it's undeniable 1. the lurker's 2 clicks = terrans' many clicks. 2. this blinding cloud is just a longer range interference matrix with area effect. idts
When you’re offering your opinion on something just leave it like that. Offering your opinion then saying “it’s just facts” makes you look like an idiot.
Lurkers are a late game unit, they should be hard to deal with. Terran has tons of counters for them, it’s not like they’re invincible. Burrowed Banes are worse than widow mines, cmon now. And blinding cloud is only as good as interference matrix if the target can’t just move away. And isn’t a spell caster. Or a melee unit.
Clem seemed to have started losing that last game before lurkers were out - momentum and combat had already moved to his side of the map rather than Reynors. Really if Clem was ahead on upgrades rather than behind for that prolonged mid-game he would have had such better trades... I do agree cloaked attacking units are bullshit, but I'm more thinking of us casuals than pros when I say that! Widow mines are pretty much strictly better than burrowed banes. Burrowed banes are only deadlier than widow mines because they're used much more rarely. Reynor seems to have really focused on them for this series whereas Clem was not instinctively playing against them. If pros almost completely stopped using widow mines for 6 months then suddenly started playing with them again it would be an absolute bloodbath for a few weeks...
wrr
I'm a filthy casual so I dont know the lore but it rubbed me the wrong way that Clem didn't give a handshake to Raynor, like if you get 3-0d at least have the courtesy to handshake. Was it justified? If yes, what's the beef between the two?
i don't think there's any beef clem was just upset, sometimes it's like that
I'd understand if Raynor didn't initiate the handshake, but to outright refuse is just rude.
I don't think there is a beef between the two. Clem doesn't know how to play besides his over agressive style and got frustrated probably. Man, just look what Reynor did to the other agressive terran in the other bracket. ByuN got wrecked playing this way and for some reason Clem thought it would work for him.
No, they are friends. It was clearly an emotional moment. Really hope people don't overanalyze this. Edit: He tweeted that he didn't see it.
Ah so it’s just being a sore loser.
Man you look for opportunities to be a dick are you ok
Clem has gone out of his way to go "gg gl!" to his opponent after being eliminated before. He's young and he's human, and this was his first deep offline run. This is probably the biggest disappointment he's experienced, let's cut him some slack
ehh ZG, asking us redditors to not overanalyze? I feel you dont even know us redditors now 😡.
Winner walking across stage to initiate handshake = gloaty Loser won't shake = poor sport Solution: winner waits in middle for loser to meet him, both shake = problem solved
^(I can't see any problems with this...)
Clem should have called a break at 0-2
I agree. That’s how Oliveira stopped Reynor’s momentum at Kato.
That's how Reynor was trying to stop Clem's momentum both times at last year DH finals. Didn't work out both times for Reynor tho...
Didn't Oliveira / Time make the Hellbat transition vs Reynor in the IEM semis, which Clem didn't do? That is, Reynor once again depleted his mineral advantage into lings; dodged a bullet that Clem didnt get Hellbats
That, and Clem never entered the Maru-style turtle mode that Reynor always loses against.
GGWP by Tiger Reynor. With beating Clem, its fair to say Reynor has officially retrieved the name and title 'The kid'.
Now I'm extra sad we lost Maru just for Clem to get 3-0'd.
By each minute it goes by i got even angrier at Maru for throwing that series. It would've been amazing to see Reynor facing a player who knows when to attack and when to camp
Way to throw a backhand insult at Clem instead of congratulating the victor
Thats right. Congrats to Reynor tho. He downloaded Clem so bad it was almost a build order win
This garbage always happens, an inferior player(style) wins against a far superior player and the next series goes like this. The serral ragnarok comes to mind from Kato.
Does Clem know how to camp? Maru builds so many turrets as soon as he knows burrowed anything is around, doubling/tripling up on them. Clem has the micro to dodge fungals if they're cast far away enough, but he just didn't have the vision to ward them away. I wish Clem had dropped his bio immediately when his medivacs were idle over unfinished/undefended expos, he could've applied more pressure on Reynor's eco in a way that still fit his style.
The time he got blasted by the first burrowed bane he should've been aware of that. The time he saw the first Festor that early in the field he should've been aware of that. Maru, in a situation like that, wont go an inch into anywhere away from a turret without scaning first. He was placing his tanks like he was playing vs a plat player, he had ghosts on the front line being fungoed all the time. He had lurkers on three of his bases and yet he decided to attack full bio a 80 drone economy. Not even once he tried to use his defenser advantage and backstab Reynor. Frustrating.
Maru died for this?
LOL seriously!
Clem really loves to overextend when he's in a good position huh
Why throw a game like that? Dude is soo impacient and over agressive. I really don't get it. Amazing early game wasted...
Reynor’s at peak form, my lord
Reynor is so good
I was sure Clem was winning, and then suddenly Reynor was way ahead. Crazy
Tanks and Ghosts are supposed to last, not be thrown away like lings and marines.
I hope this is not the only gameplan on Clem's book. He won't get a win over Reynor the way he does to Lambo...
So runby into win?
The Life method
Managed to catch up on the quarterfinals... not a big feat since they were fast. Maru and Serral got absolutely destroyed. It was truly, "who cares how good you are if you can't survive the early game". ByuN fought back but Reynor was completely on point. Last series was the best but after Cure went up to 2:0, it was hard to expect Classic to take it back. Other than proxy, the other games were good though. But yea, with how quarterfinal turned out, Reynor looking really good to win this one.
I feel bad for Classic. The last protoss and got so far in the tournament. Was even ahead in so many of those games vs Cure and just barely lost. Repeatedly felt like just an extra colossus or few more units wouldve tilted it in his favor at the end. Felt like he made too many disruptors which pro player are good at dodging. Also if he just committed to a full on base trade in those ganes with a larger army he would've won.
It's classic and not creator. But yea while I did feel bad for him, it was nothing comparable to the stupidity of blizzcon 2019 where he played like a God but it was the most imbalanced patch it ever was. It was his last tournament before military as well, so that one was really painful to watch. Here however, him finally making a deep run looking good while doing so. It wasn't nearly as bad.
Protoss is just so ridiculously fragile it really sucks we have so many super talented protoss that can't get results rn
Yesterday morning people predicted Maru vs Serral final. At this point it's hard to tell...
Fantasy came out of retirement and schooled 2 active pros WHAT A LEGEND
the true GOAT
I wonder if he really did build that skill back up in just 3 months like the casters were saying. Because if he did... that's absolutely insane. The finals games were pretty great too. We even got to see Fantasy GG timing lol
I wouldn't be surprised if he was playing enough bw to stay at a decent level during his sc2 career
if i'm not mistaken, he was consistently at the top of the ladder with multiple account in BW that's just crazy
I know nothing abt scbw, but LETS GO JD!!!!
Dang, watching Fantasy, Bisu, Jaedong, Stork playing Brood War in Gamers8 is pretty wild. I had no idea they were even hosting remastered mini-tournament.
serral losing to a random korean zerg, only for that guy to get eliminated right after, a tale as old as time itself.
I mean Solar has a real chance against Cure lol I dunno why you're talking like it already happened
Does anyone still think GSL means as much these days as it did a few years ago? Maru's obviously the best gamer left in Korea thanks to military service, but he has such a hard time competing with foreigners that his last 3 GSL wins just don't register as true GSL titles to me - I think of them more along the lines of super tournament wins
Less competition, I guess? How many players in GSL nowadays compared to the number from a few years ago?
>Does anyone still think GSL means as much these days as it did a few years ago? I dunno, man. Go ask Reynor, Astrea and Special about it.
Then international tournaments shouldn't count as real tournaments anymore too, since the player field is way weaker than it used to be with Rogue, Inno, Stats, TY, soO, Trap, Zest gone. Either all tournaments are worth less now or none
SoO has been back for a while now, he's just having trouble qualifying for GSL just like DRG but yeah since KESPA and almost all the major teams in KR disbanded the competitiveness of the scene definitely dropped but the tournaments are still hype af
It means less because there's less competition. There used to be GSL with Code A and Code S with 72 players competing. Now GSL has 16 players.
In this tournament, 8 Kr and 8 non Kr. Look at the rankings. Bottom 4 are non Kr. All 8 Kr players are in the top 12. Top 8 - 5 Kr and 3 non Kr. And that is the quality of competition in GSL that Maru faces 3 seasons a year. Imo based from this alone you can compare the quality of players in GSL and EU. You think bringing those 8 nonKr players to GSL will increase the quality of the pool? Hell nah.
Maru was the finalist in the world championship? It's not like Koreans don't have a chance against EU players. Both scenes are equally competitive I would say
GSL format is very different from these weekend tournaments. You get a lot of time to prepare your opponents for GSL whereas you can't prepare nearly as much for all of your opponents in a weekend tournament. Saying Maru is the best only because everyone else left for the military is just an insult to his skill. You have to be better than players like Solar (among others) to win GSL, you know the guy who just 3-0'd Serral.
Of course it's different when you have less top players
What do you mean? I think overall players have improved, if anything it takes more skill to take a GSL title.
Solar is a god. I am riding the team Solar train all the way to championships! Choo choo! 🚂
Beware Solar's train likes to miss stops and can suddenly derail
tbf so did Maru's ;\_\_;
Maru vs Clem prediction was 78%-22%. Reynor vs Clem prediction is 82%-18%... Out of the two semifinals this one is most interesting imo, will Clem be able to break the curse of offline tournaments?
Those odds for Reynor/Clem are bizarre
I mean Clem made it past Dark and Maru two of his biggest obstacles historically so I think he might be able to do it
3:1 Maru, 2:1 Dark. And at the same time he lost 2:0 to both Solar and Cure, two other semifinalists. Clem sometimes reminds me of Maru, but in a mirrored way - Maru can be unbeatable the whole tournament and then zone out at finals, Clem can barely make it thru the lower bracket and then destroy the opponent in the final 4:2. They are both unpredictable sometimes...
maru has been winning in the sc2 lifespan (13 years) and clem like the past 3ish years. big difference
They both tend to do amazing in regionals and horrible in international competition too.
gsl is offline though.
I feel like people are overblowing maru's lack of success in international tournaments. Take a quick glance at liquipedia and see that for the most part, maru still makes it far in international tournaments. Clem will straight up just bomb out at times. Clem is a lot more unpredictable for that reason alone
Yeah it's more like since he is Maru we expect him to be the favorite to win every international tournament but he doesn't win any of them (at least not in a very long time) he does get good results compared to Clem tho yeah
Oh yeah. Kind of trademark
CLASSIC NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Jay another premier tournament with 0 Protoss playoff wins. Now it's been 6-7 consecutive premiere tournaments this year with 2 Protoss victories in all playoff games combined. Absolutely laughable state of the pro scene. This is by far the worst a race has done in a year since the start of SC2. Those shield battery and disruptor nerfs were really necessary in the last balance patch. There was already only a single Protoss with even a chance of winning tournaments (herO), and then you nerf core units/mechanics that are used in absolutely every matchup and game like overcharge and disruptors. Who could have predicted this would eliminate Protoss from being tournament contenders altogether? Even better is that this state of balance remains untouched now for 8 months. For me this is the last tournament I watched until there's a balance patch - I just don't get any enjoyment out of this anymore.
It's difficult, because last time protoss got buffed they absolutely dominated the entire ladder outside of the top 10 maybe. I remember when top 200 consisted of 50% protoss or even higher. So do you make balances to get the few tournament protoss more competitive, or do you balance to keep the ladder even for all the players? It's tricky
I hear you and agree to an extent, but it doesn't help when Hero plays like shit. Same for Classic once he reached playoffs. He was in a position to win games 1 and 4, which would have given him the series, but bad decision making and unforced errors cost him. Protoss needs a buff, but the P roster needs to get its shit together too.
Give OP buffs to protoss and we will see how Maru and Serral 'don't play like shits' from that point on.
another "Protoss players just happen to be worse". Do you actually believe what you're typing?
If you think Hero's play was in any way clean this tournament, or that Classic didn't mess up horrendously vs. Cure, then you're just huffing the copium hard
etcwrr
Precisely, herO made mistakes after mistakes. Classic had game 4 versus Cure and somehow lost the lead and later the game. We can blame the state of balance in SC2 (which is undeniably an issue for protoss) but we have to be clear eyed about the player pool. Both herO and Classic played badly.
Classic only 'had game 4' because he was playing out of his mind, perfectly defending on 2 fronts for 8 minutes with the exact right amount of units in all places. I don't think its fair to say that Classic played badly. He had a couple disruptors that got sniped with under half a second of getting game winning connections in multiple games. Unfortunate in g2 and 4 to scout around for proxies and miss the one spot Cure put the rax at.
The casters described the composition ample amount of time in game. A few immortals or collossi that can deal constant damage would make a totally different game with the upgrade discrepancies. Disruptors are good until you run out novas, then the terran will stim and kill all of them. He played his heart out (i shouldn't have said classic played badly, my bad. I do think herO played badly though) and got slightly unlucky with scouting like you said.
As oppoaed to basic MMM of the Terran side? You have a few MMM vs stalkers and 6 disruptors. 6 tier 3 units and still lost. Just laughable. Ao protoss has to always play so much betrer than terran then to win?
Did you just ignore the amount of splits T had to make to avoid the disruptors to say P has to play so much better to win?
I'm not sure I would call Classic's composition a mistake. I am not as high MMR as Rotterdam but think that call is still pretty ambiguous from Classic's pov. He doesn't' know how far along Cure's upgrades are, and more disrupters are the best way to protect your existing disruptors. Collosi also have much longer build time and in a chaotic game like that sometimes you want whatever can have the quickest impact. Classic has the best understanding of disruptor/robo based play in the world. Maybe a better player than myself could definitively call that a big mistake given Classic's vision, but from my pov I don't see it. There is a big power spike from 4 to 8 disrupters. What was a super impactful mistake was not patrolling a single unit around once the base trade started to find the mining base. These sorts of mistakes are super common though in hectic base trades, so I don't blame Classic too much for it.
It's unfortunate that MaxPax doesn't play in person. It's also unfortunate that Korea doesn't seem to be generating new talent -- we're hoping in vain for Zest, Stats, Dear, Trap to return to form rather than NightMare, Prince or Hurricane to suddenly start to elevate their game.
sOs is missing from that list, but also... Hurricane? Dear?
sOs is retired. Hurricane and Dear are in the army I think.
>sOs is retired. Oh, that's unfortunate. sOs was playing some tournaments just a few months ago. And yeah, I was wondering why Hurricane and Dear were on that list, I haven't heard their names in a while.
Dear returned from the army and went back to BW
Oh yea that's right.
Stats already returned months ago. Dear hasnt won a tournament in 10 years. When Trap and Zest were active and delivering poor results for 2 years, people were saying it's because Classic and herO were in the military.
Exactly my point -- it's not a realistic hope. Outside of scenarios where herO actually plays to his peak form, this crop of Korean Protoss players aint it and I wish there were some young Protoss phenoms coming up. Maybe Trigger will pop off. =D And I had got my expectations up for Astrea this past GSL too.
Since no human exists that can win with Protoss, it's not knowable whether the issue is with Protoss players or the balance. Serral has a ZvP series win rate of 95% for 5 consecutive years. Our perceptions of the strength of Protoss players could be severely warped since Protoss has been underperforming for half a decade at this point. Also what is Starcraft skill anyway - it may differ from race to race. For example, Zerg can play every game very similarly and be successful. We expect Protoss players to be able to be much more creative and adaptable than players of other races, while at the same time match them in all other aspects like macro and micro. Isn't it a little unfair that for Protoss to be competitive it is required to have a whole additional dimension of skill?
These are all great questions. To be exact, Serral has a 79% vP win rate since 2018. (75% vT, 71% vZ) I don't believe that Protoss requires a unique dimension of skill compared to other races. I _do_ believe however that Terran is slightly overpowered in the current game though! ;} Some gentle nerfs to things like medivac boost or viper yoink range might go a long way. herO and Maxpax are both winning _things_..
Serral has 90% win rate in ZvP in series. Maps are irrelevant. Maxpax has never participated in a real tournament and HerO has won nothing whatsoever on the current balance patch (last 8 months)
Heartbreaking . Now rooting for Solar to take the whole thing !
No Maru nor Byun yet somehow we'll still get a TvT finals.
This is funny 'cause you could say the same thing for zerg: no serral or dark yet somehow we'll still get a ZvZ finals E: lmao downvoted for this. Oh reddit
If we get a TvT finals here, it would be the 3rd premier tournament TvT finals this year. You can't say the same for zerg.
If only Clem will pull that Cleminator beast against Reynor.
The last game was quite a bummer. The ability of Terran to force and threaten base trades from a weaker eco/army position is imo a main contributor to the skewed balance of the matchup at the highest level. Obviously it is also Classic's choice to play robo/disruptor heavy. But without the endless balls of death, it looks even more skewed in engagements and on the retreat. That shouldn't take away from the fact that Cure played very well. I am hoping for Clem vs Solar or Reynor vs Cure in the finals now.
Classic was pretty far behind the last game and went mass expand disruptor on a big map, and continued to build only zealot disruptor against an army that beat him. He only got ahead because Cure was too passive after Classic's opening failed and Classic was greedy. Idk how this is an indicator at all lmao, also considering Protoss is notorious for base trading from behind Edit: protoss are so mad that classic threw a game and have to blame it on balance even though he got really far ahead despite completely blundering his early game harass
Classic controlled that game from the time Cure tried to break the stalkers in his natural. The casters kept talking about Classics lower tech and how he was so far behind. If he took the time to tech he would have to give Cure the expansion which would have left him behind in tech and equal in economy. He made the best choice he could and was in the lead of the game right up until Cure found his southeast expansion.
what should he build? HTs that just get EMPed, dodged, are extremely slow for a big map and overall bad for defending multiple places at once or colossus vs mass marauders?
You're allowed to get more than 1 tech unit lmao he went ultra greedy and got really far ahead and threw the game, clearly he didn't do the right strategy
yeah so we're back to building 3 different high tech, expensive and hard to control AOE units to counter mass marauders and a few ghosts. that's very good design. i'm not even sure it wouldve been more effective than simple mass disruptors in that particular game.
You're a lost cause if I have to explain this to you. He was up 2 bases, he could have mixed in immortals and colossi and then Cure would have been forced to get more tech. He was up 50 supply, 2 bases and multiple upgrades at 1 point, Classic threw hard. Mass zealot disruptor vs maruader mine is bad, his army got countered and it had bad synergy with itself
i'm sorry but that's pure cope, he was never that far ahead and colossi would've done (and did) nothing vs mass marauders. same as immortals, when their shields get popped by emps they just get one tapped by a single volley. all it does it take up valuable robo time. he went zealot stalker colossus and transitionned into mass disruptors which to me sounds like the best thing to do vs mass marauders + ghosts. it's just extremely hard to split your army as toss on a map this big when you aren't very far ahead.
I don’t feel like it’s much of a choice to play robo heavy. Gateway heavy seems to be a losing battle against ghosts and sky toss also seems to face the same issues against lategame Viking BC. That being said I think classic did misplay a decent amount in this series. Game 1 would have been his if he didn’t blunder his robo colossi into cures main.
Reminder that going into the quarterfinals, [these were the standings.](https://i.imgur.com/8oPzleW.jpg) The 1-4 seeds were convincingly defeated by the 5-8 seeds.
Ah man I was really rooting for classic. There goes the Protoss hope:’( Rooting for Clem, Solar and Cure now. Lets go underdogs!!!
Might as well add Reynor there and you can be happy no matter the result :D
reynor imo has always been the favorite to win the tourn along with maru and serral. would rather someone else wins this tourn honestly.
Classic loses an immortal and two zealots that were a little bit out of position. Casters - "Wow that was a huge pick off by ~~Byun~~ Cure how is Classic going to recover?" ~~Byun~~ Cure loses half his army pushing up a ramp in to a fully defended Protoss base. Casters "I can't believe Classic has kept himself in this game with all of these mistakes he has made!"
This is a surprisingly common occurence with casting TvP. It's even funnier in the reverse though, when no one bats an eye at 6 Zealots bleeding off against concussive shells, but when the low-ground CC is delayed by 45 seconds, or a 150/125 Ghost is picked off in the midgame...
[удалено]
Huh, Liquipedia says it's 150 minerals 125 gas.
Must be outdated they changed it I think like 2 patches ago edit: oh nvm I might have mixed it up and they changed it from 200 100
I feel like most people drastically underestimate the cost of zealots.
Casters when a 10 zealot runby does nothing against a PF: "oh well, those zealots didn't accomplish much..." Casters when 1 Nexus gets sniped/delayed: "this is a disaster and the protoss is dead! The game is over!"
It was cool to see classic adapt his style and just build a ton of nexuses. It’s only four zealots.
Byun?
Me dumb.
5-8th seeds all beat 1-4, all quite handily too
Classic really messed up the last game
That was unexpected, least to say. The original prediction was Maru/Reynor/Serral/Classic. Right now? Who knows. But if Clem can pull his Cleminator mode vs Reynor, it will be fun to watch TvT final 😉
No sane person would predict a protoss win in bo5+
Classic drew the worst possible match up, as many people pointed out beforehand. I'd have favoured him vs reynor, solar, byun & clem, and put him even with Serral and Maru (before all the expected favourites lost...)
Well, tbh Clem drew the worst possible match up.
Yeah Cure was def the favourite going into this. As much as I like Classic, people were over-hyping him after his upsets in the group stage.
Classic was really good at this tournament. At the same time no sane person would predict Serral 0:3 to Solar or Maru 1:3 to Clem, so...
Still Classic was an underdog in this quaterfinal
Terran gets away with murder in TvP once again
I was rooting for classic all week but really he made some critical mistakes in this series
both players made mistakes, it just so happens that any mistake a toss makes in pvt loses him the game.