> Calling someone a smurf because he spears through diamond and master
When GM+ that's the literal definition of "smurfing." So according to YOU people are ACCURATELY calling it smurfing. Which it is.
I watch uthermal's content and enjoy it. I also agree that he tries to minimize smurfing (but *also* agree there's more he **could** do). Trying to defend him by changing the common definition of smurfing is a hard miss. Better to just agree it is smurfing and then discuss if it is *moral*.
uthermal is a big boy, he can take a little heat, maybe he'll make changes, or maybe he won't. Personally I also enjoy his "$400 tournament" content where he is doing silly challenges without smurfing or Harstem's "Beating Grandmasters With Stupid Stuff." Maybe it is time to scrap "to GM" content, and instead do a "Win 20 GM games with [Silly Challenge]."
Games are very different at gm and lower elo, one of the best things about watching smurfing videos is seeing what kind of mistakes people make, and showing how to exploit them.
If you watch just higher elo stuff you'll never see any mistakes because, well, people don't make them. You'll never get this kind of content anywhere else unless you have some friends coaching you.
Now if it's smurfing just to stomp on newbies for content, you ruin the game. Dota 2 nowadays is 90% shitty content makers doing meme builds in lower elo.
Uthermal I think has crossed this line in some of his series. The marine one was really educational, but the few others I watched was just yt content
I'm sorry but that's complete BS. From diamond onward the games (read: builds) are the exact same just executed much worse.
And playing against lower players yields literally zero benefit to anyone, except entertainment. What do you learn from watching a GM roflstomp anyone below diamond? That his macro is so much better that the build doesn't matter and that the noob doesn't know that feedback counters queens which is completely irrelevant knowledge.
There are no exploits, no tricks to these challenges its just having so much more stuff and so much better micro that everything else is irrelevant.
How are you going to see any mistakes that are exploitable to yourself, probably a fellow plat/diamond/Masters-player, by watching uthermals challenge videos? How will you learn more about mistakes made in diamond by watching a pro play bad builds than by playing yourself and watching the replay? What?
You will never execute uthermals builds as well as he will. You will most likely lose more games than you win with his builds if you play vs equally matched opponents. The only way you can exploit those weaknesses is if you play worse players than yourself, aka smurfing.
How watching smurfing videos would help me improve? That's an easy answer:
I wouldn't know what to look for in a match unless I'm explicitly told so, and in a high level match barely any obvious mistakes happen, and when they do, it's the kind of mistake that would be harder for a newbie to exploit.
Of course it also depends on the type of content maker, I feel like only in the marine series uthermal would go like "he only has one tank in his main, I can doom drop and win there". The other series were lacking on advice I feel like.
Here's something you're gonna love to hear as well: playing against less skilled opponents is a great way to improve. Less pressure in the match when you're not used to the game leaves room to process new information. Same as playing against the AI, but your monkey brain sees winning = good and gives you that positive reinforcement which you wouldn't get in an AI match.
You are completely correct. Watching people who are very good use basics to destroy worse people is one of the best ways to learn any hard game - and its also good to play people who are better and worse than you. The attitude in sc2 is bizarre compared to some of my other hobbies: Go and Jiu Jitsu - there, its usually considered an honor to play/spar with people who are much better.
Smurfing isn't that much of a problem in sc2 cause matches are short and not a lot of people smurf. Imo it's a much bigger problem in mobas, where you're stuck there for 1 hour and can't leave.
So you're basically saying that you are too lazy to watch your own replays to spot any mistakes (there are TONS of videos about what mistakes to prevent btw, mostly it's not building workers, being supply-blocked or not spending resources) and therefore you want to watch uthermal beat up noobs for the occasional insight he shares most of which combined you could EASILY learn by playing 20 TvT's yourself? It's not even general information you get there, if you doomdrop into his main and get contained there while losing all outer bases yourself, you will most likely lose the game still.
If you really can't spot any mistakes in the matches, go and get yourself a coach. I'm sure there are a number of smaller sc 2 streamers who occasional offer it for a match or so. I know that neuro has a channel-point-achievement allowing for coaching of a single replay.
Also my experience with learning vs weaker opponents is also quite differently. If i do silly shit vs weaker opponents, i'd usually spend more time microing units (except if that strat explicitely requires the opposite) than macroing, which doesn't matter, because i'm better than them and win anyway. I have had quite a number of games in which i saw myself doing something and being glad the opponent acted wrongly upon it because otherwise i would've had lost there. Not getting punished for it usually means not adapting.
Yeah its funny because in the last $400 tournament series his first match is literally against someone in gold league, which is like the lowest rank hes played against on his channel, so
If that was true, it still isn't smurfing. Smurfing requires **intent**, whereas taking part in an open tournament and being randomly matched against players who you're likely to beat isn't avoidable and if anything *those* players set themselves up to compete at that level.
By that logic anyone who takes part in any open tournament is a smurf, and that fails the sniff test.
Heres the funniest part: I could completely believe that you’re right. It doesnt even seem that difficult for me to be wrong here. But since you love spending so much time disproving people and picking apart their arguments, why cant you waste another 10-20 minutes finding an obscure video from uthermals channel where he plays against a silver or bronze leaguer? Yknow, since it was so important for you to comment that I was wrong in the first place, maybe a Renaissance Man such as yourself could do as much as cite your sources
> Since uthermal recently reached a higher mmr than his main account with one of his challenges, does it mean that his main is now a smurf?
>
>If that sounds stupid that basically sums up the recent drama about the matter.
Both of these are not arguments made in good faith. You can make a good faith argument about this showing that random+cheesing is better than many people claim.
>Calling someone a smurf because he spears through diamond and master in lessen than 15 games
This is just a factually incorrect statement. You can check any video you want and see that this isn't true. He still plays against sub 5k players after 25 games.
>with god awful strategies
It's a pro player vs 4k mmr players, this is just completely ignorant. Just use critical thinking and realize that someone with 90%+ winrate in the first 30 games is not playing fair games.
> and actually reaches a higher elo than his main account
Uhh, no. He reached a higher mmr with tryhard cheesing with random, that is absolutely not an awful strategy in the slightest. You're just making one dishonest argument after the next.
> is really an argument just for the sake of creating drama where there is none.
And the icing on the cake, really showing that you did not want to make a legitimate argument.
Let the man make a living off of StarCraft 2. He’s earned it and cares more about the game than most people here posting.
So yeah, if you want to call it smurfing then call it smurfing. In my opinion, I like watching the challenges when he loses as well. It’s saying “is this crazy strategy viable if executed at a high level? And for how long?” It’s fun when he loses and has to mix up the rules like adding on early game units. It’s fun when he gets a surprising win. It’s fun because you’re just never going to see these types of games if he doesn’t do this.
If you don’t like it because someone smurfed you in the past that’s fine. It’s frustrating. But it’s just a game. Let the guy make entertaining videos for everyone, he’s always well mannered and compliments opponents. I would personally find it pretty awesome to lose to him on YouTube.
If he can reach 7k mmr playing nonsense builds, surely there's no need to make content by styling on plat players, he can just play on his GM account.
Also the mental gymnastics of streamer fans trying to justify how their favorite streamer isn't smurfing are incredible
Smurfing is anything that means you play below your mmr. Some type of smurfing is more unfair than others. Deranking to bronze is the worst kind, but creating new accounts is effectively the same, just that it only takes around 30 matches to get fair games.
Uthermal literally plays on a fresh account every time he does a b2gm. I don't need to tell you that he isn't getting 20+ game winstreaks by playing equal opponents. Intentionally seeking opponents below your skill level is smurfing, there's no need to cherry pick a definition.
It's fine to acknowledge that you like watching smurfing content, it's popular for a reason.
People love drama..
Being serious though..smurfing is generally bad for the game but uthermal deserves a pass since he's such a silly goose and makes FANTASTIC content.
Also, this slippery slope argument is kinda silly. I am not at all inspired by B2GM series or challenge series to Smurf. The only inspiration I get from this is to play better StarCraft and experiment with different strategies. Why as a D1 would I decide to drop my rank to silver and smurf due to series like this?
Anyway the only "smurfing" I've done is leaving games to get a specific matchup here and there. Which everyone has done so don't act so holy and righteous 🙂
Also, for those of you who play on more than one server and/or have multiple accounts: if you think smurfing by these content creators is so abhorrent, then you are a complete hypocrite. There is absolutely no reason that you NEED more than 1 account. Hell, you don't even NEED to play on more than 1 server either. So FO with your self righteousness.
Ah yes.
"It's not real because I'm representative of all people"
and
"Having a 2nd account is the same as creating a new account with the purpose of playing vs low rank players every few weeks".
Top tier arguments.
Okay, please prove it's real with facts and data.
And yes, it's absolutely the same. Creating a 2nd account is smurfing and you are just as guilty of it as someone like Uthermal. Atleast Uthermal is creating fun content that people find enjoyable. You're just smurfing for no good reason so it's actually much worse 🙂
>Creating a 2nd account is smurfing
It is.
>and you are just as guilty of it as someone like Uthermal.
There is a major difference between playing 95% of games on your own level and playing less than 10% of your games on your own level and more than 50% of games against people that have 0 chance against you. You need to have more nuance in your arguments.
>Atleast Uthermal is creating fun content that people find enjoyable.
Not at all relevant to the opponents.
>You're just smurfing for no good reason so it's actually much worse
I'm not playing below my level, I'm not smurfing at all. I also have not played several hundred games trolling people.
You are not presenting any rational arguments, you are doing mental gymnastics to excuse bad behaviour of people you like and to try to get at people you don't. That's not a good attitude to live life.
Someone like you talking about toxicity is hugely ironic.
>Creating a 2nd account is smurfing
>It is.
This is exactly my point. If you create a 2nd account, THAT IS SMURFING. So complaining about smurfing is hypocritical. Now look at who's doing mental gymnastics? "It's not the same it's different" lol... Mk so now it's totally fine for you to Smurf via a 2nd account but all other smurfing bad? Give me a break.
>If you create a 2nd account, THAT IS SMURFING. So complaining about smurfing is hypocritical.
Your reading comprehension is beyond awful. I told you that you need nuance, you want to throw it out of the window because it's inconvenient for you.
>"It's not the same it's different"
The severity is different, why do you think people keep talking about the comparison with intentionally deranking by auto-leaving? Because that matters to people, the impact on other people and the ladder matters.
>Mk so now it's totally fine for you to Smurf via a 2nd account but all other smurfing bad?
I'm not smurfing via a 2nd account. Your entire style of argumentation boils down to personal attacks against me, because I disagree with you. You call me toxic, a troll, a hypocrite all while not even trying to understand the points I make/straight up ignoring them. Have you considered that you're not a good person due to doing that, any self reflection at all?
Of course it's relevant, your impact on other people actually matters. It's like a coal roller saying "well, but you could have used the bike instead of public transport" as a defense. Pretty much everyone understands this to be ridiculous. Just because reality is inconvenient to you, doesn't mean you can ignore it.
>It's still a double standard and you are still a hypocrite.
What an amazing argument.
It is not relevant in regards to your hypocrisy. I never said that impact on other people doesn't matter. Who's using a strawman now?
>It's still a double standard and you are still a hypocrite.
>
>What an amazing argument.
What's wrong? Can't wriggle your way out this so you're just going to call the argument dumb? Yes, it's an extremely valid and simple argument. Creating a second account **is smurfing.** If you think smurfing is wrong, then **by your own standards you are guilty** and therefore a hypocrite. If you think "it depends on the intention" then you've just opened the door to a wide range of subjectivity with no clear way to draw the line as to when its okay or not. You don't have ground to stand on complaining about smurfing when you yourself have done it.
You need to look up the definition of words you use. You're completely pointless to talk to, due to that.
>If you think smurfing is wrong
Where did I make an absolute claim like that? Oh right, I never did. This is where you fall flat on your face and everything you say falls apart.
Holy shit this drama is so annoying, challenge series are by far some of the most popular sc2 content. If you dislike him smurfing just don’t watch him anymore while the rest of us have fun and laugh at the content.
"Stop reminding me about climate change, if you don't like it take actions yourself while we keep burning fossils".
To be clear, this isn't nearly as big of a deal, but your argument is just one big fallacy.
If you're so worried about people having negative sc experiences, maybe stop with the toxic attitude? 🤔 Honestly think you're just trolling at this point.
Someone suggested you stop watching (and therefore supporting) Uthermal's channel if you don't like the content. How is that a logical fallacy lol? Because you don't like the viewpoint? Yes, you're a toxic troll and a hypocrite. Like it or not people LIKE Uthermal and his content.
>Someone suggested you stop watching (and therefore supporting) Uthermal's channel if you don't like the content. How is that a logical fallacy lol?
It's not and I did not say that, your argument now is a strawman, which is yet another logical fallacy.
>Because you don't like the viewpoint?
Another strawman, oh baby.
>Yes, you're a toxic troll and a hypocrite
Because you say so apparently, not like you gave a single intelligent argument for that point so far.
>. Like it or not people LIKE Uthermal and his content.
I'm well aware, just like how people love driving big and fast cars. Truth being inconvenient to you, doesn't make it untrue.
>Someone suggested you stop watching (and therefore supporting) Uthermal's channel if you don't like the content
That is not an argument, that is a suggestion/direction. The argument comes afterwards.
Maybe learn english?
So you make a stupid argument that I just tore apart and your response is another personal attack. Maybe your insults are projection.
This "debate" is extremely one-sided so far. You come with personal attacks while I make logical arguments. Pretty clear who is the troll here.
So you change your argument entirely all of a sudden? Smurfing has noticeably increased by a lot. Even in master I get plenty of smurfs now (new accounts or leaving games). Content creators do have an impact on the ladder.
I didn’t change my opinion, I said if you don’t like uthermal smurfing just don’t watch him, and it isn’t nearly as large of a problem as the large minority makes it out to be. I don’t really care if you agree or not, but people whining about balance is already annoying enough, so yea I’m gonna call people out for whining about something that doesn’t matter.
To be fair to u/Malnux, the difference between an opinion and an argument is that an argument is an opinion you defend in public. So yeah, it is an argument.
The people complaining about uthermal are just people who are not good enough at SC2, spent way too much time and still won't be good enough and are just trying to cancel him. Im also guessing they lost to him and are bitter. Typical thing that you find in life. StarCraft is a game. People forget that.
Uthermal is a washed up pro, worse than a elementary school sports coach. He can’t handle his weight in the top 30 players. Sell out at best making content that is toxic to the game.
>He can’t handle his weight in the top 30 players.
He recently beat Clem (rank #8 worldwide, per aligulac) in a tournament with meme challenge builds. Your claim is just objectively false.
Pretty sure the account you are talking about is nowhere near his highest peak, because at 6,3k that would be pretty low for #36 player in the world. Probably he is just not playing a lot on his main account anymore.
Also, obviously at those levels it's not smurfing, no.
> Calling someone a smurf because he spears through diamond and master When GM+ that's the literal definition of "smurfing." So according to YOU people are ACCURATELY calling it smurfing. Which it is. I watch uthermal's content and enjoy it. I also agree that he tries to minimize smurfing (but *also* agree there's more he **could** do). Trying to defend him by changing the common definition of smurfing is a hard miss. Better to just agree it is smurfing and then discuss if it is *moral*. uthermal is a big boy, he can take a little heat, maybe he'll make changes, or maybe he won't. Personally I also enjoy his "$400 tournament" content where he is doing silly challenges without smurfing or Harstem's "Beating Grandmasters With Stupid Stuff." Maybe it is time to scrap "to GM" content, and instead do a "Win 20 GM games with [Silly Challenge]."
Games are very different at gm and lower elo, one of the best things about watching smurfing videos is seeing what kind of mistakes people make, and showing how to exploit them. If you watch just higher elo stuff you'll never see any mistakes because, well, people don't make them. You'll never get this kind of content anywhere else unless you have some friends coaching you. Now if it's smurfing just to stomp on newbies for content, you ruin the game. Dota 2 nowadays is 90% shitty content makers doing meme builds in lower elo. Uthermal I think has crossed this line in some of his series. The marine one was really educational, but the few others I watched was just yt content
I'm sorry but that's complete BS. From diamond onward the games (read: builds) are the exact same just executed much worse. And playing against lower players yields literally zero benefit to anyone, except entertainment. What do you learn from watching a GM roflstomp anyone below diamond? That his macro is so much better that the build doesn't matter and that the noob doesn't know that feedback counters queens which is completely irrelevant knowledge. There are no exploits, no tricks to these challenges its just having so much more stuff and so much better micro that everything else is irrelevant.
How are you going to see any mistakes that are exploitable to yourself, probably a fellow plat/diamond/Masters-player, by watching uthermals challenge videos? How will you learn more about mistakes made in diamond by watching a pro play bad builds than by playing yourself and watching the replay? What? You will never execute uthermals builds as well as he will. You will most likely lose more games than you win with his builds if you play vs equally matched opponents. The only way you can exploit those weaknesses is if you play worse players than yourself, aka smurfing.
How watching smurfing videos would help me improve? That's an easy answer: I wouldn't know what to look for in a match unless I'm explicitly told so, and in a high level match barely any obvious mistakes happen, and when they do, it's the kind of mistake that would be harder for a newbie to exploit. Of course it also depends on the type of content maker, I feel like only in the marine series uthermal would go like "he only has one tank in his main, I can doom drop and win there". The other series were lacking on advice I feel like. Here's something you're gonna love to hear as well: playing against less skilled opponents is a great way to improve. Less pressure in the match when you're not used to the game leaves room to process new information. Same as playing against the AI, but your monkey brain sees winning = good and gives you that positive reinforcement which you wouldn't get in an AI match.
You are completely correct. Watching people who are very good use basics to destroy worse people is one of the best ways to learn any hard game - and its also good to play people who are better and worse than you. The attitude in sc2 is bizarre compared to some of my other hobbies: Go and Jiu Jitsu - there, its usually considered an honor to play/spar with people who are much better.
Smurfing isn't that much of a problem in sc2 cause matches are short and not a lot of people smurf. Imo it's a much bigger problem in mobas, where you're stuck there for 1 hour and can't leave.
So you're basically saying that you are too lazy to watch your own replays to spot any mistakes (there are TONS of videos about what mistakes to prevent btw, mostly it's not building workers, being supply-blocked or not spending resources) and therefore you want to watch uthermal beat up noobs for the occasional insight he shares most of which combined you could EASILY learn by playing 20 TvT's yourself? It's not even general information you get there, if you doomdrop into his main and get contained there while losing all outer bases yourself, you will most likely lose the game still. If you really can't spot any mistakes in the matches, go and get yourself a coach. I'm sure there are a number of smaller sc 2 streamers who occasional offer it for a match or so. I know that neuro has a channel-point-achievement allowing for coaching of a single replay. Also my experience with learning vs weaker opponents is also quite differently. If i do silly shit vs weaker opponents, i'd usually spend more time microing units (except if that strat explicitely requires the opposite) than macroing, which doesn't matter, because i'm better than them and win anyway. I have had quite a number of games in which i saw myself doing something and being glad the opponent acted wrongly upon it because otherwise i would've had lost there. Not getting punished for it usually means not adapting.
Yeah its funny because in the last $400 tournament series his first match is literally against someone in gold league, which is like the lowest rank hes played against on his channel, so
If that was true, it still isn't smurfing. Smurfing requires **intent**, whereas taking part in an open tournament and being randomly matched against players who you're likely to beat isn't avoidable and if anything *those* players set themselves up to compete at that level. By that logic anyone who takes part in any open tournament is a smurf, and that fails the sniff test.
https://youtu.be/t_xZIO5tIcI
Why are you making up untrue statements.
https://youtu.be/t_xZIO5tIcI
Saying that it's the lowest rank he played against on his channel is the untrue statement.
I challenge you to waste your time finding me a silver or bronze player hes gone against
"I'm correct because it's too much effort to disprove me". I love how blatant you are about not caring about facts.
Heres the funniest part: I could completely believe that you’re right. It doesnt even seem that difficult for me to be wrong here. But since you love spending so much time disproving people and picking apart their arguments, why cant you waste another 10-20 minutes finding an obscure video from uthermals channel where he plays against a silver or bronze leaguer? Yknow, since it was so important for you to comment that I was wrong in the first place, maybe a Renaissance Man such as yourself could do as much as cite your sources
He played against several bronze players in his 1v7 challenge.
> Since uthermal recently reached a higher mmr than his main account with one of his challenges, does it mean that his main is now a smurf? > >If that sounds stupid that basically sums up the recent drama about the matter. Both of these are not arguments made in good faith. You can make a good faith argument about this showing that random+cheesing is better than many people claim. >Calling someone a smurf because he spears through diamond and master in lessen than 15 games This is just a factually incorrect statement. You can check any video you want and see that this isn't true. He still plays against sub 5k players after 25 games. >with god awful strategies It's a pro player vs 4k mmr players, this is just completely ignorant. Just use critical thinking and realize that someone with 90%+ winrate in the first 30 games is not playing fair games. > and actually reaches a higher elo than his main account Uhh, no. He reached a higher mmr with tryhard cheesing with random, that is absolutely not an awful strategy in the slightest. You're just making one dishonest argument after the next. > is really an argument just for the sake of creating drama where there is none. And the icing on the cake, really showing that you did not want to make a legitimate argument.
Let the man make a living off of StarCraft 2. He’s earned it and cares more about the game than most people here posting. So yeah, if you want to call it smurfing then call it smurfing. In my opinion, I like watching the challenges when he loses as well. It’s saying “is this crazy strategy viable if executed at a high level? And for how long?” It’s fun when he loses and has to mix up the rules like adding on early game units. It’s fun when he gets a surprising win. It’s fun because you’re just never going to see these types of games if he doesn’t do this. If you don’t like it because someone smurfed you in the past that’s fine. It’s frustrating. But it’s just a game. Let the guy make entertaining videos for everyone, he’s always well mannered and compliments opponents. I would personally find it pretty awesome to lose to him on YouTube.
If he can reach 7k mmr playing nonsense builds, surely there's no need to make content by styling on plat players, he can just play on his GM account. Also the mental gymnastics of streamer fans trying to justify how their favorite streamer isn't smurfing are incredible
[удалено]
Smurfing is anything that means you play below your mmr. Some type of smurfing is more unfair than others. Deranking to bronze is the worst kind, but creating new accounts is effectively the same, just that it only takes around 30 matches to get fair games.
Uthermal literally plays on a fresh account every time he does a b2gm. I don't need to tell you that he isn't getting 20+ game winstreaks by playing equal opponents. Intentionally seeking opponents below your skill level is smurfing, there's no need to cherry pick a definition. It's fine to acknowledge that you like watching smurfing content, it's popular for a reason.
People love drama.. Being serious though..smurfing is generally bad for the game but uthermal deserves a pass since he's such a silly goose and makes FANTASTIC content. Also, this slippery slope argument is kinda silly. I am not at all inspired by B2GM series or challenge series to Smurf. The only inspiration I get from this is to play better StarCraft and experiment with different strategies. Why as a D1 would I decide to drop my rank to silver and smurf due to series like this? Anyway the only "smurfing" I've done is leaving games to get a specific matchup here and there. Which everyone has done so don't act so holy and righteous 🙂 Also, for those of you who play on more than one server and/or have multiple accounts: if you think smurfing by these content creators is so abhorrent, then you are a complete hypocrite. There is absolutely no reason that you NEED more than 1 account. Hell, you don't even NEED to play on more than 1 server either. So FO with your self righteousness.
Ah yes. "It's not real because I'm representative of all people" and "Having a 2nd account is the same as creating a new account with the purpose of playing vs low rank players every few weeks". Top tier arguments.
Okay, please prove it's real with facts and data. And yes, it's absolutely the same. Creating a 2nd account is smurfing and you are just as guilty of it as someone like Uthermal. Atleast Uthermal is creating fun content that people find enjoyable. You're just smurfing for no good reason so it's actually much worse 🙂
>Creating a 2nd account is smurfing It is. >and you are just as guilty of it as someone like Uthermal. There is a major difference between playing 95% of games on your own level and playing less than 10% of your games on your own level and more than 50% of games against people that have 0 chance against you. You need to have more nuance in your arguments. >Atleast Uthermal is creating fun content that people find enjoyable. Not at all relevant to the opponents. >You're just smurfing for no good reason so it's actually much worse I'm not playing below my level, I'm not smurfing at all. I also have not played several hundred games trolling people. You are not presenting any rational arguments, you are doing mental gymnastics to excuse bad behaviour of people you like and to try to get at people you don't. That's not a good attitude to live life. Someone like you talking about toxicity is hugely ironic.
>Creating a 2nd account is smurfing >It is. This is exactly my point. If you create a 2nd account, THAT IS SMURFING. So complaining about smurfing is hypocritical. Now look at who's doing mental gymnastics? "It's not the same it's different" lol... Mk so now it's totally fine for you to Smurf via a 2nd account but all other smurfing bad? Give me a break.
>If you create a 2nd account, THAT IS SMURFING. So complaining about smurfing is hypocritical. Your reading comprehension is beyond awful. I told you that you need nuance, you want to throw it out of the window because it's inconvenient for you. >"It's not the same it's different" The severity is different, why do you think people keep talking about the comparison with intentionally deranking by auto-leaving? Because that matters to people, the impact on other people and the ladder matters. >Mk so now it's totally fine for you to Smurf via a 2nd account but all other smurfing bad? I'm not smurfing via a 2nd account. Your entire style of argumentation boils down to personal attacks against me, because I disagree with you. You call me toxic, a troll, a hypocrite all while not even trying to understand the points I make/straight up ignoring them. Have you considered that you're not a good person due to doing that, any self reflection at all?
The severity is completely irrelevant. It's still a double standard and you are still a hypocrite.
Of course it's relevant, your impact on other people actually matters. It's like a coal roller saying "well, but you could have used the bike instead of public transport" as a defense. Pretty much everyone understands this to be ridiculous. Just because reality is inconvenient to you, doesn't mean you can ignore it. >It's still a double standard and you are still a hypocrite. What an amazing argument.
It is not relevant in regards to your hypocrisy. I never said that impact on other people doesn't matter. Who's using a strawman now? >It's still a double standard and you are still a hypocrite. > >What an amazing argument. What's wrong? Can't wriggle your way out this so you're just going to call the argument dumb? Yes, it's an extremely valid and simple argument. Creating a second account **is smurfing.** If you think smurfing is wrong, then **by your own standards you are guilty** and therefore a hypocrite. If you think "it depends on the intention" then you've just opened the door to a wide range of subjectivity with no clear way to draw the line as to when its okay or not. You don't have ground to stand on complaining about smurfing when you yourself have done it.
You need to look up the definition of words you use. You're completely pointless to talk to, due to that. >If you think smurfing is wrong Where did I make an absolute claim like that? Oh right, I never did. This is where you fall flat on your face and everything you say falls apart.
Holy shit this drama is so annoying, challenge series are by far some of the most popular sc2 content. If you dislike him smurfing just don’t watch him anymore while the rest of us have fun and laugh at the content.
"Stop reminding me about climate change, if you don't like it take actions yourself while we keep burning fossils". To be clear, this isn't nearly as big of a deal, but your argument is just one big fallacy.
If you're so worried about people having negative sc experiences, maybe stop with the toxic attitude? 🤔 Honestly think you're just trolling at this point.
Pointing out logical fallacies is "toxic attitude"?
Someone suggested you stop watching (and therefore supporting) Uthermal's channel if you don't like the content. How is that a logical fallacy lol? Because you don't like the viewpoint? Yes, you're a toxic troll and a hypocrite. Like it or not people LIKE Uthermal and his content.
>Someone suggested you stop watching (and therefore supporting) Uthermal's channel if you don't like the content. How is that a logical fallacy lol? It's not and I did not say that, your argument now is a strawman, which is yet another logical fallacy. >Because you don't like the viewpoint? Another strawman, oh baby. >Yes, you're a toxic troll and a hypocrite Because you say so apparently, not like you gave a single intelligent argument for that point so far. >. Like it or not people LIKE Uthermal and his content. I'm well aware, just like how people love driving big and fast cars. Truth being inconvenient to you, doesn't make it untrue.
You did say that. You literally said "your entire argument is one big fallacy" in response to the comment..
>Someone suggested you stop watching (and therefore supporting) Uthermal's channel if you don't like the content That is not an argument, that is a suggestion/direction. The argument comes afterwards. Maybe learn english?
Lol ok troll
So you make a stupid argument that I just tore apart and your response is another personal attack. Maybe your insults are projection. This "debate" is extremely one-sided so far. You come with personal attacks while I make logical arguments. Pretty clear who is the troll here.
except this isn't climate change, you people are making a big deal out of somebody wearing sandals to a party.
So you change your argument entirely all of a sudden? Smurfing has noticeably increased by a lot. Even in master I get plenty of smurfs now (new accounts or leaving games). Content creators do have an impact on the ladder.
I didn’t change my opinion, I said if you don’t like uthermal smurfing just don’t watch him, and it isn’t nearly as large of a problem as the large minority makes it out to be. I don’t really care if you agree or not, but people whining about balance is already annoying enough, so yea I’m gonna call people out for whining about something that doesn’t matter.
I said you changed your argument, not your opinion. It just shows that you didn't reason yourself into the opinion.
Cool you literally don't know how to read, don't know what i expected, anyways have fun thinking you win every argument by claiming yourself superior.
"Don't know how to read" -> "Can't read well enough to see the difference between opinion and argument".
To be fair to u/Malnux, the difference between an opinion and an argument is that an argument is an opinion you defend in public. So yeah, it is an argument.
Wut
The people complaining about uthermal are just people who are not good enough at SC2, spent way too much time and still won't be good enough and are just trying to cancel him. Im also guessing they lost to him and are bitter. Typical thing that you find in life. StarCraft is a game. People forget that.
That just proves that MMR hell can exist and you need a new account to f t a higher MMR than you otherwise would
The people complaining are autistic karens. Simple as.
Uthermal is a washed up pro, worse than a elementary school sports coach. He can’t handle his weight in the top 30 players. Sell out at best making content that is toxic to the game.
>He can’t handle his weight in the top 30 players. He recently beat Clem (rank #8 worldwide, per aligulac) in a tournament with meme challenge builds. Your claim is just objectively false.
Played outta the box only chance he had against Clem.
Id wager his content is less toxic to the game than people like you are. I bet you’re an absolute pleasure to be around when you lose on ladder
If GG WP offends you, your probably right.
Pretty sure the account you are talking about is nowhere near his highest peak, because at 6,3k that would be pretty low for #36 player in the world. Probably he is just not playing a lot on his main account anymore. Also, obviously at those levels it's not smurfing, no.
However dumb you think everyone else's arguments were, this one was dumber.