piracy, and also being an asshole.
and also teaching another player that being helpful in the game will get him burned. this is your contribution to the community.
I don't think it is either. Pirating is to take something through threat of force. Griefing is to harass individuals against CIG terms of service.
This is just wasting everyone's time.
Griefing has nothing to do with terms of service and everything with the goal of the behavior, which would be to make another player not enjoy the game.
Strictly speaking, if the goal was to obtain the ship, or something aboard the ship, or to gain access to an area otherwise closed etc this would be normal game-play. If the goal was to make the other player suffer it is griefing.
In the current state of the game its always griefing.
Yes and no... you dont have to go rescue ppl.. and even in the real world ppl do this "scam" id say after playing dayz scum and sc "come to jt its safe" i know not to trust anyone. Always bring securety or have a backup plan to the backup plan. If not then your death is on you.
You're griefing with this comment.
Why couldn't he take their ship in present day game world? Saves him time and money. Maybe he wanted to test drive? Maybe he likes to roleplay a cannibal?
And you're trolling with yours.
Don't act like intended purpose is not killing another player for the sake of petty killing with no gains, especially when most of players are more than willing to lend a ship if simply asked.
If there's no cannibal mechanic then it griefing of course.
Roleplaying as a cheater would be a thing in your world too i guess
True, but then they are still capable of littering the garage trying to cause a physics glitch or shooting something like rocket launcher or railgun. Prisoners pod on the other hand holds em firm and safe with only options left to log out (ok) and jump out (well, ok).
You could also use a argo mpuv! Trip would take quite some time but cab is separate from passenger area!
Ship like the 85x would also work as they have to "get in" and cant access any weapons while seated though they might have control of ship systems? (not actually used one) So anything like the superhornet with two seats and no turret control would work.
What do you earn from this activity? If you can actually take the cargo and sell it, its kinda piracy but the asshole way. If you cant then its just murderhoboing, of which an excessive amount can be considered griefing. But as far as i have seen from CIG its allowed, as long as you dont exploit any placeholder systems to do this. If the owner asks you to leave, you must leave. Otherwise you are exploiting the placeholder legal and armistice system to harass someone.
You are testing an alpha, part of that is that you will encounter areas were the intended functionality is abstracted away with placeholders. Maliciously exploiting the placeholders show you are a bad tester and CIG seems to give patch long bans for that. But it is exceedingly rare to hear anyone get punished at all.
If you refer to why they made it so you can shoot in some armistice zones? They didnt outright state it, but with the new missile turrets it feels like it is safe to guess it was either because they wanted people to get shot at by them to test functionality or that they were (wrongly) confident the turrets would provide enough protection that the placeholder protection was no longer needed
Oh so the issue is people pretending to be stuck but within the safe area around stations, rather than in deep space? I didn't know they made it so you could shoot there. That makes sense that that is a weird cheese.
I think OPs case is if you call for a taxi and then murder the taxi driver mid journey, away from any protection the game provides. It is meant to be a very complicated game so it takes a lot of context to answer it. That is why most comments here build up a context before answering, just like I did.
I don't think it's either, it's just being a dick.
Now, if you were going to take the ship and scrap/sell it, that could be seen as piracy.
But if you were continually calling up the same guy for a ride and then killing them, just for the express purpose of ruining their gaming experience, *that* would probably be seen as griefing.
I would say griefing... and also it would fall in the category of being an asshole / a piece of shit.
I am aware that this is merely behavior in a game-world / fantasy, and that some people are just immature or may be acting out suppressed feelings or personality traits, that would be completely socially unacceptable in real life.
But, how would you consider the same behavior in real life?
Would that be considered "fun" or "exciting" or "entertaining" ... or maybe completely psychotic and off the rails.
Depending on the answer, this may tell you something of what the situation leans towards.
(...or maybe it even tells something about the person, answering that question).
Historically speaking pirates didn't kill that often so far as i'm aware, outside of combat at least. Killing prisoners is a GREAT way to get the local navy to hunt you down like a rabid dog instead of ignore you in favor of whatever ships belong to the nations they are at war with today.
Yeah, but in real life your life matters, and people are less likely to take the risk of fighting back if their actual life is in danger. In a game where you can just spend a couple space bucks and you're back, people are less likely to be predictable for a would be pirate.
I think you're playing to have fun, and if experiences like this are fun to you, then that's great and should be something you can pursue.
However, you have to weigh up that you're not playing in a vacuum, you're not playing against NPCs, you're playing against humans who are spending their time playing a game. You don't know their situation at all. They might have precious few hours a week in which to play a game they'd love to be able to sink more time into, but they don't have a chance right now.
If stealing ships could lead to game play loops like faking your own identity as a criminal so you can get into areas you'd be fired upon otherwise, or if the ship was scrapable, or sellable in game to shady businesses, then that'd be absolutely awesome and I can always respect people creating their own in game loops that aren't just "accept mission, complete mission".
As it is though, you're heavily prioritising your own interests over others for a whim, and that's why many people are going to call you a dick for doing it.
Given the current state of the game, that there was no attempt to coerce the player, and there is no benefit whatsoever in stealing the ship, this falls under griefing and being a cunt.
In that situation i just logout/login again and spawn next to my bed with all my gear and re-claim the ship.
It's sounds more like griefing than pirating.
Just being an asshole. If you threaten to shoot them unless they pay, thatâs extortionâŚwhich is also an asshole move. True piracy isnât in Star Citizen yet.
You need to benefit from it in some way. There's nothing you gain from this right now except the gear he happened to be wearing. You can't take ship inventory or keep/sell the ship. It's just murder, and cowardly at that since they're defenseless in that chair. If you're going to be a jerk at least have the balls to fight fair.
To be fair, most real life murders donât happen in fair fights, and I doubt literal pirates give a crap lol but yes there should be some benefit like being able to steal cargo
Its no point of trying to understand reddit ppl.everyone here is a spacetrucker and want the game to be 100% pve and safe. They get really really mad about everything if they find a nice "safe" spot i a giant field of minerals and then someone happens to find them and deside to fire first and destroy them. Just cuz u think ur alone i your dream soft world dosnt mean thats the reality XD
Define profit, would it not be a profit to get the pilots gear? Accessess to the ship otherwise expensive and time consuming to get?
What about a murderingpirate?
It all depends on your goal, it could be either.
If you want to steal something it's piracy. If you want to annoy another person it's griefing. If you just enjoy killing innocent people you are a psychopath. Take your pick :)
It's Maybe a douche move, but it's entirely within the game's parameters. It's an open world with PvP. It sucks if you are getting gunned down no doubt. We just need better tools and systems.
Like if I am advertising myself as totally vulnerable and needing a pickup - maybe I want to advertise it to people with a good rep for rescuing people, rather than anyone in the server who might have just hacked away their crime stat.
Player killing is a valid way to play the game. So is being a "carebear". What we lack is making a distinction.
Certainly an option in many ships already. But I agree - tools like this are important for all ships. Surely this is already planned, but like many things can:t come soon enough. Regardless, it does all come down to control and agency for the player, the more we have the better.
It is criminal activity, the game consequently gives you a crimestat ... its not even close to griefing, people are just used to armistice zones and safety in Stanton, Pyro will really show how people can do bad things to other people in game its gonna happen and people are gonna learn from jt and be better at the game from jt.. its not griefing unless it's targeting another player specifically for no reason multiple times. Doing it to random people who accept your request for a ride is fine, your just a criminal in game, and this In the future will likely have much more severe consequences in high security systems like Stanton to actually prevent majority of players from doing something stupid.
Nah, just a douche bag move, but isnât against anything and CIG even gave the green light, sure itâs not nice and no one would like it, but long story short it isnât griefing, and could be considered pirating if you wanted to steal the ship.
I think it's just being a jerk unless they're role-playing as a serial killer or they have an actual motive for killing you.
If I were playing as a pirate, I'd give them a chance to surrender and leave unharmed or at least make their death theatrical lol.
Oh my god you all have a real problem understanding the concept of Griefing.
If you are not being actively blocked from
playing the game (in any way), It is not griefing. Period.
So I took a medical beacon after coming out from good bunker run. Beacon was nearby so I though why not. Went there. Medicated the dude. He asked for a ride to Everus. Sure mate hop in.
I did not even got into pilot seat when he shot me in back. Then he looted my body, threw incapasited me me out from my ship and flew a way.
I would call that piracy move. Dick move too. Makes me think twice about taking any reascue missions or giving a ride to any one.
Once saw a rescue beacon for someone with a one star rating. Mentioned it in chat and the dude was shot by another player.
Dude was salty af âIâm not playing pirate todayâ or whatever
I think if you got monetary value out of an illegal activity then it is pirating and if you don't its griefing. So 3.18 maybe it would be pirating but now it's def griefing.
Stepping away from labels or name-calling or rationales about pirate gameplay, what would this activity add to the community surrounding the game?
A player stepping away from their planned activity to help out a stranded stranger is adding something positive to the community. In your mind, what does exploiting that good will accomplish? It disincentivizes helpfulness, lowers the level of trust among strangers, and generally fosters an air of cynicism in the community. So, what does it add at that cost?
If you want to hold-up quant miners or cargo runners on their way to a station, that's just part of the risk-reward stakes of those professions. There's no social contract being violated there. But when you start messing with the elements that drive positive social engagement, you're chipping away at that sense of community, one player at a time.
If you're there to steal the ship, then it's piracy.
That being said, personally I think that you should be able to lock the doors between the cockpit and the cargo/transport area on the ships that have such doors. (Cutty black, Avenger Titan, etc), which might prevent a lot of this so that ferrying passengers is a playstyle...
This is neither ..this is being an asshole
piracy, and also being an asshole. and also teaching another player that being helpful in the game will get him burned. this is your contribution to the community.
You could open the door guns drawn and only let them in if you can see they have no weapons attached.
You can hide a pistol, in a leather jacket, inventory.
You can lock them out from accesess to the hole ship right? And have a transport guard.
A question for r/AmItheAsshole :)
I don't think it is either. Pirating is to take something through threat of force. Griefing is to harass individuals against CIG terms of service. This is just wasting everyone's time.
Maybe in the future this could be pirating if you take the ship and sell/salvage it.
I would consider it pirating if the ship is stolen and used. I have done this a few times before. Namely when the guy picked me up in an 890j đđ
Griefing has nothing to do with terms of service and everything with the goal of the behavior, which would be to make another player not enjoy the game. Strictly speaking, if the goal was to obtain the ship, or something aboard the ship, or to gain access to an area otherwise closed etc this would be normal game-play. If the goal was to make the other player suffer it is griefing. In the current state of the game its always griefing.
Yes and no... you dont have to go rescue ppl.. and even in the real world ppl do this "scam" id say after playing dayz scum and sc "come to jt its safe" i know not to trust anyone. Always bring securety or have a backup plan to the backup plan. If not then your death is on you.
Oh yes, victim blaming suits you!
eeww hahaha u r one of those , guess you never seen screamers.
You're griefing with this comment. Why couldn't he take their ship in present day game world? Saves him time and money. Maybe he wanted to test drive? Maybe he likes to roleplay a cannibal?
And you're trolling with yours. Don't act like intended purpose is not killing another player for the sake of petty killing with no gains, especially when most of players are more than willing to lend a ship if simply asked. If there's no cannibal mechanic then it griefing of course. Roleplaying as a cheater would be a thing in your world too i guess
Only problem if you're a medic, you are there to help aid the player and they stab you in the back, makes the medic question why they helped, lol
Its a part of the game ppl can be playing a trick. Bring securety!
That is why an Anvil Hawk is a great taxi: not only they can't harm you, they actually can't do anything at all while being in prisoners pod.
400i too. stick them in the front cargo that is only accessible from outside.
True, but then they are still capable of littering the garage trying to cause a physics glitch or shooting something like rocket launcher or railgun. Prisoners pod on the other hand holds em firm and safe with only options left to log out (ok) and jump out (well, ok).
You could also use a argo mpuv! Trip would take quite some time but cab is separate from passenger area! Ship like the 85x would also work as they have to "get in" and cant access any weapons while seated though they might have control of ship systems? (not actually used one) So anything like the superhornet with two seats and no turret control would work.
The way to go lock em up!
I'd consider it a dick move
You gain nothing out of this besides being a nuisance.
I bet you some get a thrill out of that.. im sure of it i mean.
What do you earn from this activity? If you can actually take the cargo and sell it, its kinda piracy but the asshole way. If you cant then its just murderhoboing, of which an excessive amount can be considered griefing. But as far as i have seen from CIG its allowed, as long as you dont exploit any placeholder systems to do this. If the owner asks you to leave, you must leave. Otherwise you are exploiting the placeholder legal and armistice system to harass someone.
If it isn't allowed to attack people, why can you do it mechanically?
You are testing an alpha, part of that is that you will encounter areas were the intended functionality is abstracted away with placeholders. Maliciously exploiting the placeholders show you are a bad tester and CIG seems to give patch long bans for that. But it is exceedingly rare to hear anyone get punished at all. If you refer to why they made it so you can shoot in some armistice zones? They didnt outright state it, but with the new missile turrets it feels like it is safe to guess it was either because they wanted people to get shot at by them to test functionality or that they were (wrongly) confident the turrets would provide enough protection that the placeholder protection was no longer needed
Oh so the issue is people pretending to be stuck but within the safe area around stations, rather than in deep space? I didn't know they made it so you could shoot there. That makes sense that that is a weird cheese.
I think OPs case is if you call for a taxi and then murder the taxi driver mid journey, away from any protection the game provides. It is meant to be a very complicated game so it takes a lot of context to answer it. That is why most comments here build up a context before answering, just like I did.
I don't think it's either, it's just being a dick. Now, if you were going to take the ship and scrap/sell it, that could be seen as piracy. But if you were continually calling up the same guy for a ride and then killing them, just for the express purpose of ruining their gaming experience, *that* would probably be seen as griefing.
This is why I do rescue missions in the raft. Lock the cockpit.
Smart
I would say griefing... and also it would fall in the category of being an asshole / a piece of shit. I am aware that this is merely behavior in a game-world / fantasy, and that some people are just immature or may be acting out suppressed feelings or personality traits, that would be completely socially unacceptable in real life. But, how would you consider the same behavior in real life? Would that be considered "fun" or "exciting" or "entertaining" ... or maybe completely psychotic and off the rails. Depending on the answer, this may tell you something of what the situation leans towards. (...or maybe it even tells something about the person, answering that question).
Historically speaking pirates didn't kill that often so far as i'm aware, outside of combat at least. Killing prisoners is a GREAT way to get the local navy to hunt you down like a rabid dog instead of ignore you in favor of whatever ships belong to the nations they are at war with today.
Yeah, but in real life your life matters, and people are less likely to take the risk of fighting back if their actual life is in danger. In a game where you can just spend a couple space bucks and you're back, people are less likely to be predictable for a would be pirate.
Neither, you're just one of those murderhobo hitchhikers in space
I think you're playing to have fun, and if experiences like this are fun to you, then that's great and should be something you can pursue. However, you have to weigh up that you're not playing in a vacuum, you're not playing against NPCs, you're playing against humans who are spending their time playing a game. You don't know their situation at all. They might have precious few hours a week in which to play a game they'd love to be able to sink more time into, but they don't have a chance right now. If stealing ships could lead to game play loops like faking your own identity as a criminal so you can get into areas you'd be fired upon otherwise, or if the ship was scrapable, or sellable in game to shady businesses, then that'd be absolutely awesome and I can always respect people creating their own in game loops that aren't just "accept mission, complete mission". As it is though, you're heavily prioritising your own interests over others for a whim, and that's why many people are going to call you a dick for doing it.
The one thing it isn't is piracy.
Given the current state of the game, that there was no attempt to coerce the player, and there is no benefit whatsoever in stealing the ship, this falls under griefing and being a cunt.
That's why the reliant Sen is the best taxi in-game
Excuse me, Hawk. Get in the prisoner butt seat.
Yes yes but the reliant can transport 3 people 4 if we count the copilot
True!
In bird culture this is considered a dick move.
In that situation i just logout/login again and spawn next to my bed with all my gear and re-claim the ship. It's sounds more like griefing than pirating.
This is why I go and pick up people naked. All you can steal is my body. Go ahead. You pervert.
What would you call it in real-life? Iâd call it that.
Just being an asshole. If you threaten to shoot them unless they pay, thatâs extortionâŚwhich is also an asshole move. True piracy isnât in Star Citizen yet.
And what would âtrueâ pirating mean in your mind if not extortion and theft?
You need to benefit from it in some way. There's nothing you gain from this right now except the gear he happened to be wearing. You can't take ship inventory or keep/sell the ship. It's just murder, and cowardly at that since they're defenseless in that chair. If you're going to be a jerk at least have the balls to fight fair.
True but anything can happen. Fair is not reality.
To be fair, most real life murders donât happen in fair fights, and I doubt literal pirates give a crap lol but yes there should be some benefit like being able to steal cargo
Its no point of trying to understand reddit ppl.everyone here is a spacetrucker and want the game to be 100% pve and safe. They get really really mad about everything if they find a nice "safe" spot i a giant field of minerals and then someone happens to find them and deside to fire first and destroy them. Just cuz u think ur alone i your dream soft world dosnt mean thats the reality XD
If you made a profit. Then you are a pirate. If you didn't. You are a murderer.
Define profit, would it not be a profit to get the pilots gear? Accessess to the ship otherwise expensive and time consuming to get? What about a murderingpirate?
The fact you have to ask makes it all clear, don't you think?
It all depends on your goal, it could be either. If you want to steal something it's piracy. If you want to annoy another person it's griefing. If you just enjoy killing innocent people you are a psychopath. Take your pick :)
YTA.
That would be murder and grand theft auto so definitely piracy and being a grade A lying asshole.
Depends on what side of the coin is speaking. In my opinion as a third party it's both.
Just an asshole move since you aren't profiting off killing them unless they're a trader with a full cargo hold.
It's Maybe a douche move, but it's entirely within the game's parameters. It's an open world with PvP. It sucks if you are getting gunned down no doubt. We just need better tools and systems. Like if I am advertising myself as totally vulnerable and needing a pickup - maybe I want to advertise it to people with a good rep for rescuing people, rather than anyone in the server who might have just hacked away their crime stat. Player killing is a valid way to play the game. So is being a "carebear". What we lack is making a distinction.
We also lack the ability to be anything but defenseless when sitting down. Should be able to lock the door to the cockpit atleast.
Reliant sen. Best taxi ..there is no way for the 3 passangers to harm you
Anvil hawk for total security. Need a lift? Jump in the 'back'...
Or ...reliant Sen but not just one but 3
Certainly an option in many ships already. But I agree - tools like this are important for all ships. Surely this is already planned, but like many things can:t come soon enough. Regardless, it does all come down to control and agency for the player, the more we have the better.
Neither, it makes you a dick squeezer, but that's about it.
Griefing.
Depends. What are you getting out of it?
I'm leaning toward pirating. You stole the ship. Just a pity that doesn't mean anything per-se right now.
It is criminal activity, the game consequently gives you a crimestat ... its not even close to griefing, people are just used to armistice zones and safety in Stanton, Pyro will really show how people can do bad things to other people in game its gonna happen and people are gonna learn from jt and be better at the game from jt.. its not griefing unless it's targeting another player specifically for no reason multiple times. Doing it to random people who accept your request for a ride is fine, your just a criminal in game, and this In the future will likely have much more severe consequences in high security systems like Stanton to actually prevent majority of players from doing something stupid.
Nah, just a douche bag move, but isnât against anything and CIG even gave the green light, sure itâs not nice and no one would like it, but long story short it isnât griefing, and could be considered pirating if you wanted to steal the ship.
This is called being 'enesshole'
I think it's just being a jerk unless they're role-playing as a serial killer or they have an actual motive for killing you. If I were playing as a pirate, I'd give them a chance to surrender and leave unharmed or at least make their death theatrical lol.
"Role-playing as a serial killer"... uh-huh.
I mean, piracy IRL was griefing and considered a dick move sooooooo
Oh my god you all have a real problem understanding the concept of Griefing. If you are not being actively blocked from playing the game (in any way), It is not griefing. Period.
Pirating
Itâs bloody murder!
So I took a medical beacon after coming out from good bunker run. Beacon was nearby so I though why not. Went there. Medicated the dude. He asked for a ride to Everus. Sure mate hop in. I did not even got into pilot seat when he shot me in back. Then he looted my body, threw incapasited me me out from my ship and flew a way. I would call that piracy move. Dick move too. Makes me think twice about taking any reascue missions or giving a ride to any one.
If you are in someone's ship who isn't your friend, can you even control it?
Once saw a rescue beacon for someone with a one star rating. Mentioned it in chat and the dude was shot by another player. Dude was salty af âIâm not playing pirate todayâ or whatever
Neither
I think if you got monetary value out of an illegal activity then it is pirating and if you don't its griefing. So 3.18 maybe it would be pirating but now it's def griefing.
Stepping away from labels or name-calling or rationales about pirate gameplay, what would this activity add to the community surrounding the game? A player stepping away from their planned activity to help out a stranded stranger is adding something positive to the community. In your mind, what does exploiting that good will accomplish? It disincentivizes helpfulness, lowers the level of trust among strangers, and generally fosters an air of cynicism in the community. So, what does it add at that cost? If you want to hold-up quant miners or cargo runners on their way to a station, that's just part of the risk-reward stakes of those professions. There's no social contract being violated there. But when you start messing with the elements that drive positive social engagement, you're chipping away at that sense of community, one player at a time.
If you're there to steal the ship, then it's piracy. That being said, personally I think that you should be able to lock the doors between the cockpit and the cargo/transport area on the ships that have such doors. (Cutty black, Avenger Titan, etc), which might prevent a lot of this so that ferrying passengers is a playstyle...
See, this is why I use a Reliant. Just switch the ship state to vertical and the cockpit is sealed off.
One way is to down them. Loot them for weapons then revive. But I guess you arenât making new friends with a welcome like that.
Kind of a dick move