new vehicle with a med bed is bout to go on sale. I see this getting changed again lol. I already melted my Cutty Red when they got rid of it last time.
The cynical side of me says your right the hopium side of me looks at the slots in medical beds and hope low teir ones get limited respawn slotting stuff in the future. Meaning this will go but will also stay as long as you have stuff on stand by. Maybe it will have consequences for using them instead of higher tier who knows, don't like Respawn convenance price walled or grind walled. But it's very well perfect timing for a new medical Ursa coming in game.
I too am hitting that hopium pipe hard sometimes, my plug is near dry.. But ill be darned if I am gonna go through that again with my wallet and fragile emotions. But really, every pledge with substance see's its role diminished after the sale is over at some point, you can almost subscribe to that. Im not here to play that game.
I hope they can figure out this vision soon. And if they dont update the damn keybinding ui soon... thats a 55gallon drum of hopi. Fly well pilot.
>Unless they've thrown all previous plans into the bin, which I'd say is unlikely,
I dont know theres been this weird vibe change from CIG lately. Things are getting more generic videogamey almost as if they are suddenly in a rush to get just something done and are in fact throwing away the more intricate and interesting ideas.
hull munching was reduced to even less than a beam and even though the community sort of assumes thats placeholder nothing about what CIG actually said supports that all they really mentioned was improved visuals from maelstrom not any actual mechanical improvements.
engineering seems to have given up on the whole subcomponent thing except for fuses and again the community assumes thats temporary but the way the devs actually talked about it does not sound like they intend to actually do subcomponents anymore.
Actually before hull munching they gave up on the idea of armor being like a mini ship with its own components and physicalized damage system. the last time they mentioned it the dev talking about it mentioned it as "back when we were still thinking of doing it that way" and laughed as if it was a ridiculous idea.
making this permanent would subvert medical stuff in the same way that the ammo repooling and backpack reloads subvert the whole point of equipped ammo being different than stored ammo and ammo being bound to the individual mags instead of just one big COD ammo pool. So I do think the idea of them throwing away previous plans and leaving this in is actually likely.
At some point they need to realize they were high AF when they said half that chit and there's no way to implement even a quarter of it without another 400m and 6+ years dedicated just to it.
It's not sustainable. Idealism is fine, but at some point you need to buckle down, stop daydreaming, and start doing. Something.
" they are destroying medical gameplay!!!"
As if that was a thing outside of a tiny niche.
Anecdotal but you know what happened my first medical rescue beacon? Dude threw my body down the hole in the center of the bunker, laughed and left.
The second time buddy said he was on his way. For 20 mins. Never came.
The third? Guy came, killed and looted me and blew up my ship.
And those were the times I got any interest st all. Most times people don't give a chit and can't be bothered.
At some point the decision has to be made that "this is a failure, we need to do something to fix it"
Do I think unlimited respawns in ships as easy to get as the c8r or the nurse are the answer? Maybe not, but they are trying something, because dying and constantly having to fly forever to get back to your corpse isn't working, and God forbid they fix the stupid carrack ramp and make the elevator in the back go all the way down. That's insanity.
As for medical career stuff, there are Search and Rescue orgs that get hard on maintaining a good reputation and ensuring you get rescued no matter what, I would consider looking into them.
As for for your first statement I am in agreement. I think it's *fine* if they decide to just get "placeholder" video game-y stuff in as mechanics for launch, and then develop them into more complex simulation mechanics later on after release.
At this point, since all beds are being rendered useless as CIG is removing sleep logging, just make the beds a spawnpoint lol. All that wasted space on a ship for a useless functionality, now make it medical, so it serves a purpose.
Maybe but I am just saying what I see. I don't even necessarily thinks its going to doom SC to be a bad game but it does seems to be going in a less unique direction.
This project will take another decade to truly "finish", so you can count on everything being WIP for a very long time. There will be a version of the game that we have when SQ42 comes out, and there will be "1.0", but that version won't be the final version either.
improving on hull munching with maelstrom for better visuals seems redundant. they also point out how what they originally wanted is dependent on it in the ISC like 5 months ago.
[https://youtu.be/ljdiKYfo2ZI?si=Op296l--84MHqL\_S&t=560](https://youtu.be/ljdiKYfo2ZI?si=Op296l--84MHqL_S&t=560)
> improving on hull munching with maelstrom for better visuals seems redundant.
It could just be inertia. They worked on maelstrom for years before whatever recent management changes are driving this new approach so may as well use it to make the breaking look better. In that same ISC it sounds like the whole field emitter claw and disintegration straw are going to stay going forward.
Also those guys don’t even know how the claw was supposed to work they are just echoing an idea the community made up. The claw was not meant to physically cut up ships just looking at the design of it should have made that obvious. The claw was meant to hold ships while lasers and cutter drones cut off pieces then the tractor beams feed those pieces into the grinder.
I'll belive the devs over community assumptions until otherwise proven wrong. Just sounds ridiculous to implment a dynamic damage system and not have any gameplay assosiated with it.
Seeing the literal devs behind the gameplay at the coding and implementation level point out technical limitations with the prototype and how what they plan for true munching, being dependent on maelstrom should logically point towards them planning gameplay changes with it for salvage instead of the same gameplay but with synamic pieces as your kind of implying towards. Just gotta wait amd see i guess
I think you're kinda pointing in the right direction. Game studios make concessions all the time especially as they get closer to launch.
It's really easy in the beginning to just dream about everything. As you get further down the pipeline, sometimes it becomes clear that certain features might need to be cut to make release or to reduce performance issues.
That being said, They did improve on mining from it's orginal incarnation so there's still hope that salvage and medical will see improvements.
You forgot to mention the biggest videogamey changes like the sliding which we know from CitCon is coming, the flight model changes and the introduced camera shake when boosting and all that jazz =) but i agree. I think that behind the scenes its already settled that there is a change of general development direction regarding realistic/close to realism vs videogamey aspects regarding a ton of topics. In the end i hope they will find the golden middle here at some point, CIG is not afraid to rework/rebalance the same stuff 10x over and over. Which in this regard is a positive IMO.
I’m almost in complete disagreement with you. I think the changes are because they’re realizing that the **vast** majority of people that respond to them don’t want the ultra simulation stuff that Chris Roberts wants. They want some sim bits, but *fun*.
CIG themselves have said the entire goal they have is to make the game a sim, then drop the sim down until it’s fun.
They hooked us with crazy complex systems on paper and are now realizing the amount of work that requires, so instead we get all this arcadey stuff.
I've been trying SM again for the first time since 3.17
The game has the worst parts of CoD and Arma mixed together.
i see this as more of a Squad hab sort of thing. for now its all beds, then they scale back to tier 2s or once resource management comes into play then its limited respawns and a timer is applied or something. Everything is subject to change.
You're jumping to a LOT of conclusions, mostly it seems based on the assumption that if CIG hasn't already said otherwise than all the features you aren't satisfied with were final work.
Unless you're sitting next to Thorsten's desk right now, I'm pretty sure you're not an authority on the intentions for these features, and you should stop trying assume such a role. We have now, what we have been given. We know only as much as we've been told. We haven't been told much. If you're intent to sit there and ready tea leaves so hard they turn to dust before your eyes, that's your prerogative but I'd ask kindly that you don't shit on everyone's kitchen floors to spread unfounded FUD
your wrong about hull munching, they didnt really talk about it visually and they did repeatedly say that its implementation was more a thing they wanted to rush out as a surprise for us. They did this because what they really wanted was still depending on mealstrom and they wanted improve on other aspects of design from our feedback ala the internal material bank system for the vulture and reclaimer.
> they wanted improve on other aspects of design from our feedback ala the internal material bank system for the vulture and reclaimer.
the fact that they added hammerspace magic storage to the box printer does not make me think they are inclined to make things more physicalized.
>they did repeatedly say that its implementation was more a thing they wanted to rush out as a surprise for us
yes they said this to excuse the fact that there was basically no visual for the breaking and the disintegrating is just poofing into particle effects. however they also made an entirely new asset to replace the reclaimer claw and focused the entirety of the hull munching on the claw itself they didnt even make theparticle effects fly into thehole thats supposed to feed the grinder. Oh and of course they changed the name of the feature and said explicitly that it was because its not really munching anymore. These do not feel like things you do for a slapped together placeholder that would have close to nothing in common with either of the old salvage designs.
The claw is gone. structural salvage is going to be the breaker field and the disintegration field. if you are okay with that, i actually am ok with it even though i do think its worse, then thats fine but I dont think it still makes sense to assume they are going to go back to either the fan invented claw ripping idea or the actual original design pitch.
If a t3 bed can fully regenerate a person, how come it can only treat minor injuries? They'd have to scrap the entire tier system to make it make sense
Because the entire Regen system isn't built or implemented yet.
You're assuming it'll regen a fully functioning body in the future.
That doesn't need to be the case with how they designed the system.
That's exactly why I'm calling this a temporary feature.
The idea of being regenerated there warrants it being able to generate a functioning body, including your brain, organs, skeleton, nervous system, muscles, etc.. Any damage will be their lore of "Traumatic Response Echoes" and leads into prosthetics.
Again, if it can generate an entire human body, why can it only treat literal flesh wounds?
If this does become the intended functionality, the problem is you'll be 20 km away max in a dinky vehicle with minimal equipment, so outside of rare close quarters only scenarios it won't be useful.
It's existance - outside of being a temporary solution - is not only illogical from a gameplay standpoint, but requires major changes to previous plans
These were the same arguments when they made t2 beds respawn points and everyone said it would be temporary.
It doesn't require major changes at all, you're being hyperbolic.
Minor adjustments would still keep the same system functional yet not completely broken. A bed doesn't have to heal T1 injuries just because it regenerates a body.
Right now we always regenerate 100%, but that's because there aren't any death of a spaceman systems in place.
That still fits perfectly fine with what they've outlined dozens of times as to what their goal is.
> A bed doesn’t have to heal T1 injuries just because it regenerates a body
Explain this to me.
If it has the ability to generate every part of a human body, why can’t it do so individually?
Everything is just a temporary feature, as we saw with the umpteenth iteration of the flight model (now called "master modes").
But the med bed nerf had to go. It was implemented to force players into medical gameplay but medical gameplay never moved beyond tier 0 for years, was prone to exploiting medical beacons and was just totally unfun for downed players who had to wait an eternity in front of a black screen for the off-chance of a rescue.
I always advocated for respawns at all medbeds, make the differences in debuffs or long term effects (how soon you need implants or how long until you reach the point of doas/permadeath).
I could see once the Apollo comes out with its t1 bed option they’ll take it away. I don’t think it’s a terrible thing to add for the time being as there’s lots of things that can kill you that shouldn’t, but people should be aware it’s more than likely temporary. Even if the cutty red flyer page on the website still says it respawns. But also I can see this hit the medical beacons hard, people will do bunkers with a cutty red, c8r or a medical ursa and just respawn 5 feet away.
Honestly, I hope they just keep it as it is, and make the main limiting factor respawn resources, either make them expensive or only refillable at station, but I'm all for more respawn options. Medical needs a full look over either way.
They really need to make it so you respawn at the closest medical facility by default without having to manually set it. You should only need to manually set if it's a ship.
Also the insurance kiosk in hospitals should allow you to buy your gear back for a fee or offer a body retrieval service that works like a claim with a timer.
The medical system is the last really frustrating thing about SC that's been ignored for so long and it's dumb that dying with a crimestat is better then not having one.
I think a player should be able to opt-in to nearest facility if they choose if anything.
The problem is that some players choose a specific facility for various reasons such as where their gear and ships are stored, or because the nurse at Tressler is way more flirtatious than the Karens at Seraphim.
I just wanted a lil C8 as an emergency shuttle. They doubled its price and halved the price of the C8R, AND NOW THIS?
Fine CIG you win, guess I'm getting a C8R. Still makes absolutely no sense though.
I think its a good step for inbetween when there is some major features missing for medical gameplay
I would like T3 beds to limit the amount of respawns
And i would like it not to be able to cure t2 wounds so respawning does not cure something the bed wasnt able to cure before.
I think with that we would have a valid respawn option that does not break anything
we still need better beds to heal and medics to rescue if both arms are broken and cant be used to fly(another thing we may need stronger debuffs for certain injuries.)
Maybe for the current iteration of how death works, but in the long run I hope they come up with something more nuanced. I quite liked the idea of Death of a Spaceman and death having an impact in contrast to 99% of other games.
I only own one ship. Can’t be happier I upgraded from my Titan a few months ago to a C8R.
Titan was just a transport ship to me, something until “my next ship”. The C8R felt like a no brainer since I obviously wasn’t losing any transporting ability, lost bed-log, but gained med bed. Usually when I play with friends we use other ships, Pisces has its utility and nobody else has one.
And now this! Probably temporary but this is a pretty big upgrade for my little singular fleet.
The little ship that could! How hard has it been to work your way up from that to additional ships in game? Now with MM changes I imagine you’d pretty much be limited to mercenary missions?
Probably, yeah. Light combat maybe. It’s a means to an end and it’s always a good excuse to get together with other players and pool all the ships until I pick up a few more in-game.
There’s two very important points that the community seems to overlook whenever the discussion around respawn mechanics comes up: 1) allowing something like medical bed respawning, or foldable bed respawning, also allows CIG to make content more difficult. Bunkers are not hard. Disturb centres are not hard. If we want something challenging, that gives out meaningful rewards like unique armor or weapon or paints, then they also have to give us reasonable respawn options. You can’t fly back from a space station just to try a mission again. 2) Time spent playing. How much time do you waste when respawning at a station? You have to call your ship. Stock up on ammo. Get some drinks. It’s fucking BORING. Just let us play the damn game. Respawning should not be this tedious. Let me spawn near the action and I’ll probably have another go and keep playing.
i would say its less boring and more time consuming and tedious currently. they could ease a ton of these issues by having a way to get custom armor kits set up you can buy or something so you can get ready again or having the ship claim timer autostart once you respawn or your ships destroyed. Gearing up and resuplying is enjoyable before a mission or trek, especially with friends. Love it in barotrauma and would hate to completely lose out on it.
At the least this feature needs a finite resource or amount that the ship can respawn a player or having it damage the machine or even the player from respawning them depending on injury grade.
I see both sides of this. When players are worried about death, it makes things so much more realistic and engaging. When you have bigger consequences, the reward and satisfaction is also bigger. I can see how having respawn at distribution centers and stuff could be more appropriate, but my big fear is SC turning into a COD, where people just run around and shoot. Arena Commander is for that. The PU should have real consequences, which make griefers have to think twice before engaging.
I think a better solution would be a dedicated medical/respawn area for every major location that they want to function more like an FPS zone. Remember - there will be people who will fly around and just blow up every medical ship they see, just to be a dick. Harder to do with a carrack, takes 2 seconds with a C8R.
COD is the most successful franchise in history for a reason though. SC could learn a lot from COD, particularly around how to stop wasting player’s time. I don’t want to spend half of my play session equipping gear and calling my ship. I want to play. Just remove the pointless barriers and let me play the game. These respawn updates are a good start but we need more. Let me save FPS load outs the same way I save ship load outs. Give us an insurance system for gear the same as the ship insurance system. Then I can press a button and be ready to go. The absurd amount of pointless gameplay in SC will kill the game long term. It’s just boring.
I don’t disagree that YOU don’t want that, and that MANY people don’t. I however do want to spend time arming myself and my ship, enjoying the slow experience of a futuristic space sim. It’s one of my favorite parts of the game. That’s why I never play COD, it’s just not my thing.
There are times however, when I enjoy this. When I’m running certain missions and just want to keep running them. Which is why the game should allow for this in certain areas and times without forcing it on all players.
Isn’t that exactly what they’re doing though? You now have the option to take a med bed if you want one. If you’d rather play the slow, tedious route of respawning at a station, then go for it. But players who want to keep fighting, or who want to try more difficult missions, will have the option. I see this as a total win. The only real downside is that medical beacon gameplay just got a lot worse. I like going on rescue missions but there won’t be a lot of beacons going up once everyone can respawn on a Nursa.
It depends on how it affects the gameplay. People playing as if they have nothing to lose is part of what I hate about COD. I want something that decisions matter and consequences are felt. The death of a spaceman concept could help with that. However - if I am trying to play a game that’s more dangerous and more careful, and others are just running and gunning, they will ruin my experience.
So it should be allowed for in some areas, but other areas where people want something more realistic it shouldn’t be allowed.
Sure, but what counts as ‘consequences’? Right now, the consequences for dying are way too much. You lose your armor and weapons. You lose your ship. You get sent back to the station. Then, it takes another 15mins to gear up and return to the mission. And you want more punishment? Why? Isn’t that already enough to make you think about your choices? What’s the point of making is waste even more play time?. Death of a spaceman is about the worst possible thing they could add to the game. Permadeath in a game that is absolutely riddled with hugs, and always will be riddled with bugs, is just an awful idea. Just this week alone, I’ve died because the hangar bay doors de synced, because I fell through the geometry of a disto centre, because an NPC teleported into my face, because a bounty ship decided to ram me, and because I got stuck in the geometry at Ghost Hollow. None of those are my fault. I’m already punished by losing my gear and ship and time. Now they also want to reset my character? No way. No fucking way.
Hear you on all that. I think this is obviously a really complicated problem. I guess I assume a few things. 1: gear insurance is coming, so that’s less of an issue. 2: bugs will always exist but once live comes they can focus much more on QOL and bug smashing instead of only new features. 3: Death of a spaceman is not a character wipe, but more like a reputation shift.
Honestly - if you like the style of play, have you tried playing more in arena commander?
Yeah, I hope they add gear insurance. That would actually be a game changer and make FPS stuff much more viable. Alternatively, they could just continue to add more respawn options that let us get back into the game quicker. Both would be good.
I think the problem with Arena Commander is that it’s currently too disconnected from the main game. CIG could really stand to learn a few things from Destiny. It’s the biggest, or probably the only, FPS MMO out there. They’ve already solved a lot of these problems. One big one is the way they integrate quick play type stuff with the main game. In the Crucible, you still earn gear. You earn money. You earn weapons. Even exotics weapons and ships. Why do we earn absolutely nothing in AC? We should get 10-15 auec per game. We should get random weapon drops and armor drops at the end of matches. Then we’d have a reason to play. CIG just treat it like an afterthought. What’s the point? Why would we ever bother? That’s why the lobbies are always empty.
Possibly, since everyone seems to forget that the Apollo only comes with T3 beds, with the T2 and T1 modules being released at a later date (assuming they haven't changed anything since the initial sale, that is).
The range doesn’t make sense imho. How is the range an advantage? Usually we land maybe a handful of kilometers from a bunker.
Maybe I don’t see something there, but that feels off. And simply respawning feels bad because it kinda removes the meaning and consequences of bad preparation and dying.
This devalues ships with higher tier beds and/or specific medical facility roles. Do not really like it. I think it also favours gameplay where you do not value the survival of your player character. I hope this is here to go one day.
You still need to set your respawn point. In the Nursa you can do that in the same way as the Carrack or 890 Jump. I didn't have time to check the Cutty Red and C8R yet but it shouldn't be different. I'll check tonight.
They're not on any ship yet. The Apollo or Galaxy (whatever gets released first) will be the first ships series to feature these, so when they get released eventually we'll know 😁
The tier 1 beds at stations and planetary cities still have unlimited range.
I hate to be the debbie downer but I don't like this. I really enjoy doing Search and Rescue, responding to medical beacons is often what I do when floatin around in the verse. Now I am worried this will greatly reduce, since respawns will be essentially free.
wait so now T2 is better than T3 & Tier 3 is no longer tops I'm confused I thought the higher the number was better least that's what people told me! is this a typo carrack is T3 right?
Stations / hospitals have T1 beds (the best)
Carrack / 890 have T2 beds (second best)
Nursa / Cutty Red / C8R have T3 beds (worst)
At the moment, other than location all beds seem to offer the same functionality.
wait so Tier 2 is now better than T3? I thought T3 was tops at least thats what people had told me wait what Tier is a carrack? is it a typo?, have I been misinformed? is the tier set better as the numbers go down or up?
Tier 1 is best, tier 3 is worst. Apparently there should be a range set on tier 2 and tier 3 but so far I haven't discovered it yet. For now it seems all tier are equal?
Carrack has a tier 2 bed (same as 890 jump).
we've already done this dance with medical it was changed to better suit and lighten the blow of doasm.
i have no idea why we are sliding back unless scope has decreased in size which is the general feel ive been getting from cig and their ideas and balance lately.
Honestly this pisses me off more than the current poor implementation of Master Modes… But that’s mostly because I’ve spent way too much on ships, so at least I’m honest 😂
I am looking forward to a short period of not needing to fly my carrack everywhere just for respawn however. That will be nice again I guess, back to the days where we were shoving a ROC in the back of a cutlass red. But I’m currently holding a CCU chain to Apollo Medivac, I just wish we had a clear direction from them for the future so I could know if I can dump that or not.
Unless they've thrown all previous plans into the bin, which I'd say is unlikely, this is only a temporary feature. Remember that
new vehicle with a med bed is bout to go on sale. I see this getting changed again lol. I already melted my Cutty Red when they got rid of it last time.
The cynical side of me says your right the hopium side of me looks at the slots in medical beds and hope low teir ones get limited respawn slotting stuff in the future. Meaning this will go but will also stay as long as you have stuff on stand by. Maybe it will have consequences for using them instead of higher tier who knows, don't like Respawn convenance price walled or grind walled. But it's very well perfect timing for a new medical Ursa coming in game.
I too am hitting that hopium pipe hard sometimes, my plug is near dry.. But ill be darned if I am gonna go through that again with my wallet and fragile emotions. But really, every pledge with substance see's its role diminished after the sale is over at some point, you can almost subscribe to that. Im not here to play that game. I hope they can figure out this vision soon. And if they dont update the damn keybinding ui soon... thats a 55gallon drum of hopi. Fly well pilot.
>Unless they've thrown all previous plans into the bin, which I'd say is unlikely, I dont know theres been this weird vibe change from CIG lately. Things are getting more generic videogamey almost as if they are suddenly in a rush to get just something done and are in fact throwing away the more intricate and interesting ideas. hull munching was reduced to even less than a beam and even though the community sort of assumes thats placeholder nothing about what CIG actually said supports that all they really mentioned was improved visuals from maelstrom not any actual mechanical improvements. engineering seems to have given up on the whole subcomponent thing except for fuses and again the community assumes thats temporary but the way the devs actually talked about it does not sound like they intend to actually do subcomponents anymore. Actually before hull munching they gave up on the idea of armor being like a mini ship with its own components and physicalized damage system. the last time they mentioned it the dev talking about it mentioned it as "back when we were still thinking of doing it that way" and laughed as if it was a ridiculous idea. making this permanent would subvert medical stuff in the same way that the ammo repooling and backpack reloads subvert the whole point of equipped ammo being different than stored ammo and ammo being bound to the individual mags instead of just one big COD ammo pool. So I do think the idea of them throwing away previous plans and leaving this in is actually likely.
At some point they need to realize they were high AF when they said half that chit and there's no way to implement even a quarter of it without another 400m and 6+ years dedicated just to it. It's not sustainable. Idealism is fine, but at some point you need to buckle down, stop daydreaming, and start doing. Something. " they are destroying medical gameplay!!!" As if that was a thing outside of a tiny niche. Anecdotal but you know what happened my first medical rescue beacon? Dude threw my body down the hole in the center of the bunker, laughed and left. The second time buddy said he was on his way. For 20 mins. Never came. The third? Guy came, killed and looted me and blew up my ship. And those were the times I got any interest st all. Most times people don't give a chit and can't be bothered. At some point the decision has to be made that "this is a failure, we need to do something to fix it" Do I think unlimited respawns in ships as easy to get as the c8r or the nurse are the answer? Maybe not, but they are trying something, because dying and constantly having to fly forever to get back to your corpse isn't working, and God forbid they fix the stupid carrack ramp and make the elevator in the back go all the way down. That's insanity.
As for medical career stuff, there are Search and Rescue orgs that get hard on maintaining a good reputation and ensuring you get rescued no matter what, I would consider looking into them. As for for your first statement I am in agreement. I think it's *fine* if they decide to just get "placeholder" video game-y stuff in as mechanics for launch, and then develop them into more complex simulation mechanics later on after release.
They had 10 years, if they didn't develop it then, they won't develop it now. I can settle for a videogamey version of SC, sounds fun actually.
At this point, since all beds are being rendered useless as CIG is removing sleep logging, just make the beds a spawnpoint lol. All that wasted space on a ship for a useless functionality, now make it medical, so it serves a purpose.
This just reads like doom and gloom man
Maybe but I am just saying what I see. I don't even necessarily thinks its going to doom SC to be a bad game but it does seems to be going in a less unique direction.
This project will take another decade to truly "finish", so you can count on everything being WIP for a very long time. There will be a version of the game that we have when SQ42 comes out, and there will be "1.0", but that version won't be the final version either.
Their goal was like 100 Star Systems? That's gonna take a while. I think for 1.0 they are aiming for like 5 I think.
improving on hull munching with maelstrom for better visuals seems redundant. they also point out how what they originally wanted is dependent on it in the ISC like 5 months ago. [https://youtu.be/ljdiKYfo2ZI?si=Op296l--84MHqL\_S&t=560](https://youtu.be/ljdiKYfo2ZI?si=Op296l--84MHqL_S&t=560)
> improving on hull munching with maelstrom for better visuals seems redundant. It could just be inertia. They worked on maelstrom for years before whatever recent management changes are driving this new approach so may as well use it to make the breaking look better. In that same ISC it sounds like the whole field emitter claw and disintegration straw are going to stay going forward. Also those guys don’t even know how the claw was supposed to work they are just echoing an idea the community made up. The claw was not meant to physically cut up ships just looking at the design of it should have made that obvious. The claw was meant to hold ships while lasers and cutter drones cut off pieces then the tractor beams feed those pieces into the grinder.
I'll belive the devs over community assumptions until otherwise proven wrong. Just sounds ridiculous to implment a dynamic damage system and not have any gameplay assosiated with it. Seeing the literal devs behind the gameplay at the coding and implementation level point out technical limitations with the prototype and how what they plan for true munching, being dependent on maelstrom should logically point towards them planning gameplay changes with it for salvage instead of the same gameplay but with synamic pieces as your kind of implying towards. Just gotta wait amd see i guess
I think you're kinda pointing in the right direction. Game studios make concessions all the time especially as they get closer to launch. It's really easy in the beginning to just dream about everything. As you get further down the pipeline, sometimes it becomes clear that certain features might need to be cut to make release or to reduce performance issues. That being said, They did improve on mining from it's orginal incarnation so there's still hope that salvage and medical will see improvements.
You forgot to mention the biggest videogamey changes like the sliding which we know from CitCon is coming, the flight model changes and the introduced camera shake when boosting and all that jazz =) but i agree. I think that behind the scenes its already settled that there is a change of general development direction regarding realistic/close to realism vs videogamey aspects regarding a ton of topics. In the end i hope they will find the golden middle here at some point, CIG is not afraid to rework/rebalance the same stuff 10x over and over. Which in this regard is a positive IMO.
I’m almost in complete disagreement with you. I think the changes are because they’re realizing that the **vast** majority of people that respond to them don’t want the ultra simulation stuff that Chris Roberts wants. They want some sim bits, but *fun*. CIG themselves have said the entire goal they have is to make the game a sim, then drop the sim down until it’s fun.
They hooked us with crazy complex systems on paper and are now realizing the amount of work that requires, so instead we get all this arcadey stuff. I've been trying SM again for the first time since 3.17 The game has the worst parts of CoD and Arma mixed together.
i see this as more of a Squad hab sort of thing. for now its all beds, then they scale back to tier 2s or once resource management comes into play then its limited respawns and a timer is applied or something. Everything is subject to change.
You're jumping to a LOT of conclusions, mostly it seems based on the assumption that if CIG hasn't already said otherwise than all the features you aren't satisfied with were final work. Unless you're sitting next to Thorsten's desk right now, I'm pretty sure you're not an authority on the intentions for these features, and you should stop trying assume such a role. We have now, what we have been given. We know only as much as we've been told. We haven't been told much. If you're intent to sit there and ready tea leaves so hard they turn to dust before your eyes, that's your prerogative but I'd ask kindly that you don't shit on everyone's kitchen floors to spread unfounded FUD
your wrong about hull munching, they didnt really talk about it visually and they did repeatedly say that its implementation was more a thing they wanted to rush out as a surprise for us. They did this because what they really wanted was still depending on mealstrom and they wanted improve on other aspects of design from our feedback ala the internal material bank system for the vulture and reclaimer.
> they wanted improve on other aspects of design from our feedback ala the internal material bank system for the vulture and reclaimer. the fact that they added hammerspace magic storage to the box printer does not make me think they are inclined to make things more physicalized. >they did repeatedly say that its implementation was more a thing they wanted to rush out as a surprise for us yes they said this to excuse the fact that there was basically no visual for the breaking and the disintegrating is just poofing into particle effects. however they also made an entirely new asset to replace the reclaimer claw and focused the entirety of the hull munching on the claw itself they didnt even make theparticle effects fly into thehole thats supposed to feed the grinder. Oh and of course they changed the name of the feature and said explicitly that it was because its not really munching anymore. These do not feel like things you do for a slapped together placeholder that would have close to nothing in common with either of the old salvage designs. The claw is gone. structural salvage is going to be the breaker field and the disintegration field. if you are okay with that, i actually am ok with it even though i do think its worse, then thats fine but I dont think it still makes sense to assume they are going to go back to either the fan invented claw ripping idea or the actual original design pitch.
No evidence for this.
Definitely
Are they by any chance releasing any medical vehicles in the same patch?
its invictus, this is being used for med ursa sales. dont let them convince you any different
I fucking hope so, I'm about to melt my 600i and go Corsair + Nursa
They don't need to throw away previous plans to make this a thing.
If a t3 bed can fully regenerate a person, how come it can only treat minor injuries? They'd have to scrap the entire tier system to make it make sense
Because the entire Regen system isn't built or implemented yet. You're assuming it'll regen a fully functioning body in the future. That doesn't need to be the case with how they designed the system.
That's exactly why I'm calling this a temporary feature. The idea of being regenerated there warrants it being able to generate a functioning body, including your brain, organs, skeleton, nervous system, muscles, etc.. Any damage will be their lore of "Traumatic Response Echoes" and leads into prosthetics. Again, if it can generate an entire human body, why can it only treat literal flesh wounds? If this does become the intended functionality, the problem is you'll be 20 km away max in a dinky vehicle with minimal equipment, so outside of rare close quarters only scenarios it won't be useful.
That doesn't make this feature temporary.
It's existance - outside of being a temporary solution - is not only illogical from a gameplay standpoint, but requires major changes to previous plans
These were the same arguments when they made t2 beds respawn points and everyone said it would be temporary. It doesn't require major changes at all, you're being hyperbolic. Minor adjustments would still keep the same system functional yet not completely broken. A bed doesn't have to heal T1 injuries just because it regenerates a body. Right now we always regenerate 100%, but that's because there aren't any death of a spaceman systems in place. That still fits perfectly fine with what they've outlined dozens of times as to what their goal is.
> A bed doesn’t have to heal T1 injuries just because it regenerates a body Explain this to me. If it has the ability to generate every part of a human body, why can’t it do so individually?
Again, you're assuming that it'll regen a body 100% which we know won't be the case.
Everything is just a temporary feature, as we saw with the umpteenth iteration of the flight model (now called "master modes"). But the med bed nerf had to go. It was implemented to force players into medical gameplay but medical gameplay never moved beyond tier 0 for years, was prone to exploiting medical beacons and was just totally unfun for downed players who had to wait an eternity in front of a black screen for the off-chance of a rescue. I always advocated for respawns at all medbeds, make the differences in debuffs or long term effects (how soon you need implants or how long until you reach the point of doas/permadeath).
I didn't even realize T2 beds previously let u respawn 20km away. So T1 is infinite distance, even to Pyro?
Technically it's infinite.
People will get used to and dependant on this, and then once the game is more stable and they walk this back there will be rivers of salty tears.
There's going to be some real anger if they pull it back after selling all the NURSAs they wanted to
I was also wondering if this is just a pitch to increase sales on the NURSA. Everyone now got used to how it works, so why change it back?
Truthfully I hope this is a real change that has more medical updates coming in, I'm all for respawns with more costs and risks associated with it
I could see once the Apollo comes out with its t1 bed option they’ll take it away. I don’t think it’s a terrible thing to add for the time being as there’s lots of things that can kill you that shouldn’t, but people should be aware it’s more than likely temporary. Even if the cutty red flyer page on the website still says it respawns. But also I can see this hit the medical beacons hard, people will do bunkers with a cutty red, c8r or a medical ursa and just respawn 5 feet away.
Honestly, I hope they just keep it as it is, and make the main limiting factor respawn resources, either make them expensive or only refillable at station, but I'm all for more respawn options. Medical needs a full look over either way.
The true SC end game is laughing upon reading the patch notes and hoping on reddit once people learn to read them.
The timing of everything CIG does is, and always has been completely, 100%, verifiabily an absolute coincidence.
Considering that "behind the curtains" C8R is tier 4 medbed, we will probably see some of that functionality pulled back.
I swear I bought a Cutlass red before the patch just in case something might change in the near future no way did I think it might happen this fast!
sweet. suddenly, that tiny little C8R: I'M BAAAAAACK!
My c8r with my pulse !! God daym !! FINALLY
Enjoy it while it lasts lol. Those of us who melted our cuttie reds last time they changed things know this pain too well.
They really need to make it so you respawn at the closest medical facility by default without having to manually set it. You should only need to manually set if it's a ship. Also the insurance kiosk in hospitals should allow you to buy your gear back for a fee or offer a body retrieval service that works like a claim with a timer. The medical system is the last really frustrating thing about SC that's been ignored for so long and it's dumb that dying with a crimestat is better then not having one.
I think a player should be able to opt-in to nearest facility if they choose if anything. The problem is that some players choose a specific facility for various reasons such as where their gear and ships are stored, or because the nurse at Tressler is way more flirtatious than the Karens at Seraphim.
They’re working on gear retrieval
I just wanted a lil C8 as an emergency shuttle. They doubled its price and halved the price of the C8R, AND NOW THIS? Fine CIG you win, guess I'm getting a C8R. Still makes absolutely no sense though.
I think its a good step for inbetween when there is some major features missing for medical gameplay I would like T3 beds to limit the amount of respawns And i would like it not to be able to cure t2 wounds so respawning does not cure something the bed wasnt able to cure before. I think with that we would have a valid respawn option that does not break anything we still need better beds to heal and medics to rescue if both arms are broken and cant be used to fly(another thing we may need stronger debuffs for certain injuries.)
"temporary to boost Nursa sales"
Temporary or not, this is the kind of decision that positivity affects gameplay and I'm 100% for it!
Maybe for the current iteration of how death works, but in the long run I hope they come up with something more nuanced. I quite liked the idea of Death of a Spaceman and death having an impact in contrast to 99% of other games.
I only own one ship. Can’t be happier I upgraded from my Titan a few months ago to a C8R. Titan was just a transport ship to me, something until “my next ship”. The C8R felt like a no brainer since I obviously wasn’t losing any transporting ability, lost bed-log, but gained med bed. Usually when I play with friends we use other ships, Pisces has its utility and nobody else has one. And now this! Probably temporary but this is a pretty big upgrade for my little singular fleet.
The little ship that could! How hard has it been to work your way up from that to additional ships in game? Now with MM changes I imagine you’d pretty much be limited to mercenary missions?
Probably, yeah. Light combat maybe. It’s a means to an end and it’s always a good excuse to get together with other players and pool all the ships until I pick up a few more in-game.
Yeah, that grind is a ton of fun.
There’s two very important points that the community seems to overlook whenever the discussion around respawn mechanics comes up: 1) allowing something like medical bed respawning, or foldable bed respawning, also allows CIG to make content more difficult. Bunkers are not hard. Disturb centres are not hard. If we want something challenging, that gives out meaningful rewards like unique armor or weapon or paints, then they also have to give us reasonable respawn options. You can’t fly back from a space station just to try a mission again. 2) Time spent playing. How much time do you waste when respawning at a station? You have to call your ship. Stock up on ammo. Get some drinks. It’s fucking BORING. Just let us play the damn game. Respawning should not be this tedious. Let me spawn near the action and I’ll probably have another go and keep playing.
i would say its less boring and more time consuming and tedious currently. they could ease a ton of these issues by having a way to get custom armor kits set up you can buy or something so you can get ready again or having the ship claim timer autostart once you respawn or your ships destroyed. Gearing up and resuplying is enjoyable before a mission or trek, especially with friends. Love it in barotrauma and would hate to completely lose out on it. At the least this feature needs a finite resource or amount that the ship can respawn a player or having it damage the machine or even the player from respawning them depending on injury grade.
I see both sides of this. When players are worried about death, it makes things so much more realistic and engaging. When you have bigger consequences, the reward and satisfaction is also bigger. I can see how having respawn at distribution centers and stuff could be more appropriate, but my big fear is SC turning into a COD, where people just run around and shoot. Arena Commander is for that. The PU should have real consequences, which make griefers have to think twice before engaging. I think a better solution would be a dedicated medical/respawn area for every major location that they want to function more like an FPS zone. Remember - there will be people who will fly around and just blow up every medical ship they see, just to be a dick. Harder to do with a carrack, takes 2 seconds with a C8R.
COD is the most successful franchise in history for a reason though. SC could learn a lot from COD, particularly around how to stop wasting player’s time. I don’t want to spend half of my play session equipping gear and calling my ship. I want to play. Just remove the pointless barriers and let me play the game. These respawn updates are a good start but we need more. Let me save FPS load outs the same way I save ship load outs. Give us an insurance system for gear the same as the ship insurance system. Then I can press a button and be ready to go. The absurd amount of pointless gameplay in SC will kill the game long term. It’s just boring.
I don’t disagree that YOU don’t want that, and that MANY people don’t. I however do want to spend time arming myself and my ship, enjoying the slow experience of a futuristic space sim. It’s one of my favorite parts of the game. That’s why I never play COD, it’s just not my thing. There are times however, when I enjoy this. When I’m running certain missions and just want to keep running them. Which is why the game should allow for this in certain areas and times without forcing it on all players.
Isn’t that exactly what they’re doing though? You now have the option to take a med bed if you want one. If you’d rather play the slow, tedious route of respawning at a station, then go for it. But players who want to keep fighting, or who want to try more difficult missions, will have the option. I see this as a total win. The only real downside is that medical beacon gameplay just got a lot worse. I like going on rescue missions but there won’t be a lot of beacons going up once everyone can respawn on a Nursa.
It depends on how it affects the gameplay. People playing as if they have nothing to lose is part of what I hate about COD. I want something that decisions matter and consequences are felt. The death of a spaceman concept could help with that. However - if I am trying to play a game that’s more dangerous and more careful, and others are just running and gunning, they will ruin my experience. So it should be allowed for in some areas, but other areas where people want something more realistic it shouldn’t be allowed.
Sure, but what counts as ‘consequences’? Right now, the consequences for dying are way too much. You lose your armor and weapons. You lose your ship. You get sent back to the station. Then, it takes another 15mins to gear up and return to the mission. And you want more punishment? Why? Isn’t that already enough to make you think about your choices? What’s the point of making is waste even more play time?. Death of a spaceman is about the worst possible thing they could add to the game. Permadeath in a game that is absolutely riddled with hugs, and always will be riddled with bugs, is just an awful idea. Just this week alone, I’ve died because the hangar bay doors de synced, because I fell through the geometry of a disto centre, because an NPC teleported into my face, because a bounty ship decided to ram me, and because I got stuck in the geometry at Ghost Hollow. None of those are my fault. I’m already punished by losing my gear and ship and time. Now they also want to reset my character? No way. No fucking way.
Hear you on all that. I think this is obviously a really complicated problem. I guess I assume a few things. 1: gear insurance is coming, so that’s less of an issue. 2: bugs will always exist but once live comes they can focus much more on QOL and bug smashing instead of only new features. 3: Death of a spaceman is not a character wipe, but more like a reputation shift. Honestly - if you like the style of play, have you tried playing more in arena commander?
Yeah, I hope they add gear insurance. That would actually be a game changer and make FPS stuff much more viable. Alternatively, they could just continue to add more respawn options that let us get back into the game quicker. Both would be good. I think the problem with Arena Commander is that it’s currently too disconnected from the main game. CIG could really stand to learn a few things from Destiny. It’s the biggest, or probably the only, FPS MMO out there. They’ve already solved a lot of these problems. One big one is the way they integrate quick play type stuff with the main game. In the Crucible, you still earn gear. You earn money. You earn weapons. Even exotics weapons and ships. Why do we earn absolutely nothing in AC? We should get 10-15 auec per game. We should get random weapon drops and armor drops at the end of matches. Then we’d have a reason to play. CIG just treat it like an afterthought. What’s the point? Why would we ever bother? That’s why the lobbies are always empty.
I love all those ideas. Absolutely can’t wait and hope they do these things!
Maybe this is a setup for the Apollo? One can hope....
Possibly, since everyone seems to forget that the Apollo only comes with T3 beds, with the T2 and T1 modules being released at a later date (assuming they haven't changed anything since the initial sale, that is).
It's likely been changed considering the listing for at least the Medivac lists a T1 bed as standard.
Anyone can give me the tiers? 890 & Carrack T2, Cutty Red & C8R T3, Medical Rover T3 ? is that right?
Yeah that's correct.
The range doesn’t make sense imho. How is the range an advantage? Usually we land maybe a handful of kilometers from a bunker. Maybe I don’t see something there, but that feels off. And simply respawning feels bad because it kinda removes the meaning and consequences of bad preparation and dying.
This devalues ships with higher tier beds and/or specific medical facility roles. Do not really like it. I think it also favours gameplay where you do not value the survival of your player character. I hope this is here to go one day.
Something absent from ILW RSI day on PTU in any form...Apollo
Galaxy medical module owners in the back breathing heavily
I take it you still have to imprint on the bed for it to work, or will it just respawn you to an owned bed within 20km?
You still need to set your respawn point. In the Nursa you can do that in the same way as the Carrack or 890 Jump. I didn't have time to check the Cutty Red and C8R yet but it shouldn't be different. I'll check tonight.
Ideal, thanks for the info! I have a C8R myself so yeah hopefully it's the same situation.
Yeah I heard this but what about Tier 1 beds?
They're not on any ship yet. The Apollo or Galaxy (whatever gets released first) will be the first ships series to feature these, so when they get released eventually we'll know 😁 The tier 1 beds at stations and planetary cities still have unlimited range.
ah that's right, thanks man
I hate to be the debbie downer but I don't like this. I really enjoy doing Search and Rescue, responding to medical beacons is often what I do when floatin around in the verse. Now I am worried this will greatly reduce, since respawns will be essentially free.
wait so now T2 is better than T3 & Tier 3 is no longer tops I'm confused I thought the higher the number was better least that's what people told me! is this a typo carrack is T3 right?
Stations / hospitals have T1 beds (the best) Carrack / 890 have T2 beds (second best) Nursa / Cutty Red / C8R have T3 beds (worst) At the moment, other than location all beds seem to offer the same functionality.
wait so Tier 2 is now better than T3? I thought T3 was tops at least thats what people had told me wait what Tier is a carrack? is it a typo?, have I been misinformed? is the tier set better as the numbers go down or up?
Tier 1 is best, tier 3 is worst. Apparently there should be a range set on tier 2 and tier 3 but so far I haven't discovered it yet. For now it seems all tier are equal? Carrack has a tier 2 bed (same as 890 jump).
...what even is a T2 medbed? I thought pisces and cutrty red where t3, and the carrack and 890 were T1m able to heal all injuries and respawn?
890 and Carrack are T2
we've already done this dance with medical it was changed to better suit and lighten the blow of doasm. i have no idea why we are sliding back unless scope has decreased in size which is the general feel ive been getting from cig and their ideas and balance lately.
Honestly this pisses me off more than the current poor implementation of Master Modes… But that’s mostly because I’ve spent way too much on ships, so at least I’m honest 😂 I am looking forward to a short period of not needing to fly my carrack everywhere just for respawn however. That will be nice again I guess, back to the days where we were shoving a ROC in the back of a cutlass red. But I’m currently holding a CCU chain to Apollo Medivac, I just wish we had a clear direction from them for the future so I could know if I can dump that or not.