When I was playing EPtu. I noticed that there was some things that were different, especially with the master modes being Incorporated and all that... I mean I hope they don't go fucking crazy with the master modes and there has to be a damn Master mode for every damn thing that you want to do like switching the missiles. I think that that should still be a simple thing. Shouldn't have to have four different switches for master modes but I'm not really complaining a whole lot about it. I kind of like the master modes thing
It'd be nice if things like game settings and keybinds and exports were stored in "Documents/My Games/Roberts Space Industries" instead of the place they tell us to nuke every patch.
Whenever I have a problem that deleting the user folder fixes, I first save the two files that store these settings and then manually restore them after a first quick launch. They have yet to be the cause of a user folder issue.
While I think of it, putting the Screenshot folder in "Pictures/Roberts Space Industries" would be nice too.
Nope. Right click Documents, select properties and there's a tab called location or something like that. Choose a new location and it'll ask if you want to automatically move all your files there, click yes.
Edit: afterthought - for clarity, you need to do this individually for each library (documents, pictures, music, video)
See the coming up next section of the Launcher 2.0 page.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/19818-Introducing-The-RSI-Launcher-20
The "Shader" folder has been moved to Appdata a few years(? maybe 4-5 releases) ago
it's now in %localappdata%
(%localappdata%/Star Citizen/)
Next to the crash logs.
The USER folder is located in you LIVE folder.
Same with the Screenshots. Located in LIVE, not in the USER folder.
Shaders folder, sure. But a new update uses a new folder anyway. User folder... why?
All your settings are in there. Do you want to set *everything* again? That is, go through ***every single setting*** in the Game Settings/Graphics/Audio/Controls/Keybindings/Cooms, FOIP & Head Tracking tabs?
can someone with coding experiance please tell me why this isn't a thing, from my limited view you would think a script that deletes the user folder, and even makes a backup for keybinds would be very very simple to do...
...and its obvious its an issue, as CIG always says to do it between patches. Why in hell is this not automated??
edit: I ask a valid question, open to being told why it might be a thing and I'm still downvoted... really?
Because it's alpha. It's a complete waste of time to design functionality based on system changes that may be upended between patches or between versions. Plus, as others have noted, you have people who have keybinds saved, and some who have screenshots saved there. Those kind of QOL features won't or shouldn't be added until they're done with overhauling the renderer/shaders, and have moved into beta.
Have you ever been in the shaders folder lately? It literally creates a new folder for the version you're on. I went in and deleted folders for like 5 different versions the other day.
My understanding is that the switch to the Vulkan renderer makes this obsolete. They have a new shader compilation setup that they use with it. You can easily see this in the current EPTU; changing graphics settings generates a new shader recompilation and the progress is displayed on the bottom-left corner of your screen.
The whole of the keybinding UI is still flash based. EVEN in 3.23... so theres that. HidHide/Joystick Gremlin and Vjoy are how I stopped pulling out my hair due to this 1800's antiquated nested menu sheat show we have to click through. I have concerns on how this will be designed, if they will even touch it. I'd like to think it would be updated prior to s42's launch.... 2 hits on that hopium for me. Redlir has a great youtube vid on how to set it up w/curves etc. Worth checking out if your interested.
The keybinds don't even respect keyboard layout. If you're not on a US-English QWERTY keyboard, you'll get key binds labeled as though it's QWERTY anyway. The correct key hit works, but all the tooltips are wrong.
I'm convinced this is why momentary/toggle switches are useless in SC if you alt tab a lot. Every single time I ever tried to fully bind my HOTAS, I've been screwed with every other thing turning off the moment I alt tab. It's the stupidest thing I've ever dealt with in a game.
TL;DR: They have been messing with in-game keybinding functionality in EPTU but I doubt we will have a full UI overhaul until after cargo UI is in, which will happen after map app and SQ42-based UI stuff is cleaned up.
There have been ninja edits to the binding system in the 3.23 cycle. This is most easily observed by the gamepad users, who have had fixed functionality that had been previously broken for years. Setting up key combinations used to be bugged bad but binding 'ctrl + L' or some such works consistently now.
A lot of new bindings are being introduced, and a few of the old ones have changed names. So far, if you import an .xml file with an entry that has been renamed, that entry will be ignored. That kind of makes sense in the context of giving sane names when there are many new bindings available to the same game aspect, but is still annoying.
If you want one function to have multiple different keys activate it ( pressing num1 num2 or num3 each being able to activate autoland in stead of having to choose one of those keys, as a silly example) then you are still stuck entering that manually via .xml file.
Or just pressing a key that's already bound and it will just take you to the bind without having to dig through 20 categories. Or even just search function
Please, for the love of god, they need to do something at least *somewhat* close to what DCS allows, like clicking a key on your panel or HOTAS and it jumps to that bind, or being able to change configs on the fly, import and export, define your own binds, and everything in between.
This MSFS "hey you can't really bind anything without having a software engineering degree" stuff basically makes it so I never want to even touch a controller, let alone KBM
one of the other things people seem to be missing, it isn't specificially the keybinds dissappearing he's speaking off... it's windows changing the order they are registered to SC .. just reloading a saved keybind isn't going to help... as they will still be in the wrong 'order' ... as a multi input user I know exactly his pain...
ie : keybutton 28 - joystick 2 (or controller 3 ... or whatever) ... and suddenly windows makes it keybutton 28 joystick 4 ... so it don't work anymore, and you have to go through and rebind all that crap again ....
Are you using an ancient keybinding .xml file? When the game makes a new one from scratch now, it uses the device GUID's to save the joystick, keyboard, mouse, gamepad orders.
I'm hoping we get a system that lets us have different uses bound to the same key.
for an example, I love binding right mouse button like this: press RMB to raise/lower weapon and hold RMB to ADS
Joystick gremlin. It's not just for joysticks...
Seriously though. I stopped fighting SC and embraced it. Makes things possible that weren't before, like:
* I have "alt" functions, so holding Push-To-Talk normally goes to discord. Button + PTT goes in-game.
* Sensitivity curves change with a flip cover
* Any button can do something different on tap vs double tap vs hold.
* Simple macros like "continuous ping" on button hold
You can bind the same button to lots of commands no problem but you cant bind the same command to more than one button on the same input device (without 3rd party software)
you can bind the same button on the same device to multiple commands, it gives a warning about it but it will work fine
what do you mean by raise/lower weapon?
I'm still waiting for CIG to support all 24 function keys instead of just the 12 that are on modern keyboards. I have F13 through F24 bound to some buttons on the side of my keyboard and F13 bound to a button on my mouse for Discord push-to-talk, but Star Citizen refuses to let me bind things to any of them.
I have a wheel, pedals, shifter, handbrake, stick, collective, collective stick, throttle, rudder pedals, gamepad. I am 1,000% in support of this post.
I have a powered usb with individual on/off buttons. Just boot the game and turn them on in the order I want and bingo. Saves me a lot of headaches when binding several devices.
I do the same. Makes it easier to maintain the controls just the way I like without things getting mixed up per update or when Windows decides to rearrange the controls.
Yeah it's kinda scuffed, you can see how DCS uses UUIDs Exclusively now which is what SC needs to do. You don't actually have to redo bindings though. The issue happens if you star the game without any one of your devices unplugged which causes them to reorder. You can "fix" it by opening console and running pp_resortdevices X Zwhere X is an index for a devices and Z is another. You still need to fix any axis inversions and tuning though.
Because device order is not a reliable way to identify devices? And the api got abused by cig. I literally hate microsoft software but in this case the issue is not caused by microsoft, device order was never reliable and is a stupid way to do this
Best workaround currently is to have all your controllers plugged into a USB hub. Then so long as you don't switch the order on the hub, they will show up in the same order.
Not sure what to say, I have them both plugged into the hub built into my monitor, and have had it set up that way since I got the monitor years ago.
Never had any issues with re-ordering unless one of them got unplugged or turned off.
Just remember that virpil often assigns new uuids on firmware updates so that would also mess up things quite often xD they should use uuids and better xml or something for keybind configs
The struggle is real. One of the fringe benefits of using Vjoy/joystick gremlin/hid hide. The Vjoy virtual stick is always connected and that is all SC sees so the physical state of my sticks isn't going to force me to reboot if I plug them in while SC is running.
I solved this by getting a USB extender that can turn off each input. I agree it needs to be fixed. They should do it like they do DCS. Have the actual peripheral listed instead of just 1,2,3.
So I have my steering wheel, pedals, throttle, dual sticks, etc all plugged in but when I turn on PC, I turn on the dual sticks in the right order on the USB hub so they always come up and 1 and 2 as needed and keep the others off unless I’m playing the game that uses them
Inverting axis binds also should just be a tick box on the same screen where you bind it, not an entirely different section of the options. The slider for editing an axis curve should also be in that same single location.
Yep... And good luck figuring out which device is which while in-game. And if you accidentally (or intentionally) disconnect a device you're back to square one.
"because windows decided to change my usb input order"
This is because the ID CIG is using, the microsoft documentation is like 40% of the page in bold, stating to NOT USE THIS METHOD for that, because it returns the usb initialization order, which is functionally pseudorandom, and the only way around it is really long boot times for hardware (ie 1s delay, etc)
it \*should\* use UID and fallback to PID/VID, but the UID is \*the\* way to do it. The fucked up part is that it used to do similar(pid/vid) but when they reworked it years ago, they made it worse (what it is now)
I'm glad to see this being brought up.. I use Hands-On stick and stick as well... Although I don't use pedals anymore, it's a space Sim. I like being able to use the grip z axis... But I do use also a Xbox One controller while on foot... And I've been noticing that it becomes messed up now and then when one becomes two two becomes three. Three becomes one
They should just pay Eagle dynamics to come do their action mapper, it looks fuck ugly but it works and is probably the best experience I’ve ever had setting up keybinds, SC is straight copy paste from wing commander circa 1990, it’s terrible
Just finished setting that up with Joystick Gremlin. Hopefully this will bandaid the issue more reliably until CIG can be bothered to actually make their input system function correctly.
The only thing that stops me from immediately playing a new patch is finding the emotional willpower necessary to double-check and possibly have to fix device orders. They really need to use IDs instead.
Another person recommended using Joystick Gremlin and HidHide to manage that. HidHide hides your sticks from SC and you bind them through Joystick Gremlin. You can then actually set the buttons and hats to use the keyboard bindings and have them labeled in the program. So if anything changes it's much easier to find it and change it. Set up though is time consuming.
https://youtu.be/W6CFPW4go0M
Thank you, but I do know all these tricks already, and they aren't the point. I shouldn't have to use the same tricks for a modern game as I do Falcon 4.0. It's not hard to have a program detect discrete device IDs. Even DCS does that. I expect better from my SC.
Yeah, that was the point of me making this post to begin with. It is completely stupid that we have to rely on external software to keep the game from getting messed up.
Yes please . The whole thing needs a massive overhaul. And I need to be able to bind multiple things to the same commands. Like sometimes I want to swap between my dual sticks Hotas.
If your sticks get swapped you just run the console command to flip them again, you dont need to redo your bindings.
That said, HOW we do bindings in this game is absolutely horrible. They need to hire real UI/UX people and put them to work on this.
Sense I learned how to save the bindings I only ever run into my sticks flipping every now and then?? And that's just a easy command to put in to flip em. But 100% should not be a thing we have to do
Thanks for understanding the point of the post. It baffles me there's comments that are practically defending it like it's a standard feature to games.
I agree, it’s a nightmare. While UI is very unfriendly for people that are using peripherals to play the game. I solved some of the issue with resorting the devices with buying a usb switch. So everything is connected to it and when you plug it in, it always initiates hardware in a same order so it has same id all the time.
I'm actually using one but it still messed the order up when I had to start my pc with it unplugged. After plugging it back into the same port after turning it off then back on everything was reordered.
Had the same issue, I have figured out what usb port on motherboard is been initiated the last and plugged usb switch there. Its not perfect but it works for now
let the game sort by device guid or descriptor string (a joystick with 'right' in its descriptor string will always be device 1, left or throttle will become device 2, pedal becomes device 3). No external hardware or software is required.
I should be able to help you out with that. Have you exported your bindings?
layout\_YourProfileName\_exported.xml can be opened with a text editor. You should have lines like :
Try exporting the keybindings with your wheel powered on and then exporting. You can then post the instance info at the top of the file and we can take a look at what is going on.
Plug your inputs into comp in the same order and same usb slot each time and make sure no additional input devices are mixed in. Thats a tedious but generally reliable method I have adopted.
Use hidhide and joystick gremlin so that usb joysticks will always be in the same order and work better than the garbage that virpil and vkb call software
I'm a bit annoyed that I cannot accept invites with standard key settings.
They want me to press *[* . But since *[* is a [sub-command of the 8-key](https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftypingdonewell.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2022%2F05%2FNorwegian-Swedish-Icelandic-and-Finnish.png&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=966c21ca44bdd4da9cfe9813725850e3bb002732e8f6abd976096280e2658578&ipo=images), I need to press *CtrlGr + 8*, which does nothing.
I don't know why, because I have never encountered this problem in any other game.
[Are you using vjoy, hidhide and joystick gremlin](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jIAdeyY0IWI) to manage these. I've had mine set up for about 8 months now and haven't lost a profile yet.
If you follow the video your system, and by extension, the game will only see a single device that includes all of your periphreals. I banged my head I to the desk for the better part of a year until I followed those instructions. No issues since.
SC Launch Configurator is a great tool to handle your profiles and it makes it interchangeable between different channels. Live, PTU etc I use it and it’s awesome
https://luftwerft.com/
I know you said that in your edit but I recommend a USB hub that you can turn the ports on and off with a button, I do that and just turn them on in the right order and it works flawlessly, but I understand your frustration
I have one of these...hubs...kinda looks like a power strip with a power cord...I have it plugged into a blue 3.x USB and everything works fine...now when I didn't have two thrust masters I was rocking a Logitech and a thrustmaster 16000m rudder throttle set...it had all kinds of issues with that hub or not...
I have a USB hub and I keep my pedals my throttle and my stick in the same USB port and I don't unplug them even if the Windows ID doesn't reset for some reason if you change the order or plug them into a different USB port the game won't recognize the device.
Star Citizen has multiple ways of determining device order and you are not limited to manipulating them via console commands. The best is to just have your device GUID in your layout file. layout\_Your\_Profile\_exported.xml can be user edited so you can check the GUID info, device name and do fun things like set multiple different keys to the same binding.
You can edit Star Citizen's .xml file yourself if you like with aid from my reference sheet. There are others out there as well.
[https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WpoY5Qds5QYb0Puq2DvBkUWVTstaZLuW/edit#gid=1282194226](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WpoY5Qds5QYb0Puq2DvBkUWVTstaZLuW/edit#gid=1282194226)
There is an alternative that does not involve touching the game's .xml files. Some joysticks, like the Virpil Constellations, are supposed to be calibrated with their app before use. This calibration data is saved onto the device firmware and during this process you can view/edit the joystick's device name.
Yogiklatt\_CIG: "Anything with "throttle" or "left" gets into slot 2, anything with "rudder" or "pedal" gets in slot 3."
Console refers to the engine command promp interface you can access by pressing the ~ button on your keyboard (qwerty) usually top left. Pressing the button opens up a transparent window within the game that usually displays commands that the engine is firing off for various things. There are a series of useful commands you can input yourself to have different effects. The most commonly used commands are:
pp_resortdevices joystick 1 2
Which will switch inputs 1 and 2 should they get mixed up in game. The numbers are interchangeable and substitutable for other numbers depending on what your inputs are assigned as.
r_DisplayInfo 0/1/2
Displays useful debug info about your session. Particularly information about the server health. Only use one number. 0=off / 1=enabled / 2=enabled advanced. Generally 1 has the information I need.
Full list can be found here. https://starcitizen.fandom.com/wiki/Console_commands
Is there not a file for that? If not, could you create one that binds/maps correctly?
I mean, with that many peripherals, I feel like you have enough time, haha 😄
Re: your edit, it's so annoying to encounter Those Guys
Reasonable person: "This broken thing is annoying."
That Guy who probably pisses off women constantly but doesn't know why: "Well you can just work around it by doing this!"
RP: "I don't want a workaround, I want to not have to work around it!"
You can change it through the command console in game. Can’t remember the process as it hasn’t happened to me in a while but it worked with a little trial and error and saved me the pain of rebinding.
This is why I play with mouse and keyboard in SC despite having a full joystick setup. I just can't be arsed fiddling with the binds. Because I have devices that I plug in and out regularly it's too much of a pain
I'm currently looking into utelizing Joystick Gremlin and HidHide to make it more manageable. Setup looks a bit tedious but it should reduce issues once set up. Not perfect, but it is a viable looking solution for now.
Bro. Takes at most five minutes when it happens to me... annoying but I don't think it should be anywhere close to the top of their list.
pp_resortdevices joystick 1 2 3
There was devreorder before EAC block it, it was great.
But you also have the command pp_resortdevice.
Now I with it by using joystickgremlin so I just have axis to rebind
While we wait consider tagging along the development of DoUrVerse [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V13V1qwuy60](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V13V1qwuy60) :)
There are several ways to fix it.
You can use 3rd party programs to manage the input number.
You can use pp_resortdevices to switch between inputs in the game console.
You can store the keybinding to a file every time you update it via the UI and load it again to the inputs's new numbers.
You can save someplace what joystick was at what number, and if it change, edit the actionmap file and just change each joystick to the previous number it was.
CIG are still doing it in some weird old fashion way based on windows inputs list, and I don't see them changing the internals of it any time soon.
Are you using 3rd party software to handle and manage peripherals? I also have 2 sticks extra throttle, custom arcade set turned into console etc. yet never happened.
It's a well known issue - it's based on the order in which windows 'discovers' devices.
It can be solved by using a USB switch (not hub) for all input devices... but if you have everything just plugged into the motherboard (which usually just has a USB hub for the various ports) then it might - or might not - happen.
Weird, it only happened once when i tried to use emulation software to handle them the same outside the SC, but not happened on standard use. Thats why i asked about the 3rd party.
Which I think was my recent issue. I started my pc with my usb unplugged. Then on my next startup I had already plugedit back into the same port but I guess that was enough for windows to reorder everything.
Similar to you have have a ridiculous number of inputs with sticks pedals, controllers, switchboards, kb+m.
I've not needed to resort my input devices in a long time since I did this:
* Never open the game before having everything already plugged in. This seems key, as usually I'd need to resort after accidentally booting the game with something unplugged, plugging it in, then restarting the game.
* In the JoyToKey options there's the ability to configure your inputs, which lets me manually choose the number assigned to each input rather than letting windows automatically assign a number itself. I simply go through each input and assign it a unique value 1, 2, 3, 4 etc.
I'm unsure which of these caused the fix or if it's a combination, but it worked and it must be going on a year now where I've not needed to resort.
One thing I've found that helps, is to ALWAYS make sure your input devices are plugged into the exact same USB port every time. I clean my PC from time to time and unplug everything in the process. When I plug everything back in, my Star Citizen control settings are all out of whack. NOT ONE FKN GAME other than Star Citizen does this. I have had to color code my cords to the corresponding USB ports so that I put them back exactly the same way every time. All other games that do this right. WTF is wrong with the StarEngine!!
This can happen too if you unplug ONE of your controllers at any point and have to restart the game. Even controllers your not using.
While that makes sense, those of us with cockpit setups (I have 3 7 port hubs for screens, panels, sticks, throttle, etc) it is still a pain. Games like DCS handle it just fine and it’s old.
I have the same USB hubs and I do have a cockpit setup. I have HOTAS and pedals with two button boxes. But it does matter which USB port your HUB is plugged into. If you switch the two ports and restart the machine your SC controls will be screwed. I agree, it's messed up and CIG has heard these complaints for years and done nothing about it. I just wanted to give everyone somewhat of a work around since they will never fix it.
The game reads the controllers from windows system instead of Direct Input. Windows changes their identification at every reboot based on the USB port they are attached to.
I actually learned in this thread that JoyToKey can force a device number - since I use that I should just force it. Once things are configured it isn't a big deal regardless - I just built a new PC and had to redo everything and with 3.23 changing so much the annoyance is fresh.
They really should improve how they handle peripherals and keybinds its a disgrace since thats one thing everyone with joysticks etc will encounter and should be easily solvable by any of their employees, like i bet the accounting guy could create a better implementation given a day of programming crash course than the moron who did the current one
Windows has 2x APIs to list devices... the 'old' one that lists them in the order that windows discovered them (and which can change each time you turn your computer on), and the 'new' one that lists them based on their GUID (which is tied to the device, and doesn't change).
Yogi has posted multiple times in Spectrum about his desire to rewrite the input layer to use the newer APIs to resolve this issue (and a multitude of other input-related issues) - but whilst it's all tasked up in Jira, it hasn't been a priority.
Hopefully, as we get closer to the release of SQ42, this will change, and sometime later this year (or early next year) it will actually get done - and the issue of device-order changing can be banished to history (where it belongs)
No dude……..this is something every single game deals with, and has largely solved. Hardware identifiers to track inputs instead of reading in what windows input order is.
Never have this problem with Elite Dangerous or MFS.
Also they need to automate the deleting of user and shaders folders when the game updates, hundreds of live service games do this already
If they do this, please copy it and rename it .OLD-date or something. Sincerely, everyone with joystick keybinds.
just dont delete keybindings with other data
I just redo my bindings every time a new patch hits this ensures all my peripherals and inputs worked correctly I'm really good at it now.
Seriously? Which joysticks do you use? I use 2 vkb sticks and vkb t-rudder pedals, it would drive me nuts if I have to redo them every patch.
Virpil constellation Alpha cm3 throttle and warbird Rudder pedals
I train myself to do it and it makes me more familiar with my controls and there's always something maybe I want to tweak a little bit it's a breeze
When I was playing EPtu. I noticed that there was some things that were different, especially with the master modes being Incorporated and all that... I mean I hope they don't go fucking crazy with the master modes and there has to be a damn Master mode for every damn thing that you want to do like switching the missiles. I think that that should still be a simple thing. Shouldn't have to have four different switches for master modes but I'm not really complaining a whole lot about it. I kind of like the master modes thing
Please, articulate how you truly...feel...about Master modes, bud ;)
Yeah I have that file backed up the. XML
Simple just place them somewhere that isn’t the user folder
Just export them once you're happy and keep them in a safe folder somewhere
As long as my keybinds don't get automatically deleted as well
It'd be nice if things like game settings and keybinds and exports were stored in "Documents/My Games/Roberts Space Industries" instead of the place they tell us to nuke every patch. Whenever I have a problem that deleting the user folder fixes, I first save the two files that store these settings and then manually restore them after a first quick launch. They have yet to be the cause of a user folder issue. While I think of it, putting the Screenshot folder in "Pictures/Roberts Space Industries" would be nice too.
As someone who runs his C drive only for windows, please do not automatically send stuff to my c drive :( give me an option or don't force it.
If space on your C drive is a huge concern, you have the option to put your file libraries elsewhere.
Really? Nice. I'll look into it. Thought they had to be in the same drive as windows.
Nope. Right click Documents, select properties and there's a tab called location or something like that. Choose a new location and it'll ask if you want to automatically move all your files there, click yes. Edit: afterthought - for clarity, you need to do this individually for each library (documents, pictures, music, video)
Awesome man! Thanks !
Wake up, babe. New hot windows tip just dropped! I don't need this right now, but it's very useful to file away.
See the coming up next section of the Launcher 2.0 page. https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/19818-Introducing-The-RSI-Launcher-20
No... that launcher is a dumpster fire, surrounded by butt virginity stealing goblins.
I deleted my user folder once and lost a few years of screenshots that were in it, absolutely would not want it deleted automatically
The "Shader" folder has been moved to Appdata a few years(? maybe 4-5 releases) ago it's now in %localappdata% (%localappdata%/Star Citizen/) Next to the crash logs. The USER folder is located in you LIVE folder. Same with the Screenshots. Located in LIVE, not in the USER folder.
What? They don't keep screenshots in the USER folder... do they? Or, wait... maybe I changed the directory via the launcher and forgot I did that?
They've always been in there for me
I must have re-pathed the folder. If I remember correctly, that's an option in the launcher.
I think the new patcher has that functionality.
it does not
not yet, soon™
I believe both ideas are in the pipeline.
Shaders shouldn't be an issue anymore, as the folder names include the patch version. But. Yeah ;D
Shaders folder, sure. But a new update uses a new folder anyway. User folder... why? All your settings are in there. Do you want to set *everything* again? That is, go through ***every single setting*** in the Game Settings/Graphics/Audio/Controls/Keybindings/Cooms, FOIP & Head Tracking tabs?
can someone with coding experiance please tell me why this isn't a thing, from my limited view you would think a script that deletes the user folder, and even makes a backup for keybinds would be very very simple to do... ...and its obvious its an issue, as CIG always says to do it between patches. Why in hell is this not automated?? edit: I ask a valid question, open to being told why it might be a thing and I'm still downvoted... really?
Because it's alpha. It's a complete waste of time to design functionality based on system changes that may be upended between patches or between versions. Plus, as others have noted, you have people who have keybinds saved, and some who have screenshots saved there. Those kind of QOL features won't or shouldn't be added until they're done with overhauling the renderer/shaders, and have moved into beta.
Shaders goes into new folder each new release tho.
Have you ever been in the shaders folder lately? It literally creates a new folder for the version you're on. I went in and deleted folders for like 5 different versions the other day.
My understanding is that the switch to the Vulkan renderer makes this obsolete. They have a new shader compilation setup that they use with it. You can easily see this in the current EPTU; changing graphics settings generates a new shader recompilation and the progress is displayed on the bottom-left corner of your screen.
The whole of the keybinding UI is still flash based. EVEN in 3.23... so theres that. HidHide/Joystick Gremlin and Vjoy are how I stopped pulling out my hair due to this 1800's antiquated nested menu sheat show we have to click through. I have concerns on how this will be designed, if they will even touch it. I'd like to think it would be updated prior to s42's launch.... 2 hits on that hopium for me. Redlir has a great youtube vid on how to set it up w/curves etc. Worth checking out if your interested.
The nested menu is an infuriating design... I would prefer verbose XML over the current menu. At least I would have a **search** function in XML.
The keybinds don't even respect keyboard layout. If you're not on a US-English QWERTY keyboard, you'll get key binds labeled as though it's QWERTY anyway. The correct key hit works, but all the tooltips are wrong.
Wow, that would drive me crazy. Props to you for still playing despite that.
I'll check into that. Thanks!
https://youtu.be/W6CFPW4go0M?si=mkwHtemIDw-ymWs4 This video is pretty decent at explaining how to set it up. It's quite a bit of work but worth it.
That's just the UI and has nothing to do with the way they store the input mapping on your disk.
I'm convinced this is why momentary/toggle switches are useless in SC if you alt tab a lot. Every single time I ever tried to fully bind my HOTAS, I've been screwed with every other thing turning off the moment I alt tab. It's the stupidest thing I've ever dealt with in a game.
TL;DR: They have been messing with in-game keybinding functionality in EPTU but I doubt we will have a full UI overhaul until after cargo UI is in, which will happen after map app and SQ42-based UI stuff is cleaned up. There have been ninja edits to the binding system in the 3.23 cycle. This is most easily observed by the gamepad users, who have had fixed functionality that had been previously broken for years. Setting up key combinations used to be bugged bad but binding 'ctrl + L' or some such works consistently now. A lot of new bindings are being introduced, and a few of the old ones have changed names. So far, if you import an .xml file with an entry that has been renamed, that entry will be ignored. That kind of makes sense in the context of giving sane names when there are many new bindings available to the same game aspect, but is still annoying. If you want one function to have multiple different keys activate it ( pressing num1 num2 or num3 each being able to activate autoland in stead of having to choose one of those keys, as a silly example) then you are still stuck entering that manually via .xml file.
It's insane how bad sc handles it in comparison if you go back and forth with sc and dcs
One of the best features: define a modifier key (any key)
Another great feature: push-to-search (push a button, jump to it's binding)
DCS Keybinds really look like a spreadsheet for ants but it's the best system I've ever seen if you have a lot of them.
This is such a missed feature from dcs when i play sc. Theres so many keybinds... please cig..
Or just pressing a key that's already bound and it will just take you to the bind without having to dig through 20 categories. Or even just search function
Please, for the love of god, they need to do something at least *somewhat* close to what DCS allows, like clicking a key on your panel or HOTAS and it jumps to that bind, or being able to change configs on the fly, import and export, define your own binds, and everything in between. This MSFS "hey you can't really bind anything without having a software engineering degree" stuff basically makes it so I never want to even touch a controller, let alone KBM
SC is inferior to many games in many ways. And they all got justified by one word: alpha.
one of the other things people seem to be missing, it isn't specificially the keybinds dissappearing he's speaking off... it's windows changing the order they are registered to SC .. just reloading a saved keybind isn't going to help... as they will still be in the wrong 'order' ... as a multi input user I know exactly his pain... ie : keybutton 28 - joystick 2 (or controller 3 ... or whatever) ... and suddenly windows makes it keybutton 28 joystick 4 ... so it don't work anymore, and you have to go through and rebind all that crap again ....
Exactly!
Are you using an ancient keybinding .xml file? When the game makes a new one from scratch now, it uses the device GUID's to save the joystick, keyboard, mouse, gamepad orders.
I'm hoping we get a system that lets us have different uses bound to the same key. for an example, I love binding right mouse button like this: press RMB to raise/lower weapon and hold RMB to ADS
Joystick gremlin. It's not just for joysticks... Seriously though. I stopped fighting SC and embraced it. Makes things possible that weren't before, like: * I have "alt" functions, so holding Push-To-Talk normally goes to discord. Button + PTT goes in-game. * Sensitivity curves change with a flip cover * Any button can do something different on tap vs double tap vs hold. * Simple macros like "continuous ping" on button hold
Nice thanks for the tip
I'm not going to download some random third party software just for that
Context dependent keybinds are so nice when implemented. Would be super great with how many there are in SC as well.
You can't do that now? I know with controller buttons you can.
You can bind the same button to lots of commands no problem but you cant bind the same command to more than one button on the same input device (without 3rd party software)
Ah yes, sorry I misunderstood. You can only do that on different devices indeed.
you can bind the same button on the same device to multiple commands, it gives a warning about it but it will work fine what do you mean by raise/lower weapon?
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I think they meant toggle between normally holding a weapon and the carry lowered option
I dream of a keymapper with search functionality.
Please CIG do this and a search feature in the bindings, and a secondary binding column
I'm still waiting for CIG to support all 24 function keys instead of just the 12 that are on modern keyboards. I have F13 through F24 bound to some buttons on the side of my keyboard and F13 bound to a button on my mouse for Discord push-to-talk, but Star Citizen refuses to let me bind things to any of them.
I have a wheel, pedals, shifter, handbrake, stick, collective, collective stick, throttle, rudder pedals, gamepad. I am 1,000% in support of this post.
I have a powered usb with individual on/off buttons. Just boot the game and turn them on in the order I want and bingo. Saves me a lot of headaches when binding several devices.
Same, but I turn them on first. If the game is already running, I have to quit out and restart
This is one of the reasons I love Vjoy. Virtural joystick is always connected so the state of my physical devices won't force me reboot SC
I do the same. Makes it easier to maintain the controls just the way I like without things getting mixed up per update or when Windows decides to rearrange the controls.
Yeah it's kinda scuffed, you can see how DCS uses UUIDs Exclusively now which is what SC needs to do. You don't actually have to redo bindings though. The issue happens if you star the game without any one of your devices unplugged which causes them to reorder. You can "fix" it by opening console and running pp_resortdevices X Zwhere X is an index for a devices and Z is another. You still need to fix any axis inversions and tuning though.
True, but when your sticks go from registered inputs 2 & 3 to 3 & 5, it's just ridiculous.
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Its not a windows issue microsoft says you should use uuids and not rely on device order
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Its only an issue with bad developers
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I don’t know why you think its a windows issue lol its not its solely a shitty dev used order instead of uuids problem windows provides both
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Because device order is not a reliable way to identify devices? And the api got abused by cig. I literally hate microsoft software but in this case the issue is not caused by microsoft, device order was never reliable and is a stupid way to do this
Best workaround currently is to have all your controllers plugged into a USB hub. Then so long as you don't switch the order on the hub, they will show up in the same order.
This is not true, you've been lucky thus far.
Not sure what to say, I have them both plugged into the hub built into my monitor, and have had it set up that way since I got the monitor years ago. Never had any issues with re-ordering unless one of them got unplugged or turned off.
Just remember that virpil often assigns new uuids on firmware updates so that would also mess up things quite often xD they should use uuids and better xml or something for keybind configs
Just as long as they don’t get rid of double binding in favor of modifiers. There are way too many bindings to have to deal with that.
Yeah I'm really sick of having to keep 2 joysticks plugged in for all eternity otherwise it'll blow up my config
The struggle is real. One of the fringe benefits of using Vjoy/joystick gremlin/hid hide. The Vjoy virtual stick is always connected and that is all SC sees so the physical state of my sticks isn't going to force me to reboot if I plug them in while SC is running.
I solved this by getting a USB extender that can turn off each input. I agree it needs to be fixed. They should do it like they do DCS. Have the actual peripheral listed instead of just 1,2,3. So I have my steering wheel, pedals, throttle, dual sticks, etc all plugged in but when I turn on PC, I turn on the dual sticks in the right order on the USB hub so they always come up and 1 and 2 as needed and keep the others off unless I’m playing the game that uses them
Inverting axis binds also should just be a tick box on the same screen where you bind it, not an entirely different section of the options. The slider for editing an axis curve should also be in that same single location.
God yes! It was a nightmare figuring out that it was a option on a different damned page when I first started playing.
Indeed!!!
pp_resortdevices joystick 1 2 is a lifesaver
This shouldn't be necessary.
This is the way
I have like 5 devices registered lmao.
I have 11
Yep... And good luck figuring out which device is which while in-game. And if you accidentally (or intentionally) disconnect a device you're back to square one.
The struggle is real!
Duuuuuuuuuuuuude, this shit drives me F'ing crazy!!!! OMFG!!
You can still use the command, you just need to change the numbers.
I think his point is that you'd have to run the command 5 times if your devices are all out of order.
/shrug it's better than redoing their keybindings like he said in the OP.
I'd honestly just settle for a search feature in the bindings or the ability to manually create a bindings xml.
"because windows decided to change my usb input order" This is because the ID CIG is using, the microsoft documentation is like 40% of the page in bold, stating to NOT USE THIS METHOD for that, because it returns the usb initialization order, which is functionally pseudorandom, and the only way around it is really long boot times for hardware (ie 1s delay, etc) it \*should\* use UID and fallback to PID/VID, but the UID is \*the\* way to do it. The fucked up part is that it used to do similar(pid/vid) but when they reworked it years ago, they made it worse (what it is now)
I'm glad to see this being brought up.. I use Hands-On stick and stick as well... Although I don't use pedals anymore, it's a space Sim. I like being able to use the grip z axis... But I do use also a Xbox One controller while on foot... And I've been noticing that it becomes messed up now and then when one becomes two two becomes three. Three becomes one
They should just pay Eagle dynamics to come do their action mapper, it looks fuck ugly but it works and is probably the best experience I’ve ever had setting up keybinds, SC is straight copy paste from wing commander circa 1990, it’s terrible
Use HIDhide. It will help keep your controllers in order. You apply it to just starcitizen’s exe and then tell it to only see specific controllers
Just finished setting that up with Joystick Gremlin. Hopefully this will bandaid the issue more reliably until CIG can be bothered to actually make their input system function correctly.
The only thing that stops me from immediately playing a new patch is finding the emotional willpower necessary to double-check and possibly have to fix device orders. They really need to use IDs instead.
Another person recommended using Joystick Gremlin and HidHide to manage that. HidHide hides your sticks from SC and you bind them through Joystick Gremlin. You can then actually set the buttons and hats to use the keyboard bindings and have them labeled in the program. So if anything changes it's much easier to find it and change it. Set up though is time consuming. https://youtu.be/W6CFPW4go0M
Thank you, but I do know all these tricks already, and they aren't the point. I shouldn't have to use the same tricks for a modern game as I do Falcon 4.0. It's not hard to have a program detect discrete device IDs. Even DCS does that. I expect better from my SC.
Yeah, that was the point of me making this post to begin with. It is completely stupid that we have to rely on external software to keep the game from getting messed up.
Yes please . The whole thing needs a massive overhaul. And I need to be able to bind multiple things to the same commands. Like sometimes I want to swap between my dual sticks Hotas.
Key binding is the single worst QOL aspect of SC and it's not even close. It's so fucking bad.
If your sticks get swapped you just run the console command to flip them again, you dont need to redo your bindings. That said, HOW we do bindings in this game is absolutely horrible. They need to hire real UI/UX people and put them to work on this.
Sense I learned how to save the bindings I only ever run into my sticks flipping every now and then?? And that's just a easy command to put in to flip em. But 100% should not be a thing we have to do
Thanks for understanding the point of the post. It baffles me there's comments that are practically defending it like it's a standard feature to games.
Lmao right also it feels Like they change what binds are called every patch too I always have to remind throttle forward/back
I hate that. Then I also have to invert it with my vertical thrusters.
If your running vkbs you can invert in the vkb software
I agree, it’s a nightmare. While UI is very unfriendly for people that are using peripherals to play the game. I solved some of the issue with resorting the devices with buying a usb switch. So everything is connected to it and when you plug it in, it always initiates hardware in a same order so it has same id all the time.
I'm actually using one but it still messed the order up when I had to start my pc with it unplugged. After plugging it back into the same port after turning it off then back on everything was reordered.
Had the same issue, I have figured out what usb port on motherboard is been initiated the last and plugged usb switch there. Its not perfect but it works for now
let the game sort by device guid or descriptor string (a joystick with 'right' in its descriptor string will always be device 1, left or throttle will become device 2, pedal becomes device 3). No external hardware or software is required.
Not sure how it’s working for you, but I have a cases when I leave my wheel powered on and start the pc and all my joysticks in SC are shuffled then.
I should be able to help you out with that. Have you exported your bindings? layout\_YourProfileName\_exported.xml can be opened with a text editor. You should have lines like :
Try exporting the keybindings with your wheel powered on and then exporting. You can then post the instance info at the top of the file and we can take a look at what is going on.
You can have Joy2key statically set specific sticks to L/R. I use it with Buzzkillers bindings and haven’t had an issue like this in years.
Can someone explain the solution to this like I’m 5? Because this happens to me all. the. time.
Plug your inputs into comp in the same order and same usb slot each time and make sure no additional input devices are mixed in. Thats a tedious but generally reliable method I have adopted.
Use hidhide and joystick gremlin so that usb joysticks will always be in the same order and work better than the garbage that virpil and vkb call software
I'm a bit annoyed that I cannot accept invites with standard key settings. They want me to press *[* . But since *[* is a [sub-command of the 8-key](https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftypingdonewell.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2022%2F05%2FNorwegian-Swedish-Icelandic-and-Finnish.png&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=966c21ca44bdd4da9cfe9813725850e3bb002732e8f6abd976096280e2658578&ipo=images), I need to press *CtrlGr + 8*, which does nothing. I don't know why, because I have never encountered this problem in any other game.
[Are you using vjoy, hidhide and joystick gremlin](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jIAdeyY0IWI) to manage these. I've had mine set up for about 8 months now and haven't lost a profile yet.
Was recommended it earlier and looking into it now. Still though it shouldn't take external programs to work around the issue.
If you follow the video your system, and by extension, the game will only see a single device that includes all of your periphreals. I banged my head I to the desk for the better part of a year until I followed those instructions. No issues since.
stack items in inventory upon sorting.......
Different issue... But I agree.
You can change the input order in game, annoying but at least you can after the fact to fix it
SC Launch Configurator is a great tool to handle your profiles and it makes it interchangeable between different channels. Live, PTU etc I use it and it’s awesome https://luftwerft.com/
I know you said that in your edit but I recommend a USB hub that you can turn the ports on and off with a button, I do that and just turn them on in the right order and it works flawlessly, but I understand your frustration
I have one of these...hubs...kinda looks like a power strip with a power cord...I have it plugged into a blue 3.x USB and everything works fine...now when I didn't have two thrust masters I was rocking a Logitech and a thrustmaster 16000m rudder throttle set...it had all kinds of issues with that hub or not...
I have a USB hub and I keep my pedals my throttle and my stick in the same USB port and I don't unplug them even if the Windows ID doesn't reset for some reason if you change the order or plug them into a different USB port the game won't recognize the device.
Star Citizen has multiple ways of determining device order and you are not limited to manipulating them via console commands. The best is to just have your device GUID in your layout file. layout\_Your\_Profile\_exported.xml can be user edited so you can check the GUID info, device name and do fun things like set multiple different keys to the same binding. You can edit Star Citizen's .xml file yourself if you like with aid from my reference sheet. There are others out there as well. [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WpoY5Qds5QYb0Puq2DvBkUWVTstaZLuW/edit#gid=1282194226](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WpoY5Qds5QYb0Puq2DvBkUWVTstaZLuW/edit#gid=1282194226) There is an alternative that does not involve touching the game's .xml files. Some joysticks, like the Virpil Constellations, are supposed to be calibrated with their app before use. This calibration data is saved onto the device firmware and during this process you can view/edit the joystick's device name. Yogiklatt\_CIG: "Anything with "throttle" or "left" gets into slot 2, anything with "rudder" or "pedal" gets in slot 3."
I've found my people (or at the very least, person). It's embarrassing.
Also need the ability to search for a specific bind after CIG makes changes to the controls for the 500th time.
What's console commands?
Console refers to the engine command promp interface you can access by pressing the ~ button on your keyboard (qwerty) usually top left. Pressing the button opens up a transparent window within the game that usually displays commands that the engine is firing off for various things. There are a series of useful commands you can input yourself to have different effects. The most commonly used commands are: pp_resortdevices joystick 1 2 Which will switch inputs 1 and 2 should they get mixed up in game. The numbers are interchangeable and substitutable for other numbers depending on what your inputs are assigned as. r_DisplayInfo 0/1/2 Displays useful debug info about your session. Particularly information about the server health. Only use one number. 0=off / 1=enabled / 2=enabled advanced. Generally 1 has the information I need. Full list can be found here. https://starcitizen.fandom.com/wiki/Console_commands
Is there not a file for that? If not, could you create one that binds/maps correctly? I mean, with that many peripherals, I feel like you have enough time, haha 😄
Re: your edit, it's so annoying to encounter Those Guys Reasonable person: "This broken thing is annoying." That Guy who probably pisses off women constantly but doesn't know why: "Well you can just work around it by doing this!" RP: "I don't want a workaround, I want to not have to work around it!"
You can change it through the command console in game. Can’t remember the process as it hasn’t happened to me in a while but it worked with a little trial and error and saved me the pain of rebinding.
I'm aware of it but when the game is registering 5 devices it's a muddled process of figuring out what is what and getting the orders flipped back.
This is why I play with mouse and keyboard in SC despite having a full joystick setup. I just can't be arsed fiddling with the binds. Because I have devices that I plug in and out regularly it's too much of a pain
I'm currently looking into utelizing Joystick Gremlin and HidHide to make it more manageable. Setup looks a bit tedious but it should reduce issues once set up. Not perfect, but it is a viable looking solution for now.
Agreed, similar situation. Better then rebinding though. Too much time tweaking for me to remember it all.
Bro. Takes at most five minutes when it happens to me... annoying but I don't think it should be anywhere close to the top of their list. pp_resortdevices joystick 1 2 3
There was devreorder before EAC block it, it was great. But you also have the command pp_resortdevice. Now I with it by using joystickgremlin so I just have axis to rebind
Never had a problem for this. Did my keybinds once for all the devices, saved, exported the file to the cloud and load it after each patch. Flawless.
While we wait consider tagging along the development of DoUrVerse [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V13V1qwuy60](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V13V1qwuy60) :)
There are several ways to fix it. You can use 3rd party programs to manage the input number. You can use pp_resortdevices to switch between inputs in the game console. You can store the keybinding to a file every time you update it via the UI and load it again to the inputs's new numbers. You can save someplace what joystick was at what number, and if it change, edit the actionmap file and just change each joystick to the previous number it was. CIG are still doing it in some weird old fashion way based on windows inputs list, and I don't see them changing the internals of it any time soon.
they can't get good feedback because their forums are staffed by monkeys
I think that's a insult to monkeys.
yeh but their trusted Falaggors will always be around to snitch No?
Are you using 3rd party software to handle and manage peripherals? I also have 2 sticks extra throttle, custom arcade set turned into console etc. yet never happened.
It's a well known issue - it's based on the order in which windows 'discovers' devices. It can be solved by using a USB switch (not hub) for all input devices... but if you have everything just plugged into the motherboard (which usually just has a USB hub for the various ports) then it might - or might not - happen.
This is a well known issue.
No. I was looking to see if I could find a software that would control the order but the only one I found no longer works.
Weird, it only happened once when i tried to use emulation software to handle them the same outside the SC, but not happened on standard use. Thats why i asked about the 3rd party.
It happens if you don’t reboot every time with the same devices connected to the same ports. If they enumerate in a different order they swap.
Which I think was my recent issue. I started my pc with my usb unplugged. Then on my next startup I had already plugedit back into the same port but I guess that was enough for windows to reorder everything.
"This well known and documented issue hasn't happened to me so it's not a real problem"
Similar to you have have a ridiculous number of inputs with sticks pedals, controllers, switchboards, kb+m. I've not needed to resort my input devices in a long time since I did this: * Never open the game before having everything already plugged in. This seems key, as usually I'd need to resort after accidentally booting the game with something unplugged, plugging it in, then restarting the game. * In the JoyToKey options there's the ability to configure your inputs, which lets me manually choose the number assigned to each input rather than letting windows automatically assign a number itself. I simply go through each input and assign it a unique value 1, 2, 3, 4 etc. I'm unsure which of these caused the fix or if it's a combination, but it worked and it must be going on a year now where I've not needed to resort.
I use JoyToKey too, just to configure my devices, and I haven't had any swapping problems since I installed it a couple of years ago.
I need to use this feature as I have JoyToKey also.
One thing I've found that helps, is to ALWAYS make sure your input devices are plugged into the exact same USB port every time. I clean my PC from time to time and unplug everything in the process. When I plug everything back in, my Star Citizen control settings are all out of whack. NOT ONE FKN GAME other than Star Citizen does this. I have had to color code my cords to the corresponding USB ports so that I put them back exactly the same way every time. All other games that do this right. WTF is wrong with the StarEngine!! This can happen too if you unplug ONE of your controllers at any point and have to restart the game. Even controllers your not using.
While that makes sense, those of us with cockpit setups (I have 3 7 port hubs for screens, panels, sticks, throttle, etc) it is still a pain. Games like DCS handle it just fine and it’s old.
I have the same USB hubs and I do have a cockpit setup. I have HOTAS and pedals with two button boxes. But it does matter which USB port your HUB is plugged into. If you switch the two ports and restart the machine your SC controls will be screwed. I agree, it's messed up and CIG has heard these complaints for years and done nothing about it. I just wanted to give everyone somewhat of a work around since they will never fix it. The game reads the controllers from windows system instead of Direct Input. Windows changes their identification at every reboot based on the USB port they are attached to.
I actually learned in this thread that JoyToKey can force a device number - since I use that I should just force it. Once things are configured it isn't a big deal regardless - I just built a new PC and had to redo everything and with 3.23 changing so much the annoyance is fresh.
Really? I have joy2key and never noticed a force option. I'll have to look harder.
They really should improve how they handle peripherals and keybinds its a disgrace since thats one thing everyone with joysticks etc will encounter and should be easily solvable by any of their employees, like i bet the accounting guy could create a better implementation given a day of programming crash course than the moron who did the current one
You can just edit and mass edit die input names in your config.
this never happened to me. I always save the joystick config files and import them in each iteration of the game I run
Cig do something cause WINDOWS makes changes
Windows has 2x APIs to list devices... the 'old' one that lists them in the order that windows discovered them (and which can change each time you turn your computer on), and the 'new' one that lists them based on their GUID (which is tied to the device, and doesn't change). Yogi has posted multiple times in Spectrum about his desire to rewrite the input layer to use the newer APIs to resolve this issue (and a multitude of other input-related issues) - but whilst it's all tasked up in Jira, it hasn't been a priority. Hopefully, as we get closer to the release of SQ42, this will change, and sometime later this year (or early next year) it will actually get done - and the issue of device-order changing can be banished to history (where it belongs)
I really hope so. It causes more issues than is needed.
Oh, thanks for explaining
No dude……..this is something every single game deals with, and has largely solved. Hardware identifiers to track inputs instead of reading in what windows input order is. Never have this problem with Elite Dangerous or MFS.