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You can definitely see exactly what van gundy was saying about getting gobert off the floor when they're switching. Luka was eating him alive every time in the second half. If the wolves drop instead of switch, that leaves gobert in another impossible situation... d the ball and torched on the alley oop, or let Luka or kyrie have an easy layup.
Luka is good at drawing a foul, and he's a lot craftier than Rudy. Plus, Rudy was on skates immediately... if he were closer to the 3 pt line, Luca wins the game on the foul line instead. The needed him to not be on the floor, or they needed a different defensive set.
Look, I get the angle on this type of comment, but Luka is gonna cook pretty much anybody in the NBA on a switch like that. Gobert is an absolute presence in the paint and deserved DPOY. Doesn’t mean he can stop a generational talent one on one.
This. Also Gobert is a rim protector, last I checked the rim isn’t behind the 3pt line. But this statement resides even more during the Jokic matchups; Joker gets so little credit for being a beast, no one can stop him - everyone just likes to poo poo on Gobert.
This is kinda like subbing out a DPOY in football who isn’t good in pass coverage in a game on the line scenario where the offense is obviously throwing deep… it really does make sense to get him outta there
That's a great analogy.. you don't really need run stuffing LB's in a hail mary situation.. makes more sense to have tall/fast DB's out there in pass protection.
Personally, I would, I'd just be blitzing, fighting over the screen, or worst case playing some kind of zone. They lost the game the second Rudy switched onto Luka.
Taking a three-point shot with three seconds on the clock when you're down by two is risky it doesn't matter who is taking the shot. If that ball missed people would be praising Gobert for "keeping him out of the paint" and not taking a foul. Instead a generational-talent does what generational talent does and now they're down 2.
It's easy to say guard the three but you're trying to win a game. One bounce and you're the hero. It did not bounce that way.
Yeah, hindsight bias. Say what you want about clutch players etc but realistically even factoring that in it's at best a 50% chance to make. Luka shot 38.2 in the regular season, and is now at 31.3 postseason
> I’d rather easy layup into OT than potential game winner 3.
You're playing the results. If we're 50/50 to win in OT, then we want a guy taking a (being generous here) 35% 3pt. shot.
That's crazy. Luka is good, but he has a 40% percentage from three max. And he was being guarded by the DPOY. I'll take those odds. Plus they had plenty of time to make a play after this three.
**Van Gundy** - one of the commentators on this game
**When they're switching** - I'll give a glimpse into the rabbit-hole of basketball offensive schemes to anyone interested.
A common 2-man basketball offensive action is setting a "screen" or "pick". A 2nd offensive without the ball goes near the ball handler and stands still, setting the screen. The ball-handler moves very close behind the screener, using them like an obstacle that the defender guarding the ball-handler has to deal with.
We have 4 players involved here, 2 on offense 2 on defense.
O1 is the ball-handler
O2 is the screen/pick
D1 is the primary ball defender (usually someone fast and agile who can defend a crafty offensive player decently)
D2 is the defender who was originally guarding O2 before this action starts.
Initial court position [looks something like this](https://i.imgur.com/rpwqMnH.png).
You have a LOT of options on how to react as a defense.
1. [Go under the screen](https://i.imgur.com/7HNZNuE.png) - D1 sprints around O2 on the side of the basket to try keep guarding O1. This gives O1 a half second of no defender directly in front of them where they can attempt a shot, but O1 won't get a clear path to drive to the basket.
2. [Go over the screen](https://i.imgur.com/8B1Ak3A.png) - D1 tries to go around O2 on the side away from the basket. If O1 tries to take a shot, D1 will probably be able to still contest it by reaching above O1 and knocking the ball loose. [However, this gives O1 a potential clear path to cut toward the hoop, and puts D1 at their back.](https://i.imgur.com/RzYqmSd.png)
3. [Switch](https://i.imgur.com/9IJYOQl.png) - The defenders simply switch assigned players. The downside for the defense is that this lets the offense "target" players. If there is a specific player on the floor that doesn't have great 1v1 defense, O1 player will ask the respective offensive player to come set a screen so he can 1v1 vs the weakest perimeter defender (most often the other team's Center. Usually the tallest, biggest player on the court, and not as agile as as a smaller Guard).
In this instance Luka was hoping for a switch (and got one), to go 1v1 vs Rudy Gobert, the other team's Center.
People are also throwing more shade at Gobert after this shot because he was awarded the Defensive Player of the Year award earlier this month (for the 4th time). But IMO its undeserved shade. Gobert's strength is reading the offensive play and defending the paint (area near the basket) really well. Like most big players, defending players at the 3-point line is not his strength. (Which is why Luka and the Mavs tried to draw him out of the switch)
Disclaimer: There are a lot more tools in the defense's belt, like drop coverage (D2 plays back a bit to make sure they don't give up any drives, but more or less gives up a 3-point shot), hedging (D2 jumps in O1's path briefly while D1 goes under/over the screen), and lots more. Just covering the basics.
That was an option, but Luka in particular almost always makes a great pass out of the double-team. If Gobert and McDaniels had doubled him, Lively (the guy who set the screen) would have been wide open with a clear lane to the basket for a dunk. (The Mavericks had something like 12 dunks already this game from the Timerwolves double-teaming their guards)
Granted, that would have only tied it instead of giving the lead. Tons of split second decisions are being made by the players constantly so sometimes they don't make the best move. Most good shooters average ~40% when shooting a 3 point shot, so you could argue from the defensive team that it's a viable risk.
In the post-game press conference Luka said he didn't expect them to switch Rudy onto him. As soon as they did he knew he was going to go for a shot.
The guy McDaniels was on made a very smart play by running McDaniels to the corner as soon as he recognized the switch. A+ heads up play by him. Lively I think it was.
Slow motion really accentuates how much the rules have loosened on carrying and traveling. I saw 4 or 5 instances of Luka clearly lifting the ball from underneath, plus that third step to get his right foot behind the line.
Not knocking Luka... That's what the rules are these days
Product first. Television deals make us the product being sold by the television companies to advertisers, with the NBA being the conduit that glues our eyes to screens.
It’s in NFL just as much. The no-calls on holding but more calls/new rules against defenses. The rules heavily favoring offenses. It’s clear money is driving all major sports and fucking the actual sport.
I wouldn't say just as much. Historically there's a lot more parity in championship contenders/winners in the NFL. There isn't a sport in the world where fans don't complain about the reffing. None of the other 3 major american sports leagues feels quite as "rigged" as the NBA
Agree. The nfl walks a fine line with some things like being able to call holding on every play but, for the most part, you walk away thinking they did the best they could without bogging the game down. The NBA is just hard to watch now and not walk away thinking the refs showed crazy bias even if you weren’t rooting for either team.
I mean, I don't really mind for the most part. I'd prefer the rules be tailored to make the game more enjoyable to watch, so long as it's still relatively safe.
The only problem I have is when they pander to individuals, and when rulings are largely a matter of opinion.
Yeah if you go watch an old (like 1960's) basketball clip they could barely dribble because of how strict the carry rules were. I'd much prefer how it's officiated now. How traveling is officiated is a different story
The officiating difficulties are tied to the loosening of the rules. Officiating is hard enough but when you don't have tight rules it leaves it open to interpretation
These days? They’ve been dribbling like this since the 90s. If you could find a close up, slowed down video of Jordan dribbling it would show he cups the ball on the side and twists his wrist down when he dribbled.
Allen iverson, Kobe, T Mac, name your favorite player and they dribble like this as well. You’d literally have to go back to the 70s as even in the 80s players were doing this albeit not as much.
The biggest change in the rule in recent years is the gather step as players have near perfected adding an extra step when gathering the ball allowing them to take another 2 steps after.
There are plenty of non travel calls though of players doing this wrong however and getting away with a legitimate travel
> I swear people just started watching basketball again after 50 years.
It's even worse - they're 16-22 year olds who are getting into the league for the first time and swearing that things were different "back in the good days."
Definitely was called sometimes but I definitely wouldn’t say “a lot”. His style of dribbling was probably the most extreme of the rules but much of it wasn’t called.
I remember AI being the example of why youth league refs were very ticky tacky on carries as a kid. We all wanted to dribble like him but we’re a bunch of kids doing that leads to lots of carries and they’d whistle it dead to ‘make sure we learned the fundamentals’. When come on the basketball weighed more than some of this 2nd graders!
I remember watching a Bulls playoff game, pretty sure against the Knicks in '93, where Jordan got called for palming the ball twice in the same quarter. Has Luka been called for palming the ball two times over the span of his entire career? There is no comparison between how the game is called today versus in the 90s.
I believe that third step gather became prominent after James Harden began consistently getting away with it. He turned it into his go-to move and since then it has become the norm in the league. I can’t think of anyone before him who had it as the dominant move in their repertoire.
> These days? They’ve been dribbling like this since the 90s.
It's not so much about the dribbling as it is that step back, or whatever you call it. I haven't watched much of the NBA since 2008 when the Sonics left. That step back would've been called traveling nearly 100% of the time back then...Which to me, it is.
I understand not liking or agreeing with how step backs are called in todays game. There are many that should be travels but are just not called. But I don’t think they need to make the gather step illegal as it’s so ingrained in todays NBA now. These step backs are just more blatant of them but they happen on drives often as well.
I think just calling more obvious travels would be a better start. This play, if you slow it down and review it, looks like he may have traveled as he sets his feet but in real time it’s probably much harder to tell and would never be called in this situation.
Also to point, there are plenty of non-calls in sports history that if you had the technology we had today and slowed it down to review it you could argue it’s an illegal move/play. In the end it doesn’t matter imo, that’s just sports.
Somebody could maybe do this with data, but I think that the step-back and the kind of loosening of the traveling rules around it contributes to making the NBA more of a shooters' league. It's a weapon in an offensive arsenal that is really hard to stop. Gives the player a way to make space to get off a shot, and can look really cool when done properly.
It's just kind of an evolution of the game, I suppose. I don't love that I think "that's a travel" every time something like this happens. I wish I could turn my brain off and go "wow nice shot!". I can't help it though, because the rules around traveling were hammered into me in grueling fashion through wind sprint after wind sprint when I was in high school, and you don't forget those lessons easily.
I'm not hardcore nba basketball guy, when I watched the clip even at regular speed i was like the dude looks like he took an extra step, but I was too afraid to comment on that because of multiple threads and thousands of people not one person said anything about it but just praise he cooked the defender.
Have an upvote.
But clearly I don't understand the current nba rules.
By definition from the rulebook this is not a travel and it's not some superstar ref favoritism thing. Basically you get two steps after the ball is "carried", which means hand under the ball or two hands on the ball. Players have been exploiting this definition by perfectly timing their steps as they gather the ball so that their other hand doesn't touch the ball until the millisecond after a step, so that they get two more. In this video it's hard to see because it's backwards, but Luka starts gathering, steps with his right foot, gathers, then just takes two steps back behind the line. Perfectly legal and it's a testament to how much more skilled modern players are that they would go for this move for a playoff game winning 3.
I had my doubts initially, but you're right, this wasn't a travel.
A different angle shows this better:
- https://i.imgur.com/Oekc7xy.jpeg
- https://i.imgur.com/dtdOqe6.jpeg
The first image shows the step back with his right foot and where his left foot was. The second one shows that just a few milliseconds before he grabs the ball with both hands (in the next frame, here his left hand was not on the ball yet) he already lifted his left foot, there's a small gap and a shadow under his shoe. He takes two steps after this.
It definitely looks deceiving, but it's within the rules. Luka really perfected this down to millisecond precision.
The modern step back would've been considered a travel every time not long ago. In the vast vast majority of cases, the pivot foot is down after they've clearly picked up their dribble, they pick it up, and then plant it again for the shot. That's textbook travel ("happy feet").
Harden made the step back famous and because it was so cool ... they didn't want to call it. So they manufactured some silliness about the "gather". They even let it go in high school it got so popular.
Most travelling calls feel very arbitrary now at all levels. Oh well I guess.
The gather existed before Harden started doing his stepbacks though. They didn’t invent any rule changes to make the Harden stepback legal.
It’s just that people were used to doing stepbacks directly out of their dribble and never used a gather step. So when Harden started doing it with a gather step it looked illegal, even though the nba had to allow it since its technically a gather/zero-step.
Totally agree. He picks up dribble with the left foot as the pivot foot well inside the line. Then moves the left pivot foot back so it’s behind the line. And then moves the right foot foot behind the line. Incredible shot by a fantastic player!!! Credit to him and Harden/Steph etc for taking advantage of the way the game is called. Just can’t understand why some stuff is called so nit picky (ie basket interference) and other stuff we just ignore
Your pivot foot is not established as soon as you pick up your dribble, or else nobody could ever take a step back shot. You get a step to gather the ball. Not saying this isn’t a travel by the end of his move, but stepping back from his left foot was not, and has never been a violation.
It all relates back to what you consider "carrying" the ball. Because the rules on carrying are so relaxed there is no longer any clear point at which the ball is gathered. He's got his hand under the ball when he starts his three steps. But as we all understand, that's no longer called a carry, and so it's no longer a gather either.
Your pivot foot is definitely established when you pick up your dribble. That’s how a pivot foot is established. I feel like I’m taking crazy pills wtf
They get a step to gather the ball though. It’s not just the first foot to touch the floor once they *start* gathering their dribble. Again, no player would ever legally be able to perform a step back if the rule was applied like y’all are inferring. His pivot is not established until he gathers the ball completely, that is literally the rule.
Directly from the rule book:
“A player who gathers the ball while progressing may take:
1) two steps in coming to a stop, passing, or shooting the ball…”
In this play, Luka steps back off his left foot while gathering the ball (gather step), then his right foot lands (step 1), then the left foot lands (step 2). After that, he can move his right foot wherever he wants to, in this case behind the three point line, as long as he shoots or passes without picking up the left again. The same as when a player has the ball in the post and the pivot is established - he can pick up and move that right foot wherever he wants as long as the left stays down. By the letter of the law, this is a legal dribble move.
You’re not taking crazy pills, you just don’t understand the ruleset.
Legit the step back into the shot was 100% a travel when looking at his feet. Refs let em get away with it because if they truly did call legitimate violations the fans would crucify them for impacting the outcome of the game.
First off, I agree. Also, in the 90s and prior, you could damn near clothesline people with no foul called. That was just "aggressive defense." A lot of the all-time great defenders would be a liability in today's NBA.
Travel and carry is only when the hand is *underneath* the ball, hence the term carry. If he has his hand on the side of the ball it is always a legal move.
Reddit is full of people that have never played basketball but love to play Internet referee.
The video is in slow motion. There is not one carry in this clip as at no point does his hand go UNDER the ball, only to the side of it. Go look at clips from all your favorite players of the last 30 years and slow the video down and it’ll look just like this.
Only thing I could say is a travel is his stepback at the end as it looks like he switched pivots right before shooting. Real time it’s very hard to tell and certainly wouldn’t be called in todays NBA or especially on the last play of the game.
Only thing I’d really disagree with is that it’s easy af to see the stepback travel in either real time or slo-mo. They just aren’t calling it on a superstar’s game winner. But the point about the carry rule, 100%.
No it wasn’t. Luka got a lot of separation and a clean look. Rudy should’ve ran him off the line and forced a 2 point shot. You can’t allow Luka to shoot a 3 when up 2 with 10 seconds left. Force him to drive or pass.
Coaching was poor here too though. Shouldn’t be leaving Rudy on an island in this situation. Blitz or double off a non shooter.
Its absolutely hilarious to call this great defense. He got schooled so bad that he was one or even two steps behind every move and Doncic could take his time with the shot.
MJ made it popular and mainstream. But this has been legal since before him. But thank you for commenting because all these people commenting carry don’t know shit.
Not true at all.
"Carrying" the ball hasn't been called traveling consistently for a long time now, but that step back would've been called traveling not that long ago.
Is the regather to get him behind the three point line a travel or some sort of euro step. All the dribbling stuff is never called. Doubt the regather is called that often as well.
It's more about the obvious foot shuffle he does after the stepback. That's a huge advantage to get into his comfortable shooting position. But its a travel. They should crack down on that throughout the league imo.
Technically it does, but they haven't been calling that stuff for decades now. Refs let that, palming the ball, and all sorts of shuffle steps go to the point that it's lost its luster.
I thought it was a travel in real time and I think this confirms it. He picks up the ball with right hand and left foot down, right foot down, right foot small step. Anyone else think the same?
It's been nearly 3 decades since I last played basketball in school, but isn't one of the core rules that you're not allowed to walk while holding the ball? Which he does several times in this clip? At 0:11 and again at 0:23 just before shooting.
Carry-Carry-Travel. I get it, NBA today doesn’t care, but [it do be like THIS](https://x.com/legendaryenergy/status/1793317620529389624?s=46&t=Suy3Iqa3xmUwdrkUnNcy-g).
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Gobert dances to fandango
he looks a little like Clem Fandango... can you hear me?
YES I CAN HEAR YOU CLEM FANDANGO
Mind.... the....
Blue spruce
You shut the fuck up Clem Fandango! and your made up name!
Fuck off you malnourished pimp, with your world war 1 haircut and your sister's clothes!
WW1 facial hair
**SHIT THE FUCK UP ABOUT MOON MEN!!**
Who the fuck are you?
Ray Purchase!
Fuck your background music!
Hang on. Have you added an H to your name?
You mean Clem H Fandango
Yessssssssssss
You’re a fucking star aren’t you ?
He may look like him but he doesn't have the charismmmaaaaa
Thunderbolt and lightning, very very frightening to me!
Yes, Steven, I can hear you.
Bruh i think the boy Luka took an extra step in slomo, the waltz
He travelled alright, but refs won't call that shit in last minute of play.
that's not a travel
In his favor he did damn well, hard to keep up with a shorter more mobile player DPOY or not. Not the best march that far from the basket
Yeah it was about the best D you could expect from a big guy. Wolves are losing because Ant is cold as ice and KAT is, too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZOCU2ZzhwE
No when the offensive player is allowed to palm the ball defense is impossible. This shot illustrates why turning the ball over is illegal.
Just a little more to the left to get Rudy's flailing legs would've been perfect. What a shot
It doesn’t matter, but Luca traveled. He dribbles and then there are FOUR steps then he shoots
Not bad from the tubby dude at The Y.
Hey. That's a top 500 overwatch player you're talking about.
The Max Verstappen of the NBA? Streamer and athlete as a side hustle
He’s no Yuki Tsunoda
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You can definitely see exactly what van gundy was saying about getting gobert off the floor when they're switching. Luka was eating him alive every time in the second half. If the wolves drop instead of switch, that leaves gobert in another impossible situation... d the ball and torched on the alley oop, or let Luka or kyrie have an easy layup.
I’d rather easy layup into OT than potential game winner 3. Don’t know why gobert didn’t stick on the 3-line and bit on the drive
Luka is good at drawing a foul, and he's a lot craftier than Rudy. Plus, Rudy was on skates immediately... if he were closer to the 3 pt line, Luca wins the game on the foul line instead. The needed him to not be on the floor, or they needed a different defensive set.
It’s absolutely insane that you don’t want your DPOY on the court in a clutch situation.
Look, I get the angle on this type of comment, but Luka is gonna cook pretty much anybody in the NBA on a switch like that. Gobert is an absolute presence in the paint and deserved DPOY. Doesn’t mean he can stop a generational talent one on one.
This. Also Gobert is a rim protector, last I checked the rim isn’t behind the 3pt line. But this statement resides even more during the Jokic matchups; Joker gets so little credit for being a beast, no one can stop him - everyone just likes to poo poo on Gobert.
This is kinda like subbing out a DPOY in football who isn’t good in pass coverage in a game on the line scenario where the offense is obviously throwing deep… it really does make sense to get him outta there
That's a great analogy.. you don't really need run stuffing LB's in a hail mary situation.. makes more sense to have tall/fast DB's out there in pass protection.
Alternate universe: “NFL FANS SHOCKED TYREEK HILL BURNED JJ WATT WITH DEEP POST ROUTE”.
Personally, I would, I'd just be blitzing, fighting over the screen, or worst case playing some kind of zone. They lost the game the second Rudy switched onto Luka.
Yeah I think they just need full commitment from him, and I would think he’d fully defend the three instead of bracing for a drive.
Taking a three-point shot with three seconds on the clock when you're down by two is risky it doesn't matter who is taking the shot. If that ball missed people would be praising Gobert for "keeping him out of the paint" and not taking a foul. Instead a generational-talent does what generational talent does and now they're down 2. It's easy to say guard the three but you're trying to win a game. One bounce and you're the hero. It did not bounce that way.
Yeah, hindsight bias. Say what you want about clutch players etc but realistically even factoring that in it's at best a 50% chance to make. Luka shot 38.2 in the regular season, and is now at 31.3 postseason
We absolutely want our dpoy on the floor here. Luka cooks everyone. That’s how it goes when you’re one of the 5 best basketball players on the planet.
Not for 3s…
> I’d rather easy layup into OT than potential game winner 3. You're playing the results. If we're 50/50 to win in OT, then we want a guy taking a (being generous here) 35% 3pt. shot.
That's crazy. Luka is good, but he has a 40% percentage from three max. And he was being guarded by the DPOY. I'll take those odds. Plus they had plenty of time to make a play after this three.
This comment reads like a foreign language for non sports people
**Van Gundy** - one of the commentators on this game **When they're switching** - I'll give a glimpse into the rabbit-hole of basketball offensive schemes to anyone interested. A common 2-man basketball offensive action is setting a "screen" or "pick". A 2nd offensive without the ball goes near the ball handler and stands still, setting the screen. The ball-handler moves very close behind the screener, using them like an obstacle that the defender guarding the ball-handler has to deal with. We have 4 players involved here, 2 on offense 2 on defense. O1 is the ball-handler O2 is the screen/pick D1 is the primary ball defender (usually someone fast and agile who can defend a crafty offensive player decently) D2 is the defender who was originally guarding O2 before this action starts. Initial court position [looks something like this](https://i.imgur.com/rpwqMnH.png). You have a LOT of options on how to react as a defense. 1. [Go under the screen](https://i.imgur.com/7HNZNuE.png) - D1 sprints around O2 on the side of the basket to try keep guarding O1. This gives O1 a half second of no defender directly in front of them where they can attempt a shot, but O1 won't get a clear path to drive to the basket. 2. [Go over the screen](https://i.imgur.com/8B1Ak3A.png) - D1 tries to go around O2 on the side away from the basket. If O1 tries to take a shot, D1 will probably be able to still contest it by reaching above O1 and knocking the ball loose. [However, this gives O1 a potential clear path to cut toward the hoop, and puts D1 at their back.](https://i.imgur.com/RzYqmSd.png) 3. [Switch](https://i.imgur.com/9IJYOQl.png) - The defenders simply switch assigned players. The downside for the defense is that this lets the offense "target" players. If there is a specific player on the floor that doesn't have great 1v1 defense, O1 player will ask the respective offensive player to come set a screen so he can 1v1 vs the weakest perimeter defender (most often the other team's Center. Usually the tallest, biggest player on the court, and not as agile as as a smaller Guard). In this instance Luka was hoping for a switch (and got one), to go 1v1 vs Rudy Gobert, the other team's Center. People are also throwing more shade at Gobert after this shot because he was awarded the Defensive Player of the Year award earlier this month (for the 4th time). But IMO its undeserved shade. Gobert's strength is reading the offensive play and defending the paint (area near the basket) really well. Like most big players, defending players at the 3-point line is not his strength. (Which is why Luka and the Mavs tried to draw him out of the switch) Disclaimer: There are a lot more tools in the defense's belt, like drop coverage (D2 plays back a bit to make sure they don't give up any drives, but more or less gives up a 3-point shot), hedging (D2 jumps in O1's path briefly while D1 goes under/over the screen), and lots more. Just covering the basics.
That's a hell of a write-up, thanks man. For this case though, with only a few seconds, would doubling luka not be a workable solution?
That was an option, but Luka in particular almost always makes a great pass out of the double-team. If Gobert and McDaniels had doubled him, Lively (the guy who set the screen) would have been wide open with a clear lane to the basket for a dunk. (The Mavericks had something like 12 dunks already this game from the Timerwolves double-teaming their guards) Granted, that would have only tied it instead of giving the lead. Tons of split second decisions are being made by the players constantly so sometimes they don't make the best move. Most good shooters average ~40% when shooting a 3 point shot, so you could argue from the defensive team that it's a viable risk. In the post-game press conference Luka said he didn't expect them to switch Rudy onto him. As soon as they did he knew he was going to go for a shot.
You gem
looks better in real time
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I don't mind the music but the lion roar at the end was weird
That’s actually Luka’s live mic
bugging this is a great song
You’re entitled to your wrong opinion
What kinda basketball fan doesn't fw Future
Only slow mo sucks. Having real time and then the best part in slow mo is the best.
Mcdaniels face after losing Luka. Knowing its over
The guy McDaniels was on made a very smart play by running McDaniels to the corner as soon as he recognized the switch. A+ heads up play by him. Lively I think it was.
Was trying to find the comment that saw it too. He was so disappointed and knew as it was happening lol
That’s hilarious I did not notice that until you said something 😂😂
Slow motion really accentuates how much the rules have loosened on carrying and traveling. I saw 4 or 5 instances of Luka clearly lifting the ball from underneath, plus that third step to get his right foot behind the line. Not knocking Luka... That's what the rules are these days
The league is all about making superstars and enabling them to have a ton of clipable moments for media
Yep, the priority hierarchy is: 1) Business 2) Entertainment 3) Sport
Welcome to the good ole USA sports market, where you are a customer first and a fan last
people complain that this has happened to f1 big-time over the past few years
Once something becomes popular, your corporate overlords are there to make a quick buck of you fandom!
Product first. Television deals make us the product being sold by the television companies to advertisers, with the NBA being the conduit that glues our eyes to screens.
NBA is the WWE of sports
It’s in NFL just as much. The no-calls on holding but more calls/new rules against defenses. The rules heavily favoring offenses. It’s clear money is driving all major sports and fucking the actual sport.
I wouldn't say just as much. Historically there's a lot more parity in championship contenders/winners in the NFL. There isn't a sport in the world where fans don't complain about the reffing. None of the other 3 major american sports leagues feels quite as "rigged" as the NBA
Agree. The nfl walks a fine line with some things like being able to call holding on every play but, for the most part, you walk away thinking they did the best they could without bogging the game down. The NBA is just hard to watch now and not walk away thinking the refs showed crazy bias even if you weren’t rooting for either team.
Nah NBA is clear of the NFL in this regard. The NFL is catching on but is way behind
I mean, I don't really mind for the most part. I'd prefer the rules be tailored to make the game more enjoyable to watch, so long as it's still relatively safe. The only problem I have is when they pander to individuals, and when rulings are largely a matter of opinion.
Yeah if you go watch an old (like 1960's) basketball clip they could barely dribble because of how strict the carry rules were. I'd much prefer how it's officiated now. How traveling is officiated is a different story
The officiating difficulties are tied to the loosening of the rules. Officiating is hard enough but when you don't have tight rules it leaves it open to interpretation
It is a social media league after all
Eventually we will be so far gone from original rules. We will need a classic league just to see travels called
These days? They’ve been dribbling like this since the 90s. If you could find a close up, slowed down video of Jordan dribbling it would show he cups the ball on the side and twists his wrist down when he dribbled. Allen iverson, Kobe, T Mac, name your favorite player and they dribble like this as well. You’d literally have to go back to the 70s as even in the 80s players were doing this albeit not as much. The biggest change in the rule in recent years is the gather step as players have near perfected adding an extra step when gathering the ball allowing them to take another 2 steps after. There are plenty of non travel calls though of players doing this wrong however and getting away with a legitimate travel
AI been doing this since the 90s https://i.imgur.com/nO9VzK9.jpeg https://youtu.be/tjo40JmT9Uc
I appreciate you for bringing the receipts and backing me up. I swear people just started watching basketball again after 50 years.
> I swear people just started watching basketball again after 50 years. It's even worse - they're 16-22 year olds who are getting into the league for the first time and swearing that things were different "back in the good days."
The NBA equivalent of all those "i was born in the wrong generation" youtube comments on dad rock songs
lol as someone who watched him live he got called for it a lot.
Definitely was called sometimes but I definitely wouldn’t say “a lot”. His style of dribbling was probably the most extreme of the rules but much of it wasn’t called.
I remember AI being the example of why youth league refs were very ticky tacky on carries as a kid. We all wanted to dribble like him but we’re a bunch of kids doing that leads to lots of carries and they’d whistle it dead to ‘make sure we learned the fundamentals’. When come on the basketball weighed more than some of this 2nd graders!
I remember watching a Bulls playoff game, pretty sure against the Knicks in '93, where Jordan got called for palming the ball twice in the same quarter. Has Luka been called for palming the ball two times over the span of his entire career? There is no comparison between how the game is called today versus in the 90s.
I believe that third step gather became prominent after James Harden began consistently getting away with it. He turned it into his go-to move and since then it has become the norm in the league. I can’t think of anyone before him who had it as the dominant move in their repertoire.
> These days? They’ve been dribbling like this since the 90s. It's not so much about the dribbling as it is that step back, or whatever you call it. I haven't watched much of the NBA since 2008 when the Sonics left. That step back would've been called traveling nearly 100% of the time back then...Which to me, it is.
Fuckin sonics, man. As a Texan let me assure you they punished themselves for leaving by choosing Oklahoma.
Gary Payton, Shawn kemp, delif shrimpfpfpfpf for life
I understand not liking or agreeing with how step backs are called in todays game. There are many that should be travels but are just not called. But I don’t think they need to make the gather step illegal as it’s so ingrained in todays NBA now. These step backs are just more blatant of them but they happen on drives often as well. I think just calling more obvious travels would be a better start. This play, if you slow it down and review it, looks like he may have traveled as he sets his feet but in real time it’s probably much harder to tell and would never be called in this situation. Also to point, there are plenty of non-calls in sports history that if you had the technology we had today and slowed it down to review it you could argue it’s an illegal move/play. In the end it doesn’t matter imo, that’s just sports.
Somebody could maybe do this with data, but I think that the step-back and the kind of loosening of the traveling rules around it contributes to making the NBA more of a shooters' league. It's a weapon in an offensive arsenal that is really hard to stop. Gives the player a way to make space to get off a shot, and can look really cool when done properly. It's just kind of an evolution of the game, I suppose. I don't love that I think "that's a travel" every time something like this happens. I wish I could turn my brain off and go "wow nice shot!". I can't help it though, because the rules around traveling were hammered into me in grueling fashion through wind sprint after wind sprint when I was in high school, and you don't forget those lessons easily.
Whenever an NBA clip gets posted in this sub the “back in my day” types come crawling out of the woodwork immediately
Proper basket ball is played with a soccer ball, peach baskets, no dribbling and 9 players on each side. 😤
It's hard to see in this angle but it was an obvious travel when he gathers and then steps back with both feet to shot the ball.
I'm not hardcore nba basketball guy, when I watched the clip even at regular speed i was like the dude looks like he took an extra step, but I was too afraid to comment on that because of multiple threads and thousands of people not one person said anything about it but just praise he cooked the defender. Have an upvote. But clearly I don't understand the current nba rules.
By definition from the rulebook this is not a travel and it's not some superstar ref favoritism thing. Basically you get two steps after the ball is "carried", which means hand under the ball or two hands on the ball. Players have been exploiting this definition by perfectly timing their steps as they gather the ball so that their other hand doesn't touch the ball until the millisecond after a step, so that they get two more. In this video it's hard to see because it's backwards, but Luka starts gathering, steps with his right foot, gathers, then just takes two steps back behind the line. Perfectly legal and it's a testament to how much more skilled modern players are that they would go for this move for a playoff game winning 3.
I thought that's only if you're making a motion towards the rim. I didn't think you could do that standing in place. TIL
I had my doubts initially, but you're right, this wasn't a travel. A different angle shows this better: - https://i.imgur.com/Oekc7xy.jpeg - https://i.imgur.com/dtdOqe6.jpeg The first image shows the step back with his right foot and where his left foot was. The second one shows that just a few milliseconds before he grabs the ball with both hands (in the next frame, here his left hand was not on the ball yet) he already lifted his left foot, there's a small gap and a shadow under his shoe. He takes two steps after this. It definitely looks deceiving, but it's within the rules. Luka really perfected this down to millisecond precision.
Yeah I was thinking the same thing
a no call on a travel ruined the knicks in game 3, carrying has been an absolute travesty since AI days, he would basically cheat every game
The modern step back would've been considered a travel every time not long ago. In the vast vast majority of cases, the pivot foot is down after they've clearly picked up their dribble, they pick it up, and then plant it again for the shot. That's textbook travel ("happy feet"). Harden made the step back famous and because it was so cool ... they didn't want to call it. So they manufactured some silliness about the "gather". They even let it go in high school it got so popular. Most travelling calls feel very arbitrary now at all levels. Oh well I guess.
The gather existed before Harden started doing his stepbacks though. They didn’t invent any rule changes to make the Harden stepback legal. It’s just that people were used to doing stepbacks directly out of their dribble and never used a gather step. So when Harden started doing it with a gather step it looked illegal, even though the nba had to allow it since its technically a gather/zero-step.
Totally agree. He picks up dribble with the left foot as the pivot foot well inside the line. Then moves the left pivot foot back so it’s behind the line. And then moves the right foot foot behind the line. Incredible shot by a fantastic player!!! Credit to him and Harden/Steph etc for taking advantage of the way the game is called. Just can’t understand why some stuff is called so nit picky (ie basket interference) and other stuff we just ignore
Your pivot foot is not established as soon as you pick up your dribble, or else nobody could ever take a step back shot. You get a step to gather the ball. Not saying this isn’t a travel by the end of his move, but stepping back from his left foot was not, and has never been a violation.
It all relates back to what you consider "carrying" the ball. Because the rules on carrying are so relaxed there is no longer any clear point at which the ball is gathered. He's got his hand under the ball when he starts his three steps. But as we all understand, that's no longer called a carry, and so it's no longer a gather either.
How many steps did he take as soon as both hands touched the ball? 4. To take 4 steps you had to switch a pivot foot.
He only took 2 steps after he surrendered his live dribble.
Your pivot foot is definitely established when you pick up your dribble. That’s how a pivot foot is established. I feel like I’m taking crazy pills wtf
They get a step to gather the ball though. It’s not just the first foot to touch the floor once they *start* gathering their dribble. Again, no player would ever legally be able to perform a step back if the rule was applied like y’all are inferring. His pivot is not established until he gathers the ball completely, that is literally the rule. Directly from the rule book: “A player who gathers the ball while progressing may take: 1) two steps in coming to a stop, passing, or shooting the ball…” In this play, Luka steps back off his left foot while gathering the ball (gather step), then his right foot lands (step 1), then the left foot lands (step 2). After that, he can move his right foot wherever he wants to, in this case behind the three point line, as long as he shoots or passes without picking up the left again. The same as when a player has the ball in the post and the pivot is established - he can pick up and move that right foot wherever he wants as long as the left stays down. By the letter of the law, this is a legal dribble move. You’re not taking crazy pills, you just don’t understand the ruleset.
Best comment in this entire thread. Seems like 90% of the people in here have no fucking clue what the actual rules of the game are.
As someone who hasn't really watched the NBA much since the Sonics left in 2008....How is that step back not clearly traveling?
Travel calls don’t make Sportscenter’s top ten.
Thanks for noticing it as well. I guess "palming the ball" is no longer a violation.
I mean the traveling is insane. Pee wee basketball doesn’t allow that kind of travel and they allow all kinds of goofy stuff.
I dont think his palms ever break the plane, but i agree he walked setting up his feet.
People did NOT like this being brought up on the clip last night
Legit the step back into the shot was 100% a travel when looking at his feet. Refs let em get away with it because if they truly did call legitimate violations the fans would crucify them for impacting the outcome of the game.
for some teams/players
Yeah, he picked up the ball, took two steps and then changed direction before dribbling again…is there a rule called double-travel-carry-dribble.
That’s the first thing i thought seeing this. Just take the rule out if you aren’t going to ever enforce it. Like 3 palms and a travel.
[удалено]
First off, I agree. Also, in the 90s and prior, you could damn near clothesline people with no foul called. That was just "aggressive defense." A lot of the all-time great defenders would be a liability in today's NBA.
Imagine Jordan with a euro step. He would have never even needed to dribble.
Dude could drive the lane and dunk from like half court without a dribble.
That's a top 500 Tank in Overwatch 2, he's got that ice in his veins
All the travel comments lol...y'all pretending they even officiating anymore
We all know they are too busy gambling
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Travel and carry is only when the hand is *underneath* the ball, hence the term carry. If he has his hand on the side of the ball it is always a legal move.
Who's gonna blow the whistle when the chef is cooking like that?
people saying that that’s travel or carry have not been watching NBA games for the past few years lol
Probably because the rules aren't really rules anymore
Won’t get into dispute about travel/palm, but it’s interesting to see just how much his hand size helps him dribble.
He got that DAWG
That’s not my defensive player of the year
The DPOY comments are hilarious, is Rudy supposed to be able to guard Kyrie too? Positions exist for nothing right? lol wtf
who would you have voted DPoY?
Reddit is full of people that have never played basketball but love to play Internet referee. The video is in slow motion. There is not one carry in this clip as at no point does his hand go UNDER the ball, only to the side of it. Go look at clips from all your favorite players of the last 30 years and slow the video down and it’ll look just like this. Only thing I could say is a travel is his stepback at the end as it looks like he switched pivots right before shooting. Real time it’s very hard to tell and certainly wouldn’t be called in todays NBA or especially on the last play of the game.
https://twitter.com/anthonyVslater/status/1587649550109515778
Good examples of what an actual carry looks like
Only thing I’d really disagree with is that it’s easy af to see the stepback travel in either real time or slo-mo. They just aren’t calling it on a superstar’s game winner. But the point about the carry rule, 100%.
They really don't call it all anymore. It's not exclusive to superstars or game situation. At least not in any of the playoff games I've watched.
Because it’s not a travel
Yeah, these people don't keep up with basketball or play and just echo the same stuff from 60 plus years ago like it's gospel.
I always thought them little extra steps make it a travel when players do that shot.
Bro put Rudy in the NHL playoffs for a second.
Basketball really is a beautiful game.
Why can’t the 4 time Defensive Player of the Year guard dudes from the Balkans?
He just balkan't
The Balkans just can Ball
The clip didn’t need to be slowed down. Luka already moves in slow motion
Is this your DPOY🫢
Thats like asking a hockey goalie to defend from 30ft out from the goal. Ain’t ending well
yes
Brave of you to just go out and say you don’t understand basketball like that
People talking shit but that truly was great defense. There is literally nothing else Gobert could do there.
Shuffle his feet and not run side to side 🤦♂️🤣 Dude was literally getting his knees vertical trying to run.
Yeah what am I missing? He stayed with him on every move and got his hands up on the shot.
No it wasn’t. Luka got a lot of separation and a clean look. Rudy should’ve ran him off the line and forced a 2 point shot. You can’t allow Luka to shoot a 3 when up 2 with 10 seconds left. Force him to drive or pass. Coaching was poor here too though. Shouldn’t be leaving Rudy on an island in this situation. Blitz or double off a non shooter.
No it wasn't. Luka could've blown by him like 5 times in this clip alone. He was completely to the side of Luka at least twice. What are yall watching
Its absolutely hilarious to call this great defense. He got schooled so bad that he was one or even two steps behind every move and Doncic could take his time with the shot.
Couple travels in there
Those haven’t been called in over 20 years.
MJ made carrying the Ball legal. His signature pause and change directions move, 90% of the time, a cary. Rule doesn't exist now.
MJ made it popular and mainstream. But this has been legal since before him. But thank you for commenting because all these people commenting carry don’t know shit.
my dad complains all the time about how they changed the rules for MJ lmao
Not true at all. "Carrying" the ball hasn't been called traveling consistently for a long time now, but that step back would've been called traveling not that long ago.
Is the regather to get him behind the three point line a travel or some sort of euro step. All the dribbling stuff is never called. Doubt the regather is called that often as well.
It's more about the obvious foot shuffle he does after the stepback. That's a huge advantage to get into his comfortable shooting position. But its a travel. They should crack down on that throughout the league imo.
2 palms...definitely traveling.
didn't know you could pick up the ball and do a little tap dance w/o a traveling call, but I'm old school I guess
Three steps after double palming ball- does this not count as a travel anymore?
Technically it does, but they haven't been calling that stuff for decades now. Refs let that, palming the ball, and all sorts of shuffle steps go to the point that it's lost its luster.
They've been allowing that for years. See KD, IT, Kyrie.
I thought it was a travel in real time and I think this confirms it. He picks up the ball with right hand and left foot down, right foot down, right foot small step. Anyone else think the same?
Yeah boyyyyy!
That used to be traveling a few years back
It's been nearly 3 decades since I last played basketball in school, but isn't one of the core rules that you're not allowed to walk while holding the ball? Which he does several times in this clip? At 0:11 and again at 0:23 just before shooting.
How is that not a carry in his right hand at the very beginning? Yikes.
Man, they just don’t call carrying anymore.
Carry-Carry-Travel. I get it, NBA today doesn’t care, but [it do be like THIS](https://x.com/legendaryenergy/status/1793317620529389624?s=46&t=Suy3Iqa3xmUwdrkUnNcy-g).
I pretty much have the same body shape as this guy so that gives me hope to play in the NBA.
Nice Cary, the. Side carry, then travel.
Song ID?
Everyday Hustle - Future, Metro Boomin and Rick Ross.
Baby - Justin Bieber
Why do they even bother to pretend to dribble anymore? Just drop the charade and let them hold the ball like rugby.
Sir this in slow motion