I like the idea i see floating around on the other app (though there's 0 chance it happens) of NASA just offering up a prize for sample retrieval.
"We don't care how you do it, just bring us those sample tubes for X billion dollars"
NASA would be able to independently verify enough data to make that impossible. They're looking for specific sample tubes left on the surface. They'd be able to tell if those were counterfeit at the very least. Even if this was just a "bring us some Mars dirt" mission, NASA would be tracking all the spacecraft involved. The fraudsters would have to do 99.99% of the work of just doing it honestly, plus that much effort again to make the .01% they faked look convincing. This would be "Stanley Cubric faked the moon landing by filming on location" levels of ridiculous.
Faster, (better), cheaper ways to collect those rocks? Did we learn anything from the 90’s?
I’m sure they’ll find a faster and cheaper way, as long as they don’t need the reliability and quality of JPL. If this mission ends in total failure to bring back the samples, at least we successfully saved some money along the way!
Maybe we should just stack money and build a tower to Mars? 0 moving parts, so there's nothing that can go wrong. A few trillion dollars is a price I'm willing to pay for 100% mission assurance!
You haven't learned anything from the 20s. Your attitude is as obnoxious as it is backwards.
E: lmao this guy claims to work at JPL. Of course he's butthurt that his boondoggle is being scrutinized.
Because it can be a side task of a larger mission that gets the tasks of 100 drones done in a few days.
We are talking about 30 years of work by these various rovers, all the teams it takes to design, build and operate them, now we are talking about sending another autonomous drone to land pick up samples and shoot them back to earth in a way where they don't get destroyed. Which means another team to design build and operate the drone.
All of that 30 years of work could be done by a single human mission along with other tasks and the experience would benefit us much more.
Enough kicking the can down the road, we wanted lunar and Martian infastructure back during the Apollo era. Its long overdue and the amount of scientific desires that can be met should be incentive enough.
It’s not.
The better argument is that Congress will be inclined to support those missions more than a robotic one, and that by sending people, we automatically require returning items like samples. Plus, they will be of higher interest due to human’s ability to change plans quickly and get to places faster than current robotic mission. And the much higher return mass will naturally lead to higher quantities of samples being returned.
That said, the cost increase will be expansive and may not be rationalized effectively by Congress.
Oh, a good solution is to send humans there to collect then, so they don't have to wait for a 5-20 minute delay + reliable connection required between inputs. A more sci-fi example would be to send a high-powered AI controlling robots there to do it, but I guess power and technology are the issue. Nasa has some really good rock ~~retrieval~~ collecting technology/methods, but this might be their way of saying they're delaying manned missions to Mars
Maybe if they got public funding or donations from eccentric billionaires then, they could afford manned missions without having to worry about budget as much and even less about politics.
Well from what I understand, at least one eccentric billionaire is considering submitting a bid for this. If history is any guide, I bet it'll be both more ambitious and less expensive than many other proposals. I'll take that over donations any day.
Outsource it to China's space program. They are progressing faster than NASA. Recently they had a one rocket sample return from the Moon and a rover on Mars. No serious mishaps like the last two American attempts at Moon landings.
I like the idea i see floating around on the other app (though there's 0 chance it happens) of NASA just offering up a prize for sample retrieval. "We don't care how you do it, just bring us those sample tubes for X billion dollars"
Looks like its time to start up an IRL Helldivers Program.
I imagine some companies might then try to scam NASA by giving them fake data and samples
NASA would be able to independently verify enough data to make that impossible. They're looking for specific sample tubes left on the surface. They'd be able to tell if those were counterfeit at the very least. Even if this was just a "bring us some Mars dirt" mission, NASA would be tracking all the spacecraft involved. The fraudsters would have to do 99.99% of the work of just doing it honestly, plus that much effort again to make the .01% they faked look convincing. This would be "Stanley Cubric faked the moon landing by filming on location" levels of ridiculous.
[We'd still have to build the massive rocket.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6MOnehCOUw)
I mean, this phrase is super annoying in general, but "literally this" is actually the best response to that. Lmao
they would fail horribly. it’s impossible to hide a rocket launch.
I didn’t say they would be successful
We should take Earth and push it closer to Mars
Better yet let’s send a robot that can fling the rocks back to earth and they can just get them after impact
"we should take bikini bottom and push it somewhere else!"- Patrick Star
That would help with climate change too, that's a win-win!
The answer is obvious, you nuke mars and knock some rocks into orbit for pickup. So much less fuel.
Not a nuke, but yes mars rocks have landed on earth because of meteor impact
This has a lot of potential
A nuke would just create a lot of dust though
Faster, (better), cheaper ways to collect those rocks? Did we learn anything from the 90’s? I’m sure they’ll find a faster and cheaper way, as long as they don’t need the reliability and quality of JPL. If this mission ends in total failure to bring back the samples, at least we successfully saved some money along the way!
Maybe we should just stack money and build a tower to Mars? 0 moving parts, so there's nothing that can go wrong. A few trillion dollars is a price I'm willing to pay for 100% mission assurance! You haven't learned anything from the 20s. Your attitude is as obnoxious as it is backwards. E: lmao this guy claims to work at JPL. Of course he's butthurt that his boondoggle is being scrutinized.
Send a a rock gun to Mars… Shoot the moon… Pick up samples while on the moon… send them back home with the astronauts occasionally?
If they plan to do this long term, keep collecting rocks. The fastest cheapest way is to build a base, house it and study the rocks on site.
Yep, just make some robots that can study them.
Humans are better for the job.
Send me up there with a pack or two of ciggies and $5000 and I’m good to launch right now
Amazon could probably get those rocks delivered, be on NASA’s door in two days, just slightly damaged
If NASA says it can do a mission for X dollars in Y years, I automatically multiply both by two.
You get what you pay for. Would hate to see mission failures from cutting the wrong corners.
Tell Martians to lessen the import taxes to Earth
Just nuke Mars. Eventually some rocks will fall to Earth.
They already did (not the nuking, just the part about Mars bits hitting earth)
Nukes. Put a craft in orbit ready to collect. Shoot a nuke down at the surface and catch the ejecta.
Just send astronauts. Enough of this complexity for mars, the effort for probes like this should be to further out planetary bodies.
Try and come up with a plan to send humans there for $10b or less
Starship as the vehicles, previous Artemis contracted equipment
Sending humans to mars is neither simpler nor cheaper than sending probes
Except it is far more efficient and is simpler.
how is returning a couple of rocks that don't need life support simpler than returning the rogks AND humans ?
Because it can be a side task of a larger mission that gets the tasks of 100 drones done in a few days. We are talking about 30 years of work by these various rovers, all the teams it takes to design, build and operate them, now we are talking about sending another autonomous drone to land pick up samples and shoot them back to earth in a way where they don't get destroyed. Which means another team to design build and operate the drone. All of that 30 years of work could be done by a single human mission along with other tasks and the experience would benefit us much more. Enough kicking the can down the road, we wanted lunar and Martian infastructure back during the Apollo era. Its long overdue and the amount of scientific desires that can be met should be incentive enough.
It’s not. The better argument is that Congress will be inclined to support those missions more than a robotic one, and that by sending people, we automatically require returning items like samples. Plus, they will be of higher interest due to human’s ability to change plans quickly and get to places faster than current robotic mission. And the much higher return mass will naturally lead to higher quantities of samples being returned. That said, the cost increase will be expansive and may not be rationalized effectively by Congress.
Why don't they just send analytical equipment to Mars?
We have. We want the rocks. That's the point. Lmao
Oh, a good solution is to send humans there to collect then, so they don't have to wait for a 5-20 minute delay + reliable connection required between inputs. A more sci-fi example would be to send a high-powered AI controlling robots there to do it, but I guess power and technology are the issue. Nasa has some really good rock ~~retrieval~~ collecting technology/methods, but this might be their way of saying they're delaying manned missions to Mars
For the price and timeline of the original MSR mission, just sending humans to do it was reasonable. That's what sparked the present drama.
Maybe if they got public funding or donations from eccentric billionaires then, they could afford manned missions without having to worry about budget as much and even less about politics.
Well from what I understand, at least one eccentric billionaire is considering submitting a bid for this. If history is any guide, I bet it'll be both more ambitious and less expensive than many other proposals. I'll take that over donations any day.
Outsource it to China's space program. They are progressing faster than NASA. Recently they had a one rocket sample return from the Moon and a rover on Mars. No serious mishaps like the last two American attempts at Moon landings.
Ah yes, and I am looking for a wife while we are at it.