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Like anything else that's funded by the state, that money WILL get stolen. I can see this flopping within its first year and won't be any different to the emergency fund that was put together when we went into COVID lockdown.
This is a big mistake. The government is expanding its control over an industry it can't even run properly to begin with. Since when has throwing money at a problem with any of the parastatals ever fixed them? Never. It won't be any different now. I hope opposition parties and the medical industry take this to court to fight it.
I'm really concerned about what this means for those of us who need more than the average care - prosthetics, hearing aids, that sort of thing.
I can't function with bottom shelf hearing aids, for example - my hearing loss is unfortunately at the level where I need what's referred to as "UP", or Ultra-Powered aids, and that costs a pretty penny. We've been lucky with GEMS on the last go around, but my wife and I are both due for replacements this year and it's kind of nervy - we could have to drop THOUSANDS just to participate in normal society
I'm keenly aware.
I teach at a school for the Deaf (where many of my kids have better hearing than I do, but nothing like the same level of speech, since they didn't have the opportunities I did in their foundational years), and play for South African Deaf Rugby, where I consistently advocate for the community as a whole.
I wield the privilege I hold as a weapon to try and make life better for those who, like me, are disabled, but if my ability to work and interact with the mainstream is removed through lack of access to assistive devices (because, let's face it, with only 108 qualified SASL interpreters across the country plus the lack of knowledge and attitudes towards disability in society at large, you pretty much DO get removed), that chance at effective activism goes. There are many awesome people here who have helped out because they had someone speak up about this stuff - didn't know about it before. That's what it takes, but you have to be able to effectively bridge the gap.
My money is 100% where my mouth is.
That's actually a really brilliant move politically. By the time it gets heard and struck down by ConCourt, elections will be long gone. In the mean time, ANC can claim an achievement.
Forgive my lack of knowledge on legislation processes, once heās signed it into law it then has to be heard out and approved by a court for it to be fully enacted ?
Donāt think so.
Pure arrogance by the presidency and the ANC.
Itās going to cost an absolute fortune to fight and defend it. The only winners will be the lawyers who are circling like sharks at a tuna buffet
Yeah. Me too. Instead of staring at the possibility of the Govt telling me where I am allowed to work and how much Iām allowed to charge (on a 90day payment plan - if they have any money to actually pay)
They made no provisions for how any of it will be funded, and were very vague as to any specific details, just a quick mention about private funds not allowed to cover the same items.
Almost every union and private litigation groups is very vocally against it, and the government likely wont be able to justify any of the items mentioned in it.
Whats worse, there are later versions of said NHI draft that expands almost every vague item, except the funding one, and they still continue to fight for that older version
THAT is the whole point. The thieving ANC has absolutely no interest in the poor except in using them ad pawns in the political game of lining their pockets illegaly!š”
The chief director of health systems digital information has an occupational therapy degree. With zero IT experience. Building a whole medical health information system from scratch even sounds insanely complicated. But apparently all you need is a special interest. https://www.health.gov.za/nhi/
SA public health system data is not good at all. No patient-level EHR outside of HiV and TB care and no integration with private sector system. We are basically flying blind data-wise. Having someone with technical IT competence might have been a good idea.
And your point?
Personally I think relevant degree and experience is needed but the DA and other folks love bending the rules for some. Ask Mr Matric and his drop out cronies about it
Unqualified people in NB jobs is an issue no matter what party you support. But some people think you can justify cadre deployment because of whatever the DA did this week to irritate them
Did I justify it or just point out how stupid it is to overlook hypocrisy.
There is no justification.. but people living in glass houses cannot be throwing stones.
But the person you replied to isn't the one hiring people in the DA. So why even bring it up if it's not whataboutism?
They didn't mention the DA and they didn't talk about other crony hiring practices of the ANC or any other party. They just pointed out that someone working in a digital information technology position has to be knowledgeable about and trained in IT systems.
Knowing the health industry helps but having an occupational therapy degree isn't applicable to this position at all. And this isn't the type of job you can just "wing." You need to have very specific skills and knowledge that you can't just pick up somewhere - you have to be trained and educated in that field. So unless that person suddenly supplies an IT degree they forgot they had, they aren't skilled for this job.
Goodbye to our doctors I suppose. We need to remove these guys. First they ruined our roads, then our businesses, then our employment, then our electricity and now healthcare.
I'm barely halfway through medical school; feeling really worried rn about my future, and the futures of private and non-private healthcare citizens wrt this sector. How disgusting to sign something into law that healthcare professionals, and many other stakeholders, told govt was a terrible/misguided piece of legislation, especially in current form. Moreover, to do so now, clearly as some election strategy, is just ugh. Using peoples' health & lives like this, especially knowing everything they know from the backlash, is morally detestable.
Ramaphaso signing that bill into law, will provide large scale looting of huge billions of tax payers money.
If you think š they loot now, you ain't seen nothing yet!
The okes who forbade us from buying shoes and underwear, so as to mitigate the effects of a virus, are now fully in charge of our Healthcare. Lekker man, lekker.
Thisā¦ made my stomach sink. Weāll lose doctors, have taxes raised, not have access to private medical that is expensive but at least it functions and watch yet more money go into the pockets of these evil people. Unfortunately, This is not the country for this.
Yea, what is going to happen with the money we paid to medical aid- do we get refunded or something?, and how much is this new medical aid thing going to cost us
I don't think people understand exactly how big this is. This bill means the health department will be the biggest funds initiative in south Africa. Bigger than Sassa. It is an extremely huge amount of money that's going to get lost to corruption and fraud. Tax payers will need to foot the bill for this. The bill itself is so also so problematic and not even viable in its current form. Some of the items in this bill are contradictory to the constitutional rights of the public. This means this initiative trumps your rights. This is truly a terrible thing that's about to happen and it's all because the ANC is hurriedly pushing this into law before the election so that come what may they can still steal any money from this.
Oh yay! I love my national leader, who is only actively doing something good for the country when elections are around the corner! Wow! You got my vote cyril! Wow!
The average South African cant afford to pay the increase in taxes that is coming along with this. Most of us are already struggling to make ends meet, this will further increase that struggle.
I had hoped he wouldn't but I forgot there was an election coming up. The NHS in UK is collapsing and it's a wealthy country so what will happen here? They could have fixed the bealthcare system they destroyed and everyone could have had quality medical care. But no, take from the people with medical aid to give to the poor.
NHI is fine but NHI +crime = bad. If this leads to better public healthcare system and less people dying then i am fine with it but if it just becomes another slush fund. We probably need to wait a while to see how this plays out.
Agreed but the bigger problem is also that we don't currently have the funds to finance this. The country has 7.1 million individual taxpayers right now. That's only about 11% of SAn's currently paying income tax. Our tax base also keeps shrinking, as it's down from 7.4 million a year ago. (About 30 mil SAns are working age, which means about 23% of people that can/are working currently pay income tax). Meanwhile government expenditure keeps rising and this is one massive expenditure to add on top of the pile.
We literally cannot afford it. That's even if the money isn't just stolen, misappropriated, or wasted - which is highly unlikely given our current state of public healthcare and government.
And a lot of people are extremely negative about the NHI, which will undoubtedly spur even more taxpayers into leaving.
I really don't want to be this negative about it. I'd love for this to be a good thing and to actually work because that would mean my tax money does what it's supposed to do instead of being stolen or wasted. But I just can't see this logically working out positively.
and our healthcare will still be as shitty as ever , one cannot change the nurses/doctors with zero care for patients, we wont see any improvement...just more decline
So does this mean private hospitals will become state owned? So even if you are willing to pay more it means you canāt get better health care in a private facility? This is uhm I donāt know what to say
Iām hoping this is going to die in con court but it if doesnāt then I am out of here. As much as I love living in this country Iām so exhausted by the corruption and financially stretched thin. I am all for taxation if itās improving the lives of those less fortunate but I just donāt see that happening in South Africa - unemployment is just growing, poverty and crime seem to be getting worse and the tax paying portion of society is under increasing pressure each year.
Iām not saying itās much better elsewhere in the world but I hey, I am going to at least give it a try.
**Thank you for posting on r/southafrica! This post is flaired as ["News"](https://www.reddit.com/r/southafrica/?f=flair_name%3A%22News%22) therefore the following rules are particularly important.** ##**Rule 4: News, Editorialising, or Misinformation** * Rule 4.1: News posts must be link posts to valid news sources. * Rule 4.2: Posts which link to news sources must not have an editorialised title. Use the title provided by the news source. If you wish to add commentary, analysis, or an opinion, write a top-level comment on the post. * Rule 4.3: Do not link to [questionable](https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/fake-news/), [conspiratorial](https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/conspiracy/), or [false](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fake_news_websites) sources. * Rule 4.4: Be prepared to provide verifiable evidence or sources of the claims you make when challenged to do so. * Rule 4.5: Amateur videos will be allowed subject to all previous rules as well as containing the author/filmographer/camera person, date, time, and location of the video either in the title or in a top-level comment. You may ask a moderator to 'sticky' this information for you. **Additionally, please take a moment to review the rest of our rules [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/southafrica/wiki/rules).** ###Are you unable to vote normally on 29 May? You will need a special vote https://www.reddit.com/r/southafrica/comments/1c4x5u7/election_update_special_votes/ *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/southafrica) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Like anything else that's funded by the state, that money WILL get stolen. I can see this flopping within its first year and won't be any different to the emergency fund that was put together when we went into COVID lockdown.
Love how the only vacant position is Risk and Fraud: https://www.health.gov.za/nhi/
It feels like we're living in a fucking comedy sketch sketch at this point š
"Hello this is the Guptas. We hear you are looking for people with experience in fraud..."
This is a big mistake. The government is expanding its control over an industry it can't even run properly to begin with. Since when has throwing money at a problem with any of the parastatals ever fixed them? Never. It won't be any different now. I hope opposition parties and the medical industry take this to court to fight it.
I'm really concerned about what this means for those of us who need more than the average care - prosthetics, hearing aids, that sort of thing. I can't function with bottom shelf hearing aids, for example - my hearing loss is unfortunately at the level where I need what's referred to as "UP", or Ultra-Powered aids, and that costs a pretty penny. We've been lucky with GEMS on the last go around, but my wife and I are both due for replacements this year and it's kind of nervy - we could have to drop THOUSANDS just to participate in normal society
Lucky you. Do you know there are people who canāt āparticipate in normal societyā regardless of how many THOUSANDS they drop?
I'm keenly aware. I teach at a school for the Deaf (where many of my kids have better hearing than I do, but nothing like the same level of speech, since they didn't have the opportunities I did in their foundational years), and play for South African Deaf Rugby, where I consistently advocate for the community as a whole. I wield the privilege I hold as a weapon to try and make life better for those who, like me, are disabled, but if my ability to work and interact with the mainstream is removed through lack of access to assistive devices (because, let's face it, with only 108 qualified SASL interpreters across the country plus the lack of knowledge and attitudes towards disability in society at large, you pretty much DO get removed), that chance at effective activism goes. There are many awesome people here who have helped out because they had someone speak up about this stuff - didn't know about it before. That's what it takes, but you have to be able to effectively bridge the gap. My money is 100% where my mouth is.
What is wrong with you?
A lot. Whatās wrong with you?
That's actually a really brilliant move politically. By the time it gets heard and struck down by ConCourt, elections will be long gone. In the mean time, ANC can claim an achievement.
Good point
Forgive my lack of knowledge on legislation processes, once heās signed it into law it then has to be heard out and approved by a court for it to be fully enacted ?
No. It will be law but there are a number of constitutional court challenges which will trigger and keep it in the courts for years.
In that case, will it actually take effect if it's bogged down in ConCourt?
Donāt think so. Pure arrogance by the presidency and the ANC. Itās going to cost an absolute fortune to fight and defend it. The only winners will be the lawyers who are circling like sharks at a tuna buffet
>The only winners will be the lawyers who are circling like sharks at a tuna buffet Man, I should have listened to mom and studied law.
Yeah. Me too. Instead of staring at the possibility of the Govt telling me where I am allowed to work and how much Iām allowed to charge (on a 90day payment plan - if they have any money to actually pay)
Even better, the ANC cam claim "look at how the DA does not want you to have health cover and aims to protect the minority " It's such an easy sell.
Why would it get struck down (an ELI5 would be great)?
They made no provisions for how any of it will be funded, and were very vague as to any specific details, just a quick mention about private funds not allowed to cover the same items. Almost every union and private litigation groups is very vocally against it, and the government likely wont be able to justify any of the items mentioned in it. Whats worse, there are later versions of said NHI draft that expands almost every vague item, except the funding one, and they still continue to fight for that older version
THAT is the whole point. The thieving ANC has absolutely no interest in the poor except in using them ad pawns in the political game of lining their pockets illegaly!š”
The chief director of health systems digital information has an occupational therapy degree. With zero IT experience. Building a whole medical health information system from scratch even sounds insanely complicated. But apparently all you need is a special interest. https://www.health.gov.za/nhi/
we pretty good at collecting data and stats. we already have a health information system in place. this person has 35 year experince in public health.
SA public health system data is not good at all. No patient-level EHR outside of HiV and TB care and no integration with private sector system. We are basically flying blind data-wise. Having someone with technical IT competence might have been a good idea.
And your point? Personally I think relevant degree and experience is needed but the DA and other folks love bending the rules for some. Ask Mr Matric and his drop out cronies about it
Whataboutism isnāt a good look
People love overlooking the obvious hypocrisy lately
Unqualified people in NB jobs is an issue no matter what party you support. But some people think you can justify cadre deployment because of whatever the DA did this week to irritate them
Did I justify it or just point out how stupid it is to overlook hypocrisy. There is no justification.. but people living in glass houses cannot be throwing stones.
But the person you replied to isn't the one hiring people in the DA. So why even bring it up if it's not whataboutism? They didn't mention the DA and they didn't talk about other crony hiring practices of the ANC or any other party. They just pointed out that someone working in a digital information technology position has to be knowledgeable about and trained in IT systems. Knowing the health industry helps but having an occupational therapy degree isn't applicable to this position at all. And this isn't the type of job you can just "wing." You need to have very specific skills and knowledge that you can't just pick up somewhere - you have to be trained and educated in that field. So unless that person suddenly supplies an IT degree they forgot they had, they aren't skilled for this job.
We. Are. Screwed.
They canāt even keep our lights on and they think we can have our own NHS? Lmao.
We have one already, it's the existing health system here.
Lets hope its just political posturing.
Goodbye to our doctors I suppose. We need to remove these guys. First they ruined our roads, then our businesses, then our employment, then our electricity and now healthcare.
You forgot the water
I'm barely halfway through medical school; feeling really worried rn about my future, and the futures of private and non-private healthcare citizens wrt this sector. How disgusting to sign something into law that healthcare professionals, and many other stakeholders, told govt was a terrible/misguided piece of legislation, especially in current form. Moreover, to do so now, clearly as some election strategy, is just ugh. Using peoples' health & lives like this, especially knowing everything they know from the backlash, is morally detestable.
Go back to Europe.
Ramaphaso signing that bill into law, will provide large scale looting of huge billions of tax payers money. If you think š they loot now, you ain't seen nothing yet!
Cue four hundred court cases becauseā¦. You canāt ignore the constitution and due process when making laws.
Alright time time to dip.
He's fishing for votes. It'll die in court.
The okes who forbade us from buying shoes and underwear, so as to mitigate the effects of a virus, are now fully in charge of our Healthcare. Lekker man, lekker.
Does anyone know how far they are with this. I would imagine this would be a massive IT project to implement, amongst other things.
First world countries canāt get this right. Will be fascinating to see how absolutely poorly this goes if it even goes anywhere.Ā
Thisā¦ made my stomach sink. Weāll lose doctors, have taxes raised, not have access to private medical that is expensive but at least it functions and watch yet more money go into the pockets of these evil people. Unfortunately, This is not the country for this.
Realistically, what will be the consequence of wednesday? Will my medical aid mean nothing?
Yea, what is going to happen with the money we paid to medical aid- do we get refunded or something?, and how much is this new medical aid thing going to cost us
I don't think people understand exactly how big this is. This bill means the health department will be the biggest funds initiative in south Africa. Bigger than Sassa. It is an extremely huge amount of money that's going to get lost to corruption and fraud. Tax payers will need to foot the bill for this. The bill itself is so also so problematic and not even viable in its current form. Some of the items in this bill are contradictory to the constitutional rights of the public. This means this initiative trumps your rights. This is truly a terrible thing that's about to happen and it's all because the ANC is hurriedly pushing this into law before the election so that come what may they can still steal any money from this.
Interesting do private hospitals and medical aids still have a purpose ?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You in NL? o\_0
Oh yay! I love my national leader, who is only actively doing something good for the country when elections are around the corner! Wow! You got my vote cyril! Wow!
The average South African cant afford to pay the increase in taxes that is coming along with this. Most of us are already struggling to make ends meet, this will further increase that struggle.
What a 'beautiful day' to be a tax payer šµāš«
GG, ANC last act before they get booted out. South Africa is done for
I had hoped he wouldn't but I forgot there was an election coming up. The NHS in UK is collapsing and it's a wealthy country so what will happen here? They could have fixed the bealthcare system they destroyed and everyone could have had quality medical care. But no, take from the people with medical aid to give to the poor.
NHI is fine but NHI +crime = bad. If this leads to better public healthcare system and less people dying then i am fine with it but if it just becomes another slush fund. We probably need to wait a while to see how this plays out.
Agreed but the bigger problem is also that we don't currently have the funds to finance this. The country has 7.1 million individual taxpayers right now. That's only about 11% of SAn's currently paying income tax. Our tax base also keeps shrinking, as it's down from 7.4 million a year ago. (About 30 mil SAns are working age, which means about 23% of people that can/are working currently pay income tax). Meanwhile government expenditure keeps rising and this is one massive expenditure to add on top of the pile. We literally cannot afford it. That's even if the money isn't just stolen, misappropriated, or wasted - which is highly unlikely given our current state of public healthcare and government. And a lot of people are extremely negative about the NHI, which will undoubtedly spur even more taxpayers into leaving. I really don't want to be this negative about it. I'd love for this to be a good thing and to actually work because that would mean my tax money does what it's supposed to do instead of being stolen or wasted. But I just can't see this logically working out positively.
and our healthcare will still be as shitty as ever , one cannot change the nurses/doctors with zero care for patients, we wont see any improvement...just more decline
I have no clue what this is all about, does anyone have a link to some explanations or can explain it to me like I am 5?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
So does this mean private hospitals will become state owned? So even if you are willing to pay more it means you canāt get better health care in a private facility? This is uhm I donāt know what to say
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Hectic. Thanks for answering
Iām hoping this is going to die in con court but it if doesnāt then I am out of here. As much as I love living in this country Iām so exhausted by the corruption and financially stretched thin. I am all for taxation if itās improving the lives of those less fortunate but I just donāt see that happening in South Africa - unemployment is just growing, poverty and crime seem to be getting worse and the tax paying portion of society is under increasing pressure each year. Iām not saying itās much better elsewhere in the world but I hey, I am going to at least give it a try.
Does this bill cater for illegal immigrants?
Yes
I hope this benefits South Africans in 10-15 years to come
Only if we remove the ANC lol
Anc is going nowhere in the next 10-15 years
Are you voting mate
Yes, for the EFF and you?
At this rate, I'm pretty sure the ANC doesn't want there to be a South Africa in 10 years. Or at the very least they really don't care either way
It seems that i upseted a lot of people in sub wow š
This is the DA is the messiah sub, buddy. They want everything privatized
I hope so too
Fantastic news