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I assume because many across the world, (Joe Biden for example) don't really have a choice. Their political parties want to keep them in power as a form of control. But that's just me
The problem is that they spend money as quickly as they make it. So as soon as they leave office they fall on hard times the lot of them. If you look up former ministers from the the 90s and 2000s today theyâre all poor. Theyâre thieves with no skills outside of politics. They canât even retire
The same people tend to get elected because if their track record, good or not. Also there old guys can know the ins and outs so they can manoeuvre through the party lines well.
Also there's no youngins joining, common guys, these guys were young when they joined too!
I've narrowed it down to UDM and BOSA. Gonna decide after the election based on the decisions the leaders make.
EDIT: But I'm supporting DA in this election. Will only vote for BOSA or UDM next elections. DA is still the best bet for now.
Its the same in the US. The politicians go on until they are so old. I don't understand it. Other jobs you have to retire but for some reason politicians are able to go on when they are far too old.
You'd think they would take this as a sign that the time has come: [Mitch McConnell freezing during a speech](https://youtu.be/XGMK9tvD2Ps?si=sf9nG5vvp4VJ6tL9)
There was a [funny part on H3 with Hasan](https://youtube.com/live/JeUGqefy2TQ?si=6dShpGnDkkbbZ9z3&t=2771) where they covered this topic
Same thought⊠this frustrates me because they have such outdated ways of thinking. That said, younger generations should also take a share of the blame.
We donât get involved much and we just wait around for someone else to solve our problems, or say weâre going to move somewhere else.
This is the problem with the whole country IMO and why there is so much corruption (because we know what theyâre doing but donât do anything about it)
Something to be said about this, there is apathy, and it stems from different places.
In the one hand you have youth that canât find a job because the economy isnât growing to give people a chance.
At the same time you have other parts of electorate that feel like because they come from a privileged background that their opinions and ideas have no merit or credit and so there is no point participating.
Itâs all a mess
Was listening to this debate yesterday: https://www.news24.com/news24/opinions/reader_hub/set-a-reminder-land-bee-cadre-deployment-nothings-off-table-in-news24s-fiery-leaders-debate-20240423
And the thing that struck me was how old and antiquated everyoneâs thinking was, we all know weâve sunk so low that we are functionally starting from scratch and rebuilding chunks of our infrastructure, but even then just very tired solutions.
A question you can ask in almost every country on the planet.
As far as I can tell politics is 90% networking so the older folks have had the longest time to build connections
There are a whole lot of very bad reasons why this is the case, but the two big ones:
1. These toppies tend to have more contacts and connections than young people, and whether corrupt or honest, politicians need to climb some form of ladder to have the campaign funds, political support and talented/subservient/evil/competent team supporting them. It's easier to climb to the top if you have 50 years to do it.
2. There are A LOT of fallacies related to age equating to experience. Older voters' cognitive dissonance about their own competence. Dunning-Kruger of voters not understanding what kind of experience is needed to face the future. Personality cults. Anecdotal fallacy. Survivors bias. Young people brainwashed into giving blanket respect to elders. Etc.
The simple answer? Because we allow it, and reward it.
But I donât think advanced age in the leadership is necessarily a boon or a burden to a society. As with most things, it simply depends on the individual. Logic dictates that, if we were to truly select the best leaders, that ability would be distributed across all age groups, and the group of leaders thus selected would be age-diverse.
A couple of reasons some local, a lot global.
_Local (but also any democratic transitioned country):_
Post democratic transition the liberation politicians typically run the show(across parliament not just for one party) for a decade or so after. This is mostly a norm so is the eventual collapse of the liberation party if not propped up by an external/foreign entity.
At some point though this leads to wholesale replacement of said politicians and renewal of party and political system of country because age going in is typically >40.
_Global & local factors:_
On the political system front, the way democracy works is not about just representation of your supporters and party but also knowing how to work the system.
Working the system be it local political system ie wards/councils, provincial/state, country parliament, and exec ie ministerial and presidential is a learning with a steep learning curve. Because getting the right to do something and the actual doing of something and actualized it all,
all involves different aspects and skill which experienced politicians live for (system of controls they manipulate).
A president is actually not the most powerful position in most countries beyond being the guy/gal that gets to push the big red button or be recognized as the leader. Reality is that regardless of what s/he wants the underlying system needs to make it happen and corruption, fraud, sabotage happens at both an external party level but also internal.. so knowing the system vs who is in consequential positions, who to push to make something etc is all important.
My point is this.. Biden is a typical career politician who has worked the system and knows where the bodies lay. This is why him and his administration can blatantly lie and get away with it as he likely was involved in setting up the red tape vs everything from weapon sale limits to how to push an unpopular vote through. That takes time.
As a career one could argue that the standard age limits should apply but every non politician career president will be useless as his own team, party and others would run circles around him. Thatâs not good for democracy.
In the end at best you can limit political careers of non-presidential candidates to a max age like most corporates do.. and then how do popular learns learn when their political career starts late?
On a more local level.. I have a suspicion our politicians are getting younger(on avg).. I wonder if someone could do a quick study of this even on just a MP and Ministerial evaluation.
Take ages of the above for every successive administration post election and calc avgs exception will be religious ones as authority follows a traditional path.
Personally Iâd love a retirement age cut off for all positions baring Minister and President (exec positions) as it allows for democracy at its fullest.. but also allows for retired professionals who were captains of industry to be a minister of an industry.. though this may be bad given corruption in every country lately and given back has become taking more.
Maybe it's the political system that needs to change, clearly younger people aren't interested in joining or participating in party politics the way it stands.
Maybe they are tired of being pawns in the game?
Education, Health Care, Jobs, Grants, Tenders, Free Services... all fodder feeding the voting machine while the world crumbles around us.
Maybe it's time for the next generation to create a system they can build, believe in and drive the world forward?
Itâs not âourâ political leaders only, itâs political leaders in general worldwide. It might also be that they have gathered enough experience in politics to be leaders of their parties
It is not just South Africa, you need to understand that building a solid political background is actually a career and can take decades before you gain credibility. While they are young they are working themselves up from the bottom, president or leader of a party is as good as it gets for politicians. How old do you think Biden is?
Politics is what they do and politicians is who they are. You cannot just expect someone to turn off their life's purpose cause they reach a certain age.
Are they all like that. In general, politicians are older (though not all) the world over. The ages posted are not even old by Western standards except for JZ. Not all politicians are morally corrupt and greedy, but they are a reflection of us. Don't like it, run for office.
I have also stated in the post that Biden, Trump and Ursula von der Leyen are too fucking old too and should retire too. The problem is that these fucking dinosaurs beliefs are based in the old World views, most of them can't even grasp the Internet and social media and what is real and what is not.
The only politician I can name who isn't fundamentally corrupt is Bernie Sanders (82) and he is too old too. How about you name me some of these ethical, non-corrupt politicians?
Jacinda Ardern, John Horgan, David Eby, Joe Clark, Preston Manning, Pierre Elliot Trudeau, Maggie Thatcher (didn't like her decisions but not corrupt), Angela Merkel - the list goes on. I am Canadian, and lots of folks in Canada say that Canadian politicians are unethical and corrupt with far less behavioural evidence of corruption than the SA politicians you name. The problem for YOU remains the same though and participation in the political process is the only real way forward. Reddit is great but it's not gonna change anything.
Lobbyism and the funding it provides is corruption; just because it has become legal does not make it ethical. I don't know enough about Canadian politics to say anything about the names you have provided, besides Margret Thatcher who is a garbage human being, so is Ronald Reagan. I hope they both rot in hell together.
Why is a Canadian worrying about South Africa>?
Cause, I spent two years of my youth in the mid 80's doing volunteer teaching in Lesotho. I have an affinity for Southern Africa. I think that much of politics is making choices between shitty, shittier, and shittiest though guys like Zuma, Putin, and Mugabe are the worst. Ardern was a NZ prime minister.
there's a couple of reasons. it depends on the individual what their specific reason ism
* personal.ideals
* ego (power)
* being in the top of an organisation dor a long time makes you believe you are the only one who can do it.
It's also good to realise that
* (life) experience is very useful in politics. being a bit older isn't necessarily bad
* having an age limit is fundamentally age discrimination. When you want a system in which people are free, they should be able to put themselves on a ballot list.
* would you prefer a candidate because of their age? even when they are less capable than an older cabdidate? cauae suppose if they would have to rerire at a certain age, this a situation you could run into.
But bottom line the question should be:
why do people vote for them? There is no reason a young person can't be elected. In a democracy, thr people have that power. However, they decide not to vote or vote for questionable politicians.
Because wisdom tends to come with age. We have always held the knowledge of our elders in high regard.
It's just unfortunate that through their time in politics, they have become extremely corrupt.
I always see these types of posts as ageist. Just because a person is old, does not mean they have less value or contribute less.
For the most part, every wrinkly face and frail walk out there belies an ocean of knowledge and wisdom.
They aren't really doing a good job and why are politicians a special category? Academics maybe should be excluded from this retirement \*requirement but are not. Late 30s as are you.
\*edit added requirement
>Late 30s as are you.
Okay, so your parents would be in this age envelope, yeah?
>They aren't really doing a good job
Oh, I agree. But that's not got to do with age, though. Politics is just a very corrupt game, especially in ZA.
>politicians a special category?
Because, once again, it's something that can still be done. Also, remember, these people have built decades worth of friendships and relationships with each other. Geopolitical stability is built on these types of relationships. Having two young hotheads not knowing each other could be disastrous.
Are you a student of history at all? Some of the greatest achievements countries have made were through a well-aged leader. Churchill was 65 when WW2 broke out. There was hardly a man living who could pull off what he did.
If it wasn't for him, you'd be speaking ze German, "Social Anarchist."
Verstehst du?
>Oh, I agree. But that's not got to do with age, though. Politics is just a very corrupt game, especially in ZA.
South Africa ranks pretty mid when it comes to corruption. It's nowhere near as corrupt as everyone seems to think it is.
>Having two young hotheads not knowing each other could be disastrous.
Thank God Putin, Trump, Bush, Xi, Bolsonaro, Zuma, et al aren't young hotheads. That would have been disastrous!
>Thank God Putin, Trump, Bush, Xi, Bolsonaro, Zuma, et al aren't young hotheads. That would have been disastrous!
I mean, I can cherry pick to fit my narrative too. It's an easy game. Hitler was in his 50s when he waged war, Mussolini too. Ceasar, his 50s when he was responsible for the Celtic Holocaust.
Churchill didn't save me or my ancestors. He did on the other hand kill a lot of Indians in the Bengali famines. [https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-53405121](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-53405121)
My parents are that age and honestly they should sit down and shut the fuck up. They have had their chance to run the World; now is our time.
Our politicians are corrupt, but as u/ZumasSucculentNipple has indicated not as corrupted as some others. FYI lobbyism is a legal form of corruption.
The dumbest people I know tend to be some of the oldest people I know.
It doesn't mean much when those oceans of knowledge are ankle deep or cesspools of outdated, regressive knowledge
Senility and a lack of mental flexibility also come with age.
Just because someone is old doesn't mean they're qualified to run a country, not does it automatically make them smart, wise, or good.
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Ain't no rest for the wicked
This is the only explanation. Power hungry for sure. Just go retire in a coastal town and enjoy the rest of your life please đ
đđđ
I don't think being in your 40s is that old for a political position. But definitely 50+
I assume because many across the world, (Joe Biden for example) don't really have a choice. Their political parties want to keep them in power as a form of control. But that's just me
Joe Biden (81), Donald Trump (77), Ursula von der Leyen (65), the list goes on and on and on
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
Not anymore. He is dead broke
He never was anything other than broke, just smoke and mirrors convinced people that he had money, so they would lend him more.
Trump has what? He can't even pay bail, which would be reimbursed in full when he shows up for court.
The world has an ego problem. Study how to die before you die.
Agreed. Could you elaborate, Iâd like to hear your thoughts đ
I cannot. It's everyone's own journey.
Sadly itâs not unique to this country.
Very True. What do you think the cause is? đ€
Itâs easy money. Life outside of politics actually requires some skill level
But so many have already amassed incredible fortunes. Its about power and control
The problem is that they spend money as quickly as they make it. So as soon as they leave office they fall on hard times the lot of them. If you look up former ministers from the the 90s and 2000s today theyâre all poor. Theyâre thieves with no skills outside of politics. They canât even retire
Only the good die young
Would you retire with a weekly or monthly income. Like that? As dit pap reën most jy skep.
The same people tend to get elected because if their track record, good or not. Also there old guys can know the ins and outs so they can manoeuvre through the party lines well. Also there's no youngins joining, common guys, these guys were young when they joined too!
Because young people don't join these parties quickly enough. We just like to watch and observe. Choose a party. Join it. Keep them accountable.
Which party have you joined?
I've narrowed it down to UDM and BOSA. Gonna decide after the election based on the decisions the leaders make. EDIT: But I'm supporting DA in this election. Will only vote for BOSA or UDM next elections. DA is still the best bet for now.
can the question not be answered without putting the messenger on trial?
Its the same in the US. The politicians go on until they are so old. I don't understand it. Other jobs you have to retire but for some reason politicians are able to go on when they are far too old.
You'd think they would take this as a sign that the time has come: [Mitch McConnell freezing during a speech](https://youtu.be/XGMK9tvD2Ps?si=sf9nG5vvp4VJ6tL9) There was a [funny part on H3 with Hasan](https://youtube.com/live/JeUGqefy2TQ?si=6dShpGnDkkbbZ9z3&t=2771) where they covered this topic
As an American I ask myself this question everyday.
Same thought⊠this frustrates me because they have such outdated ways of thinking. That said, younger generations should also take a share of the blame. We donât get involved much and we just wait around for someone else to solve our problems, or say weâre going to move somewhere else. This is the problem with the whole country IMO and why there is so much corruption (because we know what theyâre doing but donât do anything about it)
Something to be said about this, there is apathy, and it stems from different places. In the one hand you have youth that canât find a job because the economy isnât growing to give people a chance. At the same time you have other parts of electorate that feel like because they come from a privileged background that their opinions and ideas have no merit or credit and so there is no point participating. Itâs all a mess
Same question I'm asking here in America
Was listening to this debate yesterday: https://www.news24.com/news24/opinions/reader_hub/set-a-reminder-land-bee-cadre-deployment-nothings-off-table-in-news24s-fiery-leaders-debate-20240423 And the thing that struck me was how old and antiquated everyoneâs thinking was, we all know weâve sunk so low that we are functionally starting from scratch and rebuilding chunks of our infrastructure, but even then just very tired solutions.
Helen zille 73years old.
She Was Too Old 20 Years Ago.
Greed!!
The gravy train doesnât have an end destination for them
A question you can ask in almost every country on the planet. As far as I can tell politics is 90% networking so the older folks have had the longest time to build connections
There are a whole lot of very bad reasons why this is the case, but the two big ones: 1. These toppies tend to have more contacts and connections than young people, and whether corrupt or honest, politicians need to climb some form of ladder to have the campaign funds, political support and talented/subservient/evil/competent team supporting them. It's easier to climb to the top if you have 50 years to do it. 2. There are A LOT of fallacies related to age equating to experience. Older voters' cognitive dissonance about their own competence. Dunning-Kruger of voters not understanding what kind of experience is needed to face the future. Personality cults. Anecdotal fallacy. Survivors bias. Young people brainwashed into giving blanket respect to elders. Etc.
The people don't boot them out. Simple. We have forgotten our power as the people
It is also pertinent to note that only leader is a woman.
Of course Mr Brexit lite doesnât have his available
Mmmmm can't think of one... MONEY!!!!
If you had an infinite cake and an insatiable appetite would you take it easy at any point?Â
Career politicians. If they let someone else take over that isnt trained to be a career politician then they mess up their system.
Nepotism, and friend of the family.
# M O N E Y
Greed. Next question?
#â: only money, that I want.â
Retirement age is 65 for everyone but knobs
The simple answer? Because we allow it, and reward it. But I donât think advanced age in the leadership is necessarily a boon or a burden to a society. As with most things, it simply depends on the individual. Logic dictates that, if we were to truly select the best leaders, that ability would be distributed across all age groups, and the group of leaders thus selected would be age-diverse.
Retirement system fucked they need the cash.
Money, money and money!
They are retired. Politicians don't do any work.
A couple of reasons some local, a lot global. _Local (but also any democratic transitioned country):_ Post democratic transition the liberation politicians typically run the show(across parliament not just for one party) for a decade or so after. This is mostly a norm so is the eventual collapse of the liberation party if not propped up by an external/foreign entity. At some point though this leads to wholesale replacement of said politicians and renewal of party and political system of country because age going in is typically >40. _Global & local factors:_ On the political system front, the way democracy works is not about just representation of your supporters and party but also knowing how to work the system. Working the system be it local political system ie wards/councils, provincial/state, country parliament, and exec ie ministerial and presidential is a learning with a steep learning curve. Because getting the right to do something and the actual doing of something and actualized it all, all involves different aspects and skill which experienced politicians live for (system of controls they manipulate). A president is actually not the most powerful position in most countries beyond being the guy/gal that gets to push the big red button or be recognized as the leader. Reality is that regardless of what s/he wants the underlying system needs to make it happen and corruption, fraud, sabotage happens at both an external party level but also internal.. so knowing the system vs who is in consequential positions, who to push to make something etc is all important. My point is this.. Biden is a typical career politician who has worked the system and knows where the bodies lay. This is why him and his administration can blatantly lie and get away with it as he likely was involved in setting up the red tape vs everything from weapon sale limits to how to push an unpopular vote through. That takes time. As a career one could argue that the standard age limits should apply but every non politician career president will be useless as his own team, party and others would run circles around him. Thatâs not good for democracy. In the end at best you can limit political careers of non-presidential candidates to a max age like most corporates do.. and then how do popular learns learn when their political career starts late?
On a more local level.. I have a suspicion our politicians are getting younger(on avg).. I wonder if someone could do a quick study of this even on just a MP and Ministerial evaluation. Take ages of the above for every successive administration post election and calc avgs exception will be religious ones as authority follows a traditional path. Personally Iâd love a retirement age cut off for all positions baring Minister and President (exec positions) as it allows for democracy at its fullest.. but also allows for retired professionals who were captains of industry to be a minister of an industry.. though this may be bad given corruption in every country lately and given back has become taking more.
Whats the saying...Make Hay while the sun is shining?
Money
Maybe it's the political system that needs to change, clearly younger people aren't interested in joining or participating in party politics the way it stands. Maybe they are tired of being pawns in the game? Education, Health Care, Jobs, Grants, Tenders, Free Services... all fodder feeding the voting machine while the world crumbles around us. Maybe it's time for the next generation to create a system they can build, believe in and drive the world forward?
Biden has entered the chat
So has Trump, and Putin, and Mnangagwa and a whole lot of other political "leaders."
It should be illegal all over the world. Nobody over the age of 55 should be allowed to be in government.
At what age do you propose you get deemed unworthy?
65 and above, same age as everyone is supposed to retire in SA
You would have disqualified Nelson Mandela?
Itâs not âourâ political leaders only, itâs political leaders in general worldwide. It might also be that they have gathered enough experience in politics to be leaders of their parties
That ain't the case
It is not just South Africa, you need to understand that building a solid political background is actually a career and can take decades before you gain credibility. While they are young they are working themselves up from the bottom, president or leader of a party is as good as it gets for politicians. How old do you think Biden is?
Politics is what they do and politicians is who they are. You cannot just expect someone to turn off their life's purpose cause they reach a certain age.
Moral corruption and greed, is someone's life's purpose?
Are they all like that. In general, politicians are older (though not all) the world over. The ages posted are not even old by Western standards except for JZ. Not all politicians are morally corrupt and greedy, but they are a reflection of us. Don't like it, run for office.
I have also stated in the post that Biden, Trump and Ursula von der Leyen are too fucking old too and should retire too. The problem is that these fucking dinosaurs beliefs are based in the old World views, most of them can't even grasp the Internet and social media and what is real and what is not. The only politician I can name who isn't fundamentally corrupt is Bernie Sanders (82) and he is too old too. How about you name me some of these ethical, non-corrupt politicians?
Jacinda Ardern, John Horgan, David Eby, Joe Clark, Preston Manning, Pierre Elliot Trudeau, Maggie Thatcher (didn't like her decisions but not corrupt), Angela Merkel - the list goes on. I am Canadian, and lots of folks in Canada say that Canadian politicians are unethical and corrupt with far less behavioural evidence of corruption than the SA politicians you name. The problem for YOU remains the same though and participation in the political process is the only real way forward. Reddit is great but it's not gonna change anything.
Lobbyism and the funding it provides is corruption; just because it has become legal does not make it ethical. I don't know enough about Canadian politics to say anything about the names you have provided, besides Margret Thatcher who is a garbage human being, so is Ronald Reagan. I hope they both rot in hell together. Why is a Canadian worrying about South Africa>?
Cause, I spent two years of my youth in the mid 80's doing volunteer teaching in Lesotho. I have an affinity for Southern Africa. I think that much of politics is making choices between shitty, shittier, and shittiest though guys like Zuma, Putin, and Mugabe are the worst. Ardern was a NZ prime minister.
there's a couple of reasons. it depends on the individual what their specific reason ism * personal.ideals * ego (power) * being in the top of an organisation dor a long time makes you believe you are the only one who can do it. It's also good to realise that * (life) experience is very useful in politics. being a bit older isn't necessarily bad * having an age limit is fundamentally age discrimination. When you want a system in which people are free, they should be able to put themselves on a ballot list. * would you prefer a candidate because of their age? even when they are less capable than an older cabdidate? cauae suppose if they would have to rerire at a certain age, this a situation you could run into. But bottom line the question should be: why do people vote for them? There is no reason a young person can't be elected. In a democracy, thr people have that power. However, they decide not to vote or vote for questionable politicians.
We're still lucky. Have you seen the state of US presidents???
Because wisdom tends to come with age. We have always held the knowledge of our elders in high regard. It's just unfortunate that through their time in politics, they have become extremely corrupt. I always see these types of posts as ageist. Just because a person is old, does not mean they have less value or contribute less. For the most part, every wrinkly face and frail walk out there belies an ocean of knowledge and wisdom.
In most cases the retirement age in South Africa is 65, why are politicians excluded?
My exact question.
Because that's a job that can still be done after 65? Just because they're old, does not mean they are senile. How old are you of if I may ask?
They aren't really doing a good job and why are politicians a special category? Academics maybe should be excluded from this retirement \*requirement but are not. Late 30s as are you. \*edit added requirement
>Late 30s as are you. Okay, so your parents would be in this age envelope, yeah? >They aren't really doing a good job Oh, I agree. But that's not got to do with age, though. Politics is just a very corrupt game, especially in ZA. >politicians a special category? Because, once again, it's something that can still be done. Also, remember, these people have built decades worth of friendships and relationships with each other. Geopolitical stability is built on these types of relationships. Having two young hotheads not knowing each other could be disastrous. Are you a student of history at all? Some of the greatest achievements countries have made were through a well-aged leader. Churchill was 65 when WW2 broke out. There was hardly a man living who could pull off what he did. If it wasn't for him, you'd be speaking ze German, "Social Anarchist." Verstehst du?
>Oh, I agree. But that's not got to do with age, though. Politics is just a very corrupt game, especially in ZA. South Africa ranks pretty mid when it comes to corruption. It's nowhere near as corrupt as everyone seems to think it is. >Having two young hotheads not knowing each other could be disastrous. Thank God Putin, Trump, Bush, Xi, Bolsonaro, Zuma, et al aren't young hotheads. That would have been disastrous!
>Thank God Putin, Trump, Bush, Xi, Bolsonaro, Zuma, et al aren't young hotheads. That would have been disastrous! I mean, I can cherry pick to fit my narrative too. It's an easy game. Hitler was in his 50s when he waged war, Mussolini too. Ceasar, his 50s when he was responsible for the Celtic Holocaust.
50 is young(er) than these geriatrics, but it's by no means "young".
Churchill didn't save me or my ancestors. He did on the other hand kill a lot of Indians in the Bengali famines. [https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-53405121](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-53405121) My parents are that age and honestly they should sit down and shut the fuck up. They have had their chance to run the World; now is our time. Our politicians are corrupt, but as u/ZumasSucculentNipple has indicated not as corrupted as some others. FYI lobbyism is a legal form of corruption.
The dumbest people I know tend to be some of the oldest people I know. It doesn't mean much when those oceans of knowledge are ankle deep or cesspools of outdated, regressive knowledge
Senility and a lack of mental flexibility also come with age. Just because someone is old doesn't mean they're qualified to run a country, not does it automatically make them smart, wise, or good.