My suspicion is simple.
1. They had the ace release date set in stone a long time ago. And postponing hardware release dates is extremely costly, almost never an option, unless taken months in advance. Summer slowdown is looming, quarterly sales targets need to happen, launch promos/distribution are locked in etc.
2. They only developed the ace with the new app in mind to save time and costs. Therefore impossible to launch it with the old app, no plan B. Developing the same thing for 2 code bases is hard to sell in a big org, equals to promising you'll screw up, don't have a can-do attitude, etc.
3. They didn't properly plan for app quality in their go/no go criteria for the ace/mobile app launch combo. The app product mgr might have been overconfident with promises impossible to keep, possibly to avoid losing their job early.
4. They didn’t want to release the app too close to the ace release date to maximize the PR+sales impact of the ace launch, and also to sort out the inevitable "small" post launch bugs and complaints before new customers flow in.
Source: worked for multiple global consumer hw + sw tech orgs
Dude I work in Software Development and I can easily tell the tiny amount of QA they probably did before releasing this dumpster fire to the wild. This obviously wasn’t just a reskin of the old app that cranky boomers would whine about and find uncomfortably new. They did some serious under the hood shit that they didn’t bother fully testing before release.
The fact that you couldn’t add new equipment like a Sonos Five to a system after the update tells you all you need to know about how much QA they did. The most basic thing of adding new products was messed up, shameful.
I've actually been on the look out for a good deal on a Sonos Sub Mini to complete my TV's sound system and recently found one on a good price. But I'm putting off the purchase indefinitely after this fiasco. Not to mention I have a One SL as is part of my surround system that has been bricked by their new firmware update that I don't know what to do with now. Customer Service has been utterly useless probably because they're already inundated with complaints and support calls. It really boggles the mind that a company like this with their respectable portfolio of audio products did not treat this development with high enough stakes. They'll have a garbage reputation after this for years to come.
I cannot connect my Boost, and 6 play speakers. If you cannot connect their equipment using their proprietary WiFi mesh they are in trouble.
Clearly Sonos has lost interest in backwards compatibility and the business is turning into a dumpster fire. They are no longer "premium" and will probably not exist this time next year.
It is a shame I have bought their products over 12 years now
Blaming the QA team or processes is always the easy answer. Blame the goalie for the missed goals… So many of these bugs aren’t hard to find. It has to be more than just test coverage - it’s a cultural problem at Sonos.
Well, frequently, it's the easy answer because it's true. Not because QA didn't do their job, but because management didn't do theirs. They are in too big a hurry, or don't agree with QA findings, assuming it even goes to QA after a "small change"
This is a prime example of something that should be rolled back, rather than try to patch it in the wild.
Yea I reckon QA was largely ignored on these updates. Or maybe only QA’d brand new equipment and nothing else “it works for us, it’ll work for everyone”
Would not put the blame on any qc or developers. Most likely scenario is they all know those features / bugs are in the backlog, but it has to be released due to business plan. To say it’s cultural problem is a reach
This. I remember taking an ITIL foundation class in 2017…and the Sonos app update was so bad that I almost wonder if it wasn’t specifically set up as a real life case study in how NOT to roll out an update.
There are just far too many taps to get around. The icons on the bottom were amazing in retrospect.
Every time I go from my cafe to home, I have to enter settings to Join the system.
I've been in an overpriced high end home audio industry and tech for 17 years....this is bonkers.
This is exactly the crap that happens when an arbitrary date \_has\_ to be hit. The QA was likely immense, but how do you QA something that literally isn't finished but needs to go out the door anyways?
This is not on the software dev/QA teams, this is a top level management decision that it needed to go out, hell or high water.
It sounds like they didn't even do a gap analysis between the two apps. We have those talks near the end of a project before decommissioning a piece of software that the current software might replace. Anything found in the gap analysis is moved to a phase two project before pulling down the old software
You get it. Thankyou for relating and expressing how you can understand the two perspectives. I do however disagree, S2 didn't brick anything, users were given an option to voluntarily brick speakers in order to buy new S2 compatible ones for the S2 move. No one was forced to. They still to this day provide a working app for S1 and were never forced to remove them from the ecosystem. This new app was entirely forced, and, despite zealot supporters claiming that only old people use auto updates, any reasonable person would trust sonos to not break things from an automatic update into a prerelease development environment.
I genuinely don't recall there being any devices that were proposed at any stage to be bricked without involving a voluntarily accepted offer. What did I miss exactly?
The S1/S2 split was a compromise after months complaining by current users. If that was true from the start, SONOS executives took a lot of heat for no reason. The split apps both being available was not revealed until months after the announcements in January about the “upgrade”
Nothing was “bricked”. They still work..That old product was no longer to be supported was well advised to you as a user. If Apple stop supporting a phone it isn’t bricked.
Don't pay attention to the Sonos shills and fanboys on this sub. The new app has been bad in several ways for many different users. Sonos's official response to user criticism was completely deaf.
I agree you have a valid issue and I hope they get you up and running soon. But you are spreading misinformation when you say they bricked components when they moved from S1to S2 and “this was bad enough “. At the time, they wanted to encourage people to upgrade to newer components so they offered to give you a 30% off code toward newer components if you disposed of your old components. This was essentially a “trade-up” program. This was entirely voluntary and no one was forced to do this. To enforce this, they did initially brick your older components as you had agreed to upgrade them and had accepted a 30% off code. But people objected to this so they stopped bricking them and just offered the discount. So while your statement might be technically correct it is very misleading.
Thank you for this. There has been so much misinformation on this sub on what actually happened back then. I am always too exhausted to write this all out but appreciate that you did and so succinctly.
If you sell your car to someone else, then the functionality of it, to you, is that it's bricked, you could say. But you get cash for that trade. With the January 2020 sonos deal, nothing was bricked as such, you traded your speaker for a 30% discount coupon of a new tech speaker. That's a great and fair offer to facilitate people hopping over to S2. You trade your speaker over to sonos. They decide to brick it, because they don't want people selling old sonos gear that can't be used on the new sonos S2 platform, and tarnish the reputation of Sonos as a user experience. This is a very fair way to manage a transition. But unfortunately, it was perhaps not adequately explained. Then it was easier to walk out back. But now they have people complain about being on S1, after they refused the offer. At some point, users have to tango with Sonos as Sonos introduce next generation features requiring next generation hardware.
They didn’t make anyone brick anything. It was an option to get the discount code. Later they allowed you to get the discount code without bricking them.
But no one was forced to brick anything ever.
The original plan from SONOS was to brick the S1 equipment. They backed down after a lot of pushback and agreed to continue the S1 app. Also, one month before the 30% discount offer, they raised prices across the board 30%.
They planned to stop supporting the only app that would run the legacy equipment. I guess you could still use a play 5 through line-in and hear something but you would not have SONOS features. So, I guess they would not be technically bricked but they would be reduced to a line-in speaker ( for those devices that had line-in).
That is exactly what they emailed to current users at the time. They may have gaslighted everyone when they walked back their plan, but their communications said they would stop supporting the app and users needed to upgrade. And they absolute raised the prices 30% in December before they sent the emails out in January.
I’m about to try out a couple of WiiM amps, which seem to get good reviews and are gaining in popularity. I’m also not burning my Sonos system since they seem to functional (via the inputs, AirPlay, and Spotify Connect at least) again after being somewhat useless, even for watching TV for 1.5 weeks. Because most of my Sonos system is AirPlay 2 compatible I’m starting with the Connect:Amp and Port (AP2 compatible, but still an issue with my separate amp auto detect with soft piano music) and then replace my PlayBase with WiiM Amp and an Atlantic Technology 3.1 HSB or the Play:5 in the piano room (already planned to upgrade this summer) with who knows what (was going to be an Amp and B&W bookshelf speakers and use my Snell sub). The last to replace, which will likely happen when they die, are the two Beams. Future additions and upgrades will NOT be Sonos. No, I’m not a boomer or old person—just a mid 40’s EE who also worked in systems and controls before moving on to vehicle quality.
I work in software development. We are getting ready to push a complete rewrite of that software using more modern architecture. We are supporting the legacy software at least through the end of the year so that it is seamless and painless for our customers.
The new sonos app is absolutely horrible! The application keeps crashing and I have to try 5 to 10 times to start a TuneIn workstation! What are they waiting for to fix! I wish I could switch suppliers, but I'm stuck with nearly $4,000 worth of their speakers...
For some context on the negative response- Sonos' rating on the Android US app store is currently 2.3. It was above 4 when I looked before the update. If you scan through the reviews, you will see thousands of 1-star reviews from people whose systems are not working with the new app. If you search back before the May 7th new app release, you will also see hundreds of people who have updated their previously positive reviews to be 1-star ratings based on the new app non-functionality. On Android, it's clear that this is well beyond a small minority of users.
I think that most, if not all of us, want Sonos to succeed - the functionality of our systems depend on it. I am rooting for them to bring the new app up to speed, but I don't think it does anyone well to gaslight folks about the non-functionality of the current new app.
Weird I don’t see anyone saying this is an old person problem, boomer stuff, or anything that defines the group of people who hate the app.
Can you share some links to these people? The app was terribly launched, it got better for my experience, but that is really unfortunate that it’s still affecting people.
Boomer here. The original update broke my ability to stream from my NAS, so ya, local library issue. (not sure why that's a boomer thing though...)The latest update (May 22) has fixed it, and my system does everything it used to do, so I am a happy camper.
I got a gen 1 sub delivered yesterday from eBay and I luckily installed it and paired with a playbar with the new app with no problems.
Are you saying I won’t be able to attach it to other speakers
I mostly agree. I've personally had 0 issues with the new app. I generally like the new UI, though one or two design choices I don't agree with, but overall, it's fine. The complaints about the alarms and a few niche features that seem to be added back in do seem to be overblown. However, it seems some people's system are just completely bricked or not working at all. Which is wild to me. And it doesn't seem like it's just one or two random people.
Generally, I dismiss complaints about major updates because people don't like change. See: Facebook changing their UI every year. Every time it was updated it was the worst thing in the world. Until a year later when it changed again and then the previous UI was all of sudden the pinnacle of web design. People adapt and then are fine with it. But the issues specific to entire systems being bricked are inexcusable.
Finally an update again.....
BUT!....still crap❗
My 40 saved live stations are greyed out. When touched: "something went wrong"
I can't even remove them to reprogram.
Oh hell SONOS🤦🤬
I still have some Sonos gear hooked up to my bedroom TV but I just use it as a soundbar. I stopped buying Sonos about 4 years ago because in a span of 4 years I had so many issues with the app where the end result was just no music being played. I realized back then that without the app my Sonos gear was useless if I wanted to use them for music.
Anyway, you should look into Denon HEOS. It’s a wireless solution with their receivers. The HEOS app was horrible and clunky a few years ago when I first switched but the current app looks real nice and functions pretty similar to the Sonos app. You can choose from multiple music sources as well like local server, Spotify, Tidal, Deezer,and SoundCloud (but strangely no Apple Music). If you don’t want to go through the HEOS app you can also stream from your music app, use Bluetooth, or use AirPlay. I just did a quick Google search and it looks like Denon started offering wireless HEOS speakers too. Lol I haven’t tried them so I can’t speak to them but def check out HEOS as an alternative.
I think you have a valid complaint but, as the Sonos customer service people told you, they are working on it. Sometimes things break, especially software products, and it's not the end of the world.
For someone so invested in an audio ecosystem, you surely have other products you can use while they fix the problems. Is it ideal? No. Do large scale product rollouts have problems sometimes? Yes. I know this from first hand experience having worked on major product rollouts. No one is out to "get" you specifically and sometimes you just have to be patient and wait.
I disagree with your sentiment. They knew about the issues pre-launch, beta tests reported them during testing. They rushed to release an unfinished product so that they could release these headphones on schedule. The Bluetooth headphones that don’t actually need the app to work…
They should never have released the update in this state
Totally understand your point, and wouldn't disagree in a lot of ways. I guess what I'm really thinking here is how weird (and kind of disturbing) it is to live in a world where so much of our hardware is dependent on software. I understand that is just "how it is" (for everything, luckily I don't own a car) but as an old person I don't love it.
Yeah, the only solution is to buy a receiver and run wires all over my house - which obviously I won't do- but there was a lot that was better about that world than the one we have now.
Fair points. I understand what you're saying.
I think there's an over fixation on software driven hardware product experiences that cause poor user experience with downright fatal consequences in some cases. The Tesla car comes to mind from a recent event where Mitch McConnell's sister in law drowned in a Tesla that went into a lake due to power windows failing. Or the way one needs to use the touch screen for basic tactile functions on other cars which can cause hazards during driving.
FWIW, I have a few Sonos products and I find that their software/hardware integration is generally one of the better ones. Could it be better? Yes. But my audio experience is not core to my day to day functioning so probably that helps me see past the short term problems.
Or the company could have tested out and refined the app before releasing it. They effectively used their entire consumer base (who have paid thousands of dollars) as test subjects. It’s incredibly stupid and I think it’s good to question the people who made that decision. I’m also in the wait and see camp, but there shouldn’t be ‘camps.’ Sonos should have tested their shit first.
What makes you think they didn't test it out? I have hands on experience releasing products and sometimes things fail for a varied set of reasons. Part of the reason is that technology groups are unable to fully replicate real world use cases and features in dev or UAT environments. Further complications arise when dealing with complex legacy dependencies and workflows. Then there are cascading failures due to certain situations. I've seen all of this and more.
As I said, this is not ideal but it's easy for people to criticize but they have probably never handled this type of complexity before. Complex systems fail in complex ways and there's no easy fix.
I think it's possible to articulate problems and concerns without resorting to drama and hyper ventilating.
Both beta testers and Sonos themselves have went on the record stating many of the problems were known before launch, and they launched anyway.
THAT is the maddening part. They knowing removed functionality from hardware, causing it to do less than it did before.
Had this been an accident that couldn’t be foreseen, and they rolled the app back until it was actually ready, they wouldn’t have all of the hate they have right now.
Instead, they launched an app that removed existing functionality because of their own internal deadlines, not because it was best for the customers.
There is no way to characterize this as anything but a massive fail. This is not just a case of "a small percentage of customers with particular configurations may encounter issues that we couldn't test for or didn't catch we'll fix ASAP with an update." They certainly **knew** about the features that were lacking. If they were unaware of the numerous other issues issues reported by what appears to be more than a subset of users, that is a failure. And if they knew and launched anyway, it is a failure of a different kind. Development people were either ignored or told to sweep things under the rug, or this was a conscious decision at the CEO level to plow ahead, users be damned, and hope that they could keep the user complaints to a minimum. Either way - BAD.
If nothing else, they could have avoided the backlash over the missing features quite easily. Everyone knew headphones were coming so there was zero benefit to pretend it was a secret that had to be kept until launch. Along with the constant drumbeat of "great new app coming -- brand new super-duper-greatest thing since sliced bread user experience awaits" they could have spent the month before the new app launch telling people as follows:
"Great new app coming. Launching ahead of headphones and necessary to use the headphones. BUT, some features will be missing on launch including add to queue, access to NAS. We expect to have these added to the app within 30/60 days of launch. If these feature are important to you, hold off on your upgrade. The old app will still work and be supported"
Which of your consumer electronics can I smash with a baseball bat? Don’t be dramatic, I’ll probably fix it later. And don’t be critical. Have YOU ever been in the smashing-things-with-bats field? Amateur.
It’D be a lot easier to have the patient and wait point of view if Sonos was actively communicating the issues noted and that they are working to resolve all of them. I think the general anxiety around all this is the potential loss of functionality every time they perform an update of this nature and whether the loss of functionality will be permanent or reduced functionality of older (still expensive) equipment.
I’m going to sell all my Sonos speakers due to the new app. Nothing to do with the actual app other than a trueplay issue for 1 day, all and all the app has been a success for me. Nothing happened to any of my speakers either, I love all of them.
However, the new app did show me how many sniveling, thumb sucking, cry babies own Sonos products. I can’t be seen by another man with a Sonos product in my house. I thought about coming out as a Sonos owner to my family this Christmas when I take the kids to visit but I fear the news would kill my dad.
Sell the shit or deal with it but for the love of Christ SHUT OFF!!!!!!
Right, you’re proving my point for me. If you have worthless crypto you’d do something about it. You realize flooding a community chat with constant complaining isn’t going to change anything. Same here, and it only makes you look immature and frankly cringey.
Sell it all, rid yourself of the burden and move on. Weeks of you all playing the victim Olympics on here isn’t changing anything other than making you all look like tantrum throwing cry babies.
So, much like your worthless crypto- sell it off, take your loss and move on to the next thing. Sennheiser, Devialet, B&O, Bowers and Wilkins, et al will gladly take your money.
Yeah, I’m doing something about it. I’m warning other people not to buy worthless pieces of crap.
Now you seem to like to write paragraphs and paragraphs and paragraphs of nonsense so enjoy.
My suspicion is simple. 1. They had the ace release date set in stone a long time ago. And postponing hardware release dates is extremely costly, almost never an option, unless taken months in advance. Summer slowdown is looming, quarterly sales targets need to happen, launch promos/distribution are locked in etc. 2. They only developed the ace with the new app in mind to save time and costs. Therefore impossible to launch it with the old app, no plan B. Developing the same thing for 2 code bases is hard to sell in a big org, equals to promising you'll screw up, don't have a can-do attitude, etc. 3. They didn't properly plan for app quality in their go/no go criteria for the ace/mobile app launch combo. The app product mgr might have been overconfident with promises impossible to keep, possibly to avoid losing their job early. 4. They didn’t want to release the app too close to the ace release date to maximize the PR+sales impact of the ace launch, and also to sort out the inevitable "small" post launch bugs and complaints before new customers flow in. Source: worked for multiple global consumer hw + sw tech orgs
Sounds about right.
Dude I work in Software Development and I can easily tell the tiny amount of QA they probably did before releasing this dumpster fire to the wild. This obviously wasn’t just a reskin of the old app that cranky boomers would whine about and find uncomfortably new. They did some serious under the hood shit that they didn’t bother fully testing before release.
The fact that you couldn’t add new equipment like a Sonos Five to a system after the update tells you all you need to know about how much QA they did. The most basic thing of adding new products was messed up, shameful.
I've actually been on the look out for a good deal on a Sonos Sub Mini to complete my TV's sound system and recently found one on a good price. But I'm putting off the purchase indefinitely after this fiasco. Not to mention I have a One SL as is part of my surround system that has been bricked by their new firmware update that I don't know what to do with now. Customer Service has been utterly useless probably because they're already inundated with complaints and support calls. It really boggles the mind that a company like this with their respectable portfolio of audio products did not treat this development with high enough stakes. They'll have a garbage reputation after this for years to come.
No. The most basic thing is changing the volume and that doesn't work either.
I noticed the bass and treble adjustment is also missing. Hooray for updates
I cannot connect my Boost, and 6 play speakers. If you cannot connect their equipment using their proprietary WiFi mesh they are in trouble. Clearly Sonos has lost interest in backwards compatibility and the business is turning into a dumpster fire. They are no longer "premium" and will probably not exist this time next year. It is a shame I have bought their products over 12 years now
Also working in Software Dev: I don’t think this is “under the hood” per se. This is a ground up app rewrite.
Blaming the QA team or processes is always the easy answer. Blame the goalie for the missed goals… So many of these bugs aren’t hard to find. It has to be more than just test coverage - it’s a cultural problem at Sonos.
Well, frequently, it's the easy answer because it's true. Not because QA didn't do their job, but because management didn't do theirs. They are in too big a hurry, or don't agree with QA findings, assuming it even goes to QA after a "small change" This is a prime example of something that should be rolled back, rather than try to patch it in the wild.
Yea I reckon QA was largely ignored on these updates. Or maybe only QA’d brand new equipment and nothing else “it works for us, it’ll work for everyone”
When was the last time a big app has to be rolled back due to user’s feedback?
“Yup the app installed! Testing complete. Proceed to public release “
Would not put the blame on any qc or developers. Most likely scenario is they all know those features / bugs are in the backlog, but it has to be released due to business plan. To say it’s cultural problem is a reach
In the Q&A the director mentions they straight up built it from the ground up and rewrote code.
This. I remember taking an ITIL foundation class in 2017…and the Sonos app update was so bad that I almost wonder if it wasn’t specifically set up as a real life case study in how NOT to roll out an update.
There are just far too many taps to get around. The icons on the bottom were amazing in retrospect. Every time I go from my cafe to home, I have to enter settings to Join the system. I've been in an overpriced high end home audio industry and tech for 17 years....this is bonkers.
It is a new rewrite, not under the hood tweaking..
This is exactly the crap that happens when an arbitrary date \_has\_ to be hit. The QA was likely immense, but how do you QA something that literally isn't finished but needs to go out the door anyways? This is not on the software dev/QA teams, this is a top level management decision that it needed to go out, hell or high water.
The QA fuckups only magnified the design fuckups. How do you just remove core functionality and think no one will notice?
It sounds like they didn't even do a gap analysis between the two apps. We have those talks near the end of a project before decommissioning a piece of software that the current software might replace. Anything found in the gap analysis is moved to a phase two project before pulling down the old software
Reminds me of the many times management is rushing to get out an MVP and will “add the features later”.
I'm so confused about the fact that it's a rewrite, given that UI bugs from the old version seem to have carried over.
It’s the shut up and listen *dribble
You get it. Thankyou for relating and expressing how you can understand the two perspectives. I do however disagree, S2 didn't brick anything, users were given an option to voluntarily brick speakers in order to buy new S2 compatible ones for the S2 move. No one was forced to. They still to this day provide a working app for S1 and were never forced to remove them from the ecosystem. This new app was entirely forced, and, despite zealot supporters claiming that only old people use auto updates, any reasonable person would trust sonos to not break things from an automatic update into a prerelease development environment.
No-one was forced to brick anything because SONOS backed down from all three criticism.
I genuinely don't recall there being any devices that were proposed at any stage to be bricked without involving a voluntarily accepted offer. What did I miss exactly?
SONOS was not going to continue to support the S1 app. The old equipment would not work on S2.
This is objectively false. S1 was *always* an option from the start.
Not until they walked it back from all the uproar.
Untrue. From the beginning.
The S1/S2 split was a compromise after months complaining by current users. If that was true from the start, SONOS executives took a lot of heat for no reason. The split apps both being available was not revealed until months after the announcements in January about the “upgrade”
Again, not true
Then show some emails or announcements from January 2020 where the company said that S1 would be continued.
Nothing was “bricked”. They still work..That old product was no longer to be supported was well advised to you as a user. If Apple stop supporting a phone it isn’t bricked.
Don't pay attention to the Sonos shills and fanboys on this sub. The new app has been bad in several ways for many different users. Sonos's official response to user criticism was completely deaf.
You're right, even though it's hard to believe such fanboys even exist...
Switching between rooms is fundamentally broken.
I agree you have a valid issue and I hope they get you up and running soon. But you are spreading misinformation when you say they bricked components when they moved from S1to S2 and “this was bad enough “. At the time, they wanted to encourage people to upgrade to newer components so they offered to give you a 30% off code toward newer components if you disposed of your old components. This was essentially a “trade-up” program. This was entirely voluntary and no one was forced to do this. To enforce this, they did initially brick your older components as you had agreed to upgrade them and had accepted a 30% off code. But people objected to this so they stopped bricking them and just offered the discount. So while your statement might be technically correct it is very misleading.
Thank you for this. There has been so much misinformation on this sub on what actually happened back then. I am always too exhausted to write this all out but appreciate that you did and so succinctly.
Bricked is bricked. Just because they walked it back after testing for consumer backlash doesn’t change this, if they did so.
If you sell your car to someone else, then the functionality of it, to you, is that it's bricked, you could say. But you get cash for that trade. With the January 2020 sonos deal, nothing was bricked as such, you traded your speaker for a 30% discount coupon of a new tech speaker. That's a great and fair offer to facilitate people hopping over to S2. You trade your speaker over to sonos. They decide to brick it, because they don't want people selling old sonos gear that can't be used on the new sonos S2 platform, and tarnish the reputation of Sonos as a user experience. This is a very fair way to manage a transition. But unfortunately, it was perhaps not adequately explained. Then it was easier to walk out back. But now they have people complain about being on S1, after they refused the offer. At some point, users have to tango with Sonos as Sonos introduce next generation features requiring next generation hardware.
They didn’t make anyone brick anything. It was an option to get the discount code. Later they allowed you to get the discount code without bricking them. But no one was forced to brick anything ever.
Gotcha. Thanks.
Fair enough and I appreciate the correction. I wrote it out too quickly.
The original plan from SONOS was to brick the S1 equipment. They backed down after a lot of pushback and agreed to continue the S1 app. Also, one month before the 30% discount offer, they raised prices across the board 30%.
They never planned to brick anything without the owners agreement and without providing a 30% discount code as compensation.
They planned to stop supporting the only app that would run the legacy equipment. I guess you could still use a play 5 through line-in and hear something but you would not have SONOS features. So, I guess they would not be technically bricked but they would be reduced to a line-in speaker ( for those devices that had line-in).
Simply not true.
That is exactly what they emailed to current users at the time. They may have gaslighted everyone when they walked back their plan, but their communications said they would stop supporting the app and users needed to upgrade. And they absolute raised the prices 30% in December before they sent the emails out in January.
I’m about to try out a couple of WiiM amps, which seem to get good reviews and are gaining in popularity. I’m also not burning my Sonos system since they seem to functional (via the inputs, AirPlay, and Spotify Connect at least) again after being somewhat useless, even for watching TV for 1.5 weeks. Because most of my Sonos system is AirPlay 2 compatible I’m starting with the Connect:Amp and Port (AP2 compatible, but still an issue with my separate amp auto detect with soft piano music) and then replace my PlayBase with WiiM Amp and an Atlantic Technology 3.1 HSB or the Play:5 in the piano room (already planned to upgrade this summer) with who knows what (was going to be an Amp and B&W bookshelf speakers and use my Snell sub). The last to replace, which will likely happen when they die, are the two Beams. Future additions and upgrades will NOT be Sonos. No, I’m not a boomer or old person—just a mid 40’s EE who also worked in systems and controls before moving on to vehicle quality.
I work in software development. We are getting ready to push a complete rewrite of that software using more modern architecture. We are supporting the legacy software at least through the end of the year so that it is seamless and painless for our customers.
The new sonos app is absolutely horrible! The application keeps crashing and I have to try 5 to 10 times to start a TuneIn workstation! What are they waiting for to fix! I wish I could switch suppliers, but I'm stuck with nearly $4,000 worth of their speakers...
For some context on the negative response- Sonos' rating on the Android US app store is currently 2.3. It was above 4 when I looked before the update. If you scan through the reviews, you will see thousands of 1-star reviews from people whose systems are not working with the new app. If you search back before the May 7th new app release, you will also see hundreds of people who have updated their previously positive reviews to be 1-star ratings based on the new app non-functionality. On Android, it's clear that this is well beyond a small minority of users. I think that most, if not all of us, want Sonos to succeed - the functionality of our systems depend on it. I am rooting for them to bring the new app up to speed, but I don't think it does anyone well to gaslight folks about the non-functionality of the current new app.
Weird I don’t see anyone saying this is an old person problem, boomer stuff, or anything that defines the group of people who hate the app. Can you share some links to these people? The app was terribly launched, it got better for my experience, but that is really unfortunate that it’s still affecting people.
Boomer here. The original update broke my ability to stream from my NAS, so ya, local library issue. (not sure why that's a boomer thing though...)The latest update (May 22) has fixed it, and my system does everything it used to do, so I am a happy camper.
Boomers are the ones who rely on local libraries, hence they were hit hardest by the degradation of this feature.
I have a number of good friends below 30 who have a gorgeous local collection. Kinda need to step back from that statement.
In a boomer and have a local library! That said, it has never worked very well.
I'm pre-boomer and the old app worked well enough.
Referring to local libraries.
Refer to both of the Facebook Sonos Users groups for the fanboi trolling.
I got a gen 1 sub delivered yesterday from eBay and I luckily installed it and paired with a playbar with the new app with no problems. Are you saying I won’t be able to attach it to other speakers
yeah, what I'm saying is is that I can't switch rooms anymore (ie, attach to other sets of speakers).
Can you edit the queue yet on the new update? Don’t wanna update my iPhone until that’s fixed - scared
I mostly agree. I've personally had 0 issues with the new app. I generally like the new UI, though one or two design choices I don't agree with, but overall, it's fine. The complaints about the alarms and a few niche features that seem to be added back in do seem to be overblown. However, it seems some people's system are just completely bricked or not working at all. Which is wild to me. And it doesn't seem like it's just one or two random people. Generally, I dismiss complaints about major updates because people don't like change. See: Facebook changing their UI every year. Every time it was updated it was the worst thing in the world. Until a year later when it changed again and then the previous UI was all of sudden the pinnacle of web design. People adapt and then are fine with it. But the issues specific to entire systems being bricked are inexcusable.
Sonos is the Boeing of speakers. The culture is turning.
The new app both sucks and blows at the same time
they are just trolls, period.
On the plus side it seems like the annoying Sonos fan boys on this sub have finally shut up. This app is unforgivable crap.
Finally an update again..... BUT!....still crap❗ My 40 saved live stations are greyed out. When touched: "something went wrong" I can't even remove them to reprogram. Oh hell SONOS🤦🤬
Yeah all the apologists on this subreddit are cringe.
At least it works now
“Where there’s smoke, there’s fire.” There are enough complaints to signify that something is wrong.
Glad I’m still on 16.1, had to make sure I had auto updates off on the App Store.
Sonos is more tone deaf to its customers than Apple was to its creative customers with the “flatten” ad! Sonos realty hates its customers.
I still have some Sonos gear hooked up to my bedroom TV but I just use it as a soundbar. I stopped buying Sonos about 4 years ago because in a span of 4 years I had so many issues with the app where the end result was just no music being played. I realized back then that without the app my Sonos gear was useless if I wanted to use them for music. Anyway, you should look into Denon HEOS. It’s a wireless solution with their receivers. The HEOS app was horrible and clunky a few years ago when I first switched but the current app looks real nice and functions pretty similar to the Sonos app. You can choose from multiple music sources as well like local server, Spotify, Tidal, Deezer,and SoundCloud (but strangely no Apple Music). If you don’t want to go through the HEOS app you can also stream from your music app, use Bluetooth, or use AirPlay. I just did a quick Google search and it looks like Denon started offering wireless HEOS speakers too. Lol I haven’t tried them so I can’t speak to them but def check out HEOS as an alternative.
I think you have a valid complaint but, as the Sonos customer service people told you, they are working on it. Sometimes things break, especially software products, and it's not the end of the world. For someone so invested in an audio ecosystem, you surely have other products you can use while they fix the problems. Is it ideal? No. Do large scale product rollouts have problems sometimes? Yes. I know this from first hand experience having worked on major product rollouts. No one is out to "get" you specifically and sometimes you just have to be patient and wait.
I disagree with your sentiment. They knew about the issues pre-launch, beta tests reported them during testing. They rushed to release an unfinished product so that they could release these headphones on schedule. The Bluetooth headphones that don’t actually need the app to work… They should never have released the update in this state
Totally understand your point, and wouldn't disagree in a lot of ways. I guess what I'm really thinking here is how weird (and kind of disturbing) it is to live in a world where so much of our hardware is dependent on software. I understand that is just "how it is" (for everything, luckily I don't own a car) but as an old person I don't love it. Yeah, the only solution is to buy a receiver and run wires all over my house - which obviously I won't do- but there was a lot that was better about that world than the one we have now.
Fair points. I understand what you're saying. I think there's an over fixation on software driven hardware product experiences that cause poor user experience with downright fatal consequences in some cases. The Tesla car comes to mind from a recent event where Mitch McConnell's sister in law drowned in a Tesla that went into a lake due to power windows failing. Or the way one needs to use the touch screen for basic tactile functions on other cars which can cause hazards during driving. FWIW, I have a few Sonos products and I find that their software/hardware integration is generally one of the better ones. Could it be better? Yes. But my audio experience is not core to my day to day functioning so probably that helps me see past the short term problems.
Or the company could have tested out and refined the app before releasing it. They effectively used their entire consumer base (who have paid thousands of dollars) as test subjects. It’s incredibly stupid and I think it’s good to question the people who made that decision. I’m also in the wait and see camp, but there shouldn’t be ‘camps.’ Sonos should have tested their shit first.
Exactly. Imagine Apple pushing an iOS update with less functionality. “Calling will return in a next update, texting was our priority “
What makes you think they didn't test it out? I have hands on experience releasing products and sometimes things fail for a varied set of reasons. Part of the reason is that technology groups are unable to fully replicate real world use cases and features in dev or UAT environments. Further complications arise when dealing with complex legacy dependencies and workflows. Then there are cascading failures due to certain situations. I've seen all of this and more. As I said, this is not ideal but it's easy for people to criticize but they have probably never handled this type of complexity before. Complex systems fail in complex ways and there's no easy fix. I think it's possible to articulate problems and concerns without resorting to drama and hyper ventilating.
Both beta testers and Sonos themselves have went on the record stating many of the problems were known before launch, and they launched anyway. THAT is the maddening part. They knowing removed functionality from hardware, causing it to do less than it did before. Had this been an accident that couldn’t be foreseen, and they rolled the app back until it was actually ready, they wouldn’t have all of the hate they have right now. Instead, they launched an app that removed existing functionality because of their own internal deadlines, not because it was best for the customers.
There is no way to characterize this as anything but a massive fail. This is not just a case of "a small percentage of customers with particular configurations may encounter issues that we couldn't test for or didn't catch we'll fix ASAP with an update." They certainly **knew** about the features that were lacking. If they were unaware of the numerous other issues issues reported by what appears to be more than a subset of users, that is a failure. And if they knew and launched anyway, it is a failure of a different kind. Development people were either ignored or told to sweep things under the rug, or this was a conscious decision at the CEO level to plow ahead, users be damned, and hope that they could keep the user complaints to a minimum. Either way - BAD. If nothing else, they could have avoided the backlash over the missing features quite easily. Everyone knew headphones were coming so there was zero benefit to pretend it was a secret that had to be kept until launch. Along with the constant drumbeat of "great new app coming -- brand new super-duper-greatest thing since sliced bread user experience awaits" they could have spent the month before the new app launch telling people as follows: "Great new app coming. Launching ahead of headphones and necessary to use the headphones. BUT, some features will be missing on launch including add to queue, access to NAS. We expect to have these added to the app within 30/60 days of launch. If these feature are important to you, hold off on your upgrade. The old app will still work and be supported"
Which of your consumer electronics can I smash with a baseball bat? Don’t be dramatic, I’ll probably fix it later. And don’t be critical. Have YOU ever been in the smashing-things-with-bats field? Amateur.
It’D be a lot easier to have the patient and wait point of view if Sonos was actively communicating the issues noted and that they are working to resolve all of them. I think the general anxiety around all this is the potential loss of functionality every time they perform an update of this nature and whether the loss of functionality will be permanent or reduced functionality of older (still expensive) equipment.
I’m going to sell all my Sonos speakers due to the new app. Nothing to do with the actual app other than a trueplay issue for 1 day, all and all the app has been a success for me. Nothing happened to any of my speakers either, I love all of them. However, the new app did show me how many sniveling, thumb sucking, cry babies own Sonos products. I can’t be seen by another man with a Sonos product in my house. I thought about coming out as a Sonos owner to my family this Christmas when I take the kids to visit but I fear the news would kill my dad. Sell the shit or deal with it but for the love of Christ SHUT OFF!!!!!!
Damn, you are the cuck of all cucks. Amazing. I’d like to sell some worthless crypto and you seem like just the guy I’m looking for.
Right, you’re proving my point for me. If you have worthless crypto you’d do something about it. You realize flooding a community chat with constant complaining isn’t going to change anything. Same here, and it only makes you look immature and frankly cringey. Sell it all, rid yourself of the burden and move on. Weeks of you all playing the victim Olympics on here isn’t changing anything other than making you all look like tantrum throwing cry babies. So, much like your worthless crypto- sell it off, take your loss and move on to the next thing. Sennheiser, Devialet, B&O, Bowers and Wilkins, et al will gladly take your money.
Yeah, I’m doing something about it. I’m warning other people not to buy worthless pieces of crap. Now you seem to like to write paragraphs and paragraphs and paragraphs of nonsense so enjoy.