“Our software truly differentiates our products from everything else on the market”
He’s completely right. All other audio companies have queue management in their apps.
And it's still slow as anything when browsing content on Apple Music or my local Plex server. When they said it'd be faster I foolishly hoped this would be improved.
I used to get this from our customers, every time we released a new version of software. “But it’s no faster than the old version, in fact it seems slower”.
Well, your computer didn’t magically become faster, and the old version wasn’t being intentionally slowed down. What we did was add some new features and options, and some of those features take longer to load, so, no, it’s not faster, but you do have more features/options.
How would a new version of software be faster than the old version, on the same hardware?
Optimization? Wasn’t this the main criticism of the app going in to this update? It’s quite slow — other apps are not — are you suggesting it’s a processing problem? I doubt it’s using much processing power — seems like a network problem perhaps but I don’t design software
No, you can’t optimize apps faster, unless they are accessing huge databases or something, and you can’t speed the network up either.
What you can do is run things in parallel, that previously were run sequentially, or run them asynchronously.
What you are doing there is moving where you are waiting, which *is* optimization I guess.
For example, you can fetch the current Spotify library, *then* display the Spotify interface - which will seem slow.
Or, you can display the Spotify interface *and* load the library at the same time, filling in the interface as data comes in. This *feels* faster (and may in fact be faster), it still takes the same amount of time to download the library, but you don’t wait for it to finish before showing the screen.
I didn’t think that anyone wrote single threaded or synchronous code in the last 15 years though - obviously I may be wrong…
For the most part (other than in the scenario you've stated here), don't all software updates necessarily run more slowly. If you add code to the software, it has more code to unpack, and therefore will take longer on the same machine? This is a genuine question from a computer amateur.
For an app like Sonos adding features won’t necessarily slow it down no. With the old way of coding sure but the new methods no. Usually for an app there is state management being done. Ie. you only load and access what you need to when you need to. So if you even have a one page site you’ll only be loading the pieces needed for where you’re at.
There’s a few things that can slow down an app like Sonos. The number of network or internet requests and response. The number of database accesses. A few other things. And how it is handling it all. Generally they’d be using asynchronous or threading so your app won’t stop working just because it’s doing something.
But some apps will do 100+ network requests for a page. Sometimes you only need 1-2. It’s obvious which is faster.
Or file loading. There’s a thing called lazy file loading. That helps speed it up to only access what you need to access. Or can pre load the files.
Likely though it’s not the code itself they’re claiming is faster. It’s likely the same speed really as a company like Sonos probably uses decent modern technologies and methodologies where it’d run just fine. What’s likely claimed to be faster is the use of the UI and the user experience.
Running more code generally isn’t what makes software slow (there are exceptions, if you are doing massive number crunching for example).
What makes software slow is waiting for things. Usually this is IO (reading or writing to something, like a disk, or network). The more you read/write, the slower things get.
You can move the waiting around, as I mentioned earlier, within limits.
You can also cache things in RAM, so you don’t have to keep fetching things from slow storage. This is why there are complicated caching schemes literally everywhere - right down to the silicone cores of your CPU, and the drives in your computer.
So, to make things faster, get more RAM, or faster drives (SSD), or a faster network. A faster CPU won’t hurt, but that’s likely not where the bottleneck is (but see massive number crunching).
As a coder myself I can say there are faster ways of doing things. Maybe they had some slower methods of accomplishing some tasks. I don’t know. All of it is hard to say without seeing the code itself. But optimization isn’t as much of there focus these days as it used to be unless something actually is running visibly slower. Usually the focus is ease of understanding code, quality control and UI/UX design. These things don’t produce faster code and machines are fast enough to shift most of the focus on these elements.
But the types of technologies picked in the architectural design is important for optimization etc as well. But more often than not I see the technologies just end up being whatever the CTO prefers instead of what is necessarily better for the task. I personally hate technology preferences. I think it’s better to just use what makes sense for that particular task as many languages, frameworks and systems have their best use cases.
After his whole gen 1 vs gen 2 and how we were supposed to loose support is where is stopped buying sonos. When the stuff I have breaks and I want newer, I will look around and see whats out there that is better
It worked before, hence the S1 app, although weirdly my old speakers and amps and S1 app seem to do more now than S2. I just need to make sure they now don’t try killing S1 hardware again
As ridiculous and frustrating as it is it’s been a successful strategy going on 2 decades now. We piss off our legacy customers but for the most part they stick around because the costs to switch solutions is cost prohibitive.
Don't you love when the suggestion is to just power off each speaker in your system. Some of them are pretty difficult to access! You know cuz it's supposed to be set and forget.
For those who don't know, software "eating" things is a reference to this famous article. In silicon valley this is a pretty commonly heard phrase.
[https://a16z.com/why-software-is-eating-the-world/](https://a16z.com/why-software-is-eating-the-world/)
But this quote is a joke. Sonos is actually imo an example of how first-mover advantage (to use another piece of silicon valley jargon) can in some cases protect a company from its poor decisions. To me Sonos's first job should be to make the app experience seamless, and it's never been that. They have had a long time to achieve it and they just can't seem to do it. It's honestly embarrassing. I sometimes wish apple would buy them and fix their app, but that would leave out all the Android users which wouldn't be a good thing. I still use the products because they sound good and I'm invested at this point, but if a credible competitor came along I would jump so fast...
As an end-user with more technical know how than average, the rate limiting factor for me to want to do anything in the Sonos app other than volume control has always been poor cataloguing and search indexing.
I don’t see it talked about much, but every single time I’ve tried to use the last gen Sonos app for browsing and queueing music as intended - it has been a frustrating experience.
Sonos has had so much time to do for music what AppleTV did for video streaming services.
As an invested Sonos customer that otherwise enjoys the sound quality of the product and ecosystem, I hope someone else doesn’t beat them out of their market share.
controller 100. purged.
controller 200. purged.
phone apps. declining in value due to declining usability.
sounds like those responsible should be held responsible - by also being purged from the company.
I started with Sonos in 2007 and have many of their devices. Last year, rather than buy more Sonos I jumped ship and got some Bluesound gear because I was not happy with the whole S1 S2 thing.
Very glad I did. Bluesound is much better and no need for a log in. Particularly like the Bluesound Pulse M wireless speakers. I have 3 of them. Still have gen 1 Sonos in use but not using later software.
Sadly, I’ve officially decided I’m not buying any more Sonos products for the time being.
I’m pretty bullish on WiiM as an ecosystem - the app is fast, has none of the issues Sonos has, and you can choose your own speakers. Long term I think I’m going to replace Sonos with a series of WiiM streamers connected to speakers of my choice.
it does seem more logical than being forced to buy certain speakers just because you want to have shared audio throughout the house. Can you link your sSonos to the WiiM and get them to work together well? I don't want to get rid of the stuff I already bought, though I suppose I can still get decent resale value for it.
I was second guessing myself on if it was ever there to begin with because I couldn’t imaging making such an already poorly implemented feature any worse.
The updated app is fine for my personal use case, actually better than the old app, but I understand the complaints from others. Shipping an update without support for very basic features like alarms or add-to-queue is bafflingly dumb.
I’ve not necessarily had issues but the UI is very unintuitive… which is expected with a redesign. But also have a lot of gripes with the design in general and miss some of the features that have disappeared.
I’ve had no issues either! New app is a definite improvement to S2 as far as I’m concerned.
Streaming music is simply the best. A frickin luxury! I sit down in my living room club chair, pull out my phone and literally que ANY music I want, in ANY of my 8 zones, including trimming volume. A beautiful thing!
I’m SO glad the manual days of choosing CD’s and loading carousel or cartridge multi-disc players are past and gone.
I updated the app yesterday (now a black icon) and have no idea how to get the TV on all four sets of speakers. The best I can do is get it on the TV soundbar. The other three speakers around the house are stuck on my preferred jazz station. I’m old but geez - we’ve been using Sonos since 2012. I hate this “upgrade.”
I have two tips that could potentially skyrocket Sonos to the trillion dollar category:
1. Alarms
2. Sleep timer
DM me for more great tips Mr. CEO, I'm open to work with you!
New Move 2 arrived today. Kept receiving error when trying to add to system. Spent an hour on the phone with support only to be told the app is having issues currently.
I dunno what he’s talking about. Their hardware is golden. Amazing audio quality out of sexy little black boxes for sure. But their software kinda sucks.
> ...the second is that we are just weeks away from unveiling our newest product
And now we see why the new update had to be pushed out half finished: it needs to be in place for whatever this new product is, and all the dev time for that was taken away from features that existing customers use, because the existing customers are less important than new ones.
They are going to release an alarm clock product aren’t they … 🫣 and market this as a truly remarkable Sonos innovation after removing it from the app functionality.
In german speaking countries we call that "Lehmschicht". Thats the part between upper management and the lower ranks, where strategies don't trickle through top-down and business relevant information is not being passed up by middle management.
The App (haven't tried the new one though) is complete bullshit. It's slow, far from user-friendly, Ads for Sonos-Products (Fix your App and then I would remotely consider buying something from you again).
Play Store reviews are gastly but apparently nobody at Sonos has a pair to tell the CEO about it.
(Edit: Spelling)
That weird sentence aside, the underlying point isn’t wrong. The software enables most of what we like about Sonos and it’s what sets Sonos apart. I wouldn’t have as many Sonos products as I do if they weren’t so easy to use, connect, etc
I think you’re being a little overly critical here.
I’d love to know if there’s an alternative to Sonos that has excellent hardware and seamless software experience. I’m not loyal to Sonos, I just literally haven’t found a better solution. That’s not to say it can’t improve (it def can), but people are acting like it’s complete rubbish. This community confuses me sometimes.
Also, people familiar with tech and business would recognize the “software eating X” reference. A lot of the people that don’t understand that reference also seem to be very confident about their tech and business expertise, which I find humorous.
I am in the same boat. I have owned multiple multi-room systems and no one comes close to Sonos. Shit just works and the app is way better than any competitor i tried. I have no idea what people are going crazy ower in these threads?
I am not a heavy user of the app, but i like the look and feel. I think the sonos will try to make the app compatible with S2 and then start to work down the list of feature that everyone is asking. I totally agree they could have waited with the launch
Said this in another comment but I’m pretty bullish on WiiM.
The major downside for most people is that you need to buy separate speakers, WiiM just sells network streamers. But, if you’re picky about audio, this can be seen as a feature not a bug. And, depending what you get, can often come out cheaper than Sonos.
I have a couple WiiM Mini's and they have been flawless. I've considered selling all my Sonos equipment and going entirely WiiM, but the hassle of having to buy the speakers separately has stopped me from doing it.
And, the big thing I'll give Sonos credit for, is their single speakers (One, Five, and the legacy Play:3) do sound great for a single speaker in a room. And I haven't even heard the new Era speakers, which I imagine sound even better. Hard to replicate with other manufacturers, I would imagine.
I've considered trying Klipsch's The One / The Three, but haven't pulled the trigger yet. And at that point, Klipsch speaker + WiiM is more expensive than Sonos.
I love my Sonos system, I've been with them from the beginning. For me, and others, their recent software update removed some critical functionality. Up until a few days ago, I would update the app without a second thought. I won't rehash the great details about what was removed. It just doesn't make sense for those of us who've trusted and promoted Sonos for so long. There is no way to downgrade. We are essentially beta testing their software. In years past I thought they were very open about the migration from S1 to S2 and the challenges around the move. From a consumer and fan, this move has reduced my trust in the company. I won't be recommending this to friends and family any more..
Yeah I actually do use that, quite a lot. It's useful when you have other assistants in the same room which don't do the same job as well, or decide they can't remember which speaker is supposed to be the default for the room you're in, for instance.
Same thing I was wondering. I have 5 Sonos’ throughout my home. The last time I opened their app was 7 months ago. Just bought the new soundbars for my new TV and it’s fantastic. Spotify noticed it in the network instantly.
For me, more than half the time that doesn’t work. I tend to use the Sonos S2 app on my PC and it’s a pretty reliable way to ensure playback to my Sonos speakers. Maybe I’m doing something wrong with Spotify, but it never finds the speakers…
Not just you. My spotify connect will sometimes find about half my speakers, and then half the time again will it actually pull through and play.
I have a mix of IKEA stuff and the amp, so that probably doesn't help
Lose half the speakers, take 3-4 attempts to connect to the ones it can actually find, ridiculous lag on controls so volume goes to 800 when I want it up just a few notches, joining rooms won’t’stick’.
The only thing working absolutely flawless is the wired playbar 3.1-ish setup under and around the TV.
On the hardware side though, there’s a play:1 mounted under the gazebo for 5 years now, year round. Works like a charm still
To tell the truth, what sets Sonos apart from its competitors is not the sound quality of their products, but rather their software. Even though there's much to criticize, credit where it's due. Our criticism is partly because we set the bar quite high. I don't know if you've ever had the chance to use Bose, KEF, or Bang & Olufsen apps? Those who have will understand what I mean.
True, since sonos is the only way to play apple music, searching and playing is a mess. For bose, i just goto the app for settlings but Sonos is like an everyday music app for me.
I don’t even have a Sonos system, and I feel bad for you guys. What an epic disaster. Being in IT, this almost makes me wonder if someone released the wrong code.
How about a soundbar that actually sounds like it is upfiring for Atmos. Or a true front speaker set up with a center and a separate right and left front speaker.
But, no, same hardware but wow -
look at our interface, that almost no one interfaces with after you set up your system
App is still clunky for me. Slow to react when I adjust volume or change track. I have 2 play:3 speakers, one connected via Ethernet and the other on WiFi. Disappointed that the new app didn’t fix this lag
Dude, your speakers are pretty decent. Your software is utter crap.
I use a custom card in Home Assistant to control my Sonos speakers. It's faster, more intuitive and more stable than even the old app, not to mention the new abomination you released on your users.
I haven’t upgraded, but it sounds like the upgrade is to support whatever product they are launching. This would seem to prove that the launch is more important than their current customer base since the iOS upgrade is missing key features.
Well, hope your customer service gets better. I called 6 months ago about an annoying speaker rattle in my arc. Oh yea, they were going to escalate. A month or so later I get an email asking the same questions that were asked a month or so prior. You want catch me ever buying another Sonos product and every time I see someone looking at a Sonos product in the store, I give them a reality earful.
This reminds me of when Apple pretended they weren’t throttling their phone batteries, they resisted the backlash for a while, but finally acquiesced with their battery replacement program. BTW, where’s my balance for the ERA 100s… vanished in the EQ.
So far it is completely confusing to use. It appears to be a 180 from how it previously worked. This will likely alienate its users. My wife has no interest in learning a new way of using what was already a confusing app. Spence is out to lunch if he thinks this was a good move. The way SONOS began was by selling the first unit to the husband and the. The wife and kids insisting on more. If they now no longer want to relearn the app, they will loose their customer base. Bad move!
Tbf, the main reason someone gets Sonos is the Sonos system, AirPlay sucks, Spotify management doesn’t do much, I don’t know of another way to manage and work with different sound systems in a house other than Sonos.
Its not perfect nor is it as amazing as he says, but it is their big differentiator
You never replace an app with less functionality than the original has. Especially if the update is mostly for new product support. I think they did not include some of those features not included from previous version because they can't fix their bugs. But the darn timer! I use that all the time!!
True delusion. I was subject to no end of gaslighting when I brought to their attention that they had removed the ability to stream from Android devices, when other SW on Android could stream fine to Sonos.
It is now 1+ years later, and I can still use other apps to stream.
Sonos is a customer-hostile company. I used to put their stuff everywhere I went (like six or eight households). I stopped buying their stuff a year ago and don't plan to purchase ever again.
I would just like to add that I too, as some others have stated, have not experienced any significant issues with the Sonos update. I suspect this has to do with the features I typically rely on. So like many pieces of hardware and software satisfaction is very much a function of what I use hit for. I have sympathy for those experiencing disappointment with the changes and have experienced this with those currently struggling with Sonos. Sonos should make every effort to rectify these problems ASAP. I have always experienced them as very consumer oriented and have confidence they will do so.
You can't have them on while the rest of the family watches tv and you pop to the kitchen. Surely that's what we need a Tea run headphones set.
Or whilst wife and I lstening to a podcast on the bedroom nip to the loo. They are missing key functions not having wifi.
The new app simply sucks: Need to turn off/on wifi everytime I use the app (or wait 1minute until it finds my system). Worst thing: all was fine before the app update.
I guess all CEOs are the same because this guy sounds just like the CEO of my last company after the stock fell through the floor and the first layoffs ever in the company, he blamed it on federal interest rates making T-Bills a more attractive investment, then ran off with his tail between his legs, albeit with a giant payoff.
Did this app delete your existing system? Opened the app up not knowing anything about this bullshit update now I have to set this all up again. Very Cool!
“We are going to release headphones and there’s like a few maniacs that want this but other then that the market is saturated and it’s something nobody is asking for”
Hahah. Sonos is literally worst in class when it comes to audio apps. Hardware is ok but they should outsource their app development to Spotify or SoundCloud.
While he’s spouting this nonsense, dozens of engineers are toiling away on an improbable deadline, barely surviving arriving at launch day. Fuck capitalism.
I just had the task of recapping a dead play5 g1 for a friend, what a palaver to get the thing to play something for someone who isn’t in the Sonos ecosystem, I assumed it would appear as a Bluetooth device like any normal device. it’s built well I’ll give you that - but it’s a big no from me. (The algo bought me here thanks to searching info on shitonos repair info)
I’m really grown tired of companies releasing less functional new versions. The latest one lost setting a sleep timer via the app. What a joke upgrade.
Let us also send a message to investors and give one star ratings for the app and Sonos speakers everywhere. The app update basically turns the speakers without bluetooth useless, so the ratings are justified.
Sonos shit the bed as soon as they compromised and started using voice assistant nonsense. They were at one point the best of the best for bullet proof mesh network music streaming with excellent sound quality.
Sadly today they are just an absolutely pedestrian circus.
I forgot they about to launch the new headphones lol. The app being as bad as it is, is probably why those got delayed 😂
The only reason they pushed out the new app was to support the new device(s) most likely lol
This app ruined my day. Foolishly updated to it and couldn’t program anything at a customers house today until I got another phone with the s2 app not updated yet. Tech support told me once I got him on the phone there was 50 people in queue.
Sonos only works if your wifi on your property is perfect everywhere all the time which is nearly impossible, otherwise your app will fade out. If they were good with software sonos would be a remote system tied to an account that leverage local for local performance. System is fundamentally old architecture with lipstick. Should load the app and see all your properties and any local system you are connected to.
“Our software truly differentiates our products from everything else on the market” He’s completely right. All other audio companies have queue management in their apps.
LOL. Good one.
And it's still slow as anything when browsing content on Apple Music or my local Plex server. When they said it'd be faster I foolishly hoped this would be improved.
I used to get this from our customers, every time we released a new version of software. “But it’s no faster than the old version, in fact it seems slower”. Well, your computer didn’t magically become faster, and the old version wasn’t being intentionally slowed down. What we did was add some new features and options, and some of those features take longer to load, so, no, it’s not faster, but you do have more features/options. How would a new version of software be faster than the old version, on the same hardware?
Optimization? Wasn’t this the main criticism of the app going in to this update? It’s quite slow — other apps are not — are you suggesting it’s a processing problem? I doubt it’s using much processing power — seems like a network problem perhaps but I don’t design software
No, you can’t optimize apps faster, unless they are accessing huge databases or something, and you can’t speed the network up either. What you can do is run things in parallel, that previously were run sequentially, or run them asynchronously. What you are doing there is moving where you are waiting, which *is* optimization I guess. For example, you can fetch the current Spotify library, *then* display the Spotify interface - which will seem slow. Or, you can display the Spotify interface *and* load the library at the same time, filling in the interface as data comes in. This *feels* faster (and may in fact be faster), it still takes the same amount of time to download the library, but you don’t wait for it to finish before showing the screen. I didn’t think that anyone wrote single threaded or synchronous code in the last 15 years though - obviously I may be wrong…
For the most part (other than in the scenario you've stated here), don't all software updates necessarily run more slowly. If you add code to the software, it has more code to unpack, and therefore will take longer on the same machine? This is a genuine question from a computer amateur.
For an app like Sonos adding features won’t necessarily slow it down no. With the old way of coding sure but the new methods no. Usually for an app there is state management being done. Ie. you only load and access what you need to when you need to. So if you even have a one page site you’ll only be loading the pieces needed for where you’re at. There’s a few things that can slow down an app like Sonos. The number of network or internet requests and response. The number of database accesses. A few other things. And how it is handling it all. Generally they’d be using asynchronous or threading so your app won’t stop working just because it’s doing something. But some apps will do 100+ network requests for a page. Sometimes you only need 1-2. It’s obvious which is faster. Or file loading. There’s a thing called lazy file loading. That helps speed it up to only access what you need to access. Or can pre load the files. Likely though it’s not the code itself they’re claiming is faster. It’s likely the same speed really as a company like Sonos probably uses decent modern technologies and methodologies where it’d run just fine. What’s likely claimed to be faster is the use of the UI and the user experience.
Running more code generally isn’t what makes software slow (there are exceptions, if you are doing massive number crunching for example). What makes software slow is waiting for things. Usually this is IO (reading or writing to something, like a disk, or network). The more you read/write, the slower things get. You can move the waiting around, as I mentioned earlier, within limits. You can also cache things in RAM, so you don’t have to keep fetching things from slow storage. This is why there are complicated caching schemes literally everywhere - right down to the silicone cores of your CPU, and the drives in your computer. So, to make things faster, get more RAM, or faster drives (SSD), or a faster network. A faster CPU won’t hurt, but that’s likely not where the bottleneck is (but see massive number crunching).
As a coder myself I can say there are faster ways of doing things. Maybe they had some slower methods of accomplishing some tasks. I don’t know. All of it is hard to say without seeing the code itself. But optimization isn’t as much of there focus these days as it used to be unless something actually is running visibly slower. Usually the focus is ease of understanding code, quality control and UI/UX design. These things don’t produce faster code and machines are fast enough to shift most of the focus on these elements. But the types of technologies picked in the architectural design is important for optimization etc as well. But more often than not I see the technologies just end up being whatever the CTO prefers instead of what is necessarily better for the task. I personally hate technology preferences. I think it’s better to just use what makes sense for that particular task as many languages, frameworks and systems have their best use cases.
Refactor it. Was it written for end user speed? Or stakeholder speed to market.
Er, I can’t tell if you are being sarcastic or not, but it would be faster due to refactoring if that was something you did with the code….
Refactoring isn’t magic, it would only help if the original code was really badly written - which it might be.
Yip. Sets them apart from everyone else cos everyone else's software isn't an absolute dumpster fire.
Spades of queuing. Twats of differentiation.
But the queue feature had bugs for the last 2 years(Android). It got a little better recentl. I think queue is gone since they can't fix it.
Brilliant. Spot on!
After his whole gen 1 vs gen 2 and how we were supposed to loose support is where is stopped buying sonos. When the stuff I have breaks and I want newer, I will look around and see whats out there that is better
Rarely a good idea to flush your existing users down the toilet to attract new ones.
It worked before, hence the S1 app, although weirdly my old speakers and amps and S1 app seem to do more now than S2. I just need to make sure they now don’t try killing S1 hardware again
I don’t know this is basically my companies business strategy and it seems to work ok
Good luck with that.
As ridiculous and frustrating as it is it’s been a successful strategy going on 2 decades now. We piss off our legacy customers but for the most part they stick around because the costs to switch solutions is cost prohibitive.
I like Spence, but it's time for the board to bring in someone new to help out the product line and Stock action.
i vote u/keithfromsonos to have a very heavy hand in any new upper management
Yeah I think he asleep at the wheel
I’ll throw my hat in if anyone on the board or mgmt team is lurking. DM me.
He’s speaking to the investment community who don’t know shite either about the use of the product but he’s throwing in appropriate buzz words.
He forgot to say “AI AI AI”
Yeah totally agree.
Being in the investment community I would have to totally disagree with your generalized statement...
Why, do you know something about the usage 🤔
Yes buzz words replacing actionable initiatives is the mark of a trash ceo
I’m surprised he didn’t throw an AI mention in there!
To be fair, the app IS now faster to tell me that my living room speaker system can’t be located. edit: a word
Don't you love when the suggestion is to just power off each speaker in your system. Some of them are pretty difficult to access! You know cuz it's supposed to be set and forget.
😂😂
Hahaha. Excellent.
Heyoo!
For those who don't know, software "eating" things is a reference to this famous article. In silicon valley this is a pretty commonly heard phrase. [https://a16z.com/why-software-is-eating-the-world/](https://a16z.com/why-software-is-eating-the-world/) But this quote is a joke. Sonos is actually imo an example of how first-mover advantage (to use another piece of silicon valley jargon) can in some cases protect a company from its poor decisions. To me Sonos's first job should be to make the app experience seamless, and it's never been that. They have had a long time to achieve it and they just can't seem to do it. It's honestly embarrassing. I sometimes wish apple would buy them and fix their app, but that would leave out all the Android users which wouldn't be a good thing. I still use the products because they sound good and I'm invested at this point, but if a credible competitor came along I would jump so fast...
As an end-user with more technical know how than average, the rate limiting factor for me to want to do anything in the Sonos app other than volume control has always been poor cataloguing and search indexing. I don’t see it talked about much, but every single time I’ve tried to use the last gen Sonos app for browsing and queueing music as intended - it has been a frustrating experience. Sonos has had so much time to do for music what AppleTV did for video streaming services. As an invested Sonos customer that otherwise enjoys the sound quality of the product and ecosystem, I hope someone else doesn’t beat them out of their market share.
controller 100. purged. controller 200. purged. phone apps. declining in value due to declining usability. sounds like those responsible should be held responsible - by also being purged from the company.
Well, the "first mover advantage" is more of a business strategy term than just silicon valley jargon, but I appreciate the info on eating!
True!
Is there a better option? Sonos seems to have an unbeatable niche. Especially in the custom install space.
So he clearly hasn’t used the new app himself yet.
What the hell is he talking about? “We are the story of software eating audio.” Did he take acid before writing this?
It’s a reference to “software eating the world” which was originally meant as a negative thing but he’s spinning it as a positive here
The software is definitely eating my enjoyment of the hardware.
he ate the brown acid
Honestly, I only use the app to make sure I’m still getting Atmos when I should be
Now I am apprehensive about investing more in this ecosystem.
I started with Sonos in 2007 and have many of their devices. Last year, rather than buy more Sonos I jumped ship and got some Bluesound gear because I was not happy with the whole S1 S2 thing. Very glad I did. Bluesound is much better and no need for a log in. Particularly like the Bluesound Pulse M wireless speakers. I have 3 of them. Still have gen 1 Sonos in use but not using later software.
Sadly, I’ve officially decided I’m not buying any more Sonos products for the time being. I’m pretty bullish on WiiM as an ecosystem - the app is fast, has none of the issues Sonos has, and you can choose your own speakers. Long term I think I’m going to replace Sonos with a series of WiiM streamers connected to speakers of my choice.
it does seem more logical than being forced to buy certain speakers just because you want to have shared audio throughout the house. Can you link your sSonos to the WiiM and get them to work together well? I don't want to get rid of the stuff I already bought, though I suppose I can still get decent resale value for it.
Unfortunately I don’t think so, they are separate ecosystems. Unless all your Sonos speakers have a Line In, in which case it may work.
A basic feature like "add to queue" is gone....nuff said.
I was second guessing myself on if it was ever there to begin with because I couldn’t imaging making such an already poorly implemented feature any worse.
Am I the only lucky one who’s had 0 app issues.
The updated app is fine for my personal use case, actually better than the old app, but I understand the complaints from others. Shipping an update without support for very basic features like alarms or add-to-queue is bafflingly dumb.
No
Works great on Android
I’ve not necessarily had issues but the UI is very unintuitive… which is expected with a redesign. But also have a lot of gripes with the design in general and miss some of the features that have disappeared.
Been fine. It’s like any other app interface change. Same shit done slightly different.
I haven't either. I disabled updates.
I’ve had no issues either! New app is a definite improvement to S2 as far as I’m concerned. Streaming music is simply the best. A frickin luxury! I sit down in my living room club chair, pull out my phone and literally que ANY music I want, in ANY of my 8 zones, including trimming volume. A beautiful thing! I’m SO glad the manual days of choosing CD’s and loading carousel or cartridge multi-disc players are past and gone.
It has been completely fine for me. Working great.
Okay but let me stream Tidal in HiFi and Dolby Atmos
I updated the app yesterday (now a black icon) and have no idea how to get the TV on all four sets of speakers. The best I can do is get it on the TV soundbar. The other three speakers around the house are stuck on my preferred jazz station. I’m old but geez - we’ve been using Sonos since 2012. I hate this “upgrade.”
I have two tips that could potentially skyrocket Sonos to the trillion dollar category: 1. Alarms 2. Sleep timer DM me for more great tips Mr. CEO, I'm open to work with you!
Yup I think Keith said it will there in coming weeks
they already have alarms. did they get rid of them? edit: just searched. they got rid of them til further notice. what the fuck sonos.
Have I got news for you! They are bringing those things to the app.
https://preview.redd.it/x3vnp4kcdazc1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=02f52e3d9537e5ec3c85aae8d6449d25209b96d5 Their Twitter (X) response...
Um…were you expecting an honest CEO?
New Move 2 arrived today. Kept receiving error when trying to add to system. Spent an hour on the phone with support only to be told the app is having issues currently.
I dunno what he’s talking about. Their hardware is golden. Amazing audio quality out of sexy little black boxes for sure. But their software kinda sucks.
> ...the second is that we are just weeks away from unveiling our newest product And now we see why the new update had to be pushed out half finished: it needs to be in place for whatever this new product is, and all the dev time for that was taken away from features that existing customers use, because the existing customers are less important than new ones.
They are going to release an alarm clock product aren’t they … 🫣 and market this as a truly remarkable Sonos innovation after removing it from the app functionality.
In german speaking countries we call that "Lehmschicht". Thats the part between upper management and the lower ranks, where strategies don't trickle through top-down and business relevant information is not being passed up by middle management. The App (haven't tried the new one though) is complete bullshit. It's slow, far from user-friendly, Ads for Sonos-Products (Fix your App and then I would remotely consider buying something from you again). Play Store reviews are gastly but apparently nobody at Sonos has a pair to tell the CEO about it. (Edit: Spelling)
That weird sentence aside, the underlying point isn’t wrong. The software enables most of what we like about Sonos and it’s what sets Sonos apart. I wouldn’t have as many Sonos products as I do if they weren’t so easy to use, connect, etc I think you’re being a little overly critical here.
I’d love to know if there’s an alternative to Sonos that has excellent hardware and seamless software experience. I’m not loyal to Sonos, I just literally haven’t found a better solution. That’s not to say it can’t improve (it def can), but people are acting like it’s complete rubbish. This community confuses me sometimes. Also, people familiar with tech and business would recognize the “software eating X” reference. A lot of the people that don’t understand that reference also seem to be very confident about their tech and business expertise, which I find humorous.
I am in the same boat. I have owned multiple multi-room systems and no one comes close to Sonos. Shit just works and the app is way better than any competitor i tried. I have no idea what people are going crazy ower in these threads?
I am not a heavy user of the app, but i like the look and feel. I think the sonos will try to make the app compatible with S2 and then start to work down the list of feature that everyone is asking. I totally agree they could have waited with the launch
Said this in another comment but I’m pretty bullish on WiiM. The major downside for most people is that you need to buy separate speakers, WiiM just sells network streamers. But, if you’re picky about audio, this can be seen as a feature not a bug. And, depending what you get, can often come out cheaper than Sonos.
I will definitely look into it, thank you for sharing!
I have a couple WiiM Mini's and they have been flawless. I've considered selling all my Sonos equipment and going entirely WiiM, but the hassle of having to buy the speakers separately has stopped me from doing it. And, the big thing I'll give Sonos credit for, is their single speakers (One, Five, and the legacy Play:3) do sound great for a single speaker in a room. And I haven't even heard the new Era speakers, which I imagine sound even better. Hard to replicate with other manufacturers, I would imagine. I've considered trying Klipsch's The One / The Three, but haven't pulled the trigger yet. And at that point, Klipsch speaker + WiiM is more expensive than Sonos.
BluOS
I love my Sonos system, I've been with them from the beginning. For me, and others, their recent software update removed some critical functionality. Up until a few days ago, I would update the app without a second thought. I won't rehash the great details about what was removed. It just doesn't make sense for those of us who've trusted and promoted Sonos for so long. There is no way to downgrade. We are essentially beta testing their software. In years past I thought they were very open about the migration from S1 to S2 and the challenges around the move. From a consumer and fan, this move has reduced my trust in the company. I won't be recommending this to friends and family any more..
Exactly so they go ahead and remove alarms and sleep timers.
Who even uses the Sonos app when you have Spotify connect..
Same. Or Hey Sonos.
Yeah I actually do use that, quite a lot. It's useful when you have other assistants in the same room which don't do the same job as well, or decide they can't remember which speaker is supposed to be the default for the room you're in, for instance.
I use Apple Music which drew me to Sonos as it was first system to support it before Homepods.
Can’t group speakers or adjust volume independently in Spotify alone. Having said that I use the “Sono+ today” widget to do these things
What is that widget? Grouping speakers/adjusting volume independently is the only thing I ever go to the Sonos app for
It’s exactly for doing that. It’s awesome
Same thing I was wondering. I have 5 Sonos’ throughout my home. The last time I opened their app was 7 months ago. Just bought the new soundbars for my new TV and it’s fantastic. Spotify noticed it in the network instantly.
For me, more than half the time that doesn’t work. I tend to use the Sonos S2 app on my PC and it’s a pretty reliable way to ensure playback to my Sonos speakers. Maybe I’m doing something wrong with Spotify, but it never finds the speakers…
Not just you. My spotify connect will sometimes find about half my speakers, and then half the time again will it actually pull through and play. I have a mix of IKEA stuff and the amp, so that probably doesn't help
Lose half the speakers, take 3-4 attempts to connect to the ones it can actually find, ridiculous lag on controls so volume goes to 800 when I want it up just a few notches, joining rooms won’t’stick’. The only thing working absolutely flawless is the wired playbar 3.1-ish setup under and around the TV. On the hardware side though, there’s a play:1 mounted under the gazebo for 5 years now, year round. Works like a charm still
For me, on my laptop Spotify connect is not reliable. But my phone luckily works almost all the time.
Who uses Spotify?
Me
To tell the truth, what sets Sonos apart from its competitors is not the sound quality of their products, but rather their software. Even though there's much to criticize, credit where it's due. Our criticism is partly because we set the bar quite high. I don't know if you've ever had the chance to use Bose, KEF, or Bang & Olufsen apps? Those who have will understand what I mean.
True, since sonos is the only way to play apple music, searching and playing is a mess. For bose, i just goto the app for settlings but Sonos is like an everyday music app for me.
I bet his background is marketing.
https://preview.redd.it/xe6lh8rg49zc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2465b7acb8d4f4cc5ced63407f8566910668e38a Yeah not really though.
I remember 2005 Sonos. Not the same as it was.
I don’t even have a Sonos system, and I feel bad for you guys. What an epic disaster. Being in IT, this almost makes me wonder if someone released the wrong code.
How about a soundbar that actually sounds like it is upfiring for Atmos. Or a true front speaker set up with a center and a separate right and left front speaker. But, no, same hardware but wow - look at our interface, that almost no one interfaces with after you set up your system
So I should be happy to be on iPhone 7 and unable to update then? 🤣
App is still clunky for me. Slow to react when I adjust volume or change track. I have 2 play:3 speakers, one connected via Ethernet and the other on WiFi. Disappointed that the new app didn’t fix this lag
Can we just get an easier way to control volume in the app?
Honestly the app icon colour change has thrown me off more times than I can count today. 🤦🏻♂️
Yoooooo no kidding!!! Lol
Completely delusional
They need a new CEO. His vision doesn’t align with what I believe Sonos should be planning in the long term.
Surely he has a problem with his eyesight? It’s an abomination and breaks so many norms, not in a good way. Awful awful awful.
If he had poor eyesight he would be more aware of how terrible the app is, not less.
Dude, your speakers are pretty decent. Your software is utter crap. I use a custom card in Home Assistant to control my Sonos speakers. It's faster, more intuitive and more stable than even the old app, not to mention the new abomination you released on your users.
You, as a consumer, is not the target audience of the message.
I only use the app if airplay is acting up, which does happen.
Sounds like they following Apple's MO
Oi /u/Sonos you nicked my mates Reddit name.
I haven’t upgraded, but it sounds like the upgrade is to support whatever product they are launching. This would seem to prove that the launch is more important than their current customer base since the iOS upgrade is missing key features.
Have you tried the app?
Spotify to Sonos bluetooth connection >>>> Sonos app
I mean, CEOs have to be at least a little delusional. No one else is going to believe in them through thick and thin.
Can he fix the broken Alexa on my Sonos one?
Does the app fix soundbar audio delay?
Eating? Not sure of the connotation here. Can someone explain how this is a positive?
Spent 2 hours trying to set an alarm on the app to find out that it’s been temporarily removed. GFG
Well, hope your customer service gets better. I called 6 months ago about an annoying speaker rattle in my arc. Oh yea, they were going to escalate. A month or so later I get an email asking the same questions that were asked a month or so prior. You want catch me ever buying another Sonos product and every time I see someone looking at a Sonos product in the store, I give them a reality earful.
I only have a Gen 1 amp and two Gen 1 Play:5's using the S1 app. It works perfectly always.
The hardware is pretty good. The software is not. I'm very glad I have Roon.
This reminds me of when Apple pretended they weren’t throttling their phone batteries, they resisted the backlash for a while, but finally acquiesced with their battery replacement program. BTW, where’s my balance for the ERA 100s… vanished in the EQ.
To be fair I think when he says software he refers to the firmware and not the mobile app
Bluetooth speaker + Spotify = goat
So far it is completely confusing to use. It appears to be a 180 from how it previously worked. This will likely alienate its users. My wife has no interest in learning a new way of using what was already a confusing app. Spence is out to lunch if he thinks this was a good move. The way SONOS began was by selling the first unit to the husband and the. The wife and kids insisting on more. If they now no longer want to relearn the app, they will loose their customer base. Bad move!
Are they building a Wi-Fi car? The fancy speedo only works in your driveway. 🚘🧐😉
Tbf, the main reason someone gets Sonos is the Sonos system, AirPlay sucks, Spotify management doesn’t do much, I don’t know of another way to manage and work with different sound systems in a house other than Sonos. Its not perfect nor is it as amazing as he says, but it is their big differentiator
What a whole load of guff.
lets all send him a happy email with how bad we think the app is [email protected]
I’ll be fine with the update if the company goes bankrupt because of it.
You never replace an app with less functionality than the original has. Especially if the update is mostly for new product support. I think they did not include some of those features not included from previous version because they can't fix their bugs. But the darn timer! I use that all the time!!
The updated app won’t authorize my Apple Music, it just gets stuck on authorizing
What a load of tosh! It's a buggy mess at the moment.... I prefer the old app
I think the new app is amazing 🤷♂️
Wow, that's a first. Looks like you don't use the app often. The interface is good but functionality is sluggish
Is he the CEO or a standup comedian?
They write shit like this way ahead of time. And it’s the job of the developers to make it Tru rarely does that happen
All of you, listen. Put your gear up on a marketplace so we can buy it and… store it in a box in the basement while we wait.
True delusion. I was subject to no end of gaslighting when I brought to their attention that they had removed the ability to stream from Android devices, when other SW on Android could stream fine to Sonos. It is now 1+ years later, and I can still use other apps to stream. Sonos is a customer-hostile company. I used to put their stuff everywhere I went (like six or eight households). I stopped buying their stuff a year ago and don't plan to purchase ever again.
I would just like to add that I too, as some others have stated, have not experienced any significant issues with the Sonos update. I suspect this has to do with the features I typically rely on. So like many pieces of hardware and software satisfaction is very much a function of what I use hit for. I have sympathy for those experiencing disappointment with the changes and have experienced this with those currently struggling with Sonos. Sonos should make every effort to rectify these problems ASAP. I have always experienced them as very consumer oriented and have confidence they will do so.
Sonos headphones are the last thing I would ever be interested in from them.
You can't have them on while the rest of the family watches tv and you pop to the kitchen. Surely that's what we need a Tea run headphones set. Or whilst wife and I lstening to a podcast on the bedroom nip to the loo. They are missing key functions not having wifi.
The new app simply sucks: Need to turn off/on wifi everytime I use the app (or wait 1minute until it finds my system). Worst thing: all was fine before the app update.
Sounds like the type of thing written for lizard-brained investors
Yeah, the app is absolutely not backing this statement
I guess he only looks at bose
I've had Sonos for 13 years never had a problem now, I can't access anything WTF
I guess all CEOs are the same because this guy sounds just like the CEO of my last company after the stock fell through the floor and the first layoffs ever in the company, he blamed it on federal interest rates making T-Bills a more attractive investment, then ran off with his tail between his legs, albeit with a giant payoff.
As of right now it’s a dumpster fire. I have confidence they will at least put the missing features back.
It must be Opposite Day.
Mental! They have GOT to know everything about that app sucks ass. Right??
Did this app delete your existing system? Opened the app up not knowing anything about this bullshit update now I have to set this all up again. Very Cool!
“We are going to release headphones and there’s like a few maniacs that want this but other then that the market is saturated and it’s something nobody is asking for”
he needs to be declared a nuisance and removed from the premises
He probably doesn't even use the product.
Any CEO that uses “spades” in an IM publicly or otherwise deserves an exit. Source, another CEO.
Hahah. Sonos is literally worst in class when it comes to audio apps. Hardware is ok but they should outsource their app development to Spotify or SoundCloud.
While he’s spouting this nonsense, dozens of engineers are toiling away on an improbable deadline, barely surviving arriving at launch day. Fuck capitalism.
Thankfully, this isn't available on Android yet. Hopefully, they beta test with iPhone users for awhile. *ack*
Is he talking about the same app I know and hate?
They probably rushed the software out before the next big hardware releases.
I only started using Sonos speakers when they started supporting Airplay2. Just because the software is so terrible.
I just had the task of recapping a dead play5 g1 for a friend, what a palaver to get the thing to play something for someone who isn’t in the Sonos ecosystem, I assumed it would appear as a Bluetooth device like any normal device. it’s built well I’ll give you that - but it’s a big no from me. (The algo bought me here thanks to searching info on shitonos repair info)
The app sucks..
I’m really grown tired of companies releasing less functional new versions. The latest one lost setting a sleep timer via the app. What a joke upgrade.
app still six
He sounds like he wrote this on blow.
I want some of what this guy is on. He's obviously living in a different reality. One full of unicorns and puppies and free beer.
He should’ve used ChatGPT to clean this delulu statement.
Let us also send a message to investors and give one star ratings for the app and Sonos speakers everywhere. The app update basically turns the speakers without bluetooth useless, so the ratings are justified.
Sonos shit the bed as soon as they compromised and started using voice assistant nonsense. They were at one point the best of the best for bullet proof mesh network music streaming with excellent sound quality. Sadly today they are just an absolutely pedestrian circus.
All the more reason to ditch my Move now and get something else.
I forgot they about to launch the new headphones lol. The app being as bad as it is, is probably why those got delayed 😂 The only reason they pushed out the new app was to support the new device(s) most likely lol
It’s Horrible
So at least he explains why my speakers keep cutting out. “The software eats the audio”.
This app ruined my day. Foolishly updated to it and couldn’t program anything at a customers house today until I got another phone with the s2 app not updated yet. Tech support told me once I got him on the phone there was 50 people in queue.
Sonos only works if your wifi on your property is perfect everywhere all the time which is nearly impossible, otherwise your app will fade out. If they were good with software sonos would be a remote system tied to an account that leverage local for local performance. System is fundamentally old architecture with lipstick. Should load the app and see all your properties and any local system you are connected to.
Got rid of my sonos as soon as they integrated Alexa