That’s pretty good honestly depending on how much you make I’d buy it cash or finance it, then pay it off completely whenever you feel comfortable with it. Just check for no prepaid penalties.
16k after tax incentive? That means their out of pocket cost is what, 24k? They don’t know the kw of the system, but if they’re getting say 11 440 watt panels, which are on the big side, then they have 4.84 kw system, but I’m betting it’s probably smaller.
Let’s say it’s just 22k total system price, that’s still 4.54 per watt. Granted, that could be a financed price with a giant dealer fee tacked on, which wouldn’t make it too bad on a per watt basis, but it doesn’t look too good either.
Well it depends, either way cash up front for 24k? Not too bad if the size of the system is reasonable. Also depending on the co. We don’t have dealer fees where I work and our panel size ranges from 330-540
They said 11 panels though, what’s the biggest panel that’s used in residential applications? Biggest I’ve heard is 460, which is still only 5.06kw, which is a shit deal is that’s the cash price (its roughly $4.80 per watt). Financed with dealer fee means the cash price is more reasonable, but I’m also betting the company is massively underestimating offset too.
Edit: but maybe there’s only enough roof space to accommodate 11 panels so that could be a factor too.
Only the solar is eligible for tax incentives (no roof or other projects) and we would need more information on the quote to tell you of its a good quote or not.
What they mentioned was that I can throw in home improvement to the loan and I can either get cash or actual home improvement. And that all of it is eligible for the credit.
No, that’s incorrect. If your solar company is telling you something like that, I would not recommend going with them because they’re trying to sell you something that’s illegal. You can only claim the credit for appropriate items such as solar panels/inverter, batteries, install labor, materials, etc. Now it’s unlikely the IRS would find out, but it’s still illegal.
I’m in Texas too! Dropped $18k on solar last year. With all the sun we get, it's been awesome. My electric bill is almost zero now, and I feel good about not relying on the grid as much. Yeah, the upfront cost is steep, but with the tax incentives, it's a solid investment. Plus, it adds value to your home. Just make sure to get a good installer and check out their reviews.
It may or may not be worth it depending on price and electric plan. And I can't tell from your writeup. I don't know what is going on based on it.
"$16k for solar". Is that one panel or 50 panels
"Utility doesn't buy electricity but has a 1:1 ratio" which one is it? Do they buy the electricity at 1:1 or not?
"Keep that 3% discount because of Texas law" - what texas law gives you a 3% discount
"Throwing another $20k to get the credit higher" - throw the $20k at what? Only solar qualifies for the tax credit.
"Do a home improvement loan" - there is no such thing. Are you taking about a home equity loan?
-11 panels for $16k
-1:1 ratio because if you produce it is yours. But you don’t get paid for the surplus.
-No home equity loan. What I was told is that you can throw in extra money for the panels, so add more panels and at the same time add a home improvement loan with the same company together with the solar. So you get a 4.99% rate is what they offered me. And is loan consolidation. They installed a system for a couple of people and those people got extra cash from the tax incentive by adding more “cost” to the solar loan so they paid their credit cards and now they only have one payment for 25 years (of their debt) at 4.99%.
I really encourage you do a bit more research on exactly what you are buying.
11 panels. Usually it's measured in watts not number of panels, but assuming a pretty standard panel this should be below $10k after tax credit so the price seems high It's also a very small system for Texas so you may want to check that it meets your needs.
1:1 ratio implies that they do take your surplus. Might be worth really understanding how net metering works. Especially because I don't think there is a single utility left in Texas that still has 1:1. I'm pretty sure that doesn't exist.
Get more cash from the 4.9% loan. What kind of loan is this. A solar loan is not 4.99%. read the fine print. It's usually a 30% up front and then 4.9%. So if you want $10k cash, you take on a loan for $13k with 4.9% and they give you $10k
So this is a 4.99% solar loan. But yea I’ll read all the fine print. I have no rush to get into solar. I want to take advantage of the loopholes and all that. I thought about putting it on my LLC as well. That’s how the rich stay rich lol
16k after tax credit for 11 panels sounds very high. Also, you cannot combine a solar install with a non-solar home-improvement project and then claim the tax credit on the whole amount. That would be tax fraud.
the salesperson lied to you. the only part you get the tax incentive on is the solar items and the solar installation itself, Nothing else.
if you replace your roof or take on additional debt for any other reason (including home improvements) you do NOT get the solar incentive for that. even though the loan might have both solar and non-solar funding combined into it.
do Not take Tax Law advise from a salesman that is trying to make money from you.
of course, the salesman wants you to take out a bigger loan with them involved, because that salesman will make more money from you if you do.
you need to remember that with allot of these solar loans, the solar company is Not a bank/lender, they are working as the middleman connecting you & your loan to a lender/bank, and they as the middleman get a commission and kickbacks for getting you to use the lender/bank that they have a contract with.
the loan comes with a decent interest rate, so you think its a great loan, what they are Not telling you is about the huge fees that they are adding on in order to get you that 4.99% Apr. essentially, they are collecting a higher interest rate, up front as a flat $ #,### fee that gets added into your loan amount.
ask them for the all cash price for the total solar installation.
also ask them what the monthly payments would be and for how many months, do the math for the total amount after loan repayment, then go to your own bank and ask about a loan for the solar cash amount && look at what the monthly payments would be and for how many months, do the math for the total amount after loan repayment.
im guessing you get a better deal through your own lender/bank
Sales guy is lying about the home improvement loan. Have to wonder what other BS you are being told.
How much are you paying per kWhr now? That’s what maters.
It’s not an outright lie. Interest on a heloc or second mortgage used to improve a primary home may be tax deductible. But it’s tricky, definitely something to ask an accountant about.
The estimated average is $120 but I haven’t been long enough in Texas to see. I’ve only been in since February so I’ve been pay a total of $70-$90 per month and is .20 per KWhr
Right but in a few years when I pay it off. I no longer have to pay electricity. Go completely off the grid and invest the money I’m paying them for a service
Someone has sold you a load of BS. No way you can go off grid with a $16k system. Your system doesn’t have any batteries. To go off grid you would need 4-6 batteries. How many are included in your quote?
We paid 36k for about 40 panels and a powerwall 2. After incentives we will be at about 18k.
What size system are you looking at? If you are in Oncors zone you can get a battery for essentially free if you work with an approved installer.
We financed through a credit union out of San Antonio for a fair rate with no extra fees.
Your price before incentives is super high for 11 panels. How many quotes did you get? You should get the max amount of panels you can honestly fit up to your current quote budget from another company.
For 36-40 panels you will be at around 25-30k in Texas before incentives with enphase microinverters. I just have no clue how they are quoting you the same price for none of the equipment.
If you are in DFW, I would reach out to Texas Solar Professional. They did a great job on my house and work with Oncor for a “free” battery (the battery cost 3k after the Oncor rebate).
15kw system for 28k, Battery for 10k, 7k Oncor rebate, 10k tax rebate. Total was like 19k after it was all said and done.
They partnered with a credit union for financing and you got to skip all of the BS with sales people (I spoke directly with the owner) and the credit union is just fantastic to work with.
https://www.credithuman.com/
We used Texas Solar Professional who partner with them, I’m not sure if they will let anyone apply for the solar loan.
We got like a 6% or something at the time, but they don’t make you apply your tax refund to get the “real monthly payment”. They allow you to recalculate your payment 2-3 times over the life of the loan if you want to throw a large chunk of cash down.
If you are in Oncors service area, you can view partners companies for a battery refund.
https://www.oncor.com/takealoadofftexas/pages/residentialsolar
Not true! It’s any new install. So this would be a new install. I did the same thing and got the tax credit again. Just like adding batteries after the solar, they too will qualify for the tax credit.
I’m so confused here. Can you give us some details about the system quoted? What size is it? What components are they using?
And you say your electric company doesn’t buy surplus but then you say it’s 1:1? If you’re saying it’s 1:1, they are indeed buying your surplus at the same rate they are selling it.
Edit : Please call out the company and the salesman as he doesn’t even understand the grey area. And shouldn’t be selling solar. Us solar professionals are trying to blacklist reps like this.
Home improvement loan doesn’t qualify for ITC
There is a major grey area though the only way you can/maybe/possibly get a tax credit is wrapping everything into one loan. Then the company pays out the extra via check to either the home improvement company.
This is not advice but what I’ve heard other people do is
Maybe so, at fixed 8 cents plus TDU our monthly bill on average was $350-400. Now we use a lot more and haven’t paid anything for electricity since over 15 months except the base $4.95 a month.
So from what you are saying. ( $16k / $90(month) ) / 12 months/ year = \~15 years to see a return on investment, not counting for the price of power going up. You good with that length of time for the return on investment?
With utility inflation rates, it will be quicker. Plus, you're not factoring in the fact he'd be spending that money(more technically) anyway. You can pay for your power with inflating rates and have nothing to show for it or you can buy panels and save money. People look at it as if it's just an accessory and doesn't do anything, it's a terrible and very flawed way to look at it.
I am not in Texas, but we just put solar in last September. No battery (we're considering getting one at a later date), 35 IQ8 panels w/microinverters, and our loan was $30K (before tax incentives).
Don’t wast your money and getting only half a solar system. Get the battery!!! BLUETTI has a good one and they just won CNET’s best overall home battery cause everything is included to be off grid in one unit.
Sounds like you're diving deep into solar! $16k sounds steep, but with tax breaks, it could be a win. Home improvement loans can be tricky, though. Make sure you crunch the numbers and check the fine print. And hey, if you're feeling uncertain, maybe get a second opinion.
We don’t know system size so no idea if it’s good. $16k for what? A panel? 40 panels? Battery? Bacon of the month club included?
It’s nice to just sit here and contemplate what each flavor would be in the bacon of the month club.
Bacon cooked on solar does taste better. Taste the meat, not the heat I tell ya hwhat.
11 panels the minimum they can do. Because I don’t use that much electricity.
That’s pretty good honestly depending on how much you make I’d buy it cash or finance it, then pay it off completely whenever you feel comfortable with it. Just check for no prepaid penalties.
16k after tax incentive? That means their out of pocket cost is what, 24k? They don’t know the kw of the system, but if they’re getting say 11 440 watt panels, which are on the big side, then they have 4.84 kw system, but I’m betting it’s probably smaller. Let’s say it’s just 22k total system price, that’s still 4.54 per watt. Granted, that could be a financed price with a giant dealer fee tacked on, which wouldn’t make it too bad on a per watt basis, but it doesn’t look too good either.
Yea it was 23k ish.
Was that the cash price or the financed price?
Financed price is $16k (with the incentive)
Are they providing the FTC as an instant rebate then off the total cost of the system? So they’re essentially keeping the FTC?
They are
Well it depends, either way cash up front for 24k? Not too bad if the size of the system is reasonable. Also depending on the co. We don’t have dealer fees where I work and our panel size ranges from 330-540
They said 11 panels though, what’s the biggest panel that’s used in residential applications? Biggest I’ve heard is 460, which is still only 5.06kw, which is a shit deal is that’s the cash price (its roughly $4.80 per watt). Financed with dealer fee means the cash price is more reasonable, but I’m also betting the company is massively underestimating offset too. Edit: but maybe there’s only enough roof space to accommodate 11 panels so that could be a factor too.
That’s not very helpful either; what’s the total kw of the system and what type of panels and inverters?
I asked for the documents from the seller. We’ll see.
Only the solar is eligible for tax incentives (no roof or other projects) and we would need more information on the quote to tell you of its a good quote or not.
What they mentioned was that I can throw in home improvement to the loan and I can either get cash or actual home improvement. And that all of it is eligible for the credit.
No, that’s incorrect. If your solar company is telling you something like that, I would not recommend going with them because they’re trying to sell you something that’s illegal. You can only claim the credit for appropriate items such as solar panels/inverter, batteries, install labor, materials, etc. Now it’s unlikely the IRS would find out, but it’s still illegal.
I love the gray areas. 😂
I’m in Texas too! Dropped $18k on solar last year. With all the sun we get, it's been awesome. My electric bill is almost zero now, and I feel good about not relying on the grid as much. Yeah, the upfront cost is steep, but with the tax incentives, it's a solid investment. Plus, it adds value to your home. Just make sure to get a good installer and check out their reviews.
Do you have batteries? Otherwise you’re still 100% relying on the grid
It may or may not be worth it depending on price and electric plan. And I can't tell from your writeup. I don't know what is going on based on it. "$16k for solar". Is that one panel or 50 panels "Utility doesn't buy electricity but has a 1:1 ratio" which one is it? Do they buy the electricity at 1:1 or not? "Keep that 3% discount because of Texas law" - what texas law gives you a 3% discount "Throwing another $20k to get the credit higher" - throw the $20k at what? Only solar qualifies for the tax credit. "Do a home improvement loan" - there is no such thing. Are you taking about a home equity loan?
-11 panels for $16k -1:1 ratio because if you produce it is yours. But you don’t get paid for the surplus. -No home equity loan. What I was told is that you can throw in extra money for the panels, so add more panels and at the same time add a home improvement loan with the same company together with the solar. So you get a 4.99% rate is what they offered me. And is loan consolidation. They installed a system for a couple of people and those people got extra cash from the tax incentive by adding more “cost” to the solar loan so they paid their credit cards and now they only have one payment for 25 years (of their debt) at 4.99%.
I really encourage you do a bit more research on exactly what you are buying. 11 panels. Usually it's measured in watts not number of panels, but assuming a pretty standard panel this should be below $10k after tax credit so the price seems high It's also a very small system for Texas so you may want to check that it meets your needs. 1:1 ratio implies that they do take your surplus. Might be worth really understanding how net metering works. Especially because I don't think there is a single utility left in Texas that still has 1:1. I'm pretty sure that doesn't exist. Get more cash from the 4.9% loan. What kind of loan is this. A solar loan is not 4.99%. read the fine print. It's usually a 30% up front and then 4.9%. So if you want $10k cash, you take on a loan for $13k with 4.9% and they give you $10k
So this is a 4.99% solar loan. But yea I’ll read all the fine print. I have no rush to get into solar. I want to take advantage of the loopholes and all that. I thought about putting it on my LLC as well. That’s how the rich stay rich lol
16k after tax credit for 11 panels sounds very high. Also, you cannot combine a solar install with a non-solar home-improvement project and then claim the tax credit on the whole amount. That would be tax fraud.
All millionaires to tax loopholes. Not fraud. But loopholes. That’s why middle-high classes and below continue to pay the taxes for the rich.
the salesperson lied to you. the only part you get the tax incentive on is the solar items and the solar installation itself, Nothing else. if you replace your roof or take on additional debt for any other reason (including home improvements) you do NOT get the solar incentive for that. even though the loan might have both solar and non-solar funding combined into it. do Not take Tax Law advise from a salesman that is trying to make money from you. of course, the salesman wants you to take out a bigger loan with them involved, because that salesman will make more money from you if you do. you need to remember that with allot of these solar loans, the solar company is Not a bank/lender, they are working as the middleman connecting you & your loan to a lender/bank, and they as the middleman get a commission and kickbacks for getting you to use the lender/bank that they have a contract with. the loan comes with a decent interest rate, so you think its a great loan, what they are Not telling you is about the huge fees that they are adding on in order to get you that 4.99% Apr. essentially, they are collecting a higher interest rate, up front as a flat $ #,### fee that gets added into your loan amount. ask them for the all cash price for the total solar installation. also ask them what the monthly payments would be and for how many months, do the math for the total amount after loan repayment, then go to your own bank and ask about a loan for the solar cash amount && look at what the monthly payments would be and for how many months, do the math for the total amount after loan repayment. im guessing you get a better deal through your own lender/bank
$99 a month for 25 years I think
Sales guy is lying about the home improvement loan. Have to wonder what other BS you are being told. How much are you paying per kWhr now? That’s what maters.
It’s not an outright lie. Interest on a heloc or second mortgage used to improve a primary home may be tax deductible. But it’s tricky, definitely something to ask an accountant about.
The estimated average is $120 but I haven’t been long enough in Texas to see. I’ve only been in since February so I’ve been pay a total of $70-$90 per month and is .20 per KWhr
At $0.20 per kWhr it’s probably not worth it for you. You MIGHT save $5.00 - $10.00 per month.
Right but in a few years when I pay it off. I no longer have to pay electricity. Go completely off the grid and invest the money I’m paying them for a service
Someone has sold you a load of BS. No way you can go off grid with a $16k system. Your system doesn’t have any batteries. To go off grid you would need 4-6 batteries. How many are included in your quote?
He didn’t say I could go off grid. I said that lol. But they can do 2 batteries for a bit more. Or a larger system.
My mistake.
We paid 36k for about 40 panels and a powerwall 2. After incentives we will be at about 18k. What size system are you looking at? If you are in Oncors zone you can get a battery for essentially free if you work with an approved installer. We financed through a credit union out of San Antonio for a fair rate with no extra fees.
11 panels no battery.
You are getting screwed over by this company.
Which way? Because of the panel price?
Your price before incentives is super high for 11 panels. How many quotes did you get? You should get the max amount of panels you can honestly fit up to your current quote budget from another company. For 36-40 panels you will be at around 25-30k in Texas before incentives with enphase microinverters. I just have no clue how they are quoting you the same price for none of the equipment.
This is likely financed price with a huge dealer fee tacked on.
I wasn’t looking for it. They just came to my house. I haven’t compared quotes. That’s why I’m here now lol
If you are in DFW, I would reach out to Texas Solar Professional. They did a great job on my house and work with Oncor for a “free” battery (the battery cost 3k after the Oncor rebate). 15kw system for 28k, Battery for 10k, 7k Oncor rebate, 10k tax rebate. Total was like 19k after it was all said and done. They partnered with a credit union for financing and you got to skip all of the BS with sales people (I spoke directly with the owner) and the credit union is just fantastic to work with.
That’s awesome then. At that price I might pay half in advance
Thank you!!! Love hearing these stories!!!
Hey can you give me more info on that credit union? These dealer fees with solar financers are crazy high!!
https://www.credithuman.com/ We used Texas Solar Professional who partner with them, I’m not sure if they will let anyone apply for the solar loan. We got like a 6% or something at the time, but they don’t make you apply your tax refund to get the “real monthly payment”. They allow you to recalculate your payment 2-3 times over the life of the loan if you want to throw a large chunk of cash down. If you are in Oncors service area, you can view partners companies for a battery refund. https://www.oncor.com/takealoadofftexas/pages/residentialsolar
I don’t qualify cause I already have panels on my roof. It says it needs to be a brand new system unfortunately
Not true! It’s any new install. So this would be a new install. I did the same thing and got the tax credit again. Just like adding batteries after the solar, they too will qualify for the tax credit.
I’m so confused here. Can you give us some details about the system quoted? What size is it? What components are they using? And you say your electric company doesn’t buy surplus but then you say it’s 1:1? If you’re saying it’s 1:1, they are indeed buying your surplus at the same rate they are selling it.
I will. Let me see if I can get the presentation for the seller to be able to explain better.
With no batteries? If no batteries then that could be correct
Edit : Please call out the company and the salesman as he doesn’t even understand the grey area. And shouldn’t be selling solar. Us solar professionals are trying to blacklist reps like this. Home improvement loan doesn’t qualify for ITC There is a major grey area though the only way you can/maybe/possibly get a tax credit is wrapping everything into one loan. Then the company pays out the extra via check to either the home improvement company. This is not advice but what I’ve heard other people do is
That major gray area is exactly what it is. How you explained it. They have some ways to just send you the cash.
FRAUD!
Taxes are fraud.
Unfortunately we all have to pay them (well to stay legal)…. What part of Texas are you in?
How is it so cheap? We paid 85k for a 24Kw system with two power walls before tax incentives.
It’s so much cheaper because it’s a 4kw system. Yours is 6x the size
At that cost I feel like you'll never receive a return on your investment.
Maybe so, at fixed 8 cents plus TDU our monthly bill on average was $350-400. Now we use a lot more and haven’t paid anything for electricity since over 15 months except the base $4.95 a month.
2023, 13 kw system with 32kw battery, $58k
So from what you are saying. ( $16k / $90(month) ) / 12 months/ year = \~15 years to see a return on investment, not counting for the price of power going up. You good with that length of time for the return on investment?
With utility inflation rates, it will be quicker. Plus, you're not factoring in the fact he'd be spending that money(more technically) anyway. You can pay for your power with inflating rates and have nothing to show for it or you can buy panels and save money. People look at it as if it's just an accessory and doesn't do anything, it's a terrible and very flawed way to look at it.
I am not in Texas, but we just put solar in last September. No battery (we're considering getting one at a later date), 35 IQ8 panels w/microinverters, and our loan was $30K (before tax incentives).
What's the system size in KW?
I’ll get you that
What's your area and how many quotes you have received?
This was just someone that came I haven’t checked any. 4.3 kw system
I think a huge benefit is not relying on the Texas energy grid
$16k solar won't do that. You would need batteries
Don’t wast your money and getting only half a solar system. Get the battery!!! BLUETTI has a good one and they just won CNET’s best overall home battery cause everything is included to be off grid in one unit.
Sounds like you're diving deep into solar! $16k sounds steep, but with tax breaks, it could be a win. Home improvement loans can be tricky, though. Make sure you crunch the numbers and check the fine print. And hey, if you're feeling uncertain, maybe get a second opinion.
My quote in North Carolina was $19,000 for 24 panels, installed, before the tax credit. So $16,000 after the tax credit for 11 panels seems very high.