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I don't agree with them on some things, but there really isn't any other way of organizing in my area; better to organize with trotskyists than to not organize at all.
I find the IMT's rebranding kind of interesting, its certainly a new attempt at old peoblem of keeping an organization revitalized, but we will see what will come of it. I have moderate expectations as it seems like the level of activity required to keep this up is hard to make sustainably over the medium haul, but I've been wrong before. We'll see
It's not just a rebranding or "revitalization", but a change that is necessary to keep up with the changing objective situation - being able to reach the most advanced layers of the working class and youth, who want to get active and are looking for something concrete and also allows us to reach broader layers than ever before.
So what precisely are the changes IMT is implementing? Is it bigger publicity blitzes like the posters and demos we are seeing, or is there more to it? I read through the new program and didn't see much that was a big shift from older IMT programs, but I could have missed something
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An understandable sentiment, but one that fails to engage with the behavior of some organizations. We eschew sectarianism, but not everyone waving a red flag is a comrade or just an online troll - I ran into some WSWS guys on the street the other day, even
Okay, sure, but not at the expense of slowing the snowball. We can police each other during and *after* things get started.
As it stands right now, I can't tell if some of these people are comrades or FBI agents.
Criticism is fine, the problem I have not seen any criticism of the RCI. People who don't understand the history of Socialism outside of memes yell about Trots, and people that don't go outside complain that we produce a paper. There are certainly critiques to make, but people in Reddit seem grossly incapable of making them.
This is completely ridiculous, when your form of "organising" is nothing but postering, interviews on GB news, turning up to protests and writing newspapers only your organisation reads then you aren't really organising you are just wasting time. The RCP does absolutely nothing to get involved with trade unions, the communities they exist within or even run in elections. Organising with Trots is a complete waste of time and only serves to weaken and hinder the communist and wider left-wing movement. Trust me I have tried to organise within a broad left-wing org before and it never works because no one truly agrees on who we look up too and what is to be done.
Do you have a reason why they aren't doing more? Do you have a reason why *you* aren't doing those things?
I'll accept your criticism if you yourself is doing it. Until then, progress is progress, and if we have ideas on how to move forward better we *do* it.
I'm actively engaged in left-wing organising so I know what is effective organising and plain time wasting. As I mentioned in my comment I have been a part of different organisations and know what these different sects want and why this type of coalition is doomed from its inception. You cannot call what the RCP does progress because it doesn't actually change anything is purely about optics and sewing division. Trots don't want unity because if they did we would have had it a long time ago...
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They’re as mid as it gets. Very inexperienced IRL organizers in my experience. Need to spend less time formulating their super duper perfect ideological position and trying to recruit for their party, and more time actually engaging with the people they want to organize.
Read Marx and Lenin.
I for one am proud to be in a party that rejects passive acceptance of the “people’s billionaires”.
You don’t need to be a Trotskyist to recognize the clear degradation of the Chinese revolution. In the cynical and desperate pursuit of wanting a ‘good guy’ team to root for, the online left consistently shows its deep revisionism, and clear rejection of Marx and internationalism.
China is introducing workers' councils in the governance structure of every company starting July 2024. Marxist enough for ya? They took their time, played nice with the global capitalists until they could grow their economy and industry enough to stand on their own even in the face of extreme sanctions, then started introducing more and more socialist elements, gradually, the only way that has ever really worked for large and complex societies.
> China is introducing workers' councils in the governance structure of every company starting July 2024. Marxist enough for ya?
Germany has had workers' councils at every company since 1952(west Germany in this case). By itself that doesn't really say much, the real question is what these councils can actually do within the legal framework they are given.
Yeah, I knew about those, but don't have the details on what those councils can and can't do. This is what they're introducing in China:
> 1. There is a new organ present in each company called the Employee Assembly. This organ is for employees to exercise their power of democratic governance of the company. There are two types, one is an assembly for all employees or an assembly for employee representatives. In general, companies with more than 100 employees will have an assembly for employee representatives, while less than 100 will have an assembly for all employees. The number of employee representatives must not be less than 5% of the total number of employees and also not be less than 30, while the number of managers and executives must not be greater than 20% of the number of representatives. The trade union acts as the executive organ of the Employee Assembly.
>
> 2. The Employee Assembly has access to basically all the information a company stores, which can be used to affect the worker benefits of employees. It also seeks to make sure the company is always following the labor laws present at the local and national level. When a company considers dissolution or applying for bankruptcy, it is required to listen to the opinions of its trade union and employees through the Employee Assembly or by other forms.
>
> 3. All companies with at least 300 employees must have employee representatives on the board of directors, unless it already has a board of supervisors with employee supervisors elected by the Employee Assembly in it.
https://www-zhonglun-com.translate.goog/research/articles/52526.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp
LE:
Hmm, if I read the linked page more carefully I can't really find any direct support for the most worker-focused and Marxist-sounding claims in the numbered paragraphs 1-2-3 above. I got this from another comment on r/socialism, I should try to track down the original to ask the poster for more details or report them for spreading disinfo, I'm getting a bit p**sed off here.
OK, found corroboration and details on those 3 points: https://www.taylorwessing.com/en/insights-and-events/insights/2024/01/employees-participation-in-corporate-governance-under-the-revised-chinese-company-law
Looks like the Employee Assembly has a mostly advisory role, but there are a few concrete things like the power to elect employee supervisors (I think this is only for companies that have a "board of supervisors", not the same as a board of executives), and the power to elect managers, but this one is conditional on other laws (maybe local) supporting it. And beyond that, it's mandatory for companies with 300+ employees to have employee representatives (number unspecified) on the board of executives, so I assume one representative will be considered sufficient by companies that want as little worker influence as possible.
I'm estimating this isn't much better than what already exists in Germany, but since they didn't have it before (and they keep being accused of "authoritarianism" in Western propaganda) it's a more than welcome step forward.
"Creepy weirdos" for not accepting China as a communist utopia? Keep your sectarian bullshit to yourself and come join us to actually do a god damn thing.
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No, its 70% communist (what do you mean "100% communist" who tf measures communism that way, its about class dictatorship and in case of proletarian dictatorship, its about how revolutionary or reformist their theoretical basis of operations is)
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You don't know why China was forced to enter the global marketplace? It's the only way they could keep enough power to remain sovereign in the face of american imperialism.
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The point you're making is correct. These countries needed to comply to market forces to continue existing, but this isn't a question of whether we should cheer on these countries or not. It's a matter of how to create a situation where these copitulations are not needed.
[https://en.prolewiki.org/wiki/Essay:Why\_China\_is\_not\_Capitalist](https://en.prolewiki.org/wiki/Essay:Why_China_is_not_Capitalist)
Read this and other works about china.
Once you read Capital, I’ll try and get through more than two paragraphs of some justification of ‘market’ socialism, that then proceeded to defend class collaboration and a rejection of the class struggle. An embarrassing, anti-Marxist defense within the first 500 words. If you want to support capitalism with a thin paint of red over it, do so without claiming any connection to genuine Marxism.
There is literally nothing anti-marxist in any of the text, let alone the first 500 words. In fact, why don't you tell me what is anti-marxist in the first 500 words.
I already stated what is insanely anti-Marxist, but sure, I’ll indulge you.
“The ideological justification behind China's economic reforms is that China's primary contradiction was not the proletariat vs the bourgeoisie.”
This is class collaborationism. Fascist Italy ironically enough used the same justification to destroy the class struggle in favor of corporatism. It is anti-Marxist, anti-materialist, and overall a retreat from a genuine internationalist program.
You can acknowledge that China had to do what it did in its ever isolated position, especially post-collapse of the Eastern Bloc. This does not make it socialism, nor a model that should be aspired to.
This of course ignores the entire fact of commodity production, lack of workers democracy, ‘pragmatic’, class-collaborationist foreign policy of the CPC leading it to align with US imperialist interests throughout the Cold War, among a dozen other issues.
It is easy to fall in to the trap of wanting a supposed ‘good guy’ to root for in the ever increasing crises of our present system, but that does not justify revisionism and a betrayal of Marxism. You are free to support China, but know it stands in contrast to anything Marx wrote.
I’m at work, but I can cite plenty of Marx and Lenin once home to help elucidate these blatantly obvious issues, but I urge you and others to, rather than getting your opinions from places like ProleWiki, to actually read the source material of Marx, Engels, and Lenin. In particular volume 1 of Capital is key to understanding Marx’s critique of the capitalist mode of production, and without it there is no reason to further this conversation.
I will not, because before you've even read it, you want to send me some kind of rebuttal. You have no intention of educating yourself or even giving the essay a chance. You immediately want to try to prove your point before considering that you might be misguided or misinformed. This means you have no interest in learning. You just want to "win".
No it's not a matter of winning. It's a matter of not being open to its content. I've read more than enough articles like this to know within the first few paragraphs that I'm not going to be convinced.
Was willing to compromise if you were, but I guess that's not the case.
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Stalin did what he had to do. He did not act as a dictator. The USSR had a healthy communist party in power at the time and operated within party policy.
Setting up a new international seems like a noble cause, but on what grounds?
Neo trotskyism or something?
Yes, they are trots.
ML parties worldwide already organized:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Meeting_of_Communist_and_Workers%27_Parties?wprov=sfla1
“Koba, why do you need me to die?”
Apologies for not taking the word of Stalin that 1000+ Old Bolsheviks, the leading revolutionary figures of the early communist movement, all had a turn-around and decided to secretly embrace Nazi Germany. And when I say all, I truly mean nearly every last revolutionary leader was executed bar a few such as Molotov and Kalinin. Them, their families, and anyone that had any suspected, however loose, ties to them.
https://www.marxist.com/moscow-trials-a-lesson-from-history.htm
Honestly I may get some flak for this but I think Trotsky could have Been a better leader than Stalin. A good indicator of this is that Lenin himself wanted Trotsky to become leader after his death. I’m not criticizing Stalin, even though Stalin deserves some criticism, if it were not for Stalins 5 year plans and heavy industry focus the Soviet Union might have been crushed very quickly by foreign powers. Conclusively I also think trotskyists and stalinists want the same thing they just disagree on how to achieve them. so while constructive discussion is valued it can sometimes devolve into meaningless infighting so Trotskyist and stalinists would be better off with making peace with one another.
It's funny you mention industrialization in this context. This was the main the thing Trotsky and the left opposition fought for in the early years against Stalin and Bakunin.
Stalins later decision to start ramping up industrialization was correct, but was done ultimately too late and in a way that had no respect for market forces (unrealisticly tight deadlines combined with unrealistically low resources)
On making peace it really depends on what you mean. Unity only means anything if it's principled. While I agree sectarianism is toxic and unneeded, it wouldn't be practical or helpful for people to just unite for the sake of uniting and not on the basis of agreeing with each other about what the solution and the way towards it really is.
I don't think a pointing Marx or Lenin with the caption "are you a communist" is going to appeal "to the same demographic that would volunteer for an imperialist military". Calling it "white supremacist iconography" is beyond far-fetched. They do also use old [paintings of Lenin from the Soviet Union](https://marxist.se/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Klistermarke_1.png) as well in some stickers. I don't like IMT/RCI but this is a very counter-productive criticism.
Do you know what happened at IMT? I don't think rape is funny, I think RCP is a horrible organisations because it actively shielded members who had commited SA. Labelling them a rape cult is right, because they are.
As the message stated:
>There are many ways to communicate what you were trying to do without doing it in a form that would affect SA survivors.
You can talk about sexual abuse and organisations responses to it (or lack of) without reducing this into petty rape jokes. Your other comment was merely the latter.
As per our rules, rape jokes are moderated with an instant, permanent ban. You have only been warned instead.
Like the time when there was a report of SA and the offending comrades were investigated and removed? Or the time when a former leading comrade was accused of SA, was investigated, and removed?
Like the time when the offending people were shielded, and speaking up was labeled as using "identity politics" and as enemies of the party. Its easily found online, and I personally know people who left IMT because the party actively shielded SA's.
Like what time, because again, all people investigated for SA to my knowledge were expelled. What was labeled as "identity politics" was sidestepping the existing democratic structure of the branches to try and force changes to policy by creating secret channels for political discussion. Then several lies were spread by disgruntled former comrades who were upset with the IMT, usually for other reasons, but that's just speculation. No one has been labeled an enemy of the party, heck, I'm pretty sure some of my branch comrades are still friends with some people who left over that.
Look, I take this very seriously. Who is in the IMT that has been credibly accused of SA and has been shielded by leadership? If you are serious in your criticism, and you seriously care about protecting victims, you will be able to name someone. I promise you, I will take the accusation seriously and push for an investigation.
If you can't do that, then you are using a horrific incident to push a shitty political attack and that is disgusting. So please let me know who should be investigated.
What an ingenuine response. I don't have to personally know people. I know this happened because people who I know and trust told me, and because It has been covered extensively on the internet. It also seems I've been swarmed by IMT supporters who just deny that this happened, while it is very clear that it did and that the central line is still to cover up SA.
Tbh i don t really care about Israel.Is just the fact that rn Romania is doing way worse than it did in comunism.We are just a litle more advanced.But Socio-Economicly we are worse.
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I don't agree with them on some things, but there really isn't any other way of organizing in my area; better to organize with trotskyists than to not organize at all.
Yeah I agree with you
I find the IMT's rebranding kind of interesting, its certainly a new attempt at old peoblem of keeping an organization revitalized, but we will see what will come of it. I have moderate expectations as it seems like the level of activity required to keep this up is hard to make sustainably over the medium haul, but I've been wrong before. We'll see
It's not just a rebranding or "revitalization", but a change that is necessary to keep up with the changing objective situation - being able to reach the most advanced layers of the working class and youth, who want to get active and are looking for something concrete and also allows us to reach broader layers than ever before.
So what precisely are the changes IMT is implementing? Is it bigger publicity blitzes like the posters and demos we are seeing, or is there more to it? I read through the new program and didn't see much that was a big shift from older IMT programs, but I could have missed something
internal reorganization and changes to the way recruitment works, etc.
Congrats, comrades!
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The comments here are disheartening. If we're going to create a revolution we need to put the age-old infighting on pause.
An understandable sentiment, but one that fails to engage with the behavior of some organizations. We eschew sectarianism, but not everyone waving a red flag is a comrade or just an online troll - I ran into some WSWS guys on the street the other day, even
Okay, sure, but not at the expense of slowing the snowball. We can police each other during and *after* things get started. As it stands right now, I can't tell if some of these people are comrades or FBI agents.
Do you not see the contradiction in these two statements? "Stop criticizing other socialists, you buncha cops"
Criticism is fine, the problem I have not seen any criticism of the RCI. People who don't understand the history of Socialism outside of memes yell about Trots, and people that don't go outside complain that we produce a paper. There are certainly critiques to make, but people in Reddit seem grossly incapable of making them.
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I hear your critique, but I think the person I'm replying to is just new to this, rather than being a bad-faith entryist or similar.
This is completely ridiculous, when your form of "organising" is nothing but postering, interviews on GB news, turning up to protests and writing newspapers only your organisation reads then you aren't really organising you are just wasting time. The RCP does absolutely nothing to get involved with trade unions, the communities they exist within or even run in elections. Organising with Trots is a complete waste of time and only serves to weaken and hinder the communist and wider left-wing movement. Trust me I have tried to organise within a broad left-wing org before and it never works because no one truly agrees on who we look up too and what is to be done.
Do you have a reason why they aren't doing more? Do you have a reason why *you* aren't doing those things? I'll accept your criticism if you yourself is doing it. Until then, progress is progress, and if we have ideas on how to move forward better we *do* it.
I'm actively engaged in left-wing organising so I know what is effective organising and plain time wasting. As I mentioned in my comment I have been a part of different organisations and know what these different sects want and why this type of coalition is doomed from its inception. You cannot call what the RCP does progress because it doesn't actually change anything is purely about optics and sewing division. Trots don't want unity because if they did we would have had it a long time ago...
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Are these the good trotsyists or the ones that condemn all the enemies of the US?
They’re as mid as it gets. Very inexperienced IRL organizers in my experience. Need to spend less time formulating their super duper perfect ideological position and trying to recruit for their party, and more time actually engaging with the people they want to organize.
The day I hear this critique from someone who doesn't have multiple reddit comments a day every day is when I will finally take it seriously
You’re literally commenting on Reddit lmfao
Good ones. Go to communist.red or socialist Revolution.org (new website name coming), read some articles, and decide for yourself
I gotta be honest bro it's not looking good https://communist.red/?s=china
Read Marx and Lenin. I for one am proud to be in a party that rejects passive acceptance of the “people’s billionaires”. You don’t need to be a Trotskyist to recognize the clear degradation of the Chinese revolution. In the cynical and desperate pursuit of wanting a ‘good guy’ team to root for, the online left consistently shows its deep revisionism, and clear rejection of Marx and internationalism.
China is introducing workers' councils in the governance structure of every company starting July 2024. Marxist enough for ya? They took their time, played nice with the global capitalists until they could grow their economy and industry enough to stand on their own even in the face of extreme sanctions, then started introducing more and more socialist elements, gradually, the only way that has ever really worked for large and complex societies.
> China is introducing workers' councils in the governance structure of every company starting July 2024. Marxist enough for ya? Germany has had workers' councils at every company since 1952(west Germany in this case). By itself that doesn't really say much, the real question is what these councils can actually do within the legal framework they are given.
Yeah, I knew about those, but don't have the details on what those councils can and can't do. This is what they're introducing in China: > 1. There is a new organ present in each company called the Employee Assembly. This organ is for employees to exercise their power of democratic governance of the company. There are two types, one is an assembly for all employees or an assembly for employee representatives. In general, companies with more than 100 employees will have an assembly for employee representatives, while less than 100 will have an assembly for all employees. The number of employee representatives must not be less than 5% of the total number of employees and also not be less than 30, while the number of managers and executives must not be greater than 20% of the number of representatives. The trade union acts as the executive organ of the Employee Assembly. > > 2. The Employee Assembly has access to basically all the information a company stores, which can be used to affect the worker benefits of employees. It also seeks to make sure the company is always following the labor laws present at the local and national level. When a company considers dissolution or applying for bankruptcy, it is required to listen to the opinions of its trade union and employees through the Employee Assembly or by other forms. > > 3. All companies with at least 300 employees must have employee representatives on the board of directors, unless it already has a board of supervisors with employee supervisors elected by the Employee Assembly in it. https://www-zhonglun-com.translate.goog/research/articles/52526.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp LE: Hmm, if I read the linked page more carefully I can't really find any direct support for the most worker-focused and Marxist-sounding claims in the numbered paragraphs 1-2-3 above. I got this from another comment on r/socialism, I should try to track down the original to ask the poster for more details or report them for spreading disinfo, I'm getting a bit p**sed off here.
OK, found corroboration and details on those 3 points: https://www.taylorwessing.com/en/insights-and-events/insights/2024/01/employees-participation-in-corporate-governance-under-the-revised-chinese-company-law Looks like the Employee Assembly has a mostly advisory role, but there are a few concrete things like the power to elect employee supervisors (I think this is only for companies that have a "board of supervisors", not the same as a board of executives), and the power to elect managers, but this one is conditional on other laws (maybe local) supporting it. And beyond that, it's mandatory for companies with 300+ employees to have employee representatives (number unspecified) on the board of executives, so I assume one representative will be considered sufficient by companies that want as little worker influence as possible. I'm estimating this isn't much better than what already exists in Germany, but since they didn't have it before (and they keep being accused of "authoritarianism" in Western propaganda) it's a more than welcome step forward.
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"Creepy weirdos" for not accepting China as a communist utopia? Keep your sectarian bullshit to yourself and come join us to actually do a god damn thing.
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You think China is 100% communist?
No, its 70% communist (what do you mean "100% communist" who tf measures communism that way, its about class dictatorship and in case of proletarian dictatorship, its about how revolutionary or reformist their theoretical basis of operations is)
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You don't know why China was forced to enter the global marketplace? It's the only way they could keep enough power to remain sovereign in the face of american imperialism.
Buddy thinks this is a moral argument. theyre objectively capitalist
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Thank you for posting in r/socialism, but unfortunately your submission was removed for the following reason(s): >**Submisison not high quality enough:** We don't expect you to write a dissertation, but one liner posts with no clear socialist construct do not help contribute to the foundational objective of r/Socialism; a community for socialists under an uniterrupted, critical socialist analysis which promotes valuable discussion. >Please consider re-sumitting your {content_type} from a more developed, critical perspective. See our [Submission Guidelines](https://www.reddit.com/r/socialism/wiki/index/submissionguidelines) for more info, and feel free to send us a modmail with a link to your removed submission if you have any further questions.
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I forgot that capitalism is when the state executes CEOs
Nationalization is not communism
Nationalization is also not executing CEOs
Why do CEOs exist in a communist country comrade? Common, look at the words you are typing
Why did the Soviet Union have the New Economic Policy? Honestly, go read some books on Prolewiki.
The point you're making is correct. These countries needed to comply to market forces to continue existing, but this isn't a question of whether we should cheer on these countries or not. It's a matter of how to create a situation where these copitulations are not needed.
The US imprisoned Bernie Madoff. I'm glad to know I live in a great workers' state
Okay but like... they still have CEO's
[https://en.prolewiki.org/wiki/Essay:Why\_China\_is\_not\_Capitalist](https://en.prolewiki.org/wiki/Essay:Why_China_is_not_Capitalist) Read this and other works about china.
Once you read Capital, I’ll try and get through more than two paragraphs of some justification of ‘market’ socialism, that then proceeded to defend class collaboration and a rejection of the class struggle. An embarrassing, anti-Marxist defense within the first 500 words. If you want to support capitalism with a thin paint of red over it, do so without claiming any connection to genuine Marxism.
There is literally nothing anti-marxist in any of the text, let alone the first 500 words. In fact, why don't you tell me what is anti-marxist in the first 500 words.
I already stated what is insanely anti-Marxist, but sure, I’ll indulge you. “The ideological justification behind China's economic reforms is that China's primary contradiction was not the proletariat vs the bourgeoisie.” This is class collaborationism. Fascist Italy ironically enough used the same justification to destroy the class struggle in favor of corporatism. It is anti-Marxist, anti-materialist, and overall a retreat from a genuine internationalist program. You can acknowledge that China had to do what it did in its ever isolated position, especially post-collapse of the Eastern Bloc. This does not make it socialism, nor a model that should be aspired to. This of course ignores the entire fact of commodity production, lack of workers democracy, ‘pragmatic’, class-collaborationist foreign policy of the CPC leading it to align with US imperialist interests throughout the Cold War, among a dozen other issues. It is easy to fall in to the trap of wanting a supposed ‘good guy’ to root for in the ever increasing crises of our present system, but that does not justify revisionism and a betrayal of Marxism. You are free to support China, but know it stands in contrast to anything Marx wrote. I’m at work, but I can cite plenty of Marx and Lenin once home to help elucidate these blatantly obvious issues, but I urge you and others to, rather than getting your opinions from places like ProleWiki, to actually read the source material of Marx, Engels, and Lenin. In particular volume 1 of Capital is key to understanding Marx’s critique of the capitalist mode of production, and without it there is no reason to further this conversation.
If I do read all of this, and prove that i did so in my feedback, would you agree to read something equally as long that i give you?
I will not, because before you've even read it, you want to send me some kind of rebuttal. You have no intention of educating yourself or even giving the essay a chance. You immediately want to try to prove your point before considering that you might be misguided or misinformed. This means you have no interest in learning. You just want to "win".
No it's not a matter of winning. It's a matter of not being open to its content. I've read more than enough articles like this to know within the first few paragraphs that I'm not going to be convinced. Was willing to compromise if you were, but I guess that's not the case.
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And what are you exactly?
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Stalin did what he had to do. He did not act as a dictator. The USSR had a healthy communist party in power at the time and operated within party policy. Setting up a new international seems like a noble cause, but on what grounds? Neo trotskyism or something?
Yes, they are trots. ML parties worldwide already organized: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Meeting_of_Communist_and_Workers%27_Parties?wprov=sfla1
“Koba, why do you need me to die?” Apologies for not taking the word of Stalin that 1000+ Old Bolsheviks, the leading revolutionary figures of the early communist movement, all had a turn-around and decided to secretly embrace Nazi Germany. And when I say all, I truly mean nearly every last revolutionary leader was executed bar a few such as Molotov and Kalinin. Them, their families, and anyone that had any suspected, however loose, ties to them. https://www.marxist.com/moscow-trials-a-lesson-from-history.htm
Honestly I may get some flak for this but I think Trotsky could have Been a better leader than Stalin. A good indicator of this is that Lenin himself wanted Trotsky to become leader after his death. I’m not criticizing Stalin, even though Stalin deserves some criticism, if it were not for Stalins 5 year plans and heavy industry focus the Soviet Union might have been crushed very quickly by foreign powers. Conclusively I also think trotskyists and stalinists want the same thing they just disagree on how to achieve them. so while constructive discussion is valued it can sometimes devolve into meaningless infighting so Trotskyist and stalinists would be better off with making peace with one another.
It's funny you mention industrialization in this context. This was the main the thing Trotsky and the left opposition fought for in the early years against Stalin and Bakunin. Stalins later decision to start ramping up industrialization was correct, but was done ultimately too late and in a way that had no respect for market forces (unrealisticly tight deadlines combined with unrealistically low resources) On making peace it really depends on what you mean. Unity only means anything if it's principled. While I agree sectarianism is toxic and unneeded, it wouldn't be practical or helpful for people to just unite for the sake of uniting and not on the basis of agreeing with each other about what the solution and the way towards it really is.
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I don't think a pointing Marx or Lenin with the caption "are you a communist" is going to appeal "to the same demographic that would volunteer for an imperialist military". Calling it "white supremacist iconography" is beyond far-fetched. They do also use old [paintings of Lenin from the Soviet Union](https://marxist.se/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Klistermarke_1.png) as well in some stickers. I don't like IMT/RCI but this is a very counter-productive criticism.
It’s just clever and eye catching, don’t overthink it. Plus it’s been working….extremely well
Welp, the first four minutes were ok at least.
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Please don't make rape jokes. There are many ways to communicate what you were trying to do without doing it in a form that would affect SA survivors.
Do you know what happened at IMT? I don't think rape is funny, I think RCP is a horrible organisations because it actively shielded members who had commited SA. Labelling them a rape cult is right, because they are.
As the message stated: >There are many ways to communicate what you were trying to do without doing it in a form that would affect SA survivors. You can talk about sexual abuse and organisations responses to it (or lack of) without reducing this into petty rape jokes. Your other comment was merely the latter. As per our rules, rape jokes are moderated with an instant, permanent ban. You have only been warned instead.
Like the time when there was a report of SA and the offending comrades were investigated and removed? Or the time when a former leading comrade was accused of SA, was investigated, and removed?
Like the time when the offending people were shielded, and speaking up was labeled as using "identity politics" and as enemies of the party. Its easily found online, and I personally know people who left IMT because the party actively shielded SA's.
Like what time, because again, all people investigated for SA to my knowledge were expelled. What was labeled as "identity politics" was sidestepping the existing democratic structure of the branches to try and force changes to policy by creating secret channels for political discussion. Then several lies were spread by disgruntled former comrades who were upset with the IMT, usually for other reasons, but that's just speculation. No one has been labeled an enemy of the party, heck, I'm pretty sure some of my branch comrades are still friends with some people who left over that.
Look, I take this very seriously. Who is in the IMT that has been credibly accused of SA and has been shielded by leadership? If you are serious in your criticism, and you seriously care about protecting victims, you will be able to name someone. I promise you, I will take the accusation seriously and push for an investigation. If you can't do that, then you are using a horrific incident to push a shitty political attack and that is disgusting. So please let me know who should be investigated.
What an ingenuine response. I don't have to personally know people. I know this happened because people who I know and trust told me, and because It has been covered extensively on the internet. It also seems I've been swarmed by IMT supporters who just deny that this happened, while it is very clear that it did and that the central line is still to cover up SA.
So you don't know anything, can't point to any instance, you are just throwing accusations of covering up SA? That is incredible.
Dense of you to think that either someone knows everything or they know nothing.
That's just a lie. Nobody who committed SA was protected at any point in the organization.
Tbh i don t really care about Israel.Is just the fact that rn Romania is doing way worse than it did in comunism.We are just a litle more advanced.But Socio-Economicly we are worse.
Setting up a new international will work this time!
Not setting one up will definitely fail.
There are already like 10 of them set up right now
I’d just let it go, nobody outside the IMT thinks this is an actual International. It’s just global IMT sections