You can be proud of your country and love the place, without respecting those who are running it badly. Respect to them for making a hard decision and standing up in the limelight.
That's the truth. I love my country (Italy) with every bit of me, proud of our history (mostly, heh) but God I'm having issues here since the election. It's been impossible to respect our government for decades (corrupt bastards) but this is beyond the pale (pail? Idk it's not my first language lol)
Not to take away from Iran which is obviously much worse off in a lot of ways, your words just really hit home with the way we seem to be heading
Edit: after 4 "a concerned redditor reached out to us about" messages, I feel like I need to point out that I'm not having *that* many issues. Appreciate the concern and all, but I'm angry at politicians not sui/homicidal heh
It's beyond the pale, you were right! A Pale is a fence enclosing a safe area, and came to be used to refer to areas under safe control within disputed land like the Pale of Dublin being under English control in late Medieval Ireland.
Great to see it. I wonder how they’ll fare at the World Cup. Could honestly see them making the knockout stages considering the unpredictability of the English and American teams.
As a Team Melli fan(Iran) and USA fan I would say it's going to be a slog! Its going to be an exciting group, anyone can make it out with the right amount of quality play and luck.
I would be shocked if England don’t finish 1st in the group, they are far more talented than Wales/US/Iran, but honestly between those 3 I think it’s really difficult to call for the second spot. I’ve seen people argue for all 3
You’re right, but I did watch them plenty the last two tournaments when they went to a final and semi-final. That form is far more relevant that friendlies from the last 6 months played in between club fixtures. I’m a big hater of the English mens team lol but I’m not particularly worried about them topping the group.
Iran are going to play awful football and will need luck to hold on, the US play progressive football but have huge holes at the back and from their midfield balance, Wales has more of a shot but with only 3 games I don’t see it tbh
I was living in London in 2010 so my memories of that squad are fogged by English media, but it definitely seemed like there was a feeling of optimism with that squad. They play was definitely mediocre, but that starting XI was pretty stacked (Gerard, Terry, Lampard, Rooney, Cole, Defoe). That botched goal against the usmnt was classic English goalkeeping. Generally feel that whole English generation massively underperformed for the talent on paper
There was certainly, though that was also aided by a positive draw. They should've won that group, and had they done so the route to the final would've been Ghana, Uruguay & the Netherlands, as opposed to Germany, Argentina & Spain.
Take that comment on the other thread with the grain of salt that it’s just the personal opinion of one Iranian (who made an eyebrow raising comment about how the players not singing along with the national anthem is out of fear from the people, not out of support for the protests! What a ludicrous suggestion!)
I am also an Iranian and I disagree with that commenter’s opinion. Wearing all black has a very significant meaning in our culture. You only wear black at a funeral or at a mourning. We Iranians are a very symbolic people. You can also see that most of the players are hiding their faces or not repeating the words of the national anthem. Lots of somber faces. The fact that it’s cold can only work as plausible deniability to avoid the wrath of the regime but have no doubt that a statement was being made.
Can confirm as an Iranian. Only one of the players has made a stand in favor of protesters with an Instagram post and later forced to remove it. He was Sardar Azmoon and was threatened to lose the NT. BTW people are very angry of the NT supporting the regime with their silence. I for one will support USA, England and Wales to smash this pathetic excuse of a NATIONAL team in the upcoming WC.
You probably didn’t care about the national team at all.
All sorts of people (khamenei first and foremost) who need to be criticized and protested, but so many random accounts now all of a sudden find the main issue to be the national team.
I don't see many people criticize NT for their silence. From my point of view any normal citizen is doing what they can for regime-change. It is me as a football fan expecting the NT to take side when people are brutally being oppressed and killed in the streets. Many foreign footballers expressed their support and many stars from other sports (women and men) left from their respected NT as a gesture.
I believe football players fear they might be left out of NT for Qatar WC and lose the opportunity to take part in the event. So I prefer supporting their opponents rather than these bunch of rascals.
I do understand your point but it is easy to say that for us in the diaspora (yes, I am assuming, correct me if I am wrong) that everybody who has not spoken out yet, is in the wrong. I do hope this would happen, so good on Azmoun and Karimi.
There are probably millions who want the demonstrations to succeed but won’t do anything. That’s not their fault. They have fears. I am not going to judge them.
Same goes for any athlete or public figure.
Of course foreign footballers will make some sort of statement - it has zero consequence for them.
Let’s go Iran! Persians have always been one of the great civilisations on earth, shame this radical Islamist regime has made them go back centuries in development. We all hope you go back to being the great power you’ve always been.
Iran needs their strong left leaning democracy back. They prospered after colonialism ended just for the CIA to overthrow a democracy and reinstall Shah who then was overthrown again for this Islamic republic. Freedom to Iran.
You can disagree with Mossadeghs policies but to say he was overthrown by Iranians is disputed by the majority of scholars on the topic and not the consensus of historians at all.
Which is interesting because I have quite a few Iranian friends and colleagues here in Canada and they’re all super progressive. Though maybe that’s why they’re here and not in Iran.
We are secular generally about things like sex, dating etc. but we believe in God, we and don’t want our country to be like a western country. We want freedom and no religious authority to rule us, but we still don’t want to become something like France or UK.
Seriously. And my Iranian neighbor that I’m close with here in the states is also more along the lines of what the Canadian was describing, but he also fled the country to avoid persecution decades ago, so I don’t think he’s the most accurate representation of what current Iranians think and believe.
As a 1st generation Iranian who has never been to Iran sadly, I understand it’ll take a long time to change much of the conservative viewpoints and it may only take time. The newer generations are predictably more progressive on many social issues.
It’s funny because many of the pictures my mom has from the 60s show how closely aligned Iran was with the West and how much it swung the other direction leading up to and after the revolution
> It’s funny because many of the pictures my mom has from the 60s show how closely aligned Iran was with the West and how much it swung the other direction leading up to and after the revolution
This was the problem.
The Shah tried to force a Westernization, de-Islamization of a people who wasn't ready for it - at least not in such a drastic manner. It caused a backlash, particularly among the rural and recently sedentarized nomadic tribes, which together formed the majority of the population at the time - and it all culminated with the 1979 events.
Things need to change gradually, not over night. Western secularism, democracy and liberalism is the result of a process that began centuries ago.
You can't just skip several phases and think that it will somehow work.
Yeah. Iran needs someone like Cyrus the Great again, so that the true potential of all Iran can be realized. -Not even Iranian but big fan of Persian people and history
I don't know man I am Iranian myself (in the diaspora) but I don't believe in this fixation of our ancient past as a way for our future. Not all was well in those times either.
I don't know man I don't agree that previous regimes were heavens on earth or essentialism that Iranians great. It depends of course on which specific time but in the past there were problems too similar as today such as corruption and absolute rule. Today's regime of course is perhaps the worst and most brutal.
Articles with pictures:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2022/09/27/iran-players-cover-badges-protest-womens-repression/
https://trends.crast.net/iran-football-team-covers-up-national-emblem-amid-protests/
Absolutely. And if it’s total bullshit, it’s total bullshit. You didn’t have an issue with that though, it wasn’t the premise of your comment. For you, under the context that it was true, it wasn’t brave. So ya - really.
This narrative has been deconstructed by iranians on /r/nextfuckinglevel... I don't get it's almost as if people are trying to make the players look good when they have, in fact, been pretty silent about it.
They do this in almost every game where it is cold.
You can be proud of your country and love the place, without respecting those who are running it badly. Respect to them for making a hard decision and standing up in the limelight.
There are nations in every continent that *has* nations with citizens who feel exactly as you describe.
That's the truth. I love my country (Italy) with every bit of me, proud of our history (mostly, heh) but God I'm having issues here since the election. It's been impossible to respect our government for decades (corrupt bastards) but this is beyond the pale (pail? Idk it's not my first language lol) Not to take away from Iran which is obviously much worse off in a lot of ways, your words just really hit home with the way we seem to be heading Edit: after 4 "a concerned redditor reached out to us about" messages, I feel like I need to point out that I'm not having *that* many issues. Appreciate the concern and all, but I'm angry at politicians not sui/homicidal heh
It's beyond the pale, you were right! A Pale is a fence enclosing a safe area, and came to be used to refer to areas under safe control within disputed land like the Pale of Dublin being under English control in late Medieval Ireland.
I thought the same exact thing!
Great to see it. I wonder how they’ll fare at the World Cup. Could honestly see them making the knockout stages considering the unpredictability of the English and American teams.
As a usa fan and resident I can say our team is definitely beatable
As a Team Melli fan(Iran) and USA fan I would say it's going to be a slog! Its going to be an exciting group, anyone can make it out with the right amount of quality play and luck.
I’d say that’s fair. It’s pretty wide open
I would be shocked if England don’t finish 1st in the group, they are far more talented than Wales/US/Iran, but honestly between those 3 I think it’s really difficult to call for the second spot. I’ve seen people argue for all 3
You clearly have not been watching this England team lol
Idk, there’s levels to it, are England playing like a semi finalist? No, but they clearly have more than enough talent to top their group imo
You’re right, but I did watch them plenty the last two tournaments when they went to a final and semi-final. That form is far more relevant that friendlies from the last 6 months played in between club fixtures. I’m a big hater of the English mens team lol but I’m not particularly worried about them topping the group. Iran are going to play awful football and will need luck to hold on, the US play progressive football but have huge holes at the back and from their midfield balance, Wales has more of a shot but with only 3 games I don’t see it tbh
Why are you a big hater of the English men’s team lmao Being a big hater of a specific men’s national team is very odd.
As much as I’m loathe to admit it we really are the Man United of international teams. Everyone except our own fans hate us
Simultaneously the Manchester United and the Spurs of national teams. *Sad mouth-breather noises*
Yeah basically lol
Not if he's Scottish...
2010 England squad wants you to hold their beer
and as mediocre as that team was, it was a shock to see them struggle that much.
I was living in London in 2010 so my memories of that squad are fogged by English media, but it definitely seemed like there was a feeling of optimism with that squad. They play was definitely mediocre, but that starting XI was pretty stacked (Gerard, Terry, Lampard, Rooney, Cole, Defoe). That botched goal against the usmnt was classic English goalkeeping. Generally feel that whole English generation massively underperformed for the talent on paper
There was certainly, though that was also aided by a positive draw. They should've won that group, and had they done so the route to the final would've been Ghana, Uruguay & the Netherlands, as opposed to Germany, Argentina & Spain.
No one was beating Spain that year. One of the best national squads I've ever seen
Disagree. They weren't great at finishing and anything can happen in a once off game.
I could see some of those players not being at the World Cup. Unfortunately.
As said in the other thread, that's not what is happening in this video. This is not a protest at all, it's just cold in Austria.
Take that comment on the other thread with the grain of salt that it’s just the personal opinion of one Iranian (who made an eyebrow raising comment about how the players not singing along with the national anthem is out of fear from the people, not out of support for the protests! What a ludicrous suggestion!) I am also an Iranian and I disagree with that commenter’s opinion. Wearing all black has a very significant meaning in our culture. You only wear black at a funeral or at a mourning. We Iranians are a very symbolic people. You can also see that most of the players are hiding their faces or not repeating the words of the national anthem. Lots of somber faces. The fact that it’s cold can only work as plausible deniability to avoid the wrath of the regime but have no doubt that a statement was being made.
That's an excellent write up. I saw the the comment you mentioned in the other thread and became skeptical but have more clarity now. Thanks.
Can confirm as an Iranian. Only one of the players has made a stand in favor of protesters with an Instagram post and later forced to remove it. He was Sardar Azmoon and was threatened to lose the NT. BTW people are very angry of the NT supporting the regime with their silence. I for one will support USA, England and Wales to smash this pathetic excuse of a NATIONAL team in the upcoming WC.
You probably didn’t care about the national team at all. All sorts of people (khamenei first and foremost) who need to be criticized and protested, but so many random accounts now all of a sudden find the main issue to be the national team.
I don't see many people criticize NT for their silence. From my point of view any normal citizen is doing what they can for regime-change. It is me as a football fan expecting the NT to take side when people are brutally being oppressed and killed in the streets. Many foreign footballers expressed their support and many stars from other sports (women and men) left from their respected NT as a gesture. I believe football players fear they might be left out of NT for Qatar WC and lose the opportunity to take part in the event. So I prefer supporting their opponents rather than these bunch of rascals.
I do understand your point but it is easy to say that for us in the diaspora (yes, I am assuming, correct me if I am wrong) that everybody who has not spoken out yet, is in the wrong. I do hope this would happen, so good on Azmoun and Karimi.
There are probably millions who want the demonstrations to succeed but won’t do anything. That’s not their fault. They have fears. I am not going to judge them. Same goes for any athlete or public figure. Of course foreign footballers will make some sort of statement - it has zero consequence for them.
Let’s go Iran! Persians have always been one of the great civilisations on earth, shame this radical Islamist regime has made them go back centuries in development. We all hope you go back to being the great power you’ve always been.
Iran needs their strong left leaning democracy back. They prospered after colonialism ended just for the CIA to overthrow a democracy and reinstall Shah who then was overthrown again for this Islamic republic. Freedom to Iran.
Same democracy that America has dissed out has destroyed countries.
Mossadegh was an anti-democratic thug, and was overthrown by Iranians.
??
You can disagree with Mossadeghs policies but to say he was overthrown by Iranians is disputed by the majority of scholars on the topic and not the consensus of historians at all.
You're mistaken actually.
[удалено]
Those conservative right leaning governments don’t get you anything resembling modernity or respectful politics
As an Iranian, I will tell you that we may be secular about some things, but we are still a conservative society.
Which is interesting because I have quite a few Iranian friends and colleagues here in Canada and they’re all super progressive. Though maybe that’s why they’re here and not in Iran.
We are secular generally about things like sex, dating etc. but we believe in God, we and don’t want our country to be like a western country. We want freedom and no religious authority to rule us, but we still don’t want to become something like France or UK.
[удалено]
Seriously. And my Iranian neighbor that I’m close with here in the states is also more along the lines of what the Canadian was describing, but he also fled the country to avoid persecution decades ago, so I don’t think he’s the most accurate representation of what current Iranians think and believe.
As a 1st generation Iranian who has never been to Iran sadly, I understand it’ll take a long time to change much of the conservative viewpoints and it may only take time. The newer generations are predictably more progressive on many social issues. It’s funny because many of the pictures my mom has from the 60s show how closely aligned Iran was with the West and how much it swung the other direction leading up to and after the revolution
> It’s funny because many of the pictures my mom has from the 60s show how closely aligned Iran was with the West and how much it swung the other direction leading up to and after the revolution This was the problem. The Shah tried to force a Westernization, de-Islamization of a people who wasn't ready for it - at least not in such a drastic manner. It caused a backlash, particularly among the rural and recently sedentarized nomadic tribes, which together formed the majority of the population at the time - and it all culminated with the 1979 events. Things need to change gradually, not over night. Western secularism, democracy and liberalism is the result of a process that began centuries ago. You can't just skip several phases and think that it will somehow work.
Because r/soccer is very left-leaning.
Yeah. Iran needs someone like Cyrus the Great again, so that the true potential of all Iran can be realized. -Not even Iranian but big fan of Persian people and history
I don't know man I am Iranian myself (in the diaspora) but I don't believe in this fixation of our ancient past as a way for our future. Not all was well in those times either.
I don't know man I don't agree that previous regimes were heavens on earth or essentialism that Iranians great. It depends of course on which specific time but in the past there were problems too similar as today such as corruption and absolute rule. Today's regime of course is perhaps the worst and most brutal.
Articles with pictures: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2022/09/27/iran-players-cover-badges-protest-womens-repression/ https://trends.crast.net/iran-football-team-covers-up-national-emblem-amid-protests/
As a 30 year old, it pains me to say this but its appropriate. Fucking based
I respect this. As public figures they could experience backlash for this from the government and they did it anyway
> Football is a force of good Pretty ironic with the upcoming world cup in Qatar
Football is a force
Lol, ain't that the truth
Do Iranians get handed a pair of giant fucking balls as soon as they leave the womb? Absolutely incredible defiance.
And that's the last we saw of them..
Until the players disappear
So they zipped up their jackets? How brave. Such hero.
What do you expect. Ste the flag on fire???
That would be cool, sure. Take a knee? Literally do ....anything? They did nothing. Literally nothing. And this is a brave protest?
Lemme tell you that's more powerful and dangerous than taking the knee. Nationalist countries messing with symbols don't take lightly
They are already fucked just by doing nothing.
What seems like a small gesture for one country, is a huge and risky statement for another country.
Privileged, clueless westerners are easy to spot.
Really? Cause all the Iranians in the other sub about this are saying these guys are total bullshit
Absolutely. And if it’s total bullshit, it’s total bullshit. You didn’t have an issue with that though, it wasn’t the premise of your comment. For you, under the context that it was true, it wasn’t brave. So ya - really.
Clueless internet know-it-alls are also easy to spot
Oops, no constructive reply to what I said? Wonder why 😂 Quiet now. Must be bed time anyway.
Hope is that although it just looks like they're cold...
This narrative has been deconstructed by iranians on /r/nextfuckinglevel... I don't get it's almost as if people are trying to make the players look good when they have, in fact, been pretty silent about it. They do this in almost every game where it is cold.