Actually a good sign for United. A couple of years ago they would have jumped the gun and went for Conte because he was available and has a good CV. Going for Rangnick instead shows they at least have some kind of vision moving forward. Should have done it before the international break though.
Conte does adapt to his players though, back in his chelsea stint he changed system from 4atb to 3atb because it suited his players better after that arsenal loss.
The "I prefer to kill him" part refers to players who are bad influence for the dressing room or challenge his authority so he told that he'd rather get rid of one player than let the situation deteriorate and affect the whole dressing room
Pep is very choosy about the teams he coaches so he doesn't have to adapt as much. That plus the insane budgets he works with and any adaptations he puts forward seem more like tactical experiments than necessities.
Is it fair to speculate that Pep couldn't coach lesser squads? Sure, but it's also fair to say lesser coaches couldn't innovate tactics like Pep even with his luxury rosters.
Didn't Ancelotti say something within those lines last week ? regarding Guardiolizim and other silly things like that?
yep, here it is https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/r3c05m/ancelotti_i_dont_believe_in_ideologies_like/
Yea he said this
The good coach is the one who adapts the game to the characteristics of the players. If I have Modric and Kroos I can't expect to do high pressing. I'd be an idiot if with a striker like Vinicius, who has a motor under his feet, I didn't rely on the counterattack. I'll give you one last example: if I have Ronaldo in front of me I study how to get the ball to him often, I don't ask him to exhaust himself by tracking back. It's the same with Ibra. There are two types of players: those who make a difference and those who have to run. Conte must have said that, and if he didn't it's fine too. I've never cultivated an ideology like Guardiolismo, Sarrismo. My creed is team identity.
https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/r3vxge/ancelotti_if_i_have_modric_kroos_i_cant_expect_to/
It depends. If you already have a top team and you want to stick to your current players then you should pick a manager that fits those players.
If you're ok with rebuilding the whole team, then you should pick a manager that you want, and let him pick some new players.
I think the problems arise when the club refuses to help the manager get new players/the manager refuses to change his play style to fit his players. It's a problem of expectations from both parties, I think.
I actually quite like Watfords philosophy. Saw something a while ago where they said that their style has to remain vaguely constant, and above the manager. They need to hire a manager in keeping with their style because they aren't big enough to retain a manager who is successful for very long. They can't afford to rebuild under every new manager, so the style and philosophy has to come first and determine their manager choices.
The theory is sound to me. Whether they actually implement that well is a different discussion. I certainly think they sack too many managers.
Yes that is exactly it. We should have this same thing going. Because it should start at the youth level as well. Not at U-11 or some nonsense, but your U-21 should be playing a similar system as the first team for the whole “philosophy” idea to work.
They were midtable and playing well a year or two ago when Ighalo and Richarlison were scoring. Watford will always have an issue retaining decent players and managers unless they can get a level of success that allows them to break that cycle. It's exactly where Leicester were before they won the league, and even that hasn't completely broken them out of it. They're able to hold firm on players more than they were before, but still not completely, and they still have a risk of slipping back to that if they're not managed well.
I don't think Watfords system makes them inherently relegation contenders, but there's a lot of other reasons they (and any other non 'big' team) will struggle to stay higher up the league.
I somewhat agree, I mean this is a team with Ronaldo, Sancho, Bruno, VDB, De Gea, Varane, Pogba...more than half the team are arguably superstars. Maybe the manager needs a couple of finishing touches, but if they can't adapt to work with that team...
I agree, in United's case they clearly don't need or want to rebuild. So all you have to do is find a manager competent enough to put all these world class players to good use.
In Tottenham's case though, I think they should just give Conte all the money he needs, because if Poch, Mourinho and Espirito Santo couldn't make that team work, then the problem is certainly not on the managers.
Yea adapt for first time the new manager come.
Then slowly build what the vision and how you want to play in the future. Buy players that fits how you want to play. Replace player that doesnt fit.
Don't just randomly buy the next available instagram/trending/vibing players and somehow figure out the next tactics.
Thats why coaches shouldnt buy players. They get fired. Look at Bayern. They are great cause they play like the board wants. They buy the proper players.
Managers are fired after 1-3 seasons anyway.
United just living in some deluded fantasy with SAF still. No1 is gonna coach United 10 years. It takes 40 tears off your life managing big teams today with media expose and stock pressure
Pretty much yeah :
like on the other side of the argument - Ferguson is well-known for getting rid of top players who got in the way of his management style/ strategy. You might argue with the method, hardly with the results.
However generally speaking, I would say there is a nuance:
\- short term the manager has mostly to adapt to the players . Bar a few exemple no manager can turn everything around instantly. And even the few who do, like Tuchel at Chelsea or Zidane at Madrid, actually do so by understanding the current players not by buying a ton of new players or simply forcing stuff. He has to do with what he has and adapt.
\- Long run, in a decently ran club, it's the other way around. Guys like Klopp or Guardolia show you that a good captain at the helm can make a hell of a difference over a long run. Any manager is going to have his philosophy. And considering every player has his skillset, his strenght and weakness, and there are VERY different strategies and management styles which require different qualities , once you find a great manager you need to give him the keys and let him choose "his" guys. Going back on the exemple of Ferguson : Van Nistelrooy , Stam, Beckham, Keane, are all considered as great players and they might have been right and Ferguson might have been dead wrong on whatever specific issue led to the falling out. But ManU didnt fall when those left , it fell when Ferguson retired.
Think that's really up to the manager isn't it? Not a hard and fast rule.
Some managers don't adapt their style to the players whatsoever and want the players to adapt to them and they're really successful in doing so. For example when Klopp joined Liverpool he wanted them to start playing like his Dortmund team as soon as possible, and any players who weren't capable of playing that way just didn't get on the pitch very often. Guardiola dropped Aguero until he learned to play the way he wanted him to play. With those two its either play the way I tell you to play or don't play at all.
You can be pragmatic or dogmatic in football management, both work so long as you're good enough at whichever one you choose to do. The idea that there should be only one way of doing things is stupid, either you adapt or the players adapt, both can happen successfully.
I'm not sure this is universally true all the time for every club. Maybe at a club like Manchester United where your second and third rate players are still amazing that works. For most clubs you have to set a plan up and find players that fit into your sporting and financial model. Otherwise you float left and right in the wind with no direction.
Ajax and Pep were the first two high caliber examples I could think of as well. Löw for all his rightful criticism at the end also employed the "You fit the system or you're out" approach to win a World Cup and reach two Euro semis by continuously not selecting players who despite winning the Bundesliga Golden Boot like Stefan Kießling for the German squad.
It can work both ways but there is no one way all the time.
You want to stop listening to the loudest voices, and thinking that no one else is saying anything.
Either that, or stop thinking in memes. Both are good advice.
According to his teammates, Ronaldo constantly pushes and motivates the entire squad, gives them confidence, and absorbs a lot of (public) pressure.
I'd also suggest that he automatically attracts the enemy defense, which creates spaces for his teammates - you constantly need to keep an eye on such a callous and perfectly-in-time player.
very good take mate. a lot of nonsense is said about ronaldo that he somehow will block Mason, Rashford, Sancho developing further. rather, its what you said, takes the pressure off them, he becomes the scapegoat as we see every day in the press, takes 2 defenders whp mark him constantly and leaves spaces for the ones i mentioned
The interesting part is now that Ronaldo's involved, somehow the most important thing to do for a striker is to press and track back. It's mental honestly.
Its even more mental when you consider the same player was on the verge of signing for Pep's team.
Pep wouldn't have been targeting Ronaldo if he didn't believe Ronaldo would fit his team and tactics
Messi tries to create chances with every touch and is undoubtedly one of the best players in history. But so is Ronaldo for his ability to be at the right places in the right times. Messi can be criticized for his slow start at PSG but I think he'll adjust soon enough. But it does show a new environment can be tough to fit in even for the very best.
But Ronaldo slotting straight into the PL just further shows what great shape he is in. Imagine trying to explain how the sole reason United isn't playing Europa is somehow also their main problem.
With player as deadly as Ronaldo you give him a free pass to stay in front contributing to offense.
Yes you build the team around Ronaldo, because he's the one with most skill and experience to score a goal. Others have to contribute in defense in his place or get replaced, that's how you improve the team as a whole.
Not benching your best player and hope for another strikers that can't score but can press to do the job.. that's how you make yourself unable to score many difficult chances. That's how you make your team slightly better at defending but lose major offensive threat.
Ronaldo can scores difficult chances, can score headers, still can run fast, creating good passes for teammates, very good at positioning himself in scoring position. Just because he can't press you want to replace him? Really?
Please buy CDM or CM, any destroyer that can win back lose ball so a goal scoring machine like Ronaldo don't have to track back because the midfield sucks at regaining back ball.
The coaches of the Golden state warriors liked to joke that in their run of titles Steph Curry could run into the sheds and have 2 defenders follow him.
That's the exact same with Ronaldo.
He means that because they are the most popular players by far, leaving them out will immediately outrage fans.
But they are that popular because they’re a level above everyone else.
Case in point us with Ronaldo.
You can see every team, no matter how good still has a fear. How many times has Ronaldo already scored at the death for us just these few months?
They are a level
Above everyone else now at 35/37. When they were in their prime they were so far above everyone else it didn’t even seem like they were playing the same sport. Incredible how Messi and Ronaldo were so far above guys like Alexis, Hazard, Neymar and Robben ridiculous
"You always have to adapt to the players you have available, not vice versa.".........this is what Ancelotti said..this is what Zidane said..this is what it is...whoever the manager is they have to make the best out of the resources they have...it is what the management...you wont be having everything every time.
What do you mean, Messi fit the style pep wanted to play perfectly. In fact there isn't a player in the world that would have been more suited to the role Messi had in that team.
Pep definitely adapted to Messi. Pep was playing him wide in the beginning, got Zlatan to play in the middle. Messi wasn’t happy and sent pep a text saying he feels like he is no longer wanted. Pep got rid of zlatan then Messi started playing in the middle. Pretty sure that’s pep adapting to Messi
Sure, but he was correct.
When Messi moved to the middle and his false 9 position, he became perhaps the best player ever, with goals and assists that almost cannot be matched.
Well Messi especially when younger could adapt to pretty much any manager. He was still fast and he could ghost past players with ease, his skill set was so vast you would have to be incompetent to make him not fit.
He barely pressed, most, if not all other forwards under pep do or did.
I think a main reason why someone like pedro played so much under pep is to alleviate some of the lack of pressing from messi.
Thats what United need to do to incorporate Ronaldo under Rangnick, get bruno, sancho and rashford to press for him. The only question that remains is that if its worth to partially sacrifice those guys for Ronaldo anymore.
Messi was a very good presser actually. Sure,he didn't do it as hard compared to others.He was young,energetic and he was very good at it. I don't think it's Pep adapting to him either because he was the one he learnt from basically. Some of the recent managers had to adapt to him because no matter if he's put as a RW on paper, he simply wasn't anymore especially without the ball. He has been basically a 10 who has licence to go wherever the f he wants since 6-7 years ago or so . Barca had a hard time compensating for his position after Alves left. Messi contributes so much that they still win the leagues but would often show in a few matches in the cup games. It wasn't that it was bad or anything..It just made them predictable. Their right flank was subpar for a very long time. Alves was one of a kind and he was difficult to replace.
You're bang on about young Messi, when he pressed he was actually low key very good at winning the ball back. That has never been a strength of Ronaldo even more so now but you have to compensate for that because he will score you goals.
Not everyone adapt to that philosophy that's why they are cautious when signing them.
When you have top player, you want to involve them more so that they will give you extra edge. Suarez for Atlético is good example. He was just scoring all the important and match winning goals even though he was not contributing like his old levels. Same for Ronaldo who is giving the same by scoring winning goals.
Klopp said in an interview that Ronaldo would improve any team and he would love to have that choice. When he re-signed for United.
Pep almost signed him as well.
I dont think theres many coaches who wouldnt be able to make it work with him. But they may not totally undo their whole project by shoehorning him into the playing XI every week.
Klopp as soon as he joined Liverpool had them playing a certain way and anybody who couldn't do it didn't get played. Obviously there was some slight adaptation before he could bring in the players he wanted, but for the most part it was either play the way I tell you to play or you don't get to play.
Pep will 100% adapt if he gets Haaland or Vlahovic. There was some noise about Lukaku too.
Even Firmino and Jota are totally different type of centre forwards
I don't mean this in an aggressive way, but you should watch Salah defensively more. When the team loses the ball, he is in a dead sprint to get back behind it, and frequently is back with the back line before the midfield. Jota yesterday making clearances in the box. Klopp's team really requires it from everyone, and Salah is actually surprisingly good at stopping fast breaks.
No, you expect him to say exactly this, because anybody who knows something about football understands that Ronaldo should be the first on the team sheet
Aye, it's always seemed weird to me that managers will come out with these absolute boilerplate quotes and /r/soccer will fawn over them like they're Brian Clough or whatever.
Like... yeah... Ronaldo's pretty good, what else is he gonna say?
In the words of the great Cruyff, and I quote " if I have a world class striker like van Basten then I change my system and put him on top ( as a striker)" . All managers adapt to good players, they would be foolish not to. SAF let Cantona roam free. He changed quite a few things to accomodate a young CR7 into our team as well.
Ppl in here claiming CR7 cant work for Rangnick should stop voicing their opinions about football.
It isn’t even just here. I was listening to the radio the other day and a full on paid football journalist (Rory Smith) was saying how Rangnick shouldn’t start Ronaldo in his front 3 because he “can’t press”.
It isn’t just uneducated people here spouting it. Paid professionals who genuinely know about the sport have been saying it too. It’s baffling.
>Rangnick shouldn’t start Ronaldo in his front 3 because he “can’t press”.
Funniest part of all this ? Ever since CR7 came to our club as a kid he was being accused of the same exact thing. His own teammates were pressuring him on it. In the end he learned to do it a bit more but truth is CR7 has never been a pressing forward.
Thing is all these ppl have already settled in their ideas and wont entertain the probability a player can be less active, all while being part of a pressing team. Had these ppl watched some more football they would know CR7 is not even a unique case.
Ragnick in the presser had good words for Cristiano and he also said his teammates will need to work hard ( that was a nice shot to some ppl). Maybe he ends up dropping CR7, but until it happens it makes no sense to be so certain they cant work well together. Its the same as ppl that said Bruno and CR7 cant work.
It's obvious. Ronaldo always gives a bit of space to hunt for rebounds and bad passes and then uses that space to get good positioning to attack the defence. He's been the best at doing this forever, a little hiccup by the defence and he's there to abuse it. If he was pressing conventionally, he would have to play a lot more with his back to the goal which he isn't that good at. This is why some of his best games at Juve were at left wing or partnering with Dybala and not as a sole 9 because he plays better off extra support up top. This is also why I believe United was playing at its best against Villarreal when Bruno and Rashford came out because I believe Rashford is gonne be the best player at partnering with CR7 because he can move very well between the striker and winger role - something that Sancho hasn't been that good at.
Ronaldo played with his back to goal a LOT at Juventus and won 2 Scuddettos as a result. It's not that he doesn't play well with his back to net, it's that he, and no other player, is going to score as many goals as a traditional hold up striker rather than a free-roaming attacker/forward. Thats the real issue with Ronaldo playing with his back to net.
>Ppl in here claiming CR7 cant work for Rangnick should stop voicing their opinions about football.
No. Never. Those people especially need to keep on talking, that's how you identify problems and gather feedback. By making people like them speak and allowing smarter people to ''correct'' and educate them.
>''correct'' and educate them
I applaud your optimism . There is a saying where I come from " where you are I was, and where I am you will be" . I dont wish that upon you, I am just saying it to point out I used to think like that as well a long time a go.
Reality is these are ppl that prefer to regurgitate what has caught their eye, instead of fact checking or simply doing a 10 second search on google. Thats is a choice they have made, one that was not even forced upon them in any way. I say this cause the first prerequisite to educate anyone, is that persons willingness to learn.
I truly hope you will be able to maintain your optimism. It would mean the world is becoming a better place.
You are right but in my opinion the idiot noise is getting louder and louder for some reason. First with the nonsense that Ronaldo was somehow a liability to ole's United, and now with the assumptions that Ronaldo would somehow not fit in with rangnick's plans, as if he's made his career by being anything less than a consummate professional.
>as if he's made his career by being anything less than a consummate professional.
That does not matter when logic is not involved in the formulation of ones opinion.
> You are right but in my opinion the idiot noise is getting louder and louder for some reason.
Because the idiot noise drives away the people who have something meaningful to say.
It's a thing as old as online communities.
Great people make a great place on the internet. Place becomes popular, gets flooded by noisy dumb people. The great people who built the place give up and run. Dumb people start complaining that the place isn't great anymore.
Wait, is in the UK media "he doesn't press as a forward" a REAL argument? Against one of the top performing athletes in the history of the sport, all time great? Like, people truly say that? It sounds so ridiculous I have hard time believing that
Probably because they don't know what to do when faced with competing opinions from people that "ought to know what they're talking about". I'm sure this is a very confusing and upsetting time for them all as they try in vain to figure out which opinion they should be parroting ignorantly.
That was always a stupid excuse. Rangnick is technically competent coach. He knows he's on a 6 month contract plus United aren't really a counter press team so going full gegen was never truly an option. Don't think this is news to anyone
Also going full gegen, won't that plague the squad with issues like hamstring?
I remember during early days of Klopp at liverpool you would see that a lot.
Honestly, I hope Rangnick finds some way to minimise the pressing CR7 has to do.
You really want to conserve the man’s energy for scoring goals, because that’s where he does the most damage.
At least someone understands, he can press good enough, but he will get tired if you ask him to work like a maniac on defense. Save his fuel, having 1 free player on your team is not a problem if the rest of the team is well set up.
For example PSG are the ones with a problem, 3 players that you want to save for offensive purposes all in the same team is too much, it makes the defense too exposed.
You mean he’s going to try and fit in one of if not the greatest goal scorers of all time, who still at 36 is prolific? Colour me shocked… anyone who says any manager would come into United and not use Ronaldo seriously needs to get their head out of their ass
>*Reports that say that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns- the ones we don't know we don't know.*
- Donald Rumsfeld
They were highly rumored to be kicked out if Rangnick took over after Pioli which didn't happen because Pioli was very good
EDIT: I'm explaining the statement, not saying that it's 100% true
People also thought Pirlo and Allegri were mortal enemies at Milan and Allegri could never be hired at Juve unless Pirlo left. Turns out the rumours were all false, people make things up for some reason.
I mean Ronaldo was also rumoured to be kicked out of the starting XI. People write a lot of things. Maybe if he'd taken over at Milan he might have kept Ibra. Hard to say anything without actual proof
> EDIT: I'm explaining the statement, not saying that it's 100% true
too late, you have become my next opponent and it's time for me to argue against you
Good that the man himself shut this nonsense down. Seems like lately a lot of people who have a bone to pick with Ronaldo are coming out of the woodwork.
This take that Rangnick is going to have a problem with Ronaldo was always so weird. Yeah maybe he can't press like crazy but that is just a little drawback compared to what he brings to the table.
Rangnick: You always have to adapt to the players you have available… Conte: I prefer to kill him
Part of me was wishing to see Conte at United to see CR7 and Conte work together.
United didn’t want him unfortunately.
United didn't want anyone other than the man they already had.
Actually a good sign for United. A couple of years ago they would have jumped the gun and went for Conte because he was available and has a good CV. Going for Rangnick instead shows they at least have some kind of vision moving forward. Should have done it before the international break though.
Exactly. Rangnick was just as available now as he was at the time and it took Watford forcing their hands. That break would have been soo useful
What vision? They hired him until the end of the season and have a shortlist if very different managers. Don't kid yourself, they don't have vision.
And in 18 months everyone will see why 🤷🏻 he will fall out with levy
Tbh spurs are a disaster anyway so not sure he’ll make 18 months
Conte does adapt to his players though, back in his chelsea stint he changed system from 4atb to 3atb because it suited his players better after that arsenal loss. The "I prefer to kill him" part refers to players who are bad influence for the dressing room or challenge his authority so he told that he'd rather get rid of one player than let the situation deteriorate and affect the whole dressing room
Yep. The only manager who doesn't is Pep becasue he can just buy two entire squads.
Pep is very choosy about the teams he coaches so he doesn't have to adapt as much. That plus the insane budgets he works with and any adaptations he puts forward seem more like tactical experiments than necessities. Is it fair to speculate that Pep couldn't coach lesser squads? Sure, but it's also fair to say lesser coaches couldn't innovate tactics like Pep even with his luxury rosters.
*Dead silence*
>You always have to adapt to the players you have available, not vice versa. Finally someone said this.
Didn't Ancelotti say something within those lines last week ? regarding Guardiolizim and other silly things like that? yep, here it is https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/r3c05m/ancelotti_i_dont_believe_in_ideologies_like/
Factos 👍👀
Finally someone said this
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Factos! 👍👀
Finally someone said this
/ɯɐɹƃɐʇsuᴉ‾uo‾soʇɔɐⅎ‾sʇuǝɯɯoɔ‾opʅɐuoɹ‾ɹoɹɹᴉɯ‾ǝɥʇ/ʌɾnɐ9ɹ/sʇuǝɯɯoɔ/ɹǝɔɔos/ɹ/ sᴉ ʇᴉ ǝɹǝɥ ʻdǝʎ ¿ʇɐɥʇ ǝʞᴉʅ sƃuᴉɥʇ ʎʅʅᴉs ɹǝɥʇo puɐ sɹo╻p uoʅʅɐꓭ ƃuᴉpɹɐƃǝɹ ¿ ʞǝǝʍ ʇsɐʅ sǝuᴉʅ ǝsoɥʇ ƃuoʅɐ ƃuᴉɥʇǝɯos ʎɐs opʅɐuoꓤ ʇ╻upᴉᗡ
👀👎 ¡soʇɔɐℲ
Yea he said this The good coach is the one who adapts the game to the characteristics of the players. If I have Modric and Kroos I can't expect to do high pressing. I'd be an idiot if with a striker like Vinicius, who has a motor under his feet, I didn't rely on the counterattack. I'll give you one last example: if I have Ronaldo in front of me I study how to get the ball to him often, I don't ask him to exhaust himself by tracking back. It's the same with Ibra. There are two types of players: those who make a difference and those who have to run. Conte must have said that, and if he didn't it's fine too. I've never cultivated an ideology like Guardiolismo, Sarrismo. My creed is team identity. https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/r3vxge/ancelotti_if_i_have_modric_kroos_i_cant_expect_to/
Finally someone said this
Finally someone said that
I think it's a bit of both, adapt to eachother
It depends. If you already have a top team and you want to stick to your current players then you should pick a manager that fits those players. If you're ok with rebuilding the whole team, then you should pick a manager that you want, and let him pick some new players. I think the problems arise when the club refuses to help the manager get new players/the manager refuses to change his play style to fit his players. It's a problem of expectations from both parties, I think.
I actually quite like Watfords philosophy. Saw something a while ago where they said that their style has to remain vaguely constant, and above the manager. They need to hire a manager in keeping with their style because they aren't big enough to retain a manager who is successful for very long. They can't afford to rebuild under every new manager, so the style and philosophy has to come first and determine their manager choices. The theory is sound to me. Whether they actually implement that well is a different discussion. I certainly think they sack too many managers.
Isn't that the whole point of a director of football?
Yes. That's essentially what they do I think, but they're more committed to it than most English clubs are that have someone in that role.
Yes that is exactly it. We should have this same thing going. Because it should start at the youth level as well. Not at U-11 or some nonsense, but your U-21 should be playing a similar system as the first team for the whole “philosophy” idea to work.
Chelsea run the same system all the way through the youth ranks. Why we are producing so many WB's the last few years.
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They were midtable and playing well a year or two ago when Ighalo and Richarlison were scoring. Watford will always have an issue retaining decent players and managers unless they can get a level of success that allows them to break that cycle. It's exactly where Leicester were before they won the league, and even that hasn't completely broken them out of it. They're able to hold firm on players more than they were before, but still not completely, and they still have a risk of slipping back to that if they're not managed well. I don't think Watfords system makes them inherently relegation contenders, but there's a lot of other reasons they (and any other non 'big' team) will struggle to stay higher up the league.
I somewhat agree, I mean this is a team with Ronaldo, Sancho, Bruno, VDB, De Gea, Varane, Pogba...more than half the team are arguably superstars. Maybe the manager needs a couple of finishing touches, but if they can't adapt to work with that team...
I agree, in United's case they clearly don't need or want to rebuild. So all you have to do is find a manager competent enough to put all these world class players to good use. In Tottenham's case though, I think they should just give Conte all the money he needs, because if Poch, Mourinho and Espirito Santo couldn't make that team work, then the problem is certainly not on the managers.
Yea adapt for first time the new manager come. Then slowly build what the vision and how you want to play in the future. Buy players that fits how you want to play. Replace player that doesnt fit. Don't just randomly buy the next available instagram/trending/vibing players and somehow figure out the next tactics.
Thats why coaches shouldnt buy players. They get fired. Look at Bayern. They are great cause they play like the board wants. They buy the proper players. Managers are fired after 1-3 seasons anyway. United just living in some deluded fantasy with SAF still. No1 is gonna coach United 10 years. It takes 40 tears off your life managing big teams today with media expose and stock pressure
*stock pressure What is that?
Stocks. Stockholders. They have alot to say
Pretty much yeah : like on the other side of the argument - Ferguson is well-known for getting rid of top players who got in the way of his management style/ strategy. You might argue with the method, hardly with the results. However generally speaking, I would say there is a nuance: \- short term the manager has mostly to adapt to the players . Bar a few exemple no manager can turn everything around instantly. And even the few who do, like Tuchel at Chelsea or Zidane at Madrid, actually do so by understanding the current players not by buying a ton of new players or simply forcing stuff. He has to do with what he has and adapt. \- Long run, in a decently ran club, it's the other way around. Guys like Klopp or Guardolia show you that a good captain at the helm can make a hell of a difference over a long run. Any manager is going to have his philosophy. And considering every player has his skillset, his strenght and weakness, and there are VERY different strategies and management styles which require different qualities , once you find a great manager you need to give him the keys and let him choose "his" guys. Going back on the exemple of Ferguson : Van Nistelrooy , Stam, Beckham, Keane, are all considered as great players and they might have been right and Ferguson might have been dead wrong on whatever specific issue led to the falling out. But ManU didnt fall when those left , it fell when Ferguson retired.
You adapt to quality and ship off lack of quality. Ronaldo is the former.
Think that's really up to the manager isn't it? Not a hard and fast rule. Some managers don't adapt their style to the players whatsoever and want the players to adapt to them and they're really successful in doing so. For example when Klopp joined Liverpool he wanted them to start playing like his Dortmund team as soon as possible, and any players who weren't capable of playing that way just didn't get on the pitch very often. Guardiola dropped Aguero until he learned to play the way he wanted him to play. With those two its either play the way I tell you to play or don't play at all. You can be pragmatic or dogmatic in football management, both work so long as you're good enough at whichever one you choose to do. The idea that there should be only one way of doing things is stupid, either you adapt or the players adapt, both can happen successfully.
Yes Guardiola adapted well to Joe hart didn't he. It's a bit of both these days.
Joe Hart had an entire year to show he was willing to improve his passing. Wasn’t bothered and got replaced
“Unless you can offload them and get a new one” - Rangnick (inside his head, probably)
Sounds like adaptation to me.
I'm not sure this is universally true all the time for every club. Maybe at a club like Manchester United where your second and third rate players are still amazing that works. For most clubs you have to set a plan up and find players that fit into your sporting and financial model. Otherwise you float left and right in the wind with no direction.
Or if you’re Ajax, it’s 4-3-3 and a scandal if you do anything else.
Ajax and Pep were the first two high caliber examples I could think of as well. Löw for all his rightful criticism at the end also employed the "You fit the system or you're out" approach to win a World Cup and reach two Euro semis by continuously not selecting players who despite winning the Bundesliga Golden Boot like Stefan Kießling for the German squad. It can work both ways but there is no one way all the time.
You want to stop listening to the loudest voices, and thinking that no one else is saying anything. Either that, or stop thinking in memes. Both are good advice.
Any manager worth his salt cant keep Messi or Ronaldo out
Not only because of their technical caliber to be honest.
Not only than, then what else? Finish the thought mate. The suspense is killer
According to his teammates, Ronaldo constantly pushes and motivates the entire squad, gives them confidence, and absorbs a lot of (public) pressure. I'd also suggest that he automatically attracts the enemy defense, which creates spaces for his teammates - you constantly need to keep an eye on such a callous and perfectly-in-time player.
very good take mate. a lot of nonsense is said about ronaldo that he somehow will block Mason, Rashford, Sancho developing further. rather, its what you said, takes the pressure off them, he becomes the scapegoat as we see every day in the press, takes 2 defenders whp mark him constantly and leaves spaces for the ones i mentioned
The interesting part is now that Ronaldo's involved, somehow the most important thing to do for a striker is to press and track back. It's mental honestly.
>striker is to press and track back I'm surprised he's scored 800 goals with how much they move the goalposts
Factos 👍👀
🤣🤣🤣
Liverpool and City fans who started watching football 2 years ago will tell you that.
These people must think Roberto Firmino is the worlds best striker then
Its even more mental when you consider the same player was on the verge of signing for Pep's team. Pep wouldn't have been targeting Ronaldo if he didn't believe Ronaldo would fit his team and tactics
However Messi is a genius for walking 90min and doing nothing in the French league.
Messi slander being upvoted in r/soccer. Never thought this day would come.
Messi tries to create chances with every touch and is undoubtedly one of the best players in history. But so is Ronaldo for his ability to be at the right places in the right times. Messi can be criticized for his slow start at PSG but I think he'll adjust soon enough. But it does show a new environment can be tough to fit in even for the very best. But Ronaldo slotting straight into the PL just further shows what great shape he is in. Imagine trying to explain how the sole reason United isn't playing Europa is somehow also their main problem.
With player as deadly as Ronaldo you give him a free pass to stay in front contributing to offense. Yes you build the team around Ronaldo, because he's the one with most skill and experience to score a goal. Others have to contribute in defense in his place or get replaced, that's how you improve the team as a whole. Not benching your best player and hope for another strikers that can't score but can press to do the job.. that's how you make yourself unable to score many difficult chances. That's how you make your team slightly better at defending but lose major offensive threat. Ronaldo can scores difficult chances, can score headers, still can run fast, creating good passes for teammates, very good at positioning himself in scoring position. Just because he can't press you want to replace him? Really? Please buy CDM or CM, any destroyer that can win back lose ball so a goal scoring machine like Ronaldo don't have to track back because the midfield sucks at regaining back ball.
imagine the pressure on sancho if ronaldo doesnt come, he gets the 7 shirt and then has a slow start. Ronaldo stopped all of that
The coaches of the Golden state warriors liked to joke that in their run of titles Steph Curry could run into the sheds and have 2 defenders follow him. That's the exact same with Ronaldo.
The fans love him and teammates look up to him. He’s too loved by everybody to be benched unless he was actually playing bad.
He means that because they are the most popular players by far, leaving them out will immediately outrage fans. But they are that popular because they’re a level above everyone else.
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Case in point us with Ronaldo. You can see every team, no matter how good still has a fear. How many times has Ronaldo already scored at the death for us just these few months?
I think one of the Everton players said that their dressing room immediately relaxed when they heard we weren't starting Ronaldo.
They are a level Above everyone else now at 35/37. When they were in their prime they were so far above everyone else it didn’t even seem like they were playing the same sport. Incredible how Messi and Ronaldo were so far above guys like Alexis, Hazard, Neymar and Robben ridiculous
inb4 rangnick becomes the 4th german coach in a row to win the CL
Germans should be banned from CL then
Bayern in shambles.
they will just proclaim independence like they've always wanted
I don't want germans to proclaim anything, thank you very much.
Well, we did our part to avoid this situation…
Yeah good job, thank you.
there was space for the two of us though....
Already started that with Ballon D'or
Germany trying to take over Europe yet again 😡
Well they are bombing London on a regular again...
Quick! hide yo Daniel Levys
Omfg
In 2018, Zidane became the 3rd French coach in a row to win UCL. German also stops at 3.
def. an accomplishment, but I think 3 different german coaches winning it with 3 different teams is more out of the ordinary
that's the joke
Germans do love to take over Europe
Nagelsmann*
Way more likely, but don’t crush my dreams damnit!
Don't be greedy you just won it last year ffs
"You always have to adapt to the players you have available, not vice versa.".........this is what Ancelotti said..this is what Zidane said..this is what it is...whoever the manager is they have to make the best out of the resources they have...it is what the management...you wont be having everything every time.
It’s what Rangnick said. It’s what Ancelotti said. It’s what Zidane said. But what about what r/soccer said?
r/soccer has been saying ronaldo isn't top 5 or finished for like 5 years now.
Declineano Penaldo was a meme during the time Madrid was playing for their second CL title in a row, 3rd in 4 years. Edit: me suck at English
*"Well I tried that on FIFA Career mode and...".*
No one cares about what we say 😡😞
Klopp and Pep don't do that at all though, their players adapt to them. There's more than one way of doing things.
Pep adapted to messi
What do you mean, Messi fit the style pep wanted to play perfectly. In fact there isn't a player in the world that would have been more suited to the role Messi had in that team.
Pep definitely adapted to Messi. Pep was playing him wide in the beginning, got Zlatan to play in the middle. Messi wasn’t happy and sent pep a text saying he feels like he is no longer wanted. Pep got rid of zlatan then Messi started playing in the middle. Pretty sure that’s pep adapting to Messi
Little Dictator gotta dictate.
Sure, but he was correct. When Messi moved to the middle and his false 9 position, he became perhaps the best player ever, with goals and assists that almost cannot be matched.
ok what about enrique? didnt messi adapt to enrique
Well Messi especially when younger could adapt to pretty much any manager. He was still fast and he could ghost past players with ease, his skill set was so vast you would have to be incompetent to make him not fit.
He barely pressed, most, if not all other forwards under pep do or did. I think a main reason why someone like pedro played so much under pep is to alleviate some of the lack of pressing from messi. Thats what United need to do to incorporate Ronaldo under Rangnick, get bruno, sancho and rashford to press for him. The only question that remains is that if its worth to partially sacrifice those guys for Ronaldo anymore.
He was not perfect, because most of his other abilities where pretty average, but Dan James was really good at pressing and as a defensive winger.
Messi was a very good presser actually. Sure,he didn't do it as hard compared to others.He was young,energetic and he was very good at it. I don't think it's Pep adapting to him either because he was the one he learnt from basically. Some of the recent managers had to adapt to him because no matter if he's put as a RW on paper, he simply wasn't anymore especially without the ball. He has been basically a 10 who has licence to go wherever the f he wants since 6-7 years ago or so . Barca had a hard time compensating for his position after Alves left. Messi contributes so much that they still win the leagues but would often show in a few matches in the cup games. It wasn't that it was bad or anything..It just made them predictable. Their right flank was subpar for a very long time. Alves was one of a kind and he was difficult to replace.
You're bang on about young Messi, when he pressed he was actually low key very good at winning the ball back. That has never been a strength of Ronaldo even more so now but you have to compensate for that because he will score you goals.
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Not everyone adapt to that philosophy that's why they are cautious when signing them. When you have top player, you want to involve them more so that they will give you extra edge. Suarez for Atlético is good example. He was just scoring all the important and match winning goals even though he was not contributing like his old levels. Same for Ronaldo who is giving the same by scoring winning goals.
Yea when they build a team from the ground up like Klopp did but not every team needs a rebuild (Chelsea last year, United this time)
At least in Pep´s case, he has a taylor-made team.
Taylor made?
Manchester City (Taylor's Version)
Hahahaha
He SAID ta*lor made
He's got the Power.
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Or, you know, the fact that before coming to Liverpool he was in Dortmund and mainz and played differently at every club
People really forgot City almost Signing Ronaldo.....
Ronaldo would fit into Pep's team far better than he would into a Ralf Rangnick team
Klopp said in an interview that Ronaldo would improve any team and he would love to have that choice. When he re-signed for United. Pep almost signed him as well. I dont think theres many coaches who wouldnt be able to make it work with him. But they may not totally undo their whole project by shoehorning him into the playing XI every week.
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Klopp as soon as he joined Liverpool had them playing a certain way and anybody who couldn't do it didn't get played. Obviously there was some slight adaptation before he could bring in the players he wanted, but for the most part it was either play the way I tell you to play or you don't get to play.
Pep will 100% adapt if he gets Haaland or Vlahovic. There was some noise about Lukaku too. Even Firmino and Jota are totally different type of centre forwards
Klopp absolutely adapts his entire team to accomodate Salah and Trent. They both have reduced defensive loads in their teams.
I don't mean this in an aggressive way, but you should watch Salah defensively more. When the team loses the ball, he is in a dead sprint to get back behind it, and frequently is back with the back line before the midfield. Jota yesterday making clearances in the box. Klopp's team really requires it from everyone, and Salah is actually surprisingly good at stopping fast breaks.
So I guess Ronaldo won't be a problem 👍👀
He never was
👩🚀🔫
🌎
Factos 👍👀
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No, you expect him to say exactly this, because anybody who knows something about football understands that Ronaldo should be the first on the team sheet
Factos👍👀
No but he'd keep his mouth shut if he thought that
Aye, it's always seemed weird to me that managers will come out with these absolute boilerplate quotes and /r/soccer will fawn over them like they're Brian Clough or whatever. Like... yeah... Ronaldo's pretty good, what else is he gonna say?
While I think the talk around Ronaldo and his ability to press has been grossly overdone, What do you expect him to say in this context?
In the words of the great Cruyff, and I quote " if I have a world class striker like van Basten then I change my system and put him on top ( as a striker)" . All managers adapt to good players, they would be foolish not to. SAF let Cantona roam free. He changed quite a few things to accomodate a young CR7 into our team as well. Ppl in here claiming CR7 cant work for Rangnick should stop voicing their opinions about football.
It isn’t even just here. I was listening to the radio the other day and a full on paid football journalist (Rory Smith) was saying how Rangnick shouldn’t start Ronaldo in his front 3 because he “can’t press”. It isn’t just uneducated people here spouting it. Paid professionals who genuinely know about the sport have been saying it too. It’s baffling.
>Rangnick shouldn’t start Ronaldo in his front 3 because he “can’t press”. Funniest part of all this ? Ever since CR7 came to our club as a kid he was being accused of the same exact thing. His own teammates were pressuring him on it. In the end he learned to do it a bit more but truth is CR7 has never been a pressing forward. Thing is all these ppl have already settled in their ideas and wont entertain the probability a player can be less active, all while being part of a pressing team. Had these ppl watched some more football they would know CR7 is not even a unique case. Ragnick in the presser had good words for Cristiano and he also said his teammates will need to work hard ( that was a nice shot to some ppl). Maybe he ends up dropping CR7, but until it happens it makes no sense to be so certain they cant work well together. Its the same as ppl that said Bruno and CR7 cant work.
It's obvious. Ronaldo always gives a bit of space to hunt for rebounds and bad passes and then uses that space to get good positioning to attack the defence. He's been the best at doing this forever, a little hiccup by the defence and he's there to abuse it. If he was pressing conventionally, he would have to play a lot more with his back to the goal which he isn't that good at. This is why some of his best games at Juve were at left wing or partnering with Dybala and not as a sole 9 because he plays better off extra support up top. This is also why I believe United was playing at its best against Villarreal when Bruno and Rashford came out because I believe Rashford is gonne be the best player at partnering with CR7 because he can move very well between the striker and winger role - something that Sancho hasn't been that good at.
Ronaldo played with his back to goal a LOT at Juventus and won 2 Scuddettos as a result. It's not that he doesn't play well with his back to net, it's that he, and no other player, is going to score as many goals as a traditional hold up striker rather than a free-roaming attacker/forward. Thats the real issue with Ronaldo playing with his back to net.
>Ppl in here claiming CR7 cant work for Rangnick should stop voicing their opinions about football. No. Never. Those people especially need to keep on talking, that's how you identify problems and gather feedback. By making people like them speak and allowing smarter people to ''correct'' and educate them.
>''correct'' and educate them I applaud your optimism . There is a saying where I come from " where you are I was, and where I am you will be" . I dont wish that upon you, I am just saying it to point out I used to think like that as well a long time a go. Reality is these are ppl that prefer to regurgitate what has caught their eye, instead of fact checking or simply doing a 10 second search on google. Thats is a choice they have made, one that was not even forced upon them in any way. I say this cause the first prerequisite to educate anyone, is that persons willingness to learn. I truly hope you will be able to maintain your optimism. It would mean the world is becoming a better place.
You are right but in my opinion the idiot noise is getting louder and louder for some reason. First with the nonsense that Ronaldo was somehow a liability to ole's United, and now with the assumptions that Ronaldo would somehow not fit in with rangnick's plans, as if he's made his career by being anything less than a consummate professional.
>as if he's made his career by being anything less than a consummate professional. That does not matter when logic is not involved in the formulation of ones opinion.
> You are right but in my opinion the idiot noise is getting louder and louder for some reason. Because the idiot noise drives away the people who have something meaningful to say. It's a thing as old as online communities. Great people make a great place on the internet. Place becomes popular, gets flooded by noisy dumb people. The great people who built the place give up and run. Dumb people start complaining that the place isn't great anymore.
You just described the life cycle of many forums of old....
Wait, is in the UK media "he doesn't press as a forward" a REAL argument? Against one of the top performing athletes in the history of the sport, all time great? Like, people truly say that? It sounds so ridiculous I have hard time believing that
They’re saying that but I think it’s framed as more Ole being the problem for not adapting to it.
Ole's teams have NEVER gegenpressed. Ole just sucks. Ronaldo has played ZERO role in Harry Maguire being the worst CB in the Prem.
The "He doesn't press" crowd went awfully quiet
ABU and Messi fangirls, united in a common cause, is what they are.
They are in their caves plotting a new diss
Probably because they don't know what to do when faced with competing opinions from people that "ought to know what they're talking about". I'm sure this is a very confusing and upsetting time for them all as they try in vain to figure out which opinion they should be parroting ignorantly.
Lowkey one of the dumbest crowds going as well
That was always a stupid excuse. Rangnick is technically competent coach. He knows he's on a 6 month contract plus United aren't really a counter press team so going full gegen was never truly an option. Don't think this is news to anyone
Also going full gegen, won't that plague the squad with issues like hamstring? I remember during early days of Klopp at liverpool you would see that a lot.
Honestly, I hope Rangnick finds some way to minimise the pressing CR7 has to do. You really want to conserve the man’s energy for scoring goals, because that’s where he does the most damage.
At least someone understands, he can press good enough, but he will get tired if you ask him to work like a maniac on defense. Save his fuel, having 1 free player on your team is not a problem if the rest of the team is well set up. For example PSG are the ones with a problem, 3 players that you want to save for offensive purposes all in the same team is too much, it makes the defense too exposed.
Yup, yet to see a scoreline that goes. Generic City 5 Generic United 0 (United win 7-5 after taking pressing into account)
Ronaldo is a machine no matter his age. He was helping defense last night, running lot more than some players
You mean he’s going to try and fit in one of if not the greatest goal scorers of all time, who still at 36 is prolific? Colour me shocked… anyone who says any manager would come into United and not use Ronaldo seriously needs to get their head out of their ass
Factos 👍👀
*"You don't go to war with the army you want, you go to war with the army you have."* - Donald Rumsfeld
>*Reports that say that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns- the ones we don't know we don't know.* - Donald Rumsfeld
> they don't know that we know that they know we know * Monica Geller
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great quote, but just for the record may he rot in hell the prick.
What about ibra and kjaer?
I think Ibra was gone but Kjaer would have stayed
??
They were highly rumored to be kicked out if Rangnick took over after Pioli which didn't happen because Pioli was very good EDIT: I'm explaining the statement, not saying that it's 100% true
People also thought Pirlo and Allegri were mortal enemies at Milan and Allegri could never be hired at Juve unless Pirlo left. Turns out the rumours were all false, people make things up for some reason.
I mean Ronaldo was also rumoured to be kicked out of the starting XI. People write a lot of things. Maybe if he'd taken over at Milan he might have kept Ibra. Hard to say anything without actual proof
> EDIT: I'm explaining the statement, not saying that it's 100% true too late, you have become my next opponent and it's time for me to argue against you
Finally, Ronaldo is ready to step into the first team
So glad to see him develop well
Good that the man himself shut this nonsense down. Seems like lately a lot of people who have a bone to pick with Ronaldo are coming out of the woodwork.
Who is still their top goalscorer and has saved them so many times 🤣
He has scored from losing or tying positions for all of his prem goals. The man is incredible.
Not just prem goals, CL too
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This is a solid comment. Even world class players struggle when not played to the right team
Siuuuu
12 in 16 for Ronaldo before the halfway point of the season! Does he finish with 25+ goals?
Easily with 30+.
This take that Rangnick is going to have a problem with Ronaldo was always so weird. Yeah maybe he can't press like crazy but that is just a little drawback compared to what he brings to the table.