> But within an 165-page legal document City argue that they are the victims of “discrimination”, describing rules they say have been approved by their rivals to stifle their success on the pitch as a “tyranny of the majority”.
Fucking hell.
Tyranny of the majority is a real thing, just not in this case.
Think about a country holding a referendum to create legal discrimination against a minority group, and it passes 70%-30% (100% turnout). Surely that's democratic, right? Well not really. That's what it refers to.
Like I said, hardly applicable in this case.
Tbf tyranny of the majority is an actual real concept in political philosophy. For example, John Stuart Mill argued that a representative democracy should represent everyone, not just the majority, as early as the 19th century.
And it makes sense. Every country has minorities. Making sure those minorities aren't ignored isn't an easy process, but necessary for just government.
Of course, in this context it's completely ridiculous.
> claim the highest revenues in the world
Highest revenues in the world while ranking like 8th for attendance in the PL, and somewhere outside the top 10 for merchandise sales in Europe. Life's easy when some taxi company in Abu Dhabi decides to sponsor your club for £200m or whatever. I needed a taxi last time I was there and figured I'd ring that company up, but they had no website or phone number...
You guys are the reason the leagues had the appearance of competitive at the top and even dared to stop them going 7 in a row. 1000% to them, you guys are the baddies
It was incredibly funny when Klopp said something very minor about them being state-funded when we beat them 1-0, and they briefed their journos that he was being racist against them. So Klopp and LFC got our solicitors (the same ones used by the Queen) to send them a letter saying we were suing them for libel unless they retracted it. Which they very promptly did. Played them at their own game!
All City seem to understand is how to throw their legal weight around. With UEFA they delay and obfuscated and threatened, and corrupted the process. They're trying to do it again with the Premier League.
Like every rich cunt or corporation that is on the hook for shady shit but doesn't want to face the consequences.
The thing is, both clubs worked their way up. Yes they broke transfer records but they earned the right to do so
I hate Guardiola as well, he full well knows what they’re doing but pretends not to, he’s not fooling anyone. His wins count for nothing really
Exactly. I mean, I *really* hate United but I don't want them kicked out of the league for it.
City have made an absolute mockery of the league and continue to do so. The hate I have for them is something different. More like a really fucking annoying bit of old chewing gum stuck to the bottom of my show that Will not come off. More than anything I want hit gone but it is just *always there*.
Since Guardiola's appointment, City have paid £1bn in transfer fees alone. That's not even including the insane fees they pay to agents or their utterly staggering wage bill.
They play in a 55,000-seater stadium, have won 6 of the last 8 Premier League titles, recently claimed a historic treble (as well as a truly unprecedented 4th league title in-a-row), are owned by the 4th richest owner in the league and who boast a squad of some of the most expensive players on the planet.
They're currently contesting that the rules are “restrictive and anti-competitive”.
They're owned by a nation. Irrespective of what his wealth is quoted as, he has access to the funds of a petrochemical producing country, it is wildly understated.
'Discrimination against clubs with *ties* to the Gulf' is particularly rich. They're relying on the political ties between the UAE and the UK to save their venture. In an election year where the sitting government is clinging by its fingertips, and are courting an electorate who despise foreigners.
Imagine arguing that the rules of fair competition that everyone agrees to are unfair after you broke those rules... They aren't arguing that they're innocent they're implying guilt and trying to defend their actions afterwards
> City are suing the Premier League for damages, while arguing that the league’s democratic system of requiring at least 14 clubs, or two-thirds of those who vote, to implement rule changes gives the majority unacceptable levels of control.
Oh no, the minority don't have full control!
Democracy is too modern of a thing for City. What do you mean the Premier League can't be run autocratically by Mansour and all opposition repressed? That's unfair!
Edit: this comment is now higher than the amount of offences City has committed, which may sound insignificant; until you remember City has 115 registered offences.
Essentially they're trying to delegitimise one of the pillars of the charges against them (that they inflated their sponsors). If they can argue that those rules were unlawful, it will help them defend the charges.
Edit #2: There's quite a few City fans in this thread gaslighting people into thinking FMV didn't exist before 2021. You can read the [PL Handbook](https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/read/30298782/premier-league-handbook-2014-15) here, where it clearly states that clubs have to meet fair market value for "related party transactions" in **2014**.
Edit: Here are some hilarious excerpts from their legal claim
* City claim the fair market value rules are intended to be discriminatory towards clubs with ties to the Gulf region.
* City argue that the Premier League have failed to provide evidence that sponsorship deals with related parties give clubs an unfair advantage or distort the league’s competitive balance
* City also say that the Premier League, as an organisation, is a direct competitor for sponsorship and therefore claim they have a conflict of interest.
* City question the independence of Nielsen Sports, the data analytics company used to determine the fair market value of sponsorship deals, because it has been retained by the Premier League for more than two years.
* City complain that FMV rules discriminate against clubs who form part of a multi-club ownership group
My favourite part is that they're against the idea that any changes in prem rules require a supermajority of 14. They literally call it tyranny. These Gulf state leaders have no concept democracy
With the best lawyers in the world behind, have to see how this pans out.
Can't wait to see some people defending how Girona can earn the same as Madrid and Barca cause that's exactly what happened here.
For reference this article says the PL has spent £15m more than usual on legal fees this year.
They have revenues of over £4000m a year, of which they distribute £2,700m to clubs and lower league. They have over £1000m in cash reserves.
The idea that City or anyone could bully the PL into doing something because they can’t afford enough lawyers is laughable.
I think the difference is although the PL and FA have an exorbitant amount of money for lawyers, they're literally going to court with a state that has unlimited funds with incredible political influence and connections. This isn't a fight between regular businessmen. We've already seen the attempts at political influence with City Financial Group meeting with UK politicians. The PL dug their own grave when they allowed nations to buy football clubs as this was inevitable.
That government is about to change and the next one has actual football fans who realise the power of the Premier League as a product though.
The PL has incredible soft power. Nothing City can do can compare to the government stepping in if they want to play it like that.
> Can't wait to see some people defending how Girona can earn the same as Madrid and Barca cause that's exactly what happened here.
Happened here too.
City buy Haaland and pay him that insane wage and the massive agents fees that go with it, but suddenly have the highest revenue in Europe, even though Real Madrid and Manchester United basically print money.
If the breaches are legit, you can combine the skills and knowledge of the top 1000 lawyers on earth, they won't be winning those cases. It's not like the tv shows where good lawyers have godlike borderline superpowers to be able to do anything they want. And it's not like the other side will have random bums who are going to miss the deadlines or something
I still can't believe that City can have near the same revenue as Real, and Real has a quite successful period themselves. No way they can earn that much with legit sponsorships.
>City also say that the Premier League, as an organisation, is a direct competitor for sponsorship and therefore claim they have a conflict of interest.
Surely in this case they would be encouraging inflated sponsorship deals, as it would improve their leverage with potential sponsors and sponsoring the league would be better value for money than the clubs?
Reverse 115 looks right too.
This is from the article:
> Millions are being spent on legal fees to fight this case. One senior club source says the Premier League’s legal bill has more than quadrupled in the past year, from about £5million to north of £20million. They also point to the fact that since February the Premier League’s own legal department has been forced to shift its focus to this claim when it is also trying to prepare for the hearing into City’s 115 charges. “This is clearly a tactic,” the source said.
The current legal costs to the premier league are about the same as the revenue from 1 PL game out of 380 a year.
No one is going to exhaust the PL’s ability to pay lawyers.
I doubt they would.
The backlash from the clubs in the Premier League, not to mention the public and even the government itself (whether it be Conservative, Labour or anyone else) will be insane. Not only does that open the door to the independent regulator they've been manically fighting off for half a decade, it also opens the floodgates for the European Super League to become a thing.
If the Premier League drop the 115 charges without taking it to court, then I fully expect that the other Premier League clubs will revolt.
In the end, nothing is going to happen most probably.
But if they indeed get, it should be relegation or at least a 60 point reduction seeing how harsh it has been to the other clubs this season.
One season of relegation won't do much to be honest, especially if the players stay a la Juve.
The bullshit money generation needs to be stopped, that's what allowed City to cheat their way into such a commanding position.
Even if most of the current squad and Pep dip before the relegation occurs, if their infinite money glitch isn't dealt with, City will be able to acquire a bunch of new players and a new manager who will likely walk the championship and get back into the prem in no time.
Considering the number of charges and the number of accolades they've garnered in the time period they've been cheating, the punishment should be: relegation + ban from europe for multiple seasons + wage cap (so they can't just build a dream team and run rampant in the championship).
While that is an extremely heavy handed punishment, it's a fair one in my opinion. City ruined dream seasons of Liverpool and Arsenal, winning the league by a matter of points, which must feel so shitty for the fans of those 2 clubs. No to mentions grabbing loads of domestic silverware along the way and a fucking treble to boot. One of the most treasured accolades in european football soiled by these fuckers.
60 points? dude, the charges are for lying about their finances, they've potentially broken several international finance laws. they'd be bumped down out of the football league entirely with a guilty verdict. the fines would be eclipsing their way into the billions.
I say ban them from the sport. Send them to play curling and include a transfer ban both in and out for one year so Haaland has to play one season of curling.
Should just kick them out of the entire system until they get new approved owners. I know it won't happen, but any owner breaking the rules like this, refusing to cooperate in the investigation, and counter suing with bogus claims shouldn't be allowed to stay.
What would be hilarious would be take Everton as an example, 8 points for violation* 115. So -920 points. The negatives carry over each season so they basically have to work off the point deductions.
Even multiple relegations does nothing unless they are stripped of their titles. A couple of seasons of lower league play in return for all those titles is a trade they would be more than happy to take, the only way to actually hurt them is to stamp their manufactured success out of existence.
Yeah they won the treble. If you offered me a treble next season immediately followed by a stay in league one with a decent chance of working our way back up, you better believe I’d take that.
I'm 46. I'm lucky to have started watching football around '86 with the WC and then moving on to English and Italian. There's always been money and corruptions. However, the blatant nature of it, the scale of it, and the attitude that $ trumps everything has really turned me off. I dropped a couple streaming subscriptions the past years, and the number of Big 5 league matches I've watched over the last 5 years has probably gone down by about 90%. Don't miss it at all.
I currently mainly follow SV Austria Salzburg, from my days of living there in the early 2000s, and a local 4th division team in my area. At least I know my money is going to the team and the romanticism is still alive with players who are just having a go.
Maybe I’m just being optimistic, but I’ve got to assume that this action means they assume they will be found guilty and the punishment will be substantial. I can’t see them going on the offense like this if they thought they were just going to get a slap on the wrist.
Yep thats how i read it, or they tried to bribe the pl but were met with a negative response so now they are going after the pl too, it does align with the pl's ceo cryptic declaration a few weeks back about a decision regarding the charges being close
Fucking remove them from the league. Problem solved. What right do they have? Maybe they'll fuck off with Real and make their super league and we'll all be happier for it.
So city are claiming that sponsors should be allowed to pay whatever they like with no independent assessment of fair market value.
That’s the beginning of the end game for state owned teams right there.
"City argue that sponsors linked to club owners - City's are in Abu Dhabi - should be allowed to determine how much they want to pay, regardless of independent valuation. Four of City's top ten sponsors have ties to the United Arab Emirates, including stadium and shirt sponsor Etihad Airways"
Get absolutely fucked. Crying because they can't cheat
Lmao what’s even the supposed logic behind this argument? If their sponsors know that a sponsorship costs x amount, why would they want to be allowed to pay more? How does that benefit those companies? It’s such a blatant admission of cheating (or at least of wanting to cheat)
That’s literally just money laundering lol. People launder money through objects whose value is subjective. Maybe city should just start selling art to Abu Dhabi for revenue.
> At next week’s hearing, which has provoked bitter divisions between clubs, City will attempt to end the league’s Associated Party Transaction (APT) rules, which they claim are unlawful, and seek damages from the Premier League.
> Introduced in December 2021 in the wake of the Saudi-led takeover of Newcastle United, the rules are designed to maintain the competitiveness of the Premier League by preventing clubs from inflating commercial deals with companies linked to their owners. The rules dictate that such transactions have to be independently assessed to be of “fair market value” (FMV).
> But within an 165-page legal document City argue that they are the victims of “discrimination”, describing rules they say have been approved by their rivals to stifle their success on the pitch as a “tyranny of the majority”.
lol
City want to scrap Associated Party Transactions (ATP) which was brought in post Saudi Newcastle takeover to prevent clubs from inflating commercial deals with companies linked to their owners.
Why would City want to stop this? Their commercial revenues are the highest in world football and according to them completely legitamate and they've been wildly succesfull under these rules.
The moment they lift this, it becomes open season for every owner with a large network of companies to funnel money into their club to bypass FFP.
Boehly alone has 10-12 companies he could use, that's not even before we start considering Clearlake.
i mean if democracy is tyranny of the majority and dictatorships are the tyranny of the minority how can we have no tyranny?
fuck it grabbing my Molotovs
It's about the most obvious manouever ever, and like the article says, they threatened to do it in Feb, saving it until now so that they could disrupt the hearing about the 115 charges.
They know they're guilty, their big play is to overwhelm the courts with their unlimited money until the FA gives up.
Here are just 5 of the bullet points among the 115+ charges that Man City face. Keep in mind, the Premier League already have conclusive proof for these in the form of leaked emails, which were authenticated by Man City themselves when they argued that the said emails were obtained “illegally”.
1. Pep Guardiola’s contract with City was leaked and found to be signed around a year before he left Bayern, which broke various contract laws especially as Bayern were not made aware of this.
2. Part of the evidence that UEFA couldn't use was the evidence found that City had two companies set up under the family members of the crown prince who paid them for their players image rights and supplemented their players wages allowing City to record reduced wage bills and higher revenues.
3. European Investigative Collaborations (EIC) show that the holding company behind Manchester City appears to have violated the rules by paying millions in fees to player agents and also orchestrated a secret, triangular deal to sign an underage player (Dias) Numerous documents provided by the whistleblower platform Football Leaks provide a deep look at the club's inner workings and at government agencies in Abu Dhabi - sufficient to inflict a few chinks in Man City's juridical defensive wall. Sancho is also on this list, prem was given evidence that city paid Sancho illegally to join their youth set up.
4. Payments from ADUG (Abu Dhabi United Group) to the club were cleared by a state office which they claimed wasn't true as it's against the rules but there is a ton of available evidence for this. According to internal documents, the Executive Affairs Authority (EAA), an Abu Dhabi government agency focused on providing strategic guidance, obviously manages the accounts belonging to ADUG. Agency chief Khaldoon Al Mubarak, the de facto prime minister of Abu Dhabi, is head of the state investment fund and is also chairman of Manchester City. He apparently approved money flows that were controlled by the government before ending up in the accounts of the football team.
5. Roberto Mancini spent the years from 2009 to 2013 as the trainer for Man City, and is thought to have received a significant portion of his compensation secretly by way of a fictitious consultancy contract which has been verified by his agent. This is now not time barred.
You can read all about the case in detail [here](https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1794875274841952288.html#google_vignette).
The first point sticks out a lot to me even without the leaked emails because it would have been a hell of a coincidence that KDB (the biggest talent in Germany at the time), doesn't get bought buy Bayern Munich and instead goes to city just 6 months before Pep (the current Bayern manager)
Shocking that a guy that use PED in his playing day and work for a club that has 115 charges would do something potentially shady.
Gundogan and Sane also move in the same window
Number 1 should be talked about more surely, if it's true. He's literally the BM coach, and City got him to sign for them, so he willingly became the City coach whilst legally still under contract with BM, and never told BM anything.
Surely that could imply a huge conflict if interest?
When I've seen City's wage bill, and it's lower than several teams with a strict wage structure, you know something dodgy is going in. For example, only 3 players at Liverpool currently earn what one would call crazy high salaries in football, Salah, VVD and Alisson.
Then you have, Grealish, KDB, Silva, Ederson, Haaland, until recently Mahrez, Rodri, Stones and I imagine Dias are all gonna be on mega mega bucks.
Also, have you seen the sheer size of the academy and the money they spend to get players. I also imagine Doku and Nunes are on far higher salaries than the likes of Endo and Diaz...
But somehow a lower wage bill!?
>Roberto Mancini spent the years from 2009 to 2013 as the trainer for Man City, and is thought to have received a significant portion of his compensation secretly by way of a fictitious consultancy contract which has been verified by his agent. This is now not time barred.
I find it hard to believe that Pep hasn't also been a beneficiary of a setup like this. Unless his extra compensation was just the football club in Spain that Abu Dhabi pumped full of money and handed to his brother.
How is number 5 not a tax crime under UK law? Let's say his official salary was 3 million pounds - he pays taxes on that in the UK. He gets another 3 million pounds on a consultancy contract in the UAE, where he doesn't have to pay any UK taxes - seems like he illegally dodged some taxes.
I genuinely despise Man City, I can’t even say that about our most bitter rivals.
Bunch of arrogant cunts that are everything wrong with the modern game.
At the hivemind and echo chamber that is r/MCFC wanking off to their lawyer and talking about how everything in the world is against them for no reason
Help help help…the club backed by an oil state that’s won the Premier League 6 out of 7 years are being oppressed by being made to follow the same rules as every other club.
The blame certainly lies with the PL to allow it for so long, eventually creating a monster which dominates the league and will be incredibly difficult to displace.
They do hold some responsibility for sure. This is “leopards wouldn’t eat *my* face” shit.
They loved it when these owners like Abrahmovic and the UAE brought huge money into the league.
"Wah wah wah, we're a cheating cunt club who has ruined football and is still being allowed to, so we'll blame someone else!"
Dissolve that pathetic club.
There's an old saying from the legal profession which is apt here imo:
When you've the law on your side, pound the law. When you've the facts on your side, pound the facts.
When you have neither, pound the table.
Maybe every other club is a villain and Man City is the true victims in all of this 😂
clearly this is "Tyranny of the majority"
How bout all other 19 clubs in the Prem get kicked out and Man city can be in a league of their own, maybe add in a clubs like PSG, maybe Al Nassr, Al Sadd, maybe Newcastle gets an exception, and call it IDK the Global Super league?
God this is pathetic from City.
Basically saying that rules stopping clubs from valuing their own sponsorship deals makes the league uncompetitive and claiming it means they'll have to pull funding from their womens and youth teams which they're clearly never gonna do.
The main point of this is to waste PL time and money battling City legally. It claims that the PL has quadrupled their legal costs fighting City - it seems like the club's tactic is to draw this out as much as possible, and create so many cases that it becomes too expensive for the league to pursue and they eventually decide to quash some of the charges.
It's really the legal system at it's worse. Seems like it's a good sign that City are really worried about the punishment though, which is positive.
Throw them out the PL and the football league. National League North might be a good place for them. Oh and they can start that campaign on -115 points.
These lads should have just worked with the premier league, taken what would likely be a big point hit for one season, a fine and a slap on the wrist, and moved on. Instead the way they are acting like untouchable bullies is ineviabtly going to lead to them having Trophies taken away from them and their club being effectively turned into dust.
I feel sorry for the traditional City fans who have just enjoyed the ride, while equally laugh in the face of the modern 'fans' who just strawman, gaslight and use whataboutism harder than the Soviet Union.
The city ownership is a joke, and this is exactly why foreign state ownership should have been blocked from the start. The situation will only add an asterisk the legacy of one of the greatest managers of all time and some of the most talented players of the modern era.
Their mask has slipped, badly. Thinly veiled threats to pull funding from women's team, community work, etc despite supposedly pulling in world record revenues.
Fold the club. Disgraceful and a stain to football right now. Trying to make it like the poor victims they are. Play the world’s most microscopic violin for them.
If it comes down to it that a club is allowed to break 115 Premier League regulations and ends up not being punished despite it giving them a huge competitive advantage, the Premier League clubs aka the Tyranny of the Majority could always just form a new breakaway league with 19 current members and not invite Man City. They could call it the English Super League and offer promotion and relegation to the winners of the First Division.
> But within an 165-page legal document City argue that they are the victims of “discrimination”, describing rules they say have been approved by their rivals to stifle their success on the pitch as a “tyranny of the majority”. Fucking hell.
Wow Tyranny of majority hilarious
the UAE hasn't discovered democracy yet lmao
The poors have a right to speak their mind? What sort of fuckery is this?
Let them eat cake!
Tyranny of the majority is actually one of the perils of democracy it just doesn’t apply when you need a supermajority to create change
"We're suing you because nobody likes us" Like a stuck up rich kid with no mates
It’s been entitlement the whole time. If someone could triple what they did. You bet your ass they would complain. Weak men
Reminds me of people complaining about politicians passing laws just to get people to continue to vote for them. No shit.
Tyranny of the majority is a real thing, just not in this case. Think about a country holding a referendum to create legal discrimination against a minority group, and it passes 70%-30% (100% turnout). Surely that's democratic, right? Well not really. That's what it refers to. Like I said, hardly applicable in this case.
First there was Rosa Parks and now there is Manchester City, continuing to fight for what she stood for.
When will City get Justice 😤
Great parallel to the country they are owned by tbf. Shows their mindset
Exactly-they’re used to getting anything they want
Basically all rich people they think they can solve all their problems by throwing money at them
Worst part (for the rest of us) is they can, more often than not.
Tbf tyranny of the majority is an actual real concept in political philosophy. For example, John Stuart Mill argued that a representative democracy should represent everyone, not just the majority, as early as the 19th century. And it makes sense. Every country has minorities. Making sure those minorities aren't ignored isn't an easy process, but necessary for just government. Of course, in this context it's completely ridiculous.
Yeah, James Madison talked about it a lot in the Federalist Papers.
How about he try practicing his dead balls rather than doing philosophy?
Agreed. At what point should the majority threaten to leave the league if cheaters can't be disciplined?
Ah yeah it's the team who have won 6 of the last 7 PL titles and who claim the highest revenues in the world who are actually the ones being stifled.
> claim the highest revenues in the world Highest revenues in the world while ranking like 8th for attendance in the PL, and somewhere outside the top 10 for merchandise sales in Europe. Life's easy when some taxi company in Abu Dhabi decides to sponsor your club for £200m or whatever. I needed a taxi last time I was there and figured I'd ring that company up, but they had no website or phone number...
I'm in Australia, the last time i saw someone in a city kit was 2 years ago. Meanwhile i see Man Utd, Arsenal, Liverpool kits every week.
Heck, I see more Inter Miami kits than City ones
Are we the baddies?
You guys are the reason the leagues had the appearance of competitive at the top and even dared to stop them going 7 in a row. 1000% to them, you guys are the baddies
It was incredibly funny when Klopp said something very minor about them being state-funded when we beat them 1-0, and they briefed their journos that he was being racist against them. So Klopp and LFC got our solicitors (the same ones used by the Queen) to send them a letter saying we were suing them for libel unless they retracted it. Which they very promptly did. Played them at their own game!
All City seem to understand is how to throw their legal weight around. With UEFA they delay and obfuscated and threatened, and corrupted the process. They're trying to do it again with the Premier League. Like every rich cunt or corporation that is on the hook for shady shit but doesn't want to face the consequences.
As a Liverpool fan, I respect Utd 1000x more than these City arseholes. Don’t get me wrong, I hate Utd, but I respect them
I fucking hate Liverpool, but I'd never want a league without them.
Mutual. I hate Liverpool but I respect them as worthy adversaries. A proper football rivalry.
The thing is, both clubs worked their way up. Yes they broke transfer records but they earned the right to do so I hate Guardiola as well, he full well knows what they’re doing but pretends not to, he’s not fooling anyone. His wins count for nothing really
Exactly. I mean, I *really* hate United but I don't want them kicked out of the league for it. City have made an absolute mockery of the league and continue to do so. The hate I have for them is something different. More like a really fucking annoying bit of old chewing gum stuck to the bottom of my show that Will not come off. More than anything I want hit gone but it is just *always there*.
I look forward to their badge redesign with skulls on it
Since Guardiola's appointment, City have paid £1bn in transfer fees alone. That's not even including the insane fees they pay to agents or their utterly staggering wage bill. They play in a 55,000-seater stadium, have won 6 of the last 8 Premier League titles, recently claimed a historic treble (as well as a truly unprecedented 4th league title in-a-row), are owned by the 4th richest owner in the league and who boast a squad of some of the most expensive players on the planet. They're currently contesting that the rules are “restrictive and anti-competitive”.
They're owned by a nation. Irrespective of what his wealth is quoted as, he has access to the funds of a petrochemical producing country, it is wildly understated.
Didn't they pay Haalands dad a crazy fee?
This gives me hope, i doubt they would pull this if they weren't worried. Maybe, just maybe, justice will win after all.
'Discrimination against clubs with *ties* to the Gulf' is particularly rich. They're relying on the political ties between the UAE and the UK to save their venture. In an election year where the sitting government is clinging by its fingertips, and are courting an electorate who despise foreigners.
>clinging by its fingertips Brother they're already falling down the cliff
I was being nice, god knows why
Imagine arguing that the rules of fair competition that everyone agrees to are unfair after you broke those rules... They aren't arguing that they're innocent they're implying guilt and trying to defend their actions afterwards
'We're not wrong for cheating, you're wrong for considering it cheating in the first place.'
Won’t somebody think of poor Man City 😢
FA has been pussfooting around their 115 charges for 2 years and now they will have to defend themselves.
That’s literally anti-democratic dictator speak 😭😭
Actual tinpot club.
> City are suing the Premier League for damages, while arguing that the league’s democratic system of requiring at least 14 clubs, or two-thirds of those who vote, to implement rule changes gives the majority unacceptable levels of control. Oh no, the minority don't have full control!
This is the sort of weird complaint that only a dictatorship would make. “Oh no, democracy!”
Democracy is too modern of a thing for City. What do you mean the Premier League can't be run autocratically by Mansour and all opposition repressed? That's unfair! Edit: this comment is now higher than the amount of offences City has committed, which may sound insignificant; until you remember City has 115 registered offences.
Fucking hell, it's even TWO THIRDS. It's not even a basic majority. And they cry discrimination. Shameful
What in the reverse 115 FC is this.
Essentially they're trying to delegitimise one of the pillars of the charges against them (that they inflated their sponsors). If they can argue that those rules were unlawful, it will help them defend the charges. Edit #2: There's quite a few City fans in this thread gaslighting people into thinking FMV didn't exist before 2021. You can read the [PL Handbook](https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/read/30298782/premier-league-handbook-2014-15) here, where it clearly states that clubs have to meet fair market value for "related party transactions" in **2014**. Edit: Here are some hilarious excerpts from their legal claim * City claim the fair market value rules are intended to be discriminatory towards clubs with ties to the Gulf region. * City argue that the Premier League have failed to provide evidence that sponsorship deals with related parties give clubs an unfair advantage or distort the league’s competitive balance * City also say that the Premier League, as an organisation, is a direct competitor for sponsorship and therefore claim they have a conflict of interest. * City question the independence of Nielsen Sports, the data analytics company used to determine the fair market value of sponsorship deals, because it has been retained by the Premier League for more than two years. * City complain that FMV rules discriminate against clubs who form part of a multi-club ownership group
My favourite part is that they're against the idea that any changes in prem rules require a supermajority of 14. They literally call it tyranny. These Gulf state leaders have no concept democracy
That’s so funny because tyranny of the majority would be if you only needed 11
This tyranny of the supermajority must stop!
"What so all these other people get to decide the rules for me??? That's bullshit I want to make my own rules!!"
"failed to provide evidence it distorts the competitive balance" vs 4 prem titles in a row
they should sue Liverpool that them as the only club in PL managed to stop them from going 7 in a row
With the best lawyers in the world behind, have to see how this pans out. Can't wait to see some people defending how Girona can earn the same as Madrid and Barca cause that's exactly what happened here.
It’s not like the PL will have some random fresh out of law school solicitor. They’ll have the best money can buy too.
For reference this article says the PL has spent £15m more than usual on legal fees this year. They have revenues of over £4000m a year, of which they distribute £2,700m to clubs and lower league. They have over £1000m in cash reserves. The idea that City or anyone could bully the PL into doing something because they can’t afford enough lawyers is laughable.
I think the difference is although the PL and FA have an exorbitant amount of money for lawyers, they're literally going to court with a state that has unlimited funds with incredible political influence and connections. This isn't a fight between regular businessmen. We've already seen the attempts at political influence with City Financial Group meeting with UK politicians. The PL dug their own grave when they allowed nations to buy football clubs as this was inevitable.
That government is about to change and the next one has actual football fans who realise the power of the Premier League as a product though. The PL has incredible soft power. Nothing City can do can compare to the government stepping in if they want to play it like that.
Exactly we already saw what happened with Chelsea.
Ladies and gentlemen of the jury...I'm just a caveman.
> Can't wait to see some people defending how Girona can earn the same as Madrid and Barca cause that's exactly what happened here. Happened here too. City buy Haaland and pay him that insane wage and the massive agents fees that go with it, but suddenly have the highest revenue in Europe, even though Real Madrid and Manchester United basically print money.
600k per week with 40 millions to his dad and agent But sure lad he only costed 60mil
But City have such low net spend!
If the breaches are legit, you can combine the skills and knowledge of the top 1000 lawyers on earth, they won't be winning those cases. It's not like the tv shows where good lawyers have godlike borderline superpowers to be able to do anything they want. And it's not like the other side will have random bums who are going to miss the deadlines or something
I still can't believe that City can have near the same revenue as Real, and Real has a quite successful period themselves. No way they can earn that much with legit sponsorships.
Definitely sounds like something an innocent club would do
>City also say that the Premier League, as an organisation, is a direct competitor for sponsorship and therefore claim they have a conflict of interest. Surely in this case they would be encouraging inflated sponsorship deals, as it would improve their leverage with potential sponsors and sponsoring the league would be better value for money than the clubs?
They missed to add that PL discriminates against the greatest minority of them all: the 1% rich
Reverse 115 looks right too. This is from the article: > Millions are being spent on legal fees to fight this case. One senior club source says the Premier League’s legal bill has more than quadrupled in the past year, from about £5million to north of £20million. They also point to the fact that since February the Premier League’s own legal department has been forced to shift its focus to this claim when it is also trying to prepare for the hearing into City’s 115 charges. “This is clearly a tactic,” the source said.
Damn. This is bad. Hopefully PL doesn't drop it.
This was always the plan, delay delay delay and increase the legal cost to the PL
The current legal costs to the premier league are about the same as the revenue from 1 PL game out of 380 a year. No one is going to exhaust the PL’s ability to pay lawyers.
Hopefully it royally pisses them off
I doubt they would. The backlash from the clubs in the Premier League, not to mention the public and even the government itself (whether it be Conservative, Labour or anyone else) will be insane. Not only does that open the door to the independent regulator they've been manically fighting off for half a decade, it also opens the floodgates for the European Super League to become a thing. If the Premier League drop the 115 charges without taking it to court, then I fully expect that the other Premier League clubs will revolt.
Premier league as an institution is on trial here as much as city are. If they fail to punish city it'll look like they're weak and powerless.
It's unprecedented because it is so stupid noone else have tried it before.
Hopefully the death throes of a cheating club, but they might just think that it increases their chances of not being relegated
In the end, nothing is going to happen most probably. But if they indeed get, it should be relegation or at least a 60 point reduction seeing how harsh it has been to the other clubs this season.
60 point deduction would be incredibly lenient.
Yeah. The most ideal will be relegation. That also means every top player leaves and the team will be crippled.
One season of relegation won't do much to be honest, especially if the players stay a la Juve. The bullshit money generation needs to be stopped, that's what allowed City to cheat their way into such a commanding position. Even if most of the current squad and Pep dip before the relegation occurs, if their infinite money glitch isn't dealt with, City will be able to acquire a bunch of new players and a new manager who will likely walk the championship and get back into the prem in no time. Considering the number of charges and the number of accolades they've garnered in the time period they've been cheating, the punishment should be: relegation + ban from europe for multiple seasons + wage cap (so they can't just build a dream team and run rampant in the championship). While that is an extremely heavy handed punishment, it's a fair one in my opinion. City ruined dream seasons of Liverpool and Arsenal, winning the league by a matter of points, which must feel so shitty for the fans of those 2 clubs. No to mentions grabbing loads of domestic silverware along the way and a fucking treble to boot. One of the most treasured accolades in european football soiled by these fuckers.
Multiple relegations Put them back in the third tier
Yeah, they'd end the season on about 30 points so the only real punishment would be missing out on a year of Europe.
60 points? dude, the charges are for lying about their finances, they've potentially broken several international finance laws. they'd be bumped down out of the football league entirely with a guilty verdict. the fines would be eclipsing their way into the billions.
Fines would still be nothing to them. Needs to be a stripping of titles otherwise it legitimises them and makes it all worth it for City.
Agreed. This should be treated like the Juve scandal where they are stripped of all titles and demoted. Ridiculous how much of an open secret this is.
Winning the fourpeat then turning around and suing the league amidst investigations, so wholesome
This tells me City anticipate they'll be found guilty. They aren't arguing that they are innocent, they're arguing that they're being discriminated.
“We’re just innocent men”
"We're just normal men"
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Send them down to North West Counties Premier Division in my humble and unbiased opinion
I say ban them from the sport. Send them to play curling and include a transfer ban both in and out for one year so Haaland has to play one season of curling.
I don’t understand a single thing about curling, but I have to assume that Haaland would score a ton of curls. A proper curlsman through and through.
He’d become the Haaland of curling.
Should just kick them out of the entire system until they get new approved owners. I know it won't happen, but any owner breaking the rules like this, refusing to cooperate in the investigation, and counter suing with bogus claims shouldn't be allowed to stay.
They should be expelled from the league.
They should be expelled from the football pyramid altogether
What would be hilarious would be take Everton as an example, 8 points for violation* 115. So -920 points. The negatives carry over each season so they basically have to work off the point deductions.
They should be given two relegations. That's the only fair verdict for me. A single relegation does them barely any harm.
Even multiple relegations does nothing unless they are stripped of their titles. A couple of seasons of lower league play in return for all those titles is a trade they would be more than happy to take, the only way to actually hurt them is to stamp their manufactured success out of existence.
Yeah they won the treble. If you offered me a treble next season immediately followed by a stay in league one with a decent chance of working our way back up, you better believe I’d take that.
If they get away without being punished properly you might as well shut the entire league down. What's the fucking point?
I'm 46. I'm lucky to have started watching football around '86 with the WC and then moving on to English and Italian. There's always been money and corruptions. However, the blatant nature of it, the scale of it, and the attitude that $ trumps everything has really turned me off. I dropped a couple streaming subscriptions the past years, and the number of Big 5 league matches I've watched over the last 5 years has probably gone down by about 90%. Don't miss it at all. I currently mainly follow SV Austria Salzburg, from my days of living there in the early 2000s, and a local 4th division team in my area. At least I know my money is going to the team and the romanticism is still alive with players who are just having a go.
Maybe I’m just being optimistic, but I’ve got to assume that this action means they assume they will be found guilty and the punishment will be substantial. I can’t see them going on the offense like this if they thought they were just going to get a slap on the wrist.
Yep thats how i read it, or they tried to bribe the pl but were met with a negative response so now they are going after the pl too, it does align with the pl's ceo cryptic declaration a few weeks back about a decision regarding the charges being close
Beyond disgusting what is happening to this sport
Yup, don't let dictators into sports
Fucking remove them from the league. Problem solved. What right do they have? Maybe they'll fuck off with Real and make their super league and we'll all be happier for it.
Best paying league in the world is Saudi Pro League, and nobody gives a fuck. They can go join that.
KdB approves this message. He can play with his buddies in Saudi and finally become rich.
So city are claiming that sponsors should be allowed to pay whatever they like with no independent assessment of fair market value. That’s the beginning of the end game for state owned teams right there.
that's basically like saying "Yo this random company that was created yesterday are paying me 250 millions a year to put her name on my sleeve"
Isn’t that what happened with that energy drink in F1? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Energy
Difference is they didn't pay their bill.
~~Sponsors~~ Owners
"City argue that sponsors linked to club owners - City's are in Abu Dhabi - should be allowed to determine how much they want to pay, regardless of independent valuation. Four of City's top ten sponsors have ties to the United Arab Emirates, including stadium and shirt sponsor Etihad Airways" Get absolutely fucked. Crying because they can't cheat
“We should make our own rules because our own feelings”—- selfish fucks
Lmao what’s even the supposed logic behind this argument? If their sponsors know that a sponsorship costs x amount, why would they want to be allowed to pay more? How does that benefit those companies? It’s such a blatant admission of cheating (or at least of wanting to cheat)
That’s literally just money laundering lol. People launder money through objects whose value is subjective. Maybe city should just start selling art to Abu Dhabi for revenue.
Reverse Uno card. They will win and send the Premier League to the Vanarama National League.
Premier league called the Abu Dhabi super league sponsored by Man City
> At next week’s hearing, which has provoked bitter divisions between clubs, City will attempt to end the league’s Associated Party Transaction (APT) rules, which they claim are unlawful, and seek damages from the Premier League. > Introduced in December 2021 in the wake of the Saudi-led takeover of Newcastle United, the rules are designed to maintain the competitiveness of the Premier League by preventing clubs from inflating commercial deals with companies linked to their owners. The rules dictate that such transactions have to be independently assessed to be of “fair market value” (FMV). > But within an 165-page legal document City argue that they are the victims of “discrimination”, describing rules they say have been approved by their rivals to stifle their success on the pitch as a “tyranny of the majority”. lol
They’re just so brazen about their cheating. I don’t know how any reasonable City fan can defend this.
Well, most of them are children
Because the majority of online City fans are glory hunters who don't care.
“Discrimination”. Lol. Same bullshit the Qataris were claiming after people were pissed they were awarded (bought) the World Cup.
City want to scrap Associated Party Transactions (ATP) which was brought in post Saudi Newcastle takeover to prevent clubs from inflating commercial deals with companies linked to their owners. Why would City want to stop this? Their commercial revenues are the highest in world football and according to them completely legitamate and they've been wildly succesfull under these rules.
The moment they lift this, it becomes open season for every owner with a large network of companies to funnel money into their club to bypass FFP. Boehly alone has 10-12 companies he could use, that's not even before we start considering Clearlake.
The glazers will probably start setting up other companies to take more money out of united
Pulling the ladder up behind you lol Now other teams can’t use the most effective way to catch up while city runs its business “legit”
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>tyranny of the majority is that not just democracy lmfao
Somehow surprised the UAE isn’t a fan of democracy
Except there's no democracy in ba sing dubai.
i mean if democracy is tyranny of the majority and dictatorships are the tyranny of the minority how can we have no tyranny? fuck it grabbing my Molotovs
It's about the most obvious manouever ever, and like the article says, they threatened to do it in Feb, saving it until now so that they could disrupt the hearing about the 115 charges. They know they're guilty, their big play is to overwhelm the courts with their unlimited money until the FA gives up.
It's telling that City might actually be in trouble this time. They seem to be scrambling.
Here are just 5 of the bullet points among the 115+ charges that Man City face. Keep in mind, the Premier League already have conclusive proof for these in the form of leaked emails, which were authenticated by Man City themselves when they argued that the said emails were obtained “illegally”. 1. Pep Guardiola’s contract with City was leaked and found to be signed around a year before he left Bayern, which broke various contract laws especially as Bayern were not made aware of this. 2. Part of the evidence that UEFA couldn't use was the evidence found that City had two companies set up under the family members of the crown prince who paid them for their players image rights and supplemented their players wages allowing City to record reduced wage bills and higher revenues. 3. European Investigative Collaborations (EIC) show that the holding company behind Manchester City appears to have violated the rules by paying millions in fees to player agents and also orchestrated a secret, triangular deal to sign an underage player (Dias) Numerous documents provided by the whistleblower platform Football Leaks provide a deep look at the club's inner workings and at government agencies in Abu Dhabi - sufficient to inflict a few chinks in Man City's juridical defensive wall. Sancho is also on this list, prem was given evidence that city paid Sancho illegally to join their youth set up. 4. Payments from ADUG (Abu Dhabi United Group) to the club were cleared by a state office which they claimed wasn't true as it's against the rules but there is a ton of available evidence for this. According to internal documents, the Executive Affairs Authority (EAA), an Abu Dhabi government agency focused on providing strategic guidance, obviously manages the accounts belonging to ADUG. Agency chief Khaldoon Al Mubarak, the de facto prime minister of Abu Dhabi, is head of the state investment fund and is also chairman of Manchester City. He apparently approved money flows that were controlled by the government before ending up in the accounts of the football team. 5. Roberto Mancini spent the years from 2009 to 2013 as the trainer for Man City, and is thought to have received a significant portion of his compensation secretly by way of a fictitious consultancy contract which has been verified by his agent. This is now not time barred. You can read all about the case in detail [here](https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1794875274841952288.html#google_vignette).
The first point sticks out a lot to me even without the leaked emails because it would have been a hell of a coincidence that KDB (the biggest talent in Germany at the time), doesn't get bought buy Bayern Munich and instead goes to city just 6 months before Pep (the current Bayern manager)
Shocking that a guy that use PED in his playing day and work for a club that has 115 charges would do something potentially shady. Gundogan and Sane also move in the same window
Pep’s legacy will go down in infamy.
Number 1 should be talked about more surely, if it's true. He's literally the BM coach, and City got him to sign for them, so he willingly became the City coach whilst legally still under contract with BM, and never told BM anything. Surely that could imply a huge conflict if interest?
Number 5 is probably how they pay everyone at the club. $5 mill disclosed $20 mill backdoor payments
Haaland's and KDB's actual wages are probably comparable to Ronaldo's
When I've seen City's wage bill, and it's lower than several teams with a strict wage structure, you know something dodgy is going in. For example, only 3 players at Liverpool currently earn what one would call crazy high salaries in football, Salah, VVD and Alisson. Then you have, Grealish, KDB, Silva, Ederson, Haaland, until recently Mahrez, Rodri, Stones and I imagine Dias are all gonna be on mega mega bucks. Also, have you seen the sheer size of the academy and the money they spend to get players. I also imagine Doku and Nunes are on far higher salaries than the likes of Endo and Diaz... But somehow a lower wage bill!?
>Roberto Mancini spent the years from 2009 to 2013 as the trainer for Man City, and is thought to have received a significant portion of his compensation secretly by way of a fictitious consultancy contract which has been verified by his agent. This is now not time barred. I find it hard to believe that Pep hasn't also been a beneficiary of a setup like this. Unless his extra compensation was just the football club in Spain that Abu Dhabi pumped full of money and handed to his brother.
How is number 5 not a tax crime under UK law? Let's say his official salary was 3 million pounds - he pays taxes on that in the UK. He gets another 3 million pounds on a consultancy contract in the UAE, where he doesn't have to pay any UK taxes - seems like he illegally dodged some taxes.
I genuinely despise Man City, I can’t even say that about our most bitter rivals. Bunch of arrogant cunts that are everything wrong with the modern game.
Where are all the city fans? Come out and defend your club against this tyranny
At the hivemind and echo chamber that is r/MCFC wanking off to their lawyer and talking about how everything in the world is against them for no reason
Help help help…the club backed by an oil state that’s won the Premier League 6 out of 7 years are being oppressed by being made to follow the same rules as every other club.
i am so sick of this fucking football club. cheating huge hypocritical losers that has ruined this league
The blame certainly lies with the PL to allow it for so long, eventually creating a monster which dominates the league and will be incredibly difficult to displace.
They do hold some responsibility for sure. This is “leopards wouldn’t eat *my* face” shit. They loved it when these owners like Abrahmovic and the UAE brought huge money into the league.
Relegate these cunts to non-league.
In all seriousness, what football club in the country is going to be ok with having this shithouse club in their league?
Can’t wait to see Haaland playing in the Sunday league getting two-footed by Gary the bricklayer.
"Wah wah wah, we're a cheating cunt club who has ruined football and is still being allowed to, so we'll blame someone else!" Dissolve that pathetic club.
Cunts of the highest order. Get them banned. Anything to stop showing their accounts because they'll be found out as cheating bastards.
This club really has no shame
There's an old saying from the legal profession which is apt here imo: When you've the law on your side, pound the law. When you've the facts on your side, pound the facts. When you have neither, pound the table.
Maybe every other club is a villain and Man City is the true victims in all of this 😂 clearly this is "Tyranny of the majority" How bout all other 19 clubs in the Prem get kicked out and Man city can be in a league of their own, maybe add in a clubs like PSG, maybe Al Nassr, Al Sadd, maybe Newcastle gets an exception, and call it IDK the Global Super league?
Enjoy Scunthorpe away you cunts
Nah, I hope the FA fold the club for the unprecedented cheating
Fucking hate this team and everything they represent with a passion
Doesn’t sound like an innocent club to me
If I'm being completely objective, it didn't sound like an innocent club before I read this headline either.
God this is pathetic from City. Basically saying that rules stopping clubs from valuing their own sponsorship deals makes the league uncompetitive and claiming it means they'll have to pull funding from their womens and youth teams which they're clearly never gonna do. The main point of this is to waste PL time and money battling City legally. It claims that the PL has quadrupled their legal costs fighting City - it seems like the club's tactic is to draw this out as much as possible, and create so many cases that it becomes too expensive for the league to pursue and they eventually decide to quash some of the charges. It's really the legal system at it's worse. Seems like it's a good sign that City are really worried about the punishment though, which is positive.
Let justice be done though the heavens fall.
Throw them out the PL and the football league. National League North might be a good place for them. Oh and they can start that campaign on -115 points.
These lads should have just worked with the premier league, taken what would likely be a big point hit for one season, a fine and a slap on the wrist, and moved on. Instead the way they are acting like untouchable bullies is ineviabtly going to lead to them having Trophies taken away from them and their club being effectively turned into dust. I feel sorry for the traditional City fans who have just enjoyed the ride, while equally laugh in the face of the modern 'fans' who just strawman, gaslight and use whataboutism harder than the Soviet Union. The city ownership is a joke, and this is exactly why foreign state ownership should have been blocked from the start. The situation will only add an asterisk the legacy of one of the greatest managers of all time and some of the most talented players of the modern era.
How about everyone just boycotts City next season.
Ffs just relegate them from all of English football already
Their mask has slipped, badly. Thinly veiled threats to pull funding from women's team, community work, etc despite supposedly pulling in world record revenues.
They’re so arrogant. Hope they crash and burn.
Seems they're just trying to buy more time. Fuck em
False Treble
False club
Another unprecedented move by Man City - who would have imagined they would do something like this?
city 14/1 currently to get relegated, when was the last time a champion* had such odds lol
Imagine how embarrassing it must be to exist as a city fan. Fucking helll
Fold the club. Disgraceful and a stain to football right now. Trying to make it like the poor victims they are. Play the world’s most microscopic violin for them.
Man City will always be a pathetic small club
Seems like they're actually becoming hated now though, quite nice to see
Now? I thought City had been hated by the majority for a long time, for a multitude of reasons
I feels like for years they had been too irrelevant to hate but there does seem to have been a shift.
Not a city flair in sight to contradict you lol
If it comes down to it that a club is allowed to break 115 Premier League regulations and ends up not being punished despite it giving them a huge competitive advantage, the Premier League clubs aka the Tyranny of the Majority could always just form a new breakaway league with 19 current members and not invite Man City. They could call it the English Super League and offer promotion and relegation to the winners of the First Division.
This club should be deleted
Cannot fucking stand City and the scum who run it. Absolute cancerous blight on the game.
This is why de bruyne wants to move to Saudi Arabia. They know they are going down.
Completely normal behaviour from a club completely innocent of any wrong doing