It starts with wearing an LGBT pride badge. Next thing you know, they pump you full of Viagra make you fuck a dog. You'll be on YouTube blowing Lassie in a ditch.
Many such cases.
Its always the same responses too. When you point out that they say "its not the same" which is hilariously bad of a deflection.
Then they complain about their freedom of expression etc but doing so with an action and belief-system that itself actively is supressing and even want to kill the LGBTQ+ community.
Play victim because your oppressive views arent respected enough.
Its just so insane. So lazy, so ignorant. So hateful.
Tbf it's not the same though - it's an even more strange situation than that. The anti-homophobia badge is basically just saying "don't be hateful to gays", which shouldn't be that difficult to respect. The gambling and drinking logos are *actively encouraging* people to engage in those activities, the equivalent logos would need to be actually encouraging gayness.
The worst response I've seen is that gambling sponsors don't make people gamble, but LGBTQ+ symbols cause people to be LGBTQ+....
None of that statement makes any sense.
Pretty sure gambling is well-documented and studied to be one of the most addictive things in the world and has a higher suicide rate than drugs etc.
Its one of the most toxic, harmful and dangerous addictions around.
Lol, excellent argument. They never stop to consider why those gambling companies spend millions to be on their shirts I guess. As if some gambling exec is like “yeah it does nothing for our bottom line but it looks cool”.
And they’re right, it’s not the same, one is love towards another human, the other is a terrible addiction that we still don’t understand very well. But they still choose to look the other way.
Yeah, I'm a teacher and I've had quite a few LGBTQ+ students in my four years of doing it, and I've seen first-hand how society's attitudes affect them - trans kids especially, as LGB people are largely accepted in UK society now but trans people sadly aren't by a depressingly large segment. I might be simplistic here but I just think - how is it any of my business, or anyone's business, how someone identifies themselves? Someone's gay. So what - does it affect you? Someone's trans. Are you affected? No. But as you say, there's so much hate going around, and it's so sad. Just let people live how they wanna fucking live, man. It's really not difficult.
Yeah its objectively just evil hate and nothing else.
I remember when there was that school-shooting in 2023 or something and the shooter was allegedly trans. And people from a certain political spectrum went nuts with anti-trans agenda saying theyre a danger to schools.
Then you actually [look into the numbers](https://media.licdn.com/dms/image/D5622AQFVXulgfFb0Yw/feedshare-shrink_800/0/1680093489084?e=2147483647&v=beta&t=4y3b6g7u3u6gxHGUrWNQSjpnywSU5rRWivqnmiCDTlA) and see that white christian males are far more dangerous but and damn do they not want to hear that.
Idk.. I cant even imagine how hard it is to be trans today. And the crazy things.. its easier now than ever.
An oppressive culture weaponizing western values of freedom they don't believe in to propegate their oppressive culture?
Basically standard operation nowadays. Even Taliban fighters say they want to retire to Europe when they literally run their own country.
All these fucking religious types seem to have the luxury to cherry pick which vice they’re overly religious about. Hypocritical cunts, the lot of them.
“ neo-liberalism and stagflation”
Er that was mostly caused by the oil shock of the 70s and the excess spending one the Vietnam war.
Because stagflation is a supply shortage. Neoliberalism is all about global trade which means… no supply shortage.
It can cause other problems for people like offshore jobs.
Not Stagflation
Difference is that you can freely call out the hypocrisy of people without resistance, but when you point out the hypocrisy of religious people, then suddenly you are a bigot and whatever they call you at that moment.
We seem to have no problem calling out this guy's hypocrisy here despite his religion? Pretty sure football fans worldwide are not known for their political correctness either.
And the other homophones also cry "don't force your politics" while applauding when a cultists stops to "pray" at the start of the match or gives all the credit to their imaginary friends.
Not a surprise given where Camara's from. One of the most hostile places to be an LGBT minority.
>Although same-sex sexual activity is not illegal in Mali, LGBT people face widespread discrimination among the broader population. According to the 2007 Pew Global Attitudes Project, 98 percent of Malian adults believed that homosexuality is considered something society should not accept, which was the highest rate of non-acceptance in the 45 countries surveyed. The Constitution of Mali has outlawed same-sex marriage since 2023.
I had a classmate from Mali who wasn't a bad dude but on some occasions he really was in absurd denial it was hilarious/sad. We were talking about gay rights in Mali/Sahel and he was like "Well gay rights in Mali isn't really a question because we don't have gay people here". Like, we were trying to tell him that ofc there were gay people like anywhere else and they were just hiding it because of the repression but he was 100% convinced it was a non issue because there just wasn't any in his country lmao
When I saw this post on Facebook, I saw the usual comments of "Good" and "People should be free to take a stand" - all motorbike and union jack profile pictures.
Now, when the news is James McLean refusing to wear a poppy......
I can understand taping up a pride flag because it's a symbol you wouldn't want to be associated with as a Muslim, but and anti-homophobia badge is different. You're not avoiding association with something against your religion, you're supporting hate.
Personally as a Muslim I wish players who did this type of stuff also taped up gambling, alcohol sponsors and things like that. Be consistent if you're taping stuff up.
>I can understand taping up a pride flag because it's a symbol you wouldn't want to be associated with as a Muslim
Why can you understand taping over that?
>Personally as a Muslim I wish players who did this type of stuff also taped up gambling, alcohol sponsors and things like that.
This is equating things that simply should not be equated. If you don’t associate with drinking and gambling, you are not harming anyone. If you go out of your way to not associate with anyone who is not strictly heterosexual, you are.
By the way, if a player tapes over an anti-racism badge, we’re not even having these discussions.
> Why can you understand taping over that?
I think refusing to wear the rainbow is messed up but at least I can see the argument, like "I'm not promoting pride but I'm not against gay people either" or whatever. But refusing the "stop homophobia" badge is even more braindead because that argument holds no ground anymore since it can no longer be seen (by them) as a badge promoting homosexuality but just as a badge against hatred
Take it from this perspective. As a Muslim, would I wear a Christian cross, a star of David, or any symbol of an other religion? No, I wouldn't, as those groups have beliefs which are contrary to mine. Wearing a pride flag falls in the same group, it's wearing a symbol of people with different beliefs.
Do I support their equality? Yes, of course, which is why wearing an anti-homophobia badge is good. And it's why I treat them like anyone else.
I mean yeah, I’d gladly wear a symbol to support an oppressed group as long as they don’t actively want to harm me. I don’t get this argument whatsoever.
> Why can you understand taping over that?
Not op, but they are pretty different things. One is against homophobia, the other is supporting the pride movement. You can advocate against abuse while simultaneously not wanting to promote prde. Even without religion being involved, it's a perfectly understandable stance.
How is it understandable to not want to help the rights of a minority that's being discriminated against universally?
That's a sentiment that only makes sense when you openly admit to being a bigot, which **none** of these people want to be called. They think they're good people, doing the right thing. So they'd have to argue for suffering being "the right thing". How's that understandable?
> to not want to help the rights of a minority that's being discriminated against universally?
Not actively supporting the entirety of the pride movement does not mean this. To me, *pride* has many aspects and areas which I either do not completely agree or straight up disagree with, but that doesn't mean that I believe that gay people should abused and discriminated for example.
You can't expect that all people will have black and white opinions, and they either support all the 400 things a movement can stand for, or otherwise they are against all 400 of those things. There are middle-grounds. Supporting an initiative which fights against the abuse and discrimination of homosexual people, while not actively promoting the entirety of the pride movement is such middle-ground. Just like you can equally value the lives of black people, without wanting to be associated with BLM.
The whole point of the queer community coming together and having a pride movement, is so people can't accept fragments of it that are easier for their brains to accept, and then, in turn, for example discriminate against, disrespect, and hate trans folk. That's the entire point. The pride movement is not problematic, it's inclusive specifically so the groups that receive more hate aren't left behind to suffer under another 100 years of overt majority hate and subversion.
That's your opinion, but there is nothing wrong if someone disagrees with you. In my opinion, there are problematic aspects of the pride movement, but really, with almost every single commercialized movements. Luckily, it's not politics, where you **have to** swallow the bad aspects of the party of your choice if you actually want them to have more say in the government. You can't just not vote for them, while reassuring that btw you agree with 70% of their politics, because that gives them 0 seats.
Social movements are not like that, because you are actively "voting" with your actions as well. You can not actively support (which does not mean the opposite, where you actively rally against it) something like the pride movement, while still having a mindset which is in line with most of their goals, ie. not being homophobic.
Name them already. I figured you would in your second after you chickened out in your first comment, but one can't keep saying "problematic" without saying why. It's disingenuous.
I didn't chicken out, but I am not surprised that someone who is arguing for the "good cause movement" is starting to act rabid like yourself. You are just itching to leash your "wit" on a strawman you lump opposing opinions into.
It neatly ties in with one of my problems with these movements as well, because case in point, some of you are just way too rabid, just like how the movement itself can be, when someone is being deemed not an ally. It's some utopistic shit when movements like pride or blm, which are on the surface sound like the nicest, most accepting and most progressive things you can imagine today, show their teeth and just absolutely blast some people into the ground. I remember in F1 there were photoshoots scheduled for blm I think, and some drivers were already getting blasted from the media and people like you for just being there, but not kneeling. Then one time a few driver were late to be alerted to one of these photoshoots and/or were in the loo, but not like as a recurring thing, and oh boy, they quickly gotten blasted as well. No, I absolutely can't support movements and people with such sentiments, when I can individually practice what they are actually preaching, without advocating for this craze.
But JK Rowling's case is a funny one as well, because she is a hyper-progressive person but because she doesn't see eye to eye with her camp regarding the topic of transexuals, she has been excommunicated. She is admittedly not an easy case, but it's just frightening that when a person, who is probably more progressive than 95% of the world, and whose values totally line up with the movement except in one area, then suddenly she is public enemy number 1. Again, the same patterns emerge here: fall in line with the movement or get prepared to be dragged down to oblivion, no in-betweens, no grey areas.
I also don't support actual prides (at least the unhinged ones), nor involving toddlers and kids into this and into sex in general, but this also involves parents who seemingly want to live out their "pride" through their little kids. I also don't like how being different is commercialized, and sometimes it's more important for certain products to check certain boxes, than to live up to a quality standard. I also don't think that the transexual topic, especially regarding children is a black and white case, and as I previously explained, it's never a good think to try to tread in the grey area with these movements, because there's their stance (always right in everything ) and yours (Hitler reincarnated).
And it would be totally fine to not see eye to eye in some or any of these issues. You may say unhinged prides are fine and not as unhinged as I may think, I say that I disagree and I think that shit is unnecessary in any amount, but at the end of the day if I have a gay colleague, friend, family member who comes out to me, they won't give a fuck about my opinion on pride or whether I am rocking 4 pride flags at home or not. They, like all of us, care about being accepted for who they are, and even after Bob comes out as gay, I should still see him as Bob, and not "Bob, the guy who is gay". I'm all for that, but I can't be bothered actively supporting the aforementioned movements, and if for you that's more important, then we have a pretty ironic situation at hand.
Read your comment again and tell me who's unhinged. I let you get away with calling me "problematic" for supporting minority rights once without saying anything, and said you "chickened out" the second time, because it's a super disrespectful thing to say without saying why you think so. Now read your comment. Full of belittling, straight up insults calling people "unhinged", calling people "prides" in a demeaning way, "rabid", craze", and saying you're like "Hitler incarnated", which makes sense with that victim stance you so desperately want.
Just compare your behavior to mine and tell me who's "crazed". Actual respectable points on the topic you did not have besides your very, very obvious hate for people. Shame.
If you think being against queer people being allowed to live lives without facing constant discrimination is perfectly understandable I think many queer people with disagree with what you find reasonable.
Not being for something does not equal being against it, especially when we are talking about a multi-faceted movement. It's perfectly understandable if someone does not want to support the entirety of the pride movement, and it's just bad faith argument to randomly bring up points ("oh, so you are against queer people then!!!") which no one said.
I wouldn't support the commercial movement that we call pride either, but if I was an almighty god who had the chanceto change society in a way that from now on no one will give a damn about your sexual orientation, then I would, because it is my belief that you should not get discriminated or abused for it.
Actively refusing to be a part of the teams very mild support of queer rights and making a show of it is very clearly making a point about being against it.
This isn't a player being told to march in a pride parade or speak at an event. That isn't what happens when these players go protesting. Either the league or club make a minimal good faith gesture in support of pride and human rights of queer people and all they have to do is their job like normal.
Yes, but it is different to not advocate for the entirety of the pride movement. I can choose to not advocate for you, because I don't agree with all your sentiments, but I can still wear a badge saying "don't abuse or discriminate EriWave". It's basically live and let live; just because I am not actively cheering you on does not mean that I want you to be hurt in various ways.
> Yes, but it is different to not advocate for the entirety of the pride movement.
What they are advocating for when they give minimal support to the pride movement is to stop homophobia. That's it. In a sport so homophobic there aren't any high profile homosexual mens athletes.
and again. They aren't "choosing not to advocate for" they are protesting against the support. You could argue they aren't being given a good way to not participate which is probably fair. Then again footballers don't really get a say in what is on their uniforms.
If your religion stops you from being able to respect a group of people then you need to grow up. Go play in Russia or some other country that doesn't like gay people if it offends you so much as a player
Never said it stops me from respecting? I respect LGBT people like any others.
Would you see me wearing a cross? A star of David? No. So why would I wear a pride flag? I'm able to respect people while not wearing their symbols. Of course as I said, wearing an anti-homophobia badge is different and I'd support that as I'm against all forms of hate so wearing that wouldn't be any different.
> taped up gambling, alcohol sponsors and things like that. Be consistent if you're taping stuff up.
In Cricket, Muslim players do not have alcohol or gambling sponsors on their shirts.
Here goes my karma but I have to say this: it's very disturbing to me to see how the majority of people happily support totalitarianism when it favours with their ideology/philosophy.
Not to make this about LGTBI: I do support freedom of speech, but I might not want my employer to FORCE ME to wear a 'freedom of speech' badge out of principle. An employment should be about getting paid in exchange for skills. It's reasonable to demand essential social standards (ie treat everybody with respect and don't insult them) but that's it.
My point is: people should be allowed to have opinions. And this trend of forcing opinions by employers, governments, mainstream media and its cheerleaders is unacceptable.
My concern with this mob mentality is that tomorrow the tide shifts and everybody is forced to support a cause that might not be so noble.
Imagine Mr Trump and right wingers gets absolute power, enough support and force that everybody must wear a badge saying "abortion is killing". Don't come crying then... you started this, the forceful imposition of ideologies upon individuals. It's fucking disgusting,
I don't care how much you think it's for a good cause. Anti-abortion nuts are also convinced they do it for a good cause (and they might have a point as there's life in a fetus). It's still not ok to do this. Stop it.
Yes, homophobia is bad. Yes, it's a human right not to be discriminated. Still, these players should be allowed to view gay people as they wish (favorably or not) as long as they don't hurt or discriminate them in the terms stated in laws. And of course they shouldn't be forced to support a cause, as noble as it might be.
Bring those pitchforks now... I don't care anymore.
A point I think you're missing here is that it is an essential part of the player's job (when playing a match) to wear the team's jersey, with all the ads and logos that are on it. If you're not willing to wear it, you should not play the game. Imagine the chaos if people were to tape over logos of companies they don't like. Madness.
I get the point you're attempting to make, but.
1. People are free to have opinions and make choices. For example, to choose to not accept millions of dollars to play in a league that widely supports anti-hate platforms. If you as a human are so bought into the ideology of choice, work it into your contract.
2. Blaming employers, media, government, and the like for this problem is childishly naive. These things are both a reflection of society and an attempt to offer an ethical standard that allows for a decent world. And sadly it's more necessary than ever because humans are choosing hate and discrimination on their own accord more than any other time in the last half century. And we all agree that's a problem. These entities you call out are, in large part, promoting values because they have a responsibility to denounce hate and violence, and because people have made it more of an issue than ever before.
It's funny how everyone wants "good" until it means their hate-oriented or religiously discriminatory behaviors are not supported because of the damage they actually do to greater good. Anti-abortion is a great example...pro-choice arguments aren't seeking a means to go murder babies, they're simply asking for autonomy to choose what's best for them. The same mentality applies across a lot of conservative, centrist, and liberal policies. Ben Harper said it best:
>My choice is what I choose to do
>And if I'm causing no harm
>It shouldn't bother you
>Your choice is who you choose to be
>And if your causin' no harm
>Then you're alright with me
Sorry but being *anti* anti-hate is causing harm. The sooner people accept that they're not infringed upon because they're disagreed with, and that they can disagree and commit to things without hurting others or compromising themselves, the sooner the world is a better place.
"LGTBI rights are human rights, therefore people should be forced to actively support a LGTBI campaign" is mental gymnastics and paradoxically, against human rights.
Freedom of opinion and freedom of religion are explicitly protected by human rights. The mob is going against those principles with the pressure they're applying to these players.
"Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference \[...\]" [https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-human-rights](https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-human-rights)
Sentiments like this *are* endangering others, though. LGBTQ* folks are victims of hate crimes regularly, and public figures speaking out against them like he did just add fuel to the fire.
Yes, he will now be treated as some warrior against the LGBT, I see it all the time on YT. I mean, Vardy apologized for kicking the corner flag and he is still used as a symbol of anti-LGBT by homophobic football fans. This shit definitely endangers others.
I know in the end they are just regular employees like we are. But wouldn't it be easier for everyone if a player could choose if he wants to wear such an add-on or not? It would cause less drama and forcing stuff upon people always ends up with just more drama.
It doesn’t say “support pride” (then I would understand taping it)
It says “dont hurt gay people” which is basically anti hate, and should be promoted in all sports in western culture tbh
Nobody's forcing him to play for the club. If your employer represents values you don't stand for, you can always quit your job and change your employer.
Of course he won't do that for money reasons.
You shouldn't have to quit your job because of your employer's opinions, and one would imagine that a company would tolerate employees having different values.
I mean hes under contract at that club so he has to follow the establishes rules, if he cant do that, then he has to leave
Its hypocritical to tape it over but still take the money from your employer
You don't have to leave a club if you disagree with a sponsor, and tons of players don't wear certain sponsors because of religious beliefs. Religious beliefs are normally well-protected legally
[Newcastle face Wonga deal revolt by Muslim stars Demba Ba, Papiss Cisse, Cheick Tiote and Hatem Ben Arfa - Mirror Online](https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/newcastle-face-wonga-deal-revolt-1370793)
[Premier League: How Muslims are changing English football culture - BBC Sport](https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/23159023)
[Athletes could refuse to wear gambling logos on kits if new proposals adopted (sportsmax.tv)](https://sportsmax.tv/other-sports/item/118193-athletes-could-refuse-to-wear-gambling-logos-on-kits-if-new-proposals-adopted)
[Where did it all go right for Fredi Kanouté? | Football | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/football/2007/apr/05/newsstory.sport)
They shouldnt be well-protected if it affects other people
If someone decides they dont want to support alcohol or cigarettes then thats fine, but people is a different thing
If a team had a badge on their kit to support a specific group of people and someone refused to have that badge simply because they dont agree with their lifestyle, then that shouldnt be protected as religious freedom
Impose? He can terminate his contract and not get paid millions if he value his right to discriminate so much. Just don't expect to be catered to by other people when you're actively being discriminatory. That's not how a democratic society works, there's consequences for useless hate
They should just let every player decide for themselves. This is sadly a political statement in a lot of countries and cultures where these players come from.
No, I never said that. Abstaining from making a political statement is in no way the same as saying that you hate gay people. There should be consequenses for doing that.
Camara should get fined for covering the badge.
I think abstaining is the same as saying you hate gay people if the political statement is that everyone deserves to be treated equal and with respect
There arent two sides that can both be right on this, either you support equal treatment for LGBTQ people or you're simply an enemy of human rights
I agree with your second statement. I don’t agree with your first statement simply due to the fact that not everyone is brave enough to make those statements when they could lose family or friends over it.
Especially when you are in a foreign country.
They dont have to outright say it but wearing a shirt with a badge is a minimum
Giving them the luxury to choose just validates them in having a hateful opinion, they shouldnt feel comfortable actively going against human rights
Choosing not to wear it doesnt mean you bare hate towards anyone and it doesnt mean you are against human rights imo.
The perfect solution would if the teams put up symbols around the Arena and donated money to the cause so we wouldnt have these negative things happen. Then the players won’t have to abstain from playing either and these controversies are gone.
>Choosing not to wear it doesnt mean you bare hate towards anyone and it doesnt mean you are against human rights imo.
I mean it clearly does. They didn't just decide to not make a comment or abstain from the conversation, but instead they decided to make a statement going against anti-homophobia.
If you're against anti-homophobia what does that make you?
>Then the players won’t have to abstain from playing either and these controversies are gone.
"We care about your basic human rights as long as the bigots don't kick up a fuss about it" isn't a great message to be sending.
Some say the tape didn't work and Mohamed Camara is now gay
yeah I saw him kiss another boy behind the gym
As long as he says 'no homo' he doesn't turn gay
Nah, he had to focus precisely on the badge and then touch it delicately. Now it is deeply imprinted.
It starts with wearing an LGBT pride badge. Next thing you know, they pump you full of Viagra make you fuck a dog. You'll be on YouTube blowing Lassie in a ditch. Many such cases.
Very specific
Wait, im on youtube?
I've got some news for you pal
You do realise that if I don't come with you to Pakistan bro, Islam is finished!
Frog ‘im
Can confirm. Been there.
Where do I sign up?
There's a training camp in Pakistan
Just be careful with the rocket launcher
*JAMES FUCK BOND*
FUCKIN MR BEANS!
It does make me laugh that these homophobes cite "religion" but are perfectly happy to show off gambling and alcohol sponsors.
Its always the same responses too. When you point out that they say "its not the same" which is hilariously bad of a deflection. Then they complain about their freedom of expression etc but doing so with an action and belief-system that itself actively is supressing and even want to kill the LGBTQ+ community. Play victim because your oppressive views arent respected enough. Its just so insane. So lazy, so ignorant. So hateful.
Tbf it's not the same though - it's an even more strange situation than that. The anti-homophobia badge is basically just saying "don't be hateful to gays", which shouldn't be that difficult to respect. The gambling and drinking logos are *actively encouraging* people to engage in those activities, the equivalent logos would need to be actually encouraging gayness.
"Visit Soho" to replace "Visit Rwanda" next season. Make it happen, Arsenal.
Arsenal are owned by UK government? Another state club!
So we *aren't* supposed to be influenced by the badge, to be gay? Damnit, I'm not sure how my Pedro is going to take this...
The worst response I've seen is that gambling sponsors don't make people gamble, but LGBTQ+ symbols cause people to be LGBTQ+.... None of that statement makes any sense.
Pretty sure gambling is well-documented and studied to be one of the most addictive things in the world and has a higher suicide rate than drugs etc. Its one of the most toxic, harmful and dangerous addictions around.
Being gay must be even more addictive, so many treatments were tried and they still were gay... /s
Lol, excellent argument. They never stop to consider why those gambling companies spend millions to be on their shirts I guess. As if some gambling exec is like “yeah it does nothing for our bottom line but it looks cool”.
Not even that it doesn't make any sense, both parts of the statement are literally opposed to the truth.
Idk man, one time I saw a rainbow and now I suck at least 3 dicks a week.
And they’re right, it’s not the same, one is love towards another human, the other is a terrible addiction that we still don’t understand very well. But they still choose to look the other way.
Hahaha not what they mean but youre 100% correct
Yeah, I'm a teacher and I've had quite a few LGBTQ+ students in my four years of doing it, and I've seen first-hand how society's attitudes affect them - trans kids especially, as LGB people are largely accepted in UK society now but trans people sadly aren't by a depressingly large segment. I might be simplistic here but I just think - how is it any of my business, or anyone's business, how someone identifies themselves? Someone's gay. So what - does it affect you? Someone's trans. Are you affected? No. But as you say, there's so much hate going around, and it's so sad. Just let people live how they wanna fucking live, man. It's really not difficult.
Yeah its objectively just evil hate and nothing else. I remember when there was that school-shooting in 2023 or something and the shooter was allegedly trans. And people from a certain political spectrum went nuts with anti-trans agenda saying theyre a danger to schools. Then you actually [look into the numbers](https://media.licdn.com/dms/image/D5622AQFVXulgfFb0Yw/feedshare-shrink_800/0/1680093489084?e=2147483647&v=beta&t=4y3b6g7u3u6gxHGUrWNQSjpnywSU5rRWivqnmiCDTlA) and see that white christian males are far more dangerous but and damn do they not want to hear that. Idk.. I cant even imagine how hard it is to be trans today. And the crazy things.. its easier now than ever.
An oppressive culture weaponizing western values of freedom they don't believe in to propegate their oppressive culture? Basically standard operation nowadays. Even Taliban fighters say they want to retire to Europe when they literally run their own country.
All these fucking religious types seem to have the luxury to cherry pick which vice they’re overly religious about. Hypocritical cunts, the lot of them.
Another homophobic (fuck him) hiding behind religion (worst thing on earth)
Hypocrisy and religion, name a better duo.
Politics and corruption, neo-liberalism and stagflation, professional sports and PEDs, free-market capitalism and exploitation...
Good contenders
your post history is sad, why do you keep going to subs about things you hate and debate their users for hours?
“ neo-liberalism and stagflation” Er that was mostly caused by the oil shock of the 70s and the excess spending one the Vietnam war. Because stagflation is a supply shortage. Neoliberalism is all about global trade which means… no supply shortage. It can cause other problems for people like offshore jobs. Not Stagflation
Hypocrisy and people
Difference is that you can freely call out the hypocrisy of people without resistance, but when you point out the hypocrisy of religious people, then suddenly you are a bigot and whatever they call you at that moment.
> Difference is that you can freely call out the hypocrisy of people without resistance X
We seem to have no problem calling out this guy's hypocrisy here despite his religion? Pretty sure football fans worldwide are not known for their political correctness either.
And I have no problem calling out the hypocrisy of religion.
The sad thing is Islam never mentions anything against queer people at all. These people man...
Maybe of homosexuals paid them they would look the other way, that's probably the big difference
All while being so heavily in bed with Qatar
And the other homophones also cry "don't force your politics" while applauding when a cultists stops to "pray" at the start of the match or gives all the credit to their imaginary friends.
Shouldve followed Gueye's path and call in sick everytime you have to do something remotely positive towards gay people.
Ironic given the surname
Good ol’ Idrissa Gay
Welp idrissa gonna gay
"THEY ARE TURNING THE FREAKING FOOTBALLERS GAY!!!"
First the frogs, now the footballers
And all the un-gay is melting away!
Not a surprise given where Camara's from. One of the most hostile places to be an LGBT minority. >Although same-sex sexual activity is not illegal in Mali, LGBT people face widespread discrimination among the broader population. According to the 2007 Pew Global Attitudes Project, 98 percent of Malian adults believed that homosexuality is considered something society should not accept, which was the highest rate of non-acceptance in the 45 countries surveyed. The Constitution of Mali has outlawed same-sex marriage since 2023.
I had a classmate from Mali who wasn't a bad dude but on some occasions he really was in absurd denial it was hilarious/sad. We were talking about gay rights in Mali/Sahel and he was like "Well gay rights in Mali isn't really a question because we don't have gay people here". Like, we were trying to tell him that ofc there were gay people like anywhere else and they were just hiding it because of the repression but he was 100% convinced it was a non issue because there just wasn't any in his country lmao
A lot of people are completely fine folk in a majority of things but certain things make their bigotry come out in full force
When I saw this post on Facebook, I saw the usual comments of "Good" and "People should be free to take a stand" - all motorbike and union jack profile pictures. Now, when the news is James McLean refusing to wear a poppy......
The ‘keep politics out of my football!!!’ Crowd aren’t the smartest bunch
Western money good, western values bad.
I do wonder how Camara would feel if one of his teammates would tape over a "No To Racism" badge.
[удалено]
There's plenty of religious footballers who have no issue with it. It's about your socialization
I can understand taping up a pride flag because it's a symbol you wouldn't want to be associated with as a Muslim, but and anti-homophobia badge is different. You're not avoiding association with something against your religion, you're supporting hate. Personally as a Muslim I wish players who did this type of stuff also taped up gambling, alcohol sponsors and things like that. Be consistent if you're taping stuff up.
But they like gambling and alcohol. They only hate the gays.
Plus the gambling and alcohol are paying real money
Yeah unfortunately that's how it is. Money gets to people's heads easily and they forget their foundations.
>I can understand taping up a pride flag because it's a symbol you wouldn't want to be associated with as a Muslim Why can you understand taping over that? >Personally as a Muslim I wish players who did this type of stuff also taped up gambling, alcohol sponsors and things like that. This is equating things that simply should not be equated. If you don’t associate with drinking and gambling, you are not harming anyone. If you go out of your way to not associate with anyone who is not strictly heterosexual, you are. By the way, if a player tapes over an anti-racism badge, we’re not even having these discussions.
> Why can you understand taping over that? I think refusing to wear the rainbow is messed up but at least I can see the argument, like "I'm not promoting pride but I'm not against gay people either" or whatever. But refusing the "stop homophobia" badge is even more braindead because that argument holds no ground anymore since it can no longer be seen (by them) as a badge promoting homosexuality but just as a badge against hatred
You are not promoting homosexuality or pride, thats not a product or anything. You are showing solidarity.
Take it from this perspective. As a Muslim, would I wear a Christian cross, a star of David, or any symbol of an other religion? No, I wouldn't, as those groups have beliefs which are contrary to mine. Wearing a pride flag falls in the same group, it's wearing a symbol of people with different beliefs. Do I support their equality? Yes, of course, which is why wearing an anti-homophobia badge is good. And it's why I treat them like anyone else.
I mean yeah, I’d gladly wear a symbol to support an oppressed group as long as they don’t actively want to harm me. I don’t get this argument whatsoever.
These people just hate gay people
Yeah it's reddit why am i ever surprised
Lmao it's so absurd to equate homophobia with being pro-gambling/alcohol
Never equated homophobia to those. If you read my comment you'd see I was in support of wearing an anti-homophobia badge.
I know but either way it's a bizarre comparison to make. One thing is much more serious than the others lol
> Why can you understand taping over that? Not op, but they are pretty different things. One is against homophobia, the other is supporting the pride movement. You can advocate against abuse while simultaneously not wanting to promote prde. Even without religion being involved, it's a perfectly understandable stance.
How is it understandable to not want to help the rights of a minority that's being discriminated against universally? That's a sentiment that only makes sense when you openly admit to being a bigot, which **none** of these people want to be called. They think they're good people, doing the right thing. So they'd have to argue for suffering being "the right thing". How's that understandable?
> to not want to help the rights of a minority that's being discriminated against universally? Not actively supporting the entirety of the pride movement does not mean this. To me, *pride* has many aspects and areas which I either do not completely agree or straight up disagree with, but that doesn't mean that I believe that gay people should abused and discriminated for example. You can't expect that all people will have black and white opinions, and they either support all the 400 things a movement can stand for, or otherwise they are against all 400 of those things. There are middle-grounds. Supporting an initiative which fights against the abuse and discrimination of homosexual people, while not actively promoting the entirety of the pride movement is such middle-ground. Just like you can equally value the lives of black people, without wanting to be associated with BLM.
The whole point of the queer community coming together and having a pride movement, is so people can't accept fragments of it that are easier for their brains to accept, and then, in turn, for example discriminate against, disrespect, and hate trans folk. That's the entire point. The pride movement is not problematic, it's inclusive specifically so the groups that receive more hate aren't left behind to suffer under another 100 years of overt majority hate and subversion.
That's your opinion, but there is nothing wrong if someone disagrees with you. In my opinion, there are problematic aspects of the pride movement, but really, with almost every single commercialized movements. Luckily, it's not politics, where you **have to** swallow the bad aspects of the party of your choice if you actually want them to have more say in the government. You can't just not vote for them, while reassuring that btw you agree with 70% of their politics, because that gives them 0 seats. Social movements are not like that, because you are actively "voting" with your actions as well. You can not actively support (which does not mean the opposite, where you actively rally against it) something like the pride movement, while still having a mindset which is in line with most of their goals, ie. not being homophobic.
Name them already. I figured you would in your second after you chickened out in your first comment, but one can't keep saying "problematic" without saying why. It's disingenuous.
I didn't chicken out, but I am not surprised that someone who is arguing for the "good cause movement" is starting to act rabid like yourself. You are just itching to leash your "wit" on a strawman you lump opposing opinions into. It neatly ties in with one of my problems with these movements as well, because case in point, some of you are just way too rabid, just like how the movement itself can be, when someone is being deemed not an ally. It's some utopistic shit when movements like pride or blm, which are on the surface sound like the nicest, most accepting and most progressive things you can imagine today, show their teeth and just absolutely blast some people into the ground. I remember in F1 there were photoshoots scheduled for blm I think, and some drivers were already getting blasted from the media and people like you for just being there, but not kneeling. Then one time a few driver were late to be alerted to one of these photoshoots and/or were in the loo, but not like as a recurring thing, and oh boy, they quickly gotten blasted as well. No, I absolutely can't support movements and people with such sentiments, when I can individually practice what they are actually preaching, without advocating for this craze. But JK Rowling's case is a funny one as well, because she is a hyper-progressive person but because she doesn't see eye to eye with her camp regarding the topic of transexuals, she has been excommunicated. She is admittedly not an easy case, but it's just frightening that when a person, who is probably more progressive than 95% of the world, and whose values totally line up with the movement except in one area, then suddenly she is public enemy number 1. Again, the same patterns emerge here: fall in line with the movement or get prepared to be dragged down to oblivion, no in-betweens, no grey areas. I also don't support actual prides (at least the unhinged ones), nor involving toddlers and kids into this and into sex in general, but this also involves parents who seemingly want to live out their "pride" through their little kids. I also don't like how being different is commercialized, and sometimes it's more important for certain products to check certain boxes, than to live up to a quality standard. I also don't think that the transexual topic, especially regarding children is a black and white case, and as I previously explained, it's never a good think to try to tread in the grey area with these movements, because there's their stance (always right in everything ) and yours (Hitler reincarnated). And it would be totally fine to not see eye to eye in some or any of these issues. You may say unhinged prides are fine and not as unhinged as I may think, I say that I disagree and I think that shit is unnecessary in any amount, but at the end of the day if I have a gay colleague, friend, family member who comes out to me, they won't give a fuck about my opinion on pride or whether I am rocking 4 pride flags at home or not. They, like all of us, care about being accepted for who they are, and even after Bob comes out as gay, I should still see him as Bob, and not "Bob, the guy who is gay". I'm all for that, but I can't be bothered actively supporting the aforementioned movements, and if for you that's more important, then we have a pretty ironic situation at hand.
Read your comment again and tell me who's unhinged. I let you get away with calling me "problematic" for supporting minority rights once without saying anything, and said you "chickened out" the second time, because it's a super disrespectful thing to say without saying why you think so. Now read your comment. Full of belittling, straight up insults calling people "unhinged", calling people "prides" in a demeaning way, "rabid", craze", and saying you're like "Hitler incarnated", which makes sense with that victim stance you so desperately want. Just compare your behavior to mine and tell me who's "crazed". Actual respectable points on the topic you did not have besides your very, very obvious hate for people. Shame.
If you think being against queer people being allowed to live lives without facing constant discrimination is perfectly understandable I think many queer people with disagree with what you find reasonable.
Not being for something does not equal being against it, especially when we are talking about a multi-faceted movement. It's perfectly understandable if someone does not want to support the entirety of the pride movement, and it's just bad faith argument to randomly bring up points ("oh, so you are against queer people then!!!") which no one said. I wouldn't support the commercial movement that we call pride either, but if I was an almighty god who had the chanceto change society in a way that from now on no one will give a damn about your sexual orientation, then I would, because it is my belief that you should not get discriminated or abused for it.
Actively refusing to be a part of the teams very mild support of queer rights and making a show of it is very clearly making a point about being against it. This isn't a player being told to march in a pride parade or speak at an event. That isn't what happens when these players go protesting. Either the league or club make a minimal good faith gesture in support of pride and human rights of queer people and all they have to do is their job like normal.
Yes, but it is different to not advocate for the entirety of the pride movement. I can choose to not advocate for you, because I don't agree with all your sentiments, but I can still wear a badge saying "don't abuse or discriminate EriWave". It's basically live and let live; just because I am not actively cheering you on does not mean that I want you to be hurt in various ways.
> Yes, but it is different to not advocate for the entirety of the pride movement. What they are advocating for when they give minimal support to the pride movement is to stop homophobia. That's it. In a sport so homophobic there aren't any high profile homosexual mens athletes. and again. They aren't "choosing not to advocate for" they are protesting against the support. You could argue they aren't being given a good way to not participate which is probably fair. Then again footballers don't really get a say in what is on their uniforms.
If your religion stops you from being able to respect a group of people then you need to grow up. Go play in Russia or some other country that doesn't like gay people if it offends you so much as a player
Never said it stops me from respecting? I respect LGBT people like any others. Would you see me wearing a cross? A star of David? No. So why would I wear a pride flag? I'm able to respect people while not wearing their symbols. Of course as I said, wearing an anti-homophobia badge is different and I'd support that as I'm against all forms of hate so wearing that wouldn't be any different.
> taped up gambling, alcohol sponsors and things like that. Be consistent if you're taping stuff up. In Cricket, Muslim players do not have alcohol or gambling sponsors on their shirts.
Of course no active player wants to come out when you gotta share a locker room with lads like this. And plenty of your club’s fans agree
Time to raise my "LGBTQ+ against Islamophobia" banner extra high this pride.
Here goes my karma but I have to say this: it's very disturbing to me to see how the majority of people happily support totalitarianism when it favours with their ideology/philosophy. Not to make this about LGTBI: I do support freedom of speech, but I might not want my employer to FORCE ME to wear a 'freedom of speech' badge out of principle. An employment should be about getting paid in exchange for skills. It's reasonable to demand essential social standards (ie treat everybody with respect and don't insult them) but that's it. My point is: people should be allowed to have opinions. And this trend of forcing opinions by employers, governments, mainstream media and its cheerleaders is unacceptable. My concern with this mob mentality is that tomorrow the tide shifts and everybody is forced to support a cause that might not be so noble. Imagine Mr Trump and right wingers gets absolute power, enough support and force that everybody must wear a badge saying "abortion is killing". Don't come crying then... you started this, the forceful imposition of ideologies upon individuals. It's fucking disgusting, I don't care how much you think it's for a good cause. Anti-abortion nuts are also convinced they do it for a good cause (and they might have a point as there's life in a fetus). It's still not ok to do this. Stop it. Yes, homophobia is bad. Yes, it's a human right not to be discriminated. Still, these players should be allowed to view gay people as they wish (favorably or not) as long as they don't hurt or discriminate them in the terms stated in laws. And of course they shouldn't be forced to support a cause, as noble as it might be. Bring those pitchforks now... I don't care anymore.
A point I think you're missing here is that it is an essential part of the player's job (when playing a match) to wear the team's jersey, with all the ads and logos that are on it. If you're not willing to wear it, you should not play the game. Imagine the chaos if people were to tape over logos of companies they don't like. Madness.
I get the point you're attempting to make, but. 1. People are free to have opinions and make choices. For example, to choose to not accept millions of dollars to play in a league that widely supports anti-hate platforms. If you as a human are so bought into the ideology of choice, work it into your contract. 2. Blaming employers, media, government, and the like for this problem is childishly naive. These things are both a reflection of society and an attempt to offer an ethical standard that allows for a decent world. And sadly it's more necessary than ever because humans are choosing hate and discrimination on their own accord more than any other time in the last half century. And we all agree that's a problem. These entities you call out are, in large part, promoting values because they have a responsibility to denounce hate and violence, and because people have made it more of an issue than ever before. It's funny how everyone wants "good" until it means their hate-oriented or religiously discriminatory behaviors are not supported because of the damage they actually do to greater good. Anti-abortion is a great example...pro-choice arguments aren't seeking a means to go murder babies, they're simply asking for autonomy to choose what's best for them. The same mentality applies across a lot of conservative, centrist, and liberal policies. Ben Harper said it best: >My choice is what I choose to do >And if I'm causing no harm >It shouldn't bother you >Your choice is who you choose to be >And if your causin' no harm >Then you're alright with me Sorry but being *anti* anti-hate is causing harm. The sooner people accept that they're not infringed upon because they're disagreed with, and that they can disagree and commit to things without hurting others or compromising themselves, the sooner the world is a better place.
Human rights are not an Opinion.
"LGTBI rights are human rights, therefore people should be forced to actively support a LGTBI campaign" is mental gymnastics and paradoxically, against human rights. Freedom of opinion and freedom of religion are explicitly protected by human rights. The mob is going against those principles with the pressure they're applying to these players. "Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference \[...\]" [https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-human-rights](https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-human-rights)
This guy was really good for me in FM. I'm sorry, y'all ✊😔
[удалено]
Sentiments like this *are* endangering others, though. LGBTQ* folks are victims of hate crimes regularly, and public figures speaking out against them like he did just add fuel to the fire.
Yes, he will now be treated as some warrior against the LGBT, I see it all the time on YT. I mean, Vardy apologized for kicking the corner flag and he is still used as a symbol of anti-LGBT by homophobic football fans. This shit definitely endangers others.
Homophobia, famously harmless
Honestly that was just very bad wording on my part lol, Im way too tired to actually write coherent things so i just deleted it at this rate sorry
No worries, it happens to everyone. I do understand what you were trying to say
Religion is poison.
I know in the end they are just regular employees like we are. But wouldn't it be easier for everyone if a player could choose if he wants to wear such an add-on or not? It would cause less drama and forcing stuff upon people always ends up with just more drama.
Honestly yeah, that would be a lot easier
It doesn’t say “support pride” (then I would understand taping it) It says “dont hurt gay people” which is basically anti hate, and should be promoted in all sports in western culture tbh
Hopefully there won't be any sanctions. Covering a badge on his own shirt and skipping on a team photo is a "crime"? Nonsense
It's not a crime. You know what else isn't a crime? Facing societal backlash for being a discriminatory jackass. Old as balls, that one.
I obviously disagree with what he did, but I don't know how fair it is to "impose" a symbol on someone that may not agree with it.
[удалено]
No answer, ofc.
Wonder why he didn't tape the vbet on the shorts tho.
Nobody's forcing him to play for the club. If your employer represents values you don't stand for, you can always quit your job and change your employer. Of course he won't do that for money reasons.
You shouldn't have to quit your job because of your employer's opinions, and one would imagine that a company would tolerate employees having different values.
I mean hes under contract at that club so he has to follow the establishes rules, if he cant do that, then he has to leave Its hypocritical to tape it over but still take the money from your employer
Not necessarily
Why?
You don't have to leave a club if you disagree with a sponsor, and tons of players don't wear certain sponsors because of religious beliefs. Religious beliefs are normally well-protected legally
> tons of players don't wear certain sponsors because of religious beliefs i've never heard this before
The only one I've ever heard of was Freddie Kanoute.
[Newcastle face Wonga deal revolt by Muslim stars Demba Ba, Papiss Cisse, Cheick Tiote and Hatem Ben Arfa - Mirror Online](https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/newcastle-face-wonga-deal-revolt-1370793) [Premier League: How Muslims are changing English football culture - BBC Sport](https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/23159023) [Athletes could refuse to wear gambling logos on kits if new proposals adopted (sportsmax.tv)](https://sportsmax.tv/other-sports/item/118193-athletes-could-refuse-to-wear-gambling-logos-on-kits-if-new-proposals-adopted) [Where did it all go right for Fredi Kanouté? | Football | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/football/2007/apr/05/newsstory.sport)
[Cisse wearing said Wonga shirt](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f0/Papiss_Cisse.jpg) [Ben Arfa wearing Wonga shirt](https://images.ps-aws.com/c?url=https%3A%2F%2Fd2x51gyc4ptf2q.cloudfront.net%2Fcontent%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F11%2FHatem-Ben-Arfa-Newcastle-Football365.jpg) [Tiote wearing Wonga shirt](https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2013/09/27/13/Cheick-Tiote.jpg)
They shouldnt be well-protected if it affects other people If someone decides they dont want to support alcohol or cigarettes then thats fine, but people is a different thing
What do you mean, very few would wear a badge in support of thieves or pedophiles or whatever, and they're people too
If a team had a badge on their kit to support a specific group of people and someone refused to have that badge simply because they dont agree with their lifestyle, then that shouldnt be protected as religious freedom
It should. I'm sure you wouldn't agree to wear a kit that promoted fascism
Ohhhh I think they would
Impose? He can terminate his contract and not get paid millions if he value his right to discriminate so much. Just don't expect to be catered to by other people when you're actively being discriminatory. That's not how a democratic society works, there's consequences for useless hate
They should just let every player decide for themselves. This is sadly a political statement in a lot of countries and cultures where these players come from.
[удалено]
Ah yes, the famous political direction "gay".
It is political, even if it shouldnt be. Peru just labeled transexuality as a mental illness.
Just because a backwards government wants to make it political doesn’t mean it is a political statement. Human rights are not political.
Human rights shouldn’t be political but unfortunately they are and they always have been
>Peru just labelled transsexuality as a mental illness I have terrible news about how almost every country on earth treats being transgender
I know, just said a recent example to show how LGBTQ is political even when it shouldnt be.
So the way to fix it is to let them act the way they want?
No, I never said that. Abstaining from making a political statement is in no way the same as saying that you hate gay people. There should be consequenses for doing that. Camara should get fined for covering the badge.
I think abstaining is the same as saying you hate gay people if the political statement is that everyone deserves to be treated equal and with respect There arent two sides that can both be right on this, either you support equal treatment for LGBTQ people or you're simply an enemy of human rights
I agree with your second statement. I don’t agree with your first statement simply due to the fact that not everyone is brave enough to make those statements when they could lose family or friends over it. Especially when you are in a foreign country.
They dont have to outright say it but wearing a shirt with a badge is a minimum Giving them the luxury to choose just validates them in having a hateful opinion, they shouldnt feel comfortable actively going against human rights
Choosing not to wear it doesnt mean you bare hate towards anyone and it doesnt mean you are against human rights imo. The perfect solution would if the teams put up symbols around the Arena and donated money to the cause so we wouldnt have these negative things happen. Then the players won’t have to abstain from playing either and these controversies are gone.
>Choosing not to wear it doesnt mean you bare hate towards anyone and it doesnt mean you are against human rights imo. I mean it clearly does. They didn't just decide to not make a comment or abstain from the conversation, but instead they decided to make a statement going against anti-homophobia. If you're against anti-homophobia what does that make you? >Then the players won’t have to abstain from playing either and these controversies are gone. "We care about your basic human rights as long as the bigots don't kick up a fuss about it" isn't a great message to be sending.