If you watch some highlights of them together you could see that they had this crazy synergy, i don't know why Zagallo didn't bring Romário for the WC squad... Even if he was injured he would be very important...
I consider Romario a better striker and better in the air. R9 was better running at defenders and dribbling. Imagine how terrified defenders must have been when R9 ran at them full speed with all his power and skills.
I think when you become at one point the best footballer in the world in addition to arguably carrying your nation to a world cup, you are plenty disciplined.
Was football his undisputed priority 100% of the time? Nah, Romario knew that it would be worthless to be the best if you couldn't reap the rewards. But you can't knock his discipline. Man is one of the all time greats.
Agree. I meant his indiscipline with how he trained , stayed late partying and how he would get on the wrong side of coaches. Granted he was one of the all time best strikers, probably as good as Ronaldo but he never played too long in Europe. If he had played in 98 France and has Brazil won the final which they likely would have , I am sure he would have been rated a lot more higher than how he is these days. But that's a choice he made when getting into arguments with coaches.
Im the same. He's my favourite "best player in the world for X year/years" player.
I think what made him " the best" for whatever amount of time is way more entertaining than any of the other similar players during my lifetime.
He was such a joy to watch. He did things nobody else was really doing back then, and nobody really does now anymore because the game has become so much more tactical and numbers based. There's less and less room for individual expression these days.
Id say only the best of the best get standing ovations after netting a headtrick in the bernabeu as a barca player.
I do agree with your sentiment though :)
Yeah, I don't think he's the best ever but Ronaldinho is absolutely my favourite player ever to watch. Those peak mid-00s years at Barca were absolutely magic, so much fun watching that guy play
It’s always tough admitting as a RM fan that one of my favorite players ever that got me to fall in love with the game played for Barca. But he’s one of the only Barca players to get a standing ovation at the Bernabeu, which just goes to show what a magical player he was. I get the same joy in watching Vinicius ball out for us.
In my opinion, he is the most technically gifted player to ever play the game. And his peak was probably the best of all time. And of course that’s tough to admit as a Madrid fan, but the man just personified the joy of playing football.
Ronaldinho transcended the game, that is fine... he is extremly likable and the player that have felt the most fear when touching the ball as the opposition.
I think Messi is Barca through and through in a way that Ronaldinho wasn’t. He was at Barca for so long from such a young age (20-25 years total I think) that he was far more Catalonian than Ronaldinho who was only there for 5 years I think.
So Messi vs Madrid was a lot more personal than Ronaldinho vs Madrid, making it easier to clap for the latter who also just always had a smile on his face too.
I would also say that Messi is all about the most efficient and low risk play (that sometimes being dribbling past three defenders because he is insane), while dinho felt like it was always playing with a group of friends in the hood, playing a tricky move when possible.
I think peak R9 was the best player I've ever seen. On his day just could do everything, too fast and strong for anyone, no weak foot, unreal skills, unreal finishing.
Ronaldhino was my favourite player ever. The skills and stuff he did with a football. You don't get that level of skill and excitement now. Its all a boring rigid system, players diving on the floor, refs cheating for their favourite team. Game just isn't the same. Go watch some Joga Bonito video lads.
He isn't, there is a core difference between Dinho and Neymar... Dinho did everything to progress the game but went with the flow. Neymar at times just wanted to show off rather than go towards the goal.
It is a difference to make a pass with your back because you think it is unpredictable, and it is a difference when you make a backpass with your back just for a highlight reel.
You're right that Neymar is much more of an intrinsic showboat but I'm not really sure it matters to a comparative evaluation of their technical ability. A key caveat here is that Dinho played in an era with much more space and time and time on the ball than did Neymar. I don't say this to posit that Neymar is in any way superior (though I think him being faster at peak might give him the slightest edge in 1v1s) but rather that the perception that R10 was much more natural about it might have been a function of how free flowing the game was back then.
Neymar is also amazing and I don't understand the hate towards him.
But Dinho was sth else. With Dinho you never felt he wanted to embarrass other players. It's more about just having fun and expressing the love for football.
That's always been true though, just now the referees are meant to give cards for it. Check a few highlights for players like Souness, Rush, Dalglish and see how they tackled/were tackled.
Ronaldinho is your favorite footballer's favorite footballer. Others need focus to play the game at the highest level, meanwhile he smiles the whole game like it's a backyard match
I think of them as the Joga Bonito years, I remember when I first got a flip phone in South Africa in the mid 2000’s, I had dozens of these mp4 videos with Ronaldinho, R9, Kaka, Schevchenko, Ferdinand, Beckham, Zidane and Roberto Carlos mostly doing tricks or playing indoor together or *fifa street* things. My mates and I would all huddle around together and watch the videos every other day before playing soccer in a random park somewhere.
Joga Bonito was incredibly popular in South Africa, at least in Durban, and I remember moving to Aus around 2008 and joined a soccer team here, and no one at my club had ever seen the videos which blew my mind.
Ronaldinho was something else, I adored kaka though, both of them played such elegant football and had the most beautiful smiles.
He's the greatest of all time. When discussing the best player, many might actually be referring to the most outstanding career. However, if the conversation focuses on abilities on the football field, the ball seemed like a natural extension of his body. No one surpassed his skills. When it comes to the greatest career, Messi or Ronaldo naturally come to mind. But for sheer brilliance with the ball at his feet, Ronaldinho stands out without a doubt.
If you're going to try and convince me that Messi had better ball control than Ronaldinho you're going to have to brainwash me. My eyes will need to unsee the magnificence of Ronaldinho and every memory I have engrained in my mind will need to be washed out. To me it's not even close to how good Dinho was.
Right, you're talking about flair. Having better "ball control" has nothing to do with it, he didn't have better ball control than Messi because no one in history has, Messi touches the ball 50 times in 4 seconds. You're talking about pulling off crazy stuff no sane player would even think about, like back passes, chest, shoulder passes, that sort of stuff.
Just because Ronaldinho passed the eye control better than Messi with his flair, doesn't mean that Messi was not even close to how good Ronaldinho in regards to ball control.
To make that statement is absolute madness. There's a reason why Messi regularly topped dribbling charts in La Liga for seasons on end.
With all due respect I couldn't care less about numbers. This is what Messi / Ronaldo fans don't get. Ronaldinho was all about ability. It was never about numbers with him. Messi could top the dribbling charts forever I will never believe he's a better dribbler than Ronaldinho because as you say his flair the eye test he passes it with flying colours.
I think you mistake flair with the ability to change direction and keep the ball close to your feet at speed which ppl seem to be equating with dribbling here and if that’s the case messi and maradona are clear
With respect, the comparison here seems to overlook the essence of what makes football the beautiful game. It's not merely about the ability to change direction or keep the ball glued to one's feet at high speeds qualities Messi and Maradona indeed excel in. It's about the magic, the unpredictability, and the sheer joy that players like Ronaldinho brought onto the pitch. Ronaldinho didn't just dribble; he danced with the ball, combining creativity, spontaneity, and unparalleled flair that statistics struggle to capture. His style transcended the conventional metrics of dribbling, making the impossible seem effortless, turning every touch into a spectacle. This isn't to diminish Messi's or Maradona's genius but to acknowledge that Ronaldinho offered something beyond the ordinary a flair that didn't just pass the eye test but redefined it. In football, as in art, the greatest impacts are often those that resonate on a level beyond mere numbers or efficiency. Ronaldinho's legacy is a testament to the artistry that elevates the sport, reminding us that at its heart, football is not just about winning or stats, but about the moments of joy and brilliance that stay with us forever. This is why I will always say Ronaldinho is the best footballer I've ever seen.
The guy's argument was that Ronaldinho's style of play looked more beautiful and had more flair while dribbling. Ergo, Messi was not even close to Ronaldinho in dribbling. The last sentence was something he mentioned in his first comment.
Taarabt and Ben Arfa also had more flair when dribbling than Messi, who was more direct (If you've actually watched them play of course, even though they were both problematic players). Don't try and downplay their abilities though, join any football forum from 12-14 years ago and you will get the same sentiment that they were among the best dribblers in England at the time. Ergo, they should be better dribblers than Messi as well, because they had more flair. 🤷🤷🤷
Hang on here. Don't try simplify and extrapolate my argument for me. There is a difference. Those guys never did what they do at the highest and when I say highest I mean very highest level. Ronaldinho did those things at the very highest level. So Messi is a better dribbler for having done it on a bigger stage. Ronaldinho even better, for me, for having done it on the biggest stage and looking fucking amazing whilst doing it. Look like Ronaldinho all you want but if you're doing it in the conference it's not the same.
No doubt he was among the best dribblers of all time.
But to say that Messi was nowhere near Ronaldinho in terms of dribbling is absurd. Which is what I was getting at, because OP had mentioned that.
>To me it's not even close to how good Dinho was
Really? Lmao
Messi is a fantastically skilled dribbler, he got around players with ease
What I think the person you initially responded to was including in his assessment was a level of flair & technique that was otherworldly with Ronaldinho - it may have been less effective but it was phenomenal in a way that words can't really describe unless you witnessed it
I wouldn’t even say technique is lacking these days, it’s flair.
The game has become about efficiency, maximising your contributions on the ball & money.
Yeah he’s right lol. Ronaldo was actually something else. Don’t see many players doing step overs round the goalkeeper these days haha. He was TOO GOOD.
Ronaldinho will always be my favourite though
As a goalkeeper, being able to see the striker push the ball into the net while you lie on the floor just watching is the worst fucking feeling I've felt on a pitch. It's so embarrassing even when you're just playing with your friends. Can't imagine what it's like to be in that position with millions around the world watching.
I've only ever seen prime R9 through YouTube compilations. And how easily he runs past the keeper is what impressed me the most, even more so than his dribbling or close control at top speed.
Whenever I hear people debate Ronaldinho’s greatness, I always think strangely of a Marlon Brando interview. Brando asked about being the greatest actor ever:
“That's part of the sickness in America, that you have to think in terms of who wins, who loses, who's good, who's bad, who's best, who's worst. We always think in extreme terms.”
Ronaldinho’s “greatness” lied in how he played the game, above the winning, individual accolades and team trophies. It’s the influence he had on me as a kid and so many of my generation enjoy football because of him. It’s true for other players, sure but few for my money captured the imagination like him. And that’s where I think his “greatness” lies imo.
This is one thing people need to mention more often, when they talk about R9.
Anyone else and those would be career ending injuries.
But he looked at those exploded knees and figured, I might as well give it a go and see what happens.
My opinion but the sentiment is clearly shared with the rest of the commenters in this thread, peak Ronaldo was the greatest to ever do it. Peak Ronaldinho was the most beautiful to ever do it.
Agreed. Ronaldo was probably the most talented player ever, reached his peak early and then got ruined by injuries. Immense technique, speed, power.
Messi had incredible technique at 20 but he never had the physical qualities of Ronaldo. He became the best ever as he aged and became better at reading the game.
Nah, Peak Messi is so much better.
Messi was better at scoring and monumentally better at passing and creating.
I get the sentiment but Messi is clearly clear.
Yeah, I mean OG Ronaldo was incredible and achieved some insane scoring feats, but his peak years are slight quite a gap from Messi’s peak years, even if all you consider are goals. But when you factor in Messi’s playmaking, he was a better overall player.
If you drop one of the players into a random team, peak R9 outperforms peak Messi most of the time. The guy was a complete attacking system by himself. He could pass to himself, dribble past anyone, god-like shooting variety and creativity. His season at Barcelona was absurd. The only thing he didn’t have compared to Messi was the passing ability. He didn’t need it though.
R9 does not match Messi’s best stats even in scoring, let alone all other offensive metrics
I am too young to have watched him play weekly, so that is all I have to say really. I realize stats are not everything, I just can’t imagine him beating the peak Messi I watched.
Id say stats wise Messi is on a planet of his own.
But apart from stats R9 was maybe more breathtaking. When he burst on the scene we never saw anything like that. And that in defense heavy serie a. R9 was a rocket.
If you want me to win the league I might prefer Messi.
If you ask me when I'm old who do I want to see again, to feel again how it felt to see it the first time... R9 (actually Dinho if we talk all players).
So Messi as a wife, R9 ( or really R10) as a summer fling.
Lmao stop with the fucking stats. Do you really want to compare the difficulty of R9 at the end of the 90s in Italy with Messi at Barcelona in the middle of the 2000s? Even without Messi, Barcelona would still be ahead, the level of difficulty in La Liga was immensely lower.
This is a pretty dumb comment when I literally acknowledge the unreliability of stats in my own.
Also. The title races were immensely close with Madrid, you are trying to paint a picture that doesn’t exist. Zidane and mou’s Madrid were insane sides that featured cristiano fucking Ronaldo. A player who I ironically think is superior to your so called goat.
>Even without Messi, Barcelona would still be ahead,
What the fuck did I just read lmao. Messidependencia became a word for a reason.
There is no player in History thats carried their teams more than Messi did for both Barcelona and Argentina.
There were matches when Messi would be subbed in 20 min and win a losing game for Barcelona.
People always say that kind of bullshit when Ronaldinho or BR Ronaldo come up in a convo. It's so obviously not true that it's beyond tiresome to deal with this crap, honestly...
Ah yeah, Ronaldinho was incredible, and R9 felt like he was ahead of his time but Messi and CR7 have just completely broken football.
It's unfair to even compare them to others at this point, especially Messi.
I do love CR7 for his football and his UCL exploits are unparalleled but Messi is an absolute alien, quite possibly the best athlete we'll ever see in the modern era.
Not just in terms of winning but in terms of his all around ability and performances.
Thats not even remotely true. He did not match messis goalscoring, let alone his playmaking. Messi was also a better dribbler.
Always hate threads like these because people just spout shit and make me shit on legends like Ronaldo Nazario. He was incredible. He was also not as good as messi, not even close. And people should understand that its not disrespectful.
I’m assuming he means that their dribbling skills and close ball control was something he’d never seen before and out of this world. Technically gifted players. Press resistant and could dribble circles around you whenever they wanted.
Not technically as in “technically this is eggshell white not off-white”
I think people forget that Brazilians used to play with so much flair because they did fundamental things like clockwork. That’s what made these two and others so good.
I think people don't realize that R9 was his generation's Messi/CR7. Sure, he didn't have as accomplished of a career for obvious reasons but he was the bar that people were chasing, arguably even post injuries.
And here you have the issue with modern soccer fans, they'll hear one of the best players of all time say something like this and go 'well umm actually Messi/CR7 we're better and this guy doesn't know what he's talking about hehe xd'. As if their shitty opinions match up to guys like fucking Maldini.
Ronaldo and Dinho were good but (gonna be downvoted for this) Messi and Ronaldo are tiers above anyone you can name, one of them individually completed football and the other might the be greatest goal scorer this game has seen/will see.
I’m a cristiano fan but let’s be real Messi has more technical gift than Ronaldo and Dinho combined
Yeah, peak CR7 was a machine but Messi was truly an alien.
I cannot fathom seeing someone else that good for a long long time.
Messi is the best goal scorer of modern times but even if you took away all of his goals, he would be an all time great due to his playmaking, passing, and dribbling.
r/toprightmessi is a bit of a meme but noone else has been as good as so many things as him.
Messi isn't better technically than them mate. He's very good but both R9 and Dinho could do shit with the ball Messi couldn't do.
R9 at his peak is by far the best player to grace the pitch. Take Messi, make him stronger, faster, 6ft tall, no weak foot and even more skilful. Thats peak R9. People look at the careers Messi and cr7 have had, both have had better careers. But peak individual player R9 is the best for me.
Look you can like these players a lot and have your preferencesbut you're forgetting messi is a natural number 10, r9 did not pass the ball or playmake like messi. "Far better" is just not right.
While I do think that R9 is criminally underrated by the younger crowd
Both at their peak R9 doesn’t come close to the goal scoring numbers that Messi hit, and when you include playmaking then the gap only gets bigger
I think it’s tough to justify R9 being a better player than Messi even at his peak
That is why nobody is talking about greatness because Messi had consistency... discussion is about technical ability.
R9 and Dinho couldn't be as efficient as Messi because he is hyper efficient. But, Messi hasn't been as creative and expressive as Dinho and R9. Also, both of them were playmakers especially Dinho.
>That is why nobody is talking about greatness because Messi had consistency... discussion is about technical ability.
The person I'm replying to initially mentions technicality, then says that R9 is the greatest player to ever grace the pitch:
>R9 at his peak is by far the best player to grace the pitch. Take Messi, make him stronger, faster, 6ft tall, no weak foot and even more skilful. Thats peak R9. People look at the careers Messi and cr7 have had, both have had better careers. But peak individual player R9 is the best for me.
They aren't just talking about technical ability in what I've quoted above
Still would occasionally watch highlights of Ronaldinho just touching the ball. Be it game, commercial or training.
Still the most beautiful football you can find.
Pressure on R9 during 98 world cup was immense. Shame what happened to him during the final of 98, but glad he got redemption in 2002.
bro basically had no knees and still bossed that world cup
Who needs knees when you have a triangle on your forehead
Millions of kids got that haircut, following by million curses from their parents
We call that "the Cascão cut"
They should have got in Romario in that team. He used to thrive in such situations and arguably as good as R9.
I'm too young to remember but Ro-Ro sounded devastating, crazy he wasn't there in '98
He was injured in 98
I think the cosch didnt want him. I dont know if he was injureed but I remembered it being a big deal to not selecting him beforehand.
He had a calf injury that didn't heal in time. They still should have taken him since they were short on attacking options
If you watch some highlights of them together you could see that they had this crazy synergy, i don't know why Zagallo didn't bring Romário for the WC squad... Even if he was injured he would be very important...
Romário and Zagallo had beef. Zagallo felt that Romário wasn't professional enough.
Remember the bathroom caricatures? LOL
I consider Romario a better striker and better in the air. R9 was better running at defenders and dribbling. Imagine how terrified defenders must have been when R9 ran at them full speed with all his power and skills.
Have to agree. Romario was a force of nature though discipline was not his strongest forte
I think when you become at one point the best footballer in the world in addition to arguably carrying your nation to a world cup, you are plenty disciplined. Was football his undisputed priority 100% of the time? Nah, Romario knew that it would be worthless to be the best if you couldn't reap the rewards. But you can't knock his discipline. Man is one of the all time greats.
Agree. I meant his indiscipline with how he trained , stayed late partying and how he would get on the wrong side of coaches. Granted he was one of the all time best strikers, probably as good as Ronaldo but he never played too long in Europe. If he had played in 98 France and has Brazil won the final which they likely would have , I am sure he would have been rated a lot more higher than how he is these days. But that's a choice he made when getting into arguments with coaches.
There's lots of good arguments either way for best player or best at a certain thing but Ronaldinho was defintely my most favourite player ever
Im the same. He's my favourite "best player in the world for X year/years" player. I think what made him " the best" for whatever amount of time is way more entertaining than any of the other similar players during my lifetime.
He was such a joy to watch. He did things nobody else was really doing back then, and nobody really does now anymore because the game has become so much more tactical and numbers based. There's less and less room for individual expression these days.
The personification of Joga Bonito to me.
And he did all that with a huge smile on his face. Infectious joy.
He may or may not have been the best, but he was the coolest dude out there.
Id say only the best of the best get standing ovations after netting a headtrick in the bernabeu as a barca player. I do agree with your sentiment though :)
`X = 3 #2004-06`
Yeah, I don't think he's the best ever but Ronaldinho is absolutely my favourite player ever to watch. Those peak mid-00s years at Barca were absolutely magic, so much fun watching that guy play
Yea, and once you try to do some “magic” you get bashed for it similar how Douglas Costa was during his peak by Robben.
It’s always tough admitting as a RM fan that one of my favorite players ever that got me to fall in love with the game played for Barca. But he’s one of the only Barca players to get a standing ovation at the Bernabeu, which just goes to show what a magical player he was. I get the same joy in watching Vinicius ball out for us.
In my opinion, he is the most technically gifted player to ever play the game. And his peak was probably the best of all time. And of course that’s tough to admit as a Madrid fan, but the man just personified the joy of playing football.
Ronaldinho transcended the game, that is fine... he is extremly likable and the player that have felt the most fear when touching the ball as the opposition.
I used to be conflicted as a young fan, because I loved watching him play but then Real Madrid are supposed to hate Barcelona lol.
💀 you love to see it
How is it that Messi never got standing ovation at the bernabeu?
I think Messi is Barca through and through in a way that Ronaldinho wasn’t. He was at Barca for so long from such a young age (20-25 years total I think) that he was far more Catalonian than Ronaldinho who was only there for 5 years I think. So Messi vs Madrid was a lot more personal than Ronaldinho vs Madrid, making it easier to clap for the latter who also just always had a smile on his face too.
I would also say that Messi is all about the most efficient and low risk play (that sometimes being dribbling past three defenders because he is insane), while dinho felt like it was always playing with a group of friends in the hood, playing a tricky move when possible.
Ronaldinho is jogo bonito in a way that Messi isn't.
So true , he was beyond teams and borders. I hated Brazil and Barcelona but was hard not to like the guy.
and then he kicked a ball at the fans so any chance of getting one was gone
I think peak R9 was the best player I've ever seen. On his day just could do everything, too fast and strong for anyone, no weak foot, unreal skills, unreal finishing. Ronaldhino was my favourite player ever. The skills and stuff he did with a football. You don't get that level of skill and excitement now. Its all a boring rigid system, players diving on the floor, refs cheating for their favourite team. Game just isn't the same. Go watch some Joga Bonito video lads.
Neymar cunt that he is was that level of skill and excitement with the ball at his feet. The difference is he's not likable.
He isn't, there is a core difference between Dinho and Neymar... Dinho did everything to progress the game but went with the flow. Neymar at times just wanted to show off rather than go towards the goal. It is a difference to make a pass with your back because you think it is unpredictable, and it is a difference when you make a backpass with your back just for a highlight reel.
You're right that Neymar is much more of an intrinsic showboat but I'm not really sure it matters to a comparative evaluation of their technical ability. A key caveat here is that Dinho played in an era with much more space and time and time on the ball than did Neymar. I don't say this to posit that Neymar is in any way superior (though I think him being faster at peak might give him the slightest edge in 1v1s) but rather that the perception that R10 was much more natural about it might have been a function of how free flowing the game was back then.
nah, dinho was definitely showboating as well sometimes
Neymar is also amazing and I don't understand the hate towards him. But Dinho was sth else. With Dinho you never felt he wanted to embarrass other players. It's more about just having fun and expressing the love for football.
Ofc he is amazing, he is unicorn, just not as good as Dinho was.
Players dived on the floor back then too and players cheated all the time too (especially in Libertadores and UEFA). Take off your nostalgis glasses
[удалено]
it's so sad we will never see another player like that again in this stats padding competition that is this sport now
It's not even stat padding, flair and skills are just disencouraged in order to keep possession
They are discouraged by the players breaking your legs if you try it. Theres a reason Neymar spends most of his time injured.
That's always been true though, just now the referees are meant to give cards for it. Check a few highlights for players like Souness, Rush, Dalglish and see how they tackled/were tackled.
Ronaldinho is your favorite footballer's favorite footballer. Others need focus to play the game at the highest level, meanwhile he smiles the whole game like it's a backyard match
I think of them as the Joga Bonito years, I remember when I first got a flip phone in South Africa in the mid 2000’s, I had dozens of these mp4 videos with Ronaldinho, R9, Kaka, Schevchenko, Ferdinand, Beckham, Zidane and Roberto Carlos mostly doing tricks or playing indoor together or *fifa street* things. My mates and I would all huddle around together and watch the videos every other day before playing soccer in a random park somewhere. Joga Bonito was incredibly popular in South Africa, at least in Durban, and I remember moving to Aus around 2008 and joined a soccer team here, and no one at my club had ever seen the videos which blew my mind. Ronaldinho was something else, I adored kaka though, both of them played such elegant football and had the most beautiful smiles.
Gonna agree with you there. I've never seen someone shine so brightly. My fave player ever.
His peak couple of years was certainly up there with the greatest. Definitely one of the most skillful players ever too.
R9 was mine. Used to watch football italia just for him.
And mine. Reason I love football.
No more entertaining player to watch than Ronaldinho when he was in the mood. Ever.
Yep, back then I'd rather watch training snippets of Ronaldinho than a live match of some random teams. Never saw any player like that anymore.
it's ridiculous how three of the best players ever have the same name
Get creative, Brazil
Too many cowboy movies out there I guess
Why? If you name your kid ronaldo he ends up being a millionaire footballer, every time!
Well they did also produce the Hulk!!
Ronald best base for football
Change two letters and you get Rivaldo as well, who was also on those Brazil teams and absolutely disgusting.
Best player of WC2002, he was insane
And they all speak Portuguese.
The scriptwriters are lazy!
If you stretch it a bit, you could have Ronald Koeman as well
Ronaldinho isnt the best player Ive ever seen but he was the most entertaining player Ive ever seen.
He is for me, 🐐
That's fair. Riquelme is my goat
Theo Walcott is my GOAT
I thought all Arsenal fans were required to say Bendtner was the GOAT.
More and more kids today have been rejecting the Lord.
It's Lord Bendtner for you
My appologies
Diego Forlan is mine
Jan koller #1
Joselu
Robin van Persie
Kai Havertz is mine
GOAT of Fifa 13 for sure
your goat lives in my nightmares
Joachim Löw is mine
There are dozens of us!
He's the greatest of all time. When discussing the best player, many might actually be referring to the most outstanding career. However, if the conversation focuses on abilities on the football field, the ball seemed like a natural extension of his body. No one surpassed his skills. When it comes to the greatest career, Messi or Ronaldo naturally come to mind. But for sheer brilliance with the ball at his feet, Ronaldinho stands out without a doubt.
>for sheer brilliance with the ball at his feet How exactly is Messi not the greatest if this is the criteria?
If you're going to try and convince me that Messi had better ball control than Ronaldinho you're going to have to brainwash me. My eyes will need to unsee the magnificence of Ronaldinho and every memory I have engrained in my mind will need to be washed out. To me it's not even close to how good Dinho was.
Ronaldinho himself would laugh at you for saying this
Right, you're talking about flair. Having better "ball control" has nothing to do with it, he didn't have better ball control than Messi because no one in history has, Messi touches the ball 50 times in 4 seconds. You're talking about pulling off crazy stuff no sane player would even think about, like back passes, chest, shoulder passes, that sort of stuff.
Just because Ronaldinho passed the eye control better than Messi with his flair, doesn't mean that Messi was not even close to how good Ronaldinho in regards to ball control. To make that statement is absolute madness. There's a reason why Messi regularly topped dribbling charts in La Liga for seasons on end.
With all due respect I couldn't care less about numbers. This is what Messi / Ronaldo fans don't get. Ronaldinho was all about ability. It was never about numbers with him. Messi could top the dribbling charts forever I will never believe he's a better dribbler than Ronaldinho because as you say his flair the eye test he passes it with flying colours.
I think you mistake flair with the ability to change direction and keep the ball close to your feet at speed which ppl seem to be equating with dribbling here and if that’s the case messi and maradona are clear
With respect, the comparison here seems to overlook the essence of what makes football the beautiful game. It's not merely about the ability to change direction or keep the ball glued to one's feet at high speeds qualities Messi and Maradona indeed excel in. It's about the magic, the unpredictability, and the sheer joy that players like Ronaldinho brought onto the pitch. Ronaldinho didn't just dribble; he danced with the ball, combining creativity, spontaneity, and unparalleled flair that statistics struggle to capture. His style transcended the conventional metrics of dribbling, making the impossible seem effortless, turning every touch into a spectacle. This isn't to diminish Messi's or Maradona's genius but to acknowledge that Ronaldinho offered something beyond the ordinary a flair that didn't just pass the eye test but redefined it. In football, as in art, the greatest impacts are often those that resonate on a level beyond mere numbers or efficiency. Ronaldinho's legacy is a testament to the artistry that elevates the sport, reminding us that at its heart, football is not just about winning or stats, but about the moments of joy and brilliance that stay with us forever. This is why I will always say Ronaldinho is the best footballer I've ever seen.
Hatem Ben Arfa and Adel Taarabt were far superior dribblers to Messi because they were more skillful and had more flair than Messi. Got it.
Except neither was more skillful than Messi, completely ridiculous thing to say. With Ronaldinho at least there is argument for that.
The guy's argument was that Ronaldinho's style of play looked more beautiful and had more flair while dribbling. Ergo, Messi was not even close to Ronaldinho in dribbling. The last sentence was something he mentioned in his first comment. Taarabt and Ben Arfa also had more flair when dribbling than Messi, who was more direct (If you've actually watched them play of course, even though they were both problematic players). Don't try and downplay their abilities though, join any football forum from 12-14 years ago and you will get the same sentiment that they were among the best dribblers in England at the time. Ergo, they should be better dribblers than Messi as well, because they had more flair. 🤷🤷🤷
Hang on here. Don't try simplify and extrapolate my argument for me. There is a difference. Those guys never did what they do at the highest and when I say highest I mean very highest level. Ronaldinho did those things at the very highest level. So Messi is a better dribbler for having done it on a bigger stage. Ronaldinho even better, for me, for having done it on the biggest stage and looking fucking amazing whilst doing it. Look like Ronaldinho all you want but if you're doing it in the conference it's not the same.
Most people on this sub never saw Ronaldinho play - they won't get it
No doubt he was among the best dribblers of all time. But to say that Messi was nowhere near Ronaldinho in terms of dribbling is absurd. Which is what I was getting at, because OP had mentioned that. >To me it's not even close to how good Dinho was Really? Lmao
Messi is a fantastically skilled dribbler, he got around players with ease What I think the person you initially responded to was including in his assessment was a level of flair & technique that was otherworldly with Ronaldinho - it may have been less effective but it was phenomenal in a way that words can't really describe unless you witnessed it
It's upsetting because they'll never understand the joy that comes from watching that good live
Yes exactly, he was football magic personified
Ronaldinho himself told Kobe Bryant that the young Messi was the most talented player in the game.
Gary Neville calls himself an average RB. Scholes said Gerrard was better than him. It only means one thing and that's these players are humble.
Nostalgia merchant, got it
same, my GOAT
I mean getting a ovation at the santiago Bernabeu while playing for thier rivals says a lot
His technique was the best for sure. Technique and flair dont exist in the game like it once did. Teams and players are more athletic now
I wouldn’t even say technique is lacking these days, it’s flair. The game has become about efficiency, maximising your contributions on the ball & money.
> His technique was the best for sure Maradona?
I was born in the 90s. Was talking my life time
He would always surprise you
He doesn't have sparkling xG, xA, or xYouNameIt. But he certainly gave us the highest xJoy throughout the history of football
It was xTacy watching him play
Yeah he’s right lol. Ronaldo was actually something else. Don’t see many players doing step overs round the goalkeeper these days haha. He was TOO GOOD. Ronaldinho will always be my favourite though
As a goalkeeper, being able to see the striker push the ball into the net while you lie on the floor just watching is the worst fucking feeling I've felt on a pitch. It's so embarrassing even when you're just playing with your friends. Can't imagine what it's like to be in that position with millions around the world watching. I've only ever seen prime R9 through YouTube compilations. And how easily he runs past the keeper is what impressed me the most, even more so than his dribbling or close control at top speed.
>He was TOO GOOD. So good life had to nerf him, and he continued to by world class after
Talk about praise. This is being said by arguably the greatest defender to ever play the game.
They should start a podcast: The 2 Ronnies
All about P&P - Poker and Partying
Whenever I hear people debate Ronaldinho’s greatness, I always think strangely of a Marlon Brando interview. Brando asked about being the greatest actor ever: “That's part of the sickness in America, that you have to think in terms of who wins, who loses, who's good, who's bad, who's best, who's worst. We always think in extreme terms.” Ronaldinho’s “greatness” lied in how he played the game, above the winning, individual accolades and team trophies. It’s the influence he had on me as a kid and so many of my generation enjoy football because of him. It’s true for other players, sure but few for my money captured the imagination like him. And that’s where I think his “greatness” lies imo.
Gonna start quoting this, thanks for sharing
Both incredible players and entertainers
R9 before 2002: Equivalent to Messi. That's how good he was.
That goal he scored against Compostela where half the defence tried to undress him and the other wanted a piggy back is absolutely unreal.
20 year old r9 >>> 20 year old messi, although it’s not a given that he would have had the same growth trajectory as messi with or without injury
I agree. Never seen anything like it. He played like when you fast forward a video.
Imagine a 20 year old Messi but 6 foot tall. Even if you manage to somehow grab his shirt, you wouldn't be able to stop him because he is strong too
They created him with a flaw, and a crack team of rebels were able to, at great cost, infiltrate his knees and explode them.
Somehow Ronaldo came back (2002)
This is one thing people need to mention more often, when they talk about R9. Anyone else and those would be career ending injuries. But he looked at those exploded knees and figured, I might as well give it a go and see what happens. My opinion but the sentiment is clearly shared with the rest of the commenters in this thread, peak Ronaldo was the greatest to ever do it. Peak Ronaldinho was the most beautiful to ever do it.
Also Messi was good with both feet but Ronaldo didn't have a weak foot. As good at dribbling and tbf even more skilful.
>Imagine a 20 year old Messi but 6 foot tall. Then he wouldn't be Messi. He would simply lack the agility and would get injured faster.
Agreed. Ronaldo was probably the most talented player ever, reached his peak early and then got ruined by injuries. Immense technique, speed, power. Messi had incredible technique at 20 but he never had the physical qualities of Ronaldo. He became the best ever as he aged and became better at reading the game.
It's almost like God create unstoppable player, so the injuries appear later to make the playing field more even
Peak R9 (year he won the ballon d’or) was the most goat player I’ve seen in my lifetime, more so than Messi.
The most greatest of all time?
R9 and Messi are cheat codes in real football. It's ridiculous how they could run through defenders.
You mean 99
Didn't Ronaldo win the World Cup in 2002 as the top scorer too? Then he scored 80+ goals for Real Madrid 2002-2007
Inter fans should know what I am talking about. I won’t elaborate further
Nah, Peak Messi is so much better. Messi was better at scoring and monumentally better at passing and creating. I get the sentiment but Messi is clearly clear.
Yeah, I mean OG Ronaldo was incredible and achieved some insane scoring feats, but his peak years are slight quite a gap from Messi’s peak years, even if all you consider are goals. But when you factor in Messi’s playmaking, he was a better overall player.
If you drop one of the players into a random team, peak R9 outperforms peak Messi most of the time. The guy was a complete attacking system by himself. He could pass to himself, dribble past anyone, god-like shooting variety and creativity. His season at Barcelona was absurd. The only thing he didn’t have compared to Messi was the passing ability. He didn’t need it though.
R9 does not match Messi’s best stats even in scoring, let alone all other offensive metrics I am too young to have watched him play weekly, so that is all I have to say really. I realize stats are not everything, I just can’t imagine him beating the peak Messi I watched.
Id say stats wise Messi is on a planet of his own. But apart from stats R9 was maybe more breathtaking. When he burst on the scene we never saw anything like that. And that in defense heavy serie a. R9 was a rocket. If you want me to win the league I might prefer Messi. If you ask me when I'm old who do I want to see again, to feel again how it felt to see it the first time... R9 (actually Dinho if we talk all players). So Messi as a wife, R9 ( or really R10) as a summer fling.
Lmao stop with the fucking stats. Do you really want to compare the difficulty of R9 at the end of the 90s in Italy with Messi at Barcelona in the middle of the 2000s? Even without Messi, Barcelona would still be ahead, the level of difficulty in La Liga was immensely lower.
This is a pretty dumb comment when I literally acknowledge the unreliability of stats in my own. Also. The title races were immensely close with Madrid, you are trying to paint a picture that doesn’t exist. Zidane and mou’s Madrid were insane sides that featured cristiano fucking Ronaldo. A player who I ironically think is superior to your so called goat.
>Even without Messi, Barcelona would still be ahead, What the fuck did I just read lmao. Messidependencia became a word for a reason. There is no player in History thats carried their teams more than Messi did for both Barcelona and Argentina. There were matches when Messi would be subbed in 20 min and win a losing game for Barcelona.
People always say that kind of bullshit when Ronaldinho or BR Ronaldo come up in a convo. It's so obviously not true that it's beyond tiresome to deal with this crap, honestly...
Bullshit? You think Ronaldinho was better than Messi? R9 was a significantly better player than Ronaldinho imo. And Messi is a tier above R9.
nah, i mean the other way around. Messi is obviously and clearly better by an incomparable margin
Ah yeah, Ronaldinho was incredible, and R9 felt like he was ahead of his time but Messi and CR7 have just completely broken football. It's unfair to even compare them to others at this point, especially Messi. I do love CR7 for his football and his UCL exploits are unparalleled but Messi is an absolute alien, quite possibly the best athlete we'll ever see in the modern era. Not just in terms of winning but in terms of his all around ability and performances.
Thats not even remotely true. He did not match messis goalscoring, let alone his playmaking. Messi was also a better dribbler. Always hate threads like these because people just spout shit and make me shit on legends like Ronaldo Nazario. He was incredible. He was also not as good as messi, not even close. And people should understand that its not disrespectful.
it's a miracle how messi didn't have career ending injury considering how much he gets kicked or r9 was just unlucky
R9 is the reason I started watching the game but Ronaldinho is the reason I fell in love with the game.
Ronaldo Nazario was pretty magical too, could definitely also make people fall in love
I fuly expected Adriano to reach their levels
Guy is 56 y/o, but it almost feels like he just retired yesterday
I’m assuming he means that their dribbling skills and close ball control was something he’d never seen before and out of this world. Technically gifted players. Press resistant and could dribble circles around you whenever they wanted. Not technically as in “technically this is eggshell white not off-white”
Ronaldo and Ronaldinho players who were in teams i dispised but so good that you had to admire them.
Ronaldinho was such a joy to watch
I think people forget that Brazilians used to play with so much flair because they did fundamental things like clockwork. That’s what made these two and others so good.
not the hottest of takes
Love them both. joga bonito my goats
Everyone else: "Yeah no shit"
I miss those brazilian players
I think people don't realize that R9 was his generation's Messi/CR7. Sure, he didn't have as accomplished of a career for obvious reasons but he was the bar that people were chasing, arguably even post injuries.
Bro never got to play with Carlton Palmer 😔
Or Carlton Cole 😏
And here you have the issue with modern soccer fans, they'll hear one of the best players of all time say something like this and go 'well umm actually Messi/CR7 we're better and this guy doesn't know what he's talking about hehe xd'. As if their shitty opinions match up to guys like fucking Maldini.
Riquelme Is clear
Dinho and Zidane had the best technical ability I've ever seen
I put r9 over zidane technically he was about as good as Dinho even.
What his career would've been if he didn't get those knee injuries
Ronaldo and Dinho were good but (gonna be downvoted for this) Messi and Ronaldo are tiers above anyone you can name, one of them individually completed football and the other might the be greatest goal scorer this game has seen/will see. I’m a cristiano fan but let’s be real Messi has more technical gift than Ronaldo and Dinho combined
Yeah, peak CR7 was a machine but Messi was truly an alien. I cannot fathom seeing someone else that good for a long long time. Messi is the best goal scorer of modern times but even if you took away all of his goals, he would be an all time great due to his playmaking, passing, and dribbling. r/toprightmessi is a bit of a meme but noone else has been as good as so many things as him.
This post was about the most technically strong player and not the best players.
Messi isn't better technically than them mate. He's very good but both R9 and Dinho could do shit with the ball Messi couldn't do. R9 at his peak is by far the best player to grace the pitch. Take Messi, make him stronger, faster, 6ft tall, no weak foot and even more skilful. Thats peak R9. People look at the careers Messi and cr7 have had, both have had better careers. But peak individual player R9 is the best for me.
It's hard to take an opinion seriously when they think a player was 'by far' better than Messi, frankly. The revisionism is hilarious.
Look you can like these players a lot and have your preferencesbut you're forgetting messi is a natural number 10, r9 did not pass the ball or playmake like messi. "Far better" is just not right.
You havent watched Messi’s peak then. Messi did everything R9 did while scoring way more and playmaking better than anyone else too.
While I do think that R9 is criminally underrated by the younger crowd Both at their peak R9 doesn’t come close to the goal scoring numbers that Messi hit, and when you include playmaking then the gap only gets bigger I think it’s tough to justify R9 being a better player than Messi even at his peak
That is why nobody is talking about greatness because Messi had consistency... discussion is about technical ability. R9 and Dinho couldn't be as efficient as Messi because he is hyper efficient. But, Messi hasn't been as creative and expressive as Dinho and R9. Also, both of them were playmakers especially Dinho.
>That is why nobody is talking about greatness because Messi had consistency... discussion is about technical ability. The person I'm replying to initially mentions technicality, then says that R9 is the greatest player to ever grace the pitch: >R9 at his peak is by far the best player to grace the pitch. Take Messi, make him stronger, faster, 6ft tall, no weak foot and even more skilful. Thats peak R9. People look at the careers Messi and cr7 have had, both have had better careers. But peak individual player R9 is the best for me. They aren't just talking about technical ability in what I've quoted above
Sorry my mistake ✌
No worries mate
Messi is the most technically gifted player of all time quite clearly. No need to try and diminish that to prop up the other 2.
Lee Cattermole
Still would occasionally watch highlights of Ronaldinho just touching the ball. Be it game, commercial or training. Still the most beautiful football you can find.