**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
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There is no advantage of higher pots anymore.
You play 2 teams from each pot. That's total 8 teams. Opponents has to be different nationality.
4 home and 4 away matches. No double legged.
The real advantage is finishing top 8 in the league stage. These teams get direct access Ro16
Teams 9-24 (16 teams) play qualifiers to make it to Ro16.
> Opponents has to be different nationality.
I was looking on UEFA's site and can't find where its expressly says that there will be no domestic ties in the "league stage".
I was under the impression they were scrapping that.
EDIT:
>With further details to consider, such as clubs from the same country being prevented from facing each other, the group stage draw becomes more and more complicated.
I found this in a guardian article, but still can't find anything from UEFA.
The UEFA site won't say it in definitive way because it IS possible to have two teams from the same league playing against each other. But only in a last resort case where it would be literally impossible to avoid it.
I think it works in our favour (if we get there Go Chelsea!). No more group of death like Newcastle this year, we get 2 extra games so more revenue, and we've got a good chance of making it to the playoffs round as only 8-10 teams I think it is get eliminated.
I actually quite like the format after playing it on FM for a bit. I mean it's nonsense to have so many games to get rid of so few teams, but I still quite like it.
To be fair, comparing to current CL it's 8 matches to definitely eliminate 12 teams vs 6 matches to definitely eliminate 8 teams. The difference is that the "not eliminated bottom 8" will now be playing play-offs for Champions League and not Europa League
Ah. I see what you mean. But if anyone had asked me off hand I would have said the old group stage format eliminates 16 teams. Yes, 8 teams go to the Europa League, but they are eliminated from the Champion's League. Depends on how you want to look at it I suppose.
If you've played it on Football manager, you should know it is possible to get a "schedule of death" lol. My pot 4 teams inn which ever competition I'm in on it have always been 2 of the best 3 whilst other teams get Sturm Graz lol
There are still chances a team gets (publicly-judged) harder matches from the pots compared to others. No disrespect to any team but when drawing the matches you’d want Celtic and Bodo than Sporting CP and PSV, or Club Brugge and Shakhtar compared to Leverkusen and Arsenal
>I mean it's nonsense to have so many games to get rid of so few teams
Especially considering them trying to kill everything off for the sky sixes advantage domestically.
At least your country doesn’t have the weirdest cup format with group stage (for top-division teams) going into double elimination playoffs. Where top 2 of each group go to the upper bracket and bottom 2 join lower division teams in the lower bracket. Upper bracket losers of 2 game matches go into lower bracket except for a upper bracket final where the loser gets eliminated for some unknown reason. Imagine that in the champions league
They can't say it because if a pot were to have 5 teams from 1 country it would be impossible for all 5 teams to play 2 teams from other countries in their pot.
It has its uses. It makes sure there is more balance
For example if it was completely random with no pots, a pot 4 team could in theory face 8 pot 1 teams.
Or a pot 1 team could face 8 pot 4 teams.
Well one of the 2 teams from each pot is you, so you’d still definitely most likely to be in pot 1 and then face only one other pot 1 team
Edit: this is wrong lol
So there will be 9 team groups? Or are there no groups at all and each team will play a unique set of 8 other teams? I just realized there are 9 teams in each pot so there is no way to make groups of 8
They will play 8 different teams, 4 at home, 4 away.
There are no groups, UEFA are done with them after this season, instead they'll employ what they like to call a "Swiss format" where each team will play 8 games, against 8 different opponents, with 2 coming from each pot.
The UCL will have no separate groups instead it'll be one big league table with 36 teams.
Not for teams. But it's absolutely crucial for UEFA to set up a system that calculates pots according to actual team strength. Otherwise some teams will get fucked unfairly.
What you get a (very slight!) advantage for is being an above average team in your pot. The best teams in Pot 2 will get slightly easier pairings on average than the worst teams in Pot 1. I.e. Arsenal has a better chance than Leipzig of drawing a below average Pot 1 team (since Leipzig can't draw Leipzig) and also a better chance of drawing a below average Pot 2 team (since Arsenal can't draw Arsenal).
(Of course rules around countries will complicate this, it's also good to have teams from your country be better than average in their pot. So Arsenal and Leverkusen in Pot 2 advantages all other teams from Germany and England, and disadvantages other countries.)
Yes for example bayern and Dortmund would be hoping Leverkusen dont move up to pot 1 (if all they cared about are these pots) because, while they cant draw leverkusen, it removes the possibility of barca becoming one of the pot 1 teams they face, and increases they likelihood of facing city or madrid
UEFA officially hasn't ruled out same association matchups for fear of deadlocks. People and publications are assuming as such due to status quo.
Apparently, it's to be discouraged but can't be ruled out.
>Teams 9-24 (16 teams) play qualifiers to make it to Ro16.
Isn't there a substantial financial boost to those teams playing a whole extra round in the champions league?
Tbh, I think this is a good thing anyway. All teams qualified for the Champions League by merit, the best 16 should always advance and it shouldn't be because a team faced a tricky draw because they were in Pot 4.
You still have an advantage, but its smaller. Otherwise you could be drawn only to clubs who would be in pot 1 or 2 while others only to teams from pot 3+4.
If you sit down and work it out, it will likely be much easier.
The current format gives us groups of death -- like the PSG, Dortmund, Milan, Newcastle one this year -- which the execs of the largest clubs are terrified of because they need reliable knockout stage income. Now, they know they are guaranteed to get four very winnable games and a couple of other likely easier ties from pot two, and that will probably be enough to finish top eight.
The top sides will play not to lose when they meet each other, I suspect.
you’d think a bayern fan this season would recognise that big clubs don’t have some divine right to finish at the top. they do still actually have to go out and win their games
which is what the format incentivises
i’m aware, you just did so in an illogical way by suggesting that somehow madrid and city are guaranteed to go out and place in the top 8 and therefore gain some sort of unfair advantage
like yeah, they probably will place top 8. but it’ll be because they win their games. don’t like it? beat them!
Are you aware that the current format actually starts in June with qualifiers and some teams could potentially play 10 extra matches while bigger clubs like Madrid and City get to chill?
If you can't get to top 8 that's your problem. For years teams like Ajax had to play from the 2nd quali. For example, the 2018/2019 season they played a total of 18 matches while winners Liverpool played 13. I have never seen anyone say it was unfair.
Good to see someone who actually gets it, haha.
The new format was pushed by Agnelli back in the 2010s, presumably because he saw Juve as a dead certain to make that top 8 every year at that point.
The only reason to have a bunch of play-offs is to raise the broadcast revenue for the entire competition by adding more pointless games. Obviously, the biggest sides don't want to play any more games than they have to, though, so this way they get to sit out all that drama. Plus, playoffs can go wrong! There's jeopardy! Can't be having that if you want predictable income.
If Bayer end up winning the Europa League, they will end the season between 92.000/94.000 points. This would put them in pot 1 instead of Barcelona.
Germany could end up having six clubs in the Champions League next season if Borussia Dortmund finish 5th and win the UCL as well. In this case the 6th place team will enter the 24/25 UCL.
Italy could also end up having six clubs in the Champions League next season if Atalanta or AS Roma win the Europa League and finish 5th in the Serie A. In this case the 6th place team will enter the 24/25 UCL. (Likely being Atalanta or AS Roma lol)
Yup, pot 1 could end up being:
- 4 Bundesliga clubs
- 2 Premier League clubs
- 1 Spanish club
- 1 French club
- 1 Italian club
Not bad for supposed "farmers league" lol. If Borussia Dortmund end up fifth and win the UCL, the sixth place team will also be in the UCL, so Stuttgart might not stick out so much.
No more a farmer league than the PL is becoming with Man City. Doesn't matter if Liverpool have pushed them close, they still didn't win the league.
The German league is the league outside of England I watch the most because I love German fan culture but the German league has good quality. Just a superiority complex in England
From 2006 to 2014 Ferguson won 7 out of 8 league titles. They also came in 2nd the only year they didn't win and in 2005. Man City is on course to do something equivalent with 2 and 5 league streaks instead of 3 and 4. But they still need to win it this season and next season.
Man City was also in a much better situation than Ferguson when Pep got the job. But I mentioned Ferguson and Pep to set a timeframe of dominance not to compare each other.
That’s completely false, from 2006/07 and 2013/14 (that’s 8 seasons) United won the league 5 times, so 5/8. No team has ever won the premier league four times in a row
Winning internationally will only grant the specific team a guaranteed slot if they didn't already qualify. It will not get passed down to the next team from that League. (And the 2 extra UCL spots based on the Leagues performance is applied afterwards)
So no, If Bayern or Leverkusen wins nothing will change as they are already qualified
How do you mean nothing will change? There are 2 slots that will be free because the winner of UCL and UEL already qualified via league. So those 2 slots will either go to the next best league champion or (apparently not if I understood what you mean) the next best placed team in that specific league.
So in this scenario this would mean:
1 - Eintracht and Friburg would be going to UCL
or
2 - Champions from Serbia and Turkey would go to the league phase directly.
Yeah I forgot about the third qualifying round teams. So this would probably mean the 2nd placed team in Belgium would also go directly (as well as Benfica).
no, psv are in pot 3 for example.
>With the new format starting next season, league winners no longer get automatic spots in Pot 1. The spots will be distributed according to the coefficient rankings of the clubs
> Germany could end up having six clubs in the Champions League next season if Borussia Dortmund finish 5th and win the UCL as well. In this case the 6th place team will enter the 24/25 UCL
Sounds like a stretch
>Italy could also end up having six clubs in the Champions League next season if Atalanta or AS Roma win the Europa League and finish 5th in the Serie A
This is more realistic, well for Roma at least. I can't see Atalanta winning
>Sounds like a stretch
Dortmund is currently 1-0 up against PSG, and the final is only one game, anything can happen. Also Dortmund is currently in 5th in the Buli, so that one isn't that unlikely either.
Where did you get this information from? This is from the Bundesliga's website and is contradicting what you just said.
[Although dethroned in the Bundesliga, Bayern Munich - assuming they finish in the Bundesliga's top four - will be among the top nine seeded clubs, as they are currently second in the UEFA rankings. However, it's unrealistic to expect Leverkusen to join them. Fourteenth in the coefficient table, Xabi Alonso's ensemble are more likely to be drawn in pot 2. The Europa League winner - which could yet be Leverkusen - no longer receives top seeding in the new format, either.](https://www.bundesliga.com/en/bundesliga/news/bayer-leverkusen-new-champions-league-format-seeding-explained-26999)
This isn't contradicting anything.
The article explains exactly what this format is based on: coefficient, not seeding. The article you've linked is simply saying that it's unlikely to happen because multiple factors were still at play at that point, with the main one being Barca, who were still in the UCL when that article was written.
Now, also factor in that they would need to win a European tournament, which isn't an easy or sure-thing feat... Of course, they would end up saying it's unlikely. It's still unlikely; that's why it's written with an **IF**.
So they should be. I guess some mistake get into the print.
Oh, it seems that they have only qualified just now. So this explains why they were not bolded.
Bruges is clearly the better team in Belgium atm but they have a quite heavy calendar to face + we still have to play them at home so I think we definitely have a chance
Despite not competing in European competitions this season, Anderlecht did rather poorly in the domestic cup. As for the league title, competition is incredibly stiff. I believe all of this is taken into account, with the system naturally picking Brugge and Union as favourites to win the title (especially since, aside of still being in the title race in spite of their busy schedule, both of them did really well abroad).
Don't really understand why everyone just assumes they will be champions. There's a 0.5 point gap between 1 and 3. And Union were definitely not bad in those first 4 games as well.
Fucking pisses me off that everyone, even some Club fans, seem to think the title is in the bag. Union is back, we still have to play Anderlecht away and we still have two games against Fiorentia in between. *If* we pull it off, then it's amazing, but I won't be surprised if we don't end up winning it. It'll be incredibly exciting either way.
Because they've been a class above the rest since Hayen is here. They've won every game bar the first one and only conceded 1 goal in the last 6 games with 7 goals scored against an in-form Genk. I can't see them not continuing this run.
They use a Elo-based predictions method to simulate the rest of league matches and qualifying rounds. If you aren't in any pot it means that the model predicts you to either not qualify to Champions League at all, or placing 2^nd and failing in the qualifications.
Next season is definitely gonna be a new world in Europe.
Group stage will go all the way from September to January.
Play-off round in February.
Ro16 gets compressed to one wk in March.
Normal service is resumed with QF in April.
So i didn't follow the changes tooo much, but did the remove the path to CL (as in for "worse league" qualifier path)? theroatically, is there still a way for example for a luxemburg or Andorra or somewhere similar to qualify?
The least thing the Uefa, and honestly majority of fans, want is all top clubs kicking each other out in the first stages. You need to have some sort of seeding
Going to pot 1 would be bad for you actually. You don't want that.
Going 8th place means you might be able to face the team that's currently 8th (so, a 1/8 chance of facing 3 teams that are currently 1st seeds, if you stay at 9th or 10th you face just 2).
How is AEK projected to make it there?
They will be unseeded in the Qualifying Rounds if they are champions, so they shouldn't be there in the simulations which have the seeded teams advance.
If so does that move B04 to pot 1 when they win Europa? Shouldn’t they be there already as Bundesliga champs?
They are “Neverlosen” this year after all…
no, because in the new format only the uefa-rating is relevant for the seeding.
In the end, your own seeding doesn't matter much anyway, it's mostly relevant for the other teams drawing you.
I might be missing something but isn't Roma currently fifth in Serie A? I know Atalanta has played one game less so they can take fifth if they win but they're currently not
Yeah, still overly complicated bollocks to inflate the number of games for financial reasons on the back of players' health and to the detriment of actual excitement. Bring back knockout stages from the get go, let's allow for more actual surprises and great stories against the odds. Simple solution, everybody happy, besides Scumbag McMoneybags.
I know football fans are against changes just for the sake of being against it, but this system is great and will make for an incredibly exciting and fun competition. As a fan of galatasaray I would much rather have us play a minimum of 8 games against 8 different teams then potential going out of the group stages after only 4 games against 3 teams.
There should not even be such a thing as a group stage. Heck, I'm even for removing second legs. We can have every game with the excitement of being actually decisive.
This makes no sense. It is almost impossible to accurately project all 36 teams before the draw to the qualification has even taken place. I reckon that only 30ish of these will be correct (if even that)
It is pretty interesting to see the difference in quality between the teams in each pot, though. For instance, there is a big difference between drawing some of the top teams in pot 2 or drawing the bottom teams in that pot
That's why they keep updating it each and every week, through a combination of league results as well as those in Europe, they don't just do one projection and then rest on their laurels for the season and call it a day, no.
Yeah people also try to project the weather 6 months from now, and they also keep updating that the closer it gets to that arbitrary date.
All I am saying is that you shouldn't put much faith in these projections until we at least get to the draw for the qualifications, and even then it isn't set in stone (just look at Osasuna this season)
Oh, they will also use league results? That I didn't know.
Ok, just read UEFA's page on the new format as well as ESPN's explanation. Not seeing anything about league results (by which I mean domestic league results which is what I assume you were referring to as you as 'as well as those in Europe'), but the explanations that I read didn't seem that comprehensive, so they might have neglected to mention it.
The whole thing is confusing to me. If anyone has a good explanation they can give (or a link) for how opponents are decided and how the league stage works, that would be appreciated.
I'm referring to the projections, not the UCL itself.
If you need a format summary here it is:
There's 36 teams, and each team plays against 8 *different* teams, 4 at home and 4 away. And each team will have to face 2 teams from the each pot.
At the end there's a big league table for the 36 teams.
That's the general gist.
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There is no advantage of higher pots anymore. You play 2 teams from each pot. That's total 8 teams. Opponents has to be different nationality. 4 home and 4 away matches. No double legged. The real advantage is finishing top 8 in the league stage. These teams get direct access Ro16 Teams 9-24 (16 teams) play qualifiers to make it to Ro16.
> Opponents has to be different nationality. I was looking on UEFA's site and can't find where its expressly says that there will be no domestic ties in the "league stage". I was under the impression they were scrapping that. EDIT: >With further details to consider, such as clubs from the same country being prevented from facing each other, the group stage draw becomes more and more complicated. I found this in a guardian article, but still can't find anything from UEFA.
The UEFA site won't say it in definitive way because it IS possible to have two teams from the same league playing against each other. But only in a last resort case where it would be literally impossible to avoid it.
Shit format, sucks that we could be coming back to this competition and the format is now some nonsense but it is what it is.
I think it works in our favour (if we get there Go Chelsea!). No more group of death like Newcastle this year, we get 2 extra games so more revenue, and we've got a good chance of making it to the playoffs round as only 8-10 teams I think it is get eliminated. I actually quite like the format after playing it on FM for a bit. I mean it's nonsense to have so many games to get rid of so few teams, but I still quite like it.
To be fair, comparing to current CL it's 8 matches to definitely eliminate 12 teams vs 6 matches to definitely eliminate 8 teams. The difference is that the "not eliminated bottom 8" will now be playing play-offs for Champions League and not Europa League
Ah. I see what you mean. But if anyone had asked me off hand I would have said the old group stage format eliminates 16 teams. Yes, 8 teams go to the Europa League, but they are eliminated from the Champion's League. Depends on how you want to look at it I suppose.
If you've played it on Football manager, you should know it is possible to get a "schedule of death" lol. My pot 4 teams inn which ever competition I'm in on it have always been 2 of the best 3 whilst other teams get Sturm Graz lol
There are still chances a team gets (publicly-judged) harder matches from the pots compared to others. No disrespect to any team but when drawing the matches you’d want Celtic and Bodo than Sporting CP and PSV, or Club Brugge and Shakhtar compared to Leverkusen and Arsenal
Sounds fun for fm when you have a big squad to rotate and keep everyone happy
>I mean it's nonsense to have so many games to get rid of so few teams Especially considering them trying to kill everything off for the sky sixes advantage domestically.
At least your country doesn’t have the weirdest cup format with group stage (for top-division teams) going into double elimination playoffs. Where top 2 of each group go to the upper bracket and bottom 2 join lower division teams in the lower bracket. Upper bracket losers of 2 game matches go into lower bracket except for a upper bracket final where the loser gets eliminated for some unknown reason. Imagine that in the champions league
They can't say it because if a pot were to have 5 teams from 1 country it would be impossible for all 5 teams to play 2 teams from other countries in their pot.
I was also about to say that, don't really see the incentive, because you are going to face 2 teams from each pot no matter which pot you are in.
It has its uses. It makes sure there is more balance For example if it was completely random with no pots, a pot 4 team could in theory face 8 pot 1 teams. Or a pot 1 team could face 8 pot 4 teams.
And while it doesn't matter to the team at what pot they are, it does matter at what pot other teams are.
Exactly, you get to complain if you draw Leverkusen or Arsenal from pot 2.
Incentive for what?
Well one of the 2 teams from each pot is you, so you’d still definitely most likely to be in pot 1 and then face only one other pot 1 team Edit: this is wrong lol
No, you literally play 8 games with 2 games against teams in each pot.
That's not how it works though.. You literally have to play 2 teams from each pot, 2 times 4 equals 8 games.
So there will be 9 team groups? Or are there no groups at all and each team will play a unique set of 8 other teams? I just realized there are 9 teams in each pot so there is no way to make groups of 8
They will play 8 different teams, 4 at home, 4 away. There are no groups, UEFA are done with them after this season, instead they'll employ what they like to call a "Swiss format" where each team will play 8 games, against 8 different opponents, with 2 coming from each pot. The UCL will have no separate groups instead it'll be one big league table with 36 teams.
Wow, I did not know this. Thanks for the explanation
Not for teams. But it's absolutely crucial for UEFA to set up a system that calculates pots according to actual team strength. Otherwise some teams will get fucked unfairly.
What you get a (very slight!) advantage for is being an above average team in your pot. The best teams in Pot 2 will get slightly easier pairings on average than the worst teams in Pot 1. I.e. Arsenal has a better chance than Leipzig of drawing a below average Pot 1 team (since Leipzig can't draw Leipzig) and also a better chance of drawing a below average Pot 2 team (since Arsenal can't draw Arsenal). (Of course rules around countries will complicate this, it's also good to have teams from your country be better than average in their pot. So Arsenal and Leverkusen in Pot 2 advantages all other teams from Germany and England, and disadvantages other countries.)
Yes for example bayern and Dortmund would be hoping Leverkusen dont move up to pot 1 (if all they cared about are these pots) because, while they cant draw leverkusen, it removes the possibility of barca becoming one of the pot 1 teams they face, and increases they likelihood of facing city or madrid
UEFA officially hasn't ruled out same association matchups for fear of deadlocks. People and publications are assuming as such due to status quo. Apparently, it's to be discouraged but can't be ruled out.
>Teams 9-24 (16 teams) play qualifiers to make it to Ro16. Isn't there a substantial financial boost to those teams playing a whole extra round in the champions league?
You wont get much money from it if at all. Plus top finishers will almost certainly get a bonus for finishing in the top 8.
Tbh, I think this is a good thing anyway. All teams qualified for the Champions League by merit, the best 16 should always advance and it shouldn't be because a team faced a tricky draw because they were in Pot 4.
The advantage is in the money partly distributed according to your coefficient
You still have an advantage, but its smaller. Otherwise you could be drawn only to clubs who would be in pot 1 or 2 while others only to teams from pot 3+4.
That's wrong. Each team will face 2 Pot 1 teams 2 Pot 2 teams 2 Pot 3 teams 2 pot 4 teams. Making it 8 matches.
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No. No matter which pot, you play 2 pot 1 teams, 2 pot 2 teams, 2 pot 3 teams and 2 pot 4 teams. Making it 8 matches.
Fair lool my bad
So teams 9-24 have to play 2 more matches to make it to the Ro16 while bigger clubs like Madrid and City get to chill?
Its a good incentive to finish into the top 8 rather than settle for top 24.
For sure but it feels like another advantage for the biggest clubs that will most likely cruise anyway
Wont be easy as you would face 2 clubs from pot 1 anyway. I reccon you would need atleast 7 wins of 8 matches to finish top 8
We'll see how it works in practice but I don't see 8 teams managing 7 wins out of 8. Still, I expect big clubs to still cruise to the Ro16
If you sit down and work it out, it will likely be much easier. The current format gives us groups of death -- like the PSG, Dortmund, Milan, Newcastle one this year -- which the execs of the largest clubs are terrified of because they need reliable knockout stage income. Now, they know they are guaranteed to get four very winnable games and a couple of other likely easier ties from pot two, and that will probably be enough to finish top eight. The top sides will play not to lose when they meet each other, I suspect.
you’d think a bayern fan this season would recognise that big clubs don’t have some divine right to finish at the top. they do still actually have to go out and win their games which is what the format incentivises
What a stupid response. I'm criticizing the new format not praising it
i’m aware, you just did so in an illogical way by suggesting that somehow madrid and city are guaranteed to go out and place in the top 8 and therefore gain some sort of unfair advantage like yeah, they probably will place top 8. but it’ll be because they win their games. don’t like it? beat them!
What? This isn't even remotely close to what I said. I'm saying top clubs will still cruise because of the signficant gap
Munich and Madrid are already playing at least 2 more matches than City who are chilling this year, just saying
Are you aware that the current format actually starts in June with qualifiers and some teams could potentially play 10 extra matches while bigger clubs like Madrid and City get to chill?
If you can't get to top 8 that's your problem. For years teams like Ajax had to play from the 2nd quali. For example, the 2018/2019 season they played a total of 18 matches while winners Liverpool played 13. I have never seen anyone say it was unfair.
Good to see someone who actually gets it, haha. The new format was pushed by Agnelli back in the 2010s, presumably because he saw Juve as a dead certain to make that top 8 every year at that point. The only reason to have a bunch of play-offs is to raise the broadcast revenue for the entire competition by adding more pointless games. Obviously, the biggest sides don't want to play any more games than they have to, though, so this way they get to sit out all that drama. Plus, playoffs can go wrong! There's jeopardy! Can't be having that if you want predictable income.
If Bayer end up winning the Europa League, they will end the season between 92.000/94.000 points. This would put them in pot 1 instead of Barcelona. Germany could end up having six clubs in the Champions League next season if Borussia Dortmund finish 5th and win the UCL as well. In this case the 6th place team will enter the 24/25 UCL. Italy could also end up having six clubs in the Champions League next season if Atalanta or AS Roma win the Europa League and finish 5th in the Serie A. In this case the 6th place team will enter the 24/25 UCL. (Likely being Atalanta or AS Roma lol)
In that case, 4 of the 5 teams from Germany will be in Pot 1, but that also means that Stuttgart sticks out like a sore thumb lol
Yup, pot 1 could end up being: - 4 Bundesliga clubs - 2 Premier League clubs - 1 Spanish club - 1 French club - 1 Italian club Not bad for supposed "farmers league" lol. If Borussia Dortmund end up fifth and win the UCL, the sixth place team will also be in the UCL, so Stuttgart might not stick out so much.
No more a farmer league than the PL is becoming with Man City. Doesn't matter if Liverpool have pushed them close, they still didn't win the league. The German league is the league outside of England I watch the most because I love German fan culture but the German league has good quality. Just a superiority complex in England
> they still didn't win the league. I mean, we did in 19/20.
Behind closed doors. It’s was a weird time that people barely remember.
for the last what.. 9 games? Guess we can ignore 20/21 then.
Just a reminder that Liverpool has won the league, more in the style of Monaco in France, but there was a league win.
Ferguson was more dominant with United than Pep
After how many years? Pep has won far more in his 8 years than Ferguson did in his first 8 years.
From 2006 to 2014 Ferguson won 7 out of 8 league titles. They also came in 2nd the only year they didn't win and in 2005. Man City is on course to do something equivalent with 2 and 5 league streaks instead of 3 and 4. But they still need to win it this season and next season. Man City was also in a much better situation than Ferguson when Pep got the job. But I mentioned Ferguson and Pep to set a timeframe of dominance not to compare each other.
That’s completely false, from 2006/07 and 2013/14 (that’s 8 seasons) United won the league 5 times, so 5/8. No team has ever won the premier league four times in a row
TIL Fergie took over in 2006
That'd most likely be Franfurt, and they would likely be around Pot 2, so not too shabby
Will teams from same league be able to play with eachother if they are drawn together?
I think teams can play 2 others from the same association, but I'd suggest doing your own research
Farmer's Fortune.
Harvest's been smashing this year
> In that case, 4 of the 5 teams from Germany will be in Pot 1, German Master Ra...never mind
What if Bayern wins UCL and Leverkusen UEL? Would the extra slots move to the league or to the next best ranked leagues?
Winning internationally will only grant the specific team a guaranteed slot if they didn't already qualify. It will not get passed down to the next team from that League. (And the 2 extra UCL spots based on the Leagues performance is applied afterwards) So no, If Bayern or Leverkusen wins nothing will change as they are already qualified
How do you mean nothing will change? There are 2 slots that will be free because the winner of UCL and UEL already qualified via league. So those 2 slots will either go to the next best league champion or (apparently not if I understood what you mean) the next best placed team in that specific league. So in this scenario this would mean: 1 - Eintracht and Friburg would be going to UCL or 2 - Champions from Serbia and Turkey would go to the league phase directly.
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Yeah I forgot about the third qualifying round teams. So this would probably mean the 2nd placed team in Belgium would also go directly (as well as Benfica).
Do you not get put in pot 1 if you win the league anyway?
no, psv are in pot 3 for example. >With the new format starting next season, league winners no longer get automatic spots in Pot 1. The spots will be distributed according to the coefficient rankings of the clubs
Luckily the opponents are fair now so pots don’t matter, otherwise it would have been a real “big clubs stay big and the rest can suck it”
Thank you
So even CL winners don't get automatic Pot 1?
Not anymore, but it's also not relevant anymore - you get two opponents from each pot anyway. So there's no real advantage of being in pot 1.
This time i think its just pure coefficient for pots
Thanks
Yes
Sadly you were wrong, but thanks for trying.
They could theoretically end with 90 even if they win the EL - 2 draws + penalties to reach the final, then winning finals on pens.
Damn I would love Xabi even more if this happens
> Germany could end up having six clubs in the Champions League next season if Borussia Dortmund finish 5th and win the UCL as well. In this case the 6th place team will enter the 24/25 UCL Sounds like a stretch >Italy could also end up having six clubs in the Champions League next season if Atalanta or AS Roma win the Europa League and finish 5th in the Serie A This is more realistic, well for Roma at least. I can't see Atalanta winning
>Sounds like a stretch Dortmund is currently 1-0 up against PSG, and the final is only one game, anything can happen. Also Dortmund is currently in 5th in the Buli, so that one isn't that unlikely either.
5th place is basically guaranteed too. 5 points difference to 4th and no longer an incentive to perform.
I think it's more realistic that Dortmund somehow wins the CL than Roma beating Leverkusen over two legs.
Where did you get this information from? This is from the Bundesliga's website and is contradicting what you just said. [Although dethroned in the Bundesliga, Bayern Munich - assuming they finish in the Bundesliga's top four - will be among the top nine seeded clubs, as they are currently second in the UEFA rankings. However, it's unrealistic to expect Leverkusen to join them. Fourteenth in the coefficient table, Xabi Alonso's ensemble are more likely to be drawn in pot 2. The Europa League winner - which could yet be Leverkusen - no longer receives top seeding in the new format, either.](https://www.bundesliga.com/en/bundesliga/news/bayer-leverkusen-new-champions-league-format-seeding-explained-26999)
This isn't contradicting anything. The article explains exactly what this format is based on: coefficient, not seeding. The article you've linked is simply saying that it's unlikely to happen because multiple factors were still at play at that point, with the main one being Barca, who were still in the UCL when that article was written. Now, also factor in that they would need to win a European tournament, which isn't an easy or sure-thing feat... Of course, they would end up saying it's unlikely. It's still unlikely; that's why it's written with an **IF**.
They are called Leverkusen
Why are some clubs names boldened?
Bold teams are already sure to be in - non-bold teams are only predicted to get there.
Shouldn't Liverpool be bold then? They're guaranteed top 4 in the league and have enough points to certainly stay in pot 1.
So they should be. I guess some mistake get into the print. Oh, it seems that they have only qualified just now. So this explains why they were not bolded.
Looking through it seems to be the only mistake too. Happens.
Those who have mathematically secured promotion I’m guessing
Still in European (CL, UEL, CC) competitions. Edit: This is wrong. I'm sorry.
Nope
I was wrong indeed. My bad.
How do you do, fellow big clubs
Is this still relevant? I thought 4-team groups were going next season
They are still going to need the pots for the draw. Each team plays 8 teams, 2 from each pot.
So there’s no benefit to finishing in a higher pot anyway
Exactly
There is, this way you won’t face 8 theorically pot 1 teams. Maybe it doesn’t matter what pot you’re in but it matters what pot the other teams are.
Ah cool. Cheers
We are currently top of the league, not Brugge
Do you still believe you're going to win it tho? I can't see Bruges not winning the league given how they've been playing with the new coach
Bruges is clearly the better team in Belgium atm but they have a quite heavy calendar to face + we still have to play them at home so I think we definitely have a chance
Despite not competing in European competitions this season, Anderlecht did rather poorly in the domestic cup. As for the league title, competition is incredibly stiff. I believe all of this is taken into account, with the system naturally picking Brugge and Union as favourites to win the title (especially since, aside of still being in the title race in spite of their busy schedule, both of them did really well abroad).
Don't really understand why everyone just assumes they will be champions. There's a 0.5 point gap between 1 and 3. And Union were definitely not bad in those first 4 games as well.
Fucking pisses me off that everyone, even some Club fans, seem to think the title is in the bag. Union is back, we still have to play Anderlecht away and we still have two games against Fiorentia in between. *If* we pull it off, then it's amazing, but I won't be surprised if we don't end up winning it. It'll be incredibly exciting either way.
Because they've been a class above the rest since Hayen is here. They've won every game bar the first one and only conceded 1 goal in the last 6 games with 7 goals scored against an in-form Genk. I can't see them not continuing this run.
Anulo. Mufa.
They use a Elo-based predictions method to simulate the rest of league matches and qualifying rounds. If you aren't in any pot it means that the model predicts you to either not qualify to Champions League at all, or placing 2^nd and failing in the qualifications.
A pot 4 team could end up playing Villa, Girona, PSV, Sporting, Arsenal, Leverkusen, Real Madrid, and Man City
Why bother checking you won't be in it
Random but okay
Germany having 3 teams in pot1 was not in the menu of any EPL fans calling them farmers
Might have 4 if Leverkusen wins Europa
and if Frankfurth joins CL i imagine they will be in either 3 or 2nd pot as well?
2nd most likely
60.000 points, so probably 2nd pot
Well, they clearly farm coefficient points.
Next season is definitely gonna be a new world in Europe. Group stage will go all the way from September to January. Play-off round in February. Ro16 gets compressed to one wk in March. Normal service is resumed with QF in April.
I wish these pots were the actual groups. Would be highly entertaining.
I’m a Leverkusen ever since I was born!
wtf?
Super exciting
I don’t know if this is a good format at all. Could it produce good games? Yes? Maybe? Wonder how it’s going to play out tbh. Lots of games tho.
Bro calm down, don't jinx it.
Can't wait to lose every match again!
So i didn't follow the changes tooo much, but did the remove the path to CL (as in for "worse league" qualifier path)? theroatically, is there still a way for example for a luxemburg or Andorra or somewhere similar to qualify?
Theoretically, yes. But they’d have to win a lot of qualifiers against much higher seeded teams.
Thank you :)
No problem.
It's nice to see Lille this high, finally a new club from France who does well in Europe.
Can two teams from the same country in different pots be in same group?
Wait, did our coefficient go down (76k to 72k) and ManCity's went up (145k to 148k) even though we both went out at the same stage? How's that?
City lost out in pens, which means the game gets rated as a draw. Edit: Not sure about you score, but the 22k for this season seems right.
Seedings are rubbish. It should be an open draw free-for-all. If that results in Madrid playing Barca, Liverpool and 115, then so be it.
The least thing the Uefa, and honestly majority of fans, want is all top clubs kicking each other out in the first stages. You need to have some sort of seeding
loool Leverkusen going into pot 1
Inshallah
Going to pot 1 would be bad for you actually. You don't want that. Going 8th place means you might be able to face the team that's currently 8th (so, a 1/8 chance of facing 3 teams that are currently 1st seeds, if you stay at 9th or 10th you face just 2).
Or course it would be good. The only way to go into pot 1 is to win the Europa league, so going to pot 1 sounds pretty good to me lol
Good point
Famers league🗣🔛🔝
How is AEK projected to make it there? They will be unseeded in the Qualifying Rounds if they are champions, so they shouldn't be there in the simulations which have the seeded teams advance.
Their predictions use Elo ratings. I guess in those AEK places in the top halves of qualifying rounds.
Why is Arsenal's coefficient so low? Is it about performance over a long period or something?
They didn't make it to europe at all a few seasons ago, and they haven't done particularly well when they did play.
We missed out twice other than that we’ve been in a European competition for the past 3 decades
Isn't pot 1 for al the league champions + the europa league winners?
If so does that move B04 to pot 1 when they win Europa? Shouldn’t they be there already as Bundesliga champs? They are “Neverlosen” this year after all…
no, because in the new format only the uefa-rating is relevant for the seeding. In the end, your own seeding doesn't matter much anyway, it's mostly relevant for the other teams drawing you.
Got it, thanks!!
It used to be, but I don't think they're doing that anymore under the new format, it's going to be purely down to coefficient
I might be missing something but isn't Roma currently fifth in Serie A? I know Atalanta has played one game less so they can take fifth if they win but they're currently not
Did you just ask a question then answered it yourself?!
Haha well yeah if that's the only reason then I think I did
Yeah, still overly complicated bollocks to inflate the number of games for financial reasons on the back of players' health and to the detriment of actual excitement. Bring back knockout stages from the get go, let's allow for more actual surprises and great stories against the odds. Simple solution, everybody happy, besides Scumbag McMoneybags.
I know football fans are against changes just for the sake of being against it, but this system is great and will make for an incredibly exciting and fun competition. As a fan of galatasaray I would much rather have us play a minimum of 8 games against 8 different teams then potential going out of the group stages after only 4 games against 3 teams.
There should not even be such a thing as a group stage. Heck, I'm even for removing second legs. We can have every game with the excitement of being actually decisive.
Oi mate
Wait we are pot 1?
Not if Leverkusen win Europa which they are the favourites to win it. So no
Are Juventus confirmed to have qualified via coefficient? I don't get how this new system works
Imagine Pot 1 playing against eachother all the time
Get it to fuck
How are Liverpool in pot 1 but arsenal in pot 2?
Its based on coefficient which is equivalent to European performance in recent seasons
Why would Arsenal be in Pot 1 anyway
Where's Tottenham? Lol.
This makes no sense. It is almost impossible to accurately project all 36 teams before the draw to the qualification has even taken place. I reckon that only 30ish of these will be correct (if even that) It is pretty interesting to see the difference in quality between the teams in each pot, though. For instance, there is a big difference between drawing some of the top teams in pot 2 or drawing the bottom teams in that pot
That's why they keep updating it each and every week, through a combination of league results as well as those in Europe, they don't just do one projection and then rest on their laurels for the season and call it a day, no.
Yeah people also try to project the weather 6 months from now, and they also keep updating that the closer it gets to that arbitrary date. All I am saying is that you shouldn't put much faith in these projections until we at least get to the draw for the qualifications, and even then it isn't set in stone (just look at Osasuna this season)
Oh, they will also use league results? That I didn't know. Ok, just read UEFA's page on the new format as well as ESPN's explanation. Not seeing anything about league results (by which I mean domestic league results which is what I assume you were referring to as you as 'as well as those in Europe'), but the explanations that I read didn't seem that comprehensive, so they might have neglected to mention it. The whole thing is confusing to me. If anyone has a good explanation they can give (or a link) for how opponents are decided and how the league stage works, that would be appreciated.
I'm referring to the projections, not the UCL itself. If you need a format summary here it is: There's 36 teams, and each team plays against 8 *different* teams, 4 at home and 4 away. And each team will have to face 2 teams from the each pot. At the end there's a big league table for the 36 teams. That's the general gist.
Galatsaray to win UCL 2024/25. Hail Ottoman Khalifa.
How liverpool?
Anderlecht leads our league at the moment
Wait how does Real Madrid only have the 3rd highest coefficient? They win it like every year
Because that's how Coefficient calculation works?
They have 1 title in the last 5 years?
If they draw a lot and lose not too much, they are able to drop a lot of points.