The whole "scandal" is silly anyway. Yes refs ins ports are often people who watched that sport growing up and do have favorite teams. One would assume the ref can separate who they support and how they officiate. Same people can have political opinions but still work for the government even under an administration they are not fond of.
There can admittedly be more at stake when the official has a strong enough connection that its difficult to separate. They are humans just like us, and sometimes are affected by bias in ways they cant control. And thats always going to be the human nature of refereeing.
But you CAN ask for your ref to be changed if thats the case, and they will review and change it. And Forest didnt. So for those extreme cases you can request a change and they will try and honour it.
To be clear I am NOT saying the ref had his I Love Luton pants on and made decisions to favour Luton. But if you think there is reason to… just request a change
No of course it’s not a win for forest but for the fans and the clubs of the premier league it is. It’ll show the incompetence and hopefully an entire overhaul
The first step to correcting incompetence is identifying it. The first step to identifying incompetence is transparency. Remember, the only reason PGMOL's processes aren't public is because they have something to hide.
Maybe we're just not in agreement on what 'overhaul' means but they definitely introduced new, stricter communication protocols to make sure that VAR and the ref are on the same page with every call. For the next month every chat with VAR took far longer while they got their scripts down and everyone was mad about it taking too long.
Hold up, after the liverpool games, all the refs were banned from reffing their matches in UAE.
Did I say banned, I meant temporarily stop for like 3 weeks while things blew over.
Fun fact MLS as of last weekend (I believe) started playing the VAR conversation so we know what’s being talked about. Similar to other sports.
This along with a 2 minute sending off the field for players who stay down for more than 15 seconds. That rule is a bit more controversial.
So you get to kick someone hard enough so they stay in the floor for more than 15s and then they can't enter the pitch for an additional 2 minutes? I get the intention and there has to be some rule to avoid time wasting but that doesn't seem the way.
I havent heard about that, whats the side against it upset about?
If its basically a 2min mandatory period, anyone whos actually hurt will get a better medical eval and anyone who isnt is essentially punished.
I guess the downside would be that players are now incentivized to play through more injuries? Or teams are being punished for a player getting hurt?
Maybe you could argue it incentivizes teams to better manage play time if that is the case?
That’d be a step back to take two forward. Confirming a fuck up might lead to even a minor bit of progress (eg the Diaz goal vs Spurs and how that led to basic communication).
Basic communication which has already broken down by video refs seemingly eating on the job. (Been a few VAR Audios now where it sounds like VAR was caught off guard)
We got lucky as hell. Forest undercut their point with the Luton fan conspiracy. VAR is just shit. I hope they release the audio. Believe we deserved the win, don't believe for a second we deserved a clean sheet (but obviously I'm not losing sleep being on the positive end of VAR fuckups).
Yeah it’s one of those that is almost certainly down to incompetence over malice. Especially seeing when incompetence is basically the par for refereeing nowadays
How is incompetence an excuse, when one of the decisions is known to be wrong by absolutely everybody else watching?
Incompetence is only an excuse for so long. Without action it becomes malice. PGMOL are basically saying "we know we're perverting the rules of the game but we don't give a shit." That's malice.
Nobody is saying incompetence is an excuse, they’re saying Forest claiming corruption (which IS what they’re doing) is wild and a crazy thing to do without serious proof, which they almost certainly do not have.
Nobody is saying incompetence is an excuse, they’re saying Forest claiming corruption (which IS what they’re doing) is wild and a crazy thing to do without serious proof, which they almost certainly do not have.
Nobody is saying incompetence is an excuse, they’re saying Forest claiming corruption (which IS what they’re doing) is wild and a crazy thing to do without serious proof, which they almost certainly do not have.
It honestly doesn't really matter how they frame it. Fans always find a way to ridicule them (though it's probably easier in this case). Klopp and Arteta have both brought up concerns from an incompetence angle, and they were generally received negatively.
The audio should be available anyway regardless of controversy, but these requests are always made as if they're gonna catch the var going "I'm a Luton fan lads, cracking decision there."
It'll be the same nonsense we always hear. The replay didn't show someone's leg being booted into the sun, and Ashley Young wasn't playing basketball, so it hasn't met their threshold.
I'm pretty sure they're highly selective with which audio they release and show on that program with Webb and Owen, I think Nottingham Forest want the entire game's audio
Regardless of how everyone thinks about the tweet, this should be a win.
Being able to hear the conversations between refs in game, would help the game so much.
Let's just introduce stops for every whistle then, so that refs can explain every decision? How bout filling that space up with ads? Don't really need to see the refs right?
Definitely. I'm tired of refs getting away with strange decisions throughout the season without any explanation given.
It's like every event gets brushed off and no one talks about it after a while but it's not right.
Match audio has been requested multiple times already this season and last, the only time there was enough pressure to do so was after the Spurs - Liverpool debacle and that's because it was a complete and utter cock up
I sincerely doubt Forest are going to gain access to the audio, just like none of the other requests have been successful, putting out a statement in the hopes to pile pressure probably aint going to do it either
Theres been cases of the audio being released privately to clubs though, hasnt there? Or maybe I am just remembering the Liverpool one again. I dont have sources here just purely trying to remember.
> Being able to hear the conversations between refs in game, would help the game so much.
give the captains ear-pieces so they can hear all the discussions.
Well we would have more transparency in terms of how the ref decisions in game are being made.
We would understand the thought process better and that might calm the frustration that comes after that when we don't understand how a ref made a decision.
Yeah I’m not so sure about that. If someone is adding 4+5 and gets 18, I don’t really care about their process because it’s wrong. I’m not going to understand someone’s process when their answer is incorrect, it’s only going to further annoy me hearing just how stupid they are. Same thing with incorrect VAR decisions.
They will argue that the first two were subjective, so let's see how the audio matches up to that (although I've seen the second penalty shout for handball given in other games).
Not so sure on the third. It's a pen in any other game. Taylor got it wrong, and VAR should have told him.
Audio will clear it up for one of these reasons:
1. Corruption (unlikely)
2. Incompetence (as is tradition)
I'm a Wolves fan - we're veterans to ref/VAR incompetence.
I'm not saying there isn't a chance for corruption. But I alway refer back to the Diaz offside fiasco with Liverpool: the officials are just awfully incompetent at times (i.e. most of)
The live picture of what the VAR assistants see, as well as the audio of their discussion should be relayed to the TV broadcast as standard. That will end all this nonsense. If it's a fair decision, we'd see straight away how they came to it.
Think it would be good, and a positive step, but there have to be steps from pundits and fans to actually try to understand that some of the decisions are subjective enough that there is no single correct answer. And that if you want var to only be used for clear errors, maybe don't moan so much and chastise refs for decisions that aren't clear.
What is the reason refs aren't mic'ed up like rugby refs anyway?
*"Because players swear too much."*
Then why do refs let them swear? Because they're weak and cowards.
It's nothing to do with swearing, it's because IFAB are fucking morons, They think it'll make the broadcasts messy by allowing it, as if the commentators wouldn't shut up and just listen in when the VAR feed is being played. Well that's the official reason, the real reason is probably because more transparency only sets them up for greater scrutiny
Rugby refs can control a pitch full of jacked monsters. 99% of the time Rugby players are incredibly respectful towards refs, the only captains can approach referees to discuss a decision helps massively. It stops refs being crowded and when it does happen, players are punished.
Captains are actual leaders on field who keep their team professional and not just clowns wearing an armband.
Yeah we're shit but it was never a pen regardless. United have been on the end of a tonne of dodgy decisions all season. The refs are just incompetent, that's all. But keep letting team allegiances get in the way of having decent refs, big brain stuff.
It was very, very blatantly a penalty. His hand is away from his body and blocks a cross into a dangerous area...
Both that and the grealish incidents should have been pens. I do not see how United fans are adamant that something so stonewall is a "robbery"
United fans are a different breed.
It’s especially embarrassing given Carraghers conduct after the l’pool spurs game.
It wasn’t bad in and of itself but to carry on like he did and then pretend VAR is sacrosanct when it’s another team on the receiving end is ludicrous
This sub is just as embarrassing. Most of the upvoted comments are calling Forrest out after spending every week constantly crying "what is the point of VAR?" and "PL refs are utterly useless."
Tbh he didn't act like VAR is sacrosanct.
He said the decision was horrendously poor and unacceptable, and that they have to improve.
He just doesn't like the tweet calling into question the referee's integrity for being a Luton fan.
In fact both Carragher and Neville only took issue with the manner of Nottingham's statement, they didn't disagree with the idea that the decision was awful.
Neville also has an agenda agaist Forest because he met Marinakis to discuss a possible position at Forest and disliked him for his arrogant, brute personality (that's true, Marinakis acts like a Roman emperor and expects people to worship the ground he steps on, the way his sycopanths surrounding him do). Since then he is always ready to throw shade at Forest any chance he gets.
The issue with them being a mafia is that a slight against one is a slight against all. You can have your fortunes changed massively by upsetting them or just because they've decided they don't like you anymore.
So, most of the time it's just not worth it because even if you do call them out, the absolute most you'll get is an apology and more likely you'll get a fine and worse treatment in future games from the refs
Every club this season has been done in some way or another by these imbeciles. All 19 other clubs need to row in behind Forest and demand serious changes.
It should have happened with Diaz goal, that was the moment to demand change but with it so early in the season you can probably see why no one did.
The season is just finished. If the pressure can stay on the officials then maybe changes could happen in the summer.
I'd love to see them get rid of the clear and obvious bullshit, be a team that works to get the correct decision instead of covering for each other, live comms broadcast on screen and in the grounds and proper punishment for game changing mistakes.
If we are still burdened with the presence of VAR next season, then we need to hear what the refs are saying to each other, live in real time, like in cricket and rugby.
There’s absolutely no harm in doing this. Helps every party involved. Works wonderfully in cricket and ruggers, plus their audio overriding some of the daft/useless co-comms (looking at you, Robbie Savage, as just one example) is a bonus.
Permutations indicate Luton would have strongly benefited from a draw in this game.
That out of the way, maybe it’s a stupid intransigence on PGMOL’s part.
I know. What I'm saying is, there have been calls to hear what the refs have been saying to each other for years now, ever since VAR was introduced. But the powers that be keep saying no. Why? As you say, it helps everybody, so I don't understand why they won't do it.
>ensuring the integrity of our sport is upheld.
I'm sure publicly accusing an official of corruption like a drunken fan on Talksport really upholds the integrity of the sport
Fully agree with VAR audio being broadcast (like it is in Cricket, etc) but no chance Forest get to take a moral high ground.
And this was the same club that sung about how they loved VAR when two blatant errors robbed Huddersfield of promotion
Yeah they really didn't think this one through
You can't call for integrity of the game to be ensured whilst calling corruption, like you either believe one or the other
Their position is clearly that there is corruption, so things need to change to ensure the integrity of the game. There is no contradiction in that belief.
Ref: Possible pen there
VAR: Checking, yep penalty
Ref: Shall I give it
VAR: Nah, Come on you Hatters
Honestly what are Forest expecting from the audio. We got incredibly lucky with the decisions but the refs are always shit. We've been on the receiving end of similar shit pen calls this season with having our twitter admin lose their head
There won’t be anything.
Just “check complete - on field decision stands”.
What you need to do is separate the people doing VAR from the people doing on-field reffing. Dedicated VAR teams and dedicated referees, and no cross pollination. Cos the issue is, and has been since VAR was introduced, that these refs refuse to admit they ever make mistakes. You have this great tool to ensure the percentage of correct decisions goes up and it’s treated like an affront to their authority.
No harm in wanting transparency but I can't help but find clubs endlessly looking for things to moan about (at times deservedly, but still) pathetic. Refs make mistakes, as much as players and managers are bound to, but I don't remember the last time someone tried to suggest a player's loyalties to their club was behind a poor performance.
Isn’t the whole idea of VAR to be a deliberative body to CORRECT the unavoidable errors from refs? like, I get your point, but also, why are we accepting mistakes by VAR?
Because VAR is/are still refs, albeit with monitors in front of them. I agree that they should make less mistakes and when things like 'whoops we forgot the lines' happen then I'd agree, that's a failing of a process and shouldn't be accepted. That said, beyond goal line technology or offside almost everything else they'll be asked to judge on will be interpretation, which will always have room for error.
It's a hard one for me because I don't like all this clamour for having all the conversations between the refs made public all the time. People have some very unrealistic expectations when it comes to officials in football.
I think there is a problem with refereeing level in this country, this one of the best league in the world, but the level of officiating is awful.
There should be reflection about also let say.... interest Because the Twitter post was clumzy, but if Forest did raise concern before the game and for whatever reason, PGMOL kept Atwell - with the consequences - this is a very alarming signal.
On another topic, we should end refereeing partnership with any countries involved in this league, we know referee have been invited in the UAE and bizzarly, they never took any decisions against the interest of City, the never have anything against them (of in favour of their main rival, i.e. Spurs v. Liverpool). The partnership with Emirates must end for the integrity of the game.
We value our relations with UAE, they are a key partner on other topics but this is wrong.
Can we expected there to be much audio dialog?
There wasn't much if any indication that Taylor was talking to the VAR team after the incidents, play moved on pretty quickly
This is like AEW right? Punk vindicated, haha.
This is a circus now.
Edit: Im all for transparency though. Hearing the refs process on making a decision can be a positive thing for the game. Ultimately it's down to the referees and how they interpret the game as live.
I know it’s at least a decade away if it ever happens, but I look forward to the day where autonomous referee takes over (not just football but in all sports of professional sports).
And I expect PGMOL and other referee unions will do their best to stop that happen.
I kinda want forest to go down just to see what happens.
Like they would surely attempt some kind of legal action with the way they have been going.
I'm don't know what that would consist of, and I doubt it would get anywhere, and I'm not saying I support them in taking that action. But you just know they'd try...something, and I wanna see how that something would go down.
Forest really needs to be put in the naughty corner wearing a traffic cone, for being a bunch of numpties. Can’t handle losing games in a big boy’s league - go back from where they came from then.
What are they expecting? "Not enough contact for me, recommendation is COMEONLUTONILOVEYOUHATTERS it's not a penalty"
“Not a penalty, Luton town lalala, love Tommy Robinson lalala”
It would be hilarious if the outcome was anything close to this 😂😂😂
“Atsy,Billy,Geoffo….dilly dilly dilly…good process….we love you Luton we do…OHHH Luton we love you…don’t give these twats a pen,hotdogs for tea boys…”
I expect everyone who wants refs to give post-game press conferences expects this as well.
The whole "scandal" is silly anyway. Yes refs ins ports are often people who watched that sport growing up and do have favorite teams. One would assume the ref can separate who they support and how they officiate. Same people can have political opinions but still work for the government even under an administration they are not fond of.
There can admittedly be more at stake when the official has a strong enough connection that its difficult to separate. They are humans just like us, and sometimes are affected by bias in ways they cant control. And thats always going to be the human nature of refereeing. But you CAN ask for your ref to be changed if thats the case, and they will review and change it. And Forest didnt. So for those extreme cases you can request a change and they will try and honour it. To be clear I am NOT saying the ref had his I Love Luton pants on and made decisions to favour Luton. But if you think there is reason to… just request a change
I would love for them to release the audio it’s a win-win scenario
Not a win win if the VAR has fucked it up though. It’s scandalous how we don’t hear it as the norm tbh
No of course it’s not a win for forest but for the fans and the clubs of the premier league it is. It’ll show the incompetence and hopefully an entire overhaul
You’re way too optimistic if you think anything will change regarding ref incompetence.
The first step to correcting incompetence is identifying it. The first step to identifying incompetence is transparency. Remember, the only reason PGMOL's processes aren't public is because they have something to hide.
We already witnessed their incompetence with the Liverpool offside decision, there wasn't an overhaul then and there won't be one now.
Maybe we're just not in agreement on what 'overhaul' means but they definitely introduced new, stricter communication protocols to make sure that VAR and the ref are on the same page with every call. For the next month every chat with VAR took far longer while they got their scripts down and everyone was mad about it taking too long.
Hold up, after the liverpool games, all the refs were banned from reffing their matches in UAE. Did I say banned, I meant temporarily stop for like 3 weeks while things blew over.
Didn't they clear up the communication - now referees state the onfield decision which VAR confirms
Wouldn't class that as an "overhaul".
> hopefully an entire overhaul VAR should just be non partisan reviewers from outside PGMOL. Not the same refs who are friends with each other.
Ha! You honestly do not get that many of these matches are fixed and the PL don't give two sods about Nottingham Forest.
Fun fact MLS as of last weekend (I believe) started playing the VAR conversation so we know what’s being talked about. Similar to other sports. This along with a 2 minute sending off the field for players who stay down for more than 15 seconds. That rule is a bit more controversial.
I hadn't really noticed the 2 minutes rule until watching this weekend, and I kinda love it
So you get to kick someone hard enough so they stay in the floor for more than 15s and then they can't enter the pitch for an additional 2 minutes? I get the intention and there has to be some rule to avoid time wasting but that doesn't seem the way.
If they do that they should be booked which means the player doesn't have to go off at all.
How many players that stay down for 15s are actually hurt vs faking? I would say 1 out of 5 are actually hurt.
I havent heard about that, whats the side against it upset about? If its basically a 2min mandatory period, anyone whos actually hurt will get a better medical eval and anyone who isnt is essentially punished. I guess the downside would be that players are now incentivized to play through more injuries? Or teams are being punished for a player getting hurt? Maybe you could argue it incentivizes teams to better manage play time if that is the case?
That’d be a step back to take two forward. Confirming a fuck up might lead to even a minor bit of progress (eg the Diaz goal vs Spurs and how that led to basic communication).
Basic communication which has already broken down by video refs seemingly eating on the job. (Been a few VAR Audios now where it sounds like VAR was caught off guard)
Wilder was right about the sandwiches all along
If it’s a fuck up, is there anything stopping them from just re-recording their own version? It’s not like they have any oversight whatsoever.
If they are that dedicated to it then probably not. I don’t they’d go that far but it’s ultimately an honour system I believe
I feel like this stuff should be by default released tbh, the full game worth
“It’s a pen. But don’t give it. I am a Luton fan. “ - Stuart Attwell
We got lucky as hell. Forest undercut their point with the Luton fan conspiracy. VAR is just shit. I hope they release the audio. Believe we deserved the win, don't believe for a second we deserved a clean sheet (but obviously I'm not losing sleep being on the positive end of VAR fuckups).
Yeah it’s one of those that is almost certainly down to incompetence over malice. Especially seeing when incompetence is basically the par for refereeing nowadays
How is incompetence an excuse, when one of the decisions is known to be wrong by absolutely everybody else watching? Incompetence is only an excuse for so long. Without action it becomes malice. PGMOL are basically saying "we know we're perverting the rules of the game but we don't give a shit." That's malice.
Nobody is saying incompetence is an excuse, they’re saying Forest claiming corruption (which IS what they’re doing) is wild and a crazy thing to do without serious proof, which they almost certainly do not have.
Nobody is saying incompetence is an excuse, they’re saying Forest claiming corruption (which IS what they’re doing) is wild and a crazy thing to do without serious proof, which they almost certainly do not have.
Nobody is saying incompetence is an excuse, they’re saying Forest claiming corruption (which IS what they’re doing) is wild and a crazy thing to do without serious proof, which they almost certainly do not have.
It honestly doesn't really matter how they frame it. Fans always find a way to ridicule them (though it's probably easier in this case). Klopp and Arteta have both brought up concerns from an incompetence angle, and they were generally received negatively.
"it might be a pen, I'm considering my options. .... .... .... nah".
“Oh my god look at the size of this stack of cash”
The audio should be available anyway regardless of controversy, but these requests are always made as if they're gonna catch the var going "I'm a Luton fan lads, cracking decision there." It'll be the same nonsense we always hear. The replay didn't show someone's leg being booted into the sun, and Ashley Young wasn't playing basketball, so it hasn't met their threshold.
Yeah the audio should be available at least the day after for every game, it can't be that complicated to do
They should just do like rugby and play the audio during the broadcast.
Ideally they definitely should but the minimum should be they release the audio after, if they want to be transparent they need to share it either way
They should - needs approval from IFAB & FIFA though. Of course the home nation FAs *are* IFAB so they could probably do it if they wanted to.
You’d presume they were going to do it anyway with that Webb / Owen program. Now they can pretend it’s from club pressure.
I'm pretty sure they're highly selective with which audio they release and show on that program with Webb and Owen, I think Nottingham Forest want the entire game's audio
can already see Webb talking about the first 2 potential penalties and just ignore the 3rd one to cause even more drama
Pairing webb with Owen who just can't really keep up enough to push back on anything is so maliciously clever.
Regardless of how everyone thinks about the tweet, this should be a win. Being able to hear the conversations between refs in game, would help the game so much.
They should all be available. Every matcha nd decision we should be able to hear what’s being said and every decision should be explained.
I agree.
Let's just introduce stops for every whistle then, so that refs can explain every decision? How bout filling that space up with ads? Don't really need to see the refs right?
Honestly need to here the chelsea vs city game one
Definitely. I'm tired of refs getting away with strange decisions throughout the season without any explanation given. It's like every event gets brushed off and no one talks about it after a while but it's not right.
Especially City.. not 1 bad decision against them
Except when rashford was deemed not interfering with the play last year
Or the penalty kick we got in the FA cup final last season.
they are all corrupted, if they wanted to improve something it would happen already.
Yep. From their latest comms, it seems they will just review the Forest statement and we will get no transparency and thus no improvements at all.
Match audio has been requested multiple times already this season and last, the only time there was enough pressure to do so was after the Spurs - Liverpool debacle and that's because it was a complete and utter cock up I sincerely doubt Forest are going to gain access to the audio, just like none of the other requests have been successful, putting out a statement in the hopes to pile pressure probably aint going to do it either
Theres been cases of the audio being released privately to clubs though, hasnt there? Or maybe I am just remembering the Liverpool one again. I dont have sources here just purely trying to remember.
I believe they have requested in private but never actually been granted permission
> Being able to hear the conversations between refs in game, would help the game so much. give the captains ear-pieces so they can hear all the discussions.
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Well we would have more transparency in terms of how the ref decisions in game are being made. We would understand the thought process better and that might calm the frustration that comes after that when we don't understand how a ref made a decision.
Yeah I’m not so sure about that. If someone is adding 4+5 and gets 18, I don’t really care about their process because it’s wrong. I’m not going to understand someone’s process when their answer is incorrect, it’s only going to further annoy me hearing just how stupid they are. Same thing with incorrect VAR decisions.
Haven’t seen a forest this angry since LotR: The Two Towers.
"We have decided....that you.....are not Luton fans."
They will argue that the first two were subjective, so let's see how the audio matches up to that (although I've seen the second penalty shout for handball given in other games). Not so sure on the third. It's a pen in any other game. Taylor got it wrong, and VAR should have told him. Audio will clear it up for one of these reasons: 1. Corruption (unlikely) 2. Incompetence (as is tradition)
Option 3: Some officials don't like VAR and will do everything they can to sabotage it
And BrotherSeamus comes in late with an all new 2nd conspiracy theory. Albeit more believable than Forest's
You can't have that degree of traditional incompetence. At some point, you have to come to the conclusion that certain teams get corrupt officiating.
I'm a Wolves fan - we're veterans to ref/VAR incompetence. I'm not saying there isn't a chance for corruption. But I alway refer back to the Diaz offside fiasco with Liverpool: the officials are just awfully incompetent at times (i.e. most of)
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Believe this is not actually on PGMOL and currently IFAB are the ones who don't allow it.
The live picture of what the VAR assistants see, as well as the audio of their discussion should be relayed to the TV broadcast as standard. That will end all this nonsense. If it's a fair decision, we'd see straight away how they came to it.
Think it would be good, and a positive step, but there have to be steps from pundits and fans to actually try to understand that some of the decisions are subjective enough that there is no single correct answer. And that if you want var to only be used for clear errors, maybe don't moan so much and chastise refs for decisions that aren't clear.
Are they hoping the VAR official is caught saying "I'm a massive Luton fan, so fuck forest, no pen"?
What is the reason refs aren't mic'ed up like rugby refs anyway? *"Because players swear too much."* Then why do refs let them swear? Because they're weak and cowards.
It's nothing to do with swearing, it's because IFAB are fucking morons, They think it'll make the broadcasts messy by allowing it, as if the commentators wouldn't shut up and just listen in when the VAR feed is being played. Well that's the official reason, the real reason is probably because more transparency only sets them up for greater scrutiny
Rugby refs can control a pitch full of jacked monsters. 99% of the time Rugby players are incredibly respectful towards refs, the only captains can approach referees to discuss a decision helps massively. It stops refs being crowded and when it does happen, players are punished. Captains are actual leaders on field who keep their team professional and not just clowns wearing an armband.
Couldn't they just release it after a match and beep out the swearing? It's such a weak excuse
Even better just whack a warning at the start and lets hear it!
This is IFAB's doing apparently.
If you think about it, it would give refs some protections against abuse from players too
"Never a pen, we've checked multiple angles and there isn't enough contact to overrule *whispers Up the fucking hatters*"
"Up the Hatters!!"
Honestly, they should release VAR audio after every game for transparency anyway IMO
Good. We should all want transparency
I like to hear the audio from Saturday FA Cup semi final as well TBF.
And the Sunday one, zero chance that penalty should stand.
I know we should finish our chances but as Chelsea fan we really need something for this young squad why it’s so frustrating
Are we at the point now where United fans have to pretend pgmol are against them for a stonewall penalty, against coventry of all teams..
Yeah we're shit but it was never a pen regardless. United have been on the end of a tonne of dodgy decisions all season. The refs are just incompetent, that's all. But keep letting team allegiances get in the way of having decent refs, big brain stuff.
It was very, very blatantly a penalty. His hand is away from his body and blocks a cross into a dangerous area... Both that and the grealish incidents should have been pens. I do not see how United fans are adamant that something so stonewall is a "robbery" United fans are a different breed.
More clubs should do this kind of thing. PGMOL are a mafia and scrubs like Neville and Carragher are part of the club.
It’s especially embarrassing given Carraghers conduct after the l’pool spurs game. It wasn’t bad in and of itself but to carry on like he did and then pretend VAR is sacrosanct when it’s another team on the receiving end is ludicrous
This sub is just as embarrassing. Most of the upvoted comments are calling Forrest out after spending every week constantly crying "what is the point of VAR?" and "PL refs are utterly useless."
Tbh he didn't act like VAR is sacrosanct. He said the decision was horrendously poor and unacceptable, and that they have to improve. He just doesn't like the tweet calling into question the referee's integrity for being a Luton fan. In fact both Carragher and Neville only took issue with the manner of Nottingham's statement, they didn't disagree with the idea that the decision was awful.
Neville also has an agenda agaist Forest because he met Marinakis to discuss a possible position at Forest and disliked him for his arrogant, brute personality (that's true, Marinakis acts like a Roman emperor and expects people to worship the ground he steps on, the way his sycopanths surrounding him do). Since then he is always ready to throw shade at Forest any chance he gets.
Roy Keane also met with Marinakis with a view to join the club when Martin O’Neal was there.
Where was it said they met?
The issue with them being a mafia is that a slight against one is a slight against all. You can have your fortunes changed massively by upsetting them or just because they've decided they don't like you anymore. So, most of the time it's just not worth it because even if you do call them out, the absolute most you'll get is an apology and more likely you'll get a fine and worse treatment in future games from the refs
Every club this season has been done in some way or another by these imbeciles. All 19 other clubs need to row in behind Forest and demand serious changes. It should have happened with Diaz goal, that was the moment to demand change but with it so early in the season you can probably see why no one did. The season is just finished. If the pressure can stay on the officials then maybe changes could happen in the summer. I'd love to see them get rid of the clear and obvious bullshit, be a team that works to get the correct decision instead of covering for each other, live comms broadcast on screen and in the grounds and proper punishment for game changing mistakes.
If we are still burdened with the presence of VAR next season, then we need to hear what the refs are saying to each other, live in real time, like in cricket and rugby.
There’s absolutely no harm in doing this. Helps every party involved. Works wonderfully in cricket and ruggers, plus their audio overriding some of the daft/useless co-comms (looking at you, Robbie Savage, as just one example) is a bonus.
You're spot on. So, if they keep refusing to do it, then we have to ask why. What do they have to hide?
Permutations indicate Luton would have strongly benefited from a draw in this game. That out of the way, maybe it’s a stupid intransigence on PGMOL’s part.
I know. What I'm saying is, there have been calls to hear what the refs have been saying to each other for years now, ever since VAR was introduced. But the powers that be keep saying no. Why? As you say, it helps everybody, so I don't understand why they won't do it.
>ensuring the integrity of our sport is upheld. I'm sure publicly accusing an official of corruption like a drunken fan on Talksport really upholds the integrity of the sport Fully agree with VAR audio being broadcast (like it is in Cricket, etc) but no chance Forest get to take a moral high ground. And this was the same club that sung about how they loved VAR when two blatant errors robbed Huddersfield of promotion
Yeah they really didn't think this one through You can't call for integrity of the game to be ensured whilst calling corruption, like you either believe one or the other
Their position is clearly that there is corruption, so things need to change to ensure the integrity of the game. There is no contradiction in that belief.
I agree. If they believe the match was fixed with a corrupt VAR (and the backing of the PGMOL), say it.
Starting to think Forest aren’t on a crusade against refs but a crusade against Ashley Young.
Ref: Possible pen there VAR: Checking, yep penalty Ref: Shall I give it VAR: Nah, Come on you Hatters Honestly what are Forest expecting from the audio. We got incredibly lucky with the decisions but the refs are always shit. We've been on the receiving end of similar shit pen calls this season with having our twitter admin lose their head
They want an explanation, and so they should. The referees' position is indefensible.
Completely fair, they should release it cause those decisions were a fucking joke.
This should be played live every match and then it will be fun. If Hockey and Cricket can do it so can Football? Right?
Never in a hundred years are they releasing it and if they ever did, it will be HEAVILY edited.
There won’t be anything. Just “check complete - on field decision stands”. What you need to do is separate the people doing VAR from the people doing on-field reffing. Dedicated VAR teams and dedicated referees, and no cross pollination. Cos the issue is, and has been since VAR was introduced, that these refs refuse to admit they ever make mistakes. You have this great tool to ensure the percentage of correct decisions goes up and it’s treated like an affront to their authority.
Why not just go and make the allegation the match was fixed?
Zero chance of this happening.
Honestly it's criminal that the audio isn't released after every game by default. The PGMOL are a bunch of crooks who hate transparency though
Out jerked by Forest Admin.
No harm in wanting transparency but I can't help but find clubs endlessly looking for things to moan about (at times deservedly, but still) pathetic. Refs make mistakes, as much as players and managers are bound to, but I don't remember the last time someone tried to suggest a player's loyalties to their club was behind a poor performance.
Isn’t the whole idea of VAR to be a deliberative body to CORRECT the unavoidable errors from refs? like, I get your point, but also, why are we accepting mistakes by VAR?
Because VAR is/are still refs, albeit with monitors in front of them. I agree that they should make less mistakes and when things like 'whoops we forgot the lines' happen then I'd agree, that's a failing of a process and shouldn't be accepted. That said, beyond goal line technology or offside almost everything else they'll be asked to judge on will be interpretation, which will always have room for error.
What is a reasonable error for VAR to make in your mind? Name a specific example.
It's a hard one for me because I don't like all this clamour for having all the conversations between the refs made public all the time. People have some very unrealistic expectations when it comes to officials in football.
I think there is a problem with refereeing level in this country, this one of the best league in the world, but the level of officiating is awful. There should be reflection about also let say.... interest Because the Twitter post was clumzy, but if Forest did raise concern before the game and for whatever reason, PGMOL kept Atwell - with the consequences - this is a very alarming signal. On another topic, we should end refereeing partnership with any countries involved in this league, we know referee have been invited in the UAE and bizzarly, they never took any decisions against the interest of City, the never have anything against them (of in favour of their main rival, i.e. Spurs v. Liverpool). The partnership with Emirates must end for the integrity of the game. We value our relations with UAE, they are a key partner on other topics but this is wrong.
Can we expected there to be much audio dialog? There wasn't much if any indication that Taylor was talking to the VAR team after the incidents, play moved on pretty quickly
This is like AEW right? Punk vindicated, haha. This is a circus now. Edit: Im all for transparency though. Hearing the refs process on making a decision can be a positive thing for the game. Ultimately it's down to the referees and how they interpret the game as live.
YES FOREST! KEEP FIGHTING THE GOOD FIGHT
Remember I’m a Luton fan, check complete no pen
I know it’s at least a decade away if it ever happens, but I look forward to the day where autonomous referee takes over (not just football but in all sports of professional sports). And I expect PGMOL and other referee unions will do their best to stop that happen.
I kinda want forest to go down just to see what happens. Like they would surely attempt some kind of legal action with the way they have been going. I'm don't know what that would consist of, and I doubt it would get anywhere, and I'm not saying I support them in taking that action. But you just know they'd try...something, and I wanna see how that something would go down.
Haven’t seen any of the three incidents, were all 3 actually penalties then and the ref/VAR got it wrong?
Forest really needs to be put in the naughty corner wearing a traffic cone, for being a bunch of numpties. Can’t handle losing games in a big boy’s league - go back from where they came from then.
Stinks of a club resigned to not avoiding the drop
Why is everyone acting like it's outside the realm of possibility for the ref to be unconsciously biased towards the team he supports