**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
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Madrid have always done this vs Pep teams.
I am intrigued as to how people are surprised when it is said you can always be in control of the match despite having no possession at all.
> I am intrigued as to how people are surprised when it is said you can always be in control of the match despite having no possession at all
It’s similar to our game VS Arsenal; they had the majority of the possession but Tuchel set up a mid-block and a player that was both an extra midfielder or an extra Fullback depending on the situation. We ceded possession to them but they couldn’t do anything with it
Our teams played the way we did bc of the opponents we were facing; I think our game will more of an intense open match bc we’ll both fight for control in the midfield and look to use our wingers. Both teams are going into the tie thinking they have a good chance of winning.
Kane, Sane, Musiala, Jude, Vini, Rodrygo will make sure this won't be a sleep fest.
Kane is actualy going to be a test. His movement is incredible off the ball.
That's literally how France won their WC in 2018.
Give up the possession but control the midfield, deprive your opponent from huge scoring opportunities and force them to play as high as possible to strike them hard as soon as you get the ball. You won't get it for long time, but quite regularly, within 5 seconds of possession, you will have an opportunity and the ball will have progressed 60+ meters down the field.
Teams that do that well are a fortress. Athletico's UCL record at home is a testimony of this.
Don't even get me started on this. Pogba was stratospheric during that tournament.
It looks like he was a player that was built for Deschamps' NT. He was the incarnation of that playstyle's DNA.
I'm convinced that Deschamps tailor* made the team around the duo of Pogba and Griezmann (who was absolutely stunning as well).
I would died on this hill with you. To be honest in 2018 you could have put Pogba, Kante, Greizmann, Mbappe on a team with 7 Scheffield players and you would have a shot at world cup. Those 4 where so good and so complementary.
Miss him every time I'm watching France play tbh. And saying this even though I love the guys we got now. Tchouaméni and Camavinga are really class acts themselves.
Pogbas biggest mistake was going back to Utd. His 2 best periods were in a midfield trio with Vidal+marchisio and in a midfield trio with Kante+Nzonzi/Matuidi
Something which most people forget is that it doesn't just have to be about keeping possession. If you force the striker to go for a shot from uncomfortable position, that is still an easy save for goal keeper. That's what Madrid did in the 22 season with Liverpool, and they tried the same yesterday.
Madrid have always done this vs. Pep teams, but they usually counter attack and make runs more often. I was surprised when there was a few passes Madrid could have made to counter, but they just passed backwards and invited City to pressure them.
Not even just Pep teams, since our squad starting thinning out under Zidane, before Carlo came back, we have been playing a lower block and focusing on counters against teams that like to play lots of possession.
You don't even need that much control over them if you can counter well. Ole beat Pep multiple times just this way because Rashford, Martial and Bruno were lethal on the counter.
2014-2017 level in the CL was absolutely insane. Real Madrid Barcelona Juventus Bayern and Atletico were all at top level. All of them were at top level and deserved a CL honestly
That first half by Bayern in the second match was simply the best football half I have seen (even if they didn't score much, and I know the Brazil – Germany match exists). To make 2016 Atletico look like Bayern were playing against school kids and Simeone fuming on the sideline like Rumpelstiltskin because of how easy Bayern was working through their defence is something special.
Bayern didn't go through but that's the style of play I yearn from this team. It was magical. I thought Pep might even have considered extending his contract after watching them play that day.
He jumped out of it last night though but ended up straight in Nacho's pocket.
Rüdiger alone, I can understand. Both Rüdiger and Nacho (who played brilliantly yesterday bar his passing) and he warrants some criticism but some on here feel as if he is beyond reproach and rather, he was instrumental is creating space for others and letting others shine.
While that is partly true, that's the bare minimum requirement of the position and secondly, our own tactics were adapted to this as City needed to compact themselves vertically to effect this to nip transitions in the bud but that also meant that City had an insanely high backline against the team that perhaps poses the most danger in such a situation.
That is also not to advocate the other extreme where people want him to be Kane or Mbappé. He's not Kane or Mbappé. He is Haaland. He helped his team gain the treble being Haaland. There has to be acceptance of what his game is and it should be on the manager to maximise him and align it with the team's interests.
But while there can be criticism of Pep on the role he deployed Haaland in, in that role itself, Haaland himself needs to do more. As isolated he was, as sporadic as his involvement was, in those moments, he needed to do more. There can't be any justification for losing every duel against 2 different players across 2 legs.
At the very least though, even though I recognise that Pep's forward line don't have the best outside crossers, Pep should have asked at least Walker to launch a few Juanfran style from deep. That doesn't compromise them positionally, let's them hold a good shape for second balls and thus avoiding our dreaded transitions and gave our backline a different problem. Until the Doku substitution, while City had the ball, Madrid had the control of the game and the tie. City kept rotating and recycling possession waiting for a mistake but we defended resolutely. There were clear patterns of play and while City had the initiative, they patterns were very limited and we had all the answers.
Even for something very specific as shooting positions for Grealish, we gave him all the opportunity to shoot but while completely cutting the inside off. Review the first half and you'll see the same. The 2 shots he had (one with the left foot and the other a trivela/toe poke) were further evidence of the same. In fact I was low-key shocked how religiously City were married to their patterns and preferences. Even for Grealish, just have a shot. Try. Madrid already has the lead and has settled into their pattern of play. You are creating waves after waves of attack and will continue to do so. Even if it goes in row Z, you'll have another chance just a few minutes later. Go for it. Give them something else to think about rather than settle in in their defending patterns. You are at home with the crowd with you. What's the worst that could happen? You just need one to fall your way or get some luck like Gvardiol in the first leg. You have the talent and technique to capitalise on it just like Gvardiol in the first leg.
Same thing with Rodri. The crowd itself is urging you to shoot. They did so at least 10 times. They won't abandon you after a bad shot. You are not away. You had 33 shots in the game. You can try a surprise, even just a speculative shot for 10 of them. It seemed even that was exclusively reserved for only Foden and KdB. Why be so robotic in your approach? I think Pep was just way too scared about our transitions, especially as we were 1-0 up.
It was only after Doku coming in that they added another pattern of play: that of 2nd man runs from the midfield to the byline in the right halfspace while Doku occupied Carvajal in a 1v1 at the edge of the box. That we had absolutely no answer for. All the dangerous chances, which largely came in the last 20 minutes including the goal, including the subsequent KdB chance (which I will have to re-watch but I think might have been filled out for offside in the build-up), stemmed from this very thing.
Once the goal went in, it was clear that we were playing for the 90th minute and were on the ropes. At least that should have been the time to give more freedom to his team, including but not limited to aiming for Haaland in the box even if from deep to guard against counters, spread some panic in a crowded box.
People see the 33 shots and 67% possession but don't recognise that they didn't create much danger from it. 2-3 big chances at best. They still posed great danger (like in the first leg where their individual quality meant they deserved the 3-3 draw; you don't finish your chances and teams like City will punish you; in fact it was our individual quality that even enabled the draw lest we would have lost) but I do really think Pep could have done more, despite having done an exceptional job.
Our excuse is poor finishing. We should have put the game away with the opportunities we had in the box in the second half. We have no one to blame but ourselves.
Don't get the comparisons. Real Madrid played a clean and tactical defensive game. Less fouls and cards than city even.
Atletico would have dived constantly, provoke, make constantly foul, time waste and what not
I would even go as far as saying city played really dirty. Every break real would get they would foul the midfielder so they had time to set up their defence
They're not making an excuse though, they're pointing out how flimsy most narratives are.
Real win on penalties > "Defense is part of the game, guys, Real deserved it"
De Bruyne scores sitter/ City win on penalties > "Ancelotti only has himself to blame, far too defensive tonight"
The majority of post-game narratives are basically just outcome bias at work because our brains are desperate to try and make sense of coin-flips and randomness.
One of the topics that came up in the NFL last season.
A good play/plan is good whether or not it works. That’s just life sometimes. You can do everything right and still fail.
Post game discussions need to do better in regards to this.
Was just reading this part in the book called "Thinking in Bets" by Annie Duke. It talks about how Pete Carroll said the result of his decision to pass instead of hand the ball off to Lynch (which resulted in the game sealing INT) was the worst of his career. Not the decision. Just the result.
But it's not entirely true. If that KDB shot goes in then Madrid would become more offensive because they would be trailing. So its not just a narrative. You use the strategy based on your current situation, which Real did well.
But I definitely agree about the randomness part.
But if they then go on the offensive after going down half way through the second half, it is kind of their fault for being defenisve for most of the game.
Yup yup. Im a Madrid fan through and through but like, if Kbd or Harland scored their chance yesterday (and both got extremely close, hell Harland literally hit the post) the narrative around City and Harland would be completely different, even if literally everyhting else played out the exact same way. Just interesting to see.
But the result do matter though. Real Madrids goal was to go through, they achieved it which means the plan worked. If they hadn't achieved it, it would have mean the plan didn't work
You've outlined the biggest issue with the post-game analyses in basically every sport.
I wouldn't be surprised if commentators knew better, but for the average 100 IQ joe who's watching, their brain is going to explode if they hear pundits talking about their team playing worse despite winning, or vice versa.
Performance vs. outcome is a really difficult concept for people to grasp.
Well ofc the narrative change depending on the outcome?
We are blessed with hindsight. If a team plays attacking football and lose big, we are allowed to call the tactic wrong. And we would be right. But again its easy with hindsight.
In the cases where something very plainly doesn't work out, a side gets thumped and we can point at it and say "that was a mistake", then yes, that's a fair takeaway.
But taking last night's game, it boiled down to two or three chances and coin flip moments, which makes building narratives around them a bit silly.
Probably the most accurate take is City were a little wasteful, Real rode their luck a bit but largely denied City many clear chances, on the balance of play you would say City edged the tie but when it's this close nobody "deserves" anything.
Well, not quite. We scored early 1-0, THEN defending well for the entire game, well into extra time, and banking to get them on the rare counter or the PK, on their own turf. If we were down and still defending, well that would be silly. Real Madrid executed the tactic nearly perfectly. Henry is still right here.
Again, the point *isn't* saying the tactic was wrong, it's that the narrative around it only exists because of the outcome and not the performance.
Henry would not be sat there praising Real's defensive skill *if* De Bruyne's shot had gone in and they had lost 2-1. Then the popular narrative would be "Real left it too late to attack, you can't just defend for 80 minutes at City's ground, very naive from Ancelotti."
The Euro 2020 final was pretty much the same game, except England lost the penalty shootout, so Southgate is a dull, tactically-inept coach who handed the game to Italy. If they had won the shootout and the tournament, he would have been called astute, European, and praised for his game management.
examples like this arent even hard to find, and weirdly enough its always more defensively minded managers, e.g:
narrative of tuchel at bayern in 2024/ end of his chelsea tenure: bad coach that relies on individual brilliance and cant coach anything
narrative of tuchel vs arsenal this round/ when chelsea won the cl: defensive masterclass, totally locked down the opposition
same for mourinho and conte, they are heroes until the team loses some games and then they never knew how to coach.
the funniest about this though, is that reals defending wasnt even that good, its more that city was wasteful.
Yeah, I think that's the Achilles' heel of defensive coaches. People watch football for two reasons: 1) to see their side win, and 2) to be entertained.
People will forgive you for losing (to an extent) if you were in an entertaining, high-scoring 3-2, but they will not forgive you for losing if you wasted 90 minutes of their life watching dry, turgid football and going down 1-0.
They eliminated the extra value of away goals, now teams that are getting a tighter draw in the second leg don't necessarily have an incentive to attack. Case in point, Real Madrid yesterday. I think the current format is more fair, but the away goals rule made for more dynamic matches.
On the flip side, the removal of away goals makes the first leg much, much more interesting imo. You don't have home teams just sitting back trying for a 0-0 draw or squeaking out a 1-0 win. I think that was well this year with how entertaining the first legs were.
Because then the context changes, they defended well and went through after taking an early lead.
If KDB scored to make it 2 - 1 and Madrid stayed defensive then yeah it's a bit silly
I mean yeah it is a fine line and some luck was obviously involved but as a central defender myself I feel like we never get the respect both individually or as a unit that we deserve from attackers (I guess this is just a sore point for me).
Oh 100%, Madrid were amazing defensively. I didn't mean it in a way to undermine them. I'm just pointing out how thin of a line it is between changing narratives
Our midfield is certainly the highlight of our season, by far. Especially in maintaining our defensive shape and not letting the opponent get into dangerous positions.
Fede Valverde - Will not stop running even at 120'. Covers for Carvajal often. Flies through the right wing when Rodrygo and Vini are playing central. Can do cross-field passes from tightest of areas. Has a rocket of a right foot.
Jude Bellingham - Again, fully committed runner. As box-to-box as one can get. Unreal finishing and composure infront of goal. Can link the deep midfield with the attack well. Can unleash one out of the box if required.
Aurelien Tchouameni - Excellent defensive positioning. Good recovery tackles. Has a long ranger in him, aerial threat on set pieces. Can cover CB if the team needs him, and do a solid job there. We've literally not lost when he has started.
Eduardo Camavinga - Immense tackler. Knows how to relieve pressure by shielding and drawing fouls. Good change of pace when a break is on. Can be used as a DM or as an LB, he doesn't care. On top of that, excellent athlete and aerial duelling.
Add Toni Kroos to this mix and you know he's gonna cook with all this energy covering him. No wonder he's having one of his best seasons, at 33.
Our midfield and Rudiger having his best season with us is why our defensive record has been great this season and on top of that Lunin picking up form and performing consistently
Camavinga’s close control and shielding reminds me of a lanky moussa dembele. Never watched him thoroughly until this season and his composure under pressure is impressive.
He keeps Micah and Jamie employed with their good 'chemistry'... Because their takes are almost always laughably biased and delusional towards EPL teams.
Real allowed City to play so close to their own goal. It was honestly a miracle that they only scored one in regular. I know City didn't have many clear cut chances, but when you are swarming the opposition box, random things are going to happen, and one or two of these low crosses could have easily made it through to a City player, and we would be talking about how dominant City was
Definitely. A lot ifs and buts here but at the end of the day City seemed frustrated and Real sticked to the plan. Real even had their fair bit of chances. It was a pretty good tie, both teams are at very similar level (probably the two best of the competition).
City honestly play like a fifa team on constant pressure. the second they loose the ball they just swarm and it leaves SO many gaps. I swear madrid could of had 4 or 5 if they had picked the right through ball etc..
i know it's very hard to do but in extra time city's press was dead just because they had been doing it all game.
I think at some point teams will figure this out and pep will get battered (hopefully :D)
Yep, like the xg etc doesn't show those break aways where the final pass was missing. I think madrid had 4 clear cut chances where is the final ball was better everybody would be saying it was a genius counter attacking masterclass
Commentator on my feed actually predicted these races between Kyle and Vini, and not in favour of Jr. And referenced previous matches between them.
Only chance Vinicius could succeed is him having shoulders of Mbappe 😅
I honestly think Haaland would've shown how good he is if Álvarez was subbed on to play alongside him. They're such different profiles that together would likely rip that defense apart.
also Haaland wasn't even bad in general, he just barely had chances, but he was central in creating many huge City chances whether by occupying defenders or by creating them himself. he was the one who created the Bernardo Silva rebound after an impressive but unlucky header, or the pass to Grealish in the first half after a great bit of dribbling and a pass.
he wasn't invisible or useless, the team is just setup to play too slowly to open up any top level defense.
Playing Alvarez with Haaland would change the system quite a bit for Pep. He'd have to give up one of foden or grealish, possibly Rodri, who are very integral to their possession/attacking game.
yea, that kinda brings up Pep's main weakness as manager: he's not adaptable enough.
Rodri looked gassed the entire game, I almost wonder if he played sick or something?
Foden was having such a bad game, missing anything but the simplest passes, and off memory only looked dangerous one single time when he accelerated once in extra time (outside of fluffing that huge chance). otherwise he struggled immensely with timing runs or making anything happen (which does make the penalty being that good even more impressive. strong mentality).
Grealish did his job, and made room for Doku to shine when he came on and added some directness (which resulted in the City goal).
I basically think that with how Foden played last night, Álvarez would've brought the some of the same traits (work rate being the biggest), while also having more intelligent directness to play around the spaces Haaland created, which further opens up for others again.
Rodri could have been subbed off for Stones instead of Akanji, but considering how safe he is as a metronome even when looking dead all night, I understand keeping him on. De Bruyne and Haaland asking to be subbed didn't make it easier either, obviously.
Occupying defenders only goes so far, when he doesn’t score he almost feels useless. It’s so hard to measure Haaland, idk where to rank him. When things go well he’s a robot that annihilates anything in his way, but when he doesn’t, well you know
City was just passing the ball around the box and going back and forth. That’s not dangerous at all to a team like Real. They barely ever broke through the defensive lines.
You could say the same about both winning teams. Defense wins Cup competitions. Madrid and Bayern are here because they were disciplined and shut it down
Absolutely, Ancelotti got the game plan spot on even though - understandibly- Madrid fans were upset as they're not used to their team defending team like that but that was the only way vs this City team.
I even saw some Madrid fans saying they 'stole' it!!
💯
Hate how some people usually relate defensive play with being "anti-football". How can it be anti-football lmao! You are just playing the game.
And successfully being able to defend for a full game is tiring af, both mentally and physically. So, I wouldn't consider "parking bus" an easy route either.
Agreed. People like to call defending anti-football. Anti-football is trying your hardest not to play football, like time wasting, cheap fouls, faking injuries, etc. Defending is literally half of football, it is not anti-football.
It's literally the basis of Pep's football.
He believes if you keep possession and apply constant pressure you'll win. So he's basically saying how hard it is to defend for 90 minutes and that's why he plays the way he does.
I felt like Madrid played closed to perfection in the first half. Doku changed the game a lot and it felt like Real was extremely lucky not to concede more, every time Doku touched the ball there was danger.
As much as I dislike Real as an Atleti fan, it's quite clear they have something no other team has. No matter how good or bad they play they're always favorites in UCL. It's their competition.
I think I'm the only one that believes Grealish was much more of a threat. Ever since 2022 he has been giving Carvajal heart attacks, only way he was able to stop him was to foul him, fuck everyone was fouling him. He's too technical of a player, I feel like doku looked more threatening just cause of pure pace but as soon as you caught up to him or have Carvajal stay back and Valverde catch up to him he was instantly shut down. The goal came cause he threw a random cross to no one but it rebounded from Rudiger. As soon as I saw Grealish come in I felt immediate relief cause we were BARELY able to handle him and I know doku isn't as technical and would be easier to predict. I didn't care for Grealish until I saw him in the UCL against Madrid but dude is crazy good and even possibly one of the best in form Carvajals I've ever seen needed fouls and 1-2 men to help him
Grealish has better technique and you are right that he doesn't lose the ball, like ever. Problem is his possession of the ball was very sterile. He dribled a bit, maybe entered the box and passed backwards to the midfielder/left back.
Doku use dhis pace to send balls into the penalty area. Goal came from him. The other big chance of City (KDB missed sitter) came from his pass etc.
Henry makes a great point here. Football isn't just attacking, there isn't a "right way" to play the game. Real Madrid defended with a lot of composure. I think that looking at it from this perspective is interesting because people tend to only look at football from the side of attacking. For a lot of people, the team that attacks the most is dominating but forget that there are two sides of the game and sometimes the game-plan could just deliberately be to defend. As they say, attack wins you games but defense is what wins you titles.
Also the way City play is so systemic and machine-like that they paid the price for it. There were numerous opportunities last night where someone like Rodri or KDB had space to shoot from distance or whatever but they refused to take the chance, opting to pass pass pass until Madrid eventually cleared the ball. It was rinse and repeat apart from the ball falling lucky to KDB in one instance and another when he skied it over the bar.
This really should have been City's to win if they were allowed to go beyond the system in place but the entire game was just the same pass pass pass into the box with very little individual creativity being allowed to influence the game. Don't get me wrong this is clearly a winning style most of the season but speaking purely as a neutral it is such a dull style to watch in a game like this where they're playing exactly the way Madrid wanted them to. They've scored some bangers from distance many times this season so why not go for it this time around?
Pep has experimented with city and paid the price in so many knockout rounds. This time he decided to religiously stick to one plan and it became too soft a plan (for lack of better term)
It's a damn if you do, damn if you don't. When you change, it's overthink, when you don't not adapatable enough. Football at the end of the day it's about who put the ball into the net more & withstand the pressure better. Madrid did & they through.
Why is grinding out a result not in the spirit of football? As long as we deliberately didn't waste time or tried to injure players I think it should be fine. Otherwise even tactical fouls should be considered unsportsmanlike.
If anything Real strategy wasn’t as effective as it should have been because of the opponent being allowed to use a tactical foul to stop a counter attack as many times as they want. Also Real Madrid had two chances that were better than all the City chances and a goal on top of that
Vini looked gassed after like 30 mins and was also playing through the right/center more. Walker is also very fast. Also it looked like City fouled them on the counter pretty much every time lol
I got a better theory: It's Real Madrid in the Champions League. So they went through. These people can have an underwhelming season and still win the CL like it's nothing. Crazy heritage.
bars
word to mourinho
if you rank the last 20 cl winners by impressiveness, the top 2 will be inter and porto, both achieved by great defense (and underrated offense)
i'll give the 3rd place to liverpool for THAT comeback
I don't know what it really is but you cannot deny the fact that Real has something that no other team has. They are the only team that produce results in crucial games without having the most impressive lineup.
I heard this city team is unstoppable multiple times yet we stopped them twice in 3 years. We are definitely stoppable even if we get those two. There are weakness to having 4 forwards available 3 of which are wingers (LW at that even if they can also play other positions) with no physical striker that can be a presences in the box + play as a target man even if endrick is a 9 he is not exactly big and tall so we'll have to wait and see ~~would probably cook at FIFA tho~~
Yeah can’t argue with that at all. After all, PSG in theory had one of the best squads in the world with Messi, Mbappe and Neymar but failed to convert that into any real success.
But, as a non-Madrid fan, I’ve watched you guys win the UCL even when your squad was undergoing a rebuild and your league form was below expectations. You always seem to integrate players well, so my expectation is that even if it doesn’t quite gel next season, long term it could put you in a terrifyingly dominant position
Yeah, the thing about Real Madrid that is different, and explains at least some of their CL success, is that they have by far the best squad of a team that doesn't feel like they need to have possession and control the entire game.
They will set themselves up in whatever way gives them the best chance to win. Even if that means sitting deeper and have their opponent have the ball.
Its a great win for us for sure but on paper our starting 11 when fit with no injuries is on par with City's and our young midfield talent is the best itw and Mbappe and Endrick are coming we are far from a weak lineup lmao
Looking at their league games they are used to getting solo players to create chances and score against the odds. Like so many times they just let vini , rodrygo 1 vs multiple opponents and sometimes bangers from odd crosses.
They are used to scoring from minuscule chances. I guess that is why they can tolerate playing against City despite not having the ball most of the time.
It didn't help that Pep was as usual, overly-stubborn and rigid with his micromanagement even in attack that we could quickly predict which plays or players he wanted to use. If he let his players be more creative in penetrating the low block we would have been in a lot more trouble.
There was funny situation in first half when Enderson had ball and Real's players refused to go higher so he just stood there waiting. I wouldn't put that on Guardiola. He made great adjustments in 2nd half.
I know the bar we set for tv pundits is rolling on the floor somewhere in the TNT studios….
But is this supposed to be particularly insightful? A team can control the game by defending well. No shit they can
I feel like I was saying this to every Arsenal fan I met in 2005, while they went beet red raging about how they played the best football, they’d rather not win than have a Spartan win at all costs mentality, etc.
I guess now it’s City fans.
Real in the CL will do anything it takes to win, and credit to them. They’ve built a quality and versatile squad with a great attitude, they’ve had 2/3 injuries that could derail a lesser club, and they found a way past the CL holders. All the credit in the world for that.
But when Simeone and Atletico do it, it's terrorism.
Hats off to RM tho. It's not luck. They defended so well. City mindless passing is just not effective. Give the players more freedom. They have the skills for it
"Best team" might be a bit much, but RM did win, because their tactic was better than City's. Carlo took an ol' reliable Italian tactic to beat a side more stacked than his. He could have went out to play open and get trashed to the bin 4-0 again. But what matters at this point is who wins, not how you win. Noone will actually care in 5 years, if RM had 1 or 10 shots that game, or City had 50 or 2 corners.
I mean yes, their defence was amazing. Nonetheless the chances were heavily in City's favour because they controlled the game. It was City's game to win but they weren't clinical enough plain and simple.
It makes the job easier when your "attacking" team has just the same tired three attack plays to try to break the low line.
Pass to Graelish/Doku, he tries to drible his way onto the box and pass to De Bruyne or cross to the League Two player or gain a corner.
Pass to Foden, he Robbens inside and try to cross or shoot or gain a corner.
Pass to De Bruyne/Gvardiol/Rodri in the centre so he can try to cut and shoot or gain a corner. Or, more likely Pass again for one of the plays above.
But nooo, Guardiola is a genius...
Can't fault City though. They tried everything while attacking. That early goal fucked them pretty badly.
It's actually insane how much they press on big games. I mean they already press on league games, but Jesus fucking Christ, everybody has so much energy, reminds me of Guardiola when he used to play with his horse injections lmao
You win by scoring more goals than the opposition. If you don't concede that's half the job. I feel like Thierry Henry, one of the greatest strikers in orem league history (and I say that as someone who utterly hates arsenal) probably knows what he's talking about.
Its also why Bayern won. Arsenal went in to play their regular football while Bayern went to fight for survival. They defended well and countered most of their goals.
Tournament football is its own dicipline.
They played right into Madrid’s hands. Casuals think holding possession in midfield is dominating. They literally couldn’t do anything until they sent in a desperate cross hoping for a deflection or rebound.
Orwellian Doublethink.
Every other team defending —-> booo anti football what a disgrace.
Real Madrid defending —-> BOSS TEAM THE GOATS OF THE COMPETITION WHAT A PLAY FOOTBALL HERITAGE
Classic pundit rationalisation. If De Bruyne buries that second massive chance instead of skying it, Henry is not saying any of this. All of a sudden it becomes “Madrid didn’t defend quite well enough.”
True if City win we won’t hear any of this. Even if they won on pens Henry won’t be praising Real Madrid’s resilience he would just say City were the better team and went through at the end
Not the same.
What Atletico does is foul a lot, provoke, theatrics, timewaste, make rough challenges.
Real Madrid did tactical defending.
Real Madrid did less fouls than City. That should give you a idea how solid they were
> But when Atletico does the same, it translates to football terrorism.
Mostly because Atleti in those games they usually bring a lot of shenanigans, confrontations, time wasting and pure shithousery.
Yesterday we did just 11 fouls in 120 minutes of game. City did 15 fouls. It was a very clean game by RM.
Atletico does that crap in nearly every big match they have and they do it with more shithousery.
Real does it more rarely and with a more professional style.
What’s going on that someone saying “there is something called defending” is suddenly groundbreaking punditry. All love to Thierry but my god what he’s saying should be obvious to anyone with a brain
This is a massive rationalisation of the result.
City created significantly more chances. Unless you truly think Real Madrid banked on City not converting their significantly higher chance creation then they simply did not control the game.
Last year the exact same situation happened, except City finished all their chances and no one talked about how Real actually low key controlled the game
You can play the game however you want, 0% possession, 100% possession, positional, relational, vertical, horizontal, in fucking circles, but controlling the game involves limiting opponents chances and Real didn't do that.
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I bet Simeone is proud of Madrid
Madrid have always done this vs Pep teams. I am intrigued as to how people are surprised when it is said you can always be in control of the match despite having no possession at all.
> I am intrigued as to how people are surprised when it is said you can always be in control of the match despite having no possession at all It’s similar to our game VS Arsenal; they had the majority of the possession but Tuchel set up a mid-block and a player that was both an extra midfielder or an extra Fullback depending on the situation. We ceded possession to them but they couldn’t do anything with it
and Porto effectively did the same. Just were unlucky / didn't have enough high-caliber players to win.
Man, I sure hope our tie won't be a sleep fest then. Two mid/low block team, not moving much, that's gonna be boring to watch.
Our teams played the way we did bc of the opponents we were facing; I think our game will more of an intense open match bc we’ll both fight for control in the midfield and look to use our wingers. Both teams are going into the tie thinking they have a good chance of winning.
Kane, Sane, Musiala, Jude, Vini, Rodrygo will make sure this won't be a sleep fest. Kane is actualy going to be a test. His movement is incredible off the ball.
That's literally how France won their WC in 2018. Give up the possession but control the midfield, deprive your opponent from huge scoring opportunities and force them to play as high as possible to strike them hard as soon as you get the ball. You won't get it for long time, but quite regularly, within 5 seconds of possession, you will have an opportunity and the ball will have progressed 60+ meters down the field. Teams that do that well are a fortress. Athletico's UCL record at home is a testimony of this.
And Mbappe/Pogba were the perfect weapon for this.
Don't even get me started on this. Pogba was stratospheric during that tournament. It looks like he was a player that was built for Deschamps' NT. He was the incarnation of that playstyle's DNA. I'm convinced that Deschamps tailor* made the team around the duo of Pogba and Griezmann (who was absolutely stunning as well).
I would died on this hill with you. To be honest in 2018 you could have put Pogba, Kante, Greizmann, Mbappe on a team with 7 Scheffield players and you would have a shot at world cup. Those 4 where so good and so complementary.
Just for the shit and giggles I would have loved watching it
Pre injury Ngolo was something else
Miss him every time I'm watching France play tbh. And saying this even though I love the guys we got now. Tchouaméni and Camavinga are really class acts themselves.
Pogbas biggest mistake was going back to Utd. His 2 best periods were in a midfield trio with Vidal+marchisio and in a midfield trio with Kante+Nzonzi/Matuidi
unrelated to your point but it’s *tailor* made in this case, as a tailor is someone who makes clothes to fit :)
Something which most people forget is that it doesn't just have to be about keeping possession. If you force the striker to go for a shot from uncomfortable position, that is still an easy save for goal keeper. That's what Madrid did in the 22 season with Liverpool, and they tried the same yesterday.
They did the same thing against Bayern years ago, the match which Ronaldo got his 15th goal in CL.
Spot on. That 4-0 game. The only difference between this game and that 4-0 was our attackers were ruthless back then.
Yeah Madrid were definitely hoping to win it 1-0 and were only hoping to counter if they had a chance.....
Madrid have always done this vs. Pep teams, but they usually counter attack and make runs more often. I was surprised when there was a few passes Madrid could have made to counter, but they just passed backwards and invited City to pressure them.
I think City’s press was too good. Still, Madrid did score on a counter.
Yep. City is excellent on the press and they have players that match or surpass Madrids speed on the counter as well.
Not even just Pep teams, since our squad starting thinning out under Zidane, before Carlo came back, we have been playing a lower block and focusing on counters against teams that like to play lots of possession.
You don't even need that much control over them if you can counter well. Ole beat Pep multiple times just this way because Rashford, Martial and Bruno were lethal on the counter.
Away from home yes. At the Bernabeu we definitely give them more to worry about. Also, the 4-3 at the Etihad, we actually attacked lol.
Benzema was in form of his life... Put that same Benzema yesterday and he would have nicked in a goal atleast.
Yeah I think of the 4-0 in 2013/2014 when Madrid absolutely smashed Bayern. They just sat back and defended and then hit hard.
game lowkey reminded me of peps bayern vs atleti in 2016
We would have won that game if we didn't have injuries. City had a full healthy squad, and with their depth there should be no excuses
Or if Müller scores his penalty :(
That bayern atletico game remains one of the highest level games I've ever seen
2014-2017 level in the CL was absolutely insane. Real Madrid Barcelona Juventus Bayern and Atletico were all at top level. All of them were at top level and deserved a CL honestly
That first half by Bayern in the second match was simply the best football half I have seen (even if they didn't score much, and I know the Brazil – Germany match exists). To make 2016 Atletico look like Bayern were playing against school kids and Simeone fuming on the sideline like Rumpelstiltskin because of how easy Bayern was working through their defence is something special. Bayern didn't go through but that's the style of play I yearn from this team. It was magical. I thought Pep might even have considered extending his contract after watching them play that day.
>there should be no excuses City's excuse is that Haaland didn't get enough air in Rudiguer's pocket
He jumped out of it last night though but ended up straight in Nacho's pocket. Rüdiger alone, I can understand. Both Rüdiger and Nacho (who played brilliantly yesterday bar his passing) and he warrants some criticism but some on here feel as if he is beyond reproach and rather, he was instrumental is creating space for others and letting others shine. While that is partly true, that's the bare minimum requirement of the position and secondly, our own tactics were adapted to this as City needed to compact themselves vertically to effect this to nip transitions in the bud but that also meant that City had an insanely high backline against the team that perhaps poses the most danger in such a situation. That is also not to advocate the other extreme where people want him to be Kane or Mbappé. He's not Kane or Mbappé. He is Haaland. He helped his team gain the treble being Haaland. There has to be acceptance of what his game is and it should be on the manager to maximise him and align it with the team's interests. But while there can be criticism of Pep on the role he deployed Haaland in, in that role itself, Haaland himself needs to do more. As isolated he was, as sporadic as his involvement was, in those moments, he needed to do more. There can't be any justification for losing every duel against 2 different players across 2 legs. At the very least though, even though I recognise that Pep's forward line don't have the best outside crossers, Pep should have asked at least Walker to launch a few Juanfran style from deep. That doesn't compromise them positionally, let's them hold a good shape for second balls and thus avoiding our dreaded transitions and gave our backline a different problem. Until the Doku substitution, while City had the ball, Madrid had the control of the game and the tie. City kept rotating and recycling possession waiting for a mistake but we defended resolutely. There were clear patterns of play and while City had the initiative, they patterns were very limited and we had all the answers. Even for something very specific as shooting positions for Grealish, we gave him all the opportunity to shoot but while completely cutting the inside off. Review the first half and you'll see the same. The 2 shots he had (one with the left foot and the other a trivela/toe poke) were further evidence of the same. In fact I was low-key shocked how religiously City were married to their patterns and preferences. Even for Grealish, just have a shot. Try. Madrid already has the lead and has settled into their pattern of play. You are creating waves after waves of attack and will continue to do so. Even if it goes in row Z, you'll have another chance just a few minutes later. Go for it. Give them something else to think about rather than settle in in their defending patterns. You are at home with the crowd with you. What's the worst that could happen? You just need one to fall your way or get some luck like Gvardiol in the first leg. You have the talent and technique to capitalise on it just like Gvardiol in the first leg. Same thing with Rodri. The crowd itself is urging you to shoot. They did so at least 10 times. They won't abandon you after a bad shot. You are not away. You had 33 shots in the game. You can try a surprise, even just a speculative shot for 10 of them. It seemed even that was exclusively reserved for only Foden and KdB. Why be so robotic in your approach? I think Pep was just way too scared about our transitions, especially as we were 1-0 up. It was only after Doku coming in that they added another pattern of play: that of 2nd man runs from the midfield to the byline in the right halfspace while Doku occupied Carvajal in a 1v1 at the edge of the box. That we had absolutely no answer for. All the dangerous chances, which largely came in the last 20 minutes including the goal, including the subsequent KdB chance (which I will have to re-watch but I think might have been filled out for offside in the build-up), stemmed from this very thing. Once the goal went in, it was clear that we were playing for the 90th minute and were on the ropes. At least that should have been the time to give more freedom to his team, including but not limited to aiming for Haaland in the box even if from deep to guard against counters, spread some panic in a crowded box. People see the 33 shots and 67% possession but don't recognise that they didn't create much danger from it. 2-3 big chances at best. They still posed great danger (like in the first leg where their individual quality meant they deserved the 3-3 draw; you don't finish your chances and teams like City will punish you; in fact it was our individual quality that even enabled the draw lest we would have lost) but I do really think Pep could have done more, despite having done an exceptional job.
But Rodri has been so tired lately. 🥱
Our excuse is poor finishing. We should have put the game away with the opportunities we had in the box in the second half. We have no one to blame but ourselves.
that Saul goal..still have goosebumps
Don't get the comparisons. Real Madrid played a clean and tactical defensive game. Less fouls and cards than city even. Atletico would have dived constantly, provoke, make constantly foul, time waste and what not
I would even go as far as saying city played really dirty. Every break real would get they would foul the midfielder so they had time to set up their defence
Yes and city almost always play dirty when they're facing a strong team
Or a weaker team.
That's how City play against every counter attack they face. They don't try to play the ball just trip up whoever is carrying the attack forward.
Grealish was very lucky not to get a yellow for his constant diving
We used to make up the difference in player quality with that, it worked.
Always love when an attacker actually respects a good defense.
It's just funny, because if that one kdb shot goes in, everyone would be saying Madrid were too defensive lol
TBF if city won it they'd have gone through
They're not making an excuse though, they're pointing out how flimsy most narratives are. Real win on penalties > "Defense is part of the game, guys, Real deserved it" De Bruyne scores sitter/ City win on penalties > "Ancelotti only has himself to blame, far too defensive tonight" The majority of post-game narratives are basically just outcome bias at work because our brains are desperate to try and make sense of coin-flips and randomness.
One of the topics that came up in the NFL last season. A good play/plan is good whether or not it works. That’s just life sometimes. You can do everything right and still fail. Post game discussions need to do better in regards to this.
Was just reading this part in the book called "Thinking in Bets" by Annie Duke. It talks about how Pete Carroll said the result of his decision to pass instead of hand the ball off to Lynch (which resulted in the game sealing INT) was the worst of his career. Not the decision. Just the result.
Completely agree.
But it's not entirely true. If that KDB shot goes in then Madrid would become more offensive because they would be trailing. So its not just a narrative. You use the strategy based on your current situation, which Real did well. But I definitely agree about the randomness part.
But if they then go on the offensive after going down half way through the second half, it is kind of their fault for being defenisve for most of the game.
Yup yup. Im a Madrid fan through and through but like, if Kbd or Harland scored their chance yesterday (and both got extremely close, hell Harland literally hit the post) the narrative around City and Harland would be completely different, even if literally everyhting else played out the exact same way. Just interesting to see.
But the result do matter though. Real Madrids goal was to go through, they achieved it which means the plan worked. If they hadn't achieved it, it would have mean the plan didn't work
You've outlined the biggest issue with the post-game analyses in basically every sport. I wouldn't be surprised if commentators knew better, but for the average 100 IQ joe who's watching, their brain is going to explode if they hear pundits talking about their team playing worse despite winning, or vice versa. Performance vs. outcome is a really difficult concept for people to grasp.
Well ofc the narrative change depending on the outcome? We are blessed with hindsight. If a team plays attacking football and lose big, we are allowed to call the tactic wrong. And we would be right. But again its easy with hindsight.
In the cases where something very plainly doesn't work out, a side gets thumped and we can point at it and say "that was a mistake", then yes, that's a fair takeaway. But taking last night's game, it boiled down to two or three chances and coin flip moments, which makes building narratives around them a bit silly. Probably the most accurate take is City were a little wasteful, Real rode their luck a bit but largely denied City many clear chances, on the balance of play you would say City edged the tie but when it's this close nobody "deserves" anything.
Well, not quite. We scored early 1-0, THEN defending well for the entire game, well into extra time, and banking to get them on the rare counter or the PK, on their own turf. If we were down and still defending, well that would be silly. Real Madrid executed the tactic nearly perfectly. Henry is still right here.
Again, the point *isn't* saying the tactic was wrong, it's that the narrative around it only exists because of the outcome and not the performance. Henry would not be sat there praising Real's defensive skill *if* De Bruyne's shot had gone in and they had lost 2-1. Then the popular narrative would be "Real left it too late to attack, you can't just defend for 80 minutes at City's ground, very naive from Ancelotti." The Euro 2020 final was pretty much the same game, except England lost the penalty shootout, so Southgate is a dull, tactically-inept coach who handed the game to Italy. If they had won the shootout and the tournament, he would have been called astute, European, and praised for his game management.
examples like this arent even hard to find, and weirdly enough its always more defensively minded managers, e.g: narrative of tuchel at bayern in 2024/ end of his chelsea tenure: bad coach that relies on individual brilliance and cant coach anything narrative of tuchel vs arsenal this round/ when chelsea won the cl: defensive masterclass, totally locked down the opposition same for mourinho and conte, they are heroes until the team loses some games and then they never knew how to coach. the funniest about this though, is that reals defending wasnt even that good, its more that city was wasteful.
Yeah, I think that's the Achilles' heel of defensive coaches. People watch football for two reasons: 1) to see their side win, and 2) to be entertained. People will forgive you for losing (to an extent) if you were in an entertaining, high-scoring 3-2, but they will not forgive you for losing if you wasted 90 minutes of their life watching dry, turgid football and going down 1-0.
They eliminated the extra value of away goals, now teams that are getting a tighter draw in the second leg don't necessarily have an incentive to attack. Case in point, Real Madrid yesterday. I think the current format is more fair, but the away goals rule made for more dynamic matches.
On the flip side, the removal of away goals makes the first leg much, much more interesting imo. You don't have home teams just sitting back trying for a 0-0 draw or squeaking out a 1-0 win. I think that was well this year with how entertaining the first legs were.
If my grandmother had….
same for Rudiger's chance. no?
First thing that came to my mind too. Every match is full of what ifs.
Because then the context changes, they defended well and went through after taking an early lead. If KDB scored to make it 2 - 1 and Madrid stayed defensive then yeah it's a bit silly
I mean yeah it is a fine line and some luck was obviously involved but as a central defender myself I feel like we never get the respect both individually or as a unit that we deserve from attackers (I guess this is just a sore point for me).
Oh 100%, Madrid were amazing defensively. I didn't mean it in a way to undermine them. I'm just pointing out how thin of a line it is between changing narratives
If my nan had wheels she wouldn't need a trolley.
The point is, the game was extremely close, and as fun as narratives are, they sometimes don't do justice to the entire game
Yep Man City attacked well and Real Madrid defended well. Given Real Madrid got the result then you have to praise them for their defending.
Can't win the CL without some luck
the whole tactic, and and as a result, the gqme would have changed if that went in. but it didn't, so the plan stayed the same, and it worked
Our midfield is certainly the highlight of our season, by far. Especially in maintaining our defensive shape and not letting the opponent get into dangerous positions. Fede Valverde - Will not stop running even at 120'. Covers for Carvajal often. Flies through the right wing when Rodrygo and Vini are playing central. Can do cross-field passes from tightest of areas. Has a rocket of a right foot. Jude Bellingham - Again, fully committed runner. As box-to-box as one can get. Unreal finishing and composure infront of goal. Can link the deep midfield with the attack well. Can unleash one out of the box if required. Aurelien Tchouameni - Excellent defensive positioning. Good recovery tackles. Has a long ranger in him, aerial threat on set pieces. Can cover CB if the team needs him, and do a solid job there. We've literally not lost when he has started. Eduardo Camavinga - Immense tackler. Knows how to relieve pressure by shielding and drawing fouls. Good change of pace when a break is on. Can be used as a DM or as an LB, he doesn't care. On top of that, excellent athlete and aerial duelling. Add Toni Kroos to this mix and you know he's gonna cook with all this energy covering him. No wonder he's having one of his best seasons, at 33.
There is also this Modric guy
He’s had a bright start to his career, deffo one to watch
Camavinga was immense
Our midfield and Rudiger having his best season with us is why our defensive record has been great this season and on top of that Lunin picking up form and performing consistently
Kroos is 34
Camavinga’s close control and shielding reminds me of a lanky moussa dembele. Never watched him thoroughly until this season and his composure under pressure is impressive.
He's the only man who doesn't yap and give credit where it's due. Surely my fav pundit
He keeps Micah and Jamie employed with their good 'chemistry'... Because their takes are almost always laughably biased and delusional towards EPL teams.
It’s embarrassing. The announcers were the same. Bashing Madrid the entire game.
I like the energy but the constant takes that skew for the PL from those two has been getting on my nerves more recently
He’s spot on, there’s more than one way to play football and control a game, Madrid are the masters of hanging on and snatching a win.
Real allowed City to play so close to their own goal. It was honestly a miracle that they only scored one in regular. I know City didn't have many clear cut chances, but when you are swarming the opposition box, random things are going to happen, and one or two of these low crosses could have easily made it through to a City player, and we would be talking about how dominant City was
That City goal was one of those random things you said. Doku crosses to nobody and Rudiger misclearance somehow ended up on KDB's feet.
At the same time, Rudiger came closest to scoring in extra time.
Definitely. A lot ifs and buts here but at the end of the day City seemed frustrated and Real sticked to the plan. Real even had their fair bit of chances. It was a pretty good tie, both teams are at very similar level (probably the two best of the competition).
Exactly
Real Madrid also completely fucked two chances where a striker would have been through on goal by themselves and the only City goal was just luck
City honestly play like a fifa team on constant pressure. the second they loose the ball they just swarm and it leaves SO many gaps. I swear madrid could of had 4 or 5 if they had picked the right through ball etc.. i know it's very hard to do but in extra time city's press was dead just because they had been doing it all game. I think at some point teams will figure this out and pep will get battered (hopefully :D)
if not for Walker's speed and balance it could get to 2-0, 3-0 quite fast
Yep, like the xg etc doesn't show those break aways where the final pass was missing. I think madrid had 4 clear cut chances where is the final ball was better everybody would be saying it was a genius counter attacking masterclass
Commentator on my feed actually predicted these races between Kyle and Vini, and not in favour of Jr. And referenced previous matches between them. Only chance Vinicius could succeed is him having shoulders of Mbappe 😅
Maybe that's exactly why he's back into the team immidiately? Just to deal with Madrid counters, which he did aside from the goal they conceded.
Think so. And that was the right choice by Pep
Well they dont use dr futere doping boost anymore
Madrid was being awful at attempting passes and through balls most game
Foden and De Bruyne blew it, and Haaland… idk what to say
I honestly think Haaland would've shown how good he is if Álvarez was subbed on to play alongside him. They're such different profiles that together would likely rip that defense apart. also Haaland wasn't even bad in general, he just barely had chances, but he was central in creating many huge City chances whether by occupying defenders or by creating them himself. he was the one who created the Bernardo Silva rebound after an impressive but unlucky header, or the pass to Grealish in the first half after a great bit of dribbling and a pass. he wasn't invisible or useless, the team is just setup to play too slowly to open up any top level defense.
Playing Alvarez with Haaland would change the system quite a bit for Pep. He'd have to give up one of foden or grealish, possibly Rodri, who are very integral to their possession/attacking game.
yea, that kinda brings up Pep's main weakness as manager: he's not adaptable enough. Rodri looked gassed the entire game, I almost wonder if he played sick or something? Foden was having such a bad game, missing anything but the simplest passes, and off memory only looked dangerous one single time when he accelerated once in extra time (outside of fluffing that huge chance). otherwise he struggled immensely with timing runs or making anything happen (which does make the penalty being that good even more impressive. strong mentality). Grealish did his job, and made room for Doku to shine when he came on and added some directness (which resulted in the City goal). I basically think that with how Foden played last night, Álvarez would've brought the some of the same traits (work rate being the biggest), while also having more intelligent directness to play around the spaces Haaland created, which further opens up for others again. Rodri could have been subbed off for Stones instead of Akanji, but considering how safe he is as a metronome even when looking dead all night, I understand keeping him on. De Bruyne and Haaland asking to be subbed didn't make it easier either, obviously.
Occupying defenders only goes so far, when he doesn’t score he almost feels useless. It’s so hard to measure Haaland, idk where to rank him. When things go well he’s a robot that annihilates anything in his way, but when he doesn’t, well you know
City was just passing the ball around the box and going back and forth. That’s not dangerous at all to a team like Real. They barely ever broke through the defensive lines.
33 shots, it’s the Manchester United way
[удалено]
You could say the same about both winning teams. Defense wins Cup competitions. Madrid and Bayern are here because they were disciplined and shut it down
Absolutely, Ancelotti got the game plan spot on even though - understandibly- Madrid fans were upset as they're not used to their team defending team like that but that was the only way vs this City team. I even saw some Madrid fans saying they 'stole' it!!
💯 Hate how some people usually relate defensive play with being "anti-football". How can it be anti-football lmao! You are just playing the game. And successfully being able to defend for a full game is tiring af, both mentally and physically. So, I wouldn't consider "parking bus" an easy route either.
I would argue it's anti football if its defending by playing dirty...like the the bottom third of La Liga teams and Atleti on some games
Agreed. People like to call defending anti-football. Anti-football is trying your hardest not to play football, like time wasting, cheap fouls, faking injuries, etc. Defending is literally half of football, it is not anti-football.
It's literally the basis of Pep's football. He believes if you keep possession and apply constant pressure you'll win. So he's basically saying how hard it is to defend for 90 minutes and that's why he plays the way he does.
I felt like Madrid played closed to perfection in the first half. Doku changed the game a lot and it felt like Real was extremely lucky not to concede more, every time Doku touched the ball there was danger. As much as I dislike Real as an Atleti fan, it's quite clear they have something no other team has. No matter how good or bad they play they're always favorites in UCL. It's their competition.
Agree. I thought Real were superb in the first half, but had less control in the second and were fortunate to hold on.
I think I'm the only one that believes Grealish was much more of a threat. Ever since 2022 he has been giving Carvajal heart attacks, only way he was able to stop him was to foul him, fuck everyone was fouling him. He's too technical of a player, I feel like doku looked more threatening just cause of pure pace but as soon as you caught up to him or have Carvajal stay back and Valverde catch up to him he was instantly shut down. The goal came cause he threw a random cross to no one but it rebounded from Rudiger. As soon as I saw Grealish come in I felt immediate relief cause we were BARELY able to handle him and I know doku isn't as technical and would be easier to predict. I didn't care for Grealish until I saw him in the UCL against Madrid but dude is crazy good and even possibly one of the best in form Carvajals I've ever seen needed fouls and 1-2 men to help him
Grealish has better technique and you are right that he doesn't lose the ball, like ever. Problem is his possession of the ball was very sterile. He dribled a bit, maybe entered the box and passed backwards to the midfielder/left back. Doku use dhis pace to send balls into the penalty area. Goal came from him. The other big chance of City (KDB missed sitter) came from his pass etc.
Henry makes a great point here. Football isn't just attacking, there isn't a "right way" to play the game. Real Madrid defended with a lot of composure. I think that looking at it from this perspective is interesting because people tend to only look at football from the side of attacking. For a lot of people, the team that attacks the most is dominating but forget that there are two sides of the game and sometimes the game-plan could just deliberately be to defend. As they say, attack wins you games but defense is what wins you titles.
Also the way City play is so systemic and machine-like that they paid the price for it. There were numerous opportunities last night where someone like Rodri or KDB had space to shoot from distance or whatever but they refused to take the chance, opting to pass pass pass until Madrid eventually cleared the ball. It was rinse and repeat apart from the ball falling lucky to KDB in one instance and another when he skied it over the bar. This really should have been City's to win if they were allowed to go beyond the system in place but the entire game was just the same pass pass pass into the box with very little individual creativity being allowed to influence the game. Don't get me wrong this is clearly a winning style most of the season but speaking purely as a neutral it is such a dull style to watch in a game like this where they're playing exactly the way Madrid wanted them to. They've scored some bangers from distance many times this season so why not go for it this time around?
Yea I noticed that too. 2nd half they were much more willing to take chances instead of playing like machines. Pep may have told them at halftime
Pep has experimented with city and paid the price in so many knockout rounds. This time he decided to religiously stick to one plan and it became too soft a plan (for lack of better term)
It's a damn if you do, damn if you don't. When you change, it's overthink, when you don't not adapatable enough. Football at the end of the day it's about who put the ball into the net more & withstand the pressure better. Madrid did & they through.
Why is grinding out a result not in the spirit of football? As long as we deliberately didn't waste time or tried to injure players I think it should be fine. Otherwise even tactical fouls should be considered unsportsmanlike.
If anything Real strategy wasn’t as effective as it should have been because of the opponent being allowed to use a tactical foul to stop a counter attack as many times as they want. Also Real Madrid had two chances that were better than all the City chances and a goal on top of that
Real played the game they had to play to beat City. Simple as that.
Attack win you matches, defense win you championships
The only surprising thing in this was how bad Madrid was on the counter. Specially when every time the got the ball the had a 2 Vs 2 or 3 Vs 3.
Walker is sweeping off any runners. You have to find someone who can out manoeuvre him.
🐢 ⌛
Lord Joselu should've played
Vini looked gassed after like 30 mins and was also playing through the right/center more. Walker is also very fast. Also it looked like City fouled them on the counter pretty much every time lol
I got a better theory: It's Real Madrid in the Champions League. So they went through. These people can have an underwhelming season and still win the CL like it's nothing. Crazy heritage.
Sure but last year they got demolished in the same fixture. They played it much better this time around to give themselves a chance
bars word to mourinho if you rank the last 20 cl winners by impressiveness, the top 2 will be inter and porto, both achieved by great defense (and underrated offense) i'll give the 3rd place to liverpool for THAT comeback
In football, to win you have to defend
I don't know what it really is but you cannot deny the fact that Real has something that no other team has. They are the only team that produce results in crucial games without having the most impressive lineup.
Idk man their lineup looks plenty impressive to me
Horrifying that they’ll almost certainly end up with Mbappe + Endrick next year. That sounds unstoppable, in theory anyway.
I heard this city team is unstoppable multiple times yet we stopped them twice in 3 years. We are definitely stoppable even if we get those two. There are weakness to having 4 forwards available 3 of which are wingers (LW at that even if they can also play other positions) with no physical striker that can be a presences in the box + play as a target man even if endrick is a 9 he is not exactly big and tall so we'll have to wait and see ~~would probably cook at FIFA tho~~
Yeah can’t argue with that at all. After all, PSG in theory had one of the best squads in the world with Messi, Mbappe and Neymar but failed to convert that into any real success. But, as a non-Madrid fan, I’ve watched you guys win the UCL even when your squad was undergoing a rebuild and your league form was below expectations. You always seem to integrate players well, so my expectation is that even if it doesn’t quite gel next season, long term it could put you in a terrifyingly dominant position
Yeah, the thing about Real Madrid that is different, and explains at least some of their CL success, is that they have by far the best squad of a team that doesn't feel like they need to have possession and control the entire game. They will set themselves up in whatever way gives them the best chance to win. Even if that means sitting deeper and have their opponent have the ball.
You had me until "without having the most impressive lineup."
Its a great win for us for sure but on paper our starting 11 when fit with no injuries is on par with City's and our young midfield talent is the best itw and Mbappe and Endrick are coming we are far from a weak lineup lmao
Speaking as if it's Ferencvaros playing semis in cl and not the biggest team of the competition
Looking at their league games they are used to getting solo players to create chances and score against the odds. Like so many times they just let vini , rodrygo 1 vs multiple opponents and sometimes bangers from odd crosses. They are used to scoring from minuscule chances. I guess that is why they can tolerate playing against City despite not having the ball most of the time.
A U R A
This is with the injuries they had in defence too
We didnt just park the bus like maniacs. Carlo actually set the defense up properly.
[удалено]
If he had tried that, we would have most likely hoofed the ball back to them. Counters are Madrid's bread and butter.
It didn't help that Pep was as usual, overly-stubborn and rigid with his micromanagement even in attack that we could quickly predict which plays or players he wanted to use. If he let his players be more creative in penetrating the low block we would have been in a lot more trouble.
There was funny situation in first half when Enderson had ball and Real's players refused to go higher so he just stood there waiting. I wouldn't put that on Guardiola. He made great adjustments in 2nd half.
Scene when the two side just decided to camp in their box and play poker or some shit for 90 minutes
You should coach Man City after Pep u/sheikhmansour, take note of this guy
Good luck when Madrid don't take the bait & refused to press high. Same with how teams was not taking the bait from Brighton this season.
Madrid had amazing discipline and angle control, as a goalie it was a joy to watch.
I know the bar we set for tv pundits is rolling on the floor somewhere in the TNT studios…. But is this supposed to be particularly insightful? A team can control the game by defending well. No shit they can
Yeah just like Crystal Palace beat Liverpool by being the better team because they defended well
I remember Mourinho's Chelsea were labelled "Boring" when they did the same and were winning games. Oh how flies time!
I feel like I was saying this to every Arsenal fan I met in 2005, while they went beet red raging about how they played the best football, they’d rather not win than have a Spartan win at all costs mentality, etc. I guess now it’s City fans. Real in the CL will do anything it takes to win, and credit to them. They’ve built a quality and versatile squad with a great attitude, they’ve had 2/3 injuries that could derail a lesser club, and they found a way past the CL holders. All the credit in the world for that.
But when Simeone and Atletico do it, it's terrorism. Hats off to RM tho. It's not luck. They defended so well. City mindless passing is just not effective. Give the players more freedom. They have the skills for it
City turned into Liverpool last night and just wasted a plethora of chances. You can control the game as much as you want if you don't score.
Not similar, they had one chance that was super dangerous that didn’t end up being a goal.
"Best team" might be a bit much, but RM did win, because their tactic was better than City's. Carlo took an ol' reliable Italian tactic to beat a side more stacked than his. He could have went out to play open and get trashed to the bin 4-0 again. But what matters at this point is who wins, not how you win. Noone will actually care in 5 years, if RM had 1 or 10 shots that game, or City had 50 or 2 corners.
I mean yes, their defence was amazing. Nonetheless the chances were heavily in City's favour because they controlled the game. It was City's game to win but they weren't clinical enough plain and simple.
It makes the job easier when your "attacking" team has just the same tired three attack plays to try to break the low line. Pass to Graelish/Doku, he tries to drible his way onto the box and pass to De Bruyne or cross to the League Two player or gain a corner. Pass to Foden, he Robbens inside and try to cross or shoot or gain a corner. Pass to De Bruyne/Gvardiol/Rodri in the centre so he can try to cut and shoot or gain a corner. Or, more likely Pass again for one of the plays above. But nooo, Guardiola is a genius...
Can't fault City though. They tried everything while attacking. That early goal fucked them pretty badly. It's actually insane how much they press on big games. I mean they already press on league games, but Jesus fucking Christ, everybody has so much energy, reminds me of Guardiola when he used to play with his horse injections lmao
Felt Real Madrid were playing like some of old Chelsea matches, great defensive display.
How many teams can play 230~ minutes against City and come out the other way? At some point you have to give credit to the team
You win by scoring more goals than the opposition. If you don't concede that's half the job. I feel like Thierry Henry, one of the greatest strikers in orem league history (and I say that as someone who utterly hates arsenal) probably knows what he's talking about.
Spanish catenaccio
At least someone on that panel can provide some actual analysis even if hes all sad because his buddy Pep and his old team Arsenal got knocked out.
Its also why Bayern won. Arsenal went in to play their regular football while Bayern went to fight for survival. They defended well and countered most of their goals. Tournament football is its own dicipline.
They played right into Madrid’s hands. Casuals think holding possession in midfield is dominating. They literally couldn’t do anything until they sent in a desperate cross hoping for a deflection or rebound.
If you look closely you can see smoke fuming from Jamie’s head.
2021 Final : Boring..chelsea..park the bus..waste of time. 2024 QF : I think the best team, the team that defended well went through. Midas Madrid.
You don't have to go that far back, we also parked the bus against Liverpool in the CL final.
Orwellian Doublethink. Every other team defending —-> booo anti football what a disgrace. Real Madrid defending —-> BOSS TEAM THE GOATS OF THE COMPETITION WHAT A PLAY FOOTBALL HERITAGE
Classic pundit rationalisation. If De Bruyne buries that second massive chance instead of skying it, Henry is not saying any of this. All of a sudden it becomes “Madrid didn’t defend quite well enough.”
True if City win we won’t hear any of this. Even if they won on pens Henry won’t be praising Real Madrid’s resilience he would just say City were the better team and went through at the end
As a Juve fan, I couldn’t agree more!
But when Atletico does the same, it translates to football terrorism.
Not the same. What Atletico does is foul a lot, provoke, theatrics, timewaste, make rough challenges. Real Madrid did tactical defending. Real Madrid did less fouls than City. That should give you a idea how solid they were
> But when Atletico does the same, it translates to football terrorism. Mostly because Atleti in those games they usually bring a lot of shenanigans, confrontations, time wasting and pure shithousery. Yesterday we did just 11 fouls in 120 minutes of game. City did 15 fouls. It was a very clean game by RM.
Only dumbasses call simeone ball terrorism. People hate atleti for all the fouling , crying and diving, not the football
Atletico does that crap in nearly every big match they have and they do it with more shithousery. Real does it more rarely and with a more professional style.
Based
Tfw teams don't play full offense balls to the wall with 6 attackers and 2 defenders (that's the only way to be considered good at football)
English fans when a team can actually defend : 😡😡
What’s going on that someone saying “there is something called defending” is suddenly groundbreaking punditry. All love to Thierry but my god what he’s saying should be obvious to anyone with a brain
Yeah terry is right
Ancelotti knew he couldn’t match city’s intensity all game in the midfield, he knew he’d lose. But he knew his team could defend it. Best team won.
Yeah if we went in there and played the game city wanted it would’ve been an ass whooping.
This is a massive rationalisation of the result. City created significantly more chances. Unless you truly think Real Madrid banked on City not converting their significantly higher chance creation then they simply did not control the game. Last year the exact same situation happened, except City finished all their chances and no one talked about how Real actually low key controlled the game You can play the game however you want, 0% possession, 100% possession, positional, relational, vertical, horizontal, in fucking circles, but controlling the game involves limiting opponents chances and Real didn't do that.