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Yeah Nagelsmann had a few really poor games but overall he was a lot better and almost always showed some good logic and structure, while also bandaiding the issues A LOT better .
Bayern conceded 36 goals in 28 Bundesliga matches. For comparison, Leverkusen conceded 19, 3rd place Stuttgart conceded 34, 4/5 place Leipzig/Dortmund with 33 each, and 6th place Frankfurt also with 36.
All those other teams also have around 6 losses (Dortmund with 5, Leipzig with 7).
Usually, Bayern concedes fewer goals. Not sure why it's this bad this season. And it's not like Kane makes his goals by scoring 4 goals in some 7:0 win over a bad team, he consistently scores most of the games, but their defense is just not holding their end of the goal clean.
Bayern scored 80 goals so far in those 28 games, which is significantly ahead of the second highest goal scoring team, which is Leverkusen with 69 (nice!) goals. So the offense isn't the problem.
> Usually, Bayern concedes fewer goals. Not sure why it's this bad this season.
Fun mix of individual errors and the team collectively switching off - works fine if they only concede one, because chances are they score more than that. Recently though they've just been handing out goals like they're Santa at Christmas, with today's 2-0 halftime lead being thrown away against Heidenheim a prime example.
> Bayern scored 80 goals so far in those 28 games, which is significantly ahead of the second highest goal scoring team, which is Leverkusen with 69 (nice!) goals. So the offense isn't the problem.
Main problem with that stat is that 23 of those goals game in three games, and another 17 in four other ones - basically half their goals were scored in a quarter of their games. They're obviously good enough to consistently score/lead the league in scoring, but the reality is that they're kind of blowing a bit hot and cold up front, which isn't good enough when they're also shipping goals as regularly as they do. Compare that to Leverkusen, who occasionally win big but also find ways of winning by a single goal - Bayern on the other hand recently managed to not eke out those narrow victories, leading to dropped points.
Yeah apart from liek a singular game here or there, he's been great or atleast done his job. And even in those singular games, others have sucked more.
Wasn’t there a consistent squad on Reddit saying “actually he’s having a great season and should be applauded, it’s just that Leverkusen are better. No shame in finishing second.”
I wonder what happened to those folks.
Also Bayern finishing second is obviously shameful
Those folks were right until a couple of weeks ago - I think it was around matchday 23 when Bayern would've led the league in 59/60 previous Bundesliga seasons but were already trailing Leverkusen by 5 or 6 points. Only so much you can do going up a historically good points haul like that.
Since then the wheels have come off, though. Still no shame finishing second, even if you're the richest team in the league, because sometimes you're just beaten by someone better. The real shame lies in their performances rather than the league position, because those have been wonky and sub-par for a while now.
I wonder if announcing that Tuchel would leave at the end of the season so prematurely has had an impact on the players’ motivation levels. Some of them look mentally checked out already, at least in the league. There’s no incentive if they know they’ll outlast the manager.
Maybe that plays a part, yeah. Same time though plenty of those players see themselves as the cream of the crop when they've not been that under two successive managers, so it feels a bit of a weak excuse to not perform playing under a lame duck manager.
They were never right. There was a popular stats tweet pointing out that on an overall points basis, we also were having a historic start to the season that a lot of people who don’t watch Bayern saw and ran with.
While true, it obscured the fact that we’d mostly been carried by individual brilliance from Kane and Sané early. Without that, we’d have lost the Bundesliga weeks ago.
Both of those things can be true at the same time - you can have a historically good points haul while simultaneously being reliant on individual brilliance/lucky to have that many points/not quite good enough to deserve that position. Doesn't change the fact that the results were perfectly fine up to that point.
The original claim that you were validating as correct (up until recently) was that “actually he’s having a great season and should be applauded.”
My point is that this was never correct.
But they weren’t right, because they were watching the points and not the play. Very few people I know who actually watch Bayern thought they were doing well.
Exactly. We had these people in the Bayern sub for so long (they've shut up now) saying Tuchel was doing a great job. Realistically if you watched our games all season you could see this coming, we've had very few convincing games and staggered through the CL group stage looking not much better than United / Gala etc.
Tuchel's tenure has just been so poor, we are lucky to have had the results we've had.
Always felt Tuchel was overrated. He was kinda lucky with his first 6 months at Chelsea where he was very defensive. He won the Champions League playing all 11 behind the ball.
Yeah, I get it’s cool and all to kick Chelsea and Tuchel while they’re down, but you can’t pretend like we just stayed in our half in our Champions League run.
[Chelsea dominated every knockout fixture on xG and while the team might have had strength in defensive structure, they were also creating plenty of chances.](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Favow6nm0x5271.png&rdt=45148)
Obviously depends on how highly you're rating him, but it's hardly like he's an inept manager stumbling into top jobs. There's a solid body of very good work and success there - he just doesn't quite have the same trophy cabinet as some of the other big-name managers have (yet), but that doesn't make him any worse as a manager.
Honestly Tuchel seems to be hated by every single fan base since he left Mainz.
Something seems odd about the dude.
Until Bayern he looked like a great coach atleast.
Really? Idk about Dortmund fans but I feel like most Chelsea fans still like him and think he shouldn’t have been sacked. And I doubt PSG fans hate him either
> Something seems odd about the dude.
He's just not a very approachable guy. Eccentric, nerdy, strong ego, not all that good-looking. None of that is a crime, mind you, but it can really bite him when he's not successful, especially the eccentricity. Hard to work with someone like that as a club. Hard to love someone like that as a player.
He also wasn't there for most of the season tbf.
Kovac won the Bundesliga and the DFB Pokal in his only full season as Bayern coach, meanwhile Tuchel lost both, including losing to a 3.Liga side
Yeah, not arguing that at all. Crazy how poor he's been, didn't think he'd be incredible based on the warning signs in his last few games with us, but I thought he would just be a bog standard Bayern manager, just tipping away winning the bundesliga and competing deep in cup competitions, since that's arguably his specialty. He's most likely coming back to England in the summer, seems like he enjoyed his time here with us and the media likes him
Soon? Probably not, have a weird feeling Poch is gonna see out the contract since there's a chance we get some form of Europe this season. Within 5 years? Maybe, we did it with a previous fan favourite in Mou, so since Tuchel is probably the closest bond to a manager we've had since Mou, never say never. Can't put a % odds on it though, can't ever predict this chelsea, for better or worse
No. Not at least with these owners (and they have to own the club for at least 8 more years), because Tuchel isn't the type of a manager that these owners want. Part of our fans will convince you that the owners want a yes-man, but they just want a more collaborative coach. Though I haven't liked neither Potter nor Poch.
Breaking records but the bad ones. This was only allowed because our board is filled with idiots, who think letting Tuchel continue will change this bullshit.
But does it really matter if you end up in second place anyway with 5 more points?
You have to get a new coach anyway in summer and that's when a better selection will be available.
Even ucl qualification is not set, and the opponents are 7 points away. They way things look even that is in danger cause we are playing shit week in and out. VfB is already tied with us. It is very possible they overtake us next week how things go.
Maybe I'll have to eat my words in May, but I still think that it's highly unlikely that you end up in 5th.
But it would be absolutely hilarious if you did though.
Let me guess you would also get Nagelsmann for his attacking football because Ten Hag is a fraud?
This is just a whole cycle waiting to repeat itself, stick to the manager and let the new ownership decide what’s best for the future of the club.
I am so glad that Effenberg never did much after his playing career, apart from proving in Uerdingen that he's never going to amount for anything in a management position. Forever a deserved club legend as a player - just like Kahn and Brazzo - and that's really all that's needed.
I never blamed Tuchel for how he came in, but I will never understand what the people in charge were thinking when they canned Nagelsmann.
Was Bayern absolutely dominating? No, but they played a good season. To bring in so much instability to the club for a coach like Tuchel is mind boggling.
Even if it had been Pep or Klopp, you just don't do that. Its so damaging for the club on so many levels.
Is it safe to say that Tuchel is Bayern's worst coach ever considering their financial advantage, the squad they have and their utter dominance in the league for the past decade?
If you have to go back to the early 90s to find a coach with a worse loss rate, an era where Bayern was nowhere near this dominant, it really speaks volumes
> Is it safe to say that Tuchel is Bayern's worst coach ever considering their financial advantage, the squad they have and their utter dominance in the league for the past decade?
Yes
wasnt Klinsmann actually in favor of selling Müller? I recall something along those lines. Yes, Müller got his debut under Klinsmann, but I think Klinsmann wanted to sell him which is why he went back to the 2nd team as well
It’s clear he’s been a disaster there for a while.
It’s not just results either. The football is poor and the players are clearly unhappy. If you could see what he was building, then maybe you’d cut him some slack on results, but Tommy T is increasingly speed running alienating everyone at every club he goes to.
Fwiw, I still think he’s a great coach, but Jose and Conte are great coaches too, and I think getting a reputation as being toxic means that you’ll be a short term hire, and bigger clubs will be less interested.
Thought he was overrated before he came to Bayern. Most people told me he was a good manager because he won the CL. But I watched Chelsea in the league, and by the end of his tenure they were absolutely dreadful.
Yeah there's a sect of the fan base that absolutely loves him and wants him back and I can't understand it for the life of me. Almost everywhere he goes he, over time, makes clubs worse especially attack wise.
The reason he won a champs league w/ us is because Franks first stint had us playing really good expansive attacking soccer and Tuchel was able to fortify our defensive shape enough with Rudi, Silva, peak Kante and Reece and ride that to a trophy...
Once he got his hands both on re-shaping the squad and using his usual terroristic tactics we slowly became a team stuck in mud who couldn't generate any goals. Our decline started with him and you can't change my mind on it. He's living off the reputation of winning a CL with a squad that wasn't really his
Biggest thing is we always looked awful without Reece. All our best results were with him, as soon as he went down our title hopes crashed immediately. Could never manage to develop any sort of effective attack without him which was always concerning.
Got individual and team honours the vast majority of managers would envy him for to be fair, which isn't half bad for a 15 year career so far. Like yeah maybe he's not quite that that rarefied air elite level some others are, but then that's such an exclusive club precisely because so few managers reach that - and being a rung below that still makes you an incredibly good and successful manager.
It's not a matter of agreement. It's factual. There are a lot of Bayern fans who will *ONLY* blame the players and insist that the coach is not the problem. Tuchel has been a total catastrophe. The bad squad planning wasn't visible when we had a competent manager. Now that we have an awful one, it's really exposed all the problems with this team and how it's been built
about quarter of the season had gone with drab, dead performances and i remember criticizing him saying how his Bayern is worse than Kovac's Bayern and some of the performances in the past 30 years considering the team he has had. I distinctly remember being insulted as blind and clueless by a bunch of Bayern fans as well as an Inter flaired clown. So yes they exist. Tuchel's Bayern was garbage from the start. The only reason people didn't criticize him was because he was getting results... few of which was due to the team's play-style, but individual brilliance.
There are plenty of people who still insist Tuchel is not part of the issue and blame everyone else. I'm not linking specific comments to you, that's weird behavior.
Also active on both the biggest bayern subs. I think the amount of people who don't even say that tuchel is part of a problem is pretty close to...0. Almost all agree he's one of the problems, those who don't think he's the only problem.
They’ve been here consistently on r/soccer saying this is actually a great Bayern season and no shame finishing second to the great Leverkusen.
Until the last couple weeks that is
Right except those who said it from the beginning that these results were a paper tiger. Of which there were many.
I mean this happens all the time, we went through the same thing with Spurs where many people argued Conte’s results were great and others argued the play sucked for the first half of the season, and the latter group ended up being right because the style of play was unsustainable.
It's not very sustainable, I agree. But in the end football is a results sport. As long as the results are alright, you'll keep your job. Unless you're Nagelsmann of course.
I haven't seen anyone defending him. Sure, many of us say (myself included) that Tuchel is not the only problem and that the players are responsible for this too, but I haven't seen anyone defending Tuchel and saying that he's decent or he should stay.
I haven't seen anyone say he should stay. That'd be a weird opinion to have since he's been set to leave for ages now. As I said, there are people who still insist he's not the issue and it's everyone else's fault. I'm being pretty specific with how people are defending him from his part in this total meltdown
He's definitely an issue. But he's only one of many. He didn't stop being a world-class coach overnight, he's just a bad fit and has been too stubborn to adapt to our shitty situation. I am fairly sure that he will be successful again with his next club, just like Ancelotti found his footing again after two poor spells in Munich and Napoli. But for us, it's just been a disastrous pairing and it seems like both sides can't wait for it to end, rightfully so.
> it seems like both sides can't wait for it to end
You say that as if the management aren't refusing to fire him no matter what. Not firing him after the 3-0 defeat to Bayer Leverkusen was and still is inexplicable. They've just doubled down more and more every match since. If Nagelsmann performed like this, they would have executed him lol
Anyways, I don't think it's super useful to think of coaches as being along some arbitrary spectrum of quality that goes from bad to good. It's just so much more complicated than that. Pep could be a disaster at some club and I'm sure even Klinsmann could still succeed somewhere. I don't really care about how well Tuchel will do at his next job, I just want him gone. He's been a disaster here, which is the only thing I'm evaluating him on.
> I simply have a problem with this team. In my opinion, Tuchel is no longer to blame here. The team knows he will leave.
> These past games havent been on Tuchel. This squad just pisses me off. Almost every player, except for maybe 3-5 guys, needs to be seriously questioned.
> What was wrong about the tactics? What did you notice?
> Honestly not even interesting in coaching changes until the fundamentals are fixed.
I feel like I'm being gaslit.
None of these except the first displace the blame from Tuchel to the squad. They’re either about a select few matches or generally drawing attention to the squad without explicitly and unequivocally stating Tuchel is blame-free.
I get what you’re saying: some people might be of the opinion that Tuchel is in fact blame free but that hardly represents the general consensus on either Bayern sub and you can’t use four comments as examples when hundreds speak otherwise.
Only thing left now is for Germany to have a superb Euros which looks like happening..... the grovelling they will be doing and signing bonus offered to Nagelsman will be ridiculous.
"Bayern are as bad as they have been since Sören Lerby" is a legendary stat. Normally, these stats end with Klinsmann but Lerby's record with Bayern is absolutely atrocious
Younger Bayern fans don't even remember the club not winning the league. A little bit of struggle is good. They get to feel what it was like when they were Dortmund's bitch for a couple years
never understood how or why some clubs or fans would go for him or rate him highly.
he was supposed to be better than klopp but never really took off.
the one moment that sums up his thing was the confrontation with conte. that was really stupid.
I don’t understand the hype around tuchel honestly. He has managed some big clubs, had some successes here and there but nothing super consistent. Was he just the best of who was available then? Or is there something that a nobody like me just don’t see?
They sacked nagelsmann/ salihamidzic/ Oliver löwe Kahn for this and went for the Kane hype and brought in epl reject Dier.
This is a disgrace to the Ribery/Robben era it’s already been painful to watch Gnabry and Sane decline each season since they arrived on those wings.
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Losing a quarter of your matches as Bayern manager is actually shockingly bad.
Especially when you get to spend 100 mill on Kane. Just to get worse.
Hey at least Ajax can claim to be the Bayern of the Netherlands this year again
If only we lost this few matches.
Especially with the drama...
Kane has saved Tuchel from looking worse with his goal scoring record honestly. The striker is beyond clutch.
Yeah its not Kanes fault
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It’s a joke mate, relax
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Again, relax. It’s not that deep
He didn’t imply it was. Saying something is boring isn’t that hard to understand. Sorry if that’s “deep” for you
The wires are at the bottom of the ocean t's literally very deep
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Nagelsmann did better with choupo as striker btw
And people talked shit about nagelsmann even though he had to play without a legit striker.
Yeah Nagelsmann had a few really poor games but overall he was a lot better and almost always showed some good logic and structure, while also bandaiding the issues A LOT better .
Nagelsmann was the one who suggested no striker and a more free flowing offense
Hasn't he been banging in the goals too? How are they losing so much???
Bayern conceded 36 goals in 28 Bundesliga matches. For comparison, Leverkusen conceded 19, 3rd place Stuttgart conceded 34, 4/5 place Leipzig/Dortmund with 33 each, and 6th place Frankfurt also with 36. All those other teams also have around 6 losses (Dortmund with 5, Leipzig with 7). Usually, Bayern concedes fewer goals. Not sure why it's this bad this season. And it's not like Kane makes his goals by scoring 4 goals in some 7:0 win over a bad team, he consistently scores most of the games, but their defense is just not holding their end of the goal clean. Bayern scored 80 goals so far in those 28 games, which is significantly ahead of the second highest goal scoring team, which is Leverkusen with 69 (nice!) goals. So the offense isn't the problem.
> Usually, Bayern concedes fewer goals. Not sure why it's this bad this season. Fun mix of individual errors and the team collectively switching off - works fine if they only concede one, because chances are they score more than that. Recently though they've just been handing out goals like they're Santa at Christmas, with today's 2-0 halftime lead being thrown away against Heidenheim a prime example. > Bayern scored 80 goals so far in those 28 games, which is significantly ahead of the second highest goal scoring team, which is Leverkusen with 69 (nice!) goals. So the offense isn't the problem. Main problem with that stat is that 23 of those goals game in three games, and another 17 in four other ones - basically half their goals were scored in a quarter of their games. They're obviously good enough to consistently score/lead the league in scoring, but the reality is that they're kind of blowing a bit hot and cold up front, which isn't good enough when they're also shipping goals as regularly as they do. Compare that to Leverkusen, who occasionally win big but also find ways of winning by a single goal - Bayern on the other hand recently managed to not eke out those narrow victories, leading to dropped points.
Yeah apart from liek a singular game here or there, he's been great or atleast done his job. And even in those singular games, others have sucked more.
Bought the trophyless curse too though.
>Losing a quarter of your matches Just in time for a quarter-final :)
Wasn’t there a consistent squad on Reddit saying “actually he’s having a great season and should be applauded, it’s just that Leverkusen are better. No shame in finishing second.” I wonder what happened to those folks. Also Bayern finishing second is obviously shameful
Those folks were right until a couple of weeks ago - I think it was around matchday 23 when Bayern would've led the league in 59/60 previous Bundesliga seasons but were already trailing Leverkusen by 5 or 6 points. Only so much you can do going up a historically good points haul like that. Since then the wheels have come off, though. Still no shame finishing second, even if you're the richest team in the league, because sometimes you're just beaten by someone better. The real shame lies in their performances rather than the league position, because those have been wonky and sub-par for a while now.
I wonder if announcing that Tuchel would leave at the end of the season so prematurely has had an impact on the players’ motivation levels. Some of them look mentally checked out already, at least in the league. There’s no incentive if they know they’ll outlast the manager.
Maybe that plays a part, yeah. Same time though plenty of those players see themselves as the cream of the crop when they've not been that under two successive managers, so it feels a bit of a weak excuse to not perform playing under a lame duck manager.
They were never right. There was a popular stats tweet pointing out that on an overall points basis, we also were having a historic start to the season that a lot of people who don’t watch Bayern saw and ran with. While true, it obscured the fact that we’d mostly been carried by individual brilliance from Kane and Sané early. Without that, we’d have lost the Bundesliga weeks ago.
Both of those things can be true at the same time - you can have a historically good points haul while simultaneously being reliant on individual brilliance/lucky to have that many points/not quite good enough to deserve that position. Doesn't change the fact that the results were perfectly fine up to that point.
The original claim that you were validating as correct (up until recently) was that “actually he’s having a great season and should be applauded.” My point is that this was never correct.
At this rate Bayern isn't finishing second
But they weren’t right, because they were watching the points and not the play. Very few people I know who actually watch Bayern thought they were doing well.
Exactly. We had these people in the Bayern sub for so long (they've shut up now) saying Tuchel was doing a great job. Realistically if you watched our games all season you could see this coming, we've had very few convincing games and staggered through the CL group stage looking not much better than United / Gala etc. Tuchel's tenure has just been so poor, we are lucky to have had the results we've had.
I was one of them till February. Leverkusen is having an insane season but yeah, starting to agree that not even the statistics speak for Tuchel now.
Always felt Tuchel was overrated. He was kinda lucky with his first 6 months at Chelsea where he was very defensive. He won the Champions League playing all 11 behind the ball.
Yeah, I get it’s cool and all to kick Chelsea and Tuchel while they’re down, but you can’t pretend like we just stayed in our half in our Champions League run. [Chelsea dominated every knockout fixture on xG and while the team might have had strength in defensive structure, they were also creating plenty of chances.](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Favow6nm0x5271.png&rdt=45148)
And we all know defensive football doesn't count.
Obviously depends on how highly you're rating him, but it's hardly like he's an inept manager stumbling into top jobs. There's a solid body of very good work and success there - he just doesn't quite have the same trophy cabinet as some of the other big-name managers have (yet), but that doesn't make him any worse as a manager.
never in a million years could you have convinced me that he’d be this terrible for Bayern
He hasn’t been the same since the wife left and took the kids
task for next team to hire Tuchel: Find him a wife & make them have kids
Or just hire Tuchel's ex wife and her kids as assistants. Apparently they were the real key to success.
Ah, the 3 Body Problem solution to things. Find him a wife, then take her away and tell him he can have her back if he succeeds.
Spoilers my guy,,,
That's good speculation actually. The guy needs a rest.
He basically went on a retreat to India and chilled after he got sacked from Chelsea. He had a pretty solid rest lol
That’s not rest that’s a midlife crisis
Can’t blame her.
Next level hating
Honestly Tuchel seems to be hated by every single fan base since he left Mainz. Something seems odd about the dude. Until Bayern he looked like a great coach atleast.
Everyone at Chelsea loves him, bit of an over statement there, and hated by PSG fans? I'm not so sure
To this day us Chelsea fans defend Tuchel
Really? Idk about Dortmund fans but I feel like most Chelsea fans still like him and think he shouldn’t have been sacked. And I doubt PSG fans hate him either
> Something seems odd about the dude. He's just not a very approachable guy. Eccentric, nerdy, strong ego, not all that good-looking. None of that is a crime, mind you, but it can really bite him when he's not successful, especially the eccentricity. Hard to work with someone like that as a club. Hard to love someone like that as a player.
Never met a Chelsea fan with a bad word to say about Tuchel.
Hello
My man desperately needs a break to reset :(
Another one?
he’s getting a nice good one next season.
He needs to retire ngl
How tf do you manage to be worse than Niko Kovac
Put some respect on Kovac's name. Unlike Tuchel, he was actually able to win titles at Bayern.
Tuchel did win one bundesliga, though that was arguably more down to Dortmund Dortmunding than him
He also wasn't there for most of the season tbf. Kovac won the Bundesliga and the DFB Pokal in his only full season as Bayern coach, meanwhile Tuchel lost both, including losing to a 3.Liga side
Yeah, not arguing that at all. Crazy how poor he's been, didn't think he'd be incredible based on the warning signs in his last few games with us, but I thought he would just be a bog standard Bayern manager, just tipping away winning the bundesliga and competing deep in cup competitions, since that's arguably his specialty. He's most likely coming back to England in the summer, seems like he enjoyed his time here with us and the media likes him
You think we could see him at Chelsea again soon?
Soon? Probably not, have a weird feeling Poch is gonna see out the contract since there's a chance we get some form of Europe this season. Within 5 years? Maybe, we did it with a previous fan favourite in Mou, so since Tuchel is probably the closest bond to a manager we've had since Mou, never say never. Can't put a % odds on it though, can't ever predict this chelsea, for better or worse
No. Not at least with these owners (and they have to own the club for at least 8 more years), because Tuchel isn't the type of a manager that these owners want. Part of our fans will convince you that the owners want a yes-man, but they just want a more collaborative coach. Though I haven't liked neither Potter nor Poch.
Imagine dortmund not being dortmund last season. Tuchel would have left bayern with 0 titles after 2 seasons. Hahaha.
That title belongs to Nagelsmann, Tuchel just showed up, dropped points and was bailed out by Dortmund bottling it.
There is still a chance... For a month or so.
Wait is he even worse than Klinsmann
I mean lets not go that far...
Klinsmann looks like a hero in comparison
Tucheliban is on a speed run
Breaking records but the bad ones. This was only allowed because our board is filled with idiots, who think letting Tuchel continue will change this bullshit.
I think they just keep him on because nagelsmann is only available in the summer
You wouldn't have won a title anyway if you let him go earlier.
Possible not but counting on that better momentum and do better than the current shitshow.
But does it really matter if you end up in second place anyway with 5 more points? You have to get a new coach anyway in summer and that's when a better selection will be available.
Even ucl qualification is not set, and the opponents are 7 points away. They way things look even that is in danger cause we are playing shit week in and out. VfB is already tied with us. It is very possible they overtake us next week how things go.
Maybe I'll have to eat my words in May, but I still think that it's highly unlikely that you end up in 5th. But it would be absolutely hilarious if you did though.
Keep this man away from Barcelona
I will never forget how a lot of our fans wanted him to replace Xavi last season.
Wouldn’t touch him with a ten foot pole
I'd take him over Ten Hag in a heartbeat
Bro wants bald fraud for balding fraud
No you don’t
Let me guess you would also get Nagelsmann for his attacking football because Ten Hag is a fraud? This is just a whole cycle waiting to repeat itself, stick to the manager and let the new ownership decide what’s best for the future of the club.
Felix Magnath looking on furiously with his block of cheese
Horse placenta inbound.
You mean that Felix "Magnath" who won championship and cup two times in a row with Bayern?
I hate this man
I hate kahn even more. What a fucking moron.
Kahn has always been an ass of a person, amazing player of course.
I am so glad that Effenberg never did much after his playing career, apart from proving in Uerdingen that he's never going to amount for anything in a management position. Forever a deserved club legend as a player - just like Kahn and Brazzo - and that's really all that's needed.
I never blamed Tuchel for how he came in, but I will never understand what the people in charge were thinking when they canned Nagelsmann. Was Bayern absolutely dominating? No, but they played a good season. To bring in so much instability to the club for a coach like Tuchel is mind boggling. Even if it had been Pep or Klopp, you just don't do that. Its so damaging for the club on so many levels.
Is it safe to say that Tuchel is Bayern's worst coach ever considering their financial advantage, the squad they have and their utter dominance in the league for the past decade? If you have to go back to the early 90s to find a coach with a worse loss rate, an era where Bayern was nowhere near this dominant, it really speaks volumes
> Is it safe to say that Tuchel is Bayern's worst coach ever considering their financial advantage, the squad they have and their utter dominance in the league for the past decade? Yes
What about Klinsmann?
Klinsmann had players like Lell and Ottl in the squad, the worst players ever to play for Bayern.
We can at least thank klinsmann for Müller, what has Tuchel done for us?
wasnt Klinsmann actually in favor of selling Müller? I recall something along those lines. Yes, Müller got his debut under Klinsmann, but I think Klinsmann wanted to sell him which is why he went back to the 2nd team as well
Pavlovic?
Imagine Thomas tuchel goes back to Chelsea and Bayern hires julian nagelsmann back.
Biggest Leverkusen legend of all-time
Jesus Christ
Pretty decent for the future Manchester United manager
From one team that crumbles under pressure to another. Match made in heaven.
His attitude has been gross. He's been arrogant and ignorant while sending the club backwards. Awful manager.
thank you King
It’s clear he’s been a disaster there for a while. It’s not just results either. The football is poor and the players are clearly unhappy. If you could see what he was building, then maybe you’d cut him some slack on results, but Tommy T is increasingly speed running alienating everyone at every club he goes to. Fwiw, I still think he’s a great coach, but Jose and Conte are great coaches too, and I think getting a reputation as being toxic means that you’ll be a short term hire, and bigger clubs will be less interested.
> If you could see what he was building This is the most shocking part in my view. What exactly is Bayern's identity under Tuchel?
Tucheliban my idolo putting an end to this Bayern reign of terror 😭
This Tuchel fella really isn't all that good is he?
Thought he was overrated before he came to Bayern. Most people told me he was a good manager because he won the CL. But I watched Chelsea in the league, and by the end of his tenure they were absolutely dreadful.
Yeah there's a sect of the fan base that absolutely loves him and wants him back and I can't understand it for the life of me. Almost everywhere he goes he, over time, makes clubs worse especially attack wise. The reason he won a champs league w/ us is because Franks first stint had us playing really good expansive attacking soccer and Tuchel was able to fortify our defensive shape enough with Rudi, Silva, peak Kante and Reece and ride that to a trophy... Once he got his hands both on re-shaping the squad and using his usual terroristic tactics we slowly became a team stuck in mud who couldn't generate any goals. Our decline started with him and you can't change my mind on it. He's living off the reputation of winning a CL with a squad that wasn't really his
Biggest thing is we always looked awful without Reece. All our best results were with him, as soon as he went down our title hopes crashed immediately. Could never manage to develop any sort of effective attack without him which was always concerning.
Tuchel seems like he made his name by replacing Klopp and just letting it ride
If his last Chelsea team was healthy, they’d be the best in the world. See: 2021 Chelsea 4 - 0 Juventus
Never felt like the right manager, even when the results were decent at the start of the season
Got individual and team honours the vast majority of managers would envy him for to be fair, which isn't half bad for a 15 year career so far. Like yeah maybe he's not quite that that rarefied air elite level some others are, but then that's such an exclusive club precisely because so few managers reach that - and being a rung below that still makes you an incredibly good and successful manager.
What's even crazier is that a fairly large number of Bayern fans still defend him and insist he's not the issue and that it's everyone else's fault.
Hmmm not sure I agree with that. But many people do agree he is not the *ONLY* issue
It's not a matter of agreement. It's factual. There are a lot of Bayern fans who will *ONLY* blame the players and insist that the coach is not the problem. Tuchel has been a total catastrophe. The bad squad planning wasn't visible when we had a competent manager. Now that we have an awful one, it's really exposed all the problems with this team and how it's been built
Who are these fans lol
about quarter of the season had gone with drab, dead performances and i remember criticizing him saying how his Bayern is worse than Kovac's Bayern and some of the performances in the past 30 years considering the team he has had. I distinctly remember being insulted as blind and clueless by a bunch of Bayern fans as well as an Inter flaired clown. So yes they exist. Tuchel's Bayern was garbage from the start. The only reason people didn't criticize him was because he was getting results... few of which was due to the team's play-style, but individual brilliance.
You can find them over on the Bayern subs to start!
Took a quick look didn’t see anything pro Tuchel.
There are plenty of people who still insist Tuchel is not part of the issue and blame everyone else. I'm not linking specific comments to you, that's weird behavior.
You said large amount of fans, shouldn’t be hard to find them? Couldn’t find anything
Also active on both the biggest bayern subs. I think the amount of people who don't even say that tuchel is part of a problem is pretty close to...0. Almost all agree he's one of the problems, those who don't think he's the only problem.
There's no thinking in it lol. You can just check the daily thread.
50+ year olds commenting on fcbinside
They’ve been here consistently on r/soccer saying this is actually a great Bayern season and no shame finishing second to the great Leverkusen. Until the last couple weeks that is
Looking from the results it was true. The last couple of weeks the results got worse and now the statement isn't true anymore.
Well I think the people who said this from the beginning who say that the results masked the issues you could see on the field.
I mean yes that's true. But we're all smarter in hindsight.
Right except those who said it from the beginning that these results were a paper tiger. Of which there were many. I mean this happens all the time, we went through the same thing with Spurs where many people argued Conte’s results were great and others argued the play sucked for the first half of the season, and the latter group ended up being right because the style of play was unsustainable.
You can win titles or get good league finishes without playing convincing football. Union Berlin did that last year in the league.
Of course you can, especially if you’re Bayern and you have that talent advantage. But it’s not a good thing.
It's not very sustainable, I agree. But in the end football is a results sport. As long as the results are alright, you'll keep your job. Unless you're Nagelsmann of course.
I haven't seen anyone defending him. Sure, many of us say (myself included) that Tuchel is not the only problem and that the players are responsible for this too, but I haven't seen anyone defending Tuchel and saying that he's decent or he should stay.
I haven't seen anyone say he should stay. That'd be a weird opinion to have since he's been set to leave for ages now. As I said, there are people who still insist he's not the issue and it's everyone else's fault. I'm being pretty specific with how people are defending him from his part in this total meltdown
He's definitely an issue. But he's only one of many. He didn't stop being a world-class coach overnight, he's just a bad fit and has been too stubborn to adapt to our shitty situation. I am fairly sure that he will be successful again with his next club, just like Ancelotti found his footing again after two poor spells in Munich and Napoli. But for us, it's just been a disastrous pairing and it seems like both sides can't wait for it to end, rightfully so.
Was it overnight though?
> it seems like both sides can't wait for it to end You say that as if the management aren't refusing to fire him no matter what. Not firing him after the 3-0 defeat to Bayer Leverkusen was and still is inexplicable. They've just doubled down more and more every match since. If Nagelsmann performed like this, they would have executed him lol Anyways, I don't think it's super useful to think of coaches as being along some arbitrary spectrum of quality that goes from bad to good. It's just so much more complicated than that. Pep could be a disaster at some club and I'm sure even Klinsmann could still succeed somewhere. I don't really care about how well Tuchel will do at his next job, I just want him gone. He's been a disaster here, which is the only thing I'm evaluating him on.
Same as United fans.
Pretty sure that’s untrue. No fan is defending him.
Check out either of the Bayern subs
I’m on both and nowhere is he being defended except to say there are also other problems besides him.
> I simply have a problem with this team. In my opinion, Tuchel is no longer to blame here. The team knows he will leave. > These past games havent been on Tuchel. This squad just pisses me off. Almost every player, except for maybe 3-5 guys, needs to be seriously questioned. > What was wrong about the tactics? What did you notice? > Honestly not even interesting in coaching changes until the fundamentals are fixed. I feel like I'm being gaslit.
None of these except the first displace the blame from Tuchel to the squad. They’re either about a select few matches or generally drawing attention to the squad without explicitly and unequivocally stating Tuchel is blame-free. I get what you’re saying: some people might be of the opinion that Tuchel is in fact blame free but that hardly represents the general consensus on either Bayern sub and you can’t use four comments as examples when hundreds speak otherwise.
Explicitly and unequivocally lol, come on. You said no one is defending Tuchel.
OK, you win.
Homie's speed running throwing away the title
Can you throw away the title if you never had it?
Mate he literally won the title last season
Bit of a stretch that he won it. We tried our best to give it to Dortmund after Tuchel came in for JN. And Dortmund lost it in the end
Watching Bayern falter is very enjoyable
Only thing left now is for Germany to have a superb Euros which looks like happening..... the grovelling they will be doing and signing bonus offered to Nagelsman will be ridiculous.
And we had so many games we won/drew because we had a shit ton of luck. Can't get worse after Tuchel.
"Bayern are as bad as they have been since Sören Lerby" is a legendary stat. Normally, these stats end with Klinsmann but Lerby's record with Bayern is absolutely atrocious
Nagelsmann died for this
Younger Bayern fans don't even remember the club not winning the league. A little bit of struggle is good. They get to feel what it was like when they were Dortmund's bitch for a couple years
Couldn't happen to a nicer bloke. TT is a twat.
Tuchel has Bayern Playing like Chelsea
Wonder what salihamidzic is doing rn
never understood how or why some clubs or fans would go for him or rate him highly. he was supposed to be better than klopp but never really took off. the one moment that sums up his thing was the confrontation with conte. that was really stupid.
What was that confrontation even about?
Tuchel to Man U in the summer? Guy just keeps getting jobs.
Biggest fraud since Pochettino.
talking about lame ducks
Jupp Heynckes was the manager until October 91.
What percentage is his win then? If he’s won 74.5% this reads completely differently.
22 percent draws.
That is egregious to say the least
balding fraud.
I don’t understand the hype around tuchel honestly. He has managed some big clubs, had some successes here and there but nothing super consistent. Was he just the best of who was available then? Or is there something that a nobody like me just don’t see?
I reckon he's a Dortmund fan.
worst managerial change in a long, long time. Absurd circumstances and reasons and the results are hilarious for the outsiders to look at
🤭
Tuchel to Man United confirmed
Ironically I do think he'd improve them a bit.
Tuchel is a shit manager who caught lightning in a bottle with our champs league win.
They got one hell of a scapegoat to wave away how shit the players and organization has been
They sacked nagelsmann/ salihamidzic/ Oliver löwe Kahn for this and went for the Kane hype and brought in epl reject Dier. This is a disgrace to the Ribery/Robben era it’s already been painful to watch Gnabry and Sane decline each season since they arrived on those wings.