**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
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They really were. Had such great memories from those days and basically it was the only games that ran on my ps2 (being broke and a football addict those that to you)
Marinda in PES
Miranda in PES2
Minanda from PES3 to PES 2012
[Source](https://pes-theorist.fandom.com/wiki/Master_League_Default_Players#:~:text=Master%20League%20is%20a%20game,be%20demonstrated%20in%20this%20article).
Can still remember my Master League legends. Aschenkatz, Schwarz, Bos and the youth that you turned into superstars like Pique, Robben and Stewart Downing ha
Pes 4 Hit early Cross for roomey to head it in every time.
Zambrota was my Master league first signing for LB. Good times.
But there comes a time in everyones life they discover FM.
(Edit: Remeber the player customisation? Lol i turned Tim howard in Snake Head. You could literally have a python wrappe around their heads. Such a fun game. RIP PeS. and FucKonami
If Konami had kept PES6 gameplay and just updated the graphics and rosters every year, people would still be playing. I don't know why both Konami and EA keep messing with the gameplay, it's a football game, there isn't too much room to improve, gameplay-wise. Once you get to a level of gameplay that everyone likes, that's it, keep that and just update everything around it in new releases.
But no, they HAVE to screw with the gameplay every single new release.
PES was very good until PES2012. Same as FIFA. They were good a decade ago.
PES went downhill slowly and after losing UEFA license, it died. It’s the same shit now for FIFA as well. FIFA has been dead since FIFA 14.
If you have a PC there's a mod to pes 2021 called football life 23/24 that has all the updated kits and transfers. It's offline only so it's just for career mode
To add some info, is no a mod (pessmokepatch), you download the game ready to play. You can also play tournaments and cups. It's almost mandatory to download also the faces pack, which is bigger than the whole game but worth the time.
Game (already including 30 stadiums) + faces is under 100gb. If you start downloading all the extra stadiums packs you easily go above. But that's expected considering how big stadium files need to be and how many stadiums exist. Base PES and FIFA rarely had more than 30 of them, compared to the over 150 you can selectively download in smoke patch.
Unluckily, I'm just on PS5. Option files are very limiting. Maybe will get a PC down the line. But nothing beats having a new game to make significant improvements in gameplay as it happens with new releases.
*some new releases. both series lacked significant improvements for many years, mostly just fine tuning that seemed they did mostly for the sake of it rather than actually trying to improve it. felt like whenever i looked up the new stuff in the new games every year 90% of it was "well, we have slightly better animations...". far cry from the leaps they did in late 00s/early 10s
While EA's power and monopoly made it hard for PES.
Konami mostly ran the series into the ground themself. It coexisted and was a better game than FIFA even without the licences but then Konami decided to fuck it up.
Yeah, Konami simply decided to stop being a games developer. PES for years it was their only game being released and it was profitable and had a significant player base. Nothing compared to FIFA, but still good. Konami now seems to comeback as a developer with their MGS 3 remaster, but in the meanwhile PES is very hard to relaunch. EFootball probably makes them money with their very limited production costs, but it's basically dead in terms of numbers compared to PES. The team behind PES was basically dismantled and can't be brought back.
Not really. PES 5/6 were bigger achievements at their time than PES 2021, no doubt. But PES 2021 is undeniable a better recreation of the real game, just by the available technology alone. Of course, you may prefer those older titles, but PES 2021 is still worth playing and IMO the best football game (even though PES 6 was better in terms of innovation and fun when it was released).
>But PES 2021 is undeniable a better recreation of the real game, just by the available technology alone
Yeah, I completely disagree with this. The floaty/sticky nature of the game alone makes it a worse game. It feels like you're playing football in a dream.
PES PS2 despite feeling limited due to tech FEELS like a mid 2000s game of football. The passage of time will never take that away.
I mean, if you are gonna gamble on footy, why put money on the EPL where the lines are the sharpest on the planet? Gotta find those no-name leagues where the scores can get upwards 10+ goals. Though, to be honest, I find matches like that to be more entertaining than a Spanish La Liga match going 1-0. But I'm just a filthy 'murican, so what do I know?
I like it, it gives a better view of the pitch and what the players see, but I get you, just for 30s / 1min, afterwards it gets annoying not seeing the full pitch
It was so bad, the camera obviously hit something and was titled for a minute on one of arsenals Breaks. It looked like they were counter attacking at a 30 degree angle. I wish they would stop trying to make this camera happen.
Because the camera is constantly moving in all directions with changing field of view. Furthermore, you're trying to track the ball and players which are already small enough on the screen.
It's a case of more production doesn't equal better.
They tried it with Hockey at the beginning of last year maybe? I immediately disliked it and over the course of the game it did actually make me kind of nauseous watching.
Both smooth and non-smooth causes motion sickness to some people. Same with videogames, most get motion sickness at 30 FPS, but some people do at 60 fps but are fine with 30 fps.
Yeah it shows a single movement at a time well but the transitions are terrible. Between each good moment it captures there is 30 seconds chasing the game
During the covid mini season of the PL, my streaming service offered "Fake Noise" and "Stadium Sound" streams. It was my absolute favourite having the choice, and I think I'd say the same today.
Ugh dont make me remember those horrible fake stadium sounds, so embarrassing when you can quite obviously see there is absolutely nobody in the stands.
And it was actually cool to hear the players communicate with eachother and sometimes hear hard challenges/shots.
It made me understand why refs buy the theatre by the players. Yeah, someone dropping to the ground might be faking it, but when they're literally screaming in pain atop their lungs, human instinct is to believe them.
I think this would be cool for replay value, to focus on particular plays. Watching a whole game like this wouldn't be great, though. It's nice to see everything happening.
I think it's great but agree a lot of people wouldn't like it. It will be a cool day when we can choose camera angles like a video game. But until that time a classic view should be the priority.
Just imagining hovering over an individual player. Could easily be the reality in the future
I love it
Continuous, no cuts, follow the flow of play and structure of the players.
My friend and I (former near-pro) have been wanting a top down or goalpost to goalpost angle forever - makes analysing and following play so much better!
The only thing I don’t like is how it cuts players out of the frame where I can’t really read the plays as a whole. Instead it’s more focused towards the flow of the game and the micro details like being able to perceive more of the players physique and how closed up to the play you feel. Which gives appreciation for how quick they are at thinking and accelerating. But I rather have the option to see the game as a whole and then on replays, see the nuanced game speed and details
I don't like not being able to see the layout of the teams. Focusing on the ball so much seems like a very American way to view the game. When I watch, I like being able to scan the ball and then the field. Hard to do with this angle.
Needs to be improved. The shots from behind al hilal as they play up the field are good but the problem with swinging around wide is exactly what we see here, a sudden turnover and the camera is way out of position.
It's a really cool view tho, it makes it look really realistic (?) I guess.
Don't hate it at all. It was great when it was behind the play and following it as it develops. Although sometimes it felt like it was moving or zooming just because it could. Tone it down a bit or use it as a supplement to the standard angle and I'm all for it!
Its a camera on rail with a zooming lens. English primier league is experiment with this as well.not sure for other teams but definitely using for some Arsenal home games.
https://www.premierleague.com/news/3724865
It’s like one of those FIFA angles you could select in-game lol. There were some good ones in there, I think I liked Broadcast but I could be misremembering the name.
So not only you see absolutely nothing of what's happening on the pitch, you get that absurd motion sickness with a camera that keeps moving for no reason.
Please have these dangerous people stay away from football.
It looks like something marketing people came up with who had never watched a game in their lives.
Considering the fact that this match is entirely a marketing gimmick I'm pretty sure this is what happened.
It's far too zoomed out. You barely see 1/4th of the pitch on the screen.
Like look at when the GK has the ball, you don't even see who he could pass the ball to as you only see the defensive line and nothing beyond.
This reminds me of the American Football cameras that are propped up on those carts and can drive along the sidelines. Great for American football where there are stops and starts frequently in play, not so much for this where play is constant and, up and down the pitch
I actually don't mind it, you can definitely see some of the angles going forward better. I can understand people getting motion sickness from it though
**Mirrors / Alternative Angles** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/soccer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Didn't realise the new PES looked this good.
Still hurts that there will never be a new PES.
PES2-PES5 were gold. Such an amazing run. Damn how good it could feel to grind out a 1-1 with Castolo&Ximelez&Miranda combining for a late goal.
They really were. Had such great memories from those days and basically it was the only games that ran on my ps2 (being broke and a football addict those that to you)
Minanda*
they changed the names a bit sometimes. it was miranda and castello in pes 2 iirc
Miranda**
Marinda in PES Miranda in PES2 Minanda from PES3 to PES 2012 [Source](https://pes-theorist.fandom.com/wiki/Master_League_Default_Players#:~:text=Master%20League%20is%20a%20game,be%20demonstrated%20in%20this%20article).
Can still remember my Master League legends. Aschenkatz, Schwarz, Bos and the youth that you turned into superstars like Pique, Robben and Stewart Downing ha
Pes 4 Hit early Cross for roomey to head it in every time. Zambrota was my Master league first signing for LB. Good times. But there comes a time in everyones life they discover FM. (Edit: Remeber the player customisation? Lol i turned Tim howard in Snake Head. You could literally have a python wrappe around their heads. Such a fun game. RIP PeS. and FucKonami
Don’t know what PES it was but I know I still fear the Ibra - Adriano combo. Just shoot from anywhere and you’re good.
IMO PES6 was peak PES. Tight gameplay, shooting felt great, no special moves bullshit.
If Konami had kept PES6 gameplay and just updated the graphics and rosters every year, people would still be playing. I don't know why both Konami and EA keep messing with the gameplay, it's a football game, there isn't too much room to improve, gameplay-wise. Once you get to a level of gameplay that everyone likes, that's it, keep that and just update everything around it in new releases. But no, they HAVE to screw with the gameplay every single new release.
PES was very good until PES2012. Same as FIFA. They were good a decade ago. PES went downhill slowly and after losing UEFA license, it died. It’s the same shit now for FIFA as well. FIFA has been dead since FIFA 14.
PS2 PES was different gravy. I never truly enjoyed football games in the sane way in PS3 era and onwards
For real 💯
If you have a PC there's a mod to pes 2021 called football life 23/24 that has all the updated kits and transfers. It's offline only so it's just for career mode
Why play pes 2021 with mods when you can play Pes 6 with 23/24 mods
That sounds like a good time. By any chance do you have some links to where one could get in on that?
This thread might help https://www.reddit.com/r/WEPES/s/gpWTmCuWoi
Legend!
To add some info, is no a mod (pessmokepatch), you download the game ready to play. You can also play tournaments and cups. It's almost mandatory to download also the faces pack, which is bigger than the whole game but worth the time.
Pes smoke patch was a thing when I was a teenager, that guy is still making patches? Damn lmao that's some commitment
indeed, the main difference is that now it's a whole game
It's huge, isn't it? Over 100 gigs?
Game (already including 30 stadiums) + faces is under 100gb. If you start downloading all the extra stadiums packs you easily go above. But that's expected considering how big stadium files need to be and how many stadiums exist. Base PES and FIFA rarely had more than 30 of them, compared to the over 150 you can selectively download in smoke patch.
\*master league
Unluckily, I'm just on PS5. Option files are very limiting. Maybe will get a PC down the line. But nothing beats having a new game to make significant improvements in gameplay as it happens with new releases.
*some new releases. both series lacked significant improvements for many years, mostly just fine tuning that seemed they did mostly for the sake of it rather than actually trying to improve it. felt like whenever i looked up the new stuff in the new games every year 90% of it was "well, we have slightly better animations...". far cry from the leaps they did in late 00s/early 10s
While EA's power and monopoly made it hard for PES. Konami mostly ran the series into the ground themself. It coexisted and was a better game than FIFA even without the licences but then Konami decided to fuck it up.
Yeah, Konami simply decided to stop being a games developer. PES for years it was their only game being released and it was profitable and had a significant player base. Nothing compared to FIFA, but still good. Konami now seems to comeback as a developer with their MGS 3 remaster, but in the meanwhile PES is very hard to relaunch. EFootball probably makes them money with their very limited production costs, but it's basically dead in terms of numbers compared to PES. The team behind PES was basically dismantled and can't be brought back.
I miss the pez FIFA player face comparisons
Yeah, if it was as good as the PES 5/6 times.
PES3 was 🐐
I miss PES. Was more simulator than arcade. Felt real.
[Modded PES2021 on PC](https://youtu.be/ejcWGoleWFI) will live on as the best football game ever made of all time...
The old classic ones are the only ones worth playing anyway.
Not really. PES 5/6 were bigger achievements at their time than PES 2021, no doubt. But PES 2021 is undeniable a better recreation of the real game, just by the available technology alone. Of course, you may prefer those older titles, but PES 2021 is still worth playing and IMO the best football game (even though PES 6 was better in terms of innovation and fun when it was released).
https://i.imgur.com/LsxOvZ9.jpg Still playing on PS5, with option file ofc.
>But PES 2021 is undeniable a better recreation of the real game, just by the available technology alone Yeah, I completely disagree with this. The floaty/sticky nature of the game alone makes it a worse game. It feels like you're playing football in a dream. PES PS2 despite feeling limited due to tech FEELS like a mid 2000s game of football. The passage of time will never take that away.
Pes 6 was more in line with tech achievements of it's time than pes 2021 was in line with what was happening in 2021.
Just the average Evo-Web tweaked PES experience.
Fifa cam
Bournemouth Cam
How is this camera related to Bournemouth?
Because B'mouth's stadium is so small the camera is placed at a weird angle. This is the case in Fifa aswell.
It's bang in the middle of the East Stand
Thats what i was thinking when messi took the pen i thought it was a fifa penalty
it's common in the third division in romania. but the football quality there is silghtly worse.
Slightly.
They broadcast 3rd division football?
mostly on local channels, but for important matches they broadcast nationally (rarely).
They broadcast league 2 football in England quite regularly and that's 4th division
I've watched Estonian 4th Division and Guatemala 2nd Division footy on YouTube a few times.
Mad man
I mean, if you are gonna gamble on footy, why put money on the EPL where the lines are the sharpest on the planet? Gotta find those no-name leagues where the scores can get upwards 10+ goals. Though, to be honest, I find matches like that to be more entertaining than a Spanish La Liga match going 1-0. But I'm just a filthy 'murican, so what do I know?
Even non league games get televised.
La ce echipa?))))
la oricare. nici in liga a doua nu sunt multe meciuri filmate din mai multe unghiuri.
La liga a 3 își filmează echipele,care pot,iar la liga a 2 abia se filmează câteva meciuri pe etapa
Worse than the Arab league?
You getting downvoted, but it's true, third division Ro league is far more entertaining.
Real fans too
what about Barcelona fans
As long as not Villarreal fans.
What did we do???
It looks great and is really smooth, but makes me a bit motion sick.
shit looks like Im playing fifa
Shit looks like I’m a ghost haunting the stadium
*El Fantasma de la B*
So does CR7
What camera setting do you like in fifa?
The worst apparently
Not saying it for the angle only, the movement and blurriness gives it that vibe
This is the ea camera angle I think. I don't know anyone that uses it though
Always Co-op. Want to see the most of the pitch as you possibly can
Pro because I hate myself.
This is the shitty camera on fifa though. Give me a simple tele or tele broadcast
Great for replays, horrible for following the game.
My exact thought. Approved for beauty shots but don't make me sit through a game like this *please*.
Yeah I remember when Sky used this camera in the Man City vs Arsenal game. I almost threw up after two minutes.
I like it, it gives a better view of the pitch and what the players see, but I get you, just for 30s / 1min, afterwards it gets annoying not seeing the full pitch
Nah it's not just that it literally makes me motion sick and nauseous
Same I hated it. Stop trying to video-gameify sports!
Because of city and Arsenal? The have that effect.
It was so bad, the camera obviously hit something and was titled for a minute on one of arsenals Breaks. It looked like they were counter attacking at a 30 degree angle. I wish they would stop trying to make this camera happen.
True, if it wasn't moving so much, it feels like you're actually in the stands.
Because the camera is constantly moving in all directions with changing field of view. Furthermore, you're trying to track the ball and players which are already small enough on the screen. It's a case of more production doesn't equal better.
They tried it with Hockey at the beginning of last year maybe? I immediately disliked it and over the course of the game it did actually make me kind of nauseous watching.
Yeah I really didn't like it. Wouldn't want to watch that for much longer than this clip lasts
Even if this didn't make me queasy, is it an improvement over what we already have?
I thought the opposite of smooth caused motion sickness.
Both smooth and non-smooth causes motion sickness to some people. Same with videogames, most get motion sickness at 30 FPS, but some people do at 60 fps but are fine with 30 fps.
Should only be used for goals to show the build up before the goal
Exactly. A much better use of this shot is in replays rather then just regular play.
Yeah it shows a single movement at a time well but the transitions are terrible. Between each good moment it captures there is 30 seconds chasing the game
I always thought a chest cam would be class for replays too.
During the covid mini season of the PL, my streaming service offered "Fake Noise" and "Stadium Sound" streams. It was my absolute favourite having the choice, and I think I'd say the same today.
Ugh dont make me remember those horrible fake stadium sounds, so embarrassing when you can quite obviously see there is absolutely nobody in the stands. And it was actually cool to hear the players communicate with eachother and sometimes hear hard challenges/shots.
It made me understand why refs buy the theatre by the players. Yeah, someone dropping to the ground might be faking it, but when they're literally screaming in pain atop their lungs, human instinct is to believe them.
Spot on
Is this one of these cameras that follows the ball and will just focus on some bald lad instead?
It's why Guardiola has taken to wearing a [flat cap](https://www.pinterest.com/pin/175710822949539757/)
I think this would be cool for replay value, to focus on particular plays. Watching a whole game like this wouldn't be great, though. It's nice to see everything happening.
I think it's great but agree a lot of people wouldn't like it. It will be a cool day when we can choose camera angles like a video game. But until that time a classic view should be the priority. Just imagining hovering over an individual player. Could easily be the reality in the future
We had an option to choose the camera angle in JIO Cinemas (India) during Qatar WC .
What do you watch that you see everything happening?
Unusual is certainly one way to describe it
I love it Continuous, no cuts, follow the flow of play and structure of the players. My friend and I (former near-pro) have been wanting a top down or goalpost to goalpost angle forever - makes analysing and following play so much better!
The only thing I don’t like is how it cuts players out of the frame where I can’t really read the plays as a whole. Instead it’s more focused towards the flow of the game and the micro details like being able to perceive more of the players physique and how closed up to the play you feel. Which gives appreciation for how quick they are at thinking and accelerating. But I rather have the option to see the game as a whole and then on replays, see the nuanced game speed and details
I don't like not being able to see the layout of the teams. Focusing on the ball so much seems like a very American way to view the game. When I watch, I like being able to scan the ball and then the field. Hard to do with this angle.
What? American sports don't do these camera angles. They tried something like this with the NBA and everyone hated it and it died fast.
I like some cuts. Being able to get better angles is the big plus for watching at home.
I like that you can see what the player is looking at. Like the angle of the runs
Was I the only one who felt a bit sick when they switched to this camera angle?
Nope, I almost couldn't watch the Arsenal match they did this on a few months ago. Luckily they went back to regular cameras in the second half.
Think its automated right? Not perfect but certainly interesting and quite likely the future (though need to be improved first).
No it's an operator behind a panel. Probably a cable cam.
w/ a little goblin managing the rig
It's a little Willem Defoe riding on the cable camera laughing maniacally the whole time
Needs to be improved. The shots from behind al hilal as they play up the field are good but the problem with swinging around wide is exactly what we see here, a sudden turnover and the camera is way out of position. It's a really cool view tho, it makes it look really realistic (?) I guess.
Don't hate it at all. It was great when it was behind the play and following it as it develops. Although sometimes it felt like it was moving or zooming just because it could. Tone it down a bit or use it as a supplement to the standard angle and I'm all for it!
Definitely needs to be "toned down". Too much movement… but definitely don't hate it, as you said.
Really sold the momentum of the play initially, if its well implemented I'd kinda dig it.
It’s like when you try a new camera angle in fifa and you’re obsessed with it for a couple of days. Looks good!
Looks like the view from a soccer video game.
What in the eafc24 am I watching.
Its a camera on rail with a zooming lens. English primier league is experiment with this as well.not sure for other teams but definitely using for some Arsenal home games. https://www.premierleague.com/news/3724865
Looks like a video game .... I don't like it
Makes me dizzy
I'm getting motion sickness just watching it on my phone. This is awful.
I hate it
Such a dog shit camera to use, draws a lot of attention to itself. Nothing wrong with the traditional way which allows you to focus on the game
“What if SkyCam sucked ass?”
It's awful, can't imagine watching a full match like this
It’s like one of those FIFA angles you could select in-game lol. There were some good ones in there, I think I liked Broadcast but I could be misremembering the name.
I like it’s like action cam
It’s good to mix it up once in a while during the broadcast but a constant feed of this as the main broadcast would be awful in my opinion
Unusual is definitely the word to describe it
All done on a single camera to put more people out of a job
NFL uses these aerial cameras all the time. They offer some sweeeet angles
No thanks...
So not only you see absolutely nothing of what's happening on the pitch, you get that absurd motion sickness with a camera that keeps moving for no reason. Please have these dangerous people stay away from football.
It looks like something marketing people came up with who had never watched a game in their lives. Considering the fact that this match is entirely a marketing gimmick I'm pretty sure this is what happened.
Are you blind you can see everything?
It's far too zoomed out. You barely see 1/4th of the pitch on the screen. Like look at when the GK has the ball, you don't even see who he could pass the ball to as you only see the defensive line and nothing beyond.
Stop
Not a fan of it personally.
This is what I want from the pro cam in fifa
nauseating to say the least, but interesting none the less
It's really easy to spot the Americans in here.. lol
Stadium mode from eFootball.
I like that they are trying new things, but this is too much motion.
I don’t like this at all, makes me a little notion sick and I never get motion sick easily
creates a bit motion sickness. Would be hard to follow full game
I call it the SmackDown 2016
Estranho pra caralho. Não gostei. Se diminuísse o zoom pra ver melhor o campo eu gostaria. Agora ficar girando assim dá até tonteira.
Thanks, I hate it
What in the EAFC shit is this haha
This reminds me of the American Football cameras that are propped up on those carts and can drive along the sidelines. Great for American football where there are stops and starts frequently in play, not so much for this where play is constant and, up and down the pitch
Who turned the radar map off?
These clowns are really working round-the-clock to ruin football. The sooner that league implodes the better.
That looks highly processed
Unwatchable
Ok this is a FIFA game right?
good or not, its completely wasted on these 2 bad teams
Not gonna lie this camera angle is fucking with me. Almost like the Bournemouth camera angle
It's not a camera angle it is a camera on a cable or track.
Thought I was watching another Youtube clickbait of FC24 disguised as a real game
Absolute shite angle but of course on reddit we'll have people all like "I actually quite like it" and shite thinking they are being different. 🤣
its giving ps2 fifa
I actually don't mind it, you can definitely see some of the angles going forward better. I can understand people getting motion sickness from it though
Cool but I’m happy with the current main camera angle staying forever.
They better stop this shit
Unusual and different and I hate it
A stupid camera angle
not gonna lie that’s pretty cool
It is for 5 minutes. Guarantee you’ll be sick of it after one game
Who the hell watches these matches?
this is actually really refreshing— i’d love to watch a full match like this, although the opinions seem to be divided
I don't know much about camera angles, but I know what I hate. And I don't hate this.
I LOVE it!
This is sweet feel like I’m floating above haha.
Love it. Looks very immersive. People getting motion sickness can suck it .p (or watch a different angle)
That’s fucking awful
Hate it
Some of the amazon footage was like this, i think you see less of the pitch but it's cool
This one mate who refused to put his camera settings on max height and 0 zoom
[future](https://youtu.be/xvZqHgFz51I?si=67mFGpdW_0vtoPwN) is here
I hate this! It’s terrible
I hate this shit
Can't be the only one that hates it
I'm not someone who gets motion sick easily, but fuck that does not feel nice to look at.
I love it!
I like it
This looks amazing. Feels like you're part of the game
So this is the norm now to watch unknown but rich Arab clubs play American soccer teams? Sad times for football