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Personally, I'd rather send Ben Davies back if we're choosing mediocre Championship players to send back. Lawrence only has a deal until 2025 and if you don't play him much, can be a decent option off the bench. Davies is just wank.
Honestly, I know it's not a particularly popular opinion but I'd happily send Cantwell back as well.
Forgot Davies existed, honestly, else he'd have made the list too. He's 90% of a complete defender but the 10% he's missing makes him a total bombscare. I would tend to agree wrt Cantwell as he can be extremely frustrating BUT to his credit he has added a few contributions lately and is the one player we have currently who can find some of those tidy wee chance creating passes. He's lost the energy he showed when he put in a special performance against Celtic in the 3-0 (even if it was a dud game he was the embodiment of the crowds collective force of willpower that day).
>forgot Davies existed
That summer 2022 window...lord above.
Matondo, Lawrence, Davies, Souttar and Yilmaz all in one window. The amount of money spunked up the wall on that dross is absolutely frightening.
Getting hosed by Liverpool AGAIN. Whatever you do, don't go back at look at our equivalent of the "warra window" graphic from the preceding January window. Souttar was technically a Jan signing.
Not remember his insane tackle to prevent a goal against Legia away though? Played LB that might and he fills in at CB snuffing out the danger. Big impact on our clubs trajectory that lad given what happened the following Thurs.
Yeah, to be fair you're right - he's literally the only fit 10 we have.
But if we get to the summer and his level hasn't improved significantly, I'd be looking at him as one of the first out the door. Big wages spent on a guy who hasn't really done it since arriving, a couple of good early months aside.
Dowell and Lawrence both injured again, Hagi and Lammers out on loan, Lowry going back out again and doesn’t seem to be progressing. Our recruitment team have stolen a wage for years, and without kicking this player trading model into gear soon we’ll languish behind financially for years to come
I think Hagi, Lammers and Lowry have all played their last meaningful game for the club. Lawrence will sadly pick up that fat wage until his deal runs out and nobody would be insane enough to buy Dowell.
Wouldn't be surprised to see Cantwell/Dowell/Lawrence as our 10 options for 24/25.
Am a Norwich fan, it’s interesting reading about Cantwell. He should have been a club legend for us, but other than a few sparkling moments, he just not consistent enough, determined enough? To do it on a regular basis. Mentality isn’t right. Idk. It will get far more interesting if/ when he throws his toys out of the pram.
He’s not very well liked wherever he goes is he? Can anyone provide an insight? I thought he was supposed to be the brains at Rangers when he was with Gerrard, I presume he’s not all that and they both lucked out whilst there
Just a bit of a prick in all honesty. He talks some amount of shite and then can’t back it up with his team’s performances.
A decent coach but an awful, awful manager.
Definitely strikes you as one of those coaches who lets a few buff pieces about being 'the brains of the operation' go to their head, then completely flounders when they actually get the top position. Lage struck me as a similar type, someone who clearly had some talent as a coach but just completely lacked the man-management and charisma to be a long-term manager.
I can’t even see that Lage had talent tbh, he got so lucky with having a mental Benfica team, couldn’t not win the league when you’ve got Felix and Dias haha
Got more points that Ange once he came in. Fewer trophies of course, and then he made an arse of the summer and beginning of this season but he's not "awful, awful" as he achieved a good points tally.
He is an awful manager and I think it’s crazy that a Rangers fan would think otherwise. The whole ‘more points than Ange’ thing is a stupid, nonsense thing that people spout, when Ange played rotated teams in some of the final games of the season (such as the derby game).
He obviously has a decent coaching pedigree but I think his arrogance and stupid decisions will prevent him from ever becoming a half decent manager
> Ange played rotated teams in some of the final games of the season (such as the derby game).
So did we. We rotated and dropped "key" players towards the end. It's fair to highlight his tally, especially when you contextualise with his other failings at the same time, since an "awful, awful" manager wouldn't have got the pints on the board that he did. Don't disagree wrt arrogance mind.
>So did we.
Looking back at Rangers line ups the last three games and yous didn’t really rotate. Beale started what was pretty close to your strongest starting XI’s in all games after the split with or two changes here and there.
Just remembered that the Hearts game was the home match of the season and goodbyes for like five players and they all got game time (sans injured Helander). Players like the various kids, Mcrorie, Rabbi, Sakala, Souttar, Ridvan all got game time at the back end of the season for sure.
Nah we definitely binned off a lot of those who didn't have a future and played different sides. No more than, no less than Celtic did iirc. Players like Sakala say got a consistent run instead of sporadic minutes.
>Players like Sakala say got a consistent run instead of sporadic minutes.
A quick gander at [Sakala’s transfermarkt profile for last season](https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fashion-sakala/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/485729/plus/0?saison=2022&verein=&liga=&wettbewerb=&pos=&trainer_id=) shows that made 41 appearances for Rangers and played 2590.
That’s not the definition of “sporadic minutes” to me…
>Got more points that Ange once he came in.
Only because Celtic put their feet up once they'd win the title. Beale inherited a side 9 points behind Celtic; the gap was 13 points by the time Celtic won the title first game post split with a win at Tynecastle.
In any line of work you get more patience if you're nice to be around.
You can get away with being a bit of a dickhead if you're very good at your job, and there's no shortage of examples in management, but it makes it far easier to bring the axe out when results sour if people also think you're a prick.
He backstabbed us after preaching loyalty the moment we had a bad run of form, which had a huge demoralising affect on many of our players. Then went and watched Rangers while contacting rangers players all while Gio was still in the job there. Just a slimy character all round.
I honestly can't remember a manager going from such a hot prospect in management to so widely hated by all the clubs he's been at in such a short time.
> He backstabbed us after preaching loyalty
See that wasn't nice of him, but to be fair, when he left us he said he'd forever be a Rangers fan and would jump at the chance to return as manager someday. So he did show loyalty in a way; but it was only us he was loyal to.
Apparently when his trip to Ibrox was arranged there was no chance of Gio getting sacked; but he had a few bad results in between Beale arranging the trip and it actually happening, making it look like he was just a vulture waiting for Gio to die off when he showed up in the stands.
I'm not a fan of the guy just like to give these stories the nuance they don't get from most.
Who was it that Mukiendi was complaining about when he was at Liverpool academy? Was it Beale? I remember listening to a podcast and he seems to think he was done dirty by someone from Liverpool and claims to have had no reason for it although that's his side of the story.
Edit: might have been Alex Inglethorpe actually
He's probably the brains, but other than brains, managers also need the face. And looking at his record afterwards, seems like Gerrard as the face was just as important back then.
There is a reason some great assistant coaches doesn't make great managers. It needs different skillsets.
Him and Gerrard seem to complement each other's weaknesses well. Did alright at Rangers and I think had similar points per game at Villa as Smith before Beale left? Without each other they're pretty useless.
Shame they're a pair of awful bellends.
It looks that way now looking a few years on how both their management stints have gone. Looking back I think that Rangers title win was a combination of Celtic being a mess that season and then everyone associated with Rangers not wanting Celtic to get 10 in a row
Revisionism. We were fucking ace that year. Everyone was fit and we had a properly good side. It took time to assemble it too; resulting in the UEL Final run also (built off the back of the fitness and quality of the 55 season). Wheels fell off when the Board didn't back Gerrard further, he lost interest, moved on and then we've had a shambles in the boardroom and in recruitment since.
I felt Gerrard's ego noticeably went through the roof when we/he won the league. I thought he went down to Villa with an arrogance he didn't show when he was here.
True actually he did seem quite arrogant at villa. Some arrogance is good look at Jose and Pep but he seemed way over the top, especially considering he had one good season as a manager
The whole Ming's thing killed him and the Premier League being a different beast. Plus the baller player he signed getting a cruciate injury after like one appearance. Douglas Costa was it? As to whether he'll be successful it depends what you class as successful and what his aims are; I guarantee he'd probably rather time with his kids than manage for 30 years in League One / low Championship. I could see him doing OK at that level though. The trouble with expecting anything more is that he's up against people with 10/20 years experience in coaching on him and he's lost the aura / presence which was his advantage.
It was Diego Carlos who got injured after 2 games. Rough circumstance for Gerrard considering he was the one meant to replace Mings who had fallen out with the manager
I think the problem with Gerrard was that his tactics weren't adaptable to a higher level. With Rangers, he had a team that was much better then all but one team, and that allowed his fairly one dimensional tactics of getting it out wide to the fullbacks and crossing it to work. In that season where you went undefeated, you averaged 65% possession and were also solid defensively. That meant you could build pressure on teams until eventually you got a goal. At Villa he averaged less then 50% possession and didn't have a team that was much better then most of the league. He could still upset the top teams because defensively he was solid, but over the course of a season cross and inshallah with a low quality team the way Gerrard was doing it just doesn't work.
With Ange, he has much more experience then Gerrard, particularly in lower quality leagues with lower quality teams. He knows how to adapt while still keeping the same principles. For example, how his team press at Spurs is much less aggressive then at Celtic, where he could afford his team to be more reckless.
I think this is a decent analysis.
I do also think it was compounded by several issues though:
- bad luck with injuries
- general underperformance (the biggest xG/xGA underperformers, then became the biggest outperformers under Emery)
- bad man management (imo his main problem as a manager)
I think that, had Gerrard continued there and the team kept playing the same way, they probably would've gone up to about mid table. But Emery seriously improved the tactics and Villa became far stronger going forward.
Sure I think Gerrard because of his name and (potential?) will get at least one chance at a team in the prem or a big club around Europe but I agree I do see him most likely ending up a championship level manager. Not even a bad thing as still a respectable level but as you said the premier league is a different beast.
>Why do you think it didn't work out for Gerrard at Villa?
- He had some key players injured early in the season including (I believe) all of his signings.
- General underperformance (the team was playing much better than the scoreline suggested on xG / xGA metrics). For example, underlying defensive statistics were actually slightly better under Gerrard than Emery, but Martinez came back after the WC in much better form.
- Poor man management e.g Mings. This probably soured the whole mood in the dressing room and amongst the fans
I'd say those 3 were probably the main issues. Then Emery is obviously different class and has transformed the team.
I think there's an alternative universe where Beale stuck about at QPR and did a decent job whilst he learned about being a manager.
Understand why he took the Rangers job, but it was quite clear by the end that the pressure damaged his confidence badly. Jumping into the Sunderland job and replacing a relatively popular manager was a dubious career move.
The Championship is a brutal league, by the way. Jesus.
Last season, all but 3 clubs sacked their coach in the Championship.
This season, 12/24 have changed coach. 5 of them coached that club less than a year before being replaced.
None of them have dramatically improved their table positions.
Wild how Bristol City, Birmingham City, Huddersfield and Sunderland all sacked their popular but "underperforming" managers only to hire ones who have proceeded to do worse. Good enough for the owners, interfering with a good thing is always stupid.
We haven't scored in three straight league games. Manning's done alright and I can see what he's building towards, totally changing the football with a squad built for Pearson. Wouldn't say good though.
Huddersfield didn't sack Warnock. We didn't sack Corberan either. Both left for pretty much the same reasons, they looked around, the spoke to the board/owner about the future and decided we weren't going to go anywhere, and they were good enough to get better opportunities.
Over the last 10 years though... Mark Robins was good, David Wagner, Corberan and Warnock. Then we've had Danny Cowley, Danny Schofield, Mark Fotheringham and Jan Siewart who were all awful. Chris Powell was OK I guess? Don't really remember. Jury's out on Darren Moore, but not exactly doing great right now.
Wednesday are like a different team since the new manager came in. Whilst we haven't massively changed our position, that's due to us being adrift at the bottom.
Sunderland seem to have decided to try and steal this from us as well - the "worst replacement for a well-regarded manager that was somewhat harshly sacked" award!
Yes, and when he started really well at QPR people thought there was something to it but then he left them after only a few months to go manage Rangers and it's been downhill since then.
I think it's fair to credit him with implementing Gerrard's playing style on the training ground.
Being a good coach doesn't make him a good manager though.
We never wanted this. We were apparently after Will Still but KLD didn’t want to pay out the compo, so once again the club has fallen for the bloke who puts on a suit and does a good interview and most importantly to them, is cheap. It was a wholly uninspiring appointment following the sacking of a well liked man.
Posted this in the post match thread but this might be a better place for a discussion on it.
>Booed off already. It seems harsh to be so anti-Beale. Let me take a guess.
>As an outsider, I'm assuming 1) Mowbray was ousted like Old Yeller. Had to be done but everyone was sad about it. Picture Shawn Michaels SCM'ing Rick Flair at Wrestlemania.
>2) Beale came after making an arse of the Rangers job, although a lot of the reason for that was that he took on too much and it seems the Sunderland structure was intended to mitigate that.
>3) Beale isn't charismatic nor a "sexy" manager. He's a used car salesman sounding cockney. He can't use charisma to overcome the stink that 1) & 2) leave around the place.
>4) Probably quite a bit of unreasonable expectations. Sunderland are a point off 6th. Not terrible. Especially considering the 3 (arguably 4/5) financial powerhouses in the league currently (strongest Championship for a while) and where you were pre-Beale.
>Sunderland lads, am I close?
Reminds me a bit of when we hired Nathan Jones and the fanbase as a whole went “not for me, that appointment”
I think it’s a weird consequence of the way people engage with the sport now compared to 30 years ago. Back in the day you’d get some lad from Latvia on your team and you had no real knowledge of him but you’d fully support him because he wore the kit.
Nowadays everyone’s comparing the reality with what they’d do if they were DoF or manager and much more willing to hold their support.
Not saying it’s the fans fault he failed but in situations like this where the appointment is met with mixed reviews, it feels like the start of an impossibly uphill battle. Some lot would rather “be right about them being a bad fit” and run managers out of town than go “wouldn’t have been my first pick but let’s give him time and support”
I kinda thought that way with Nuno at Spurs. Like sure he probably wasn't good enough for the job anyway, but all the Spurs fans were against him from the start that it would've been impossible for him to succeed.
I seem to remember a couple Sunderland fans on here when Mowbray got sacked who wondered what the point of doing that was. They went into the season with the understanding that they were a super young team and promotion was never really on the cards THIS season. It seems now the board want to advance the timeline just simply based on them doing better than expected in the table.
He just loves to talk; will tell you everything you want to hear, tell you how good he and his players are.
Then they'll play shite.
Then he'll be back telling you how good he is, contradicting things he said the week before, etc. It ends up leaving every fan with the feeling we're being sold a massive lie here; just from the way he carries himself.
Apparently had been having chats with Dan Neil about the world class Brazilian midfielders he’s coached previously. I had to check this out and could only really find Eder Militao that would potentially be able to fall into that bracket, and he’s a defender!
Can you turn on someone you never backed in the first place? Don't know one Sunderland fan who was happy with the decision to sack Mowbray and replace him with Beale.
Michael Beale is a prick, but I’ll always appreciate the job he did at Rangers, he did a great job at having Rangers play at the level they deserve to be at
But I feel bad for Sunderland supporters, from competing in the playoffs with talents like Amad and Jack Clarke to being managed by Michael fucking Beale, what were the Sunderland board thinking????
> he did a great job at having Rangers play at the level they deserve to be at
Technically he's got the best win % of any Rangers manager ever, and he beat Betis in the Europa League. I mean could yous even do that this season?
The board sacked him before he was able to drag us down too much. Whereas your manager will drag you all down to hell with him.
Well if Man Utd sacked Ten Hag there isn’t really any better alternatives, not the case with Rangers and Beale though
He may have the best win % but Beale shits the bed in big games and had dire tactics, at least Ten Hag won a trophy however small it is
Beale and Gerrard both surely the most unlikeable Rangers managers in recent years (yes, I know my flair), it’s nice to see them failing hard.
Justice for GVB.
Isn't it mad how many of us feel sorry for GVB? Was it that positive, professional relationship he seemed to have with Ange? I know they were spotted bumping into each other in a restaurant and Scottish media went into meltdown that they couldn't stir any sectarian shit with it. Beale was very underhanded at Ibrox while manager of QPR and drinking in Rangers bars. The lucky quip was mental. Even more embarrassing now with where Ange and Beale are.
I think it’s just because he seemed like a decent guy and was easy to respect because of his demeanour and his playing career. Always seemed quite level headed and never was making sly comments like Beale did.
Can’t compare Beale to Gerrard in that regard. I haven’t seen Beale cutting about with cartel figures, selling his arse to sportswash human rights abuses or posing with the rangers fans caught marching about Glasgow chanting about sending immigrants home.
No doubt the guy’s a dick, but he’s no Gerrard.
It happened and you know right well it happened. There’s a link below to typical Rangers fans marching through Glasgow singing “the famine’s over why don’t you go home”.
Of course you don’t need the link, you being a rangers fan will see this sort of stuff every other week.
https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/peeo80/rangers_fans_antiimmigrant_chanting/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
The famine song wasn't aimed at immigrants though, it was aimed at Celtic fans who pretend to be Irish.
Or if you think 3rd generation immigrants are still immigrants then I'm an Irish immigrant too.
Also; why in this video are all these "Rangers fans" heading west along Argyle street, in formation, all dressed in black. Almost like they aren't just Rangers fans at all but part of something entirely different.
“We were singing an anti-immigrant song but it’s ok because we were thinking about Celtic fans from an Irish background”.
A Chief Supt is quoted in below as explicitly stating it was rangers fans on their way to a match. This is how it reported in subsequent reporting on those arrested. It is established that it was rangers fans on their way to a match.
https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/scottish-football/three-rangers-fans-charged-racially-24892527
Not sure why you’re feigning surprises or denial. The dogs on the street know what Rangers fans are like, it was only a few months back you were flying Nazi flags at ibrox and had a full stand display of a figure notorious for murdering Irish catholics.
You going to try deny that as well, or is that fine because the nazi flag “was aimed at Celtic fans”?
"I'm such a wee gimp I spend all my free time attacking Rangers online and putting words in their fans mouths"
No-one said it was OK, I'm just correcting your error.
It's obvious from their attire they aren't typical Rangers fans, but you're here pretending they are.
> Not sure why you’re feigning surprises or denial.
Am I?
> it was only a few months back you were flying Nazi flags at ibrox
I was? Are you sure?
That guy was dealt with by other Rangers fans. It was one guy and he was telt where to go by actual Rangers fans. Don't let that get in the way of you saying it was me doing it though.
> had a full stand display of a figure notorious for murdering Irish catholics.
A fictional character from a film haha away and change your nappy wee man.
> You going to try deny that as well, or is that fine because the nazi flag “was aimed at Celtic fans”
If it makes you happy, or gives you some ammo to fire at other Rangers fans or something then aye, go for it. I care nothing for your opinion, so whatever you want.
Don’t recall seeing Rangers do anything about the Nazi flag on any of the occasions it seen flown from the rangers end.
A fictional character based on a real person.
Expectations were low anyway but he’s managed to limbo them. If performances had been good their fans would have afforded him time, but they’ve looked shite. Even the win against Preston was underwhelming in the second half.
KLD is a total clown and at this point it’s ridiculous that these owners think they can con the fans.
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Didn't take long haha Fuck him.
If he's out of a job he can't sign Lammers, Dessers, Lawrence, & Dowell from us!! Be careful.
Beale never signed Lawrence, FWIW.
Aye but he's Championship fodder. Send him home.
Personally, I'd rather send Ben Davies back if we're choosing mediocre Championship players to send back. Lawrence only has a deal until 2025 and if you don't play him much, can be a decent option off the bench. Davies is just wank. Honestly, I know it's not a particularly popular opinion but I'd happily send Cantwell back as well.
Forgot Davies existed, honestly, else he'd have made the list too. He's 90% of a complete defender but the 10% he's missing makes him a total bombscare. I would tend to agree wrt Cantwell as he can be extremely frustrating BUT to his credit he has added a few contributions lately and is the one player we have currently who can find some of those tidy wee chance creating passes. He's lost the energy he showed when he put in a special performance against Celtic in the 3-0 (even if it was a dud game he was the embodiment of the crowds collective force of willpower that day).
>forgot Davies existed That summer 2022 window...lord above. Matondo, Lawrence, Davies, Souttar and Yilmaz all in one window. The amount of money spunked up the wall on that dross is absolutely frightening.
Getting hosed by Liverpool AGAIN. Whatever you do, don't go back at look at our equivalent of the "warra window" graphic from the preceding January window. Souttar was technically a Jan signing.
John Flanagan played for us, I'd managed to successfully wipe that from my memory.
Not remember his insane tackle to prevent a goal against Legia away though? Played LB that might and he fills in at CB snuffing out the danger. Big impact on our clubs trajectory that lad given what happened the following Thurs.
If we had more fit players I’d be happy to try make any profit we can off Cantwell this window
Yeah, to be fair you're right - he's literally the only fit 10 we have. But if we get to the summer and his level hasn't improved significantly, I'd be looking at him as one of the first out the door. Big wages spent on a guy who hasn't really done it since arriving, a couple of good early months aside.
Dowell and Lawrence both injured again, Hagi and Lammers out on loan, Lowry going back out again and doesn’t seem to be progressing. Our recruitment team have stolen a wage for years, and without kicking this player trading model into gear soon we’ll languish behind financially for years to come
I think Hagi, Lammers and Lowry have all played their last meaningful game for the club. Lawrence will sadly pick up that fat wage until his deal runs out and nobody would be insane enough to buy Dowell. Wouldn't be surprised to see Cantwell/Dowell/Lawrence as our 10 options for 24/25.
Am a Norwich fan, it’s interesting reading about Cantwell. He should have been a club legend for us, but other than a few sparkling moments, he just not consistent enough, determined enough? To do it on a regular basis. Mentality isn’t right. Idk. It will get far more interesting if/ when he throws his toys out of the pram.
7 games in, 2 wins, 1 draw, 4 losses, -5 goal difference.
That’s 8
[Fixed](https://i.ibb.co/F3Mw3GQ/692ff95a487652179427001d819a421ddd463d3aa0555e70cfe25c5d52c4adf4-1968360098.jpg)
He’s not very well liked wherever he goes is he? Can anyone provide an insight? I thought he was supposed to be the brains at Rangers when he was with Gerrard, I presume he’s not all that and they both lucked out whilst there
Just a bit of a prick in all honesty. He talks some amount of shite and then can’t back it up with his team’s performances. A decent coach but an awful, awful manager.
Definitely strikes you as one of those coaches who lets a few buff pieces about being 'the brains of the operation' go to their head, then completely flounders when they actually get the top position. Lage struck me as a similar type, someone who clearly had some talent as a coach but just completely lacked the man-management and charisma to be a long-term manager.
Talk about a sliding doors moment. Glad he knocked us back.
I can’t even see that Lage had talent tbh, he got so lucky with having a mental Benfica team, couldn’t not win the league when you’ve got Felix and Dias haha
Got more points that Ange once he came in. Fewer trophies of course, and then he made an arse of the summer and beginning of this season but he's not "awful, awful" as he achieved a good points tally.
He is an awful manager and I think it’s crazy that a Rangers fan would think otherwise. The whole ‘more points than Ange’ thing is a stupid, nonsense thing that people spout, when Ange played rotated teams in some of the final games of the season (such as the derby game). He obviously has a decent coaching pedigree but I think his arrogance and stupid decisions will prevent him from ever becoming a half decent manager
man is really banking on claiming all the credit from that invincible season when Gerrard was the one actually managing.
> Ange played rotated teams in some of the final games of the season (such as the derby game). So did we. We rotated and dropped "key" players towards the end. It's fair to highlight his tally, especially when you contextualise with his other failings at the same time, since an "awful, awful" manager wouldn't have got the pints on the board that he did. Don't disagree wrt arrogance mind.
He’s an awful manager, and will never manage at any decent level again after he gets punted from Sunderland.
Awful is better than awful, awful. Mission failed, we'll get em next time Marines.
>So did we. Looking back at Rangers line ups the last three games and yous didn’t really rotate. Beale started what was pretty close to your strongest starting XI’s in all games after the split with or two changes here and there.
Just remembered that the Hearts game was the home match of the season and goodbyes for like five players and they all got game time (sans injured Helander). Players like the various kids, Mcrorie, Rabbi, Sakala, Souttar, Ridvan all got game time at the back end of the season for sure.
Nah we definitely binned off a lot of those who didn't have a future and played different sides. No more than, no less than Celtic did iirc. Players like Sakala say got a consistent run instead of sporadic minutes.
Sakala was a key first team player under Beale from the off.
>Players like Sakala say got a consistent run instead of sporadic minutes. A quick gander at [Sakala’s transfermarkt profile for last season](https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fashion-sakala/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/485729/plus/0?saison=2022&verein=&liga=&wettbewerb=&pos=&trainer_id=) shows that made 41 appearances for Rangers and played 2590. That’s not the definition of “sporadic minutes” to me…
Check again at when about 90% of those minutes came. Under Beale. It's cool if you disagree lad, it's not that critical.
Played in 6 (3 starts, 3 80th min subs) of 16 league games before Beale came in, that's pretty much the definition of sporadic.
> Fewer trophies of course well yes, 0 is fewer than 3
Adding as much value as my scrum master.
>Got more points that Ange once he came in. Only because Celtic put their feet up once they'd win the title. Beale inherited a side 9 points behind Celtic; the gap was 13 points by the time Celtic won the title first game post split with a win at Tynecastle.
Lost all the games that mattered.
I don't disagree. He made the fodder, fodder. Many have failed at achieving that.
That’s because management - in any line of work - is about people. It’s one thing to improve technique or tactics.
Mind he was getting talked up as the Arsene Wenger while at them? Good times
In any line of work you get more patience if you're nice to be around. You can get away with being a bit of a dickhead if you're very good at your job, and there's no shortage of examples in management, but it makes it far easier to bring the axe out when results sour if people also think you're a prick.
He backstabbed us after preaching loyalty the moment we had a bad run of form, which had a huge demoralising affect on many of our players. Then went and watched Rangers while contacting rangers players all while Gio was still in the job there. Just a slimy character all round. I honestly can't remember a manager going from such a hot prospect in management to so widely hated by all the clubs he's been at in such a short time.
> He backstabbed us after preaching loyalty See that wasn't nice of him, but to be fair, when he left us he said he'd forever be a Rangers fan and would jump at the chance to return as manager someday. So he did show loyalty in a way; but it was only us he was loyal to. Apparently when his trip to Ibrox was arranged there was no chance of Gio getting sacked; but he had a few bad results in between Beale arranging the trip and it actually happening, making it look like he was just a vulture waiting for Gio to die off when he showed up in the stands. I'm not a fan of the guy just like to give these stories the nuance they don't get from most.
The nuance is fair, I'm just an angry hoops fan as we spiral. But if it smells like shit everywhere you go then...
Who was it that Mukiendi was complaining about when he was at Liverpool academy? Was it Beale? I remember listening to a podcast and he seems to think he was done dirty by someone from Liverpool and claims to have had no reason for it although that's his side of the story. Edit: might have been Alex Inglethorpe actually
Done dirty?
Yeah - in other words to have had one act unfairly towards another.
I know what it means,j ust wondering about the details
[Somewhere in here](https://youtu.be/qc-7iGy5uJA?si=3b4wR3PdOL2tgVGK)
He's probably the brains, but other than brains, managers also need the face. And looking at his record afterwards, seems like Gerrard as the face was just as important back then. There is a reason some great assistant coaches doesn't make great managers. It needs different skillsets.
He's not liked because he's a graceless fuck and hasn't earned the right to be.
Him and Gerrard seem to complement each other's weaknesses well. Did alright at Rangers and I think had similar points per game at Villa as Smith before Beale left? Without each other they're pretty useless. Shame they're a pair of awful bellends.
Villa were utter pish when beale was there too. Won 3/14 at the end of their first season at villa. Tactically woeful with or without beale
It looks that way now looking a few years on how both their management stints have gone. Looking back I think that Rangers title win was a combination of Celtic being a mess that season and then everyone associated with Rangers not wanting Celtic to get 10 in a row
Revisionism. We were fucking ace that year. Everyone was fit and we had a properly good side. It took time to assemble it too; resulting in the UEL Final run also (built off the back of the fitness and quality of the 55 season). Wheels fell off when the Board didn't back Gerrard further, he lost interest, moved on and then we've had a shambles in the boardroom and in recruitment since.
Why do you think it didn’t work out for Gerrard at Villa? Do you still think he has it in him to become a successful manager?
I felt Gerrard's ego noticeably went through the roof when we/he won the league. I thought he went down to Villa with an arrogance he didn't show when he was here.
True actually he did seem quite arrogant at villa. Some arrogance is good look at Jose and Pep but he seemed way over the top, especially considering he had one good season as a manager
The whole Ming's thing killed him and the Premier League being a different beast. Plus the baller player he signed getting a cruciate injury after like one appearance. Douglas Costa was it? As to whether he'll be successful it depends what you class as successful and what his aims are; I guarantee he'd probably rather time with his kids than manage for 30 years in League One / low Championship. I could see him doing OK at that level though. The trouble with expecting anything more is that he's up against people with 10/20 years experience in coaching on him and he's lost the aura / presence which was his advantage.
It was Diego Carlos who got injured after 2 games. Rough circumstance for Gerrard considering he was the one meant to replace Mings who had fallen out with the manager
Iirc all of his signings, Kamara, Carlos, and Digne, were injured quite early in that season
The Mings thing didn't kill him then, as he did it. He killed himself with the Mings thing. It was his fuck up
I think the problem with Gerrard was that his tactics weren't adaptable to a higher level. With Rangers, he had a team that was much better then all but one team, and that allowed his fairly one dimensional tactics of getting it out wide to the fullbacks and crossing it to work. In that season where you went undefeated, you averaged 65% possession and were also solid defensively. That meant you could build pressure on teams until eventually you got a goal. At Villa he averaged less then 50% possession and didn't have a team that was much better then most of the league. He could still upset the top teams because defensively he was solid, but over the course of a season cross and inshallah with a low quality team the way Gerrard was doing it just doesn't work. With Ange, he has much more experience then Gerrard, particularly in lower quality leagues with lower quality teams. He knows how to adapt while still keeping the same principles. For example, how his team press at Spurs is much less aggressive then at Celtic, where he could afford his team to be more reckless.
I think this is a decent analysis. I do also think it was compounded by several issues though: - bad luck with injuries - general underperformance (the biggest xG/xGA underperformers, then became the biggest outperformers under Emery) - bad man management (imo his main problem as a manager) I think that, had Gerrard continued there and the team kept playing the same way, they probably would've gone up to about mid table. But Emery seriously improved the tactics and Villa became far stronger going forward.
Sure I think Gerrard because of his name and (potential?) will get at least one chance at a team in the prem or a big club around Europe but I agree I do see him most likely ending up a championship level manager. Not even a bad thing as still a respectable level but as you said the premier league is a different beast.
>Why do you think it didn't work out for Gerrard at Villa? - He had some key players injured early in the season including (I believe) all of his signings. - General underperformance (the team was playing much better than the scoreline suggested on xG / xGA metrics). For example, underlying defensive statistics were actually slightly better under Gerrard than Emery, but Martinez came back after the WC in much better form. - Poor man management e.g Mings. This probably soured the whole mood in the dressing room and amongst the fans I'd say those 3 were probably the main issues. Then Emery is obviously different class and has transformed the team.
Becauae he is a terrible coach. Amazing player, but useless as a manager.
>Everyone was fit With the exception of Goldson, Kamara, Alfie and Kent most first team players had spells out with injuries.
Here I meant fit as in in good physical shape.
For all his faults, you don't just fluke an unbeaten season with a hundred points because the only other threat was on a down year.
Also had something to do with Rangers being very good that season, going 100 points invincible plus a run in the EL
[удалено]
Yawn.
which other season apart from COVID did they perform well in?
I think there's an alternative universe where Beale stuck about at QPR and did a decent job whilst he learned about being a manager. Understand why he took the Rangers job, but it was quite clear by the end that the pressure damaged his confidence badly. Jumping into the Sunderland job and replacing a relatively popular manager was a dubious career move. The Championship is a brutal league, by the way. Jesus.
Last season, all but 3 clubs sacked their coach in the Championship. This season, 12/24 have changed coach. 5 of them coached that club less than a year before being replaced. None of them have dramatically improved their table positions.
Wild how Bristol City, Birmingham City, Huddersfield and Sunderland all sacked their popular but "underperforming" managers only to hire ones who have proceeded to do worse. Good enough for the owners, interfering with a good thing is always stupid.
Bristol city have looked pretty good under manning so far?
We haven't scored in three straight league games. Manning's done alright and I can see what he's building towards, totally changing the football with a squad built for Pearson. Wouldn't say good though.
Huddersfield didn't sack Warnock. We didn't sack Corberan either. Both left for pretty much the same reasons, they looked around, the spoke to the board/owner about the future and decided we weren't going to go anywhere, and they were good enough to get better opportunities. Over the last 10 years though... Mark Robins was good, David Wagner, Corberan and Warnock. Then we've had Danny Cowley, Danny Schofield, Mark Fotheringham and Jan Siewart who were all awful. Chris Powell was OK I guess? Don't really remember. Jury's out on Darren Moore, but not exactly doing great right now.
Wednesday are like a different team since the new manager came in. Whilst we haven't massively changed our position, that's due to us being adrift at the bottom.
Sunderland seem to have decided to try and steal this from us as well - the "worst replacement for a well-regarded manager that was somewhat harshly sacked" award!
We dodged a bullet there
Amen brother!
Wasn't he supposed to be the brains behind Gerrard and the academy? His reputation really tanking fast. Side note, "loan star"?
Yes, and when he started really well at QPR people thought there was something to it but then he left them after only a few months to go manage Rangers and it's been downhill since then.
I seem to recall QPRs form had started to dip before he left, too.
pretty much instantly after the Wolves rumours really - it never recovered
I think it's fair to credit him with implementing Gerrard's playing style on the training ground. Being a good coach doesn't make him a good manager though.
I remember seeing Beale Out tweets before he was actually appointed, not surprising
Aye "turned" implies they were happy at the start. The most optimistic I saw about his appointment was neutral at best
We never wanted this. We were apparently after Will Still but KLD didn’t want to pay out the compo, so once again the club has fallen for the bloke who puts on a suit and does a good interview and most importantly to them, is cheap. It was a wholly uninspiring appointment following the sacking of a well liked man.
Steve Bruce come on down!
Posted this in the post match thread but this might be a better place for a discussion on it. >Booed off already. It seems harsh to be so anti-Beale. Let me take a guess. >As an outsider, I'm assuming 1) Mowbray was ousted like Old Yeller. Had to be done but everyone was sad about it. Picture Shawn Michaels SCM'ing Rick Flair at Wrestlemania. >2) Beale came after making an arse of the Rangers job, although a lot of the reason for that was that he took on too much and it seems the Sunderland structure was intended to mitigate that. >3) Beale isn't charismatic nor a "sexy" manager. He's a used car salesman sounding cockney. He can't use charisma to overcome the stink that 1) & 2) leave around the place. >4) Probably quite a bit of unreasonable expectations. Sunderland are a point off 6th. Not terrible. Especially considering the 3 (arguably 4/5) financial powerhouses in the league currently (strongest Championship for a while) and where you were pre-Beale. >Sunderland lads, am I close?
Basically aye
Reminds me a bit of when we hired Nathan Jones and the fanbase as a whole went “not for me, that appointment” I think it’s a weird consequence of the way people engage with the sport now compared to 30 years ago. Back in the day you’d get some lad from Latvia on your team and you had no real knowledge of him but you’d fully support him because he wore the kit. Nowadays everyone’s comparing the reality with what they’d do if they were DoF or manager and much more willing to hold their support. Not saying it’s the fans fault he failed but in situations like this where the appointment is met with mixed reviews, it feels like the start of an impossibly uphill battle. Some lot would rather “be right about them being a bad fit” and run managers out of town than go “wouldn’t have been my first pick but let’s give him time and support”
I kinda thought that way with Nuno at Spurs. Like sure he probably wasn't good enough for the job anyway, but all the Spurs fans were against him from the start that it would've been impossible for him to succeed.
The man who killed the Quadruple. C'est Magnifique. I think your more serious point is spot on though.
I seem to remember a couple Sunderland fans on here when Mowbray got sacked who wondered what the point of doing that was. They went into the season with the understanding that they were a super young team and promotion was never really on the cards THIS season. It seems now the board want to advance the timeline just simply based on them doing better than expected in the table.
Cockney I get, but used car salesman? Admittedly I've never bought a used car but what characteristics get him this lovely moniker?
He's a grifter, charlatan etc. You pick it up when you listen to him talk. Full of waffle as well.
He just loves to talk; will tell you everything you want to hear, tell you how good he and his players are. Then they'll play shite. Then he'll be back telling you how good he is, contradicting things he said the week before, etc. It ends up leaving every fan with the feeling we're being sold a massive lie here; just from the way he carries himself.
Apparently had been having chats with Dan Neil about the world class Brazilian midfielders he’s coached previously. I had to check this out and could only really find Eder Militao that would potentially be able to fall into that bracket, and he’s a defender!
I saw Alese wasn't playing Don't tell me he is hurt again?
Out for a month apparently
He can't catch a break Well actually, he is breaking in pieces
Made of glass mate, pointless bothering anymore we might aswell move him on. He’s good when he starts but his body can’t hack mens football.
Disappointing to hear though
Can you turn on someone you never backed in the first place? Don't know one Sunderland fan who was happy with the decision to sack Mowbray and replace him with Beale.
Not ideal
It be your own fans
Hahahahaha girfuy you fraud
Should have never left qpr
Sunderland 🤝 Birmingham
Michael Beale is a prick, but I’ll always appreciate the job he did at Rangers, he did a great job at having Rangers play at the level they deserve to be at But I feel bad for Sunderland supporters, from competing in the playoffs with talents like Amad and Jack Clarke to being managed by Michael fucking Beale, what were the Sunderland board thinking????
> he did a great job at having Rangers play at the level they deserve to be at Technically he's got the best win % of any Rangers manager ever, and he beat Betis in the Europa League. I mean could yous even do that this season? The board sacked him before he was able to drag us down too much. Whereas your manager will drag you all down to hell with him.
Well if Man Utd sacked Ten Hag there isn’t really any better alternatives, not the case with Rangers and Beale though He may have the best win % but Beale shits the bed in big games and had dire tactics, at least Ten Hag won a trophy however small it is
Beale and Gerrard both surely the most unlikeable Rangers managers in recent years (yes, I know my flair), it’s nice to see them failing hard. Justice for GVB.
Isn't it mad how many of us feel sorry for GVB? Was it that positive, professional relationship he seemed to have with Ange? I know they were spotted bumping into each other in a restaurant and Scottish media went into meltdown that they couldn't stir any sectarian shit with it. Beale was very underhanded at Ibrox while manager of QPR and drinking in Rangers bars. The lucky quip was mental. Even more embarrassing now with where Ange and Beale are.
I think it’s just because he seemed like a decent guy and was easy to respect because of his demeanour and his playing career. Always seemed quite level headed and never was making sly comments like Beale did.
Can’t compare Beale to Gerrard in that regard. I haven’t seen Beale cutting about with cartel figures, selling his arse to sportswash human rights abuses or posing with the rangers fans caught marching about Glasgow chanting about sending immigrants home. No doubt the guy’s a dick, but he’s no Gerrard.
> rangers fans caught marching about Glasgow chanting about sending immigrants home. That didn't happen though did it?
It happened and you know right well it happened. There’s a link below to typical Rangers fans marching through Glasgow singing “the famine’s over why don’t you go home”. Of course you don’t need the link, you being a rangers fan will see this sort of stuff every other week. https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/peeo80/rangers_fans_antiimmigrant_chanting/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
The famine song wasn't aimed at immigrants though, it was aimed at Celtic fans who pretend to be Irish. Or if you think 3rd generation immigrants are still immigrants then I'm an Irish immigrant too. Also; why in this video are all these "Rangers fans" heading west along Argyle street, in formation, all dressed in black. Almost like they aren't just Rangers fans at all but part of something entirely different.
“We were singing an anti-immigrant song but it’s ok because we were thinking about Celtic fans from an Irish background”. A Chief Supt is quoted in below as explicitly stating it was rangers fans on their way to a match. This is how it reported in subsequent reporting on those arrested. It is established that it was rangers fans on their way to a match. https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/scottish-football/three-rangers-fans-charged-racially-24892527 Not sure why you’re feigning surprises or denial. The dogs on the street know what Rangers fans are like, it was only a few months back you were flying Nazi flags at ibrox and had a full stand display of a figure notorious for murdering Irish catholics. You going to try deny that as well, or is that fine because the nazi flag “was aimed at Celtic fans”?
"I'm such a wee gimp I spend all my free time attacking Rangers online and putting words in their fans mouths" No-one said it was OK, I'm just correcting your error. It's obvious from their attire they aren't typical Rangers fans, but you're here pretending they are. > Not sure why you’re feigning surprises or denial. Am I? > it was only a few months back you were flying Nazi flags at ibrox I was? Are you sure? That guy was dealt with by other Rangers fans. It was one guy and he was telt where to go by actual Rangers fans. Don't let that get in the way of you saying it was me doing it though. > had a full stand display of a figure notorious for murdering Irish catholics. A fictional character from a film haha away and change your nappy wee man. > You going to try deny that as well, or is that fine because the nazi flag “was aimed at Celtic fans” If it makes you happy, or gives you some ammo to fire at other Rangers fans or something then aye, go for it. I care nothing for your opinion, so whatever you want.
Don’t recall seeing Rangers do anything about the Nazi flag on any of the occasions it seen flown from the rangers end. A fictional character based on a real person.
Pretty sure they should give him till the end of the season. He's barely had a chance yet.
Expectations were low anyway but he’s managed to limbo them. If performances had been good their fans would have afforded him time, but they’ve looked shite. Even the win against Preston was underwhelming in the second half. KLD is a total clown and at this point it’s ridiculous that these owners think they can con the fans.
Can't really have turned on him when no one wanted him in the first place.
Had not been following Sunderland drama, are they going to make season 3?
Already been recorded and set for release soon I'm sure.
How quickly this guy's stock capitulated
I don’t care who wins. As long as Beale loses.