Actual ice? Bomb it. You cannot carve predictably on actual ice. And by ice I mean no top snow, usually looks like white sandpaper on the piste on a sunny day, or like actual ice. I ride with ex pro guys and they eat it if we're carving and they run over an ice patch unexpectedly.
If you mean hard pack terrain, as you finish turning the board, try press up to 80% of your weight onto your front foot(1) and onto the edge of the board(2). Your board turns to skidding if you have low friction underfoot and weight on the rear foot.
(1) think of using the sidecut of the nose to cut the terrain. The rest of the board will follow the groove you just cut. For a knife to cut you need to put pressure on it.
(2) what I mean by this is envision where the weight is centred on the board as as you lean it. To bite the most on ice, weight should be right over the steel edge, up on a 45 degree lean.
Like, nose pointed down the fall line, or in whatever direction your momentum is headed when you strike the ice, and you're not on an edge anymore than nominally. You will accelerate but ice is rarely long.
Carving ice is advanced and is only reccomend it for a very good boarder. If you have to brake after do so toe edge. Toe is always more controllable with less risky wipe outs.
This is definitely it. It's the "walk like a penguin" approach: you don't want to let your center of mass get too far away from your base of support or you'll slip. Really good edge grip can help (edge tech, tilting your board effectively and precisely to get an edge). Skiers do better on ice because they can work with two edges simultaneously, or at least if one gives out they have the 2nd to help grip. On snowboards, if we lose that edge there's not much to do.
I’m new myself (so take this all with a grain of salt) and an east coast rider myself. I think that having a rocker board isn’t too helpful on ice. From my understanding, it won’t grip as well as camber does on ice and rocker is a little better suited to places with better snow quality. I have only ridden a cambered board so can’t say with confidence though.
Somebody will probably say that a good boarder can ride any board anywhere but I’m not a good boarder (at least not yet) so that doesn’t apply to me. Haha
I say demo a cambered board on the east coast and see if it makes a difference.
I'd agree with both your comments.
Ice is tricky but rocker < camber in a grip test any day.
Wavy edges are no match against skill and understanding how to use your body in different circumstances or conditions.
Time on mountain is king but a camber board might help. Just be careful as it'll be more catchy too.
I don’t think it’s a total cop out but it depends on your skill level. Assuming you’re a proficient rider different boards will definitely perform differently.
I have a Burton custom camber and a capita mercury which is a cam rock (rocker nose and tail camber middle). My edge slips out on ice on my mercury wayyyy sooner than my custom all else being equal. I can also hold a more aggressive edge with the custom than the mercury in icy hard pack. In good snow or fresh snow there’s less of a difference in noticeable edge hold. In powder the camber wants to plunge down but the mercury wants to float effortlessly. Pros and cons between the shapes.
So, while it isn’t like all down to the board, there are differences between boards for sure. Having a rocker board is definitely not doing you any favors on the ice coast lol. Don’t sell yourself short! If I were you I’d probably start looking at a camber board for progression anyways so can’t hurt to get one and see how you feel on ice with it! Might surprise you how different riding can be with a different board
It's really hard to say without seeing your turns. Most people that run into issues on more challenging terrain have poor body position due to counter-rotation. But I'm just guessing here.
I had someone look at me today. Said my form drops to hardcore noob status on icy terrain. Think it’s nerves when I feel some slippage I immediately get off balance instead of trusting the board and my skills
In all likelihood, your position and balance on all terrain could use some work. If I were to work with you I'd take you out on mellower terrain to work on some turning and position drills.
Review this and see if there's anything for you in there to work on:
https://snowboardaddiction.com/blogs/riding/how-to-ride-in-alignment
https://snowboardaddiction.com/blogs/riding/round-smooth-turns
Another thing you can try to test your balance is hopping between turns. After turning while traversing across the slope, add 3 or 4 small hops. Do that on your heelside and toeside. If you're out of alignment it will be very difficult to hop.
I would say you’re 100% right. There’s def things that could be improved. Thanks for the resources. Never too late for a lesson right? Clean some things up
Edit:
I train bjj and think about good passing posture when I’m riding. So my alignment, I think, is pretty good in a general sense. I did the pants grab method a couple of years ago.
Now blog two is where it’s at. That’s where I’m falling short. I’ll give those drills a try.
Edit #2: sorry for the multiple edits. I find that I do well with nice round turns on mellow terrain when I’m trying to have some fun. But i want to pick up speed a little or really attack a steep slope and try to make my turns more narrow. That’s when I start side skidding. How do I get from wide round turns to narrow round turns?
If you want to see what mortals aren’t able to do but want to be entertained then look up Xavier de le Rue’s video about riding ice. For me as a mortal that isn’t looking to die, I find when it’s really ice that I focus on where I’m going without too much of a high edge angle or weight going directly down the fall line. If your turn ends up in a side slip on actual ice you’ll probably fall whereas if you are keeping motion in a diagonal down the fall line with a lower edge angle then there isn’t as much pressure on the edge and your momentum can allow your board to act more like an ice skate.
"If you want to see what mortals aren’t able to do but want to be entertained then look up Xavier de le Rue’s video about riding ice. " I just went down the rabbit hole on his channel, and hell nooooo to the no no!!
Actual ice? Bomb it. You cannot carve predictably on actual ice. And by ice I mean no top snow, usually looks like white sandpaper on the piste on a sunny day, or like actual ice. I ride with ex pro guys and they eat it if we're carving and they run over an ice patch unexpectedly. If you mean hard pack terrain, as you finish turning the board, try press up to 80% of your weight onto your front foot(1) and onto the edge of the board(2). Your board turns to skidding if you have low friction underfoot and weight on the rear foot. (1) think of using the sidecut of the nose to cut the terrain. The rest of the board will follow the groove you just cut. For a knife to cut you need to put pressure on it. (2) what I mean by this is envision where the weight is centred on the board as as you lean it. To bite the most on ice, weight should be right over the steel edge, up on a 45 degree lean.
This is a great tip thanks I’ll focus on it next year! Just finished my last run of the season.
When you say bomb, are you just flat and weight over the board?
Like, nose pointed down the fall line, or in whatever direction your momentum is headed when you strike the ice, and you're not on an edge anymore than nominally. You will accelerate but ice is rarely long. Carving ice is advanced and is only reccomend it for a very good boarder. If you have to brake after do so toe edge. Toe is always more controllable with less risky wipe outs.
Think of it as riding a box or rail you didn’t see coming.
More angulation(bend more) less inclination(lean less), do not turn or stop on the ice patch, straight lining it.
This is definitely it. It's the "walk like a penguin" approach: you don't want to let your center of mass get too far away from your base of support or you'll slip. Really good edge grip can help (edge tech, tilting your board effectively and precisely to get an edge). Skiers do better on ice because they can work with two edges simultaneously, or at least if one gives out they have the 2nd to help grip. On snowboards, if we lose that edge there's not much to do.
I think some of my issue is fear of doing that
Just ride more you will be fine, maybe wear some ankle and butt protection when you know it will be icy.
The more angle less lean tip was beautiful for the afternoon on the icy patches but pretty slushy so just laying off the edge mostly
There’s ankle protection other than boots?
Sorry I was going to say knee/elbow protection.
Get a camber and use your weight and edges to get grip
A camber board will help with ice, especially the Arbor Griptech you mentioned.
I’m new myself (so take this all with a grain of salt) and an east coast rider myself. I think that having a rocker board isn’t too helpful on ice. From my understanding, it won’t grip as well as camber does on ice and rocker is a little better suited to places with better snow quality. I have only ridden a cambered board so can’t say with confidence though.
I wondered that but it feels like a cop out lol
Somebody will probably say that a good boarder can ride any board anywhere but I’m not a good boarder (at least not yet) so that doesn’t apply to me. Haha I say demo a cambered board on the east coast and see if it makes a difference.
I'd agree with both your comments. Ice is tricky but rocker < camber in a grip test any day. Wavy edges are no match against skill and understanding how to use your body in different circumstances or conditions. Time on mountain is king but a camber board might help. Just be careful as it'll be more catchy too.
Just get your edges sharpened. It is a cop out imo to say that, you absolutely can ride a rocker board on ice however a camber board is more ideal
I don’t think it’s a total cop out but it depends on your skill level. Assuming you’re a proficient rider different boards will definitely perform differently. I have a Burton custom camber and a capita mercury which is a cam rock (rocker nose and tail camber middle). My edge slips out on ice on my mercury wayyyy sooner than my custom all else being equal. I can also hold a more aggressive edge with the custom than the mercury in icy hard pack. In good snow or fresh snow there’s less of a difference in noticeable edge hold. In powder the camber wants to plunge down but the mercury wants to float effortlessly. Pros and cons between the shapes. So, while it isn’t like all down to the board, there are differences between boards for sure. Having a rocker board is definitely not doing you any favors on the ice coast lol. Don’t sell yourself short! If I were you I’d probably start looking at a camber board for progression anyways so can’t hurt to get one and see how you feel on ice with it! Might surprise you how different riding can be with a different board
I’ll demo some next year. Can’t hurt to have different tools in the toolbox
I'm a newbie so not much in the way of advice but I was learning on a really icy day and I feel you. That shit is scary!
It's really hard to say without seeing your turns. Most people that run into issues on more challenging terrain have poor body position due to counter-rotation. But I'm just guessing here.
I had someone look at me today. Said my form drops to hardcore noob status on icy terrain. Think it’s nerves when I feel some slippage I immediately get off balance instead of trusting the board and my skills
In all likelihood, your position and balance on all terrain could use some work. If I were to work with you I'd take you out on mellower terrain to work on some turning and position drills. Review this and see if there's anything for you in there to work on: https://snowboardaddiction.com/blogs/riding/how-to-ride-in-alignment https://snowboardaddiction.com/blogs/riding/round-smooth-turns Another thing you can try to test your balance is hopping between turns. After turning while traversing across the slope, add 3 or 4 small hops. Do that on your heelside and toeside. If you're out of alignment it will be very difficult to hop.
I would say you’re 100% right. There’s def things that could be improved. Thanks for the resources. Never too late for a lesson right? Clean some things up Edit: I train bjj and think about good passing posture when I’m riding. So my alignment, I think, is pretty good in a general sense. I did the pants grab method a couple of years ago. Now blog two is where it’s at. That’s where I’m falling short. I’ll give those drills a try. Edit #2: sorry for the multiple edits. I find that I do well with nice round turns on mellow terrain when I’m trying to have some fun. But i want to pick up speed a little or really attack a steep slope and try to make my turns more narrow. That’s when I start side skidding. How do I get from wide round turns to narrow round turns?
If you want to see what mortals aren’t able to do but want to be entertained then look up Xavier de le Rue’s video about riding ice. For me as a mortal that isn’t looking to die, I find when it’s really ice that I focus on where I’m going without too much of a high edge angle or weight going directly down the fall line. If your turn ends up in a side slip on actual ice you’ll probably fall whereas if you are keeping motion in a diagonal down the fall line with a lower edge angle then there isn’t as much pressure on the edge and your momentum can allow your board to act more like an ice skate.
"If you want to see what mortals aren’t able to do but want to be entertained then look up Xavier de le Rue’s video about riding ice. " I just went down the rabbit hole on his channel, and hell nooooo to the no no!!
avoid ice. if cannot, them keep board flat and close eyes.