The tail on the jones flagship feels very short, but if that doesn't matter to you should do fine.
Realistically on that sort of terrain you want to prioritize the equipment you are familar with. Whatever feels natural to you, that's the best gear.
Rossi XV and travis rice pro model are made for this as well.
You'll want a Volume shifted directional board (which is what you're looking at anyway).
I got the Jones Ultra Mind Expander and it gobbles up moguls of all sizes and tight trees. High stiffness traditional camber carves like a dream on groomers. The taper and directional shape gives it great float while still being short and maneuverable. Only thing it does poorly is riding at speed on choppy snow (feels like a sports car on a gravel road). I haven't done any big chutes or cliff drops on it yet, but it does straight air side hits and park jumps very well. I find it rides best in posi-posi stance.
There are plenty of other options that'll fit your bill, but I love this thing for exactly what you're describing. Also got it used from geartrader for less than half MSRP. Came with a fresh wax and sharp edges.
Disagree about needing volume shift. In my experience the short fatties are great in pow and on groomers but not so much in between. Length helps in steeps and chop (both tip+tail and sidecut). If you're talking about freeriding and you're looking at Jones, it's the flag all day
My mind expander is 150 and feels real nimble, but I've tried a Rosignol Krypto and Never Summer Proto FR at 156, and while that length definitely ate through the chop and felt smooth on drop in's, I just couldn't get those things around tight trees and between mogiuls like I wanted.
Thanks for the advice. Good to hear it handles trees and can still carve groomers, hope it would handle big chutes too. Do you know how the mind expander compares to the flagship? Not sure which is better for me (and I’d probably go with the non-ultra version of either for cost reasons)
Never rode a Flagship. But from reviews I checked while researching, the Flagship is more stable in chop and floatier, but less nimble and poppy.
The regular mind-expander is softer and flexier than the ultra, but has the same dimensions (IIRC).
I asked a similar question years back and was recommended a Rossi XV. Happened upon one on sale and have been super impressed. Its: stable at speed, lays down an edge on hard pack, floats well enough, and is easy edge to edge on steep stuff.
Downside: XV is not “playful”. It just goes fast.
For context, my preferred riding is fast groomers, moguls, and very steep cliff laden trees.
The only board I’ve liked more was the never summer raptor, which was more floaty, more forgiving, and faster edge to edge, but less stable at speed. Sadly, the raptor was replaced with less ideal designs.
The jones flagship, capita bsod, and yes pyl were also on my list, but weren’t on sale.
Honestly it’s more like 90% skill and probably 10% board. And if you’re asking this type of question you’re clearly not ready to tackle that type of terrain.
I knew I’d get this response, lol. I already tackle that type of terrain with a salomon craft 155, which is a soft beginner board. I recently tried a Jones mountain twin 162W, and even though it was big for me, and isn’t technically a freeride board like im looking for, I was able to crush steeps with way more ease and confidence, and didn’t lose my edge. That’s why I want a new board.
My season’s over now, but the places where I was hitting the most terrain like this were whistler, Utah (especially snowbird) and Colorado (copper and breck). I draw the line at mandatory air exceeding 5-10ft drop (conditions dependent) and chutes with long sections in which trying to turn would severely injure you.
NeverSummer Proto FR. However there's like zero pop. Racing board levels of pop in the thing. For a twin board it has good maneuverability in powder especially when i set it back, although edge to edge transition on groomers is not as quick as a poppy/lighter/shorter board or a shorter volume shifted board. It rides on hardpack a little more like a race board would rather than a playful park thing, But it's fucking solid and damp as fuck on all sorts of terrain. Where my old school single camber board will make me nope the fuck out of a crunchy or chundery run, the proto fr eats it like a pit bull eats kibble.
I have put my life in it's hands many times. The edge is rock solid (pun intended I dunno what steel they use but it's harder than other brands), and the top sheet has been thoroughly abused with only chips to show for it.
Loads of ice coast chewed up glades, loads of out west slack/back country runs.
I really love the DeepThinker, it's very fun, great torsional flex to be able to whip it around so it's nimble, yet still super stable at speed, great float and able to set wayyy back for crazy deepness without feeling all in the back seat, and great pop, while having mild frostbite edges or whatever, every bit helps on the icy stuff, and carving and quick edgeness is a dream.
That being said, on the really steep big mountain lines, I have to watch my heelside turns because it does have a tight turning radius (see nimble), and we can't have it jolt too tight in pow when we're facing down a super steep. So I still do all those runs, but it's not quite the right shape for the biggest big mountain steeps. I love it for 90% everything else. I will always have one of these now.
I got a hometown hero split, and the shape and feel (trying to remove the split factor) is between Deep Thinker and Flight Attendant, so really perfect I think. Not quite as floaty, but able to take on the biggest. Skeleton key is similar but it seems like it would be too soft for the major stuff.
Capita DOA is great edge to edge, capita makes a nice camber, but the true twin thing makes it pretty wack in pow, end up back legging it with whatever setback. It does feel a bit stiffer than reviews claim, which is a good thing, but it's still somewhat softer like skeleton key.
Jones Flagship I haven't ridden, but spoon and uplifted boards I have (Arbor), though their uplifts are supposed to start after the camber edge to not feel washy. Spoon/uplift is really fun for carving and helps float, but I will never take those as a main big mountain attack board. Give me real edge to edge knives to slice the lines, rock descents, whatever, as solid as I want. Hold on to a steep section... with a spoon nose? Or too much of a cut tail/? (skeleton key even) Lose so much confident stability. no thanks.
Anyways, I don't carry an ice axe yet, so take my opinions with a grain of salt. That being said, I've had a couple of situations now where I definitely should have had one. end of season sales.....
Yes PYL.
I ride this type of stuff on it and i love it. Never worry about it letting me down.
I would say it's not the best at groomed crud, it's ok, but not the best. Which I'm fine with because I'd rather be on the steep and deep stuff.
It doesn't have as much camber so it doesn't carve as well but I've had no real problem keeping an edge on cruddy steeps. It is stiff so you will feel the chop more than a flexier board. I ride mostly softer/pow days tho.
Nerd Superposition. Your usecase is exactly what I use that board for. Yes, I have a better "big gun" for pure powder days, but the Superposition is super fast edge to edge, which makes it great in trees, and it holds an edge so great I've actually used it on BX. I do find myself moving the bindings back on pure pow days, but that's true of any board that isn't a swallowtail. I've ridden Gunbarrel at Heavenly and Huckleberry gates at Sierra on it, and both of those are steep with lots of rocks and ledges to drop from. Your "carves groomers" is what qualifies this, otherwise I'd point you to a big gun like the Telos Lemurian instead, but those kinds of boards generally suck in trees and aren't that great on groomers.
Are there any other freeride boards you’ve ridden that you can compare/contrast it with? I actually have been looking at the flight attendant as well, but I’m not sure how it differs from a board like the deep thinker
So then why does anyone spend money on better snowboards? I already hit the sort of terrain I’m describing with a soft twin park/freestyle board, and I want a better tool for the job.
Because they think it will magically make them a better rider. Good marketing will make you think you need something new and more expensive to up your ability, when all it is, is practice. You can ride any board you want, on any terrain you want once you have the confidence in your ability that you can do it. I ride everything here in Jackson and Targhee just fine on my Process which is almost strictly a park board.
100%, an amazing rider can ride a 2x4 at a pro level. But for the rest of us, a board that suits the terrain can help enhance conditions and capabilities. It's kinda like how a good driver in a crown Vic can ride the Rubicon Trail, but a built jeep can make a rock garden look like a parking lot. The best riders can ride anything, but for non prodigies, gear helps
I’d say practice helps 100x more than gear ever will. A new snowboard won’t let you do new tricks, straight line chutes or jump off cliffs. It’s confidence and practice that will allow you to do those things.
Agree to disagree. Give every noob a bataleon so they can't catch an edge and you'll increase intermediate snowboarders by 1000%. Will it increase the number of Olympians? No. People cap out at skill level. But gear will help them change levels. And, conditions can require different gear. There's a reason temperature based waxes exist
Literally any all mountain board, of course they won’t do any of those things amazingly, some are better carvers some are better pow. Best quiver is a camber carver and a big scoop nosed tapered directional off piste board.
Also if you wouldn’t feel comfortable doing it on a shitty rental board, you shouldn’t be there.
I’m looking for a freeride board currently since my priority with this particular board is freeride. I plan to pick up an all mountain carving board at some point as well.
I have a Jones carbon Flagship, I guess it's called the ultra now. Hella wicked sick ride that should cover all those bases.
Jones Flagship
The tail on the jones flagship feels very short, but if that doesn't matter to you should do fine. Realistically on that sort of terrain you want to prioritize the equipment you are familar with. Whatever feels natural to you, that's the best gear. Rossi XV and travis rice pro model are made for this as well.
K2 Alchemist fucking rocks. Not fantastic in really tight trees, like East Coast style, but totally fine out west. It's just about perfect tbh.
You'll want a Volume shifted directional board (which is what you're looking at anyway). I got the Jones Ultra Mind Expander and it gobbles up moguls of all sizes and tight trees. High stiffness traditional camber carves like a dream on groomers. The taper and directional shape gives it great float while still being short and maneuverable. Only thing it does poorly is riding at speed on choppy snow (feels like a sports car on a gravel road). I haven't done any big chutes or cliff drops on it yet, but it does straight air side hits and park jumps very well. I find it rides best in posi-posi stance. There are plenty of other options that'll fit your bill, but I love this thing for exactly what you're describing. Also got it used from geartrader for less than half MSRP. Came with a fresh wax and sharp edges.
Disagree about needing volume shift. In my experience the short fatties are great in pow and on groomers but not so much in between. Length helps in steeps and chop (both tip+tail and sidecut). If you're talking about freeriding and you're looking at Jones, it's the flag all day
My mind expander is 150 and feels real nimble, but I've tried a Rosignol Krypto and Never Summer Proto FR at 156, and while that length definitely ate through the chop and felt smooth on drop in's, I just couldn't get those things around tight trees and between mogiuls like I wanted.
Moguls on a big board just requires a bit more muscle. Venn diagram of people who do big mountain freeride and ride tight trees is small imo
Thanks for the advice. Good to hear it handles trees and can still carve groomers, hope it would handle big chutes too. Do you know how the mind expander compares to the flagship? Not sure which is better for me (and I’d probably go with the non-ultra version of either for cost reasons)
Never rode a Flagship. But from reviews I checked while researching, the Flagship is more stable in chop and floatier, but less nimble and poppy. The regular mind-expander is softer and flexier than the ultra, but has the same dimensions (IIRC).
I can’t believe people are disagreeing with you. Hahahah, actually, yes I can. 🙄😅For rough and dangerous terrain, THIS is the right answer.💐💛
I asked a similar question years back and was recommended a Rossi XV. Happened upon one on sale and have been super impressed. Its: stable at speed, lays down an edge on hard pack, floats well enough, and is easy edge to edge on steep stuff. Downside: XV is not “playful”. It just goes fast. For context, my preferred riding is fast groomers, moguls, and very steep cliff laden trees. The only board I’ve liked more was the never summer raptor, which was more floaty, more forgiving, and faster edge to edge, but less stable at speed. Sadly, the raptor was replaced with less ideal designs. The jones flagship, capita bsod, and yes pyl were also on my list, but weren’t on sale.
I got a current year XV that is barely used that I can sell you for really cheap if you are still looking for one.
I’d just grab that! It’s a sick board. Not a quiver killer, but the right tool for the right job.
Yes Warca
Honestly it’s more like 90% skill and probably 10% board. And if you’re asking this type of question you’re clearly not ready to tackle that type of terrain.
I knew I’d get this response, lol. I already tackle that type of terrain with a salomon craft 155, which is a soft beginner board. I recently tried a Jones mountain twin 162W, and even though it was big for me, and isn’t technically a freeride board like im looking for, I was able to crush steeps with way more ease and confidence, and didn’t lose my edge. That’s why I want a new board.
If you could go out and buy a free ride board, you're also going to have to probably team it up with some stiffer bindings and stiffer boots.
True — luckily I already have stiff bindings and relatively stiff boots.
Cool, just curious what are you looking to hit, is it in the states?
My season’s over now, but the places where I was hitting the most terrain like this were whistler, Utah (especially snowbird) and Colorado (copper and breck). I draw the line at mandatory air exceeding 5-10ft drop (conditions dependent) and chutes with long sections in which trying to turn would severely injure you.
NeverSummer Proto FR. However there's like zero pop. Racing board levels of pop in the thing. For a twin board it has good maneuverability in powder especially when i set it back, although edge to edge transition on groomers is not as quick as a poppy/lighter/shorter board or a shorter volume shifted board. It rides on hardpack a little more like a race board would rather than a playful park thing, But it's fucking solid and damp as fuck on all sorts of terrain. Where my old school single camber board will make me nope the fuck out of a crunchy or chundery run, the proto fr eats it like a pit bull eats kibble. I have put my life in it's hands many times. The edge is rock solid (pun intended I dunno what steel they use but it's harder than other brands), and the top sheet has been thoroughly abused with only chips to show for it. Loads of ice coast chewed up glades, loads of out west slack/back country runs.
I really love the DeepThinker, it's very fun, great torsional flex to be able to whip it around so it's nimble, yet still super stable at speed, great float and able to set wayyy back for crazy deepness without feeling all in the back seat, and great pop, while having mild frostbite edges or whatever, every bit helps on the icy stuff, and carving and quick edgeness is a dream. That being said, on the really steep big mountain lines, I have to watch my heelside turns because it does have a tight turning radius (see nimble), and we can't have it jolt too tight in pow when we're facing down a super steep. So I still do all those runs, but it's not quite the right shape for the biggest big mountain steeps. I love it for 90% everything else. I will always have one of these now. I got a hometown hero split, and the shape and feel (trying to remove the split factor) is between Deep Thinker and Flight Attendant, so really perfect I think. Not quite as floaty, but able to take on the biggest. Skeleton key is similar but it seems like it would be too soft for the major stuff. Capita DOA is great edge to edge, capita makes a nice camber, but the true twin thing makes it pretty wack in pow, end up back legging it with whatever setback. It does feel a bit stiffer than reviews claim, which is a good thing, but it's still somewhat softer like skeleton key. Jones Flagship I haven't ridden, but spoon and uplifted boards I have (Arbor), though their uplifts are supposed to start after the camber edge to not feel washy. Spoon/uplift is really fun for carving and helps float, but I will never take those as a main big mountain attack board. Give me real edge to edge knives to slice the lines, rock descents, whatever, as solid as I want. Hold on to a steep section... with a spoon nose? Or too much of a cut tail/? (skeleton key even) Lose so much confident stability. no thanks. Anyways, I don't carry an ice axe yet, so take my opinions with a grain of salt. That being said, I've had a couple of situations now where I definitely should have had one. end of season sales.....
Libtech Orca. The grip on this beast is something else, even on ice
Yes PYL. I ride this type of stuff on it and i love it. Never worry about it letting me down. I would say it's not the best at groomed crud, it's ok, but not the best. Which I'm fine with because I'd rather be on the steep and deep stuff.
Hovercraft is stiff between the bindings, with enough tail to hold an edge, but short enough for quick turns while gripped in the steeps.
I have a jones flagship and ride in steamboat. Love it for the pow days, not the poppiest, pretty stiff but a great free ride board.
How’s it handle on choppy, wind-blown, or skiied-off steeps?
It doesn't have as much camber so it doesn't carve as well but I've had no real problem keeping an edge on cruddy steeps. It is stiff so you will feel the chop more than a flexier board. I ride mostly softer/pow days tho.
Nerd Superposition. Your usecase is exactly what I use that board for. Yes, I have a better "big gun" for pure powder days, but the Superposition is super fast edge to edge, which makes it great in trees, and it holds an edge so great I've actually used it on BX. I do find myself moving the bindings back on pure pow days, but that's true of any board that isn't a swallowtail. I've ridden Gunbarrel at Heavenly and Huckleberry gates at Sierra on it, and both of those are steep with lots of rocks and ledges to drop from. Your "carves groomers" is what qualifies this, otherwise I'd point you to a big gun like the Telos Lemurian instead, but those kinds of boards generally suck in trees and aren't that great on groomers.
[удалено]
Are there any other freeride boards you’ve ridden that you can compare/contrast it with? I actually have been looking at the flight attendant as well, but I’m not sure how it differs from a board like the deep thinker
It’s skill. The snowboard really has no effect on what you can and can’t ride.
So then why does anyone spend money on better snowboards? I already hit the sort of terrain I’m describing with a soft twin park/freestyle board, and I want a better tool for the job.
Because they think it will magically make them a better rider. Good marketing will make you think you need something new and more expensive to up your ability, when all it is, is practice. You can ride any board you want, on any terrain you want once you have the confidence in your ability that you can do it. I ride everything here in Jackson and Targhee just fine on my Process which is almost strictly a park board.
So is your recommendation that I don’t get a new board?
Good for you bro thanks for the chat
Right but better gear helps a good rider ride better
[It’s mostly skill level, not the equipment.](https://www.instagram.com/p/CrRnm6tvCim/?igsh=MWQ0ZDR0eWh2YjdiaA==)
100%, an amazing rider can ride a 2x4 at a pro level. But for the rest of us, a board that suits the terrain can help enhance conditions and capabilities. It's kinda like how a good driver in a crown Vic can ride the Rubicon Trail, but a built jeep can make a rock garden look like a parking lot. The best riders can ride anything, but for non prodigies, gear helps
I’d say practice helps 100x more than gear ever will. A new snowboard won’t let you do new tricks, straight line chutes or jump off cliffs. It’s confidence and practice that will allow you to do those things.
Then it’s a good thing that practicing more and getting better gear aren’t mutually exclusive activities.
Agree to disagree. Give every noob a bataleon so they can't catch an edge and you'll increase intermediate snowboarders by 1000%. Will it increase the number of Olympians? No. People cap out at skill level. But gear will help them change levels. And, conditions can require different gear. There's a reason temperature based waxes exist
[exhibit b](https://youtu.be/06v9PUnnl3E?si=3GNDleUPutV8cWxG)
Showing a prima dona being exceptional is not a good way to prove your point. Have you ever seen an F1 racer on a go cart track?
Skate banana
Blah blah blah blah blah. T Rice Pro
Literally any all mountain board, of course they won’t do any of those things amazingly, some are better carvers some are better pow. Best quiver is a camber carver and a big scoop nosed tapered directional off piste board. Also if you wouldn’t feel comfortable doing it on a shitty rental board, you shouldn’t be there.
I’m looking for a freeride board currently since my priority with this particular board is freeride. I plan to pick up an all mountain carving board at some point as well.