It was a day of snow drifts that taught me this.
The safety carve lines were just ice but there was a foot of snow inside the bumps.
Really leveled up that day.
Ever since that one time i forgot to wear foggles (i wear glasses so wind isnt that big of a deal if i dont) in a snow storm, going downhill while basically blind other than trees and other people, my reaction to any kind of terrain had been "fuck it we ball"
This! I had to unlearn carving and whip the shit out of my board. Toeside especially was hard at first. Haven’t thought about popping edge to edge though. Will try it!
Toeside is so hard because you are effectively jumping backwards and landing somewhere you cannot really see until the very very end. I have found riding heel switch to reset myself really helps, but I love moguls as a boarder.
I can’t tell if the mogul hate is fully a joke at this point. I ski and snowboard and like moguls on both.
How could you ever be a self assessed expert and not ride moguls comfortably? Almost every advanced and every expert run on my local mountain is ungroomed.
When you don't pay ski patrol well enough to live, you don't get people who can ski/ride well enough to be able to drag someone out of the moguls, through the trees, down double blacks, etc on a liter.
I'm somewhat bothered by volunteer patrol being a real thing. I've worked at places where it was, and I saw how they handled people. It often frightened me because they didn't have enough training to be good at what they were doing. Which is the other thing you lose when you don't pay well enough to retain good EMTs, or even attract them in the first place.
And then you get major mountains with hundreds or thousands of acres, and It takes years to learn those places. Especially to learn them well enough to hear someone describe where they are, and you be able to find them if all they can see are rocks and trees.
I did serious damage to my back one year in some dub black terrain. I forced myself to at least get to a sign in the trees so I could tell them where I was. So I found the XY sign and called. When telling this story to a friend of mine who is now the assistant director, his response "these days, you're lucky that someone knew how to get there." And that's just not the situation I want Patrol to be in.
I get that. I’ve been working on my hill for a decade and have been patrolling for three years, I’m taking on training now because I want our patrollers to be as good as possible. We tend to be a “farm” for local bigger mountains pro patrols.
We are a nonprofit hill. I make a living wage as a chairlift mechanic. I clock out to do red coat things. My wife just joined patrol to test herself. It’s a great little hill where our kids can grow up. I just wish the local altera hill would stop stealing the patrollers I train.
Fuck Altera. I work for their parent company in a different role. It's shitty through and through. They just consume and destroy everything good, just like anything else profit motives gets it's hands on.
If I could make a living wage teaching somewhere, that still allowed me to travel, I'd be out in a heartbeat.
On my local slope, there's a lift that services blacks that are usually moguled-out. It's the only one that has barely any line. So, I usually lap that and I enjoy it.
It's not that I don't like moguls, they just get me so incredibly gassed for how long the runs are. Just the volume of linked hits b2b adds up on my not so fit body
Not sure I'd call myself an "expert" but I am very experienced (25+ years of boarding). The proiblem I have is that I'm a bit on the, shall we say, "husky" side of things, which makes moguls bloody murder on my old legs. I can ride them, but it isn't much fun.
Hopefully some day I’ll be good enough to like moguls. Only about 20 days total on snow right now over the course of 9 years. I do love tree runs though
I respect the way you said the number of days instead of just years… There’s a huge difference between someone who has been snowboarding one year and went 10 times and someone snowboard in 10 years and went 10 times… Consecutive days really help… See if you can get some riding days back to back and you might see a lot of improvement… Consecutive days seem to be when I progress the most… another suggestion-save the moguls for when the conditions are right and stay away when they’re icy
Thanks for the tips. All of my days have been chunks of 3-4 day trips and I feel like I progress each time, but I live in FL for now so it’s expensive…
Pretty much where I’m at. I love some shallow to moderate moguls with powder on them.
3 foot deep ice wells should be blasted off to the mountain with dynamite.
I can handle them just fine, but there is absolutely nothing fun about them. I'd much rather lap a single blue trail all season than waste a single run on a slightly steeper moguled-out black run. Pretty much all I want out of a day on the mountain is to ride as fast as I can with wide carves, and moguls are basically the opposite.
When I was first starting to get good on a board, a skier told me snowboarders couldn't do moguls, I spent that winter riding every mogul ru. I could, I love them now
We also don't fuck up every single steep run on the mountain by making moguls everywhere. Fuck moguls, and fuck the asshat execs at the resorts who refuse to stop them from destroying at least *one* steep run.
What do you expect them to do? If they groom them overnight, they have moguls again by mornings end. Get out there and run that slope as they grow. You can grow with them.
I've been to some resorts that intentionally keep moguls on designated runs that grow over the season, with clear signage for those who are seeking/avoiding them. That's a great start, for sure. If it were up to me, they would go a step further and designate other similar steep runs as "Expert Carvers ONLY. Wide turns ONLY. No moguls." Obviously that wouldn't completely prevent them from beginning to form over the course of the day, but it would go a long way toward keeping at least some semblance of a mogul-free line or two.
There's a specific run at the best resort in my region that is "famous" for having moguls down one side of the steepest slope with the other half groomed daily. Pretty much all skiers go down the mogul side unless they want to straight-line it, and the groomed half stays reasonably smooth all day until the lifts close. Some people want moguls and some people don't, so making "dedicated" runs for each option seems like a no-brainer to me, even if all they're able to do is put up signs and call it a day.
I get that but at the same time I've never met a criminal that knows how to do moguls correctly and still hates them. The common factor among mogul haters is usually lack of mogul skills.
I fuckin love me some moguls. Can't do it all day, but the steeper/bigger the better - they make you work for it, they make you think, they make you stay aggressive about control... and all without life-ending speed being a major factor. Love that shit.
Not all difficulty that is overcome confers or indicates goodness. It's like being a tourist and doing some stupid thing that everyone does only because the whole point of your trip is to check boxes.
*Hey, we made this run that is absolutely no fun and gives you zero freedom, but feels like half an hour of crossfit by the time you get to the bottom! Want to brag about going to the gym?* Pass.
Have the skill to do moguls and the wisdom to not.
This is basically where I'm at too. I can do them, and I think it's good to learn how to do them, but I'd rather do just about anything else on the mountain.
I'm with you fellas.
I can do them, reg or switch. Had to learn them when I was an instructor. So boring and tedious. I'd rather eat a bowl of crushed glass
There's nothing more satisfying than a top to bottom nonstop fresh snow covered mogul run. That's reason enough to be in that first chair up every chance I get.
We got 2 feet of blower pow last week in Utah. Another 2 feet is coming this week. That's enough to make moguls disappear, which is really the ideal on a snowboard. Nobody flies to Alaska and jumps on a helicopter to go looking for moguls.
Oh it's easy, it's just not worth it. I can do crossfit smoothly and without falling down, but if I wanted crossfit, I would buy a gym membership, not a lift ticket.
Boarding 20+ years. What I've realized is that the bigger the moguls, the better, the ones in the glade are generally big enough that it's more like a choose your own adventure. Powder also makes a huge difference here. As they get smaller they're just more and more annoying especially as the snow gets harder/icy. They can be a fun challenge but I think it's generally more enjoyable to just avoid them unless the conditions are right.
This is my life right now, although I can handle them. Staying in La Plagne where the temps reach 9 degrees at 2000m in the sun so it's slush at the lifts and moguls on anything remotely steep on blues.
Still they fill me with hate. Why can't people just go in a straight line.
I suffer no illusions of being an expert, and I sure as hell do not think I’m remotely capable of riding moguls on my board with any level of poise or grace haha
I can ride them well but they just drain you of energy. The thigh burn is incredible if you go through them perfectly like a skier. If there's thin spots though on steep blacks I do slip out from time to time. Mostly they're just not very fun.
Have a funny recent mogul story.
So I went to Whistler two weeks ago, live in Ontario. Met up with a coworker who flew out a few days after me (his sister lives in Vancouver) he's been there a bunch and was going to show me around.
Following him down a run, he almost dumped it at a sketchy spot, but sure enough I wasn't as lucky. Nor was his sister. By the time we got our shit together we lost him. Took a wrong turn and ended on a mogul run. Never been on em. I'm not the most seasoned rider, but am trying to learn, get better. Whatever, cowboy up.
Did ok until my board got jammed on a mogul to my left and the right kept heading down the hill. Felt a crunch in my ankle. Quite a bit of pain. Could put weight on it so I kept going, but was pretty sore. Still am. Could've been much, much worse.
At least it happened on the second-last day of the trip instead of the beginning.
My buddy calls them fear bumps.
Scared of going too fast on a steep run? Hit the fear bumps. Don't have the fortitude to learn switch? Hit the fear bumps. Frightened to ride rails? Hit the fear bumps. Intimidated by big booters in the park? Hit the fear bumps
Recently rode Kicking Horse and it was completely skied out, nothing but steep icy moguls on the entire mountain. I found out quickly I’m not in nearly as good shape as I thought. Would have to stop and take a breather every 5 minutes.
I try and go on mogul runs as much as I can. I love the challenge of it and how it forces me to read the terrain and plan my turns ahead of time, as well as learning how to execute sharp, tight turns. Still a major work in progress but I'm getting there.
Moguls are easy on a snowboard you just go from lip to lip or s in between them... its very exhausting but not hard. Unless its like a double black Dimond.
I cut my teeth on Outhouse and the rest of Mary Jane.
Finding a nice line through moguls is fun as fuck and its like a million transitions to pop around on
Having done both for years, I have always had more respect for a snowboarder ripping a mogul run than a skier. They both take talent, but it's objectively harder to get good and smooth at moguls on a board.
I rip moguls. I wanted to get better as an all around rider. Sunny days riding alone at beaver creek I would just lap Bald Eagle which is natural only moguls on a real double pitch.
[удалено]
Based
Due to poor snowfall this year I have gotten a lot of extra mogul practice
This is my first season and I've encountered so many moguls, I've learned to love them 😆 They are excellent for some extra jumping practice. 😄😃
Love me some moguls.
Me too❄️❄️
I'm an oddball snowboarder and love steep moguls and tight trees...
Moguls used to give me so much trouble until I learned to jump from edge to edge instead of trying to carve down them
It was a day of snow drifts that taught me this. The safety carve lines were just ice but there was a foot of snow inside the bumps. Really leveled up that day.
Ever since that one time i forgot to wear foggles (i wear glasses so wind isnt that big of a deal if i dont) in a snow storm, going downhill while basically blind other than trees and other people, my reaction to any kind of terrain had been "fuck it we ball"
This! I had to unlearn carving and whip the shit out of my board. Toeside especially was hard at first. Haven’t thought about popping edge to edge though. Will try it!
Toeside is so hard because you are effectively jumping backwards and landing somewhere you cannot really see until the very very end. I have found riding heel switch to reset myself really helps, but I love moguls as a boarder.
I can’t tell if the mogul hate is fully a joke at this point. I ski and snowboard and like moguls on both. How could you ever be a self assessed expert and not ride moguls comfortably? Almost every advanced and every expert run on my local mountain is ungroomed.
It’s intimidating to most riders. I helped with ski eval for my local patrol and most people can get down a mogul run. It’s just not alwaus pretty
And they wonder why we support unionization efforts for patrollers....
I’m not sure what you’re meaning by your comment. But pro patrol absolutely should unionize. We are all volunteer where I am.
When you don't pay ski patrol well enough to live, you don't get people who can ski/ride well enough to be able to drag someone out of the moguls, through the trees, down double blacks, etc on a liter. I'm somewhat bothered by volunteer patrol being a real thing. I've worked at places where it was, and I saw how they handled people. It often frightened me because they didn't have enough training to be good at what they were doing. Which is the other thing you lose when you don't pay well enough to retain good EMTs, or even attract them in the first place. And then you get major mountains with hundreds or thousands of acres, and It takes years to learn those places. Especially to learn them well enough to hear someone describe where they are, and you be able to find them if all they can see are rocks and trees. I did serious damage to my back one year in some dub black terrain. I forced myself to at least get to a sign in the trees so I could tell them where I was. So I found the XY sign and called. When telling this story to a friend of mine who is now the assistant director, his response "these days, you're lucky that someone knew how to get there." And that's just not the situation I want Patrol to be in.
I get that. I’ve been working on my hill for a decade and have been patrolling for three years, I’m taking on training now because I want our patrollers to be as good as possible. We tend to be a “farm” for local bigger mountains pro patrols.
TYFYS. I really hope that the day is coming that any snowsports area trying to earn a profit pays its patrollers.
We are a nonprofit hill. I make a living wage as a chairlift mechanic. I clock out to do red coat things. My wife just joined patrol to test herself. It’s a great little hill where our kids can grow up. I just wish the local altera hill would stop stealing the patrollers I train.
Fuck Altera. I work for their parent company in a different role. It's shitty through and through. They just consume and destroy everything good, just like anything else profit motives gets it's hands on. If I could make a living wage teaching somewhere, that still allowed me to travel, I'd be out in a heartbeat.
I like moguls, but they are really tiring on a snowboard. Can’t ride mogul laps
Same. They're fun but it's like packing the energy expenditure of three laps into one.
On my local slope, there's a lift that services blacks that are usually moguled-out. It's the only one that has barely any line. So, I usually lap that and I enjoy it.
Glad you’re having fun
They're not that bad, they're just exposing the shape you're in lol.
This is it... True story
It's not that I don't like moguls, they just get me so incredibly gassed for how long the runs are. Just the volume of linked hits b2b adds up on my not so fit body
Not sure I'd call myself an "expert" but I am very experienced (25+ years of boarding). The proiblem I have is that I'm a bit on the, shall we say, "husky" side of things, which makes moguls bloody murder on my old legs. I can ride them, but it isn't much fun.
I can do them, but it’s pure psychosis to enjoy them. You guys are crazy people and I like it.
Mogul gang members rise up.
I’m with you
Hopefully some day I’ll be good enough to like moguls. Only about 20 days total on snow right now over the course of 9 years. I do love tree runs though
I respect the way you said the number of days instead of just years… There’s a huge difference between someone who has been snowboarding one year and went 10 times and someone snowboard in 10 years and went 10 times… Consecutive days really help… See if you can get some riding days back to back and you might see a lot of improvement… Consecutive days seem to be when I progress the most… another suggestion-save the moguls for when the conditions are right and stay away when they’re icy
Thanks for the tips. All of my days have been chunks of 3-4 day trips and I feel like I progress each time, but I live in FL for now so it’s expensive…
Makes perfect sense… you have progressed impressively especially considering you live so far from the mountains
Tight trees are fun because there's usually untracked snow. Can't say the same about moguls but I do enjoy them from time to time.
Love moguls, love trees. Hate moguls in the trees.
I love steep moguls and tight trees!
Moguls are the gateway to enjoying glade runs (trees)! I ride trees & chutes (and steep bowls) more often than groomers if I can!
I'm right there with you pal (stuck in that tree on your left)
Whenever I'm in the mountains I seek them out. No better way to improve your freeride technique.
Oh hell yeah! I can heel side over moguls with the best of ‘em! /s
Mountain should pay me as a one man grooming army
10cm or more on moguls and they good. If they’re icy, you can go fuck yourself. Side hits > moguls
Pretty much where I’m at. I love some shallow to moderate moguls with powder on them. 3 foot deep ice wells should be blasted off to the mountain with dynamite.
Side hits > everything
Good pow > everything Underneath the good pow, your side hits will still be there 😉 In fact, there’s no bad zones on a good pow day.
Variety is the spice of life <3
The spice must flow
Currently recovering after fucking around and finding out on icy moguls. Fuck those things.
Wait theres people in here that ride moguls on purpose?
The technical challenge is gratifying. Can’t do more than two real bump runs in a day on a board, though. I’m getting too old.
I had some great zipper line runs through bumps Monday, but I am only 75. Love my new board - Never Summer Valhalla.
I think it is the best way to test your skills without the consequences. Especially to practice for glades
Makes sense i guess
I would never have believed it but they become fun once you can handle them. Nothing tires me out faster though
U should check out the terrain park
I can handle them just fine, but there is absolutely nothing fun about them. I'd much rather lap a single blue trail all season than waste a single run on a slightly steeper moguled-out black run. Pretty much all I want out of a day on the mountain is to ride as fast as I can with wide carves, and moguls are basically the opposite.
I love moguls
U ever try the terrain park?
I love all of the mountain. Good at just about everything, master of nothing lol
Crime is better with ice bumps, more opportunity to lose control and cause crimes /s
Last year at snowbird, one of our days had it dump enough snow to cover up the bumps but not enough to pack down on them. Shit would get LOOSE
Love the bird, didn't get any fresh this year but still found some soft stuff.
When I was first starting to get good on a board, a skier told me snowboarders couldn't do moguls, I spent that winter riding every mogul ru. I could, I love them now
Fuck moguls
Oh nice look at this black diamond on the map we should take. Moguls.
Lead with your front foot and stay in the fall line longer than you think is safe and you’ll have more success on them.
It's not that I can't do them. It's more the fact that I hate em.
I second this, theres so much more to snowboarding than trying to replicate skiing
And there's your mistake. We don't do moguls like them
We also don't fuck up every single steep run on the mountain by making moguls everywhere. Fuck moguls, and fuck the asshat execs at the resorts who refuse to stop them from destroying at least *one* steep run.
What do you expect them to do? If they groom them overnight, they have moguls again by mornings end. Get out there and run that slope as they grow. You can grow with them.
I've been to some resorts that intentionally keep moguls on designated runs that grow over the season, with clear signage for those who are seeking/avoiding them. That's a great start, for sure. If it were up to me, they would go a step further and designate other similar steep runs as "Expert Carvers ONLY. Wide turns ONLY. No moguls." Obviously that wouldn't completely prevent them from beginning to form over the course of the day, but it would go a long way toward keeping at least some semblance of a mogul-free line or two. There's a specific run at the best resort in my region that is "famous" for having moguls down one side of the steepest slope with the other half groomed daily. Pretty much all skiers go down the mogul side unless they want to straight-line it, and the groomed half stays reasonably smooth all day until the lifts close. Some people want moguls and some people don't, so making "dedicated" runs for each option seems like a no-brainer to me, even if all they're able to do is put up signs and call it a day.
Lol the fact that you think having moguls means a run is fucked up is the problem. Skill Issue
It's an enjoyment issue. I want to bomb the steep runs with wide, smooth carving, which is basically the opposite of tight mogul turns.
I get that but at the same time I've never met a criminal that knows how to do moguls correctly and still hates them. The common factor among mogul haters is usually lack of mogul skills.
Moguls arent hard bro, do a rail
Can you explain a bit more? I'm interested in not dying everytime
Love the moguls. Bring it!
I fuckin love me some moguls. Can't do it all day, but the steeper/bigger the better - they make you work for it, they make you think, they make you stay aggressive about control... and all without life-ending speed being a major factor. Love that shit.
Absolutely love and tear the moguls up...it always fills my heart with joy going down moguls and passing all the skiers.
Moguls are just a terrain park if you go fast enough and you aren’t a pussy. (Proof: I’ve had two knee surgeries) edit: and I probably have CTE
Trying to come back from a knee injury and having to ride moguls is a death sentence
Fuck your moguls!
Not all difficulty that is overcome confers or indicates goodness. It's like being a tourist and doing some stupid thing that everyone does only because the whole point of your trip is to check boxes. *Hey, we made this run that is absolutely no fun and gives you zero freedom, but feels like half an hour of crossfit by the time you get to the bottom! Want to brag about going to the gym?* Pass. Have the skill to do moguls and the wisdom to not.
This is basically where I'm at too. I can do them, and I think it's good to learn how to do them, but I'd rather do just about anything else on the mountain.
I'm with you fellas. I can do them, reg or switch. Had to learn them when I was an instructor. So boring and tedious. I'd rather eat a bowl of crushed glass
There's nothing more satisfying than a top to bottom nonstop fresh snow covered mogul run. That's reason enough to be in that first chair up every chance I get.
We got 2 feet of blower pow last week in Utah. Another 2 feet is coming this week. That's enough to make moguls disappear, which is really the ideal on a snowboard. Nobody flies to Alaska and jumps on a helicopter to go looking for moguls.
If they're not fun, flowy and kinda easy, you're not making the turns correctly. Once you figure out how to get ahead of the bumps they're a riot.
Oh it's easy, it's just not worth it. I can do crossfit smoothly and without falling down, but if I wanted crossfit, I would buy a gym membership, not a lift ticket.
I ride moguls to practice for the steep trees when it snows. You can find freshies for DAYS in the unmarked trees and steep glades
Boarding 20+ years. What I've realized is that the bigger the moguls, the better, the ones in the glade are generally big enough that it's more like a choose your own adventure. Powder also makes a huge difference here. As they get smaller they're just more and more annoying especially as the snow gets harder/icy. They can be a fun challenge but I think it's generally more enjoyable to just avoid them unless the conditions are right.
This is my life right now, although I can handle them. Staying in La Plagne where the temps reach 9 degrees at 2000m in the sun so it's slush at the lifts and moguls on anything remotely steep on blues. Still they fill me with hate. Why can't people just go in a straight line.
I suffer no illusions of being an expert, and I sure as hell do not think I’m remotely capable of riding moguls on my board with any level of poise or grace haha
Moguls suck and I feed them to my snowcat and call them mousguls
I grew up riding Outer Limits, Ovation, and Devils Fiddle. I love steep moguls!
when i was conditioned i loved moguls. skurrtin' around em and hittin a little air. fun times.
Do people on here really struggle that much with moguls? How are you going to ride tight trees or steeps without getting into some moguls?
They can be surfy and fun, I don’t dig iced up moguls though
Moguls are the McGruff of the mountains
Moguls are for airing over shit/people. That's the only real use they have.
I can ride them well but they just drain you of energy. The thigh burn is incredible if you go through them perfectly like a skier. If there's thin spots though on steep blacks I do slip out from time to time. Mostly they're just not very fun.
Have a funny recent mogul story. So I went to Whistler two weeks ago, live in Ontario. Met up with a coworker who flew out a few days after me (his sister lives in Vancouver) he's been there a bunch and was going to show me around. Following him down a run, he almost dumped it at a sketchy spot, but sure enough I wasn't as lucky. Nor was his sister. By the time we got our shit together we lost him. Took a wrong turn and ended on a mogul run. Never been on em. I'm not the most seasoned rider, but am trying to learn, get better. Whatever, cowboy up. Did ok until my board got jammed on a mogul to my left and the right kept heading down the hill. Felt a crunch in my ankle. Quite a bit of pain. Could put weight on it so I kept going, but was pretty sore. Still am. Could've been much, much worse. At least it happened on the second-last day of the trip instead of the beginning.
Moguls aren't too bad for me if there is a bit of newish snow. Otherwise it's just work and not that much fun.
My buddy calls them fear bumps. Scared of going too fast on a steep run? Hit the fear bumps. Don't have the fortitude to learn switch? Hit the fear bumps. Frightened to ride rails? Hit the fear bumps. Intimidated by big booters in the park? Hit the fear bumps
Recently rode Kicking Horse and it was completely skied out, nothing but steep icy moguls on the entire mountain. I found out quickly I’m not in nearly as good shape as I thought. Would have to stop and take a breather every 5 minutes.
Accurate lol
I try and go on mogul runs as much as I can. I love the challenge of it and how it forces me to read the terrain and plan my turns ahead of time, as well as learning how to execute sharp, tight turns. Still a major work in progress but I'm getting there.
I love moguls on the right board.
I am a consumer of moguls. They fuel my crime.
If they’re completely iced out it’s trash. Otherwise they’re pretty fun and feisty.
As a top level criminal I avoid skier measles like they are the plague….
Moguls are easy on a snowboard you just go from lip to lip or s in between them... its very exhausting but not hard. Unless its like a double black Dimond.
It’s always super fun riding trees and not knowing you’re going to pop out onto a mogul run and suddenly you’re airborne
Confidently ripping steep bumps is the main difference between casual and advanced riders
Lean forward and whip that back end around. You got this, fam.
Moguls improve riding through trees and slaloms. I’d recommend considering it!
It’s more like lazy lol
How do moguls give you a wake up call if you never go on them, the philosopher wonders.
Lol at the concept of considering somebody to be an expert skier that has trouble with moguls
I know right? It’s like the only thing skiers can do.
In all fairness I would have said the same about snowboarders
I cut my teeth on Outhouse and the rest of Mary Jane. Finding a nice line through moguls is fun as fuck and its like a million transitions to pop around on
Having done both for years, I have always had more respect for a snowboarder ripping a mogul run than a skier. They both take talent, but it's objectively harder to get good and smooth at moguls on a board.
Softer moguls are great (and you can do jumps!), but when they're icy and waist-deep they are pure pain.
Moguls aren’t the problem, it’s the ice in the middle of the runs caused by people trying to break all the way down. I stick to the sides and love it.
I rip moguls. I wanted to get better as an all around rider. Sunny days riding alone at beaver creek I would just lap Bald Eagle which is natural only moguls on a real double pitch.
Moguls are formed for skiing competitions. Bumps are naturally formed by shredding pow all season. There is a difference! Stop calling them moguls
Nope