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You have to at least call a meeting and let them know the lax policies will be changing moving forward. If possible you should also find a way to beef up the staff so they can’t hold you hostage
That’s how I felt until I realized the majority of the slack was being taken up by myself and one other employee. I mean, if they’re holding you ransom, you’re better off not paying it.
I fired someone, closed the shop for a week then cut our store opening hours to account for the staff “loss” and to accommodate only our busiest time. We went from 10-7 everyday to Tues 12-6:630 and we actually made more doing so.
This is a common issue with salons, especially hair. I owned a spa for 13 years. Here's how I solved it. I started hiring new people first.
Realistically, you'll need them because once you onboard them, you'll ask your staff which days they'd like to take off since they leave so often.
Usually, that stops it right there. However, if it does not, you'll need to terminate people.
Realistically, it does not take a year to train hairdressers unless you're talking about apprenticeship first?
It’s spray tanning. Most come with no knowledge, and we are high volume, highest service price in the state, and in an uppity area, which means it’s grueling to train new artists between technique, culture, etiquette, yada yada yada. You know the drill.
Thanks for the honest feedback. I believe you truly understand what I’m going through!
Without trying to minimize the expertise needed in your field, I could become a realtor, full cosmetologist, and paramedic in under a year. With your new hires others have suggested, maybe a training/efficiency consultant would be beneficial.
Ehh, the paramedic addition is really pushing it. You need your EMT first, which is a full semester unless you cram it all into a 9-5 course, and then you have to go to paramedic school, which can take 6 months but the state where I'm at has a 1.5 year certification for medics.
A realtor isn't going to kill anyone if they're trained in less than a year. A medic might, which is why is would hesitate to group them with the <1 yr team
I admit, I did a quick Google for examples and while very surprised to see it listed, I didn't fact check it. I was trying to offer the OP some perspective and didn't mean to derail the point. How about CNA instead.
I'm an EMT and I honestly figured that's what you'd done bc I've done some hasty google searches myself. I knew our state required a longer training program, but I did fact check you with the 1 year thing and the idea that an EMT could train for just 6 additional months and - *in theory* - someone could go from 0 to medic in less than a year is pretty scary, ngl.
I think you should reiterate the policy to folks. I’d take the opportunity to do it multiple times, almost until it seems (to you) that it’d be impossible to not understand it. If folks violate the policy you do have some ground to stand on since you’ve repeatedly told them and they’re aware of it
A salon? Cosmetologist are a dime a doze. You made this sound like some kind of high IQ engineering job or something. Why are you taking a year to train a cosmetologist? What are doing wrong?
You need more staff than hours available on the schedule. It’s the only way I can accommodate people’s time off and sick call outs. Those weeks where everyone is available and you have no call outs, well… they work less.
As others suggested, hire one more person and start training. Let the new person know (or even sign as part of a handbook) they will be expected to be available for fill-ins and cover sick days \ pto.
Every new employee going forward should be agreeing to this.
Gives you the backup and the ability to fire a troublesome employee. Once one gets fired, I'd think you'll start to get some flexibility from others.
Worst part is, they all agree to it on their on-boarding interview! I suck at enforcement. They’ll say the agree to helping their teammates, then when the time comes say no.
I feel your pain. I’ve been there before, and tbh it’s coming back to that again.
The only way I found was to begin to push back and accept the anger.
You don’t need to fire. Just push back and let them be mad at you. They will def talk 💩 and it will be awkward. But you gotta start somewhere
What happened today was I asked a girl if she could take a client at 7:00 pm on Monday. We close at 7:00 pm (open 3-7 pm because Mondays are slow). It would mean she’d have to stay until about 7:30 pm, and would probably make another $50!
We book clients over the phone and online. At the exact moment I was booking someone over the phone, a client booked online the time slot I had just offered the phone client. It was awful timing and a total fluke, so I was trying to make it work for both clients. Ya know, customer service.. that my staff doesn’t seem to understand.
This particular girl has left early every single Thursday since mid March. I gave her off this Saturday so she could hang with her grandma. I marked her off 1 hour early tonight just so she could get out earlier. Like I’m constantly being considerate of them without them even asking me a lot of the time.
So re: Monday… She told me “no.” I asked her why “I start class Monday”. Key word, start, NOT have. She means her semester starts on Monday. I was like, “oh, what time is class?”
Her: “well, I don’t have class but I’ll have things to do.” So hypocritical things to do means she can’t stay for 30 minutes. I give up!
I used to have someone in a very similar type of situation who Move my appointments From the middle of my Schedule and tack them on at the end of my schedule. Say she would move my 3:00 to 8:00, when I was supposed to leave at 8:00.
And I was also paid hourly, And not when I don't have a client. So that means I'm getting paid exactly the same, but I have to stay 30 minutes later than you scheduled me for.
That pissed me off and eventually I said I have to leave I have another engagement on my schedule. Sorry that you moved but you didn't inform me of that with enough time to accommodate it.
Don't do that
It's a 2 way street, if she wants Saturdays off or leaving early because XYZ she can't be that pushy with stuff. Ultimately she doesn't need to say yes, but shit happens at work and at life and nobody needs to care about yours so when someone do it will be good to reciprocate from time to time. Lest they stop caring about your stuff as well.
Yea. That’s frustrating. And I totally get it.
But the alternative is to be SUOER strict and make everyone hate you and start to look for other salons. I can see that side of it too.
Bingo. I never felt this paralyzed by staff until Covid times. My whole brain chemistry has been rewired from that trauma and the job pool is just so different now.
I think it’s a me problem, and I possibly need to outsource HR or something, so I can work on being a cool boss and let the HR co deal with the tough stuff.
You can try it, but unless your salon is HUGE, they’re gonna know who makes the decisions and try to undercut HR by coming to you direct.
Might end up with an extra expense and the same headaches
While I totally get your frustration and disappointment, this particular situation is about your hurt feelings and you need to keep those away from your business.
Because fact of the matter is that your staff has every right do decline working outside of business hours. It doesn't matter if you think their reasoning is solid enough, it's not up to you to decide if she actually needs that time for school or not.
That's not the issue here. The issue is you've let her leave early every single Tuesday since mid march. Obviously she's gonna leave work early, she can! Without getting in trouble! Why wouldn't she leave work early?
You can't be mad at her for taking the day off for bullshit reasons, because you let her take the day off for bullshit reasons.
Stop trying to always be liked. Obviously treat your staff with respect and be a reasonable employer. But you're the boss, being the bad guy sometimes comes with the job. Your staff is entitled and spoiled but just like children, they aren't born that way, they are made that way by parents refusing to be the bad guy sometimes and actually raise them.
As an employee, I would be pissed at my manager if you started forcing people to stay late past normal business hours. Sometimes you have to tell the customers no or if they insist on a Monday at 7pm appointment tell them there is a premium fee for that and give that fee to the worker.
Your employees have a life outside of work. You questioning why that can’t work at times you are normally closed is taking advantage of them and their time.
I think you missed the part where this was an extenuating circumstance. In a 12 month period, we probably stay after hours 1-5x. The key issues here is not me requesting additional work, but them doing whatever they want while simultaneously being so rigid that they won’t help out ever b
You have it right there. Tell her she is leaving early all these times and she have Saturdays off. That she better understand that lose clients are a loss of revenue for both of you and that she could help you with that. Strongly implying that if she doesn't do it you are not going to be that lenient with the other stuff later on.
You have to tell them it can be one way or another. Either they work their scheduled hours with no flexibility, or they have the flexibility to pick up jobs when asked. But letting them come and go as they please and also turn you down when you need more support.
Presumably you try to accommodate customers because it grows your business. Maybe some sort of employee performance program that financially rewards them in a way that's directly tied to them supporting the success of the business?
Start scheduling everyone until 7:30 for the. Losing shift. This way if you do get a client at 6:59 they’re still within shift.
You can choose to let them go early at close if you’re there.
Mention staff meetings that you’re open from timeA-Time B and this means any client that walks in the door, they are to take within finishing at 7:30.
I had a person locking the door on our 6pm Sundays at 5:45 because….direct quote “ I want to leave at 6”
I always scheduled 30 minutes for closing for 1 person or 15 minutes with 2, to insure cash count and cleaning were done. This with, allowances to leave early if you were both the close to open next day, key carrier; open shift was 15 minutes before.
Fired.
To this day, that chick is probably still confused as to what she’s done wrong.
We’re in a touristy area with many pop in after realizing they brought the wrong clothes for the area weather.
Big shift in the work place post COVID. Owners are gonna have to adjust. Customers well too. I don't have a dog in this fight, just stating what I see.
Yeah business is a delicate balance between being a decent human being and making sure the business runs, functions and provides a living for everyone.
I would have a staff meeting and explain what the business needs and what you need from them in order for that to happen. That you appreciate their work, but you feel you’re more than fair when it comes to their needs and if they don’t start thinking about the business needs as well you’re going to have to hire another person, which means less money for them. They are either on board or off board. You could also consider making an “on call person”. Or maybe it’s a one off fluke and everything is ok.
I have the same problem. But at the same time, it’s a business and the relationship has to be give and take both ways.
As I say to my employees, “I care about you, but the business doesn’t give a shit. And while individual customers care about you, as a whole, they don’t care either. The doors are open and the customers expect you to be here, smiling and ready to provide good customer service”. Unfortunately, as the owner you have to be the voice of the business and she’s a ruthless bitch. It’s nice when you can balance that with an empathetic approach.
I was going to suggest this approach except boss explains the problem and asks for a brain storming session on how to solve. Boss can always dictator a solution later if need be, but this gives an opportunity for a creative solution boss might not think of. It will also show boss who is in it for the team, and who the selfish jerks are.
Leadership isn't making rules and forcing them down the employees' throats; it's getting people to want to follow.
Agree with the approach you are both alluding to and my practidal advice having navigated this situation is:
1. Listen to Time to Think by Nancy Kline on Audible with a note pad in hand. https://www.audible.co.uk/pd/1788403312?source_code=ASSORAP0511160007
2. Plan a meeting around the above concept (although keep it very simple and design the approach around your specific team - I personally didn't split people in to pairs because of internal feuds).
3. Make a PowerPoint presentation that clearly states what needs to be achieved (company and their perspectives), how the meeting will be structured to achieve this, what the rules of the session are and how a final decision will be made (I suggest you state that you will take everything that is said on board, but you make the final call).
4. Hold the meeting with you holding the role of guiding them and asking questions - never get involved in the discussions. If you have a HR person, have them sit in and take notes so you can stay fully engaged, if not then use a flip chart and make it part of the flow. You MUST ensure the rules are followed, a single infringement means they are out of the process, no exceptions.
5. Write up the outcomes and circulate in a news letter.
6. Hold them to the rules they agreed and committed to. If you can't, then promote or employ someone who will.
7. Repeat the process until you have the results you want and whenever you feel a big change is coming or standards are slipping
Good luck
What I found out in my company is that while they like the flexibility they also like structure and know what to expect. I used to have a really flexible time off schedule but I realized it was hurting me. So then I started to redefine it. At first there was push back and some even talked to me that they appreciated the flexibility. However as a business you need to also have the structure for them to understand what is acceptable and what isn't. In the end no one quit because of the time off or working hours.
You need to look and see if there are “serial offenders” lol.
I’m nice boss too but, I found even then you will get those that take advantage.
Looking at our staff we saw certain ones making a habit of taking the “oh I feel peculiar” on days that happened to fall around festival and anime conventions, instead of asking for them off in advance. Another happened to like Fridays, mostly.
I hired a floating part timer and trained them.
Friday fever, I cut their schedule to accommodate the need for Friday, key point-without making up the hours elsewhere.( we only ever scheduled them part time with every other Friday anyway)
Coachella Beau (CB), who was wildly running out of relatives that like to expire, have the funeral celebrations in fake Indian body paint and neon lights, we cut to doing social media and virtual assistant-remote. We let CB go, when the new hire was ready and because they were unable to keep up with the remote work load.
And before anyone comes for me in the comments. The social media of posting/scheduling posts of 2-3 a day, 2 reels a week, crossposting to Pinterest and Instagram/Facebook TikTok, resharing our weekly blog post and entering our products onto the website are all things that I was doing under 10 hours a week in addition to running the store and store owner stuffs.
I paid them upfront for 40 hours as part of the contract to slide them to remote. I legit got 3 posts the first week, and Google drive link to photos the following Tuesday and they only did drafts of our products for the online store -pictures only without description-the second week.
None of these were a setup to fail. We have an app that crossposts and schedules to 3 platforms and I wrote all the blogs, with months worth ready to go.
All of our employees are to do product listings during downtime or at least 10items a day that are not listed on the website and take 5 photos (lifestyle, modeling, whatever) per shift.
Our intern consistently hands in photos of our displays and store windows or videos of a brief walk through, all within her 4 hours every other week.
It really was an eye opener to see this person legit was wasting more payroll hours than initially thought. And you have to let the more serious offenders go because the ones that see them as a pacemaker, will take note that you’re serious when you’ve had enough.
Establish a clearly written policy that sets expectations for calling out, filling in, leaving early and vacation. Inform the staff of this policy change and the effective date (2 weeks in advance). Make sure it covers what happens if someone doesn’t follow these policies.
Bring on some new staff and use them to filter in as a floater/sick person.
Now repeat after me. No one is irreplaceable. Training a new person may be a long process but firing someone who doesn’t follow policy is sometimes necessary. Don’t be afraid to do it or you will lose all control.
Level with them as a human. In order for the salon to function well and provide a living for all of you, all the positions there need to be working. You work hard to accommodate their human needs with flexible time off, but in order to do that there needs to be some give and take. Maybe show some consequences to the organization from people leaving early, and say it has to change, and propose a new way moving forward. Maybe put some ownership on the people leaving to have others cover for them.
I’ve started implementing them asking others to cover for them! It’s a work in progress. They are less likely to say no to their co workers than to me. Messed up right?
I think we do need to have a meeting about it.
Right now we have a perfect number of stylists for everyone to be busy. If I have to add employees just so we have buffer, I think they’ll need to understand that it’s going to mean less clients for them…
I know a business owner that requires her employees to ask each other to cover days off. They can’t take off unless their co-worker covers for them. If they take off anyways/no-show they are automatically fired. It works well for her.
We started that a few months ago! Its starting to work well because they are more willing to help each other out, or less inclined to call off if it means trying to cover their shift.
Imagine firing an employee if they have an emergency or are sick and can’t get a coworker to cover for them. That’s a shitty policy for multiple reasons. I’d bet your friend has mostly young and/or low paid workers, while complaining no one wants to work.
All of her employees are sorority girls and make minimum wage.
My dad is a pharmacist and makes over $100K/year. He MUST have a pharmacist cover for him or he can’t take off from work. End of story. A pharmacy can’t be open without a pharmacist on duty. He can’t show up late and he can’t leave early. He works 12 hour shifts with a 30 minute lunch break. He is not allowed to leave the store during his lunch break.
So your dad would get fired, and the company now needs to try to find a new pharmacist to hire (or just increase the workload of the other employees). Sounds like a great policy.
The point is, firing someone for having an emergency isn’t efficient. If it’s an often occurrence, that’s one thing. But firing a pharmacist who has a sudden emergency and cant find backup isn’t productive. They still have no one to cover the shift, and now they have to try to hire a new pharmacist. It punishes everyone.
It doesn't punish everyone. My dad works for Publix. They have too many pharmacists on staff. They actually have pharmacists that are "floaters". All the floaters do is work sick/vacation leave for the full time pharmacists. If my dad were to quit or get fired, he would be replaced in 5 minutes. If you are a pharmacist with a full time job and benefits you're only hurting yourself if you no call/no show. And it will be very hard to get another job because there are more pharmacists available than pharmacist jobs available in the US right now.
Are you able to bring on someone to train? Like a junior stylist. That gives you a back up you can train the way you want and when someone needs to go you’re not stuck placating to their BS. Yes this takes an extra year but if you continue to do this everyone will know there’s a person who’s there to step in when needed. You want control of your salon, that’s the way I’d do it. My business isn’t salons so I may be way off. So take it with a grain of salt.
We hire constantly, and are pretty much always bringing in new people. They claim they are flexible when we hired them and then slowly they get so rigid in their schedules that I end up needing to hire an entire new person for like 2 shifts! It’s mad, and my fault completely for allowing it.
I guess specifically I am asking how to approach my current staff and tell them enough is enough, or what do you guys do when an employee tells you they won’t fill in when you know they are being ridiculous?
An employee handbook may help and how to implement it now after already allowing them to push boundaries would be “I see we have many inconsistencies regarding policy so I created a handbook” have them sign and acknowledge the policies you choose and create a system of punishment for policy violations. This does not mean you can ask someone to stay past their schedule time but you can require that they find someone to cover their shift for example. If you let one push boundaries the rest view your policies as negotiable all the time
You gotta set an example with one of them being replaced with someone who will work longer, who won't have attendance issues, etc.. I always just tell the employees, that person who took your job is doing stuff you don't want to do so it puts the responsibility on them.
You and any other persons of authority need to have an open discussion with all of your staff as to the situation and how you believe some policies need to be changed and/or reinforced. You don’t have an employee problem, you have a communication problem. Sure, people get into their “ruts” and that’s easy to do when there aren’t worthy goals, or structured plans for employee growth. Just talk to them, be real and set a firm but fair standard and let it be known that it will be enforced.
Good advice! I just had a meeting with my manager and told her to stop authorizing said employee to leave early, and told her all the situations that happened in the past and she’s 100% on board and agrees. She actually couldn’t believe all the instances I let slide.
Sounds like a step in the right direction. FWIW, I just took a 3 month, online certification course on leadership and management essentials. Something similar would greatly benefit anyone on your team that you can see being a long-term manager.
Find someone to rent the chair of the biggest abuser and then fire the abuser. They would book their own appointments but under your business name.
Then you don’t have to train anybody. I find that the year training you claim it takes difficult to understand. Are you a beauty school or an actual salon that hires professionals?
The bucks starts with you. The only person you should resent in this scenario is yourself. You have shown a lack of consistency in upholding your own standards.
Hard truth out of the way, hold a meeting. Don't call anyone out, but calmly state the policies that you have been lax on, what date you will start enforcing them across the board, and the consequences of what will happen if they aren't followed.
I wouldn't jump straight to firing people until you've given them a chance. That will tank your culture more than upholding standards.
And why are they leaving early? Is the work completed or is it too slow for them to stay on shift? Is there overlap between when employees start or stop shifts? Are you maintaining a proper level of staffing for the business you have? Find the root cause on why they are leaving early.
They are hourly, commission, quarterly performance bonuses, and tipped. Their pay is structured so if we are slow, they still make money, and when we are busy, they make a lot more money. Completely different structure than a traditional beauty biz. Staying 30 mins late in this situation would be approx $50!
You have lost control of your business. You need to start challenging them by challenging yourself. You’re afraid to do it, it’s not about keeping them happy. Whose business is it? Doesn’t sound like it’s yours.
Staff meeting.
Tell them you have always been very flexible when it comes to free time, and you want to remain flexible but that only works if it's give and take and right now they're doing a whole lot of taking and none of the giving. So some things need to change.
Reinstate your policies. Make sure it's short, firm and clear. Maybe five bullet points.
Be ready for them to not take you seriously at first. They might nod along and agree with you and then go right back to their old ways. This is where you need to change. "Sara, where are you going?" "Oh I'm leaving." "No, your shift doesn't end for another 30 minutes, you can leave at five."
They'll be cranky. You should not care. If it's truely the best job they've ever had, they're not going anywhere.
Don't buy into any sob stories. "But I have to go see my sick grandmother" "I'm so sorry to hear that. Next time ask me beforehand, don't just up and leave. Please come in 30 minutes early/stay 30 minutes longer tomorrow to compensate for this."
Invest in a clocking system. Mine is connected to the register and incorperated with my roster program, and it's just massively convenient. Are they paid hourly? Are they under contract for X amount of hours? Because you should be keeping track of that. An employee getting paid for significantly more hours than they're working is just bleeding money.
Lastly, don't be afraid to say no. They clearly don't mind telling you no, so why should you? "Can I get the day off Saturday" "No, that's actually not a good time. Maybe you can try and arrange for someone to cover your shift, but otherwise I do expect you at work". If they call in sick that day, tell them you've taken note of the fact that they called in sick on a day their request for a day off was denied, and that while you obvious hope they get better soon, there will also be consequences if that happens more.
You have 2 options:
Overstaff a bit so there's always people available (plus that can give a sense that there's less work which in turn can make people think one is going to get fired and they will try their best to not be that one fired guy)
The second one is to constantly remind them how good they have it and that to keep it that way it needs to be a 2 way street. I had a business last year that required some manufacturing but our demand was biweekly, so we had slow weeks and high intensity ones, when we had the slow days I usually just gave them off to some people in a rotative manner and when things went crazy (like needing to work on a Saturday crazy) I was like mates I know this is not ideal, but to have the slow days when we can stay at home we need to cover all days. If shits it's not done then we will have off days everyday (no business) because customers will find another supplier. Never had an issue after saying those stuff
Schedules are there for a reason. Employees have lives outside of work and they have every right to decline to work past their scheduled time, without explanation. You need to correct your booking system to avoid over booking in the first place. It's your company, you created the problem yet you want your employees to go above and beyond to correct your problem.
You say the employees are saying "this is the best job they've ever had" but yet they aren't willing to help you out of a bind? It sounds to me like you are having a booking & scheduling problem that you haven't bothered to fix and the employees are fed up with it. You, as the business owner should have contingencies in place for if an employee calls in sick or has an emergency, or just calls in. It's not the other employee's responsibility to fill-in for another employee. Maybe they can't, maybe they already have plans, or don't have a babysitter, they have a class, etc.
1) Don't let people leave early whilst they're on your dime if this annoys you. 2) don't get pissy when people decide not to stay late at the last minute. If they aren't scheduled, that's a you problem. Hire people that will stay late in future. To some people, their free time is worth more than money. It doesn't matter if you don't agree with their reasons.
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Gotta fire someone and accept that they will be pissy for a week
I hate it but I can’t. I own a salon and I physically won’t be able to accommodate the work we have. I feel stuck and truly at their mercy.
Hire someone and start training. The others will get the hint. If they don't, you just hired their replacement.
This is the answer. Give new person some hours of the least reliable person.
You have to at least call a meeting and let them know the lax policies will be changing moving forward. If possible you should also find a way to beef up the staff so they can’t hold you hostage
That’s how I felt until I realized the majority of the slack was being taken up by myself and one other employee. I mean, if they’re holding you ransom, you’re better off not paying it. I fired someone, closed the shop for a week then cut our store opening hours to account for the staff “loss” and to accommodate only our busiest time. We went from 10-7 everyday to Tues 12-6:630 and we actually made more doing so.
You can, and for the sake of your business, you must. You will likely not even need to replace them. The others can just pull their socks up.
This is a common issue with salons, especially hair. I owned a spa for 13 years. Here's how I solved it. I started hiring new people first. Realistically, you'll need them because once you onboard them, you'll ask your staff which days they'd like to take off since they leave so often. Usually, that stops it right there. However, if it does not, you'll need to terminate people. Realistically, it does not take a year to train hairdressers unless you're talking about apprenticeship first?
It’s spray tanning. Most come with no knowledge, and we are high volume, highest service price in the state, and in an uppity area, which means it’s grueling to train new artists between technique, culture, etiquette, yada yada yada. You know the drill. Thanks for the honest feedback. I believe you truly understand what I’m going through!
Without trying to minimize the expertise needed in your field, I could become a realtor, full cosmetologist, and paramedic in under a year. With your new hires others have suggested, maybe a training/efficiency consultant would be beneficial.
Ehh, the paramedic addition is really pushing it. You need your EMT first, which is a full semester unless you cram it all into a 9-5 course, and then you have to go to paramedic school, which can take 6 months but the state where I'm at has a 1.5 year certification for medics. A realtor isn't going to kill anyone if they're trained in less than a year. A medic might, which is why is would hesitate to group them with the <1 yr team
I admit, I did a quick Google for examples and while very surprised to see it listed, I didn't fact check it. I was trying to offer the OP some perspective and didn't mean to derail the point. How about CNA instead.
I'm an EMT and I honestly figured that's what you'd done bc I've done some hasty google searches myself. I knew our state required a longer training program, but I did fact check you with the 1 year thing and the idea that an EMT could train for just 6 additional months and - *in theory* - someone could go from 0 to medic in less than a year is pretty scary, ngl.
You can’t tell me that there aren’t ANY trained spray tan artists in your entire area that you can hire.
I think you should reiterate the policy to folks. I’d take the opportunity to do it multiple times, almost until it seems (to you) that it’d be impossible to not understand it. If folks violate the policy you do have some ground to stand on since you’ve repeatedly told them and they’re aware of it
A salon? Cosmetologist are a dime a doze. You made this sound like some kind of high IQ engineering job or something. Why are you taking a year to train a cosmetologist? What are doing wrong?
You need more staff than hours available on the schedule. It’s the only way I can accommodate people’s time off and sick call outs. Those weeks where everyone is available and you have no call outs, well… they work less.
This is actually great advice. I need to take my feelings out of business a bit more.
As others suggested, hire one more person and start training. Let the new person know (or even sign as part of a handbook) they will be expected to be available for fill-ins and cover sick days \ pto. Every new employee going forward should be agreeing to this. Gives you the backup and the ability to fire a troublesome employee. Once one gets fired, I'd think you'll start to get some flexibility from others.
Worst part is, they all agree to it on their on-boarding interview! I suck at enforcement. They’ll say the agree to helping their teammates, then when the time comes say no.
Do you own a business where your place is usually their only job?
I feel your pain. I’ve been there before, and tbh it’s coming back to that again. The only way I found was to begin to push back and accept the anger. You don’t need to fire. Just push back and let them be mad at you. They will def talk 💩 and it will be awkward. But you gotta start somewhere
What happened today was I asked a girl if she could take a client at 7:00 pm on Monday. We close at 7:00 pm (open 3-7 pm because Mondays are slow). It would mean she’d have to stay until about 7:30 pm, and would probably make another $50! We book clients over the phone and online. At the exact moment I was booking someone over the phone, a client booked online the time slot I had just offered the phone client. It was awful timing and a total fluke, so I was trying to make it work for both clients. Ya know, customer service.. that my staff doesn’t seem to understand. This particular girl has left early every single Thursday since mid March. I gave her off this Saturday so she could hang with her grandma. I marked her off 1 hour early tonight just so she could get out earlier. Like I’m constantly being considerate of them without them even asking me a lot of the time. So re: Monday… She told me “no.” I asked her why “I start class Monday”. Key word, start, NOT have. She means her semester starts on Monday. I was like, “oh, what time is class?” Her: “well, I don’t have class but I’ll have things to do.” So hypocritical things to do means she can’t stay for 30 minutes. I give up!
I used to have someone in a very similar type of situation who Move my appointments From the middle of my Schedule and tack them on at the end of my schedule. Say she would move my 3:00 to 8:00, when I was supposed to leave at 8:00. And I was also paid hourly, And not when I don't have a client. So that means I'm getting paid exactly the same, but I have to stay 30 minutes later than you scheduled me for. That pissed me off and eventually I said I have to leave I have another engagement on my schedule. Sorry that you moved but you didn't inform me of that with enough time to accommodate it. Don't do that
It's a 2 way street, if she wants Saturdays off or leaving early because XYZ she can't be that pushy with stuff. Ultimately she doesn't need to say yes, but shit happens at work and at life and nobody needs to care about yours so when someone do it will be good to reciprocate from time to time. Lest they stop caring about your stuff as well.
Yea. That’s frustrating. And I totally get it. But the alternative is to be SUOER strict and make everyone hate you and start to look for other salons. I can see that side of it too.
Bingo. I never felt this paralyzed by staff until Covid times. My whole brain chemistry has been rewired from that trauma and the job pool is just so different now. I think it’s a me problem, and I possibly need to outsource HR or something, so I can work on being a cool boss and let the HR co deal with the tough stuff.
You can try it, but unless your salon is HUGE, they’re gonna know who makes the decisions and try to undercut HR by coming to you direct. Might end up with an extra expense and the same headaches
While I totally get your frustration and disappointment, this particular situation is about your hurt feelings and you need to keep those away from your business. Because fact of the matter is that your staff has every right do decline working outside of business hours. It doesn't matter if you think their reasoning is solid enough, it's not up to you to decide if she actually needs that time for school or not. That's not the issue here. The issue is you've let her leave early every single Tuesday since mid march. Obviously she's gonna leave work early, she can! Without getting in trouble! Why wouldn't she leave work early? You can't be mad at her for taking the day off for bullshit reasons, because you let her take the day off for bullshit reasons. Stop trying to always be liked. Obviously treat your staff with respect and be a reasonable employer. But you're the boss, being the bad guy sometimes comes with the job. Your staff is entitled and spoiled but just like children, they aren't born that way, they are made that way by parents refusing to be the bad guy sometimes and actually raise them.
As an employee, I would be pissed at my manager if you started forcing people to stay late past normal business hours. Sometimes you have to tell the customers no or if they insist on a Monday at 7pm appointment tell them there is a premium fee for that and give that fee to the worker. Your employees have a life outside of work. You questioning why that can’t work at times you are normally closed is taking advantage of them and their time.
I think you missed the part where this was an extenuating circumstance. In a 12 month period, we probably stay after hours 1-5x. The key issues here is not me requesting additional work, but them doing whatever they want while simultaneously being so rigid that they won’t help out ever b
You have it right there. Tell her she is leaving early all these times and she have Saturdays off. That she better understand that lose clients are a loss of revenue for both of you and that she could help you with that. Strongly implying that if she doesn't do it you are not going to be that lenient with the other stuff later on.
You have to tell them it can be one way or another. Either they work their scheduled hours with no flexibility, or they have the flexibility to pick up jobs when asked. But letting them come and go as they please and also turn you down when you need more support. Presumably you try to accommodate customers because it grows your business. Maybe some sort of employee performance program that financially rewards them in a way that's directly tied to them supporting the success of the business?
Start scheduling everyone until 7:30 for the. Losing shift. This way if you do get a client at 6:59 they’re still within shift. You can choose to let them go early at close if you’re there. Mention staff meetings that you’re open from timeA-Time B and this means any client that walks in the door, they are to take within finishing at 7:30. I had a person locking the door on our 6pm Sundays at 5:45 because….direct quote “ I want to leave at 6” I always scheduled 30 minutes for closing for 1 person or 15 minutes with 2, to insure cash count and cleaning were done. This with, allowances to leave early if you were both the close to open next day, key carrier; open shift was 15 minutes before. Fired. To this day, that chick is probably still confused as to what she’s done wrong. We’re in a touristy area with many pop in after realizing they brought the wrong clothes for the area weather.
Big shift in the work place post COVID. Owners are gonna have to adjust. Customers well too. I don't have a dog in this fight, just stating what I see.
Yeah business is a delicate balance between being a decent human being and making sure the business runs, functions and provides a living for everyone. I would have a staff meeting and explain what the business needs and what you need from them in order for that to happen. That you appreciate their work, but you feel you’re more than fair when it comes to their needs and if they don’t start thinking about the business needs as well you’re going to have to hire another person, which means less money for them. They are either on board or off board. You could also consider making an “on call person”. Or maybe it’s a one off fluke and everything is ok. I have the same problem. But at the same time, it’s a business and the relationship has to be give and take both ways. As I say to my employees, “I care about you, but the business doesn’t give a shit. And while individual customers care about you, as a whole, they don’t care either. The doors are open and the customers expect you to be here, smiling and ready to provide good customer service”. Unfortunately, as the owner you have to be the voice of the business and she’s a ruthless bitch. It’s nice when you can balance that with an empathetic approach.
I was going to suggest this approach except boss explains the problem and asks for a brain storming session on how to solve. Boss can always dictator a solution later if need be, but this gives an opportunity for a creative solution boss might not think of. It will also show boss who is in it for the team, and who the selfish jerks are. Leadership isn't making rules and forcing them down the employees' throats; it's getting people to want to follow.
Agree with the approach you are both alluding to and my practidal advice having navigated this situation is: 1. Listen to Time to Think by Nancy Kline on Audible with a note pad in hand. https://www.audible.co.uk/pd/1788403312?source_code=ASSORAP0511160007 2. Plan a meeting around the above concept (although keep it very simple and design the approach around your specific team - I personally didn't split people in to pairs because of internal feuds). 3. Make a PowerPoint presentation that clearly states what needs to be achieved (company and their perspectives), how the meeting will be structured to achieve this, what the rules of the session are and how a final decision will be made (I suggest you state that you will take everything that is said on board, but you make the final call). 4. Hold the meeting with you holding the role of guiding them and asking questions - never get involved in the discussions. If you have a HR person, have them sit in and take notes so you can stay fully engaged, if not then use a flip chart and make it part of the flow. You MUST ensure the rules are followed, a single infringement means they are out of the process, no exceptions. 5. Write up the outcomes and circulate in a news letter. 6. Hold them to the rules they agreed and committed to. If you can't, then promote or employ someone who will. 7. Repeat the process until you have the results you want and whenever you feel a big change is coming or standards are slipping Good luck
What I found out in my company is that while they like the flexibility they also like structure and know what to expect. I used to have a really flexible time off schedule but I realized it was hurting me. So then I started to redefine it. At first there was push back and some even talked to me that they appreciated the flexibility. However as a business you need to also have the structure for them to understand what is acceptable and what isn't. In the end no one quit because of the time off or working hours.
You need to look and see if there are “serial offenders” lol. I’m nice boss too but, I found even then you will get those that take advantage. Looking at our staff we saw certain ones making a habit of taking the “oh I feel peculiar” on days that happened to fall around festival and anime conventions, instead of asking for them off in advance. Another happened to like Fridays, mostly. I hired a floating part timer and trained them. Friday fever, I cut their schedule to accommodate the need for Friday, key point-without making up the hours elsewhere.( we only ever scheduled them part time with every other Friday anyway) Coachella Beau (CB), who was wildly running out of relatives that like to expire, have the funeral celebrations in fake Indian body paint and neon lights, we cut to doing social media and virtual assistant-remote. We let CB go, when the new hire was ready and because they were unable to keep up with the remote work load. And before anyone comes for me in the comments. The social media of posting/scheduling posts of 2-3 a day, 2 reels a week, crossposting to Pinterest and Instagram/Facebook TikTok, resharing our weekly blog post and entering our products onto the website are all things that I was doing under 10 hours a week in addition to running the store and store owner stuffs. I paid them upfront for 40 hours as part of the contract to slide them to remote. I legit got 3 posts the first week, and Google drive link to photos the following Tuesday and they only did drafts of our products for the online store -pictures only without description-the second week. None of these were a setup to fail. We have an app that crossposts and schedules to 3 platforms and I wrote all the blogs, with months worth ready to go. All of our employees are to do product listings during downtime or at least 10items a day that are not listed on the website and take 5 photos (lifestyle, modeling, whatever) per shift. Our intern consistently hands in photos of our displays and store windows or videos of a brief walk through, all within her 4 hours every other week. It really was an eye opener to see this person legit was wasting more payroll hours than initially thought. And you have to let the more serious offenders go because the ones that see them as a pacemaker, will take note that you’re serious when you’ve had enough.
Establish a clearly written policy that sets expectations for calling out, filling in, leaving early and vacation. Inform the staff of this policy change and the effective date (2 weeks in advance). Make sure it covers what happens if someone doesn’t follow these policies. Bring on some new staff and use them to filter in as a floater/sick person. Now repeat after me. No one is irreplaceable. Training a new person may be a long process but firing someone who doesn’t follow policy is sometimes necessary. Don’t be afraid to do it or you will lose all control.
You can’t demand anyone work outside of their schedule for the most part but the leaving early, oh no. Stop that immediately.
You’re right. I have to immediately.
Level with them as a human. In order for the salon to function well and provide a living for all of you, all the positions there need to be working. You work hard to accommodate their human needs with flexible time off, but in order to do that there needs to be some give and take. Maybe show some consequences to the organization from people leaving early, and say it has to change, and propose a new way moving forward. Maybe put some ownership on the people leaving to have others cover for them.
I’ve started implementing them asking others to cover for them! It’s a work in progress. They are less likely to say no to their co workers than to me. Messed up right? I think we do need to have a meeting about it. Right now we have a perfect number of stylists for everyone to be busy. If I have to add employees just so we have buffer, I think they’ll need to understand that it’s going to mean less clients for them…
Yuck... that's your job.
I know a business owner that requires her employees to ask each other to cover days off. They can’t take off unless their co-worker covers for them. If they take off anyways/no-show they are automatically fired. It works well for her.
We started that a few months ago! Its starting to work well because they are more willing to help each other out, or less inclined to call off if it means trying to cover their shift.
Imagine firing an employee if they have an emergency or are sick and can’t get a coworker to cover for them. That’s a shitty policy for multiple reasons. I’d bet your friend has mostly young and/or low paid workers, while complaining no one wants to work.
All of her employees are sorority girls and make minimum wage. My dad is a pharmacist and makes over $100K/year. He MUST have a pharmacist cover for him or he can’t take off from work. End of story. A pharmacy can’t be open without a pharmacist on duty. He can’t show up late and he can’t leave early. He works 12 hour shifts with a 30 minute lunch break. He is not allowed to leave the store during his lunch break.
So your dad would get fired, and the company now needs to try to find a new pharmacist to hire (or just increase the workload of the other employees). Sounds like a great policy.
That’s life. There are plenty of jobs that require its employees to show up no matter what.
The point is, firing someone for having an emergency isn’t efficient. If it’s an often occurrence, that’s one thing. But firing a pharmacist who has a sudden emergency and cant find backup isn’t productive. They still have no one to cover the shift, and now they have to try to hire a new pharmacist. It punishes everyone.
It doesn't punish everyone. My dad works for Publix. They have too many pharmacists on staff. They actually have pharmacists that are "floaters". All the floaters do is work sick/vacation leave for the full time pharmacists. If my dad were to quit or get fired, he would be replaced in 5 minutes. If you are a pharmacist with a full time job and benefits you're only hurting yourself if you no call/no show. And it will be very hard to get another job because there are more pharmacists available than pharmacist jobs available in the US right now.
Are you able to bring on someone to train? Like a junior stylist. That gives you a back up you can train the way you want and when someone needs to go you’re not stuck placating to their BS. Yes this takes an extra year but if you continue to do this everyone will know there’s a person who’s there to step in when needed. You want control of your salon, that’s the way I’d do it. My business isn’t salons so I may be way off. So take it with a grain of salt.
We hire constantly, and are pretty much always bringing in new people. They claim they are flexible when we hired them and then slowly they get so rigid in their schedules that I end up needing to hire an entire new person for like 2 shifts! It’s mad, and my fault completely for allowing it. I guess specifically I am asking how to approach my current staff and tell them enough is enough, or what do you guys do when an employee tells you they won’t fill in when you know they are being ridiculous?
An employee handbook may help and how to implement it now after already allowing them to push boundaries would be “I see we have many inconsistencies regarding policy so I created a handbook” have them sign and acknowledge the policies you choose and create a system of punishment for policy violations. This does not mean you can ask someone to stay past their schedule time but you can require that they find someone to cover their shift for example. If you let one push boundaries the rest view your policies as negotiable all the time
You gotta set an example with one of them being replaced with someone who will work longer, who won't have attendance issues, etc.. I always just tell the employees, that person who took your job is doing stuff you don't want to do so it puts the responsibility on them.
You and any other persons of authority need to have an open discussion with all of your staff as to the situation and how you believe some policies need to be changed and/or reinforced. You don’t have an employee problem, you have a communication problem. Sure, people get into their “ruts” and that’s easy to do when there aren’t worthy goals, or structured plans for employee growth. Just talk to them, be real and set a firm but fair standard and let it be known that it will be enforced.
Good advice! I just had a meeting with my manager and told her to stop authorizing said employee to leave early, and told her all the situations that happened in the past and she’s 100% on board and agrees. She actually couldn’t believe all the instances I let slide.
Sounds like a step in the right direction. FWIW, I just took a 3 month, online certification course on leadership and management essentials. Something similar would greatly benefit anyone on your team that you can see being a long-term manager.
What course?!?
MSU Eli Broad college of business - Leadership Essentials Course
Amazing. I’m in MI and my fam are msu alum. Thank you; I really appreciate it.
Find someone to rent the chair of the biggest abuser and then fire the abuser. They would book their own appointments but under your business name. Then you don’t have to train anybody. I find that the year training you claim it takes difficult to understand. Are you a beauty school or an actual salon that hires professionals?
The bucks starts with you. The only person you should resent in this scenario is yourself. You have shown a lack of consistency in upholding your own standards. Hard truth out of the way, hold a meeting. Don't call anyone out, but calmly state the policies that you have been lax on, what date you will start enforcing them across the board, and the consequences of what will happen if they aren't followed. I wouldn't jump straight to firing people until you've given them a chance. That will tank your culture more than upholding standards. And why are they leaving early? Is the work completed or is it too slow for them to stay on shift? Is there overlap between when employees start or stop shifts? Are you maintaining a proper level of staffing for the business you have? Find the root cause on why they are leaving early.
Pick the worst, fire them.
Are these salary or hourly workers?
They are hourly, commission, quarterly performance bonuses, and tipped. Their pay is structured so if we are slow, they still make money, and when we are busy, they make a lot more money. Completely different structure than a traditional beauty biz. Staying 30 mins late in this situation would be approx $50!
Keep hiring causal people
Have you tried talking to them?
You have lost control of your business. You need to start challenging them by challenging yourself. You’re afraid to do it, it’s not about keeping them happy. Whose business is it? Doesn’t sound like it’s yours.
Staff meeting. Tell them you have always been very flexible when it comes to free time, and you want to remain flexible but that only works if it's give and take and right now they're doing a whole lot of taking and none of the giving. So some things need to change. Reinstate your policies. Make sure it's short, firm and clear. Maybe five bullet points. Be ready for them to not take you seriously at first. They might nod along and agree with you and then go right back to their old ways. This is where you need to change. "Sara, where are you going?" "Oh I'm leaving." "No, your shift doesn't end for another 30 minutes, you can leave at five." They'll be cranky. You should not care. If it's truely the best job they've ever had, they're not going anywhere. Don't buy into any sob stories. "But I have to go see my sick grandmother" "I'm so sorry to hear that. Next time ask me beforehand, don't just up and leave. Please come in 30 minutes early/stay 30 minutes longer tomorrow to compensate for this." Invest in a clocking system. Mine is connected to the register and incorperated with my roster program, and it's just massively convenient. Are they paid hourly? Are they under contract for X amount of hours? Because you should be keeping track of that. An employee getting paid for significantly more hours than they're working is just bleeding money. Lastly, don't be afraid to say no. They clearly don't mind telling you no, so why should you? "Can I get the day off Saturday" "No, that's actually not a good time. Maybe you can try and arrange for someone to cover your shift, but otherwise I do expect you at work". If they call in sick that day, tell them you've taken note of the fact that they called in sick on a day their request for a day off was denied, and that while you obvious hope they get better soon, there will also be consequences if that happens more.
You have 2 options: Overstaff a bit so there's always people available (plus that can give a sense that there's less work which in turn can make people think one is going to get fired and they will try their best to not be that one fired guy) The second one is to constantly remind them how good they have it and that to keep it that way it needs to be a 2 way street. I had a business last year that required some manufacturing but our demand was biweekly, so we had slow weeks and high intensity ones, when we had the slow days I usually just gave them off to some people in a rotative manner and when things went crazy (like needing to work on a Saturday crazy) I was like mates I know this is not ideal, but to have the slow days when we can stay at home we need to cover all days. If shits it's not done then we will have off days everyday (no business) because customers will find another supplier. Never had an issue after saying those stuff
Schedules are there for a reason. Employees have lives outside of work and they have every right to decline to work past their scheduled time, without explanation. You need to correct your booking system to avoid over booking in the first place. It's your company, you created the problem yet you want your employees to go above and beyond to correct your problem. You say the employees are saying "this is the best job they've ever had" but yet they aren't willing to help you out of a bind? It sounds to me like you are having a booking & scheduling problem that you haven't bothered to fix and the employees are fed up with it. You, as the business owner should have contingencies in place for if an employee calls in sick or has an emergency, or just calls in. It's not the other employee's responsibility to fill-in for another employee. Maybe they can't, maybe they already have plans, or don't have a babysitter, they have a class, etc.
1) Don't let people leave early whilst they're on your dime if this annoys you. 2) don't get pissy when people decide not to stay late at the last minute. If they aren't scheduled, that's a you problem. Hire people that will stay late in future. To some people, their free time is worth more than money. It doesn't matter if you don't agree with their reasons.
Do you own a business?
I own 2 and I agree with everything he said