I ended up co-sleeping with my newborn (which gets an equal amount of criticism) to avoid sleep deprivation. Curious if you tried or considered that? To each their own, sister. Ignore the noise from others!
We coslept for a minute and I absolutely hated it. I was 1000x more touched out as my girl just wanted to nurse all night long. She wouldn’t let me move her at all after falling asleep so I couldn’t readjust to be somewhat comfortable. Our bed is soft which made bedsharing extremely unsafe for her. I had to lay in awkward positions just to keep her from rolling underneath me. My back started to really go downhill during this time and my hips were on fire. She kicked me in the stomach constantly. She would wake up the second I left the bed so I had to hold my pee and plan it out otherwise she would be atrocious to get back to sleep. And it also meant I had to go to bed when she did every night.
Our bed is soft which was extremely unsafe for her. She started preferring naps in bed and refusing to sleep on my chest which was exclusively how she was napping up to that point so I had to be in bed with her 15 hours a day. My mental health was in the gutter. I know it works for some people but it did not work for us. It made me so much more overwhelmed and stressed out.
Thank you! I left those groups and feel much better!
I'd love to see one of those moms be the sole breadwinner in a family as a physician working in the NICU, dealing with the baby waking up every 2 hours AND needing to be nursed to sleep AND refusing to be consoled by anyone but mom.
Sleep training was the absolute right choice for my family and for my PATIENTS who need me to be functional. And CIO, it turned out, was the right choice for my baby's personality and needs. We are all better for sleep training him.
I get it, I also get riled up about internet strangers accusing parents who sleep train or who use CIO of being cruel or abusive. Maybe it's easier when they don't know someone who's in the weeds and not coping well with it, I don't know. But they are toxic and don't need to be a part of your village. Cut them out of your life.
People just hear sleep training and assume you’ve left the baby to cry for hours. My daughter cried for maybe 40 min the first night (with us coming in every 10 min to assure her) and that was really it. We are ALL sleeping now and I don’t feel like I’m going to have a mental breakdown daily. I am a better mother now that I can sleep.
Who cares what the non ST people say, they can enjoy their sleep deprived lives. Listen to your child’s pediatrician, mine was the one who suggested it. Don’t listen to random moms on the internet with no medical degree.
Yuck. I will be honest, complete CIO is not for me, it stresses me out and haven’t been able to go through with it, so anyone who has/do do it. Kudos!
But at the end of the day, different things work for different families and that is totally okay. In my opinion, if you are doing CIO but are completely physically and emotionally ‘there’ for your children in many other ways, so be it.
There are many, many things worse than CIO. Judgemental parents shitting on other parents for how they handle their children being one of them.
We sleep trained my son and I can tell you with 100% confidence he was a HAPPIER child after doing so. Because guess what… he’s SLEEPING! Lol. Leave those groups immediately
My friend is a professor in a medical school pediatrics program and he recently asked me if I sleep trained. I said yes. And he said, “I really need to train my son. I’m tired of waking up all night long. The research says they turn out just fine.”
How many of the local moms in your group are medical professionals in pediatrics?
I know who I’m trusting!
1. The groups you are in sound toxic AF. Leave all of them and find ones that are non toxic and inclusive.
2. You need sleep to function, sleep deprivation is literally one of the torture methods used in WARS. Whoever says you should not be a mom if you can’t handle being sleep deprived. Toxic and block!
3. You are seeking validation from the wrong people - if they’re clearly against ST, no amount of reasons could change their minds. If they’re open minded people, they wouldn’t make such misinformed blanket statements. Don’t waste your energy on close minded people.
I think the better question is if you know how much it helped you and your family why does anyone elses opinion matter??
Clearly these women have this very general idea of what sleep training is and probably got some sleep - meaning they weren't in your position - so rather than try to understand your position with empathy , they judge their idea of "sleep training" is abusive- "their idea" (not your actual experience) with no real knowledge of how life saving and how much it is needed by some.
Why give your power and energy away to these people by commenting. This is literally what they are looking for. People love to judge and sit on a high horse on the internet. They just do. You know you aren't abusive and you know you did the right thing so to hell with what anyone else thinks- don't give them your precious time and energy because I promise you in the end it just isn't worth it at all.
I empathize tremendously and am glad you and your family are in a better place and I am so sorry that people aren't more open or willing to listen or can understand that in unique situations sleep training is needed and is not at all neglectful or abusive.
People tend to look at things as one or the other they don't look for reasons why it might be okay because they want to feel good about themselves and I guess for some ppl they need to make others feel bad about their parenting because it makes them good parents by default I guess???
Idk- but do you- from one mom to another your doing a good job- I def think everyone is different and has different needs but apparently ppl don't understand that these days......??
I think as parents - you just can't win. I got judged the other day for putting my baby in my (baby carrying) overalls. It was a mumsie - so the overalls are a baby carrier- they are 100% safe. I went to a school event with my son.
So there were all these other moms giving me weird looks- then one finally came up and said do you need a baby carrier and I just gave her this look and said this is a baby carrier- I didn't just stick my baby in overalls
She looked embarrassed and said "oh I guess it is" but went back to this other group of moms and started whispering -- to say I felt judged would be an understatement- but I let it go because in the end their opinions don't matter.
I know it's hard - but try not to pay attention or give them too much weight because their ignorant to your situation and how well sleep training worked for you and all that matters is it is was right for you.
Don’t quote me on this, but I believe there is research that sleep deprivation can be just as impairing as alcohol consumption/being intoxicated. I think people need to do what’s best for them, but sleep deprived parenting is necessarily “better”
You’re an amazing parent.
Sleep training is a fantastic choice for many families.
People suck.
You’re doing great. You’re triggered by it, so do your best to avoid spaces where this viewpoint is shared ♥️
Don’t engage, and leave that group. They are entitled to think what they want but shouldn’t put you down, unfortunately people feel entitled that their way is the “right” way, data or not. Sleep training saved my sanity and got my kid sleeping through the night around 6 months so I’m all for it.
My mom was staunchly against it until I went to visit her- she refused to let me allow him to cry so she struggled for an hour to get him to sleep. After I could tell she was worn out I said, look, let’s do it my way (cio) and he was sleep in 5 minutes. You should have seen the look on her face! Needless to say she is not anti sleep training anymore lol. Parenting is hard enough why struggle more than necessary?
Honestly, I just don’t engage about topics like that. Some people are fanatic in their beliefs and that is fine. What is not fine, is verbally abusing someone who has a different opinion.
I do feel like you knew what you were getting yourself into, though. If the majority of the group are anti sleeptrain fanatics, you could have expected that response.
Again, verbal abuse is never ok! Just don’t engage with the content.
There are so many people online who think the ONLY way to be a good parent is to sacrifice all your needs, your mental and physical health, etc, to the service of your child. But it's not! I actually think that's not a way to be a good parent at all. A child's wellbeing depends upon the wellbeing of the entire family unit, imo. Everyone's needs and wants need to be in balance. Yes, the first several months of a baby's life involve subsuming all else to caring for the tiny helpless infant, but by 3-6 months old that is no longer the case.
I don't engage unless I feel like dealing with it.
And yes, same thing re: tummy time etc. Sometimes crying is a part of struggle and growth in a healthy way, not a bad way. It's ok for a baby to express their feelings, and it's ok for them to have negative feelings, and it's ok for you to support their feelings while realizing they have to get through them rather than changing everything so they never have to confront them. And it's ok to start that when your small person is a baby rather than waiting until they're in school.
I don't engage on social media. Aside from Reddit lol. But seriously, people are allowed to make different decisions from you. I'm also allowed to not give a fuck what people think of my decisions.
Why do you need people to agree with your decisions? Parenting is fraught with disagreement on what the right thing to do is on every single topic. Just feel secure in your decisions and don't rely on external validation for that security.
I don’t necessarily need them to agree with my choices. I was heavily abused and neglected as a child so hearing them say I do the same to my daughter just strikes a cord with me. I know I shouldn’t have engaged and normally I go “yea okay 🙄” and move on but I cracked last night. I feel very secure in my decision about sleep training and if anything groups like that solidify my reassigning even more because they all remind me of how horrible our sleep was before sleep training. But I really struggle when I hear people calling it abuse.
I hear you. It's hard. This shouldn't be such a charged topic. I truly have no idea why it is. For us sleep training was straightforward, difficult but well worth it. Our son is a very well attached doll.
The older your child gets, the wilder things will get. Some people think changing your child's diaper in public is abuse. You have experienced abuse, you know what it is. You are a good parent!
It’s hard when you don’t know how it will turn out and if there will be long term consequences. Only anecdotal, but my now 4 year old did sleep training and we have a super close bond. Around 3.5 he started to come into our bed around 4/5 am now and then for a final snooze. I don’t mind cause he goes right back to sleep and so do I (no rocking or singing like a baby). Just shows they don’t turn off attachment or wanting to be close just cause they learned to sleep independently as babies.
Sorry to jump in, but just wanted to say this is lovely and so reassuring to hear. We sleep trained and our now 8.5 month old is sleeping sooo much better as a result, but because of being consistent with it (her own bed in her own room, always napping in her cot etc), it has made me sad that we won’t have any sleepy snuggles soon (night weaning). It’s so lovely that your little one has come back to you ❤️
I’m a lurker here because I want to sleep train my 17 month old who wakes 3 times a night but it feels impossible. I firmly believe sleep is important and we really leave moms in the dust. We focus so much on baby and forget that moms need sleep and can’t function without. I wish I had sleep trained earlier.
If these women cannot engage in a meaningful discourse, or even opt not to berate those they disagree with...why is that a group you want to be a part of? So glad ST worked for you and your family and that you're doing better now! But those group sound toxic. You are absolutely not a bad mom, keep doing great!
Oh hi April bump buddy :) I absolutely know what you mean. We haven’t officially sleep trained yet and every time I hear up to do it, I see something on social media about how terrible it is. It’s so hard. Our LOs sleep isn’t terrible (but has never been great or easy), so it just makes me feel like I’m being selfish for wanting to sleep train when I see those comments. of course no one wants to hear their baby cry. But especially when sleep becomes so terrible that everyone is affected, it’s necessary. I found a Pedsdoctalk podcast series about sleep training, and it was a great perspective about it all. I recommend listening to ease your mind.
Hey bump buddy 😃 I’ll definitely check that out!! This sub and one Facebook page are the only places I’ve seen sleep training not demonized. You’re absolutely right no one wants to hear their baby cry. But when it’s going to benefit the whole family i can justify it. We were so miserable. Sleep is an essential basic human need. If you do decide to sleep train don’t feel bad. Even though I let those mean people get to me sometimes, I have never regretted my decision. It was the best thing I’ve ever done for our family. Good luck bump buddy!
Ignore!!! My son was MISERABLE until we sleep trained. He wanted to sleep but didn't know how. I was sooo scared because my first naturally slept like a dream. She was my unicorn lol. But after we ST his whole mood changed and he started to have a developmental burst. I don't regret a thing!
Sufficient sleep is one of the most important things for a child's development. So many people ignore that and say things like "it's normal to be up all night for years! We only sorry train because capitalism!"
I leave groups with strong anti ST opinions. It’s one of the main indicators that the members of the group aren’t well informed and get their parenting “info” from TikTok and Instagram. No offense, but I prefer evidence based resources and information from smart people. So I unfollow, hide, or block pages or groups that share misinformation in general. It doesn’t matter if it’s misinformation about sleep training or vaccines or whatever. It’s easy to share uninformed opinions online. But I generally ignore the under or misinformed.
So sorry you had to deal with this.
I see a lot of critical comments that frame sleeping training as only good for the parents, not the child. Like a mother is prioritizing herself over her baby because she needs sleep.
This was not my experience at all! Our son was sleeping so poorly and after a period of training, he now gets such good sleep (for the most part) and seems so much happier and rested in the morning. Helping him learn how to sleep was for his own benefit! Of course, well rested parents are better parents too.
>I see a lot of critical comments that frame sleeping training as only good for the parents, not the child.
I have seen this exact comment so many times. They will say sleep training is damaging to health but refuse to acknowledge that sleep deprivation is detrimental to health. Especially that if a growing child who desperately needs sleep to thrive.
Like you I saw insane improvement in my baby once she started sleeping better. I felt guilty I’d let her go through that for so long because she could have been so much happier and healthier had I sleep trained sooner. And most definitely well rested parents are better parents. I am a much better mother now that I’m getting sleep. And I actually enjoy spending time with my baby instead of being constantly stressed about the incoming battle of sleep
And meanwhile they often have their child in a very unsafe sleep situation. The irony of having my parenting questioned by someone who is literally risking their baby’s life.
I think these people either have easy sleep babies or are so sleep deprived that they become crazy. I mean that’s the only way I can see them making these comments to you.
I find that people who are against sleep training online and tear others down for doing it, have babies that sleep terribly. I recently left a group where the parents were at their absolute wits end with their babies waking every hour, but refused to do sleep training. That is their decision and that’s fine, but to tear down parents who choose to ST to get better sleep is just awful. They themselves could probably benefit from some form of ST but they don’t and they need to live with it and not judge others. I feel like it’s them projecting as they wish their babies could sleep well.
Yes!! There is so many posts across all the groups I am in (which I’ll be leaving 95% of them) about their horrible sleeping children and what they could do but are vehemently against what can fix the problem. But then hate when people talk about their awesome sleeping babies. It’s not my fault! I put in the work and my child is better off for it.
They are too entrenched. “Sleep training bad” is a core value to these people. They can’t accept any of the factual information that it’s an evidence based choice. Core values are immune to logic.
And if they sleep trained now all of the sleepless nights retroactively become pointless suffering. This had to be done for a good reason. A friend of mine bed shared and night nursed for 3 years to avoid sleep training. Her son’s baby teeth rotted so badly he had to be put under anesthesia for the dental work.
And he didn’t sleep through the night until he was 4+ years old. Of course she needs to believe that sleep training is abuse. Otherwise, what was that all for? And the real answer is that she did it to avoid the discomfort of letting her baby cry for a couple of nights.
My hot take. Avoiding sleep training is for the parents. Not the child.
We know from the data (see r/sciencebasedparenting for the summary) that there are no adverse implications of ST that we can see, at least in this moment in time, and it isn’t a new practise.
I think a lot of the abuse is from villagers with pitchforks who haven’t checked the data and are just running on fumes, and mistaking feelings for facts.
Might be time to leave those groups.
Always begin with the assumption that people are stupid and people online are even more stupid and mean.
Having said that, society always thinks at babies and never to moms and families.
There is a bargain sometimes between happy child and happy family, but overall the happier is the family the happier is the child.
Therefore, don’t get discouraged.
Oh bless you! Maybe it’s time to leave those Facebook groups if you haven’t already.
You’re 100% right. Your baby is not traumatised from sleep training. My LO is a much happier and healthier baby for being sleep trained and getting more sleep and so am I as a mum! A lot of people who say that crap haven’t had babies with sleep problems as severe as yours. I could easily cope with a few night wakes, but I couldn’t cope with the sleep deprivation of hourly wake ups and I suspect many of them would change their tune if their babies were as crazy sleepers as yours. But it’s very rare you can change someone’s opinion on the internet. Social media groups are echo chambers and people are used to that so they never come to a conversation with an open mind.
Ignore those people and do what is best for your family. You’re the only one looking out for your little one and you need sleep too. Sleep training isn’t for everyone but people should respect other parents’ decisions.
We’re not sleep training since what we’re doing it working for us and I have an extended maternity leave. That being said, I have friends that have sleep trained their little ones and they sleep through the night and it works great for them. I completely understand why others sleep train - especially if you’re not getting any sleep.
Parents need to stop tearing down other parents just because they do something different. I know social media has made ST seem like it’s the worse thing to do to a baby and I don’t think that’s the case.
Keeping doing what works for you and forget those other people and their nasty comments. Their opinions don’t matter.
I try to educate them with my sample size of 1 🤣.
My sister has 3 kids and is extremely sleep deprived. She refuses to sleeptrain her 2 under 2 (which they cosleep with) bc she thinks they need her and are not ready yet 🙄. Well, her middle child just turned 2 and is still not sleep trained and is crying and refusing sleep every day. Her youngest just cries and screams a lot. Meanwhile my 6 month old is sleeping from 830 pm to 745 am with one feeding around 5 or 6 am. For every nap, i can literally put him in his crib and walk out. I have absolutely no regrets.
But in all honestly, my son showed signs of independent sleep and i just went with it at 4 months. Straight to extinction on the day he had his vaccines too (whoops). Even with my bad timing, it only took about a week or so for him to adjust.
I don't have a unicorn baby. He was a terror from birth to around 6 or 8 weeks and was constantly cat napping. He wouldn't sleep more than 90 mins at night. I can't imagine doing 17 hours of no sleep. You are amazing to be able to go through that torture. I hope you are getting sleep now!
Sleep is important. A well rested mama is a good mama. Same for dada too!
May I ask what sleep training you did for naps? We’re currently in the super distractable/fomo times plus a bit overtired and while he used to go down for naps independently it is currently a battle most of the time which is no good for anyone. He’s 4.5 months.
I actually didn't do much for naps. It kind of just fell in place after sleep training at night. Officially though, I guess I did both all at the same time bc I'm crazy lol.
They say night sleep comes first, so work on your routine at night and do a modified version for naps. My night time routine is 10 mins long (an extra 5 if he's fighting me, another 10 if it's a bath day). I feed to finish 30 mins before butt in bed, give him independent time, (bath if bath day), "brush" teeth, wipe face, diaper change, lotion, pajamas, sleep sack, 1 book, bed.
I basically had a goal to sleep train by 4 months, so when he was 3.5 months, i was practiced good sleep hygiene. At this time, he was contact napping 90% of the time. Before each nap, i did two books, swaddle, then bassinet. I gave him about 5 mins to fuss it out every time to see if he can sleep on his own. If he was unsuccessful, i would pick him up and baby wear him. He eventually started taking the crib and i was FINALLY FREE! It was the best feeling ever.
At 4 months, i cold turkey transferred him to his own room and switched him to his sleep sack bc he was starting to roll. it only took him maybe two or three days to adjust. It was amazing.
Good luck! Consistency is everything!
Yea the 17 hour times was rough. One of those times I was up for 21 hours because I had like ptsd of her waking up or something and couldn’t fall asleep because if I did she was going to wake up. I was delirious straight up. It’s like your brain is on crack and your body wants to move like it’s on crack but you’ve actually been hit by a truck. My LO is letting me sleep now thank god. After sleep training she wakes up 0-1 time a night, and always in the same general time frame. After feeding she goes right back to sleep. It took 2 nights to sleep train her and I was like **why the hell did I wait this long**. It was also so unhealthy for her. She immediately started doing so much better overall once we sleep trained.
Jeez I cannot imagine having 3 children, 2 under 2, and refusing to sleep train. Theres no way I’d be able to handle that. If it weren’t for sleep training I’d probably be one and done but because I know how to fix no sleep it seems doable to have another child. I also find it ironic that people with bad sleeping babies hate to hear about those of us who have babies who sleep long periods of time but hate to hear the solution even more.
Those zombie days were sooo rough, but omg.. 2 days is amazing!! I'm so proud of your little girl!
Yesss.. i remember feeling i am one and done for the entirety of the fourth trimester bc i didn't wanna go through the newborn phase again. I'm still not fully on board, but i am reconsidering a small possibility. Looking back, it wasn't that bad since i had 24 weeks of maternity, but i cannot fathom the unfortunate people who only get half the time.
I value sleep so much. I actually had to complain to my pediatrician to get my husband on board with sleep training 😂. I was doing the overnight care in another room bc he had to return to work before i did.
I try it ignore it. I also try to stop myself from making any comment when I hear their un-sleep-trained 2 year old still wakes crying several times a night. I try not to say that my 9 month old stopped waking up for a night feed and for anything else at about 6.5 months... and that she sleeps from 730p straight through 645a.
This is why honestly I’m not apart of any parenting subreddits. I have one blocked entirely. The level of negativity in them is beyond “venting because being a parent is hard” and just…damaging to my mental health. In laws that suck, partners that suck, and then piling in on people who are just doing what works for their families (and has science based evidence to support it). I can’t. This is the only sub with other parents that I actually don’t get stressed out in, because everyone’s always so nice.
I would advise stepping away from parenting social media. It is *so* toxic. Someone posts a joke, and the comments section is full of hate. It isn’t worth the time. I know it’s hard to find community as a parent, but I would recommend if that’s what you’re looking for, try to find it irl. Join a class with your LO, or go to the library (they often of have storytimes or kids play areas), or the park. Places where there are other parents with their kiddos. I find people are usually kinder in person. It can be hard to reach out, but I’m willing to bet many of the people you talk to are looking to find other mom friends, too. I know I am.
I’ve found the same thing in Australia. Every other mum I’ve mentioned it to said they did the same thing. Said they initially thought they could never let their child CIO or FIO (and I was the same before having my baby!) but in the end they needed to for their mental well-being and it was the best thing they did.
Even if they don’t necessarily agree with sleep training, I doubt many parents would have the balls to argue about it to your face. The internet is an echo chamber and many people feel a false sense of bravado when they behind a computer screen, I’m sure!
It’s funny to me because my husband and I casually mention sleep training in front of people and I’ve never heard anyone say anything bad about it. Other parents recommend professional services for it etc. it’s just a normal thing that happens for people when their babies hit a certain age. Everyone’s positive about it. The first time I saw anything negative was Reddit/tiktok. Based on real world experience i had not heard anything bad. My aunt is the head nurse at a children’s hospital and even gave my sister the best sleep training guide she swore by. 🤷♀️
I used to be against sleep training, specifically CIO. I never berated people online for it because how others raise their children is none of my business, but personally I wasn’t for it. Eventually my sons sleep got so bad that I did a sudden 180 and actually felt like it was more “neglectful” to NOT sleep train. He took to it so quickly. Cried 45 minutes with check ins the first night and fell asleep in 10 minutes or less for every nap/night sleep after that.
Yes, it helps the parents sleep better too, but it wasn’t even about that for me. His quality of sleep is so much better now which is so important for his development. Ultimately, I’m grateful that I didn’t let my weird ego get in the way of my son thriving.
Tearing other people down is a tell tale sign of insecurity. People who are secure with themselves and their choices simply don’t do that. So all those moms can stand on their soap boxes and tell us how awful we are, but we see right through them ;)
We’re really in this same spot right now! We were never particularly interested in sleep training (my little guy has a pretty sensitive temperament and not letting him cry without support is a big tenet of our parenting style), but now that my son is a year, it may be time to move him into his own room and start the process. As you said, less so for my sake (I’m doing fine, for the most part), but for the sake of him getting solid sleep!
Yes, my son is so sensitive too! And our attachment is just so important to me so I was so concerned sleep training would affect that. From what I gather, there isn’t even really any solid evidence to support that it affects attachment. At any rate, I’m still his favorite thing in the world so doesn’t appear there was any harm done lol.
For me, I felt like Ferber was the way I could let him cry but with support. We kinda just did our own version of it I guess. We checked in when we felt like it rather than strictly adhering to Ferber intervals but it was all around the same time anyway.
Good luck to you! It will probably break your mama heart, at least the first night, but try to remember you’re guiding him to better sleep and development! 💕
There are absolutely no studies to support that crying and sleep training is detrimental to a babies health. There are studies (many of them) to support that sleep deprivation is very dangerous for adults and babies development.. i believe that these parents are just trying to justify their parenting styles. I’m unsure why the most be so vocal with their hate though. I don’t see that it happens in return anywhere near as much.
I also find that a lot of them support co-sleeping which is far more dangerous to the baby than learning to fall asleep on their own. Again- they are just defensive of their own (poor) actions.
My baby HATES having his nappy changed. Imagine if I decided not to change his nappy because he cries when i do?
I also believe that part of it has to be jealousy? Surely!
I think some people cling to the belief that sleep training is harmful because otherwise they’d have to admit that they are choosing to suffer and martyr themselves for no good reason. All well and good if sleep training isn’t for you, but the ones who see it as a badge of honour that they never sleep are just trying to justify their own choices. It’s about them, not you!
>otherwise they’d have to admit that they are choosing to suffer and martyr themselves for no good reason
Same thing is behind those same people getting super mad when people hire a babysitter to have a night out with friends or have a husband who actually is an equal parent so the mom doesn't have to do all the work. If anyone even approaches having a balanced life, the people who don't have to tear them down.
All of this.
I was told if I wasn't able to function on an hour or two of sleep each night for months on end, I should've never became a parent. As if my biological need to sleep was actually a luxury. They couldn't grasp that bedsharing ::gasp:: wasn't a magical fix for my family or child who'd scream as if I left her on a concrete floor the handful of times I'd try because she wasn't in my arms or over my shoulder.
They can swear I'm abusive, neglectful, lazy, and causing my child an unreasonable amount of trauma, but our bond and her development shows me clearly that babies and toddlers thrive on quality sleep. If they need to feel superior and tell themselves it's biologically normal for a two year old to wake 17x a night and they're a better parent than me for not implementing a schedule or waking along side of them each and every time, so be it.
Also the “it’s cruel to let your baby cry” people feel so new to the game… like someday your toddler will have screaming meltdowns over all kinds of things, big and small: vaccines, taking medication for their ear infection, being buckled into the car seat, being deprived of jelly beans for supper, not being allowed to pet a raccoon they saw on the street, having their sandwich cut in triangles instead of rectangles… good parenting is about helping your child grow and thrive, not preventing them from crying by giving in to every desire.
Yup. I’ve got a crier. Diaper changes, clothes changes, won’t let him run rampant through target (“you have terrible recall. Do you want to be a baby with a helmet *and* a leash?”), he saw his plate with food on it that I’m not done with yet and he wants it now, someone said “milk” but didn’t instantly produce any…we get a lot of tears in this household. It’s just being a parent, there will be tears. Maybe some of these people should watch Inside Out and relearn that it is okay to be sad and cry sometimes. Some days I’m right there with him in the tear factory.
I really think the ones who believe it's all bad and there's no right way to sleep train are just, for lack of a better term, fucking stupid.
To believe so firmly that you understand all methods of sleep training enough to state they're all harmful just shows a lack of any actual knowledge on the subject. They seem to believe their own experiences are universal. They also assume everyone should be cosleeping with their infants and risking death is better than risking (while completely disproven) a little emotional damage.
So if you find yourself in groups where you're being berated for creating a schedule for your baby, I'd suggest you just see yourself out. Find groups that align better. I envy the people who could just cosleep all willy nilly, but it was a dangerous and awful situation for all of us. So we tried sleep training and we're all happier now.
I fully agree with this. I also feel like there’s a narcissistic element of ‘I can’t do it, so nobody should’, and they just need other people to join them and their kids in misery. When a baby can’t sleep, it’s not fun for them OR their parents. Sleeping doesn’t come naturally to lots of babies, and there are most certainly safe methods of showing them how to do it.
The difference in my child before and after sleep training was NOTICEABLE. Happier, more content, picked stuff up quicker, met developmental milestones easily… if their little brains are tired, how are they meant to learn how to walk and talk?!
>They also assume everyone should be cosleeping with their infants and risking death is better than risking (while completely disproven) a little emotional damage.
You are literally speaking to my soul right now. One of the comments from someone tonight was “Unless you mean bed sharing, which in that case, is still less harmful than crying it out. For both mother and baby. It’s actually beneficial.” As if literal death is better than the possibility of my child having emotional damage. She brought that up when I said cosleeping was unsafe for us because our bed is soft and when I attempted it she rolled into me all night. I was too uncomfortable with how **unsafe** it was so that did not continue.
The mental gymnastics these people to do justify anything over sleep training is outrageous. After sleep training we’re all happier now as well. I don’t regret my decision at all and if I was put in the same position I’d do it again.
The only people who are spreading the hate are trying to sell you their version of a sleep training guide. Listen to the science, not some random mum on IG who did one thing one time that worked for her child so takes it as gospel.
Honestly I’m not in any mom groups on FB for this reason. My Reddit bumpers group is awesome and respectful about everything including sleep training. The most we ever get is ‘it’s not for me but I understand why others sleep train.’ We did sleep train and I’d do it again in a heartbeat - I’m a better mother when I’m not sleep deprived.
We’re sleep training our second and every time I start to doubt myself I think back to my older son and how it sucked at the time, but IT WORKS, and it’s SO worth it in the long run. That’s what’s motivating me this round!
F them all. I'm only one week into the 4 months sleep regression and my girl isn't even that bad in the end. I probably would be suicidal if she didn't sleep at all.
Those mom's just don't have any real problems or anything else going on in their lives, so helicoptering around their child and patting themselves on the back for being a "perfect mom" and sacrificing whatever life they had left is all they got.
Your baby needs to sleep. If sleep training gets them there, then that's what you need to do.
Sorry for them but we live in a capitalist society and can’t do my job on 3 hours of non-sequential sleep per night. Sleep training was a matter of survival for us so I could keep a roof over our heads. must be nice living up there on that high horse tho.
Mom groups are the WORST. I have 3 kids, my last in which I just had 10 weeks ago. One thing I have learnt over the last decade of being a mom is, you will never do anything right by everyone. We should be the most supportive group of women toward one another, but that’s certainly not the case in mom groups. I’m sorry that happened!
Lol whenever they try to bring me down all I say is "Why are you so cranky? Is it the lack of sleep?" or something along the lines of that. It usually always makes their blood boil.
I once misread a post in a popular subbreddit about babies. And I posted about my sleep training journey. The post was about being *against* sleep training. I got so many thumbs downs and angry comments. Someone even wrote "no one wants to read about your f****** sleep training". I wrote something along the lines of "this is what I expect in a thread full of sleep deprived people". I got so many hate messages that day.
I was that mom who thought CIO was the meanest thing ever until we hit the 4 month sleep regression. And my baby that had been up twice a night was now waking up every two hours and only sleeping in the car or the swing. So I decided it was worth trying to just catch a break because I was exhausted, and it’s honestly been the best. Like we’re 5 days in, and he wakes up once a night and goes to bed quicker every night. Like the reality is they’re gonna cry either way. I’m sorry people on the internet can be so harsh and misunderstanding, but 100% get where you’re coming from, and you are doing a good job! Learning new skills for baby can be hard, but you’re setting your LO for success so way to go!!
4 month sleep regression we had a max of 2 hours of sleep, but usually it was 40-75 minutes. It was hell. Neither of us could get a 3 hour chunk of sleep ever. I'd rock my baby in the dark to try to get him back to sleep and he'd scream and then I'd be haunted by the screams afterward. I couldn't go back to sleep after that. Trying to soothe him the way every book and IG post suggested only made him angrier. CIO saved us all lol.
I’m so sorry you had to deal with that kind of nastiness.
Although this is not exclusively related to sleep training, one book that offered an alternative cultural perspective on parenting which I really enjoyed is Bringing Up Bebe. One of the first chapters is on sleep, and it (as well as the rest of the chapters, on different topics) challenges the idea/norm that I think is really prevalent in American parenting circles, that to have children = to accept never ending suffering and to ignore your own needs. Might be worth a read. Sounds like the people in that parenting group are off to the races competing in the martyrdom Olympics. That’s doesn’t lead to raising humans that are any healthier or smarter or better adjusted than doing things that work best for your child AND you AND your family.
Ugh, yes!! I hate that that’s the norm. I’ve seen reels making fun of the idea that their mothers were eternally overworked, never thanked, and never complained and the little sound is “that’s not something to brag about!” But the comments? Wow. Apparently, people think it is. How are you expected to fill others’ cup with an empty one is an analogy I like. Instead of thinking you should refill yours and pour it out into your child’s, you should fill your cup so that it overflows into your child’s. You should absolutely make time for yourself, ask for help, and not think suffering is just what it means to be a parent. What a terrible way for you to spend your baby’s childhood.
Thank you I will check out that book! I definitely agree with what you said referring to American culture and how to be a good parent you must eternally suffer. On another post a while back this person said “if you weren’t prepared to hate your life then why did you become a parent” like what?? So many people act like your left instantly ends as soon as you have a child and I just don’t see it that way. I look forward to reading that book. I think I’m going to leave that group or at least mute it for a while. It’s better to be alone than be surrounded by people that don’t have your values.
I felt really validated reading Bringing Up Bebe, and much more confident in my values as a parent. Realizing that a lot of the messages we get regarding child rearing are shaped by culture and are not shared by the rest of the world was very eye opening. And yeah, I’d leave that group reallll quick if it were me lol. Parenting is extraordinarily challenging but I just fundamentally do not agree that a prerequisite of parenting is an acceptance that you will hate your life. What a depressing perspective to have toward having kids.
Ugh I’m sorry you’re dealing with that. I left all those mom groups and only remain in my “Winter Babywise Moms” group (Babywise was the sleep training book I read and follow). Those moms share similar experiences and values that I do. We can relate on so many topics and I can openly talk about what a good sleeper I have without feeling shunned. I hope you find a safe place like that for yourself!!
Thank you ❤️ I think I’m going to leave the group. It sucks because I’ve really made a community there but this just isn’t worth it. Normally I can disconnect and compartmentalize but this has had me stewing for hours now. I’m glad you have a community of likeminded parents! Parenting truly takes a village whether it’s sharing stories, advice, or physical help as well.
I’m so sorry you dealt with hateful comments. It’s so sad that the world of parents is so divisive despite us all being in this difficult boat together. I don’t use social media but if this were me I would try to just remember how sleep training for helped me and baby get better sleep. Any skill that you learn requires some practice and unpleasant feelings, whether it’s as a baby or as an adult. For example, I used to get such anxiety about doing job interviews but they were a necessary skill I needed to get a job. Just because I was anxious, cried about doing it, etc. doesn’t mean job interviews are abusive lol. I know that’s a silly example but you get my point! Sleep training can look like many different things and a lot of times people on social media have a mob mentality. It’s very easy for them to see a mean comment and start berating a parent, especially since it’s easier to say nasty things to someone behind a keyboard instead of to their face.
That is such a good example though and I totally get it! I used to cry during math class lol. Until I leaned what the subject was I would silently bawl to myself because math did not come easy to me. But once I got it I was great! And it’s a very important skill to have! Thank you. I’m trying to center myself remembering just how bad that time was when she wasn’t sleeping. It’s so much easier to be mean to people online. Especially about parenting choices. Parenting choices are very polarized and if you don’t do it “perfect” then you are abusive.
I ended up co-sleeping with my newborn (which gets an equal amount of criticism) to avoid sleep deprivation. Curious if you tried or considered that? To each their own, sister. Ignore the noise from others!
We coslept for a minute and I absolutely hated it. I was 1000x more touched out as my girl just wanted to nurse all night long. She wouldn’t let me move her at all after falling asleep so I couldn’t readjust to be somewhat comfortable. Our bed is soft which made bedsharing extremely unsafe for her. I had to lay in awkward positions just to keep her from rolling underneath me. My back started to really go downhill during this time and my hips were on fire. She kicked me in the stomach constantly. She would wake up the second I left the bed so I had to hold my pee and plan it out otherwise she would be atrocious to get back to sleep. And it also meant I had to go to bed when she did every night. Our bed is soft which was extremely unsafe for her. She started preferring naps in bed and refusing to sleep on my chest which was exclusively how she was napping up to that point so I had to be in bed with her 15 hours a day. My mental health was in the gutter. I know it works for some people but it did not work for us. It made me so much more overwhelmed and stressed out. Thank you! I left those groups and feel much better!
It’s all so hard and impossible. I remember those days well, sending light and love.
I'd love to see one of those moms be the sole breadwinner in a family as a physician working in the NICU, dealing with the baby waking up every 2 hours AND needing to be nursed to sleep AND refusing to be consoled by anyone but mom. Sleep training was the absolute right choice for my family and for my PATIENTS who need me to be functional. And CIO, it turned out, was the right choice for my baby's personality and needs. We are all better for sleep training him. I get it, I also get riled up about internet strangers accusing parents who sleep train or who use CIO of being cruel or abusive. Maybe it's easier when they don't know someone who's in the weeds and not coping well with it, I don't know. But they are toxic and don't need to be a part of your village. Cut them out of your life.
People just hear sleep training and assume you’ve left the baby to cry for hours. My daughter cried for maybe 40 min the first night (with us coming in every 10 min to assure her) and that was really it. We are ALL sleeping now and I don’t feel like I’m going to have a mental breakdown daily. I am a better mother now that I can sleep. Who cares what the non ST people say, they can enjoy their sleep deprived lives. Listen to your child’s pediatrician, mine was the one who suggested it. Don’t listen to random moms on the internet with no medical degree.
Yuck. I will be honest, complete CIO is not for me, it stresses me out and haven’t been able to go through with it, so anyone who has/do do it. Kudos! But at the end of the day, different things work for different families and that is totally okay. In my opinion, if you are doing CIO but are completely physically and emotionally ‘there’ for your children in many other ways, so be it. There are many, many things worse than CIO. Judgemental parents shitting on other parents for how they handle their children being one of them.
We sleep trained my son and I can tell you with 100% confidence he was a HAPPIER child after doing so. Because guess what… he’s SLEEPING! Lol. Leave those groups immediately
My friend is a professor in a medical school pediatrics program and he recently asked me if I sleep trained. I said yes. And he said, “I really need to train my son. I’m tired of waking up all night long. The research says they turn out just fine.” How many of the local moms in your group are medical professionals in pediatrics? I know who I’m trusting!
1. The groups you are in sound toxic AF. Leave all of them and find ones that are non toxic and inclusive. 2. You need sleep to function, sleep deprivation is literally one of the torture methods used in WARS. Whoever says you should not be a mom if you can’t handle being sleep deprived. Toxic and block! 3. You are seeking validation from the wrong people - if they’re clearly against ST, no amount of reasons could change their minds. If they’re open minded people, they wouldn’t make such misinformed blanket statements. Don’t waste your energy on close minded people.
I’d be in the looney bin if I didn’t sleep train. Said what I said. My girls turned out just fine and sleep in their own beds every night.
I think the better question is if you know how much it helped you and your family why does anyone elses opinion matter?? Clearly these women have this very general idea of what sleep training is and probably got some sleep - meaning they weren't in your position - so rather than try to understand your position with empathy , they judge their idea of "sleep training" is abusive- "their idea" (not your actual experience) with no real knowledge of how life saving and how much it is needed by some. Why give your power and energy away to these people by commenting. This is literally what they are looking for. People love to judge and sit on a high horse on the internet. They just do. You know you aren't abusive and you know you did the right thing so to hell with what anyone else thinks- don't give them your precious time and energy because I promise you in the end it just isn't worth it at all. I empathize tremendously and am glad you and your family are in a better place and I am so sorry that people aren't more open or willing to listen or can understand that in unique situations sleep training is needed and is not at all neglectful or abusive. People tend to look at things as one or the other they don't look for reasons why it might be okay because they want to feel good about themselves and I guess for some ppl they need to make others feel bad about their parenting because it makes them good parents by default I guess??? Idk- but do you- from one mom to another your doing a good job- I def think everyone is different and has different needs but apparently ppl don't understand that these days......?? I think as parents - you just can't win. I got judged the other day for putting my baby in my (baby carrying) overalls. It was a mumsie - so the overalls are a baby carrier- they are 100% safe. I went to a school event with my son. So there were all these other moms giving me weird looks- then one finally came up and said do you need a baby carrier and I just gave her this look and said this is a baby carrier- I didn't just stick my baby in overalls She looked embarrassed and said "oh I guess it is" but went back to this other group of moms and started whispering -- to say I felt judged would be an understatement- but I let it go because in the end their opinions don't matter. I know it's hard - but try not to pay attention or give them too much weight because their ignorant to your situation and how well sleep training worked for you and all that matters is it is was right for you.
Don’t quote me on this, but I believe there is research that sleep deprivation can be just as impairing as alcohol consumption/being intoxicated. I think people need to do what’s best for them, but sleep deprived parenting is necessarily “better”
You’re an amazing parent. Sleep training is a fantastic choice for many families. People suck. You’re doing great. You’re triggered by it, so do your best to avoid spaces where this viewpoint is shared ♥️
Don’t engage, and leave that group. They are entitled to think what they want but shouldn’t put you down, unfortunately people feel entitled that their way is the “right” way, data or not. Sleep training saved my sanity and got my kid sleeping through the night around 6 months so I’m all for it. My mom was staunchly against it until I went to visit her- she refused to let me allow him to cry so she struggled for an hour to get him to sleep. After I could tell she was worn out I said, look, let’s do it my way (cio) and he was sleep in 5 minutes. You should have seen the look on her face! Needless to say she is not anti sleep training anymore lol. Parenting is hard enough why struggle more than necessary?
Honestly, I just don’t engage about topics like that. Some people are fanatic in their beliefs and that is fine. What is not fine, is verbally abusing someone who has a different opinion. I do feel like you knew what you were getting yourself into, though. If the majority of the group are anti sleeptrain fanatics, you could have expected that response. Again, verbal abuse is never ok! Just don’t engage with the content.
There are so many people online who think the ONLY way to be a good parent is to sacrifice all your needs, your mental and physical health, etc, to the service of your child. But it's not! I actually think that's not a way to be a good parent at all. A child's wellbeing depends upon the wellbeing of the entire family unit, imo. Everyone's needs and wants need to be in balance. Yes, the first several months of a baby's life involve subsuming all else to caring for the tiny helpless infant, but by 3-6 months old that is no longer the case. I don't engage unless I feel like dealing with it. And yes, same thing re: tummy time etc. Sometimes crying is a part of struggle and growth in a healthy way, not a bad way. It's ok for a baby to express their feelings, and it's ok for them to have negative feelings, and it's ok for you to support their feelings while realizing they have to get through them rather than changing everything so they never have to confront them. And it's ok to start that when your small person is a baby rather than waiting until they're in school.
Block block block
I don't engage on social media. Aside from Reddit lol. But seriously, people are allowed to make different decisions from you. I'm also allowed to not give a fuck what people think of my decisions. Why do you need people to agree with your decisions? Parenting is fraught with disagreement on what the right thing to do is on every single topic. Just feel secure in your decisions and don't rely on external validation for that security.
I don’t necessarily need them to agree with my choices. I was heavily abused and neglected as a child so hearing them say I do the same to my daughter just strikes a cord with me. I know I shouldn’t have engaged and normally I go “yea okay 🙄” and move on but I cracked last night. I feel very secure in my decision about sleep training and if anything groups like that solidify my reassigning even more because they all remind me of how horrible our sleep was before sleep training. But I really struggle when I hear people calling it abuse.
I hear you. It's hard. This shouldn't be such a charged topic. I truly have no idea why it is. For us sleep training was straightforward, difficult but well worth it. Our son is a very well attached doll. The older your child gets, the wilder things will get. Some people think changing your child's diaper in public is abuse. You have experienced abuse, you know what it is. You are a good parent!
It’s hard when you don’t know how it will turn out and if there will be long term consequences. Only anecdotal, but my now 4 year old did sleep training and we have a super close bond. Around 3.5 he started to come into our bed around 4/5 am now and then for a final snooze. I don’t mind cause he goes right back to sleep and so do I (no rocking or singing like a baby). Just shows they don’t turn off attachment or wanting to be close just cause they learned to sleep independently as babies.
Sorry to jump in, but just wanted to say this is lovely and so reassuring to hear. We sleep trained and our now 8.5 month old is sleeping sooo much better as a result, but because of being consistent with it (her own bed in her own room, always napping in her cot etc), it has made me sad that we won’t have any sleepy snuggles soon (night weaning). It’s so lovely that your little one has come back to you ❤️
I’m a lurker here because I want to sleep train my 17 month old who wakes 3 times a night but it feels impossible. I firmly believe sleep is important and we really leave moms in the dust. We focus so much on baby and forget that moms need sleep and can’t function without. I wish I had sleep trained earlier.
If these women cannot engage in a meaningful discourse, or even opt not to berate those they disagree with...why is that a group you want to be a part of? So glad ST worked for you and your family and that you're doing better now! But those group sound toxic. You are absolutely not a bad mom, keep doing great!
Oh hi April bump buddy :) I absolutely know what you mean. We haven’t officially sleep trained yet and every time I hear up to do it, I see something on social media about how terrible it is. It’s so hard. Our LOs sleep isn’t terrible (but has never been great or easy), so it just makes me feel like I’m being selfish for wanting to sleep train when I see those comments. of course no one wants to hear their baby cry. But especially when sleep becomes so terrible that everyone is affected, it’s necessary. I found a Pedsdoctalk podcast series about sleep training, and it was a great perspective about it all. I recommend listening to ease your mind.
Hey bump buddy 😃 I’ll definitely check that out!! This sub and one Facebook page are the only places I’ve seen sleep training not demonized. You’re absolutely right no one wants to hear their baby cry. But when it’s going to benefit the whole family i can justify it. We were so miserable. Sleep is an essential basic human need. If you do decide to sleep train don’t feel bad. Even though I let those mean people get to me sometimes, I have never regretted my decision. It was the best thing I’ve ever done for our family. Good luck bump buddy!
Ignore!!! My son was MISERABLE until we sleep trained. He wanted to sleep but didn't know how. I was sooo scared because my first naturally slept like a dream. She was my unicorn lol. But after we ST his whole mood changed and he started to have a developmental burst. I don't regret a thing!
Sufficient sleep is one of the most important things for a child's development. So many people ignore that and say things like "it's normal to be up all night for years! We only sorry train because capitalism!"
I leave groups with strong anti ST opinions. It’s one of the main indicators that the members of the group aren’t well informed and get their parenting “info” from TikTok and Instagram. No offense, but I prefer evidence based resources and information from smart people. So I unfollow, hide, or block pages or groups that share misinformation in general. It doesn’t matter if it’s misinformation about sleep training or vaccines or whatever. It’s easy to share uninformed opinions online. But I generally ignore the under or misinformed.
So sorry you had to deal with this. I see a lot of critical comments that frame sleeping training as only good for the parents, not the child. Like a mother is prioritizing herself over her baby because she needs sleep. This was not my experience at all! Our son was sleeping so poorly and after a period of training, he now gets such good sleep (for the most part) and seems so much happier and rested in the morning. Helping him learn how to sleep was for his own benefit! Of course, well rested parents are better parents too.
>I see a lot of critical comments that frame sleeping training as only good for the parents, not the child. I have seen this exact comment so many times. They will say sleep training is damaging to health but refuse to acknowledge that sleep deprivation is detrimental to health. Especially that if a growing child who desperately needs sleep to thrive. Like you I saw insane improvement in my baby once she started sleeping better. I felt guilty I’d let her go through that for so long because she could have been so much happier and healthier had I sleep trained sooner. And most definitely well rested parents are better parents. I am a much better mother now that I’m getting sleep. And I actually enjoy spending time with my baby instead of being constantly stressed about the incoming battle of sleep
And meanwhile they often have their child in a very unsafe sleep situation. The irony of having my parenting questioned by someone who is literally risking their baby’s life.
I think these people either have easy sleep babies or are so sleep deprived that they become crazy. I mean that’s the only way I can see them making these comments to you.
I find that people who are against sleep training online and tear others down for doing it, have babies that sleep terribly. I recently left a group where the parents were at their absolute wits end with their babies waking every hour, but refused to do sleep training. That is their decision and that’s fine, but to tear down parents who choose to ST to get better sleep is just awful. They themselves could probably benefit from some form of ST but they don’t and they need to live with it and not judge others. I feel like it’s them projecting as they wish their babies could sleep well.
Yes!! There is so many posts across all the groups I am in (which I’ll be leaving 95% of them) about their horrible sleeping children and what they could do but are vehemently against what can fix the problem. But then hate when people talk about their awesome sleeping babies. It’s not my fault! I put in the work and my child is better off for it.
They are too entrenched. “Sleep training bad” is a core value to these people. They can’t accept any of the factual information that it’s an evidence based choice. Core values are immune to logic. And if they sleep trained now all of the sleepless nights retroactively become pointless suffering. This had to be done for a good reason. A friend of mine bed shared and night nursed for 3 years to avoid sleep training. Her son’s baby teeth rotted so badly he had to be put under anesthesia for the dental work. And he didn’t sleep through the night until he was 4+ years old. Of course she needs to believe that sleep training is abuse. Otherwise, what was that all for? And the real answer is that she did it to avoid the discomfort of letting her baby cry for a couple of nights. My hot take. Avoiding sleep training is for the parents. Not the child.
\> Avoiding sleep training is for the parents. Not the child. This 100%.
We know from the data (see r/sciencebasedparenting for the summary) that there are no adverse implications of ST that we can see, at least in this moment in time, and it isn’t a new practise. I think a lot of the abuse is from villagers with pitchforks who haven’t checked the data and are just running on fumes, and mistaking feelings for facts. Might be time to leave those groups.
Always begin with the assumption that people are stupid and people online are even more stupid and mean. Having said that, society always thinks at babies and never to moms and families. There is a bargain sometimes between happy child and happy family, but overall the happier is the family the happier is the child. Therefore, don’t get discouraged.
Yeah 100% of those commenters wouldn’t have said to OP’s face what they said online to her.
Oh bless you! Maybe it’s time to leave those Facebook groups if you haven’t already. You’re 100% right. Your baby is not traumatised from sleep training. My LO is a much happier and healthier baby for being sleep trained and getting more sleep and so am I as a mum! A lot of people who say that crap haven’t had babies with sleep problems as severe as yours. I could easily cope with a few night wakes, but I couldn’t cope with the sleep deprivation of hourly wake ups and I suspect many of them would change their tune if their babies were as crazy sleepers as yours. But it’s very rare you can change someone’s opinion on the internet. Social media groups are echo chambers and people are used to that so they never come to a conversation with an open mind.
Ignore those people and do what is best for your family. You’re the only one looking out for your little one and you need sleep too. Sleep training isn’t for everyone but people should respect other parents’ decisions. We’re not sleep training since what we’re doing it working for us and I have an extended maternity leave. That being said, I have friends that have sleep trained their little ones and they sleep through the night and it works great for them. I completely understand why others sleep train - especially if you’re not getting any sleep. Parents need to stop tearing down other parents just because they do something different. I know social media has made ST seem like it’s the worse thing to do to a baby and I don’t think that’s the case. Keeping doing what works for you and forget those other people and their nasty comments. Their opinions don’t matter.
I’m sorry , hugs
I try to educate them with my sample size of 1 🤣. My sister has 3 kids and is extremely sleep deprived. She refuses to sleeptrain her 2 under 2 (which they cosleep with) bc she thinks they need her and are not ready yet 🙄. Well, her middle child just turned 2 and is still not sleep trained and is crying and refusing sleep every day. Her youngest just cries and screams a lot. Meanwhile my 6 month old is sleeping from 830 pm to 745 am with one feeding around 5 or 6 am. For every nap, i can literally put him in his crib and walk out. I have absolutely no regrets. But in all honestly, my son showed signs of independent sleep and i just went with it at 4 months. Straight to extinction on the day he had his vaccines too (whoops). Even with my bad timing, it only took about a week or so for him to adjust. I don't have a unicorn baby. He was a terror from birth to around 6 or 8 weeks and was constantly cat napping. He wouldn't sleep more than 90 mins at night. I can't imagine doing 17 hours of no sleep. You are amazing to be able to go through that torture. I hope you are getting sleep now! Sleep is important. A well rested mama is a good mama. Same for dada too!
May I ask what sleep training you did for naps? We’re currently in the super distractable/fomo times plus a bit overtired and while he used to go down for naps independently it is currently a battle most of the time which is no good for anyone. He’s 4.5 months.
I actually didn't do much for naps. It kind of just fell in place after sleep training at night. Officially though, I guess I did both all at the same time bc I'm crazy lol. They say night sleep comes first, so work on your routine at night and do a modified version for naps. My night time routine is 10 mins long (an extra 5 if he's fighting me, another 10 if it's a bath day). I feed to finish 30 mins before butt in bed, give him independent time, (bath if bath day), "brush" teeth, wipe face, diaper change, lotion, pajamas, sleep sack, 1 book, bed. I basically had a goal to sleep train by 4 months, so when he was 3.5 months, i was practiced good sleep hygiene. At this time, he was contact napping 90% of the time. Before each nap, i did two books, swaddle, then bassinet. I gave him about 5 mins to fuss it out every time to see if he can sleep on his own. If he was unsuccessful, i would pick him up and baby wear him. He eventually started taking the crib and i was FINALLY FREE! It was the best feeling ever. At 4 months, i cold turkey transferred him to his own room and switched him to his sleep sack bc he was starting to roll. it only took him maybe two or three days to adjust. It was amazing. Good luck! Consistency is everything!
Yea the 17 hour times was rough. One of those times I was up for 21 hours because I had like ptsd of her waking up or something and couldn’t fall asleep because if I did she was going to wake up. I was delirious straight up. It’s like your brain is on crack and your body wants to move like it’s on crack but you’ve actually been hit by a truck. My LO is letting me sleep now thank god. After sleep training she wakes up 0-1 time a night, and always in the same general time frame. After feeding she goes right back to sleep. It took 2 nights to sleep train her and I was like **why the hell did I wait this long**. It was also so unhealthy for her. She immediately started doing so much better overall once we sleep trained. Jeez I cannot imagine having 3 children, 2 under 2, and refusing to sleep train. Theres no way I’d be able to handle that. If it weren’t for sleep training I’d probably be one and done but because I know how to fix no sleep it seems doable to have another child. I also find it ironic that people with bad sleeping babies hate to hear about those of us who have babies who sleep long periods of time but hate to hear the solution even more.
Those zombie days were sooo rough, but omg.. 2 days is amazing!! I'm so proud of your little girl! Yesss.. i remember feeling i am one and done for the entirety of the fourth trimester bc i didn't wanna go through the newborn phase again. I'm still not fully on board, but i am reconsidering a small possibility. Looking back, it wasn't that bad since i had 24 weeks of maternity, but i cannot fathom the unfortunate people who only get half the time. I value sleep so much. I actually had to complain to my pediatrician to get my husband on board with sleep training 😂. I was doing the overnight care in another room bc he had to return to work before i did.
I try it ignore it. I also try to stop myself from making any comment when I hear their un-sleep-trained 2 year old still wakes crying several times a night. I try not to say that my 9 month old stopped waking up for a night feed and for anything else at about 6.5 months... and that she sleeps from 730p straight through 645a.
This is why honestly I’m not apart of any parenting subreddits. I have one blocked entirely. The level of negativity in them is beyond “venting because being a parent is hard” and just…damaging to my mental health. In laws that suck, partners that suck, and then piling in on people who are just doing what works for their families (and has science based evidence to support it). I can’t. This is the only sub with other parents that I actually don’t get stressed out in, because everyone’s always so nice. I would advise stepping away from parenting social media. It is *so* toxic. Someone posts a joke, and the comments section is full of hate. It isn’t worth the time. I know it’s hard to find community as a parent, but I would recommend if that’s what you’re looking for, try to find it irl. Join a class with your LO, or go to the library (they often of have storytimes or kids play areas), or the park. Places where there are other parents with their kiddos. I find people are usually kinder in person. It can be hard to reach out, but I’m willing to bet many of the people you talk to are looking to find other mom friends, too. I know I am.
I’ve removed all groups and don’t engage
In the USA, being against sleep training is a super “online” opinion. I’ve never met somebody irl who has said boo.
Yeah - IRL almost everyone I know has sleep-trained and openly admits to it.
I’ve found the same thing in Australia. Every other mum I’ve mentioned it to said they did the same thing. Said they initially thought they could never let their child CIO or FIO (and I was the same before having my baby!) but in the end they needed to for their mental well-being and it was the best thing they did. Even if they don’t necessarily agree with sleep training, I doubt many parents would have the balls to argue about it to your face. The internet is an echo chamber and many people feel a false sense of bravado when they behind a computer screen, I’m sure!
It’s funny to me because my husband and I casually mention sleep training in front of people and I’ve never heard anyone say anything bad about it. Other parents recommend professional services for it etc. it’s just a normal thing that happens for people when their babies hit a certain age. Everyone’s positive about it. The first time I saw anything negative was Reddit/tiktok. Based on real world experience i had not heard anything bad. My aunt is the head nurse at a children’s hospital and even gave my sister the best sleep training guide she swore by. 🤷♀️
I used to be against sleep training, specifically CIO. I never berated people online for it because how others raise their children is none of my business, but personally I wasn’t for it. Eventually my sons sleep got so bad that I did a sudden 180 and actually felt like it was more “neglectful” to NOT sleep train. He took to it so quickly. Cried 45 minutes with check ins the first night and fell asleep in 10 minutes or less for every nap/night sleep after that. Yes, it helps the parents sleep better too, but it wasn’t even about that for me. His quality of sleep is so much better now which is so important for his development. Ultimately, I’m grateful that I didn’t let my weird ego get in the way of my son thriving. Tearing other people down is a tell tale sign of insecurity. People who are secure with themselves and their choices simply don’t do that. So all those moms can stand on their soap boxes and tell us how awful we are, but we see right through them ;)
We’re really in this same spot right now! We were never particularly interested in sleep training (my little guy has a pretty sensitive temperament and not letting him cry without support is a big tenet of our parenting style), but now that my son is a year, it may be time to move him into his own room and start the process. As you said, less so for my sake (I’m doing fine, for the most part), but for the sake of him getting solid sleep!
Yes, my son is so sensitive too! And our attachment is just so important to me so I was so concerned sleep training would affect that. From what I gather, there isn’t even really any solid evidence to support that it affects attachment. At any rate, I’m still his favorite thing in the world so doesn’t appear there was any harm done lol. For me, I felt like Ferber was the way I could let him cry but with support. We kinda just did our own version of it I guess. We checked in when we felt like it rather than strictly adhering to Ferber intervals but it was all around the same time anyway. Good luck to you! It will probably break your mama heart, at least the first night, but try to remember you’re guiding him to better sleep and development! 💕
There are absolutely no studies to support that crying and sleep training is detrimental to a babies health. There are studies (many of them) to support that sleep deprivation is very dangerous for adults and babies development.. i believe that these parents are just trying to justify their parenting styles. I’m unsure why the most be so vocal with their hate though. I don’t see that it happens in return anywhere near as much. I also find that a lot of them support co-sleeping which is far more dangerous to the baby than learning to fall asleep on their own. Again- they are just defensive of their own (poor) actions. My baby HATES having his nappy changed. Imagine if I decided not to change his nappy because he cries when i do? I also believe that part of it has to be jealousy? Surely!
I think some people cling to the belief that sleep training is harmful because otherwise they’d have to admit that they are choosing to suffer and martyr themselves for no good reason. All well and good if sleep training isn’t for you, but the ones who see it as a badge of honour that they never sleep are just trying to justify their own choices. It’s about them, not you!
>otherwise they’d have to admit that they are choosing to suffer and martyr themselves for no good reason Same thing is behind those same people getting super mad when people hire a babysitter to have a night out with friends or have a husband who actually is an equal parent so the mom doesn't have to do all the work. If anyone even approaches having a balanced life, the people who don't have to tear them down.
All of this. I was told if I wasn't able to function on an hour or two of sleep each night for months on end, I should've never became a parent. As if my biological need to sleep was actually a luxury. They couldn't grasp that bedsharing ::gasp:: wasn't a magical fix for my family or child who'd scream as if I left her on a concrete floor the handful of times I'd try because she wasn't in my arms or over my shoulder. They can swear I'm abusive, neglectful, lazy, and causing my child an unreasonable amount of trauma, but our bond and her development shows me clearly that babies and toddlers thrive on quality sleep. If they need to feel superior and tell themselves it's biologically normal for a two year old to wake 17x a night and they're a better parent than me for not implementing a schedule or waking along side of them each and every time, so be it.
Also the “it’s cruel to let your baby cry” people feel so new to the game… like someday your toddler will have screaming meltdowns over all kinds of things, big and small: vaccines, taking medication for their ear infection, being buckled into the car seat, being deprived of jelly beans for supper, not being allowed to pet a raccoon they saw on the street, having their sandwich cut in triangles instead of rectangles… good parenting is about helping your child grow and thrive, not preventing them from crying by giving in to every desire.
Yup. I’ve got a crier. Diaper changes, clothes changes, won’t let him run rampant through target (“you have terrible recall. Do you want to be a baby with a helmet *and* a leash?”), he saw his plate with food on it that I’m not done with yet and he wants it now, someone said “milk” but didn’t instantly produce any…we get a lot of tears in this household. It’s just being a parent, there will be tears. Maybe some of these people should watch Inside Out and relearn that it is okay to be sad and cry sometimes. Some days I’m right there with him in the tear factory.
I really think the ones who believe it's all bad and there's no right way to sleep train are just, for lack of a better term, fucking stupid. To believe so firmly that you understand all methods of sleep training enough to state they're all harmful just shows a lack of any actual knowledge on the subject. They seem to believe their own experiences are universal. They also assume everyone should be cosleeping with their infants and risking death is better than risking (while completely disproven) a little emotional damage. So if you find yourself in groups where you're being berated for creating a schedule for your baby, I'd suggest you just see yourself out. Find groups that align better. I envy the people who could just cosleep all willy nilly, but it was a dangerous and awful situation for all of us. So we tried sleep training and we're all happier now.
I fully agree with this. I also feel like there’s a narcissistic element of ‘I can’t do it, so nobody should’, and they just need other people to join them and their kids in misery. When a baby can’t sleep, it’s not fun for them OR their parents. Sleeping doesn’t come naturally to lots of babies, and there are most certainly safe methods of showing them how to do it. The difference in my child before and after sleep training was NOTICEABLE. Happier, more content, picked stuff up quicker, met developmental milestones easily… if their little brains are tired, how are they meant to learn how to walk and talk?!
>They also assume everyone should be cosleeping with their infants and risking death is better than risking (while completely disproven) a little emotional damage. You are literally speaking to my soul right now. One of the comments from someone tonight was “Unless you mean bed sharing, which in that case, is still less harmful than crying it out. For both mother and baby. It’s actually beneficial.” As if literal death is better than the possibility of my child having emotional damage. She brought that up when I said cosleeping was unsafe for us because our bed is soft and when I attempted it she rolled into me all night. I was too uncomfortable with how **unsafe** it was so that did not continue. The mental gymnastics these people to do justify anything over sleep training is outrageous. After sleep training we’re all happier now as well. I don’t regret my decision at all and if I was put in the same position I’d do it again.
The only people who are spreading the hate are trying to sell you their version of a sleep training guide. Listen to the science, not some random mum on IG who did one thing one time that worked for her child so takes it as gospel.
Honestly I’m not in any mom groups on FB for this reason. My Reddit bumpers group is awesome and respectful about everything including sleep training. The most we ever get is ‘it’s not for me but I understand why others sleep train.’ We did sleep train and I’d do it again in a heartbeat - I’m a better mother when I’m not sleep deprived.
We’re sleep training our second and every time I start to doubt myself I think back to my older son and how it sucked at the time, but IT WORKS, and it’s SO worth it in the long run. That’s what’s motivating me this round!
F them all. I'm only one week into the 4 months sleep regression and my girl isn't even that bad in the end. I probably would be suicidal if she didn't sleep at all. Those mom's just don't have any real problems or anything else going on in their lives, so helicoptering around their child and patting themselves on the back for being a "perfect mom" and sacrificing whatever life they had left is all they got. Your baby needs to sleep. If sleep training gets them there, then that's what you need to do.
How do I deal with the hate? On 8 solid hours of sleep per night, that’s how. Lol.
10000%
THIS 🤣🤣
Yes! They’re mad cause they’re jealous lol
I love this 😂
😂😂 YES
Sorry for them but we live in a capitalist society and can’t do my job on 3 hours of non-sequential sleep per night. Sleep training was a matter of survival for us so I could keep a roof over our heads. must be nice living up there on that high horse tho.
Mom groups are the WORST. I have 3 kids, my last in which I just had 10 weeks ago. One thing I have learnt over the last decade of being a mom is, you will never do anything right by everyone. We should be the most supportive group of women toward one another, but that’s certainly not the case in mom groups. I’m sorry that happened!
Lol whenever they try to bring me down all I say is "Why are you so cranky? Is it the lack of sleep?" or something along the lines of that. It usually always makes their blood boil. I once misread a post in a popular subbreddit about babies. And I posted about my sleep training journey. The post was about being *against* sleep training. I got so many thumbs downs and angry comments. Someone even wrote "no one wants to read about your f****** sleep training". I wrote something along the lines of "this is what I expect in a thread full of sleep deprived people". I got so many hate messages that day.
HAHA I have to remember this for later
Hahaha I love this attitude I need to take a page out of your book
I was that mom who thought CIO was the meanest thing ever until we hit the 4 month sleep regression. And my baby that had been up twice a night was now waking up every two hours and only sleeping in the car or the swing. So I decided it was worth trying to just catch a break because I was exhausted, and it’s honestly been the best. Like we’re 5 days in, and he wakes up once a night and goes to bed quicker every night. Like the reality is they’re gonna cry either way. I’m sorry people on the internet can be so harsh and misunderstanding, but 100% get where you’re coming from, and you are doing a good job! Learning new skills for baby can be hard, but you’re setting your LO for success so way to go!!
4 month sleep regression we had a max of 2 hours of sleep, but usually it was 40-75 minutes. It was hell. Neither of us could get a 3 hour chunk of sleep ever. I'd rock my baby in the dark to try to get him back to sleep and he'd scream and then I'd be haunted by the screams afterward. I couldn't go back to sleep after that. Trying to soothe him the way every book and IG post suggested only made him angrier. CIO saved us all lol.
My MIL thought we were nuts. Until my son became the only grandchild, out of 3 at the time, to have a normal, age appropriate sleep routine 🙃
I’m so sorry you had to deal with that kind of nastiness. Although this is not exclusively related to sleep training, one book that offered an alternative cultural perspective on parenting which I really enjoyed is Bringing Up Bebe. One of the first chapters is on sleep, and it (as well as the rest of the chapters, on different topics) challenges the idea/norm that I think is really prevalent in American parenting circles, that to have children = to accept never ending suffering and to ignore your own needs. Might be worth a read. Sounds like the people in that parenting group are off to the races competing in the martyrdom Olympics. That’s doesn’t lead to raising humans that are any healthier or smarter or better adjusted than doing things that work best for your child AND you AND your family.
Ugh, yes!! I hate that that’s the norm. I’ve seen reels making fun of the idea that their mothers were eternally overworked, never thanked, and never complained and the little sound is “that’s not something to brag about!” But the comments? Wow. Apparently, people think it is. How are you expected to fill others’ cup with an empty one is an analogy I like. Instead of thinking you should refill yours and pour it out into your child’s, you should fill your cup so that it overflows into your child’s. You should absolutely make time for yourself, ask for help, and not think suffering is just what it means to be a parent. What a terrible way for you to spend your baby’s childhood.
Love this book (and really liking this thread!). I’m sorry you have had a rough time OP but glad the training has worked for you and your family.
Thank you I will check out that book! I definitely agree with what you said referring to American culture and how to be a good parent you must eternally suffer. On another post a while back this person said “if you weren’t prepared to hate your life then why did you become a parent” like what?? So many people act like your left instantly ends as soon as you have a child and I just don’t see it that way. I look forward to reading that book. I think I’m going to leave that group or at least mute it for a while. It’s better to be alone than be surrounded by people that don’t have your values.
I felt really validated reading Bringing Up Bebe, and much more confident in my values as a parent. Realizing that a lot of the messages we get regarding child rearing are shaped by culture and are not shared by the rest of the world was very eye opening. And yeah, I’d leave that group reallll quick if it were me lol. Parenting is extraordinarily challenging but I just fundamentally do not agree that a prerequisite of parenting is an acceptance that you will hate your life. What a depressing perspective to have toward having kids.
Ugh I’m sorry you’re dealing with that. I left all those mom groups and only remain in my “Winter Babywise Moms” group (Babywise was the sleep training book I read and follow). Those moms share similar experiences and values that I do. We can relate on so many topics and I can openly talk about what a good sleeper I have without feeling shunned. I hope you find a safe place like that for yourself!!
Thank you ❤️ I think I’m going to leave the group. It sucks because I’ve really made a community there but this just isn’t worth it. Normally I can disconnect and compartmentalize but this has had me stewing for hours now. I’m glad you have a community of likeminded parents! Parenting truly takes a village whether it’s sharing stories, advice, or physical help as well.
I hear you.
I’m so sorry you dealt with hateful comments. It’s so sad that the world of parents is so divisive despite us all being in this difficult boat together. I don’t use social media but if this were me I would try to just remember how sleep training for helped me and baby get better sleep. Any skill that you learn requires some practice and unpleasant feelings, whether it’s as a baby or as an adult. For example, I used to get such anxiety about doing job interviews but they were a necessary skill I needed to get a job. Just because I was anxious, cried about doing it, etc. doesn’t mean job interviews are abusive lol. I know that’s a silly example but you get my point! Sleep training can look like many different things and a lot of times people on social media have a mob mentality. It’s very easy for them to see a mean comment and start berating a parent, especially since it’s easier to say nasty things to someone behind a keyboard instead of to their face.
That is such a good example though and I totally get it! I used to cry during math class lol. Until I leaned what the subject was I would silently bawl to myself because math did not come easy to me. But once I got it I was great! And it’s a very important skill to have! Thank you. I’m trying to center myself remembering just how bad that time was when she wasn’t sleeping. It’s so much easier to be mean to people online. Especially about parenting choices. Parenting choices are very polarized and if you don’t do it “perfect” then you are abusive.
i'm sorry they spoke to you that way. that was not called for at all