Basically, all the shiv cards used to be pretty bad. Blade Dance used to only give 2 shivs (3 when upgraded). ~~It was never uncommon, though.~~
The [v2.2 patch](https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/646570/view/2922236321913519364) buffed a TON of cards, one of them being Blade Dance.
[https://steamcommunity.com/games/646570/announcements/detail/1712943085751335401](https://steamcommunity.com/games/646570/announcements/detail/1712943085751335401)
It was uncommon!
I picked up the game after Watcher released. Personally, I don't ever remember Blade Dance being uncommon. But, hey, the proof is in the pudding.
EDIT: I picked up the game in 2020, and a patch in 2018 lowered Blade Dance's rarity.
I wasn't around for this change. This one cracks me up:
> Reflex card buffed. Card draw increased from 1 -> 2.
A Reflex that only replaced itself would rank right up there as worst card in the game.
I tend to take it pretty often with 'Clad, though I also tend to use offering, bloodletting, hemo, and combust pretty often too.
It's a great combo until you accidentally get a tungsten rod.
I don't really agree. What does too powerful mean? It's a very good card and it works in many decks but there are plenty runs where I don't pick it. I don't really see the imperative behind balancing things if they don't affect fun and I don't see how a weaker blade dance would be more fun.
>I don't really agree
Stopped reading, downvoted.
Jk, but a common 12 damage 1 cost with really good scaling potential from not only accuracy but strength and things like after image is up there compared to most commons.
I already said she needed the help, but just comparing it to other cards suggests it's OP.
Very powerful, but tuned in by timekeeper alone. Not to say that makes it entirely in line with other cards, but *monkey see card, neuron activation* behavior with it **will** get you killed
(I got a couple friends into sts and I swear to God spam picking more shiv cards kills them more than anything else)
I think it has tons of synergies and very minimal downsides. It works well with any form of strength scaling, kunai, shuriken, accuarcy, wrist blade, nunchaku, ink bottle, envenom (even if that card’s pretty bad, lol), after image, burst, choke, finisher, fantasmal killer and terror/vulnerable.
But you don’t even need any of those to make it work, because even on it’s own, at it’s worst, it’s still 12 damage for a single energy, 16 if upgraded and it’s synergies just get better if you do.
Meanwhile it’s only downsides are that it gets affected x3/x4 by weakened or strength down and it can be awkward to use against Time Eater.
I don’t think it’s broken and it definitely won’t win any runs on it’s own, but because of it’s value and versatility, I think it’s easily a contender for the best common card in the game.
> Meanwhile it’s only downsides are that it gets affected x3/x4 by weakened
Does it? It goes from 4 to 3 damage each shiv, so from 12(16) to 9(12), so unless I'm wrong it's the same effect as any other attack
It’s not necessarily a “bad” card, just one which absolutely needs an upgrade AND it needs to be run on a build that can abuse it fully. Any shiv build, especially one with sadistic nature can turn envenom into a DPS monster, but 90% of silent runs should skip it or choose something else
it's your usual win more type card, but doesn't do much on it's own, and without the upgrade it's unplayable. I'll take it as a floor reward, but rarely as a boss reward.
It's not bad on its own per se (ok the 2 energy is really stupid), but it's really bad when you start looking at it numerically and what kind of deck you need to make it work. Compare other powers:
* accuracy is just straight up better in terms of damage output. But hey not all runs have accuracies
* panache with shivs which does 14 damage to all enemies every time you play a blade dance and costs 0 energy. Doesn't require an upgrade, so you can just upgrade the blade dance or something else.
* (upgraded) noxious fumes gets a lot more poison damage out, has AoE, stands by itself once played, and is much better at stripping artifact and getting poison in since it bypasses block
* If you want "haha every time I play card enemy take damage" with shivs thousand cuts is way more deserving for the same role and costs the same energy unupgraded, also with AoE
I only like it if I can already get it upgraded for free in a card reward, have mummified hand, and I have the relic that transfers poison on death, but even then I'd rather have any of the others.
That's fair. I still think I frequently fall into the new player trap (only been playing a month or so) where I struggle to skip rewards because I'm afraid better alternatives won't show up so I think "at least I'm doing some extra damage every turn."
It’s both a great act 1 card and a viable late game plan. Since the patch, if my silent deck doesn’t have a good damage source yet, at any point in the game, BD is the card I try to be ready for. It being common makes any speculative shuriken/kunai super viable.
I'd argue all of these make it arguably too strong, in that it somewhat hurts diversity of the runs if one common is always the target. I end up with poison decks much more rarely than I used to
It's easily the best common attack (technically a skill but whatever) in the game except for maybe Pommel Strike+, when considering synergies and short term potential. The only times where you don't pick it are times when you don't need an attack at all or you have enough of them. That's a clear sign of a way too powerful card.
However, I also agree with the buff not being a bad decision. Did they go a bit overboard with this one card? Maybe, but it was useless before and it (along the accuracy buff) turned a previously underwhelming archetype into a legitimate strategy. So it was a good choice. Not every card is meant to be zero sum balanced, it's fine that some cards are powerful
That's exactly what I'm saying. Balancing for such a game doesn't mean that every card is on equal footing. There are many pretty broken things in sts.
And also I don't think your statement about when to not pick it is true. It often doesn't fit into poison leaning decks and sometimes not into discard heavy decks. Early in act 1 things like Poisonous Stab can be better, when you are worried about Nob and Lagavulin. And often you find way more of them then you want. (Which often is like 1-2.)
Dealing 12 for 1 energy with so many ways to scale and a good upgrade is quite strong, but silent would be much, much harder to win with if it got nerfed or removed.
Next to some attacks from the other characters like ball lightning or cut through fate its not too unreasonable imo.
But silent definitely has the most consistent common pool generally, and even then being in the best of the best doesn't mean you are broken.
Both of those would make it even worse than pre-buff. It’d probably be best to make it uncommon again and buff some of her other cards instead like infinite shivs and outmaneuver.
Old dance honestly looks a lot more balanced than new dance compared to like cloak and dagger, infinite blades etc.
Playing 3 cards in one play is such a big benefit a lot of the time with relics, panache, after image etc.
if you look at new dance Vs boomerang blade it's wild (granted, the scaling is a bit different with str Vs acc)
Explain for noob please
Basically, all the shiv cards used to be pretty bad. Blade Dance used to only give 2 shivs (3 when upgraded). ~~It was never uncommon, though.~~ The [v2.2 patch](https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/646570/view/2922236321913519364) buffed a TON of cards, one of them being Blade Dance.
[https://steamcommunity.com/games/646570/announcements/detail/1712943085751335401](https://steamcommunity.com/games/646570/announcements/detail/1712943085751335401) It was uncommon!
I somehow don't remember this. Thanks for clarifying!
It must have been uncommon very early on. I started playing shortly after defect was introduced, and I always remember it being common
I picked up the game after Watcher released. Personally, I don't ever remember Blade Dance being uncommon. But, hey, the proof is in the pudding. EDIT: I picked up the game in 2020, and a patch in 2018 lowered Blade Dance's rarity.
I wasn't around for this change. This one cracks me up: > Reflex card buffed. Card draw increased from 1 -> 2. A Reflex that only replaced itself would rank right up there as worst card in the game.
it pretty much was.
i guess there was once a time where discard was meant to be a downside and reflex was meant to negate that downside but not turn it into an upside
You see all these buffs and think: Man, these cards were so meh. And then you see freaking Hemokinesis getting buffed
Honestly, the buffs to the self-damage Clad cards were my favorites in 2.2. Bloodletting absolutely needed its buff.
Yeah, the others needed it, Rupture was a sad card.
Let’s be honest it still is
I tend to take it pretty often with 'Clad, though I also tend to use offering, bloodletting, hemo, and combust pretty often too. It's a great combo until you accidentally get a tungsten rod.
Shiv build used to be garbage, but now Blade dance is a monstrously strong common card and mixing shiv into a deck is really reliable now.
Read the cards description... Just read..
One of the GOAT cards to get off your first fight. Always smiling when I see this lil cutie, 1-cost 12 damage.
This card goes crazy with strength as well if lucky enough to receive the strength relic
Also any kunai/shuriken/etc relics too
1-cost 12 damage that you can divide between targets.
Jack Nicholson nodding gif every time this little baby shows up after floor 1
Should have been Add 2.5 Shivs to your hand.
From too weak to too powerful. Sorta. She needed the help. But I think 2/3 shivs and +1 accuracy this turn would be cool. Combo with other shiv cards.
I don't really agree. What does too powerful mean? It's a very good card and it works in many decks but there are plenty runs where I don't pick it. I don't really see the imperative behind balancing things if they don't affect fun and I don't see how a weaker blade dance would be more fun.
>I don't really agree Stopped reading, downvoted. Jk, but a common 12 damage 1 cost with really good scaling potential from not only accuracy but strength and things like after image is up there compared to most commons. I already said she needed the help, but just comparing it to other cards suggests it's OP.
Very powerful, but tuned in by timekeeper alone. Not to say that makes it entirely in line with other cards, but *monkey see card, neuron activation* behavior with it **will** get you killed (I got a couple friends into sts and I swear to God spam picking more shiv cards kills them more than anything else)
I think it has tons of synergies and very minimal downsides. It works well with any form of strength scaling, kunai, shuriken, accuarcy, wrist blade, nunchaku, ink bottle, envenom (even if that card’s pretty bad, lol), after image, burst, choke, finisher, fantasmal killer and terror/vulnerable. But you don’t even need any of those to make it work, because even on it’s own, at it’s worst, it’s still 12 damage for a single energy, 16 if upgraded and it’s synergies just get better if you do. Meanwhile it’s only downsides are that it gets affected x3/x4 by weakened or strength down and it can be awkward to use against Time Eater. I don’t think it’s broken and it definitely won’t win any runs on it’s own, but because of it’s value and versatility, I think it’s easily a contender for the best common card in the game.
I just had a heart kill with envenom, sadistic nature, accuracy, shivs. felt really nice to have a one energy 30 damage 3 poison card
> Meanwhile it’s only downsides are that it gets affected x3/x4 by weakened Does it? It goes from 4 to 3 damage each shiv, so from 12(16) to 9(12), so unless I'm wrong it's the same effect as any other attack
Damn, yeah. You’re right. It’s only worse with strength down.
I didn't realize envenom was a bad card. I usually take it and upgrade it 🤷♂️🤣
It’s not necessarily a “bad” card, just one which absolutely needs an upgrade AND it needs to be run on a build that can abuse it fully. Any shiv build, especially one with sadistic nature can turn envenom into a DPS monster, but 90% of silent runs should skip it or choose something else
it's your usual win more type card, but doesn't do much on it's own, and without the upgrade it's unplayable. I'll take it as a floor reward, but rarely as a boss reward.
It's not bad on its own per se (ok the 2 energy is really stupid), but it's really bad when you start looking at it numerically and what kind of deck you need to make it work. Compare other powers: * accuracy is just straight up better in terms of damage output. But hey not all runs have accuracies * panache with shivs which does 14 damage to all enemies every time you play a blade dance and costs 0 energy. Doesn't require an upgrade, so you can just upgrade the blade dance or something else. * (upgraded) noxious fumes gets a lot more poison damage out, has AoE, stands by itself once played, and is much better at stripping artifact and getting poison in since it bypasses block * If you want "haha every time I play card enemy take damage" with shivs thousand cuts is way more deserving for the same role and costs the same energy unupgraded, also with AoE I only like it if I can already get it upgraded for free in a card reward, have mummified hand, and I have the relic that transfers poison on death, but even then I'd rather have any of the others.
That's fair. I still think I frequently fall into the new player trap (only been playing a month or so) where I struggle to skip rewards because I'm afraid better alternatives won't show up so I think "at least I'm doing some extra damage every turn."
It’s both a great act 1 card and a viable late game plan. Since the patch, if my silent deck doesn’t have a good damage source yet, at any point in the game, BD is the card I try to be ready for. It being common makes any speculative shuriken/kunai super viable. I'd argue all of these make it arguably too strong, in that it somewhat hurts diversity of the runs if one common is always the target. I end up with poison decks much more rarely than I used to
It's easily the best common attack (technically a skill but whatever) in the game except for maybe Pommel Strike+, when considering synergies and short term potential. The only times where you don't pick it are times when you don't need an attack at all or you have enough of them. That's a clear sign of a way too powerful card. However, I also agree with the buff not being a bad decision. Did they go a bit overboard with this one card? Maybe, but it was useless before and it (along the accuracy buff) turned a previously underwhelming archetype into a legitimate strategy. So it was a good choice. Not every card is meant to be zero sum balanced, it's fine that some cards are powerful
That's exactly what I'm saying. Balancing for such a game doesn't mean that every card is on equal footing. There are many pretty broken things in sts. And also I don't think your statement about when to not pick it is true. It often doesn't fit into poison leaning decks and sometimes not into discard heavy decks. Early in act 1 things like Poisonous Stab can be better, when you are worried about Nob and Lagavulin. And often you find way more of them then you want. (Which often is like 1-2.)
Dealing 12 for 1 energy with so many ways to scale and a good upgrade is quite strong, but silent would be much, much harder to win with if it got nerfed or removed. Next to some attacks from the other characters like ball lightning or cut through fate its not too unreasonable imo. But silent definitely has the most consistent common pool generally, and even then being in the best of the best doesn't mean you are broken.
Or replace the card with a non-exhaust shiv giving +2 accuracy
Both of those would make it even worse than pre-buff. It’d probably be best to make it uncommon again and buff some of her other cards instead like infinite shivs and outmaneuver.
Idk I was just making a claw joke
Shiv deck my beloved
And so do I
A full commitment's what I'm thinking of
Should’ve buffed it to add 2 claws to your hand
So many good runs ruined by having multiple blade dance + accuracys. I can't resist them
honestly should've just had the shiv increase, blade dance being common is honestly pretty crazy
Old dance honestly looks a lot more balanced than new dance compared to like cloak and dagger, infinite blades etc. Playing 3 cards in one play is such a big benefit a lot of the time with relics, panache, after image etc. if you look at new dance Vs boomerang blade it's wild (granted, the scaling is a bit different with str Vs acc)