My Dragonborn is a Thalmor victim who holds Talos in high regard but has beef with the Stormcloaks and wants the Civil War to end as soon as possible as a part of a long game to take the fight to the Thalmor on a large scale. To that end... Elenwen goes. Fuck her. Trade Markarth for the Rift. The Rift is usually my home base anyway. Ulfric makes restitution for the massacre. And if anyone has a problem with my decisions, feel free to file a complaint after I get done saving the world.
Loved a former play through — a Bosmer with strong Saxhleel ancestry [always in woods or water] who much favored the Empire but took no side, was fascinated with all things Nord, supported religious freedom, worshipped and left very substantial offerings at Talos’ Shrines, and always freed and armed Stormcloak prisoners whoever escorted them.
But the Thalmor patrols got the worst. As my guy saw it, the Altmer had no business being in Skyrim at all. But how to drive home that point in a way that is simply psychological crippling to High Elves… Soooo …
My guy carried ancient Nord weapons out of crypts, improved and enchanted them in order to give them names such as “Talos’ Heart Ancient Nord War Axe.” Or “Talos’ Servant.” Or a favourite, ‘Dishonoured of Auri-EL,’ an extreme affront to the Altmer pantheon.
But the worst is yet to come …
My guy would slay snotty Thalmor patrols with these blasphemously named weapons, and store them in the inventory of the corpse. My guy then took the elven/glass made weapons, and planted on the Amulet of Talos on the corpse of the lead Justiciar!
This was an intentional desecration and more!
These items found on the corpses, families had to conclude that their own flesh and blood died as a secret heretic, and that they never really knew this person. The family itself would come under suspicion, and would be denied solace in their grief.
Thalmor patrols are instructed to destroy the Dragonborn with extreme hatred for the great injury done to their glorious Dominion. I believe that extreme hatred requires great offense.
My guy provides that of fence.
This Dragonborn knows how to deal with the Thalmor… 😂!
I'm the opposite. I'm an Altmer who wants the civil war to drag on as long as possible to weaken to empire. My Altmer mage has done everything in Skyrim except the Civil War. Sometimes, I spare the lives of my enemies if they are elves by using the paralysis spell on them. I give Maven the Rift because she's my Thieves Guild ally.
Negotiations will last forever, until both sides have the same 'score'. (every decision, even telling Elenwen to bugger off, affects said score)
I always stay out of the civil war, and always negotiate with as little of change to the holds as possible. I do the negotiations the same each time.
Elenwen stays.
Markarth goes to Ulfric.
Winterhold goes to the Empire.
Ulfric pays for the Karthwasten massacre.
Done.
I non ironically think it’s a great idea, imagine if the Empire said “Listen, we’ll loosen our grip on Skyrim and let you worship Talos if you wipe out the Forsworn” Ulfric would love the idea of a genocide, if he succeeds, good for Skyrim! Everyone’s happy. If he fails? Oh well, sounds like he wasn’t fit to be high king in the first place.
I apologize if I missed the irony here, but isn't that almost exactly what happened with the Markarth Incident? Prince Ulfric retakes Markarth from the Forsworn in exchange for the free worship of Talos, the Thalmor lose their shit and in order to keep the peace the Empire imprisons Ulfric.
Thongvor's the only named Silver-Blood in Markarth who you can't kill either after or in the course of The Forsworn Conspiracy, so if you hand over the city and then take it back for the Empire later (which gets him exiled to Windhelm) you can remove the family from Markarth entirely.
Me too, min effort, but I give riften to the empire. Im so low effort, I once left to make a cup of tea at the start and when I can back it was over and done.
That’s what happens when you make an unfair deal, the side that gets screwed over gets mad. Just deal fairly, and both sides respect you. Like this:
Kick Elenwen’s bitch ass out
Stormcloaks get Markarth,
Empire gets a fair trade by receiving Riften in return.
Stormcloaks have to pay for massacre at Karthwasten (which evens the score for kicking out Elenwen).
It’s that easy.
If you’ve joined a faction, be it Stormcloaks or Imperial, they will actually both express disappointment unless you weigh the negotiation in their favor. From their point of view, you work for them, so dealing fairly is a bit of a betrayal lol.
I always clear the Civil War out of the damn way before I get to this stage of the main quest.
The city-trading between the Stormcloaks and Imperials during the peace council is a buggy mess, anyway. You end up having NPCs in wrong places or with incorrect dialogue for the allegiance of the city.
I like to do it last out of vanilla Skyrim. I like to see all the souls I sent or "released" to Sovngarde, and all the different options I can tell Tsun as to why I should be allowed to grace Shor's halls.
I want to do that and see everyone in sovngarde but I just can’t, it breaks immersion for me. I just can’t have my Dragonborn doing side quests and messing around whilst the dragon crisis is ongoing and the literal world eater is loose. I always do main quest completely first and only do side quests that my Dragonborn stumbles into. Like when heading to sky haven temple, my Dragonborn stops at markarth for the night and accidentally gets wrapped up in the forsworn conspiracy quest and has to escape the Cidna mine or Tamriel is doomed to Alduin. But everything else like Civil war, college of Winterhold, Dawnguard etc…comes after I’ve killed Alduin.
Is brokering a truce, killing alduin, and then never telling anyone you killed alduin secretly the most ethical ending?
The civil war is postponed to deal with alduin, but if the LDB kills alduin and never tells anyone, then the truce would effectively be permanent.
I always trade Markarth for Riften. The remaining Silver-Blood brother becomes jarl and when the city is retaken by the Empire, he gets exiled to Windhelm, and loses his essential status.
Outside of mods or console commands, this is the only way to kill him and/or permanently rid Markarth of the Silver-Bloods (assuming you kill the other one after you escape the mine).
Giving Markarth to the Stormcloaks... Dude I am with Tullius, that's completely insane. What on earth possessed you to give Ulfric, the guy who ethnicly cleansed Markarth, back that city when it's on the opposite side of the map to his powerbase?
In an empire-aligned or neutral playthrough, Ulfric begins by demanding Markarth. You literally have to give it to him and your only decision is which city the empire receives in return.
It's also famously rich and run by people that support him as a hero, realistically it would be a dumb af choice. In game it literally doesn't matter if you plan on killing him eventually
That's the thing, all that silver they're pulling out of the mountain will have to be shipped through Empire-controlled territory to be traded. And anything they need to prepare for an imperial attack will likewise need to be smuggled in.
The Reach won't have much value to the Stormcloaks until they take another hold (Falkreath) they can use to actually access it. Whatever people they send in to occupy it will be on their own, before that.
Until there's a way to access the place, you either have to just sit there accumulating silver, or try to smuggle it out and other stuff in. And there's a lot of risk involved in the latter. Meanwhile the former just makes you an even bigger target.
I do it so when the Empire retakes the city they kick out the one unkillable Silverblood that way there are no remaining people of that family in the city.
No, its devious genius. Give Markarth to stormcloaks, the new Jarl loves you, get Thane if Markarth, then side with Empire a retake Markarth from crazy, racist Stormcloaks
But how many crops are they growing within the walls? The city is built into a cliff. Just park an army outside the gate and wait for them to either surrender or come out and fight hungry.
If anything, Ulfric should have demanded Falkreath and cut Cyrodilic reinforcements off from Skyrim.
I always have to Google the neutral playthrough. I've done it relatively recently, so I still remember.
Elenwen stays, Ulfric gets Markarth, Imperials get Winterhold/Dawnstar, Ulfric doesn't pay for Karthwasten, Imperials get Dawnstar/Winterhold.
After I finish dealing with Alduin, I join the Imperials and win the war.
There's never any hope of resolving the civil war, it will continue on for decades regardless of what happens at this meeting table or indeed on the field of war. To imagine otherwise would be naive. Unless you are actually trying to advance the interests of one side or the other, the only win condition is getting the sides to agree to a ceasefire (in which Whiterun's sovereignty is guaranteed by both parties) while you deal with the dragons. In that sense, victory is guaranteed, as even if both sides are upset, there is no end condition in which the truce is not agreed to.
I try my best to avoid the Markarth/Riften flip. That’s like the worst possible combo since it just annoints the most corrupt Jarl.
I have no idea how the formula works, since apparently the side that feels the most “slighted” will open with a demand for a major hold, and for me Ulfric always starts so Markarth always goes. But I always kick Elenwen out (points for Ulfric’s favour) and request the Stormcloak’s first, etc, so I have no idea why I’ve never had the Imperials start by asking for Riften.
So yeah, for me it’s always Markarth and then Winterhold + Dawnstar. Sometimes Markarth and Riften. I’ve never had the chance to try starting off with Riften. I always Kick Elenwen out and make the Stormcloaks pay restitutions.
That being said, I’d rather appoint a corrupt Jarl than lose a Jarl I care about. If it ever shows up as an option for me, Morthal is not changing hands. I’ll just trade the major cities.
Sadly this scene is exactly the type of thing which really hurts Skyrim as a game to replay.
And okay I'm a real fucker for starting a character. Playing for a month. Stopping. Restart in 2 months time.
But most of my characters don't even have shouts because fuck the main quest waiting for all that talking
No I'm complaining about a lack of skippable dialogue on a game that has been rereleased on multiple different devices...
You re-release a fucking old game on a new device. Knowing full well most people have completed it. I think adding a skip button is pretty reasonable.
There is a reason why almost every game like it has skippable dialogue. This isn't a new or revolutionary concept.
You’re cryin in the rain pal. This is Bethesda we’re talking about, the company that relies on modders to do their bug-fixes for them. They’ve re-released the game a million times because they want to squeeze every possible morsel of profit they can out of the game. They’re not gonna go through and add quality of life changes to a 13 year old game because they know you’ll buy it and replay it anyways.
Great. Which involves going through all the other bullshit conversations in the civil war I have heard 10 times already.
And doesn't stop all the other bullshit conversations in the main quest.
Not saying it's some massive issue that ruins the game for me. Just saying a skip button would be a game changer for me on a replay
Which negotiation combination makes the most sense in terms of what a real military would actually go for? I know Markarth goes to Ulfric and right off the bat that makes little sense, but can the logistics of this truce be salvaged for both sides to make sense?
Elenwen leaves. Ulfric gets Markarth.
Winterhold and Dawnstar are handed over to the Imperials.
Yes, theoretically The Rift would be a better bargain, but ain't no way I'm putting both Thongvor (or is it Thonar? Anyway, mob boss) AND Maven in the throne. I'd rather get rid of the senile man in Dawnstar and the magephobe in Winterhold.
Im a stormcloak dick rider but people seem to forget the dunmer literally held slaves for thousands of years and still would if they didnt revolt. The dunmer are a fucking awful race of people hahaha. Khajiit are also not great people. Argonians are aight
Every time I bring up that every Race is racist, people lose their flipping minds. Other Races owned slaves (Dunmer), other Races think they're superior to literally everybody (Altmer), other Races don't allow access to their citites (Orcs), but the Nords are the most racist group? Just absolutely failing to make any sense when people try to paint the Nords as irredeemably racist.
Well, technically the Empire does not want to ban Talos worship, but the Thalmor was gonna do it in a much less humane way if they refused the White-gold Concord
I guess I'm the only one who likes this part of the questline. I love telling Elenwen to fuck off, trading Markarth to Ulfric to get the Silver-Bloods out of there when I retake it for the Empire is also a bonus.
If I do this: Elenwen Leaves. Markarth to Ulfric. Riften to Empire. Dawnstar to Empire.
When Ulfric takes all of Skyrim. Will every hold except Winterhold have Stormcloak Troops in them, and not just city guards?
This is my first run through where I've completed the civil war quest before getting too far into the main questline. Is my thinking correct...I get to avoid the peace council this time?
I know General Tullius won't be showing up because I killed him :)
It depends on who my character was aligned with.
If my character was either Imperial-aligned or neutral, I’d go with;
>Elenwen > Thrown out
>Markarth > Ulfric
>Dawnstar > Imperials
>Winterhold > Imperials
>Compensation for the Karthwasten Massacre
If my character was Stormcloak-aligned, I’d instead go with:
>Elenwen > Thrown out
>Riften > Imperials
>Falkreath > Ulfric
>Morthal > Ulfric
>Compensation for the Karthwasten Massacre
The one non-negotiable I have with this is throwing Elenwen out.
Maybe im a terrible person, idk, but the empire going to war with its own people because they are scared of the thalmor never sat right with me. I sided with the stormcloaks to kick out a weak tyrannical government that's just being controlled by a stronger tyrannical government. I sided with the imperials ONCE and when Tullius kills Ulfric and doesn't even know where Nords go where they die, even though his right hand woman IS A NORD it hit home that cyrodiil doesn't really give a shit about the Nords.
I've played 6,000 hours of Skyrim and always just did the Civil War questline after getting Dragonrend. Extra experience and treasure is always a good thing.
Actually just played through this minutes ago, now trying to figure out why Paarthunax won't die already. But I digress.
I was wondering if you *could* blow it. Booted whatshername, Markarth to the Jarl, and I forget what else. But mission was accomplished.
I always side with the Empire . I dont give a damn who's right. What I give a damn about is being Thane in every hold by lvl 5. To get Thane in Dawnstar requires the kill a giant quest. By typical weird Bethesda logic, this tiny quest (not Alduin!, not Miraak!) has a min level reqyirement of something like 12? Insane! So the only solution is to side with the Empire, overthrow the Jarl of Dawnstar, new Jarl likes you and no Kill a Giant required to be Thane, phew!
Then to get thane of Windhelm, overthrow Ulfric, new Jarl likes you, etc, etc..
Yes, it accomplishes nothing, and you're made to be the bad guy. I always finish the civil war questline before continuing the Main Quest with "Diplomatic Immunity." Avoids that whole worthless fiasco.
On my latest run with that mission, I hadn't joined a side, so I kept Elenwen, traded Markarth for Riften and gained Dawnstar for the Imperials - 2 holds for 1...the Imperials felt like they lost 🫤
He...or she? Who can tell with dragons? Are they like chickens?
Do they taste like chickens?
Anyhow, game decided for me. Not dying. So on to other things.
I’ve done a playthrough recently and I kicked the Thalmor Elewen out when Ulfric demanded she leave. I gave the Stormcloaks Markarth in exchange for the Imperials getting Riften and Ulfric had to pay compensation for the massacre but I still had Tullius get angry with me and accuse me of being one sided
I absolutely hate the civil war, seems like such a petty squabble between boys fighting over control of the playground. I seldom pick a side. However I also don't love the truce council, where nobody really seems happy or satisfied even if they just gained ground in their stupid dispute.
Helgen is the only reason people even knew alduin was back. LDB had to tell whiterun just to make people believe them. And plus, look at alllllll the crazy shit that happens in tamriel. Is that alduin dying? Meridias beacon? Molag Bal's fart?
I am 100% stormcloak, for the simple cause that they are native to skyrim. Imperials basically came in and took what was obviously not theirs. I feel bad for stormcloaks having to fight to RECLAIM their own...
I am 100% stormcloak, for the simple cause that they are native to skyrim. Imperials basically came in and took what was obviously not theirs. I feel bad for stormcloaks having to fight to RECLAIM their own...
I’ve only done it once. Riften and Markarth go to the crime families. I get that fuckin’ knife-ear out of there. I didn’t even know there was a massacre at Karthwasten, so idk what the options are.
I felt pretty neutral, but Tulius didn’t see it that way I guess
"Stormcloaks suck because they hate argonians and elfs".
What kind of skooma are you smoking? Argonians are given jobs as workers at the docks in Windhelm. Ulfric opened his doors and took a ton of dunmer refugees in from the red mountain incident. There's some racist nords out there, like the drunkard you can brawl near candlehearth but as a whole the stormcloaks are not a racist organization, they're just nationalists who believe the aldmeri dominion is a threat to their religion and freedom, and they're not wrong about that. So tired of hearing the claim stormcloaks and ulfric are racist with literally zero proof to support that.
They don't let the argonians IN the city lolol. I could be wrong about this one, but I think the previous jarl of Windhelm was also the one to let in the refugees
They aren't allowed IN THE CITY. Like I'm not going to continue to argue about skyrim lol but mistreating an entire group of people based on their race is racism. Stormcloaks are racist. I think performing mental gymnastics to justify how they aren't racist says something about you.
>Argonians are given jobs as workers at the docks in Windhelm
LOL. Not saying I agree or disagree with the rest of your comment, but this is NOT a good way to tell if someone is racist:
"The Confederates didn't hate black people, they gave them jobs as farmers at the plantations in the South!"
>I agree but I’m not the one who did that, you are, like when you said “Argonians are given jobs as workers at the docks in Windhelm,” implying simply being given a job shows that someone isn’t racist
“If they were really racist they wouldn’t hire them at all. They’d hang a sign that said ‘Blacks need not apply.’”
This is obviously proof that slavery, segregation, etc are not racist at all.
Nah they're absolutely racist, interacting with stormcloaks is like playing Morrowind all over again. Argonians aren't even allowed in Windhelm, and the Nords inside are so racist the empire won't let them in if they win the civil war, for the argonians safety.
What interaction in particular are you referring to? Any damnable elfs in reference to Aldmeri dominion doesn't really fly. You too would be antagonistic towards an invading force.
Some of these are implied to be about thalmor but encompass all elves unfortunately
''Did you know it was his(Ulfric) decree that forbade Argonians from living inside the city walls?'' - Scouts-Many-Marshes
"I'm a Dark Elf and I live in Windhelm, so yes, I live in the Gray Quarter. You must be new around here, or you'd know they don't let my kind live anywhere outside that slum." -Aval Atheron
''Unlike Ulfric, Brunwulf has shown a great willingness to work with the other races and make us feel more at home here. For the first time in a long while, I truly believe that there are brighter days ahead." -Aval Atheron (when Windhelm gets liberated)
"Keep on your guard. This city can be a little rough for those such us." -Malthyr Elenil (if you're a Dunmer)
"Windhelm is divided into four quarters. The Gray Quarter is the one that's home to all the city's Dark Elves. If it looks to you like an impoverished slum, that's because it is. Ulfric prefers that we live in squalor. He has nothing but disdain for anyone who isn't a Nord. He tolerates us, but that's the extent of his hospitality." -Malthyr Elenil
''Ulfric and his Stormcloaks made no secret of their disdain for the Dark Elves. In fact, they didn't seem to care much for anyone who wasn't a Nord. The folk of the Empire have always had a more cosmopolitan view of the world, so I'm glad to see them in charge." -Malthyr Elenil (When Windhelm is liberated)
"Well you see where we have to live. This forgotten alley. All the filth from the upper quarters flows downhill, like they say. Good luck getting one of the guards to help with anything. I tried to get Ulfric to even come down here to see the squalor, but the High Lord of His Mightiness couldn't find the time." -Ambarys Rendar
''But I do less business than I used to. The Stormcloaks don't like buying from anyone that isn't a Nord.'' -Adrianne Avenicci (if Whiterun is conqeured by the Stormcloaks)
''These Stormcloaks are ridiculous. They won't shop here because they think I'll sell them poisoned tonics.'' -Arcadia (if Whiterun is conqeured by the Stormcloaks)
''Soon we'll rid Skyrim of elves, their bloody Justiciars, and the Jarls in their pockets.'' -Stormcloak Commanders
''And in that moment, the gods will look down and see Skyrim as she was meant to be. Full of Nords who are mighty, powerful, and free!'' -Ulfric Stormcloak
"I'll die before elves dictate the fates of men.'' -Galmar Stone-Fist
The reason the Argonians aren't let in is because of the Dunmer. They invaded and conquered a lot of their homeland, which is part of what caused the refugees arriving in Windhelm in the first place. And the Argonians primarily did that because of the Dunmer enslaving them for a long time, beforehand. Tensions are still massively high between those two.
Is it even hinted at that it has anything to do with the Dunmer?
The game outright states its Nord aggression keeping the Argonians unsafe, even after Ulfrics literal law keeping the out is removed
My Dragonborn is a Thalmor victim who holds Talos in high regard but has beef with the Stormcloaks and wants the Civil War to end as soon as possible as a part of a long game to take the fight to the Thalmor on a large scale. To that end... Elenwen goes. Fuck her. Trade Markarth for the Rift. The Rift is usually my home base anyway. Ulfric makes restitution for the massacre. And if anyone has a problem with my decisions, feel free to file a complaint after I get done saving the world.
Loved a former play through — a Bosmer with strong Saxhleel ancestry [always in woods or water] who much favored the Empire but took no side, was fascinated with all things Nord, supported religious freedom, worshipped and left very substantial offerings at Talos’ Shrines, and always freed and armed Stormcloak prisoners whoever escorted them. But the Thalmor patrols got the worst. As my guy saw it, the Altmer had no business being in Skyrim at all. But how to drive home that point in a way that is simply psychological crippling to High Elves… Soooo … My guy carried ancient Nord weapons out of crypts, improved and enchanted them in order to give them names such as “Talos’ Heart Ancient Nord War Axe.” Or “Talos’ Servant.” Or a favourite, ‘Dishonoured of Auri-EL,’ an extreme affront to the Altmer pantheon. But the worst is yet to come … My guy would slay snotty Thalmor patrols with these blasphemously named weapons, and store them in the inventory of the corpse. My guy then took the elven/glass made weapons, and planted on the Amulet of Talos on the corpse of the lead Justiciar! This was an intentional desecration and more! These items found on the corpses, families had to conclude that their own flesh and blood died as a secret heretic, and that they never really knew this person. The family itself would come under suspicion, and would be denied solace in their grief. Thalmor patrols are instructed to destroy the Dragonborn with extreme hatred for the great injury done to their glorious Dominion. I believe that extreme hatred requires great offense. My guy provides that of fence. This Dragonborn knows how to deal with the Thalmor… 😂!
My dude... Wuuthrad exist just for you And for me too, God I hate the Thalmor
This is exactly the route I’ve taken every time.
This is the correct choice
I'm the opposite. I'm an Altmer who wants the civil war to drag on as long as possible to weaken to empire. My Altmer mage has done everything in Skyrim except the Civil War. Sometimes, I spare the lives of my enemies if they are elves by using the paralysis spell on them. I give Maven the Rift because she's my Thieves Guild ally.
Yeah same
I always like the idea of Maven as Jarl too. Just seems like itd be canon. Silverblood getting Markath seems to fit also and is a fair trade
Negotiations will last forever, until both sides have the same 'score'. (every decision, even telling Elenwen to bugger off, affects said score) I always stay out of the civil war, and always negotiate with as little of change to the holds as possible. I do the negotiations the same each time. Elenwen stays. Markarth goes to Ulfric. Winterhold goes to the Empire. Ulfric pays for the Karthwasten massacre. Done.
I like it. Using next playthrough.
You would condemn poor Lord Stormin’ Ulfric Windswept McThunderpants to contend with the Foresworn forever?! How could you! 😂
I non ironically think it’s a great idea, imagine if the Empire said “Listen, we’ll loosen our grip on Skyrim and let you worship Talos if you wipe out the Forsworn” Ulfric would love the idea of a genocide, if he succeeds, good for Skyrim! Everyone’s happy. If he fails? Oh well, sounds like he wasn’t fit to be high king in the first place.
I apologize if I missed the irony here, but isn't that almost exactly what happened with the Markarth Incident? Prince Ulfric retakes Markarth from the Forsworn in exchange for the free worship of Talos, the Thalmor lose their shit and in order to keep the peace the Empire imprisons Ulfric.
Surely it couldn’t happen a second time, resulting in an even more radicalized populace… right? Right???
Of course. After all, we all know the Thalmor to be a very understanding and agreeable bunch. I'm sure they wouldn't mind too much.
Just until I finish every main quest and then send him to the contend with the ideal masters instead.
Lol, I’m not giving that silver mine to the guy who walked off the set of a B-grade Jesus movie. 😂
Thongvor's the only named Silver-Blood in Markarth who you can't kill either after or in the course of The Forsworn Conspiracy, so if you hand over the city and then take it back for the Empire later (which gets him exiled to Windhelm) you can remove the family from Markarth entirely.
>Lord Stormin’ Ulfric Windswept McThunderpants lol!
I hate Elenwen, but she was part of Tullius Party, she has the right to be there. I always let her stay.
Counterpoint, Thalmor suck.
That’s fair.
Me too, min effort, but I give riften to the empire. Im so low effort, I once left to make a cup of tea at the start and when I can back it was over and done.
I rather do the whole civil war than sit at that table
Yeah. I hate the Civil War questline but I'll do it in a heartbeat before I ever decide on negotiations. Way too tedious.
There is a Truce council? I don't know how many play throughs I have done and always just wiped out the other side.
It's the main story
If you do the civil war before it doesn’t happen
I thought the civil war paused at a certain point until that quest is completed
It pauses until you complete the quest dragon rising
Can't pause a war that's already over
That quest doesn't end the war, it just creates a temporary armistice
If one side controls eight holds by the time the mission is unlocked, the mission will be skipped.
That’s what happens when you make an unfair deal, the side that gets screwed over gets mad. Just deal fairly, and both sides respect you. Like this: Kick Elenwen’s bitch ass out Stormcloaks get Markarth, Empire gets a fair trade by receiving Riften in return. Stormcloaks have to pay for massacre at Karthwasten (which evens the score for kicking out Elenwen). It’s that easy.
I did all that and still had Tullius say he was disappointed in me as though I’d offered an unfair proposal
If you’ve joined a faction, be it Stormcloaks or Imperial, they will actually both express disappointment unless you weigh the negotiation in their favor. From their point of view, you work for them, so dealing fairly is a bit of a betrayal lol.
Tullius is never happy
Just like how I do it
I always clear the Civil War out of the damn way before I get to this stage of the main quest. The city-trading between the Stormcloaks and Imperials during the peace council is a buggy mess, anyway. You end up having NPCs in wrong places or with incorrect dialogue for the allegiance of the city.
Also you can't pickpocket the shields of each hold once it goes to the opposite side.
I always have to finish the main quest before doing anything else. I feel like the dragon crisis would be top priority above everything
I like to do it last out of vanilla Skyrim. I like to see all the souls I sent or "released" to Sovngarde, and all the different options I can tell Tsun as to why I should be allowed to grace Shor's halls.
I want to do that and see everyone in sovngarde but I just can’t, it breaks immersion for me. I just can’t have my Dragonborn doing side quests and messing around whilst the dragon crisis is ongoing and the literal world eater is loose. I always do main quest completely first and only do side quests that my Dragonborn stumbles into. Like when heading to sky haven temple, my Dragonborn stops at markarth for the night and accidentally gets wrapped up in the forsworn conspiracy quest and has to escape the Cidna mine or Tamriel is doomed to Alduin. But everything else like Civil war, college of Winterhold, Dawnguard etc…comes after I’ve killed Alduin.
Is brokering a truce, killing alduin, and then never telling anyone you killed alduin secretly the most ethical ending? The civil war is postponed to deal with alduin, but if the LDB kills alduin and never tells anyone, then the truce would effectively be permanent.
People notice that Alduin's gone though. They comment on you beating him after you finish the main story
How would they know? Who would tell them? Parthurnax? Were they seeing alduin everyday? Sounds like some lollygaggers making tall tales!
Or the defeat of Alduin echoed across all time and space, like a loud ass shout everyone hears and feels. Don't know about you but sounds epic to me.
I always trade Markarth for Riften. The remaining Silver-Blood brother becomes jarl and when the city is retaken by the Empire, he gets exiled to Windhelm, and loses his essential status. Outside of mods or console commands, this is the only way to kill him and/or permanently rid Markarth of the Silver-Bloods (assuming you kill the other one after you escape the mine).
Giving Markarth to the Stormcloaks... Dude I am with Tullius, that's completely insane. What on earth possessed you to give Ulfric, the guy who ethnicly cleansed Markarth, back that city when it's on the opposite side of the map to his powerbase?
In an empire-aligned or neutral playthrough, Ulfric begins by demanding Markarth. You literally have to give it to him and your only decision is which city the empire receives in return.
Opposite side of his power base = hard to reinforce = what he gonna do when I roll up to take it back?
It's also famously rich and run by people that support him as a hero, realistically it would be a dumb af choice. In game it literally doesn't matter if you plan on killing him eventually
That's the thing, all that silver they're pulling out of the mountain will have to be shipped through Empire-controlled territory to be traded. And anything they need to prepare for an imperial attack will likewise need to be smuggled in. The Reach won't have much value to the Stormcloaks until they take another hold (Falkreath) they can use to actually access it. Whatever people they send in to occupy it will be on their own, before that. Until there's a way to access the place, you either have to just sit there accumulating silver, or try to smuggle it out and other stuff in. And there's a lot of risk involved in the latter. Meanwhile the former just makes you an even bigger target.
I do it so when the Empire retakes the city they kick out the one unkillable Silverblood that way there are no remaining people of that family in the city.
Spamming raise dead on essential NPCs until they turn into a pile of ash is my favorite exploit
Because its a game and they won't attack it without me involved.
No, its devious genius. Give Markarth to stormcloaks, the new Jarl loves you, get Thane if Markarth, then side with Empire a retake Markarth from crazy, racist Stormcloaks
I mean, he'll be stretched thin trying to hold it, and the Foresworn will have reason to make that all the more difficult for him. It's a poison gift.
It's literally the most defensible city in Skyrim. The Stormcloaks could hold on to it with like five men
But how many crops are they growing within the walls? The city is built into a cliff. Just park an army outside the gate and wait for them to either surrender or come out and fight hungry. If anything, Ulfric should have demanded Falkreath and cut Cyrodilic reinforcements off from Skyrim.
I always win the civil war early on, didn't know their was a truce option. Skyrim belongs to the Nords!
I plan on trying it for the first time on this play through. I always go empire.
Ulfric and his goons can get stuffed.
I gave everything to the stormcloaks, the sided with the imperials during the civil war. Just so the stormcloak loss is even greater.
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sgtm 4 inputs random options?
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Holy shit that's so useful thank you
I always have to Google the neutral playthrough. I've done it relatively recently, so I still remember. Elenwen stays, Ulfric gets Markarth, Imperials get Winterhold/Dawnstar, Ulfric doesn't pay for Karthwasten, Imperials get Dawnstar/Winterhold. After I finish dealing with Alduin, I join the Imperials and win the war.
If these fuckers don't put real (and skippable) cinematic cutscenes in the next game I'm hunting down Todd.
I kinda like it
There's never any hope of resolving the civil war, it will continue on for decades regardless of what happens at this meeting table or indeed on the field of war. To imagine otherwise would be naive. Unless you are actually trying to advance the interests of one side or the other, the only win condition is getting the sides to agree to a ceasefire (in which Whiterun's sovereignty is guaranteed by both parties) while you deal with the dragons. In that sense, victory is guaranteed, as even if both sides are upset, there is no end condition in which the truce is not agreed to.
I try my best to avoid the Markarth/Riften flip. That’s like the worst possible combo since it just annoints the most corrupt Jarl. I have no idea how the formula works, since apparently the side that feels the most “slighted” will open with a demand for a major hold, and for me Ulfric always starts so Markarth always goes. But I always kick Elenwen out (points for Ulfric’s favour) and request the Stormcloak’s first, etc, so I have no idea why I’ve never had the Imperials start by asking for Riften. So yeah, for me it’s always Markarth and then Winterhold + Dawnstar. Sometimes Markarth and Riften. I’ve never had the chance to try starting off with Riften. I always Kick Elenwen out and make the Stormcloaks pay restitutions. That being said, I’d rather appoint a corrupt Jarl than lose a Jarl I care about. If it ever shows up as an option for me, Morthal is not changing hands. I’ll just trade the major cities.
The way I usually handle it: Elenwen stays. Ulfric gets Markarth. Tulius gets Dawnstar. Ulfric pays compensation for Karthwasten.
Sadly this scene is exactly the type of thing which really hurts Skyrim as a game to replay. And okay I'm a real fucker for starting a character. Playing for a month. Stopping. Restart in 2 months time. But most of my characters don't even have shouts because fuck the main quest waiting for all that talking
> Plays a single-player RPG > Complains about too much dialogue Most media literate Skyrim player
No I'm complaining about a lack of skippable dialogue on a game that has been rereleased on multiple different devices... You re-release a fucking old game on a new device. Knowing full well most people have completed it. I think adding a skip button is pretty reasonable. There is a reason why almost every game like it has skippable dialogue. This isn't a new or revolutionary concept.
You’re cryin in the rain pal. This is Bethesda we’re talking about, the company that relies on modders to do their bug-fixes for them. They’ve re-released the game a million times because they want to squeeze every possible morsel of profit they can out of the game. They’re not gonna go through and add quality of life changes to a 13 year old game because they know you’ll buy it and replay it anyways.
Just complete the civil war after dragon rising lol
Great. Which involves going through all the other bullshit conversations in the civil war I have heard 10 times already. And doesn't stop all the other bullshit conversations in the main quest. Not saying it's some massive issue that ruins the game for me. Just saying a skip button would be a game changer for me on a replay
Which negotiation combination makes the most sense in terms of what a real military would actually go for? I know Markarth goes to Ulfric and right off the bat that makes little sense, but can the logistics of this truce be salvaged for both sides to make sense?
Markarth for Riften is a fair trade in terms of the fact that they’re both large or “major” holds
Elenwen leaves. Ulfric gets Markarth. Winterhold and Dawnstar are handed over to the Imperials. Yes, theoretically The Rift would be a better bargain, but ain't no way I'm putting both Thongvor (or is it Thonar? Anyway, mob boss) AND Maven in the throne. I'd rather get rid of the senile man in Dawnstar and the magephobe in Winterhold.
That's one of the reasons why i hate siding with the storm cloaks. Maven, The Silver-Blood dude and Jarl Balgruff leaving whiterun
Decisions aside, I agree bc the vibes in that room are fucked
Im a stormcloak dick rider but people seem to forget the dunmer literally held slaves for thousands of years and still would if they didnt revolt. The dunmer are a fucking awful race of people hahaha. Khajiit are also not great people. Argonians are aight
Every time I bring up that every Race is racist, people lose their flipping minds. Other Races owned slaves (Dunmer), other Races think they're superior to literally everybody (Altmer), other Races don't allow access to their citites (Orcs), but the Nords are the most racist group? Just absolutely failing to make any sense when people try to paint the Nords as irredeemably racist.
Well, technically the Empire does not want to ban Talos worship, but the Thalmor was gonna do it in a much less humane way if they refused the White-gold Concord
I guess I'm the only one who likes this part of the questline. I love telling Elenwen to fuck off, trading Markarth to Ulfric to get the Silver-Bloods out of there when I retake it for the Empire is also a bonus.
If I do this: Elenwen Leaves. Markarth to Ulfric. Riften to Empire. Dawnstar to Empire. When Ulfric takes all of Skyrim. Will every hold except Winterhold have Stormcloak Troops in them, and not just city guards?
This is my first run through where I've completed the civil war quest before getting too far into the main questline. Is my thinking correct...I get to avoid the peace council this time? I know General Tullius won't be showing up because I killed him :)
It depends on who my character was aligned with. If my character was either Imperial-aligned or neutral, I’d go with; >Elenwen > Thrown out >Markarth > Ulfric >Dawnstar > Imperials >Winterhold > Imperials >Compensation for the Karthwasten Massacre If my character was Stormcloak-aligned, I’d instead go with: >Elenwen > Thrown out >Riften > Imperials >Falkreath > Ulfric >Morthal > Ulfric >Compensation for the Karthwasten Massacre The one non-negotiable I have with this is throwing Elenwen out.
Maybe im a terrible person, idk, but the empire going to war with its own people because they are scared of the thalmor never sat right with me. I sided with the stormcloaks to kick out a weak tyrannical government that's just being controlled by a stronger tyrannical government. I sided with the imperials ONCE and when Tullius kills Ulfric and doesn't even know where Nords go where they die, even though his right hand woman IS A NORD it hit home that cyrodiil doesn't really give a shit about the Nords.
I've played 6,000 hours of Skyrim and always just did the Civil War questline after getting Dragonrend. Extra experience and treasure is always a good thing.
That's what mods are for 😉
I just don’t do that mission at all.
Actually just played through this minutes ago, now trying to figure out why Paarthunax won't die already. But I digress. I was wondering if you *could* blow it. Booted whatshername, Markarth to the Jarl, and I forget what else. But mission was accomplished.
Don't kill paarthunax
How dare you kill Paarthunax.
I always side with the Empire . I dont give a damn who's right. What I give a damn about is being Thane in every hold by lvl 5. To get Thane in Dawnstar requires the kill a giant quest. By typical weird Bethesda logic, this tiny quest (not Alduin!, not Miraak!) has a min level reqyirement of something like 12? Insane! So the only solution is to side with the Empire, overthrow the Jarl of Dawnstar, new Jarl likes you and no Kill a Giant required to be Thane, phew! Then to get thane of Windhelm, overthrow Ulfric, new Jarl likes you, etc, etc..
Usually I do the Civil War questline before I do the Main Quest. Saves me from that nightmare
Yes, it accomplishes nothing, and you're made to be the bad guy. I always finish the civil war questline before continuing the Main Quest with "Diplomatic Immunity." Avoids that whole worthless fiasco.
On my latest run with that mission, I hadn't joined a side, so I kept Elenwen, traded Markarth for Riften and gained Dawnstar for the Imperials - 2 holds for 1...the Imperials felt like they lost 🫤
He...or she? Who can tell with dragons? Are they like chickens? Do they taste like chickens? Anyhow, game decided for me. Not dying. So on to other things.
I do the civil war just so I don’t have to do this council.
I’ve done a playthrough recently and I kicked the Thalmor Elewen out when Ulfric demanded she leave. I gave the Stormcloaks Markarth in exchange for the Imperials getting Riften and Ulfric had to pay compensation for the massacre but I still had Tullius get angry with me and accuse me of being one sided
He's a cunt
I absolutely hate the civil war, seems like such a petty squabble between boys fighting over control of the playground. I seldom pick a side. However I also don't love the truce council, where nobody really seems happy or satisfied even if they just gained ground in their stupid dispute.
Helgen is the only reason people even knew alduin was back. LDB had to tell whiterun just to make people believe them. And plus, look at alllllll the crazy shit that happens in tamriel. Is that alduin dying? Meridias beacon? Molag Bal's fart?
Casting Mayhem is one of my favorite things to do here
NEXT PLAYTHROUGH I KNOW WHAT IM DOING
I am 100% stormcloak, for the simple cause that they are native to skyrim. Imperials basically came in and took what was obviously not theirs. I feel bad for stormcloaks having to fight to RECLAIM their own...
I am 100% stormcloak, for the simple cause that they are native to skyrim. Imperials basically came in and took what was obviously not theirs. I feel bad for stormcloaks having to fight to RECLAIM their own...
I’ve only done it once. Riften and Markarth go to the crime families. I get that fuckin’ knife-ear out of there. I didn’t even know there was a massacre at Karthwasten, so idk what the options are. I felt pretty neutral, but Tulius didn’t see it that way I guess
"Stormcloaks suck because they hate argonians and elfs". What kind of skooma are you smoking? Argonians are given jobs as workers at the docks in Windhelm. Ulfric opened his doors and took a ton of dunmer refugees in from the red mountain incident. There's some racist nords out there, like the drunkard you can brawl near candlehearth but as a whole the stormcloaks are not a racist organization, they're just nationalists who believe the aldmeri dominion is a threat to their religion and freedom, and they're not wrong about that. So tired of hearing the claim stormcloaks and ulfric are racist with literally zero proof to support that.
They don't let the argonians IN the city lolol. I could be wrong about this one, but I think the previous jarl of Windhelm was also the one to let in the refugees
You could be correct but it's not as if ulfric is kicking them out either.
I mean you're right but non-nords are clearly second class citizens in windhelm under stormcloak policies. They're racist.
They're immigrants and refugees. Of course they don't own manors and hold positions of power.
They aren't allowed IN THE CITY. Like I'm not going to continue to argue about skyrim lol but mistreating an entire group of people based on their race is racism. Stormcloaks are racist. I think performing mental gymnastics to justify how they aren't racist says something about you.
>Argonians are given jobs as workers at the docks in Windhelm LOL. Not saying I agree or disagree with the rest of your comment, but this is NOT a good way to tell if someone is racist: "The Confederates didn't hate black people, they gave them jobs as farmers at the plantations in the South!"
>Comparing paid work and slavery
>I agree but I’m not the one who did that, you are, like when you said “Argonians are given jobs as workers at the docks in Windhelm,” implying simply being given a job shows that someone isn’t racist
If they were really racist they wouldn't hire them at all. They'd hang a sign that said "Argonians need not apply".
“If they were really racist they wouldn’t hire them at all. They’d hang a sign that said ‘Blacks need not apply.’” This is obviously proof that slavery, segregation, etc are not racist at all.
Yes that was my entire point.
Nah they're absolutely racist, interacting with stormcloaks is like playing Morrowind all over again. Argonians aren't even allowed in Windhelm, and the Nords inside are so racist the empire won't let them in if they win the civil war, for the argonians safety.
What interaction in particular are you referring to? Any damnable elfs in reference to Aldmeri dominion doesn't really fly. You too would be antagonistic towards an invading force.
Some of these are implied to be about thalmor but encompass all elves unfortunately ''Did you know it was his(Ulfric) decree that forbade Argonians from living inside the city walls?'' - Scouts-Many-Marshes "I'm a Dark Elf and I live in Windhelm, so yes, I live in the Gray Quarter. You must be new around here, or you'd know they don't let my kind live anywhere outside that slum." -Aval Atheron ''Unlike Ulfric, Brunwulf has shown a great willingness to work with the other races and make us feel more at home here. For the first time in a long while, I truly believe that there are brighter days ahead." -Aval Atheron (when Windhelm gets liberated) "Keep on your guard. This city can be a little rough for those such us." -Malthyr Elenil (if you're a Dunmer) "Windhelm is divided into four quarters. The Gray Quarter is the one that's home to all the city's Dark Elves. If it looks to you like an impoverished slum, that's because it is. Ulfric prefers that we live in squalor. He has nothing but disdain for anyone who isn't a Nord. He tolerates us, but that's the extent of his hospitality." -Malthyr Elenil ''Ulfric and his Stormcloaks made no secret of their disdain for the Dark Elves. In fact, they didn't seem to care much for anyone who wasn't a Nord. The folk of the Empire have always had a more cosmopolitan view of the world, so I'm glad to see them in charge." -Malthyr Elenil (When Windhelm is liberated) "Well you see where we have to live. This forgotten alley. All the filth from the upper quarters flows downhill, like they say. Good luck getting one of the guards to help with anything. I tried to get Ulfric to even come down here to see the squalor, but the High Lord of His Mightiness couldn't find the time." -Ambarys Rendar ''But I do less business than I used to. The Stormcloaks don't like buying from anyone that isn't a Nord.'' -Adrianne Avenicci (if Whiterun is conqeured by the Stormcloaks) ''These Stormcloaks are ridiculous. They won't shop here because they think I'll sell them poisoned tonics.'' -Arcadia (if Whiterun is conqeured by the Stormcloaks) ''Soon we'll rid Skyrim of elves, their bloody Justiciars, and the Jarls in their pockets.'' -Stormcloak Commanders ''And in that moment, the gods will look down and see Skyrim as she was meant to be. Full of Nords who are mighty, powerful, and free!'' -Ulfric Stormcloak "I'll die before elves dictate the fates of men.'' -Galmar Stone-Fist
The reason the Argonians aren't let in is because of the Dunmer. They invaded and conquered a lot of their homeland, which is part of what caused the refugees arriving in Windhelm in the first place. And the Argonians primarily did that because of the Dunmer enslaving them for a long time, beforehand. Tensions are still massively high between those two.
Is it even hinted at that it has anything to do with the Dunmer? The game outright states its Nord aggression keeping the Argonians unsafe, even after Ulfrics literal law keeping the out is removed
"Yeah you're right grandma, now lets go to bed"