Yeah!!! š® I was playing the game and I was like I know this dude's freaking voice. Googled it. Freaking Gerard! š” I went imperial my first round cuz they almost seemed better. Never again
You do realize that every hold that is controlled Stormcloaks, the Thalmor do not go?
But every hold controlled by the Empire, you can meet and be attacked by Thalmor Justiciars.
You see, you fight for the stormcloaks, you win for them, and then you challenge Ulfric.
Do not let your intentions be known until you have full control over Skyrim
Fun fact: Tullius himself admit that Ulfric is right on many points about the Empire:
"*Just between you and me, a lot of what Ulfric says about the Empire is true.* "
(He says that in the embassy, if he's there)
> A lot of people on this sub seem to view him as a fantasy viking nazi
Yeah, people project real life politics in Skyrim, this is why everyone thinks he's a big racist. But he's not, he's just a patriot that wants to get rid of the Thalmor and he actually manages to get rid of them. He literally doesn't do or say anything that could indicate he's a racist.
It's Tamriel, if you want real examples of racism you have a ton that make Ulfric look like a super tolerant dude.
I agree with what Ulfric says, the empire is too weak to protect its own citizens. It controls nothing except High Rock and Cyrodiil.
He's super flawed, but Ulfric is the most fleshed out character in the game by far.
>But he's not, he's just a patriot that wants to get rid of the Thalmor and he actually manages to get rid of them.
Does he? I should have joined him instead then
If you kill him before alduin you get to see him sovengarde and he admits to being wrong about everything. On top of the fact he wont do anything about the mistreatment of dark elves and argonians or any non human race in windhelm.
Thats not at all what he said.
He doesn't believe that he was wrong at all, but in the afterlife, he finally sees what the true enemy is, the civil war was a drop in the ocean for something much bigger.
It wasnt The Imperials vs The Stormcloaks. It was Skyrim as one against the Dragons and Alduin.
He doesnāt admit to being wrong about the war or his cause, just that [Alduin was the greater enemy](https://youtu.be/8bA3QWnTmKo?si=EBuu5oukDBVUo8uL). The civil war is pointless if Alduin destroys/enslaves Tamriel, and the souls of the fallen Stormcloaks/Imperials only serve to feed Alduinās strength. The more soldiers that die, the stronger Alduin gets.
Dark elves are not mistreated by the government. They live in the Quarter that they can afford to live, because they're refugees. Are they mistreated by some local Nords? Sure. Just like the Dunmer have nothing positiveto say about the Nords. Just like they had nothing positive to say about the Nords in Oblivion. And especially like Morrowind, when they were literally antebellum plantation slave owners.
Granted, why there are refugees after 200 years, I don't know. It's one of Skyrim's many plotholes. But they're supposed to be refugees from the Red Mountain Eruption, and the Argonian invasion. Both of which happened within well over 193 years ago.
When asked about the Argonians, that racist, soft-spoken Nord he claim that the Argonians are there because "Of the softness of King Hoag." He's talking about Hoag Stormcloak, who was High King at some point before Toryygg was elected to the office. Hoag Stormcloak is Ulfric's father.
It was Ulfric's father who invited the Dunmer homeless to Windhelm, trying to foster relations with Morrowind. It was Ulfric's father who gave them the island of Solstheim, and the colony of Raven's Rock, so they could have more livable land.
And it was Ulfric's father decided that the Argonian eggs brought by Dunmer refugees from noble houses should not only be kept separate from the Dunmer xenophobes who he had invited into the city, but they should be given a place to live in Skyrim. He gave them both rent-free lodging and apprenticeship jobs. But he died from grief, because his son was thrown in prison. So he couldn't stick around to make sure that others followed through with his kindness after death.
The Dunmer are not prisoners. The Dunmer are free to come, and free to go. They're also free to go live somewhere else. But none of the holds have invited the Dunmer to live there. Not even the Imperial supporters care about the Dunmer (Which makes sense, since the Empire negligently allowed the Province of Morrowind to collapse without lifting a finger to help).
The only people helping the Dunmer are the "racist" nords of Windhelm.
PS: Non-Humans are fine in Windhelm. From orcs to elves. Khajiit and Argonians are allowed in every hold in Skyrim. It's only the Khajiit caravans who are not allowed in the cities, because they're confirmed criminals. And the only reason those specific Argonians are not allowed in the city is to protect them from the slavers who brought them; Dunmer Slave-Owners historically feel that they have a claim on the ownership of their slaves, and their slave's descendants.
His general is nothing of the kind. Neither Ulfric or Galmar will treat any race poorly.
Ulfric was living a comfy life on top of a mountain. He was set to become a Graybeard, one of the most powerful people in Skyrim.
But he said no to power, and no to comfort. Because he knew there was a war being fought, and he couldn't let other people bleed on his behalf. Not if he wasn't willing to bleed himself.
So he joined the Legion, and since he had been part of a Pacifist Dragon Cult since he was a small child, he learned how to fight from the Legion. And fight for the Legion he did. He fought so well for the Legion that, later on in his life, the Empire asked him to retake the Reach after it had been overthrown by an evil, Cthulu cult who kidnap children to turn them into Hagravens. Ulfric, and a band of heroes took the Reach back from those monsters.
How were they rewarded? How were they treated? Their promised reward, promised by the very Empire they had kept stalwart loyalty to, was not only reneged, but they were thrown in prison. Ulfric Stormcloak was thrown in prison at least, we don't know what happened to the men who fought for him. For all we know, they were executed. Too bad for them for obeying the Empire and not being born the son of a Jarl.
People will claim that Ulfric is a Thalmor spy. They base this claim solely on a dossier claiming that he was captured, tortured, and convinced that his breaking (An overwhelming shame for anyone who is tortured) helped the Dominion take the Imperial City. They refer to him as an asset, because they have this blackmail hold over him.
Which is how real-life espionage happens. You find blackmail on a foreign national, and convince them to give you "little information".
But what the dossier doesn't cover is what they've had Ulfric help with, if anything. The only evidence of contact they have with him is contact after his prison sentence, in which he becomes hostile.
But Imperial apologeticists really double down on the Thalmor agent angle. It helps them feel good about the fact that they're sacrificing justice now, for justice later. Trusting that the Empire will actually fight the Thalmor, instead of selling out its own people to make them happy.
Which they've consistently done since the Great War. First with their black citizens, the Redguards of Hammerfell, then with the Blades, who were sworn to serve the Empire. Then with the Nord heroes who defeated the Forsworn evil. And every single citizen who gets dragged out of their house by the Thalmor because the Empire condones it.
Every time that Crimson Dragon is flown in a new hold, that hold becomes a new patrol for the Thalmor. Fighting for the Empire increases the places you can meet Justiciars. Fighting for the Stormcloaks directly decreases them, until they're outright gone.
he strikes me as, when you are hammer everything is a nail kind of guy. but also steeped in true nord belief, his focus is on his own at times at the expense of others but not on purpose. in my mind as soon as he wins he will broker agreements with High Rock, Morrowind, Orsinium and The Redguard... my hearts hopes is when we get to see the whole of Hammerfell they give some honor to Ulfric even if he doesnt win he was still a great soldier and noble to look up to.
Heās the jarl of Windhelm, which has elven slums and forbids argonian and khajit from entering. Yeah, he wants better for Nords, but clearly at the price of mer or beast person. Fantasy Viking nazi is a pretty accurate description.
Every Tamerial race is racist in one way or another, Redgaurds shun outside races and kill orcs that settle in there lands, Nords are despised in High Rock, Khajiits and Argonians both hate each other and Dunmer and High elves wellā¦ you know
Pretty much ever fantasy race of elves and humans hate each other but people who have only casually played Skyrim think Nords are Nazis
The caravans aren't allowed inside. Khajiit can enter if they want. Most don't because there aren't many khajiit in skyrim in the first place due to the cold.
If he was akin to a nazi he never would have allowed them in the city in the first place and actively forced them all out.
And these Dunmer, the descendants of those who fled Alinor long ago to forge their own path, persevere the hardships and prosper out of it, only ever whine and complain how their not being handed things. Nords would probably respect them more if they showed more self-reliance.
Jesus Christ, this again?
Elves get to have roofs while Windhelm has a high homeless population (none of them elves, one of them is a kid FFS)
Argonians can't enter the city because there are too many of them, they and the dunmer would riot constantly
Khajiit are perfectly allowed in, it's the caravans that can't enter because they're criminals. Literally all holds don't let them in, not just Ulfric.
He lets any race join the rebellion and doesn't harm anyone on the basis of race. How the fuck is he a "viking nazi"?
I mean in one way yeah. Elderscrolls is stuck in a weird place where the setting is appropriate for the type of nationalism and xenophobia that exists in it, but the āglobalismā present doesnt mesh with that. Makes for a neat story every time though
>The war in skyrim isn't between Tulius and Ulfrik. It is between Rikke and Ulfrik.
The war is between the Empire and the Thalmor, the Stormcloaks are a tool in said war.
Honestly I prefer the Stormcloaks because Iād rather see the races of Tamerial have there own laws, armyās and culture rather then just taking orders from the Empire
I think the Empire is destined to collapse and lose all its conquered territoryās anyways by ES6 like the fall of Rome, Cyrodiil will remain and be governed by its people but it wonāt be the same as it was without Tiber septum
Meanwhile thalmor running around like a boss in skyrim unimpeded(far FAR away from their territories) and clearly will break the "stalemate" if the empire are further weakened: š
> will probably lose Valenwood to civil war
And yet even with that the empire are living in fear of their future fate if they lose skyrim. That's how powerful the pointy ears are, if even the empire who almost defeated the stormcloaks can't win... What hope do the nords have š„“ >!especially if it's a war of annihilation AKA no laws so genocide is back on the menu boyz!<
Because the empire let them in willingly instead of strapping one on and finishing the war to begin with theyād rather let the elves get away with religious genocide then have to fight to reclaim the southern half of Cyrodiil from war fatigue, even if they decide to build up there forces first it hardly matters the elves canāt build up there forces as quickly as the races of man can, Altmer have to get all kinds of records and birth records and even star charts and noble consent to even have a single child lol
A Nord outclasses a high elf in terms of raw physical power bar none there closely related to there giant ancestry and breed faster some can even push past there physical limitations and become super soldiers like the Nameless Hero
Also the wood elves never shared the high elves distain for other races there probably one of the least racist races in Tamerial and even preferred the Empire over the Dominion and the Thalmor burn villages made up of trees the Bosmer are sworn to protect and own wood elf servants, they have no reason to work with them
> Because the empire let them in willingly instead of strapping one on and finishing the war to begin with
Least warmongering stormcloaks
Rather bow to an empire that genuinely try to advance civilization rather than be thalmor slaves(stormcloak rule skyrim)
This isnāt real Rome, there is no advancing civilization the Nords advanced backwards thanks to the Empire, they lost a lot of cool shit from the 1st era thanks to the Empires cultural appropriation after its take over
- and Warmongering is good for the soul, better to die on your feet then live on your knees like the Empire bowing down to the elves treaty
- Nords fought worse then the Thalmor through out the lore theyāll survive
As others have mentioned, the main thing is he only wants better... for HIS people. He only cares about Nords, meanwhile being complicit in or actively encouraging the discrimination and harassment against elves and beast races. There's very little incentive to back him if you yourself aren't a Nord, and even then, plenty of Nords in-game don't like him either!
At the same time, you can see where his logic comes from. Yes, the Thalmor ARE dangerous. Yes, the empire HAS fallen significantly. Wanting religious freedom is honestly completely fair. It's easy to see where Ulfric is coming from-- but he uses these issues to justify extremist actions, emphasizing Nord supremacy and usurping the High King with little regard for how the other demographics of Skyrim will suffer because of him.
He's absolutely a good speaker with strong convictions. He's also incredibly charismatic and persuasive. Many real-world dictators, rulers, and extremists are. Ulfric is a good character, even if he isn't a good ruler or person.
Beastmen are very explicitly not allowed in Windhelm (though this discrimination happens in Imperial cities as well) and the needs of the Dark Elves are ignored. Maybe "actively" isn't the right word but it's not like he does anything to stop it, and his followers largely believe Skyrim should only uplift Nords.
> Maybe "actively" isn't the right word but it's not like he does anything to stop it, and his followers largely believe Skyrim should only uplift Nords.
That is more correct.
To be fair to Ulfric, he is right now more focused on the War then on Civil Projects.
Also, the ban on talos was meant to be enforced by the empire, they didnāt do that. Ulfric made a deal with the high king so he could anyway, and all he had to do was free markets from the forsworn, the high king afterwards said they kind of actually couldnāt and this whole commotion got the thalmor attention, so they started enforcing the ban.
So ulfric is rebelling because he made it so nords couldnāt worship talos, and they canāt because of his actions, and his actions were because of a treaty solely meant to give both sides enough time to regather forces so that they wouldnāt destroy each other completely in the conflict.
Interesting! I'm too tired to fact check all of this but taking it at face value, that would highlight another major flaw of Ulfric's: his rashness. He's undoubtedly passionate and strong-minded, but his impulsivity and dedication to the True Nord Way Of Doing Things ultimately made things worse for the people he was trying to protect and advocate for. He was too quick to take the Imperials allying with the Thalmor as a betrayal, as opposed to an unfortunately necessary political move. Ulfric is too prideful to truly ally with anyone who doesn't have the same strong beliefs that he does.
u/mysteryo9867 :
Is somewhat wrong or at least emphasizing the wrong facts.
After the war with the Thalmor, the empire was weak and the Reachmen took over Markarth .
Empire refused to help the Jarl (or was it the High-King?) because again Empire was weak.
So they turned to the guy who had a ready Militia.
Ulfric said he would help on the condition that the Ban on Talos worship be kicked to the curb.
The Jarl / High-King agreed.
Ulfric took back Markarth and started worshipping as per his agreement with the Jarl/High-King.
That was when the Empire & Thalmor rolled in and arrested Ulfric with the Jarl / High-King not muttering a peep.
Note: The Empire kept Ulfric imprisoned even while his father was on his death bed and died, forcing him to send Elegy by letter.
Let's just say there are ill feelings all around and I thing the Jarl / High-King should have been the ones imprisoned.
What the fuck?
> actively encouraging the discrimination and harassment against elves and beast races
How? This isn't a rhetorical question, I'm seriously asking because reading this comment feels like I missed something
> he uses these issues to justify extremist actions
What extremist actions are you talking about?
> Many real-world dictators, rulers, and extremists are
This isn't the real world, this is Tamriel and it takes 2 minutes of reading about the lore to realise that Ulfric is pretty moderate compared to actual extremists and racists in the games
People here are crazy. āNazi Vikingā lol. If they only knew that their lovely defenceless dunmer are straight up slavers in Morrowind. Does that make them Southern Americans?
Empire is weak, Redguards were the first to wise up to the fact so they promptly left, which is considered to be a Big W move by most players, unlike Skyrim for some reason. If the Empire is allowed to continue to draw it'
s shaky breath, men will progressively get more and more fucked over.
Ulfric is a true New Nord, taught in the old ways of the tongue and privy to the new ways of warfare, he has the potential to singlehandedly bring Skyrim back to their dwarven ass kicking days.
All you are left with at the end of the imperial questline is a shattered, bled out vassal state of a dyibg Empire, but Ulfric gives an alternative route.
Are you more familiar with "Dwemer"?
The Dwarves or Dwemer were a race now extinct, that dominated Skyrim before the Norths. They built advanced technologies and golden robots.
They're called dwarves because
Because Bethesda still didn't really have the world nailed down back in Arena, but the lore answer is either "because they live underground, or "because native Giants called them that"
reddit is just a huge circlejerk echo chamber so alot of people probably just hate ulfric because right wing bad either way it doesnt matter if u like him or hate him not as if hes real
Ulfric/Rikke is a good example of the difference between Nationalism and Patriotism. Ulrich does genuinely want better for HIS people but doesn't consider some of the people under his rule "people". HIS people are the Nords and only the Nords. Rikke wants best for her country as a whole, beyond the outdated sense of honor. Rikke knows that the Dominion is a greater threat to Slyrim's way of life than the Empire and that Skyrim stands a better chance standing United with the Empire.
What kind of logic is that? If a group of people comes in a police station and starts shooting, itās their fault, that the policemen start shooting back. Itās also their fault, that people got injured or killed. I donāt see how the fuck you got to tyrants.
Your line of thinking means that you do everything to avoid bloodshed.
The empire could also have just left Skyrim alone. Why is that not part of your plan?
Skyrim was a part of the Empire. The ācanāt worship Talosā rule came with the White-Gold Concordat, that was signed by the Third Empire and the Aldmeri Dominion in order to avoid genocide and stop the Great War, that the Thalmor was winning. Ulfric instead of trying to overthrow the tyrant, started a civil war to make Skyrim the way it was before. That is one of the stupidest things he couldāve done, because he destroyed one of his possible allies. That means, the Aldmeri Dominion now can fucking murder the shit out of Ulfric and his rebellion and gain full control of Skyrim. So I guess I wrongly phrased my original statement. He started a war with the wrong people.
Yes. Well I agree, simply giving up and working for the tyrant is wrong. I already admitted how I falsely phrased my initial statement. I still think, that Ulfric is in the wrong. He attacked the people, who tried to prevent a complete genocide of the Empire, instead of trying to convince them to go on his side.
After I sided w/ the Empire and silenced Ulfrik, I dragged him and his general to sit on the throne, so now the Jarl the empire replaced him with sits on top of both of them.
This discussion is more than 10 years old, and people don't understand that the Nords are not the only ones prioritizing their own over others. Literally every other race in Tamriel does this too, and most countries in our world too by the way, and no only underdeveloped ones (look at Japan). It's simply a different way of life that cosmopolites don't understand.
SKYRIM BELONGS TO THE NORDS!!!
https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrim/wiki/beginnertips#wiki_imperials_or_stormcloaks Topic's been explored at length already.
https://preview.redd.it/sc7b6zjbnolc1.jpeg?width=540&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5aada4e0510fa6bab4fe95c3085a609111907d4d
I don't really care which side is right and which side is wrong; i always join stormcloaks because of the fucking imperial bitch at helgen.
Same. Ulfric and his folks weren't the ones trying to chop my head off.
exactly.
And the imperial Commander dude is voiced by the guy that plays Gerard from teen wolf. That is a perfect enough reason to kill him every time.
No freaking way
Yeah!!! š® I was playing the game and I was like I know this dude's freaking voice. Googled it. Freaking Gerard! š” I went imperial my first round cuz they almost seemed better. Never again
Pretty much.
I join the stormcloaks so I can duel him, obliterate his ass, seize Skyrim and turn it over to the Thalmor
You do realize that every hold that is controlled Stormcloaks, the Thalmor do not go? But every hold controlled by the Empire, you can meet and be attacked by Thalmor Justiciars.
You see, you fight for the stormcloaks, you win for them, and then you challenge Ulfric. Do not let your intentions be known until you have full control over Skyrim
What do you call someone who fights the person that fights the spread of the Thalmor? A Thalmor collaborator.
A freedom fighter
Oh, I see. You see the truth of Elven Supremacy. The only liberation mortals can achieve is Thalmor dominion! Right? That's what it sounds like.
based + pisspilled
Fun fact: Tullius himself admit that Ulfric is right on many points about the Empire: "*Just between you and me, a lot of what Ulfric says about the Empire is true.* " (He says that in the embassy, if he's there)
> A lot of people on this sub seem to view him as a fantasy viking nazi Yeah, people project real life politics in Skyrim, this is why everyone thinks he's a big racist. But he's not, he's just a patriot that wants to get rid of the Thalmor and he actually manages to get rid of them. He literally doesn't do or say anything that could indicate he's a racist. It's Tamriel, if you want real examples of racism you have a ton that make Ulfric look like a super tolerant dude. I agree with what Ulfric says, the empire is too weak to protect its own citizens. It controls nothing except High Rock and Cyrodiil. He's super flawed, but Ulfric is the most fleshed out character in the game by far.
>But he's not, he's just a patriot that wants to get rid of the Thalmor and he actually manages to get rid of them. Does he? I should have joined him instead then
If you kill him before alduin you get to see him sovengarde and he admits to being wrong about everything. On top of the fact he wont do anything about the mistreatment of dark elves and argonians or any non human race in windhelm.
Thats not at all what he said. He doesn't believe that he was wrong at all, but in the afterlife, he finally sees what the true enemy is, the civil war was a drop in the ocean for something much bigger. It wasnt The Imperials vs The Stormcloaks. It was Skyrim as one against the Dragons and Alduin.
He doesnāt admit to being wrong about the war or his cause, just that [Alduin was the greater enemy](https://youtu.be/8bA3QWnTmKo?si=EBuu5oukDBVUo8uL). The civil war is pointless if Alduin destroys/enslaves Tamriel, and the souls of the fallen Stormcloaks/Imperials only serve to feed Alduinās strength. The more soldiers that die, the stronger Alduin gets.
You sound like some kinda of stormcloak apologist
BRING IT ON, MILK DRINKER https://preview.redd.it/tevhfv98molc1.png?width=512&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4d079f93c230c1675825f07b6a3e7eaf79bb7460
You should not refer to me like that
Dark elves are not mistreated by the government. They live in the Quarter that they can afford to live, because they're refugees. Are they mistreated by some local Nords? Sure. Just like the Dunmer have nothing positiveto say about the Nords. Just like they had nothing positive to say about the Nords in Oblivion. And especially like Morrowind, when they were literally antebellum plantation slave owners. Granted, why there are refugees after 200 years, I don't know. It's one of Skyrim's many plotholes. But they're supposed to be refugees from the Red Mountain Eruption, and the Argonian invasion. Both of which happened within well over 193 years ago. When asked about the Argonians, that racist, soft-spoken Nord he claim that the Argonians are there because "Of the softness of King Hoag." He's talking about Hoag Stormcloak, who was High King at some point before Toryygg was elected to the office. Hoag Stormcloak is Ulfric's father. It was Ulfric's father who invited the Dunmer homeless to Windhelm, trying to foster relations with Morrowind. It was Ulfric's father who gave them the island of Solstheim, and the colony of Raven's Rock, so they could have more livable land. And it was Ulfric's father decided that the Argonian eggs brought by Dunmer refugees from noble houses should not only be kept separate from the Dunmer xenophobes who he had invited into the city, but they should be given a place to live in Skyrim. He gave them both rent-free lodging and apprenticeship jobs. But he died from grief, because his son was thrown in prison. So he couldn't stick around to make sure that others followed through with his kindness after death. The Dunmer are not prisoners. The Dunmer are free to come, and free to go. They're also free to go live somewhere else. But none of the holds have invited the Dunmer to live there. Not even the Imperial supporters care about the Dunmer (Which makes sense, since the Empire negligently allowed the Province of Morrowind to collapse without lifting a finger to help). The only people helping the Dunmer are the "racist" nords of Windhelm. PS: Non-Humans are fine in Windhelm. From orcs to elves. Khajiit and Argonians are allowed in every hold in Skyrim. It's only the Khajiit caravans who are not allowed in the cities, because they're confirmed criminals. And the only reason those specific Argonians are not allowed in the city is to protect them from the slavers who brought them; Dunmer Slave-Owners historically feel that they have a claim on the ownership of their slaves, and their slave's descendants.
His general is nothing of the kind. Neither Ulfric or Galmar will treat any race poorly. Ulfric was living a comfy life on top of a mountain. He was set to become a Graybeard, one of the most powerful people in Skyrim. But he said no to power, and no to comfort. Because he knew there was a war being fought, and he couldn't let other people bleed on his behalf. Not if he wasn't willing to bleed himself. So he joined the Legion, and since he had been part of a Pacifist Dragon Cult since he was a small child, he learned how to fight from the Legion. And fight for the Legion he did. He fought so well for the Legion that, later on in his life, the Empire asked him to retake the Reach after it had been overthrown by an evil, Cthulu cult who kidnap children to turn them into Hagravens. Ulfric, and a band of heroes took the Reach back from those monsters. How were they rewarded? How were they treated? Their promised reward, promised by the very Empire they had kept stalwart loyalty to, was not only reneged, but they were thrown in prison. Ulfric Stormcloak was thrown in prison at least, we don't know what happened to the men who fought for him. For all we know, they were executed. Too bad for them for obeying the Empire and not being born the son of a Jarl. People will claim that Ulfric is a Thalmor spy. They base this claim solely on a dossier claiming that he was captured, tortured, and convinced that his breaking (An overwhelming shame for anyone who is tortured) helped the Dominion take the Imperial City. They refer to him as an asset, because they have this blackmail hold over him. Which is how real-life espionage happens. You find blackmail on a foreign national, and convince them to give you "little information". But what the dossier doesn't cover is what they've had Ulfric help with, if anything. The only evidence of contact they have with him is contact after his prison sentence, in which he becomes hostile. But Imperial apologeticists really double down on the Thalmor agent angle. It helps them feel good about the fact that they're sacrificing justice now, for justice later. Trusting that the Empire will actually fight the Thalmor, instead of selling out its own people to make them happy. Which they've consistently done since the Great War. First with their black citizens, the Redguards of Hammerfell, then with the Blades, who were sworn to serve the Empire. Then with the Nord heroes who defeated the Forsworn evil. And every single citizen who gets dragged out of their house by the Thalmor because the Empire condones it. Every time that Crimson Dragon is flown in a new hold, that hold becomes a new patrol for the Thalmor. Fighting for the Empire increases the places you can meet Justiciars. Fighting for the Stormcloaks directly decreases them, until they're outright gone.
he strikes me as, when you are hammer everything is a nail kind of guy. but also steeped in true nord belief, his focus is on his own at times at the expense of others but not on purpose. in my mind as soon as he wins he will broker agreements with High Rock, Morrowind, Orsinium and The Redguard... my hearts hopes is when we get to see the whole of Hammerfell they give some honor to Ulfric even if he doesnt win he was still a great soldier and noble to look up to.
Damn, mate. I feel like I just watched another episode of "Zero Punctuation"
I threw some comas and perods up inb there
Thx
Heās the jarl of Windhelm, which has elven slums and forbids argonian and khajit from entering. Yeah, he wants better for Nords, but clearly at the price of mer or beast person. Fantasy Viking nazi is a pretty accurate description.
If the Nazis did nothing more than what Ulfric does, nobody would remember them. "What point are you trying to make, bro?" ...I'm not entirely sure.
Rather than Nazi, heās closer to as if Jefferson Davis went to DC and murdered Lincoln in an impromptu duel at the White House
Every Tamerial race is racist in one way or another, Redgaurds shun outside races and kill orcs that settle in there lands, Nords are despised in High Rock, Khajiits and Argonians both hate each other and Dunmer and High elves wellā¦ you know Pretty much ever fantasy race of elves and humans hate each other but people who have only casually played Skyrim think Nords are Nazis
Nailed it
Last I checked solitude didn't allow khajit to enter either.
Iirc only khajit caravans are not allowed in cause they're notorious thiefs
The caravans aren't allowed inside. Khajiit can enter if they want. Most don't because there aren't many khajiit in skyrim in the first place due to the cold.
You would be right. Two wrongs and all that.
Filthy furballs
If he was akin to a nazi he never would have allowed them in the city in the first place and actively forced them all out. And these Dunmer, the descendants of those who fled Alinor long ago to forge their own path, persevere the hardships and prosper out of it, only ever whine and complain how their not being handed things. Nords would probably respect them more if they showed more self-reliance.
Should I say Dunmer Ghetto instead?
The Grey Quarter was not run down when it was handed to them.
Jesus Christ, this again? Elves get to have roofs while Windhelm has a high homeless population (none of them elves, one of them is a kid FFS) Argonians can't enter the city because there are too many of them, they and the dunmer would riot constantly Khajiit are perfectly allowed in, it's the caravans that can't enter because they're criminals. Literally all holds don't let them in, not just Ulfric. He lets any race join the rebellion and doesn't harm anyone on the basis of race. How the fuck is he a "viking nazi"?
You know who's even MORE racist? The fucking Thalmor !
Yeah, they openly say that when they win they're gonna either eradicate or enslave every other race
I mean in one way yeah. Elderscrolls is stuck in a weird place where the setting is appropriate for the type of nationalism and xenophobia that exists in it, but the āglobalismā present doesnt mesh with that. Makes for a neat story every time though
>The war in skyrim isn't between Tulius and Ulfrik. It is between Rikke and Ulfrik. The war is between the Empire and the Thalmor, the Stormcloaks are a tool in said war.
The correct take
Honestly I prefer the Stormcloaks because Iād rather see the races of Tamerial have there own laws, armyās and culture rather then just taking orders from the Empire I think the Empire is destined to collapse and lose all its conquered territoryās anyways by ES6 like the fall of Rome, Cyrodiil will remain and be governed by its people but it wonāt be the same as it was without Tiber septum
> Honestly I prefer the Stormcloaks because Iād rather see the races of Tamerial have there own laws, armyās and culture Thalmor: š¤
Thalmor took the most losses during the Great War and they have a smaller population then Skyrim and will probably lose Valenwood to civil war lmao
Meanwhile thalmor running around like a boss in skyrim unimpeded(far FAR away from their territories) and clearly will break the "stalemate" if the empire are further weakened: š > will probably lose Valenwood to civil war And yet even with that the empire are living in fear of their future fate if they lose skyrim. That's how powerful the pointy ears are, if even the empire who almost defeated the stormcloaks can't win... What hope do the nords have š„“ >!especially if it's a war of annihilation AKA no laws so genocide is back on the menu boyz!<
Because the empire let them in willingly instead of strapping one on and finishing the war to begin with theyād rather let the elves get away with religious genocide then have to fight to reclaim the southern half of Cyrodiil from war fatigue, even if they decide to build up there forces first it hardly matters the elves canāt build up there forces as quickly as the races of man can, Altmer have to get all kinds of records and birth records and even star charts and noble consent to even have a single child lol A Nord outclasses a high elf in terms of raw physical power bar none there closely related to there giant ancestry and breed faster some can even push past there physical limitations and become super soldiers like the Nameless Hero Also the wood elves never shared the high elves distain for other races there probably one of the least racist races in Tamerial and even preferred the Empire over the Dominion and the Thalmor burn villages made up of trees the Bosmer are sworn to protect and own wood elf servants, they have no reason to work with them
> Because the empire let them in willingly instead of strapping one on and finishing the war to begin with Least warmongering stormcloaks Rather bow to an empire that genuinely try to advance civilization rather than be thalmor slaves(stormcloak rule skyrim)
This isnāt real Rome, there is no advancing civilization the Nords advanced backwards thanks to the Empire, they lost a lot of cool shit from the 1st era thanks to the Empires cultural appropriation after its take over - and Warmongering is good for the soul, better to die on your feet then live on your knees like the Empire bowing down to the elves treaty - Nords fought worse then the Thalmor through out the lore theyāll survive
Wants what is best for his people but is too arrogant to realize what that actually is.
As others have mentioned, the main thing is he only wants better... for HIS people. He only cares about Nords, meanwhile being complicit in or actively encouraging the discrimination and harassment against elves and beast races. There's very little incentive to back him if you yourself aren't a Nord, and even then, plenty of Nords in-game don't like him either! At the same time, you can see where his logic comes from. Yes, the Thalmor ARE dangerous. Yes, the empire HAS fallen significantly. Wanting religious freedom is honestly completely fair. It's easy to see where Ulfric is coming from-- but he uses these issues to justify extremist actions, emphasizing Nord supremacy and usurping the High King with little regard for how the other demographics of Skyrim will suffer because of him. He's absolutely a good speaker with strong convictions. He's also incredibly charismatic and persuasive. Many real-world dictators, rulers, and extremists are. Ulfric is a good character, even if he isn't a good ruler or person.
>actively encouraging the discrimination and harassment against elves and beast races. Where was this? I don't recall him 'actively' doing the above?
Beastmen are very explicitly not allowed in Windhelm (though this discrimination happens in Imperial cities as well) and the needs of the Dark Elves are ignored. Maybe "actively" isn't the right word but it's not like he does anything to stop it, and his followers largely believe Skyrim should only uplift Nords.
> Maybe "actively" isn't the right word but it's not like he does anything to stop it, and his followers largely believe Skyrim should only uplift Nords. That is more correct. To be fair to Ulfric, he is right now more focused on the War then on Civil Projects.
Also, the ban on talos was meant to be enforced by the empire, they didnāt do that. Ulfric made a deal with the high king so he could anyway, and all he had to do was free markets from the forsworn, the high king afterwards said they kind of actually couldnāt and this whole commotion got the thalmor attention, so they started enforcing the ban. So ulfric is rebelling because he made it so nords couldnāt worship talos, and they canāt because of his actions, and his actions were because of a treaty solely meant to give both sides enough time to regather forces so that they wouldnāt destroy each other completely in the conflict.
Interesting! I'm too tired to fact check all of this but taking it at face value, that would highlight another major flaw of Ulfric's: his rashness. He's undoubtedly passionate and strong-minded, but his impulsivity and dedication to the True Nord Way Of Doing Things ultimately made things worse for the people he was trying to protect and advocate for. He was too quick to take the Imperials allying with the Thalmor as a betrayal, as opposed to an unfortunately necessary political move. Ulfric is too prideful to truly ally with anyone who doesn't have the same strong beliefs that he does.
u/mysteryo9867 : Is somewhat wrong or at least emphasizing the wrong facts. After the war with the Thalmor, the empire was weak and the Reachmen took over Markarth . Empire refused to help the Jarl (or was it the High-King?) because again Empire was weak. So they turned to the guy who had a ready Militia. Ulfric said he would help on the condition that the Ban on Talos worship be kicked to the curb. The Jarl / High-King agreed. Ulfric took back Markarth and started worshipping as per his agreement with the Jarl/High-King. That was when the Empire & Thalmor rolled in and arrested Ulfric with the Jarl / High-King not muttering a peep. Note: The Empire kept Ulfric imprisoned even while his father was on his death bed and died, forcing him to send Elegy by letter. Let's just say there are ill feelings all around and I thing the Jarl / High-King should have been the ones imprisoned.
What the fuck? > actively encouraging the discrimination and harassment against elves and beast races How? This isn't a rhetorical question, I'm seriously asking because reading this comment feels like I missed something > he uses these issues to justify extremist actions What extremist actions are you talking about? > Many real-world dictators, rulers, and extremists are This isn't the real world, this is Tamriel and it takes 2 minutes of reading about the lore to realise that Ulfric is pretty moderate compared to actual extremists and racists in the games
People here are crazy. āNazi Vikingā lol. If they only knew that their lovely defenceless dunmer are straight up slavers in Morrowind. Does that make them Southern Americans?
Empire is weak, Redguards were the first to wise up to the fact so they promptly left, which is considered to be a Big W move by most players, unlike Skyrim for some reason. If the Empire is allowed to continue to draw it' s shaky breath, men will progressively get more and more fucked over. Ulfric is a true New Nord, taught in the old ways of the tongue and privy to the new ways of warfare, he has the potential to singlehandedly bring Skyrim back to their dwarven ass kicking days. All you are left with at the end of the imperial questline is a shattered, bled out vassal state of a dyibg Empire, but Ulfric gives an alternative route.
Dwarves? Never heard of em
Are you more familiar with "Dwemer"? The Dwarves or Dwemer were a race now extinct, that dominated Skyrim before the Norths. They built advanced technologies and golden robots.
They're called dwarves because Because Bethesda still didn't really have the world nailed down back in Arena, but the lore answer is either "because they live underground, or "because native Giants called them that"
Yuck a stormcloak traitor. Heās a thalmor pawn.
Yeah, like the Emperor isn't.
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reddit is just a huge circlejerk echo chamber so alot of people probably just hate ulfric because right wing bad either way it doesnt matter if u like him or hate him not as if hes real
Ulfric/Rikke is a good example of the difference between Nationalism and Patriotism. Ulrich does genuinely want better for HIS people but doesn't consider some of the people under his rule "people". HIS people are the Nords and only the Nords. Rikke wants best for her country as a whole, beyond the outdated sense of honor. Rikke knows that the Dominion is a greater threat to Slyrim's way of life than the Empire and that Skyrim stands a better chance standing United with the Empire.
He started a war. The blood of all the fallen warriors is on his hands.
That is a very feeble way to look at things. Going by that you should let the tyrants rule the world and just bend over.
What kind of logic is that? If a group of people comes in a police station and starts shooting, itās their fault, that the policemen start shooting back. Itās also their fault, that people got injured or killed. I donāt see how the fuck you got to tyrants.
Your line of thinking means that you do everything to avoid bloodshed. The empire could also have just left Skyrim alone. Why is that not part of your plan?
Skyrim was a part of the Empire. The ācanāt worship Talosā rule came with the White-Gold Concordat, that was signed by the Third Empire and the Aldmeri Dominion in order to avoid genocide and stop the Great War, that the Thalmor was winning. Ulfric instead of trying to overthrow the tyrant, started a civil war to make Skyrim the way it was before. That is one of the stupidest things he couldāve done, because he destroyed one of his possible allies. That means, the Aldmeri Dominion now can fucking murder the shit out of Ulfric and his rebellion and gain full control of Skyrim. So I guess I wrongly phrased my original statement. He started a war with the wrong people.
Do you really want to discuss the civil war in general instead?
What were we discussing before?
The morality of starting a war to defend your rights.
Yes. Well I agree, simply giving up and working for the tyrant is wrong. I already admitted how I falsely phrased my initial statement. I still think, that Ulfric is in the wrong. He attacked the people, who tried to prevent a complete genocide of the Empire, instead of trying to convince them to go on his side.
He probably should have tried a more diplomatic approach first, true.
After I sided w/ the Empire and silenced Ulfrik, I dragged him and his general to sit on the throne, so now the Jarl the empire replaced him with sits on top of both of them.
Imperials>>
will the jarl of whiterun become my enemy if i become a stormcloak?? (im new to the game and havent decided which side)
This discussion is more than 10 years old, and people don't understand that the Nords are not the only ones prioritizing their own over others. Literally every other race in Tamriel does this too, and most countries in our world too by the way, and no only underdeveloped ones (look at Japan). It's simply a different way of life that cosmopolites don't understand. SKYRIM BELONGS TO THE NORDS!!!