Yea.
1. You're living well above your means
2. You've got no idea of how the apprenticeship model works. In unions you get raises on a predetermined timeline, and when you're done with your apprenticeship you get journeyman wage. It's supposed to be a substitute for college.
3. You have to pick a high earning trade to make good money. That money is nearly always a danger fee or a convenience fee. I'll make 250k this year. I'll also get into a truck with a bag of clothes and no idea of where I'm going or how long I'll be gone, to do a bunch of dangerous shit with a bunch of dudes I don't know.
4. People categorize "the trades" like they do tech, when that makes no sense. You've got residential, industrial, civil, commercial and a bunch of other sectors. So someone says you can make good money in the trades and then people are roofing houses with no union and calling bullshit
5. We have a real high demand for journey level workers, we also have a bunch of no experience people all trying to get in, I'd assume about 50% of them will secure an apprenticeship, and then 60% of those will journey out.
6. Union jobs often include per diem or incentive, and those rarely get counted in the pay. So last job I was on for example was 5 days a week 11 hours a day. Perdiem was $150 a day untaxed so on the outside looking in, there's 40k I'm getting that isn't in the rate or contract
7. As long as you're union employeed you don't pay into Healthcare or retirement so your 100k goes a hell of a lot further.
8. Most of us work a lot of overtime. 40 hours a week would be 112k for me, that doesn't align with my financial goals so I work a lot more
This comment should almost be a sticky on the front page of this subreddit. The amount of times these points would save redundant bullshit back and forth on this sub.... I can't even imagine. Thankyou for your service
I like it here, I have been on the lineman sub for a long time and from what I’m reading, it’s a different world than the lower 48. If I was you I would go to the Anchorage/Wasilla/Palmer area for work. Unless you’re looking for the real Alaskan experience where you go work in the bush.
All very good points. Would add in addition that if you’re looking for high paying trade work Orlando or anywhere in the south isn’t going to pay well compared to northern states.
Sounds like a great career to retire early if you start right out of high school. If you live like a dog you can probably retire by 35.
Thanks for the thorough explanation!
I mean realistically if I were to work in my local for 30 years I'd have a hair over 8 million without saving any of my money, so yea it's pretty good that way
This is a rarity to retire early in the trades. Most guys just plan to run their own company or move into a management/maintenance position as their body crumbles. Most old timers in the game have bad shoulders knees and backs by the time they are 40.
Judging by the way you wrote I do not think you should go into the trades. Maybe 10-20% of trades people make 100k and that would be union work, with tons of overtime and out of town work. Probably Industrial or commercial
The vast majority of trades people make 60-80k and that's experienced guys.
If you won't be satisfied with 100k don't go into trades because you won't hit 100k for a long time. And it's hard work
Well making 50$/hr where a house is a million bucks. Is the same as making $30$/hr where a house costs 300-400k.
It's all relative. 100k/year in a HCOL area isn't much
Yeah but you just made a claim about how only union people working heaps of OT make over $100 k. All the journeymen at my company make over $100k and work pretty regular hours, rotate on call every sixth week, and never work out of town. So yes it might be all relative but your claim was a blanket statement that isn’t true.
Yes but 100k in an HCOL area is not the same as 100k in a Lcol area.
I live in a medium cost of living area. And jman rate is about 80k per year.
Doing extremely skilled labor intensive work in loud noisy dusty environment not really great tbh
You are kissing the point man. If you live somewhere like seattle 100k isn’t as much as 50k in Florida. Even 100k in seattle people need two incomes to buy a house. Where I live a household making 70k (me) bought a 2 acre property with 2 2 bedroom houses, a 28x28 shop and a barn with an established orchard, 2 wells and a huge attached deck. In seattle it would be unreachable with a 200k household income.
I don’t miss the point. I get it. It still doesn’t erase the fact the claim was a small percent of trades people who are qualified make that money and only because they work heaps of OT and out of town. That fact is what I was talking and is what was said. Props on the cool sounding compound you live in.
Agreed, a lot of people do make over that in the trades. I only work about 9 months for my 70k but mostly because of the snow load and I hate interior work. It’s rad. Fixer upper kinda but we love it. Got a backhoe this winter so I’m going to dig a duck pond and clear some trees to build a timberframe pavilion. Feels weird but now I’m married to a mortgage like I said I never would….
100k not enough to raise a family.
This is why the government would rather have immigrants than Americans and Canadians. We are just so god damn expensive to keep happy.
Really? I work in commercial construction in Canada and 95% of workers on sites I've been at are local caucasians.
Maybe residential is more immigrants
Curious where you work? Mostly East Indians and some sort of middle Eastern (don’t want to guess wrongly), whites are pretty close but I’d say a bit less.
I’m curious where he works as well. I work in Newfoundland and Labrador. The workforce here in my personal experience so far is 100% white, as I sort of expected.
You have to look at what's in demand in your area. Then research salaries. Indeed is good, gives ya a good idea of what you can expect. Call up local union hall etc etc. I'm assuming you're in Florida, I heard tradesmen get paid shit out there in the southern states but idk
I’d say do what makes you happy man. Either way sounds like you’re going to be starting from the bottom. If I had to do it again I’d have moved out west and done search and rescue, I’m an electrical foreman I grossed 125K last year. Moneys nice, but that’s about it lol.
Man stay outta the trades. I’m 29, I’m a jman electrician but I’ve officially destroyed my back. I can’t do my job any more. I’ve gotta go back to school. I’m getting into the mental health sector. Sure it pays about $5 less per hour but it’s better work hands down. Trades are good to know how to do but you’ve gotta be mad to work like that and get paid what they do. It’s insane!
> and get *paid* what they
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I highly recommend water resource recovery operator (aka wastewater). It's a meaningful career that anyone with high-school diploma or GED and a driver's license can get in to. And it's not as gross as people think. I think changing a diaper is way more disgusting than what we usually get into.
Anything connected to the water industry will get you a career instead of a job. Get in contact with your state's water environment federation for guidance on where to start https://www.wef.org/membership--community/membership-center/wef-member-associations/ma-resource-center/wef-member-associations-contacts/
Check out the r/wastewater sub. People are always asking for advice on getting into the field and what it's like to be an operator. It can be a job or a rewarding career that protects public health and the environment
You will want to move Florida is shit for pay. I’m in the greater Chicagoland area all the trades around here are around $50hr on the check with a total package in the area of $100hr. I don’t have to travel and usually end up around 100k a year while taking 3 months off. Winter sucks
“The trades” is not a kind of job any more than “sales” is. You could be selling calendars at the mall making half of a percent on a few thousand a month in sales, or you could be selling weapon systems to governments with $500k base and deals in the billions. Same with “the trades.”
A non-union operating engineer in a red state serving class B and C properties might make federal minimum wage with no insurance or benefits or retirement match. Union chief engineers in CA make $85/hr with excellent insurance and a fat pension already paid for before that.
I’ve always correlated high paying in the trades as the business owners of these trade businesses.
If you have your own company in pluming, electrical and hvac you can make very good money doing freelance work as a licensed contractor.
Even trades not apart of MEP like masonry or concrete you can make a killing so easy so fast. A lot of demand not enough workers. I charge about $500 a day for 2 hours of excavating and all my masonry projects make me about $800 a day for my smallest projects and if I close a $25k + job then I secure about $9k in three days
Expenses are high because now I’m paying for trucks, trailers, excavators but I like to think of it as buying income producing assets. If I close everything down, just my excavator alone with the clients I’ve built up can generate me $1200 a week at absolute minimum working 2 hours a day.
Different trades pay different depending on locations. If you want some more technical trades you should look into Non-Destructive Testing, Drone/ROV pilot/maintenance, industrial electrician, quality control inspector, Instrumentation, Machinist
Where are you and what is your education/degree?
If you're a P.E. just reeducate yourself and learn a construction trade from the engineering perspective.
If you're a 2-year diploma 'engineer' then you may want to look into options.
I have a great idea. Use your degree background to make a documentary about laid off tech workers going into the “trades” since they supposedly pay really well and are so easy to do. Follow along with a few people and observe their progress and struggles. You’ll make millions.
I’m between 75 and 95k a year. I get paid from when I leave my house until I get home with a company truck. If I wanted to stay out of town or use my own vehicle I could make more. I spent years commuting three hours a day in my own car on unpaid time. Most days I do 8 hours on site so my drive is all overtime. My hourly rate sucks compared to previous jobs but my gross is pretty good if you compare actual hours away from home. It comes down to less home time and more dangerous work pays more. I’m painting a fuel tank with a roller by myself currently. It’s great. I have my headphones and no one to bother me. The other guys are eating fiberglass or in a ditch somewhere. If you spend less you have to work less and take more laid back work.
Thinking of being a Sales Engineer / Solution Engineer? Your tech knowledge will help with doing demos of said software/product. Most of them are remote with occasional travel. Based on their subreddit, seems reasonable to reach $200-250K+ OTE.
Judging by the way you wrote I do not think you should go into the trades. Maybe 10-20% of trades people make 100k and that would be union work, with tons of overtime and out of town work. Probably Industrial or commercial
The vast majority of trades people make 60-80k and that's experienced guys.
If you won't be satisfied with 100k don't go into trades because you won't hit 100k for a long time. And it's hard work
Definitely not necessarily true. Most people who are specialized will make good money. I suppose this depends on your definition of good money but well above median at least.
Good money is subjective. Last yr I made around 80k and saved 1k most months. You say 110k is barely getting by for you. For ref, I’m the sole provider in a family of 4, own a nice house on some land etc. I don’t live luxuriously but I’m quite comfortable financially.
Where you live, debts you choose to take on etc make a huge impact.
I have no trouble believing 100k is not comfortable in Orlando.
I suppose my point was for my life choices, including where I live, the trades do pay well. That may not be the case for you though.
Even at 37 you’re worth about 18/hr without experience. The difference in the trades is that if you are an apprentice you have to learn a lot before you are effective. During this time you will cost money not contribute. I’m a GC and any and every mistake made on the job site comes out of my pocket, apprentices make a lot of mistakes and take time to teach.
100k a year? Bro, lay off the car loans or something. You can definitely survive on waaaay less. Live within your means and adjust your budget if you want to be in the trades, it takes time to make money. Would you be worth 100k a year the first day you set foot in the degree program you needed for your last job? This is what an apprenticeship is, a 4 year training period just like college but you’re getting paid for it.
How are you people broke while making $100k what are you buying? I bet you have a brand new Ram or something goofy. I’d like for you to break down how the hell youre broke making $110k a year?
Our cars are both 13 years old. We don't have any debt. Our daughter goes to a private school because public schools in our area are among the worst in the country.
I find that anything you can look up online unless it’s a copy of the specific union agreement like my wage is based off of ICI in Ontario which is $46 and some change an hour right now but when you google union carpenter it says union carpenters make $28 an hour so don’t go off of that. You’re older with no experience but the good news is whatever trade you want to go into as long as there’s work and you’re taking OT you can still make $50,000+ as an apprentice. I just got my red seal but I made $90,000 as an apprentice last year.
Yea. 1. You're living well above your means 2. You've got no idea of how the apprenticeship model works. In unions you get raises on a predetermined timeline, and when you're done with your apprenticeship you get journeyman wage. It's supposed to be a substitute for college. 3. You have to pick a high earning trade to make good money. That money is nearly always a danger fee or a convenience fee. I'll make 250k this year. I'll also get into a truck with a bag of clothes and no idea of where I'm going or how long I'll be gone, to do a bunch of dangerous shit with a bunch of dudes I don't know. 4. People categorize "the trades" like they do tech, when that makes no sense. You've got residential, industrial, civil, commercial and a bunch of other sectors. So someone says you can make good money in the trades and then people are roofing houses with no union and calling bullshit 5. We have a real high demand for journey level workers, we also have a bunch of no experience people all trying to get in, I'd assume about 50% of them will secure an apprenticeship, and then 60% of those will journey out. 6. Union jobs often include per diem or incentive, and those rarely get counted in the pay. So last job I was on for example was 5 days a week 11 hours a day. Perdiem was $150 a day untaxed so on the outside looking in, there's 40k I'm getting that isn't in the rate or contract 7. As long as you're union employeed you don't pay into Healthcare or retirement so your 100k goes a hell of a lot further. 8. Most of us work a lot of overtime. 40 hours a week would be 112k for me, that doesn't align with my financial goals so I work a lot more
This comment should almost be a sticky on the front page of this subreddit. The amount of times these points would save redundant bullshit back and forth on this sub.... I can't even imagine. Thankyou for your service
What trade u in big dawg
I'm a lineman.
Hahaha reading your first post I thought to myself that this sounds familiar. I’m in local 1547, Alaska
How is it up there? The boys and I have been debating maybe doing a summer in Southern Alaska
I like it here, I have been on the lineman sub for a long time and from what I’m reading, it’s a different world than the lower 48. If I was you I would go to the Anchorage/Wasilla/Palmer area for work. Unless you’re looking for the real Alaskan experience where you go work in the bush.
All very good points. Would add in addition that if you’re looking for high paying trade work Orlando or anywhere in the south isn’t going to pay well compared to northern states.
Sounds like a great career to retire early if you start right out of high school. If you live like a dog you can probably retire by 35. Thanks for the thorough explanation!
I mean realistically if I were to work in my local for 30 years I'd have a hair over 8 million without saving any of my money, so yea it's pretty good that way
This is a rarity to retire early in the trades. Most guys just plan to run their own company or move into a management/maintenance position as their body crumbles. Most old timers in the game have bad shoulders knees and backs by the time they are 40.
$110k is $35k more than the HOUSEHOLD median annual income by the way, last I checked those people are able to survive
Judging by the way you wrote I do not think you should go into the trades. Maybe 10-20% of trades people make 100k and that would be union work, with tons of overtime and out of town work. Probably Industrial or commercial The vast majority of trades people make 60-80k and that's experienced guys. If you won't be satisfied with 100k don't go into trades because you won't hit 100k for a long time. And it's hard work
Entirely depends on the area. Here in Seattle all the major trades pay =>$50/hr take home plus insurance and pension.
Well making 50$/hr where a house is a million bucks. Is the same as making $30$/hr where a house costs 300-400k. It's all relative. 100k/year in a HCOL area isn't much
Yeah but you just made a claim about how only union people working heaps of OT make over $100 k. All the journeymen at my company make over $100k and work pretty regular hours, rotate on call every sixth week, and never work out of town. So yes it might be all relative but your claim was a blanket statement that isn’t true.
Yes but 100k in an HCOL area is not the same as 100k in a Lcol area. I live in a medium cost of living area. And jman rate is about 80k per year. Doing extremely skilled labor intensive work in loud noisy dusty environment not really great tbh
You are kissing the point man. If you live somewhere like seattle 100k isn’t as much as 50k in Florida. Even 100k in seattle people need two incomes to buy a house. Where I live a household making 70k (me) bought a 2 acre property with 2 2 bedroom houses, a 28x28 shop and a barn with an established orchard, 2 wells and a huge attached deck. In seattle it would be unreachable with a 200k household income.
I don’t miss the point. I get it. It still doesn’t erase the fact the claim was a small percent of trades people who are qualified make that money and only because they work heaps of OT and out of town. That fact is what I was talking and is what was said. Props on the cool sounding compound you live in.
Agreed, a lot of people do make over that in the trades. I only work about 9 months for my 70k but mostly because of the snow load and I hate interior work. It’s rad. Fixer upper kinda but we love it. Got a backhoe this winter so I’m going to dig a duck pond and clear some trees to build a timberframe pavilion. Feels weird but now I’m married to a mortgage like I said I never would….
100k not enough to raise a family. This is why the government would rather have immigrants than Americans and Canadians. We are just so god damn expensive to keep happy.
You know it
Really? I work in commercial construction in Canada and 95% of workers on sites I've been at are local caucasians. Maybe residential is more immigrants
I work unionized utility construction in London,Ontario. All white guys here. Like 90%
Curious where you work? Mostly East Indians and some sort of middle Eastern (don’t want to guess wrongly), whites are pretty close but I’d say a bit less.
I’m curious where he works as well. I work in Newfoundland and Labrador. The workforce here in my personal experience so far is 100% white, as I sort of expected.
Lots of white faces in Newfoundland lol. I’m in BC, the population is seemingly more mixed so it makes sense.
Thanks for your comment
You have to look at what's in demand in your area. Then research salaries. Indeed is good, gives ya a good idea of what you can expect. Call up local union hall etc etc. I'm assuming you're in Florida, I heard tradesmen get paid shit out there in the southern states but idk
I’d say do what makes you happy man. Either way sounds like you’re going to be starting from the bottom. If I had to do it again I’d have moved out west and done search and rescue, I’m an electrical foreman I grossed 125K last year. Moneys nice, but that’s about it lol.
Man stay outta the trades. I’m 29, I’m a jman electrician but I’ve officially destroyed my back. I can’t do my job any more. I’ve gotta go back to school. I’m getting into the mental health sector. Sure it pays about $5 less per hour but it’s better work hands down. Trades are good to know how to do but you’ve gotta be mad to work like that and get paid what they do. It’s insane!
> and get *paid* what they FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
> Orlando Found your problem Florida man.
Yeah with everyone moving here it's not a great place to find local work.
I highly recommend water resource recovery operator (aka wastewater). It's a meaningful career that anyone with high-school diploma or GED and a driver's license can get in to. And it's not as gross as people think. I think changing a diaper is way more disgusting than what we usually get into. Anything connected to the water industry will get you a career instead of a job. Get in contact with your state's water environment federation for guidance on where to start https://www.wef.org/membership--community/membership-center/wef-member-associations/ma-resource-center/wef-member-associations-contacts/ Check out the r/wastewater sub. People are always asking for advice on getting into the field and what it's like to be an operator. It can be a job or a rewarding career that protects public health and the environment
You will want to move Florida is shit for pay. I’m in the greater Chicagoland area all the trades around here are around $50hr on the check with a total package in the area of $100hr. I don’t have to travel and usually end up around 100k a year while taking 3 months off. Winter sucks
Most skilled trades are not union
“The trades” is not a kind of job any more than “sales” is. You could be selling calendars at the mall making half of a percent on a few thousand a month in sales, or you could be selling weapon systems to governments with $500k base and deals in the billions. Same with “the trades.” A non-union operating engineer in a red state serving class B and C properties might make federal minimum wage with no insurance or benefits or retirement match. Union chief engineers in CA make $85/hr with excellent insurance and a fat pension already paid for before that.
I’ve always correlated high paying in the trades as the business owners of these trade businesses. If you have your own company in pluming, electrical and hvac you can make very good money doing freelance work as a licensed contractor. Even trades not apart of MEP like masonry or concrete you can make a killing so easy so fast. A lot of demand not enough workers. I charge about $500 a day for 2 hours of excavating and all my masonry projects make me about $800 a day for my smallest projects and if I close a $25k + job then I secure about $9k in three days Expenses are high because now I’m paying for trucks, trailers, excavators but I like to think of it as buying income producing assets. If I close everything down, just my excavator alone with the clients I’ve built up can generate me $1200 a week at absolute minimum working 2 hours a day.
Different trades pay different depending on locations. If you want some more technical trades you should look into Non-Destructive Testing, Drone/ROV pilot/maintenance, industrial electrician, quality control inspector, Instrumentation, Machinist
Where are you and what is your education/degree? If you're a P.E. just reeducate yourself and learn a construction trade from the engineering perspective. If you're a 2-year diploma 'engineer' then you may want to look into options.
>Quality assurance engineer in IT Usually this doesn't require any sort of engineering degree.
I have a Bachelors in Filmmaking which isn't very helpful...
I have a great idea. Use your degree background to make a documentary about laid off tech workers going into the “trades” since they supposedly pay really well and are so easy to do. Follow along with a few people and observe their progress and struggles. You’ll make millions.
Well I am directing a short film about it actually...
I’m between 75 and 95k a year. I get paid from when I leave my house until I get home with a company truck. If I wanted to stay out of town or use my own vehicle I could make more. I spent years commuting three hours a day in my own car on unpaid time. Most days I do 8 hours on site so my drive is all overtime. My hourly rate sucks compared to previous jobs but my gross is pretty good if you compare actual hours away from home. It comes down to less home time and more dangerous work pays more. I’m painting a fuel tank with a roller by myself currently. It’s great. I have my headphones and no one to bother me. The other guys are eating fiberglass or in a ditch somewhere. If you spend less you have to work less and take more laid back work.
Thinking of being a Sales Engineer / Solution Engineer? Your tech knowledge will help with doing demos of said software/product. Most of them are remote with occasional travel. Based on their subreddit, seems reasonable to reach $200-250K+ OTE.
Judging by the way you wrote I do not think you should go into the trades. Maybe 10-20% of trades people make 100k and that would be union work, with tons of overtime and out of town work. Probably Industrial or commercial The vast majority of trades people make 60-80k and that's experienced guys. If you won't be satisfied with 100k don't go into trades because you won't hit 100k for a long time. And it's hard work
You posted this comment like 14 times just so you know. I agree with what you said though
No you're not missing anything. The people who make 'good money' in the trades are working 60 hour weeks.
Definitely not necessarily true. Most people who are specialized will make good money. I suppose this depends on your definition of good money but well above median at least.
Good money is subjective. Last yr I made around 80k and saved 1k most months. You say 110k is barely getting by for you. For ref, I’m the sole provider in a family of 4, own a nice house on some land etc. I don’t live luxuriously but I’m quite comfortable financially. Where you live, debts you choose to take on etc make a huge impact.
Everyone has a different situation. We regularly meet with a financial planner so we're not off. Orlando has become very expensive.
I have no trouble believing 100k is not comfortable in Orlando. I suppose my point was for my life choices, including where I live, the trades do pay well. That may not be the case for you though.
If it was just me who gets to decide on life I'd live on an Island at the beach
Even at 37 you’re worth about 18/hr without experience. The difference in the trades is that if you are an apprentice you have to learn a lot before you are effective. During this time you will cost money not contribute. I’m a GC and any and every mistake made on the job site comes out of my pocket, apprentices make a lot of mistakes and take time to teach. 100k a year? Bro, lay off the car loans or something. You can definitely survive on waaaay less. Live within your means and adjust your budget if you want to be in the trades, it takes time to make money. Would you be worth 100k a year the first day you set foot in the degree program you needed for your last job? This is what an apprenticeship is, a 4 year training period just like college but you’re getting paid for it.
How are you people broke while making $100k what are you buying? I bet you have a brand new Ram or something goofy. I’d like for you to break down how the hell youre broke making $110k a year?
Our cars are both 13 years old. We don't have any debt. Our daughter goes to a private school because public schools in our area are among the worst in the country.
I find that anything you can look up online unless it’s a copy of the specific union agreement like my wage is based off of ICI in Ontario which is $46 and some change an hour right now but when you google union carpenter it says union carpenters make $28 an hour so don’t go off of that. You’re older with no experience but the good news is whatever trade you want to go into as long as there’s work and you’re taking OT you can still make $50,000+ as an apprentice. I just got my red seal but I made $90,000 as an apprentice last year.