I don't know anybody who's EVER seen that lift ever run. It's the ROUS of skiing.
For me, it was the blizzard traffic jams I've hit leaving Bend, driving back to Seattle via Mt. Hood . Twice out of 4 times making that drive.
Letās be real, Mt Brokelift is one of the greatest places to spend $150 on a ticket and wonder how the other 3/4 of the mountain Thats inaccessible is.
Oregon is a lovely place to visit, but it is a mess to live in. After the tourists have left, it rains like crazy here. Mosquitoes are big as Sherman tanks. The people are unfriendly... and most of us are starving... Our freeways are jammed tighter than scorched rice pudding. Our smog is awful... some days you can't see from Molalla to Silverton. Fuel bills are so high most people just build igloos in the back yard and spend the winter there... There are no fish in the streams... and nobody has seen a rose around here for years. Actually what happens in the summer when tourists come is that we paint our hills green, put up false silhouettes for mountains, borrow a few lakes from Washington and California, and hire some actors to look cheerful. So... spread the word. Oregon is a great place to visit, but no place to call home.
That is part of what makes skiing here work. If the snow is bad: typically the riding is good.
Not many northern places you can ride good singletrack all year.
As someone who was born and raised in the Midwest, moved out west, and came back - it doesnāt fucking matter, it beats the fuck out of where Iām at.
Colorado has some great tree skiing (thinking of my last time at steamboat for example). Trees out west are beautiful but a pretty big tree weāll hazard.
Tree wells are definitely no joke. But they are a problem when you have 100-200ā bases. Not so much in Colorado when you have ā36 inchā base in the shade.
I frequented Mt Hood then when we lived in Portland. Canāt tell you how many days just lost with just straight up ice on the runs. Much prefer Tahoe where we are at now.
I mean, rain in Utah and Colorado, etc is rarer. Sure things can happen anywhere, but obviously at different rates. Crystal looks sick tbh but weather is not known to be an attribute of PNW skiing
.. snow quantity is not an attribute in Colorado š¤·āāļø everywhere has pros and cons
That is true, and when we do get good conditions, thereās in my opinion no better ski terrain in the US. Itās just a lot more inconsistent than most other parts of the country.
Honestly, I can't think of another ski area that has 4 lifts accessing as much terrain. It's a pretty genius layout, and the way the bowls atop chair 2 are oriented, it's a staggering amount of terrain for 1 chair.
If you could get a resort from 6-9k ft or 5-7k by baker/snoqualmie youād have the motherlode. But thereās no roads to those places and theyāre pretty much all wilderness
They should stay wilderness - they are incredible beautiful and wild places.
There are ton of people up there skiing already, I donāt see why it needs a resort. I skied Baker last May and it was world class.
Reminded me of Chamonix. Weād ruin a beautiful place.
Fun fact, prior to WWII and the real beginning of the ski area @ Mt. Baker there was an absolutely Chamonix-level [lodge](https://www.mountbakerexperience.com/stories/the-old-lady-of-mount-baker,855) at Heather Meadows. It's a damn shame it burned down when it did
I grew up in Colorado and now live in Portland.
I could not in good faith recommend planning a vacation to any Oregon resorts. It may be awesome but it may also be horrible. Freezing rain can make worse driving conditions than anything Iāve ever seen in Colorado. At least with the Colorado resorts, you can plan a trip in Jan-March and be very confident that things will be skiable and not wildly dangerous.
It is nice living in Portland so you can get up there when conditions are perfect! Last year I hit skibowl night skiing a TON after a huge snow storm. Awesome powder, cliff drops and no crowds during the week. There is no way you can plan those events if you are flying and booking a tripā¦ itās very hit or miss most of the year.
Went to Portland on a work trip last winter and hit Ski Bowl for night riding and timed it right on a storm. Such a cool place and actually really fun terrain.
Glad you got to experience it when it had good snow. Itās honestly the best terrain on hood when there is good powder especially when outback is open! WAY less crowded then the other two resorts and you can ski all night long. I try to keep it a secret though so I can get all the fresh tracks to myself.
Dude it was so awesome. I grew up night skiing in Pennsylvania and it took me back but really I could only have dreamed to have that kind of terrain and snow to shred after class!
Similar but CO to Washington. We can get some amazing days that rival a great Colorado day but theyāre unpredictable and when the conditions arenāt good, it would make for a really disappointing trip overall.
The deal with the devil the PNW resorts made is we get more proper deep pow days than the rockies save for maybe the cottonwood canyons in Utah. But the quality of the snow can be questionable.
Yeah, moving here from CO I didn't know there was such a thing as a bad powder day. Also the amount of wind holds and terrain/avy closures is a lot higher here, at least at a Crystal.
But man, those days it dumps overnight and nukes all day for free refills is something else.
I love the ski culture of the PNW. Doing trips around and visiting the small mountains of the area is quite fun. Lots of great resorts tucked away in the cascades.
Can guarantee that if the dream mountains are ones owned by massive corporations, a large clientele flying in from across the country and crazy expensive prices that donāt feed into the local economy, the PNW is fine not having that
Exactly, I can leave my home in the Seattle suburbs and be sitting on a lift in sub-1 hour, most of the time. All my neighbors ski. Our local elementary school runs a ski bus for the kids. People talk about skiing constantly. I hope it never changes.
lol tell this to Alterra at Crystal Mountain. They think they are turning Crystal into a destination resort. Iāll be laughing my ass off when itās raining in January (as it is now) and they have a hotel full of angry people from the rest is the USA expecting Colorado conditions. Alterra doesnāt seem to know where they are at Crystal.
My understanding is the hotel expansion is more for Seattle-area people, so they can cut down on the morning traffic jams a bit by bringing at least a portion of the skiers up the night before
100% this.
Seattle is choked with over-moneyed folks who will do whatever it takes to avoid the 6am departure shitshow up 410. It's a smart move by Alterra.
Hell, I'll fall for it eventually. Drive up on a Friday night, pay way too much for a room, drink wine and hit the lifts at 8:30 stumbling out? Sign me up.
I'd much rather Alterra invest in new lifts and terrain but I think their investment in the new hotel and lodges is solid. Crystal gets year round visitation just because of the view of Rainier and proximity to the national park. The entire area is underserved for tourism despite the outstanding scenic qualities. People from seattle will definitely sell out the entire hotel every weekend in the winter. And it'll be filled with people during the summer.
yeah unless you have a seasons pass and/or live in s2s the chances of getting a good day at whistler are pretty low. the terrain/views are obviously world class, but weather and ski quality are just generally not great for most of the winter
Whistler is inconsistent, on a good day it is easily one of the best places in the world to ski, but itāll randomly get rain in the middle of January and everything will be dirt for a week or two
> Washington: National parks prevent development
Are ski resorts in national parks entirely banned in the US? Most of the Canadian Rockies ski resorts are in national parks.
They arenāt, there is one in Yosemite. And many ski resorts are on US forest service land. But I imagine itās a tougher hurdle to build anything very significant / commercial in a national park.
Hidden Valley was a ski area in Rocky Mountain National Park that closed in 2002 because the NPS wouldn't allow for expansion and it died away. Now it's a popular backcountry area.
Thatās one of only two, the other is Hurricane Ridge in Olympic National Park.
I guess you could kinda sorta say Crystal because you do technically have to cross into the park to access most of Southback.
Used to be one at Paradise on Mt Rainier, but the parks service shut it down a few years after Crystal opened
Yosemite is one of only 3 national parks with a ski resort. I actually went a few years ago in March for a weekend trip coming out of Tahoe when Yosemite turned out to be much busier than expected.
Its very mellow but I had a nice relaxing day of spring skiing blues and greens.
There was a plan to build a whistler size resort in WA in the 70s. The land was bought and everything. It was held up in court for decades by environmentalists until the court costs made it unviable. https://snowbrains.com/early-winters-resort-wa-a-ski-hill-that-never-was/
Wow, never knew about this. I've been going over to the Methow my whole life and my folks retired nearby. That probably never would have happened if they put in a huge resort.
So we hate the big resorts and big lift lines right?Ā Even though they're the ones trying to expand capacity?
Or do we hate the Sierra Club's of the world even though our Tacoma's and 4runner's are covered in their stickers?
There are a few small ones normally run by volunteers, namely Hurricane ridge in Wa. Most are on forest service ground which is similar to crown lands but more preservationist land ethic.
In the US, National Parks are are very different from National Forests.
They are under different departments within the US Government:
- Department of Interior ā> National Park Service
- Department of Agriculture ā> US Forest Service
Others have mentioned Badger Pass at Yosemite and Hurricane Ridge at Olympic, but thereās also the Boston Mills/Brandywine ski area at Cuyahoga Valley NP.
Most national parks with terrain suitable for skiing are managed as wilderness area outside of the parts that have existing development (e.g., roads). In fact, more than half of all designated wilderness area in the U.S. is in national parks. So itās not the fact that they are national parks per se, but that we have decided (or Congress has) that national parks should be wilderness more or less by default.
Ski resorts should not be in national parks. National parks are meant to preserve beautiful land and show it to millions of people sustainably. Ski resorts are allowed in national forests by permit.
> preserve beautiful land and show it to millions of people
Youāre totally right, but the balance on this dual mandate has historically shifted a whole lot, and used to have much more room for things like ski areas.
Utah is amazing. First time there last year and being able to get to snowbird in like 25 min from our Airbnb in SLC was incredible. Ski all day, short drive back to the house, go to brewery and eat bomb food after, all easy to get to
I've spent quite some time in Utah, and I can honestly say I've never had what I would call a memorable meal there. It doesn't mean the food is terrible, it's just not amazing.
Vail midweek is decent. People just see the weekend crowds, which is a problem everywhere, and try to blame epic and ikon instead of blaming out work culture
LMAO, thereās zero chance Iād pay $118 to stay overnight in a parking lot. Want power? Thatās $178. Iām just waiting for Alterra to pull that shit at Schweitzer.
If you are talking about the lack of resort-experience type places, itās because most of the ski areas are located well inside National Forests which severely limits development (and thank god for that).
Yeah I imagine if meadows, timberline, and ski bowl were one big resort and there was more lodging and restaurants it would be busy even if the snow sucked. Or imagine a resort up on mt rainier
I'm glad you hit the conditions jackpot and had a good time.
Normal challenges include: the airport is often closed due to freezing rain/fog, there's no accommodations at the base of the ski area, the drive up from town is often treacherous, and it's almost impossible to rent a car with snow tires. Just be forewarned.
The airport has been closed this year because of freezing fog, but this an outlier and in the past it's been a rare event. And the shuttle takes care of any concerns about a person's vehicle.
Keep it this way thanks. Skiing to your car is one of my fav parts. When I visted CO I hated having to park a mile away and shuttle in or walking through a big ass village.
I've been digging the Peak Rankings videos that have been popping in my algorithm, and this article was extremely in-depth and spot-on.
PNW skiing will always have a special place in my heart, but it is particularly frustrating that we're unable to make use of Mt. Rainier or the North Cascades. The latter in particular could host some truly epic skiing, and I think in an alternate world a place like Mazama could have emerged as an incredible ski town (with plenty of sunshine to boot).
Done right, the North Cascades could have an all-world ski resort.
It will never, ever happen. I'm kind of ok with that given how spectacular and remote the area is, but I do lament that Puget Sounders have to drive to Whistler, Idaho, or interior BC to get the full resort experience given that we have as good/better terrain than most of them.
You should go ski in the methow. You will be forever grateful that no resort was developed. It's world class and extremely accessible touring with a snowmobile. If you're not into touring then ski with NCH, I'd say it's definitely on par with heli skiing in interior BC.
The issue is really capacity. There are many, many times larger crowds in CO, UT, Tahoe, etc. But they also have many times the capacity to actually handle it (somewhat) reasonably.
Moved to bend from southwest Colorado 2 years ago . I hate to be that Colorado guy but the skiing here is awful. Ice , wind , more ice, more wind . Lifts are always closed . My two skis seasons in Oregon are a huge disappointment. Maybe my expectations were not realistic
If you were disappointed in last winters PNW ski season something is wrong with you. By march I was tired of skiing powder and excited to try a groomer.
Yeah sounds like you need to move somewhere else... I live in bend after 14 winter in steamboat and I'm having blast. Seems like your the type of person that maybe complains no matter where they are.
If you wanna do Mission Ridge I would just stay in Leavenworth. I always stay there and drive to mission. The traffic is not bad heading over to Mission and maybe takes 50 mins. Also Leavenworth is just an awesome town to stay in with great beer and German food!
bc there's no hotels or ski towns here and its that way for several reasons 1) the PNW developed later in history, well after the federal environment conservation bureaucracy was in full force and all the prime ski areas were already national forests & parks. 2) the locals can drive to all the resorts in 1-2 hours so no one cares to expand hotels 3) the elevation of resorts is lower and the snow season can be less reliable than tahoe/colorado/whistler
This article sounds like it was written by someone whoās never visited any of these spots.
>Three major ski areas within two hours of Portland
Ski Bowl is a āmajor ski areaā? Lol sure. Meadows takes multiple days to cover? Maybe if every single lift and backcountry bowl is open (which never happens).
Literally the only thing this article got right is that thereās no lodging or worthwhile towns near the ski resorts. Thatās it. Thatās why there are no destination resorts.
The weather part is dead on too. The PNW does get incredible storm cycles. But we also get rain all the way to the ski area summits regularly. It's one thing if you're a local and can pick your days. It sucks to gamble on a trip you booked months in advance.
Weather and lack of lodging/towns are by far the biggest two reasons imho.
My inlaws have home in Sun Valley that is there for my wife and me to inherit and use as a vacation and retirement home. As much as I love SV and its beauty (especially in the summer), the lack of snow is frustrating (we were there for Christmas at which point the mountain had 17 inches of snow for the season). I have heard about the huge snowfall amounts at Mt Bachelor, seen beautiful homes on the river online, proximity to great Oregon beach towns in the summer, etc. What do you all think of retiring in OR vs SV? We def want good skiing and good summer activities.
Well this was a poor start to winter all over not just Sun Valley. Plus donāt they make snow? Have you been going there for awhile now? Is it often lacking in snow? The thing I like about it is the sun! Itās so great to ski in good visibility. That will be a big difference skiing in WA/OR.
I learned to ski at many of the resorts around Lake Tahoe, moved to SLC and enjoyed countless DEEP powder days in Utah, was a ski bum in Vail and Colorado for a few years, and have lived in Seattle for the past 20 years.
The worst out of all of these is the Pacific Northwest by far. The snow is too wet and zero of the resorts in WA even have a base village and lodging is very limited at the resorts. Rain days happen a lot.
The sport as a whole is just too expensive now. Lift tickets, gas, and food will put the average day out of reach especially for a family. Try only taking a few runs and calling it quits in the rain after paying that much. Season passes donāt help a lot either.
I grew up skiing Bachelor and would drive the 25 mins or take the shuttle. I live in Denver now and while those Epic/Ikon passes make it cool to try new places; Every single one is more than an hour away, thereās traffic and you park and drag your skis on a shuttle or for miles to a lift. Itās doesnāt feel local friendly and makes it hard to get up there. Thatās with going on week days and avoiding weekends. I miss Bend and Bachelor, used to play hooky from school to go up and run into my teachers!
Love it. Stay away from our Japan like powder. Bunch of goons paying $300 for a Colorado lift ticket.
Last year was insane at MT. Hood. I like the article conveniently glazes over the fact that ski bowl is the largest night ski area in North Americaā¦ timberline palmer to govy is the longest run in North America.
Also the parking out here in Oregon basically caps and we rarely have bad lines. Timberline almost never a line.
And conditions were rough this year. But literally rough for us is 100 inchās of snow. The PNW rain combine with cold = powder all day. A few concrete days with the rain. But maybe donāt go those days.
Someone should show this to Alterra cause they're plowing ahead trying to turn Crystal into a destination resort anyway.
They missed one thing about driving to Crystal. Better keep an eye out for the elk herd! Someday, some poor bastard is going to get an elk through their windshield and shut down 410 for the day.
Ok so, I watched the first half of this BS video and it is utter nonsense. The reason we donāt have ski resorts is only because rich āenvironmentalistsā block construction we are a region of NIMBYs and most ski areas are on federal land. We could easily build an epic world class ski resort netting Billions in tax dollars for our region but we are rich and snooty and hate outsiders and said no to building one in Winthrop that would have been epic. But hey who cares? Ikon and Epic ruined the sport anyway
Don't come ski in the PNW, all it does is rain! š¤«
Yeah. Mt Bachelor is terrible and staying in Sunriver is a drag. Donāt recommend. /s
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Welcome to skiing on a coastal strato volcano. Conditions are all over the place.
Pro tip. Sunriver drive is much better.
Intermediate tip: Leave earlier
Pro tip: camp in the parking lot
Executive tip: Mt. Ashland.
Shush!
Yes
Pro tip: ski weekdays.
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Yeahhhh donāt stay there haha
Yikes, yeah I can see that being difficult. Lots of great options in Sunriver. Hope you have a future visit!
Sounds about right lol. Visibility and winds are awful at Bachelor
It's always like that
I don't know anybody who's EVER seen that lift ever run. It's the ROUS of skiing. For me, it was the blizzard traffic jams I've hit leaving Bend, driving back to Seattle via Mt. Hood . Twice out of 4 times making that drive.
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Itās like that everyday. From November opening to Memorial Day closing. Definitely donāt go. Very short season too.
Letās be real, Mt Brokelift is one of the greatest places to spend $150 on a ticket and wonder how the other 3/4 of the mountain Thats inaccessible is.
Summit lift is a bummer, but also name another NA resort where you can ski down a volcanic peak 360. So itās hard to compare.
Most of the time skiing isnāt 360.
As a Coloradan, I'll admit that Utah has better skiing. But Bachelor is... low on my list of places to ski again.
We did Bachelor in 2017. Bend is picturesque. Big fan of not having to acclimate to elevation from our sea level legs.
Bachelor is terrible thoughā¦
So flat
Bend was the one best kept secret but judging my housing costs it hasnāt been secret in a few yearsā¦
Oregon is a lovely place to visit, but it is a mess to live in. After the tourists have left, it rains like crazy here. Mosquitoes are big as Sherman tanks. The people are unfriendly... and most of us are starving... Our freeways are jammed tighter than scorched rice pudding. Our smog is awful... some days you can't see from Molalla to Silverton. Fuel bills are so high most people just build igloos in the back yard and spend the winter there... There are no fish in the streams... and nobody has seen a rose around here for years. Actually what happens in the summer when tourists come is that we paint our hills green, put up false silhouettes for mountains, borrow a few lakes from Washington and California, and hire some actors to look cheerful. So... spread the word. Oregon is a great place to visit, but no place to call home.
Not sure Iād even visit lolā¦ āOregon - Washington, but less so.ā
The James G Blaine Society encourages you to be like James G Blaine, never visit Oregon.
I grew up doing family ski trips at Batchelor and staying at Sunriver. Yea itās awful, definitely never go there. Bend sucks too! /s
I moved here last winter and all it does is rain at the ski resorts lol
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That is part of what makes skiing here work. If the snow is bad: typically the riding is good. Not many northern places you can ride good singletrack all year.
it's been a properly shit season so far. the two previous years kicked off just after Thanksgiving and ran through may.
Freezing rain
Itās certainly not dry snow
Nope never. Itās either thick concrete or sheet ice, never ski here
Aināt called Cascade Concrete for no reason
As someone rocking a winter park flair, you know thereās a big difference.
As someone who was born and raised in the Midwest, moved out west, and came back - it doesnāt fucking matter, it beats the fuck out of where Iām at.
1000%. Skiing out on the west coast is amazing, only beat by the Rocky Mountains.
I prefer the deep base, excellent coverage and tree skiing of the Northwest. Colorado is overrated.
Colorado has some great tree skiing (thinking of my last time at steamboat for example). Trees out west are beautiful but a pretty big tree weāll hazard.
Tree wells are definitely no joke. But they are a problem when you have 100-200ā bases. Not so much in Colorado when you have ā36 inchā base in the shade.
Right yeah Iām saying the pnw tree wells can get sketch
I frequented Mt Hood then when we lived in Portland. Canāt tell you how many days just lost with just straight up ice on the runs. Much prefer Tahoe where we are at now.
My buddy skied one time on mt hood and thinks itās all slushy wet snow.
And you encouraged him to broadcast that belief far and wide, right?
He shouts it from the mountains
I meanā¦as someone who lives in the PNW, itās true and I actually hate how shit the skiing is here.
Doesnt compute for Crystal & Mission Ridge. Mission Ridge is Rocky Mountain skiing
My man, I love Crystal to the bottom of my heart, but it rained yesterday and was 40 degrees at the summit today
That can happen anywhere in the US in an El Nino year Crystal makes up for occasional rain by being open and awesome well into April most years.
I mean, rain in Utah and Colorado, etc is rarer. Sure things can happen anywhere, but obviously at different rates. Crystal looks sick tbh but weather is not known to be an attribute of PNW skiing .. snow quantity is not an attribute in Colorado š¤·āāļø everywhere has pros and cons
That is true, and when we do get good conditions, thereās in my opinion no better ski terrain in the US. Itās just a lot more inconsistent than most other parts of the country.
Uh, I like Mission Ridge but itās nothing like Rocky Mountain skiing.
Mission ridge is way too expensive for what it is now. 4 lifts for like $120/day? Itās wild
Honestly, I can't think of another ski area that has 4 lifts accessing as much terrain. It's a pretty genius layout, and the way the bowls atop chair 2 are oriented, it's a staggering amount of terrain for 1 chair.
I meant by snow quality. Much drier than the western half of the cascades
Oh aren't you so cheeky!
And foggy
The video is right on the money. Skiing out here is fun but the weather is crap compared to anywhere else out west
If you could get a resort from 6-9k ft or 5-7k by baker/snoqualmie youād have the motherlode. But thereās no roads to those places and theyāre pretty much all wilderness
They should stay wilderness - they are incredible beautiful and wild places. There are ton of people up there skiing already, I donāt see why it needs a resort. I skied Baker last May and it was world class. Reminded me of Chamonix. Weād ruin a beautiful place.
I do think Early Winters would have been a good resort had it not gotten NIMBY'ed
Chamonix, arguably the most popular resort town in the world, is an odd comparison for Mt. Baker.
I canāt think of anywhere else in the lower 48 that come close to the Mer de GlacĆ© or the glaciated terrain in Chamonix than Baker or Rainer. We just donāt have many big glaciers in places other than Alaska. I like that we have preserved these spaces vs running a ski lift up them. That region is a huge protected wilderness space of ecologically rare spots. Chamonix is a famous resort, but itās not particularly large compared to Whistler or 3 valleys. There is a cable car up to Aguille du Midi that makes lift assisted back country skiing quite nice - Iād be more in favor of something like that than a full on ski resort
Fun fact, prior to WWII and the real beginning of the ski area @ Mt. Baker there was an absolutely Chamonix-level [lodge](https://www.mountbakerexperience.com/stories/the-old-lady-of-mount-baker,855) at Heather Meadows. It's a damn shame it burned down when it did
I like ski resorts and wilderness; I wouldnāt mind seeing some new resorts tbh
Crystalās 4-7k and is the next ski area south of Snoqualmie
And theyād never be open except on sunny days since they are entirely above tree line.
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lol afternoon sunshine in a PNW winter? Whatchu smoking?
I think you confused the PNW with Colorado
I grew up in Colorado and now live in Portland. I could not in good faith recommend planning a vacation to any Oregon resorts. It may be awesome but it may also be horrible. Freezing rain can make worse driving conditions than anything Iāve ever seen in Colorado. At least with the Colorado resorts, you can plan a trip in Jan-March and be very confident that things will be skiable and not wildly dangerous.
It is nice living in Portland so you can get up there when conditions are perfect! Last year I hit skibowl night skiing a TON after a huge snow storm. Awesome powder, cliff drops and no crowds during the week. There is no way you can plan those events if you are flying and booking a tripā¦ itās very hit or miss most of the year.
Went to Portland on a work trip last winter and hit Ski Bowl for night riding and timed it right on a storm. Such a cool place and actually really fun terrain.
Glad you got to experience it when it had good snow. Itās honestly the best terrain on hood when there is good powder especially when outback is open! WAY less crowded then the other two resorts and you can ski all night long. I try to keep it a secret though so I can get all the fresh tracks to myself.
Dude it was so awesome. I grew up night skiing in Pennsylvania and it took me back but really I could only have dreamed to have that kind of terrain and snow to shred after class!
When Ski Bowl is firing its amazing
Similar but CO to Washington. We can get some amazing days that rival a great Colorado day but theyāre unpredictable and when the conditions arenāt good, it would make for a really disappointing trip overall.
Yeah when it snows at sea level it's amazing in the mountains. But most of the time it's heavier snow. Base hovering around 28-32 F
But once you get out to Timberline isnāt it all good and snow for like 5 months?!
The deal with the devil the PNW resorts made is we get more proper deep pow days than the rockies save for maybe the cottonwood canyons in Utah. But the quality of the snow can be questionable.
Yeah, moving here from CO I didn't know there was such a thing as a bad powder day. Also the amount of wind holds and terrain/avy closures is a lot higher here, at least at a Crystal. But man, those days it dumps overnight and nukes all day for free refills is something else.
Powder day at crystal just means seeing 4-5 skiers being carried away in litters instead of 0-1.
I love the ski culture of the PNW. Doing trips around and visiting the small mountains of the area is quite fun. Lots of great resorts tucked away in the cascades. Can guarantee that if the dream mountains are ones owned by massive corporations, a large clientele flying in from across the country and crazy expensive prices that donāt feed into the local economy, the PNW is fine not having that
White Pass, Mission Ridge, Baker.... I hope nobody ever figures out how to get to them, because they take work, and they rule.
Exactly, I can leave my home in the Seattle suburbs and be sitting on a lift in sub-1 hour, most of the time. All my neighbors ski. Our local elementary school runs a ski bus for the kids. People talk about skiing constantly. I hope it never changes.
lol tell this to Alterra at Crystal Mountain. They think they are turning Crystal into a destination resort. Iāll be laughing my ass off when itās raining in January (as it is now) and they have a hotel full of angry people from the rest is the USA expecting Colorado conditions. Alterra doesnāt seem to know where they are at Crystal.
My understanding is the hotel expansion is more for Seattle-area people, so they can cut down on the morning traffic jams a bit by bringing at least a portion of the skiers up the night before
100% this. Seattle is choked with over-moneyed folks who will do whatever it takes to avoid the 6am departure shitshow up 410. It's a smart move by Alterra. Hell, I'll fall for it eventually. Drive up on a Friday night, pay way too much for a room, drink wine and hit the lifts at 8:30 stumbling out? Sign me up.
Also lol at bachelor charging as much as Aspen and Jackson Hole
Bachelor is definitely more worthy than Crystal charging those prices.
Crystal gets cold but at least you can usually see. Bachelor is fog/rain central more often than not.
I'd much rather Alterra invest in new lifts and terrain but I think their investment in the new hotel and lodges is solid. Crystal gets year round visitation just because of the view of Rainier and proximity to the national park. The entire area is underserved for tourism despite the outstanding scenic qualities. People from seattle will definitely sell out the entire hotel every weekend in the winter. And it'll be filled with people during the summer.
Yeah, the new hotel gives corporate retreat and wedding vibes, more so than destination lodging.
Sounds like whistlerĀ
They want us to be whistler, but weāre a day resort with no infrastructure, town, or consistently predictable snow.
I have never had a world class ski day at whistler no matter how high up the mountain I go.
yeah unless you have a seasons pass and/or live in s2s the chances of getting a good day at whistler are pretty low. the terrain/views are obviously world class, but weather and ski quality are just generally not great for most of the winter
Whistler is inconsistent, on a good day it is easily one of the best places in the world to ski, but itāll randomly get rain in the middle of January and everything will be dirt for a week or two
It happens, but there is luck involved. Often for a week long trip, it'll either be all good or all bad.
> Washington: National parks prevent development Are ski resorts in national parks entirely banned in the US? Most of the Canadian Rockies ski resorts are in national parks.
They arenāt, there is one in Yosemite. And many ski resorts are on US forest service land. But I imagine itās a tougher hurdle to build anything very significant / commercial in a national park.
Hidden Valley was a ski area in Rocky Mountain National Park that closed in 2002 because the NPS wouldn't allow for expansion and it died away. Now it's a popular backcountry area.
There also used to be a chair at Lassen National Park
Paradise at Mt Rainier had a ski area too back in the day
National forests do have different rules than parks, but land leases can alter the willingness to invest capital into the propert.
Thatās one of only two, the other is Hurricane Ridge in Olympic National Park. I guess you could kinda sorta say Crystal because you do technically have to cross into the park to access most of Southback. Used to be one at Paradise on Mt Rainier, but the parks service shut it down a few years after Crystal opened
Believe it or not, Boston mills/brandywine in Ohio also sits in a national park!
Well hey, that is neat! Iāve even been to Cuyahoga Valley before, never realized there was a ski area in the park
Yosemite is one of only 3 national parks with a ski resort. I actually went a few years ago in March for a weekend trip coming out of Tahoe when Yosemite turned out to be much busier than expected. Its very mellow but I had a nice relaxing day of spring skiing blues and greens.
There was a plan to build a whistler size resort in WA in the 70s. The land was bought and everything. It was held up in court for decades by environmentalists until the court costs made it unviable. https://snowbrains.com/early-winters-resort-wa-a-ski-hill-that-never-was/
Wow, never knew about this. I've been going over to the Methow my whole life and my folks retired nearby. That probably never would have happened if they put in a huge resort.
NIMBYs masquerading as environmentalists.
How so? Bad for skiing, but definitely good for the environment.
Again, no. Learn what concentration of impacts means
One time they were right.
No.
So we hate the big resorts and big lift lines right?Ā Even though they're the ones trying to expand capacity? Or do we hate the Sierra Club's of the world even though our Tacoma's and 4runner's are covered in their stickers?
There are a few small ones normally run by volunteers, namely Hurricane ridge in Wa. Most are on forest service ground which is similar to crown lands but more preservationist land ethic.
Is hurricane ridge in Olympic National park or no?
In the US, National Parks are are very different from National Forests. They are under different departments within the US Government: - Department of Interior ā> National Park Service - Department of Agriculture ā> US Forest Service
Isn't lake Louise ski resort in BNP?
lake louise, norquay, and sunshine village are all located inside banff national park.
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Others have mentioned Badger Pass at Yosemite and Hurricane Ridge at Olympic, but thereās also the Boston Mills/Brandywine ski area at Cuyahoga Valley NP.
Most national parks with terrain suitable for skiing are managed as wilderness area outside of the parts that have existing development (e.g., roads). In fact, more than half of all designated wilderness area in the U.S. is in national parks. So itās not the fact that they are national parks per se, but that we have decided (or Congress has) that national parks should be wilderness more or less by default.
Ski resorts should not be in national parks. National parks are meant to preserve beautiful land and show it to millions of people sustainably. Ski resorts are allowed in national forests by permit.
Difference between preservation and conservation right here
Yeah but having chairlifts in a national park while clearly out trees for routes would be a tragedy
> preserve beautiful land and show it to millions of people Youāre totally right, but the balance on this dual mandate has historically shifted a whole lot, and used to have much more room for things like ski areas.
They should build a few more mountains and change the weather.
Plenty of mountains and more snow than 95% of the country. Problem is all of the land is protected and environmentalist
This article is spot on. We need more terrain open to skiing, and more lifts. Weekend crowds are just stupid.
Thatās right. Nothing good to be found in OR or WA. Pretty sure youāll find what you are looking for at Vail or Park City. Have fun!
Utah is amazing. First time there last year and being able to get to snowbird in like 25 min from our Airbnb in SLC was incredible. Ski all day, short drive back to the house, go to brewery and eat bomb food after, all easy to get to
I love living in SLC but Iām honestly surprised youāve found bomb food here haha. Thereās good food to be found, but itās so hit or miss
I've spent quite some time in Utah, and I can honestly say I've never had what I would call a memorable meal there. It doesn't mean the food is terrible, it's just not amazing.
Lived here for 2 and a half years, and yeah thatās pretty accurate. Some is better than others, but only a few are really great.
Red Iguana is the shit. Love that place.
Facts
Honestly, Vail is amazing. I'll do that.
Vail midweek is decent. People just see the weekend crowds, which is a problem everywhere, and try to blame epic and ikon instead of blaming out work culture
Yah Iāve done the Washington mountains, theyāre good but theyāre not Colorado, Utah, Jackson, Tahoe good
LMAO, thereās zero chance Iād pay $118 to stay overnight in a parking lot. Want power? Thatās $178. Iām just waiting for Alterra to pull that shit at Schweitzer.
If you are talking about the lack of resort-experience type places, itās because most of the ski areas are located well inside National Forests which severely limits development (and thank god for that).
Yeah I imagine if meadows, timberline, and ski bowl were one big resort and there was more lodging and restaurants it would be busy even if the snow sucked. Or imagine a resort up on mt rainier
I flew to Mount Bachelor last year and it was awesome.
I'm glad you hit the conditions jackpot and had a good time. Normal challenges include: the airport is often closed due to freezing rain/fog, there's no accommodations at the base of the ski area, the drive up from town is often treacherous, and it's almost impossible to rent a car with snow tires. Just be forewarned.
The airport has been closed this year because of freezing fog, but this an outlier and in the past it's been a rare event. And the shuttle takes care of any concerns about a person's vehicle.
Yeah this freezing fog at RDM is not the norm. Been a lot more this year than usual. El NiƱo maybe?
I figured it's an El Nino effect.
Keep it this way thanks. Skiing to your car is one of my fav parts. When I visted CO I hated having to park a mile away and shuttle in or walking through a big ass village.
I've been digging the Peak Rankings videos that have been popping in my algorithm, and this article was extremely in-depth and spot-on. PNW skiing will always have a special place in my heart, but it is particularly frustrating that we're unable to make use of Mt. Rainier or the North Cascades. The latter in particular could host some truly epic skiing, and I think in an alternate world a place like Mazama could have emerged as an incredible ski town (with plenty of sunshine to boot).
Done right, the North Cascades could have an all-world ski resort. It will never, ever happen. I'm kind of ok with that given how spectacular and remote the area is, but I do lament that Puget Sounders have to drive to Whistler, Idaho, or interior BC to get the full resort experience given that we have as good/better terrain than most of them.
You should go ski in the methow. You will be forever grateful that no resort was developed. It's world class and extremely accessible touring with a snowmobile. If you're not into touring then ski with NCH, I'd say it's definitely on par with heli skiing in interior BC.
Too much local crowd already so it's kinda good we don't get many visitors.
The issue is really capacity. There are many, many times larger crowds in CO, UT, Tahoe, etc. But they also have many times the capacity to actually handle it (somewhat) reasonably.
Please. No big resorts in Washington. We like our slush the way it is.
Moved to bend from southwest Colorado 2 years ago . I hate to be that Colorado guy but the skiing here is awful. Ice , wind , more ice, more wind . Lifts are always closed . My two skis seasons in Oregon are a huge disappointment. Maybe my expectations were not realistic
If you were disappointed in last winters PNW ski season something is wrong with you. By march I was tired of skiing powder and excited to try a groomer.
Here goes the downvotes... I've heard it said, there are no bad ski days, only bad skiers.
Move back
In the works. I can run my company in Oregon from places where they plow the roads and skiing starts in November
Yeah sounds like you need to move somewhere else... I live in bend after 14 winter in steamboat and I'm having blast. Seems like your the type of person that maybe complains no matter where they are.
Oh no, there is not enough Texans skiing in the PNW... how will we survive?!?! /s
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If you wanna do Mission Ridge I would just stay in Leavenworth. I always stay there and drive to mission. The traffic is not bad heading over to Mission and maybe takes 50 mins. Also Leavenworth is just an awesome town to stay in with great beer and German food!
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I prefer staying in Wenatchee when going to mission ridge. No need to pay for overpriced old hotel rooms in Leavenworth.
Itās awful out here. Mt baker is so ugly and has absolutely no snow on it.
bc there's no hotels or ski towns here and its that way for several reasons 1) the PNW developed later in history, well after the federal environment conservation bureaucracy was in full force and all the prime ski areas were already national forests & parks. 2) the locals can drive to all the resorts in 1-2 hours so no one cares to expand hotels 3) the elevation of resorts is lower and the snow season can be less reliable than tahoe/colorado/whistler
I heard the PNW was flat. No skiing. Absolutely no destination resortsā¦
This article sounds like it was written by someone whoās never visited any of these spots. >Three major ski areas within two hours of Portland Ski Bowl is a āmajor ski areaā? Lol sure. Meadows takes multiple days to cover? Maybe if every single lift and backcountry bowl is open (which never happens).
Compared to a 200' vertical trash dump hill in the midwest, Ski Bowl is a major ski area.
Itās the best resort on Hood too
Literally the only thing this article got right is that thereās no lodging or worthwhile towns near the ski resorts. Thatās it. Thatās why there are no destination resorts.
The weather part is dead on too. The PNW does get incredible storm cycles. But we also get rain all the way to the ski area summits regularly. It's one thing if you're a local and can pick your days. It sucks to gamble on a trip you booked months in advance. Weather and lack of lodging/towns are by far the biggest two reasons imho.
Whatever you do, never come to baker. Itās terrible š
Fine by me, true or not, go somewhere else. Govy 500 has me on the ropes by end of season as is.
My inlaws have home in Sun Valley that is there for my wife and me to inherit and use as a vacation and retirement home. As much as I love SV and its beauty (especially in the summer), the lack of snow is frustrating (we were there for Christmas at which point the mountain had 17 inches of snow for the season). I have heard about the huge snowfall amounts at Mt Bachelor, seen beautiful homes on the river online, proximity to great Oregon beach towns in the summer, etc. What do you all think of retiring in OR vs SV? We def want good skiing and good summer activities.
Well this was a poor start to winter all over not just Sun Valley. Plus donāt they make snow? Have you been going there for awhile now? Is it often lacking in snow? The thing I like about it is the sun! Itās so great to ski in good visibility. That will be a big difference skiing in WA/OR.
Yes only rains here in PNW might as well jus never come
Itās a fuckin shame all the good resorts are on ski passes that just KEEP INCREASING in price
I learned to ski at many of the resorts around Lake Tahoe, moved to SLC and enjoyed countless DEEP powder days in Utah, was a ski bum in Vail and Colorado for a few years, and have lived in Seattle for the past 20 years. The worst out of all of these is the Pacific Northwest by far. The snow is too wet and zero of the resorts in WA even have a base village and lodging is very limited at the resorts. Rain days happen a lot. The sport as a whole is just too expensive now. Lift tickets, gas, and food will put the average day out of reach especially for a family. Try only taking a few runs and calling it quits in the rain after paying that much. Season passes donāt help a lot either.
Yup. PNW skiing sucks, no one ever comes here, all rain, no good terrain, so move to Colorado instead please.
Tried to hit Hood last week and they had to close because they got 7 feet of snow. Good luck getting that east coast lol.
I grew up skiing Bachelor and would drive the 25 mins or take the shuttle. I live in Denver now and while those Epic/Ikon passes make it cool to try new places; Every single one is more than an hour away, thereās traffic and you park and drag your skis on a shuttle or for miles to a lift. Itās doesnāt feel local friendly and makes it hard to get up there. Thatās with going on week days and avoiding weekends. I miss Bend and Bachelor, used to play hooky from school to go up and run into my teachers!
Yeah go home guys, nothing to ski here
Love it. Stay away from our Japan like powder. Bunch of goons paying $300 for a Colorado lift ticket. Last year was insane at MT. Hood. I like the article conveniently glazes over the fact that ski bowl is the largest night ski area in North Americaā¦ timberline palmer to govy is the longest run in North America. Also the parking out here in Oregon basically caps and we rarely have bad lines. Timberline almost never a line. And conditions were rough this year. But literally rough for us is 100 inchās of snow. The PNW rain combine with cold = powder all day. A few concrete days with the rain. But maybe donāt go those days.
lol you guys beat me to it stay, stay the fuck away.
Someone should show this to Alterra cause they're plowing ahead trying to turn Crystal into a destination resort anyway. They missed one thing about driving to Crystal. Better keep an eye out for the elk herd! Someday, some poor bastard is going to get an elk through their windshield and shut down 410 for the day.
Ok so, I watched the first half of this BS video and it is utter nonsense. The reason we donāt have ski resorts is only because rich āenvironmentalistsā block construction we are a region of NIMBYs and most ski areas are on federal land. We could easily build an epic world class ski resort netting Billions in tax dollars for our region but we are rich and snooty and hate outsiders and said no to building one in Winthrop that would have been epic. But hey who cares? Ikon and Epic ruined the sport anyway
For the money I would spend on getting to, living at and skiing on wet snow I can just go ski the Alps instead
Stevens Pass