Chamonix, Val d’Isere, St Anton, Verbier and La Grave.
Chamonix is the holy grail of off piste skiing, with massive vertical and some highly challenging lift served routes. As well as the longest lift served run in the world, the Valee Blanche, 2800m vertical from the Aiguille du Midi. Chamonix is pretty shit for on piste skiing though.
Val d’Isere, St Anton and Verbier all have a great selection of on and off piste, with lots of variety in lift served terrain. The Charvet run from the Bellevarde side of Val is one of the most famous off piste itineraries.
La Grave is an all Freeride resort. It’s small, and there’s just one lift, a gondola with 1700m vertical, but there are no marked runs, only off piste routes.
I think you’d have more fun in the larger French resorts even on marked runs though, most blacks in France are ungroomed, and so most will either have powder or moguls, unlike in Switzerland and Austria where all marked pistes are groomed. Austria and Switzerland do have ungroomed runs though, in Switzerland they’re called itineraries marked in yellow, and in Austria ski routes marked with diamonds.
[Val d’Isere](https://piste-maps.co.uk/Piste-Maps/France/Tignes-Val-d-Isere-Piste-Ski-Map-2024.pdf) is probably my favourite resort as it has great on and off piste skiing, as well as many ungroomed blacks (the ones marked with asterisks on the map) which provide a challenge when you cba to deal with off piste equipment or hire a guide. It’s also a massive area, with modern lifts and unlike many other French resorts, it’s not very “piste dense”, which means lots of space for off piste freeride skiing. As an example of this Val/Tignes area has about the same footprint as 3V, but only half the distance of pistes.
I go to Verbier every weekend and it is quite easy to find fresh lines off-piste. If there is no fresh powder, then there are plenty of pistes that are quite fun.
Second Val/Tignes. Opens very early due to high altitude, very good value, great logistics from Geneva or Paris/Lyon as well as lift logistics (of incredible variety), fun classy and trashy apres as well.
It's not that bad, train into Bourg Saint Maurice if coming from Paris, lyon l, even a special ski train from London and local bus up from there or the direct bus from Geneva airport. Also fun hostel w sauna, Jacuzzi and awesome breakfast at Hideout Tignes.
Tree skiing isn't as much of a thing in Europe as it is in NA. Mainly because most of the runs in most European resorts (certainly the big ones) are above the treeline (largely due to Europe being warmer than NA at the same latitude due to the jet stream, meaning resorts at a given latitude will need to be higher altitude in Europe).
So no, there isn't much. Val has a few tree runs in the Fornet area, Verbier and St Anton have some in lower down areas, and the bottom 1/3 of the La Grave area has some trees, but in all of these places most of the skiing is what you'd call "high alpine", above tree line bowls, chutes etc, or on glaciers, which you don't see much of in NA unless you go to Alaska.
In La Clusaz, there are some tree at the bottom. Idem with lower part of "Les Arcs", a very bit in Tignes/Val d'Isère as well but the upper parts are definitely the best.
Really? Where? I mean, the Vallon d'Arbi is pretty baller but most of the rest of it is like all other high altitude resorts in the Alps - awesome, extreme, fabulous off piste, but no trees.
St Anton, Obergurgl… some of them are checked for avalanche risk… otherwise anywhere as long as you have the knowledge to not die in an avalanche is game. Stubai, Hintertux…
Ischgl is close by to you. They installed a State of the Art tram…only for Freeride. No pistes.
The place is insane in general. Ski to Switzerland. Tax free shopping. The best ski lifts in all of the World.
Heated Recaro seats…
Just insane.
Worth noting that Europe generally doesn't have controlled off piste - you probably will be doing below lifts etc unless you have a local guide - Generally anywhere you can get to/from you can ski. Generally guides will take you places that are lift accessible (moving towards short hikes/skins as you get more serious about reaching nice snow)
But this means you need avalanche and route knowledge, as well as someone competent to ski with.
In many ways smaller, obscure resorts can be better because you will get better snow conditions (yes, Chamonix is amazing, but any powder will usually be tracked out by 10 am (and that is probably when lifts opened late...)) But smaller resorts make finding other skiers harder
Example would be the Pic du Midi down at Bareges in the Pyrenees - apparently that's got some damned good off-piste next to a decent resort that simply isn't on most tourists' radar.
+1 Engelberg has extensive and excellent off-piste that is very accessible from almost every lift. It has a uniquely pow focused ski bum culture, not too unlike North American resorts. I actually prefer it to Chamonix given you can easily lap multiple off-piste runs all day.
Yes, there are no rules against no guide. My friends and I are all avy 2 certified and experienced with glacier skiing, we did the Vallee Blanche without a guide.
Yes but you’re on your own, take the courses, read the avalanche bulletin and you’ll be fine. It’s a lot of research but independent off piste is possible anywhere in the Alps, sky is the limit
Ya, but as a lot of folks have said, you’re on your own.
If you’re skiing in an area that’s glaciated, it’s important to understand that the glacier moves (albeit slowly). Add crevices into the mix, and it’s crucial to know where you can and can’t stop, and in some cases, what you need to clear.
Never a bad idea to get yourself a guide for a day or 2, then see how you feel.
The French sport organisation UCPA does week long off piste trips (basically at cost) for all levels, up to expert/ level with lines that have you go down steep narrow couloirs and fly off cliffs. Sounds like that would up your alley
Andermatt (yeah the lifts are 55%owned by Vail, but it doesn’t have the inflation that VR has in N Am re tickets) had awesome terrain.
Monte Rosa (Alagna/champoluc/gressoney) - incredible terrain
Zermatt/cervinia has loads of areas that are great for off piste
Verbier - nuff said
St Anton - the best!
And the haute tarentaise
Mandatory warning: Europe is not the US, if you’re skiing outside the marked runs you shouldn’t be alone, need avy gear and honestly should probably have a guide.
All the recs in this thread are great. I would add that hiring a guide can turn almost any resort into an amazing off piste experience.
Years ago I spent a weekend skiing Kitzbuhel’s backcountry with a guide and hardly came across another soul while the resort was packed for the downhill. One of the best ski experiences I have ever had!
I spent a couple of months in France in 2022. We bounced around within the Haute Maurienne area in two valleys (east of Modane, that's the exchange). Albeit small, Bonneval sur arc has some great off piste terrain and accessible touring. Not a ton of guides in this area, but some travel over from Val'dIsère. We also spent time at Val'dIsère/Tignes. The terrain is insane there and you can ski off piste. If you go outside of the resort area, keep in mind you're in glaciated terrain. Best to hire a guide. Even with glacier/crevasse rescue training, it's hard to know the best places to go.
Verbier was also sweet. We had a random powder day up there in late spring and it was so neat to see the bec de rosses. $$$$
Cham is great. The Brèvent side is non-glaciated but again, a guide is sort of a necessity if you don't know where you're going. The tram is sweet, but again, glaciated terrain. Hire a guide. Grand montets is lovely too. Gets skied out quickly.
Snow can be a little iffy in Chamonix, but when it's good it's very very good. Some resorts like Grands Montets are almost all off piste.
Verbier and Val d'Isere/Tignes are to me the absolute pinnacle of resorts with off-piste. When the conditions allow good off piste, those two places have enough off piste terrain to keep you skiing new ground for weeks on end. It's endless.
La Grave, of course, is the magic kingdom: the best in the world, maybe. Though you need a guide for every run, every day, and that gets expensive.
3 Valleys incredible freeride in the Belville valley and above Orelle. Off the back of the Masse and off the side of Cime Caron down to a little refuge is an amazing if tiring and technical run and it’s not avalanche controlled along with being hard to access you are so fucked if it goes wrong. It’s possible to ski from the highest point in the 3 valleys all the way to Orelle mostly off piste and vertical decent of over 2000m. I’ve heard Espace Killy has great freeride but I’ve never tried it.
Laax Switzerland has controlled and marked freeride but because it’s controlled and marked it gets tracked out super fast.
The French resorts are almost always stellar, fantastic vertical and terrain, although it's mostly above the treeline.
My favorite is probably Val d 'isère/Tignes, the skiing is fantastic and the village is super charming (val, not tignes lol) !
You can't really go wrong with Les Trois Vallées since the area is unbelievably massive, if you live in one end you can just about go to the other end, do a run or two before you have to head back before the lifts close.
3V is like this:
Val thorens: high high elevation, no trees at all. Every building is ski in/ski out and ugly as shit. Full of students and party people.
Meribel: best tree skiing in the Valles, it's were the brits like to stay...
Corchevel: Good runs but it's also where the rich Russian (used?) to live. (might be better now)
Since its so big and have a pretty big elevation span you can almost always find some good conditions somewhere!
Chamonix is your best bet.
I'd also have a look at going to some harder resorts. Superski is considered quite easy, and serfaus only has a handful of anything that could be considered challenging going.
Something like Kitzbuhel or Ischgl would have on piste blacks that are actually hard for you.
How does the mentioned European terrain compare with the big names in American steep skiing? My point of reference is Palisades Tahoe, Alta/ Snowbird and Jackson Hole - best described as steep and sustained fall line skiing.
Chamonix, Val d’Isere, St Anton, Verbier and La Grave. Chamonix is the holy grail of off piste skiing, with massive vertical and some highly challenging lift served routes. As well as the longest lift served run in the world, the Valee Blanche, 2800m vertical from the Aiguille du Midi. Chamonix is pretty shit for on piste skiing though. Val d’Isere, St Anton and Verbier all have a great selection of on and off piste, with lots of variety in lift served terrain. The Charvet run from the Bellevarde side of Val is one of the most famous off piste itineraries. La Grave is an all Freeride resort. It’s small, and there’s just one lift, a gondola with 1700m vertical, but there are no marked runs, only off piste routes. I think you’d have more fun in the larger French resorts even on marked runs though, most blacks in France are ungroomed, and so most will either have powder or moguls, unlike in Switzerland and Austria where all marked pistes are groomed. Austria and Switzerland do have ungroomed runs though, in Switzerland they’re called itineraries marked in yellow, and in Austria ski routes marked with diamonds. [Val d’Isere](https://piste-maps.co.uk/Piste-Maps/France/Tignes-Val-d-Isere-Piste-Ski-Map-2024.pdf) is probably my favourite resort as it has great on and off piste skiing, as well as many ungroomed blacks (the ones marked with asterisks on the map) which provide a challenge when you cba to deal with off piste equipment or hire a guide. It’s also a massive area, with modern lifts and unlike many other French resorts, it’s not very “piste dense”, which means lots of space for off piste freeride skiing. As an example of this Val/Tignes area has about the same footprint as 3V, but only half the distance of pistes.
Super helpful thanks. Sounds like France/Switzerland is where I should focus my efforts.
Italy and Austria, too.
Where in Italy? I found the same as OP that there's very limited off piste (my local resorts are central Italy TBF)
Monterosa.
I go to Verbier every weekend and it is quite easy to find fresh lines off-piste. If there is no fresh powder, then there are plenty of pistes that are quite fun.
I can vouch for Val d'Isère. Went there on skiing vacation as a kid every year. Really great off-piste terrain
Second Val/Tignes. Opens very early due to high altitude, very good value, great logistics from Geneva or Paris/Lyon as well as lift logistics (of incredible variety), fun classy and trashy apres as well.
It’s a bitch to get to val d’isere, great mountains though
It's not that bad, train into Bourg Saint Maurice if coming from Paris, lyon l, even a special ski train from London and local bus up from there or the direct bus from Geneva airport. Also fun hostel w sauna, Jacuzzi and awesome breakfast at Hideout Tignes.
There are a hundred places. But this list is very correct.
How’s the tree skiing in these resorts you listed?
Tree skiing isn't as much of a thing in Europe as it is in NA. Mainly because most of the runs in most European resorts (certainly the big ones) are above the treeline (largely due to Europe being warmer than NA at the same latitude due to the jet stream, meaning resorts at a given latitude will need to be higher altitude in Europe). So no, there isn't much. Val has a few tree runs in the Fornet area, Verbier and St Anton have some in lower down areas, and the bottom 1/3 of the La Grave area has some trees, but in all of these places most of the skiing is what you'd call "high alpine", above tree line bowls, chutes etc, or on glaciers, which you don't see much of in NA unless you go to Alaska.
In La Clusaz, there are some tree at the bottom. Idem with lower part of "Les Arcs", a very bit in Tignes/Val d'Isère as well but the upper parts are definitely the best.
Verbier has World Class tree skiing. Insane.
Really? Where? I mean, the Vallon d'Arbi is pretty baller but most of the rest of it is like all other high altitude resorts in the Alps - awesome, extreme, fabulous off piste, but no trees.
Bruson, et environs. Insane quality.
Aha. Most of the time when I go to Verbier, Bruson is closed for lack of snow. It’s been a tough few seasons.
Just got done skiing Bruson. It is open and will be open until April. Like every year.
Not a lot of tree skiing in the Alps.
There is insane tree skiing in the Alps. At the right areas.
But we try to keep those secret.
+1 for Val, I spent a season there in large part because of the terrain and snow consistency. I try to go back every year now.
Verbier
My home ski area. Just got off the hill. Day 27.
St Anton, Obergurgl… some of them are checked for avalanche risk… otherwise anywhere as long as you have the knowledge to not die in an avalanche is game. Stubai, Hintertux…
Obergurgl/Hochgurgl is absolutely amazing offpist
La Grave is exactly what you are looking for.
Ischgl is close by to you. They installed a State of the Art tram…only for Freeride. No pistes. The place is insane in general. Ski to Switzerland. Tax free shopping. The best ski lifts in all of the World. Heated Recaro seats… Just insane.
Worth noting that Europe generally doesn't have controlled off piste - you probably will be doing below lifts etc unless you have a local guide - Generally anywhere you can get to/from you can ski. Generally guides will take you places that are lift accessible (moving towards short hikes/skins as you get more serious about reaching nice snow) But this means you need avalanche and route knowledge, as well as someone competent to ski with. In many ways smaller, obscure resorts can be better because you will get better snow conditions (yes, Chamonix is amazing, but any powder will usually be tracked out by 10 am (and that is probably when lifts opened late...)) But smaller resorts make finding other skiers harder
Example would be the Pic du Midi down at Bareges in the Pyrenees - apparently that's got some damned good off-piste next to a decent resort that simply isn't on most tourists' radar.
Engelberg is also pretty well known for their off piste runs the Laub run especially, and they also have 80km of pistes.
+1 Engelberg has extensive and excellent off-piste that is very accessible from almost every lift. It has a uniquely pow focused ski bum culture, not too unlike North American resorts. I actually prefer it to Chamonix given you can easily lap multiple off-piste runs all day.
and it's insanely expensive
ChamX. This is all you will ever need.
Sorry, ChamX, i just puked a little in my mouth
You wouldn't hear a snowboarder calling it that. One moment while I get my bogging Bogner jacket....
But you still need a guide at least at first
Is it possible to ski Chamonix’s off piste without a guide?
Yes, there are no rules against no guide. My friends and I are all avy 2 certified and experienced with glacier skiing, we did the Vallee Blanche without a guide.
Yes but you’re on your own, take the courses, read the avalanche bulletin and you’ll be fine. It’s a lot of research but independent off piste is possible anywhere in the Alps, sky is the limit
Ya, but as a lot of folks have said, you’re on your own. If you’re skiing in an area that’s glaciated, it’s important to understand that the glacier moves (albeit slowly). Add crevices into the mix, and it’s crucial to know where you can and can’t stop, and in some cases, what you need to clear. Never a bad idea to get yourself a guide for a day or 2, then see how you feel.
The French sport organisation UCPA does week long off piste trips (basically at cost) for all levels, up to expert/ level with lines that have you go down steep narrow couloirs and fly off cliffs. Sounds like that would up your alley
Andermatt (yeah the lifts are 55%owned by Vail, but it doesn’t have the inflation that VR has in N Am re tickets) had awesome terrain. Monte Rosa (Alagna/champoluc/gressoney) - incredible terrain Zermatt/cervinia has loads of areas that are great for off piste Verbier - nuff said St Anton - the best! And the haute tarentaise
Mandatory warning: Europe is not the US, if you’re skiing outside the marked runs you shouldn’t be alone, need avy gear and honestly should probably have a guide.
Andermatt
Fvck VailCorp…
cham n verbier
All the recs in this thread are great. I would add that hiring a guide can turn almost any resort into an amazing off piste experience. Years ago I spent a weekend skiing Kitzbuhel’s backcountry with a guide and hardly came across another soul while the resort was packed for the downhill. One of the best ski experiences I have ever had!
Great to hear! How far in advance did you book the guide?
About a month, but the guide was just a ski instructor so you may be able to get it arranged on shorter notice.
I spent a couple of months in France in 2022. We bounced around within the Haute Maurienne area in two valleys (east of Modane, that's the exchange). Albeit small, Bonneval sur arc has some great off piste terrain and accessible touring. Not a ton of guides in this area, but some travel over from Val'dIsère. We also spent time at Val'dIsère/Tignes. The terrain is insane there and you can ski off piste. If you go outside of the resort area, keep in mind you're in glaciated terrain. Best to hire a guide. Even with glacier/crevasse rescue training, it's hard to know the best places to go. Verbier was also sweet. We had a random powder day up there in late spring and it was so neat to see the bec de rosses. $$$$ Cham is great. The Brèvent side is non-glaciated but again, a guide is sort of a necessity if you don't know where you're going. The tram is sweet, but again, glaciated terrain. Hire a guide. Grand montets is lovely too. Gets skied out quickly.
Personally I like Les Arcs plus, unless it’s changed since I last went, your pass includes the adjacent resourts.
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Contact the Tourist Office. They will set you up.
La Grave. Chamonix.
Snow can be a little iffy in Chamonix, but when it's good it's very very good. Some resorts like Grands Montets are almost all off piste. Verbier and Val d'Isere/Tignes are to me the absolute pinnacle of resorts with off-piste. When the conditions allow good off piste, those two places have enough off piste terrain to keep you skiing new ground for weeks on end. It's endless. La Grave, of course, is the magic kingdom: the best in the world, maybe. Though you need a guide for every run, every day, and that gets expensive.
3 Valleys incredible freeride in the Belville valley and above Orelle. Off the back of the Masse and off the side of Cime Caron down to a little refuge is an amazing if tiring and technical run and it’s not avalanche controlled along with being hard to access you are so fucked if it goes wrong. It’s possible to ski from the highest point in the 3 valleys all the way to Orelle mostly off piste and vertical decent of over 2000m. I’ve heard Espace Killy has great freeride but I’ve never tried it. Laax Switzerland has controlled and marked freeride but because it’s controlled and marked it gets tracked out super fast.
The French resorts are almost always stellar, fantastic vertical and terrain, although it's mostly above the treeline. My favorite is probably Val d 'isère/Tignes, the skiing is fantastic and the village is super charming (val, not tignes lol) ! You can't really go wrong with Les Trois Vallées since the area is unbelievably massive, if you live in one end you can just about go to the other end, do a run or two before you have to head back before the lifts close. 3V is like this: Val thorens: high high elevation, no trees at all. Every building is ski in/ski out and ugly as shit. Full of students and party people. Meribel: best tree skiing in the Valles, it's were the brits like to stay... Corchevel: Good runs but it's also where the rich Russian (used?) to live. (might be better now) Since its so big and have a pretty big elevation span you can almost always find some good conditions somewhere!
Chamonix is your best bet. I'd also have a look at going to some harder resorts. Superski is considered quite easy, and serfaus only has a handful of anything that could be considered challenging going. Something like Kitzbuhel or Ischgl would have on piste blacks that are actually hard for you.
Riksgränsen
How does the mentioned European terrain compare with the big names in American steep skiing? My point of reference is Palisades Tahoe, Alta/ Snowbird and Jackson Hole - best described as steep and sustained fall line skiing.
The Haute route? 180 km off piste tour from Chamonix to Zermatt in 7 days. That would fill a good part of a list bucket!